An Elden Ring Time Travel Theory
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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Mind blowing fact i realised :
While watching vaati's new video about miquella
Is that we know all albinaurics were trying to find the haligtree
They travelled to the consecrated snowfield for that
But then...something happened...and when we reached there ..there were no albinaurics just misbegottens...and shit
Vaati never touches on this fact
But the reason why albinaurics never made it was because they were following miquella in their dreams....
And that was the path that was leading them however..those brain dead mfs
Were so into this dream walking that when mohg kidnapped miquella the pantheon just kept walking towards the mohgwyn palace and this is the reason we find so many of them there
Miquella really wanted to help them
So he charmed them to come to his safe haven in their dreams but himself got abducted and the brain dead albinaurics followed.
They then reached there and thought mogh was miquella's consort because it was infact the place miquella was.
And boy o boy... they started worshipping the lord of blood instead which is plain sad
We even see the followers of mohg (the enemies at rose church preaching to the red albinaurics making it more likely that they were swayed from their original path)
Wow I never thought about that. There are so many context clues like that for Miquella’s story.
One I just realized the other day was that he was probably given Radagons sword, the Golden Order Greatsword, before we find it in the cave of the forlorn. I always found it weird that some random misbegotten had it in a frozen cave that had seemingly nothing to do with radagon, but if you pay attention there’s a whole cave full of different misbegotten and a trail of Miquella’s flowers guiding you to the big guy.
@@Buff-Wings i hope this gets picked up...by...and expanded upon by some fellow lore youtuber
One thing I don’t understand is if that’s true than why do the first generation albinaurics never go there either because they aren’t in either location
@@godly_potatoe69xd19 there arent many of the first generation albinaurics left to begin with and most of them are in their spirit form...they cannot walk.
Whatever you see in ordina is an illusion created by someone so that the haligtree is inacessible
@@godly_potatoe69xd19 is it because their legs don't work and disappear over time? if I'm remembering right.. Also they're almost wiped out. So they probably couldn't make the journey
I think its less then time 'travel' and more about concurrent timelines playing out simultaneously. Vyke is busy being the protag in his story, while being the herald of frenzied flames in ours
Vyke could just be an alternate reality version of us, it could be that he is a representative of the frenzied flame ending.
"The flow of time is convoluted"
-Miyazaki every time he has to explain some bullshit
Actually Vyke's Cannon role depicts him as the man who didn't want to sacrifice his maiden on the M. of Giants so he too met the 3 fingers in a quest of power, but they touched him while his armor was on (you can actually see the fingertips on his armor) so he did not inherit the flame properly and grew mad and killed his own maiden in the Church of Inhibition where he invades us and we find his dead maiden and her blood needed for Vares quest completion.
Concurrent timelines playing out simultaneously is in fact time travel because there is sum point in certain timeline that reflects the past or the future of the lands between ...
@@GoulaLegamer if the timeline was split generations ago, the travel has already passed, and we are now looking at a multiversal situation.
Couple holes in this theory are
1. The roundtable hold we go to is explained as outside of time and space, so like a pocket dimension and it's based off the Lyndell hold that was used long ago. It is set on fire cause the Erdtree is creating the pocket space
2. Ranni's body has red hair all of raddagon's kids had red hair melena has light brown hair.
3. They are the only two characters that acknowledge torrent so it's not out of the question to say Torrent just has an amazing judge of character and that's well known.
4. Ranni literally says "oh I just used my teacher's name to test your metal" you had to seek her out to learn her true name.
But it's super interesting, I think Ranni and melena are half sisters not the same person
@@dynamicflashy those are portraits the artists might not have even seen rykard
I will say that 4 is technically addressed cause in the thought experiment the teacher of Ranni is Ranni as renna (stable time loop way), so saying Renna was her teacher's name but Renna is also Ranni means both statements are true (though again it does require time loop shenanigans thus is over complicated). The torrent one is case of yes Torrent is an amazing judge of character, but the key is not that Torrent is a good judge, but the fact that only those 2 know of and acknowledge the horse (even outside this theory imo this does point to Ranni and Melena being connected). 2 is odd but I've seen enough people say that Melana has pink hair (even the offical mini fig has pinkish hair), though its clear that her hair is not the same vibrant red of Radagon. For 1 you are correct, though since its a time is convoluted and Erdtree are connections to other time + dimensions it being a past version is still true. Though at the end the two characters are either half (or like 2/3 ?) sisters if we go as separate beings, but there is lot of these characters are connected and Elden ring has lots of unique pairs.
Miquella doesn't have red hair. He was platinum/white hair
Her hair looks Strawberry Blonde to me which would make her a redhead. I don't subscribe to this theory as I believe Melina was born of Radagon and Marika just as Malenia and Miquella were (hence the butterflies) but I am pretty sure Melina is a redhead all the same.
@@fabuloso4518 that's because he's not a child of raddagon and Renalla the full moon, those three siblings are all red haired in their younger years
I will say that Ranni did have a reason to rid herself of her empyrean flesh. Her mini doll form states that "i would not be controlled by that thing." Which means that empyreans are essentially just managers and the 2 fingers are CEO's that tell them what to do. The baleful shadows are the enforcers of the rules given to them, which is why one is sent to hunt us down on our way to the lake of rot. I think Renna is the name of Ranni's mentor, and probably had a tower alongside ranni's as she taught her cold sorceries. It makes sense that Rennala would let a gifted sorcerer teach her daughter, seeing that she herself would be too busy teaching at the academy and probably didnt have time to teach her daughter herself. Adula was probably a friend or pet of renna, who was left behind to protect ranni. Melina has a preference for incantations over sorcery so i do believe that her and ranni did come from the same being. Radagon's incants require a high amount of both faith and sorcery to use, so it isnt crazy to assume that those two attributes were maybe split into two seperate beings.
True, if I remember correctly, Rykard uses enchantations right? but wouldn't 2 different beigns mean Ranni and Melina aren't the same one? Its said a couple of times that Rennala and Radagon's children are Ranni, Rykard and Radhan, is never mentioned another child. And also, Ranni encountered Reena being a child and and took her as a mentor, and clearly Melina isnt a child, so that would mean she would have moon and cold sorceries and not enchantations at her age I think.
@@r.p.193 rykard's rancor is a sorcery, not an incantation
@@thehimagedidntfitinmypfp6562 You are completly right, my bad, and the other 3 Mount Gelmir spells are also sorceries. That makes even more clear the disconection between Melina and the Carian Royal Family .
Rennala likely had nothing to do with the one who taught Ranni, proof is in the description of the Snow Witch armor set itself, it states.: ‘Once worn by the snowy crone who the young Ranni encountered deep in the woods. She was a witch, and well versed in cold sorceries. It is said that the doll that houses Ranni's soul was modeled after her.
That old witch was Ranni's secret mentor.’
Regarding Ranni’s comment “I would not be controlled by that thing”. Plus also be taken to mean her split personality.
Regarding Baleful shadows, I believe these are versions of Blaidd from alternate realities that are trying to stop her from taking “the dark path”. She mentions this one is the last one ,I believe there are 6 one from each ‘age’ or alternate reality created by each different ending. I also believe Millicent and her sisters are alternate reality versions of Malenia, these make 6 of you count Malenia herself.
@PixelPerspective Millicent and her sisters are an attempt by gowry to create clones of Melina. He attempts to have them bloom them which is why Millicent takes out her unalloyed needle and circume to her condition of scarlet rot.
Ranni wants to be free from the control of the greater will. This is why she has her body destroyed and she has godwyns soul destroyed so that she would be free of the control of the greater will. In order to be completely free of the greater will over her she needs to destroy her two fingers as all empyreans are connected to. This is also why she's given the shadow blaidde because shadows are meant to protect them and make sure they follow the greater will.
I really feel like the secret of The Lands Between is right in the name. I think its cosmic bc the geology of the game feels like tectonic forces converging from multiple worlds into a schelling point for various species and outer gods. Marika and the Numen are literally described as being from another world.
when I first laid eyes on the Lands Between I also couldn't shake a certain feeling. that feeling was "I will never beat this game"
This is how I’ve perceived this universe as well. You explained it perfectly. “Tectonic forces converging” seems the most logical.
This is a cool idea! But I have sort of suspected that the “lands between” are in fact a sort of Mount Olympus or Asgard of whatever world Elden Ring takes place in.
This would explain why the “continent” is actually relatively small but has a wealth of culture variation. And each region is the dwelling place of one of the demigods. The more I think about this theory the more I am convinced by it.
The whole conflict of these demigod’s story is very similar to some of the civil wars that have taken place in mythologies past.
This would sort of explain the name “the lands between” as well. It is a location of reverence that is at the center of the world it rules.
The ancient war with the dragons parallels with the titans and ice giants as well!
are we sure that the lands between are actually that "small".
many open world games, be it based on real life locations or fantasy, often "compress" the world.
meaning, that in canon locations are further apart, and that games simply scale it down for the convenience of players..
I mean, look at the cinematic where we see Leyndell under siege. the size of the attacking army is way too big.
the lands between literally is not big enough to sustain such a enormous military/population.
and this is only one army we saw. then there all the other factions, with military power in a similar scale probably.
I think the lands between are bigger than what we have in the game. the size of the lands between can't realistically sustain such a big population, if the in-game map is truly what the "continent" looks like.
@@DatAsianGuy that is certainly possible. I have noticed a lot of games do that. Like Horizon 2 is like three US states wide but you can travel it in like an hour.
My thought is mostly influenced by the nature of the demigod characters and the lack of civilizations seen in the world. And the strange name of the lands between.
@@liljinjar1268 I mean we do know that there was civilization, there are ruins everywhere and many of them appear to be rather recent.
but I think what is interesting about the Lands Between is just... how did they feed their soldiers?
I don't think there is a single farm on the map. not even ruins or anything
I actually think that Renna was the name of the snow witch who Ranni takes on the visage of in her doll. Renna would just be an alias given their history.
Who Renna would be to Ranni beyond that, I don’t know. But I could see Melina being the younger version of Ranni.
Wait so ranni and Melina are the same person? But their eyes are opposites
Mirror images.
I have thought for a long time that The Lands Between are between dimensional time lines. The other tarnished spectral forms we see as we travel the lands are those found in other dimensions. Journey 2, 3 ,4 etc are our attempts to fix other dimensions.
Maybe Ranni is the part that is Radagon’s daughter, Renna is Rennala’s daughter, and Melina is Marika’s daughter.
I swear to god I had the exact same theory and called it "the fracture theory" I even started to write a script about it. About how reality is fractured from the point of the shattering of the elden ring. Creating alternate beings from one being and changing their history even.
Thats why there is so many twins and alternate egos. And 2 people in one. For example ranni has Melina, Morgott has Mohg, Marina has Radagon, Melania has Miqeulla, Gurranq with Maliketh, Darion with D, Miquellas alter ego st.Trina. it just keeps going.
That's why we have to mend the elden ring by killing every one to take their runes and mend the fracture. But this an impossible mountain to climb. The shattering broke time and reality itself and the only way to fix it is to acknowledge this fact and walk foward from this point instead of trying to fix it.
Holy shit I'm so surprised I wasn't alone in thinking like this. Love this channel and please keep surprising me! Mind is blown because you read my mind words for word. It's crazy.
So that may be why the standard ending calls the coming age the age of fracture, where things stay broken as they are. Meanwhile Ranni tries to fix it with time travel or something, the Frenzy Flame merges everything by burning it all.
@@SaHaRaSquad great points! The different endings are different solutions to the fracture. Another thing about the theory I thought about was Melina, I think she was born from the shattering of the elden ring. If my memory serves me right she says some thing to the effect she was born in the erd tree. A creation of the fracture and her end goal is to mend the elden ring so she can complete her life's mission given to her by her "mother". Because technically she was created by marika. That's why there's no info nor any mention of her through out the lands. She only lives in spirit form, that's why I believe she's a fracture of ranni who is the only one that's burned and bodyless.
Just another thought I had. I think I should compile everything and write in more detail. It just makes so much sense. Can't stop myself from finding details and connections that fits perfectly with the fracture theory.
It seems to me that no character really knows Melina exist. You make your accord with her and Varre *still* calls you maidenless (and if you go to the Hold before getting a great rune, he doesn't understand you _how_ did you get there). If she was a demigod (as this video and one from Vaati about Miquella both theorize), wouldn't there be _any_ trace of her existence known? A picture in a castle, a statue, a graveyard of swords from her destroyed army? Wouldn't Morgott be completely outraged to see her fight alongside you? Wouldn't she also have a throne in Leyndell? If she was a demigod, it would be a very odd notion for all the demigods to mutually agree to pretend she never existed while waging total war on each other.
Edit: I also really dislike the 'time is convoluted' cop-out that became common from Miyazaki's works. GRRM once stated in an interview that he was hired to write the lore, and that the game would take place about 5000 years after that, and that somewhat works better than 'timelines are mixed again oh no'.
If that timeframe was kept true by FROM, then you have 5000 years of total war between realms, which would explain the destroyed buildings, all the while no one truly dies (by the combined factors of: no Erdtree burials happen anymore, Godwyn's presence is slowly spreading and reviving corpses, and the rune of death kept away by Maliketh). The only thing that doesn't really work in that timeframe is the wounded Black Knife you find in Limgrave - has she been hurt and hiding for so long?
Shabriri knows she exists but never uses her name.
But as a spirit in service of the Flame of Frenzy so it makes sense he would know about a kindling maiden.
Varre might call you maidenless either because Melina is no real maiden, as she says herself,
or because he knows your what happened to your maiden.
Also remember the wanderung mausoleums with the unnamed soulless demigods inside.
I don't think them erasing the burnt girl from history is that far fetched, considering everyone calls specifically the burning of the tree as a cardinal sin.
If Melina was a demigod by herself Morgott would have named her together with the others. But still she says she was born in the Erdtree, meaning she has to be related to Marika in some way. Melina only exists as a spirit and Ranni is very aware of Melina's existence and actions as she immediately knows when you get Torrent from Melina. One gives you an item to summon a spirit horse for travel, the other an item to summon spirits in combat.
Not only are twin characters common in Elden Ring but the D brothers also have this weird double armor with two heads. Similarly Ranni has a doll body with all the limbs being doubled and a ghost face which is similar to Melina's. Though Melina never mentions Ranni and seems to have different goals leading to a different ending, and she seems to not be affected by Radahn halting Ranni's fate and not related to the moon.
Either way so many things fit here that Melina not being some alternate persona of Ranni would make no sense to me.
@@SaHaRaSquad id say the ghost face of ranni is just rannis spirit shown to be inhabiting the doll. But yeah, rannis spirit face is identical to melina
Morgott does try to murder both of you, to be fair. Seems pretty outraged to me.
@@onyxeyes734 It would be interesting to know what Melina means with "burned". Because her jumping into the forge as well as the Erdtree burning didn't yet happen at that point and she doesn't look burned like in the frenzied flame ending. So I guess the burning must have happened to her original body, which doesn't leave many possibilities unless it happened with a body that never appears in the game.
Also if Melina and Ranni were once one and the same person that would be a good indication that Radagon already was Marika at the time of his marriage to Rennala.
Too bad there's no more clear info.
I think Time is definitely at play, mentioned by NPCs and of course evidenced by Farum Azula. Either themes are repeating or at certain points we are actually watching the beginning and ending of plot lines while missing the middle (The Shattering War itself)
Very nice theory, but I do have to point something out about the Greatrunes. We already have Miquella's Greatrune, the Greatrune of the unborn, it has the exact same shape as Malenia's Greatrune just like how Morgott and Mohg who are siblings have the same shaped Greatrune and Radahn and Rykard same thing. It also fits very nicely with Miquella's theme of youth and rebirth (see the albernaurics in cocoons at the haligtree). And about Ranni's Greatrune, I would love to see it in DLC, but there are some evidence that it's plastered on the moon itself, look for three or four arcs connected by a line on the bottom left side of the moon, you should bve able to see it.
That's a great point about the Runes. I made the connections between Morgott-Mohg and Radahn-Rykard but somehow failed to notice the third one. But if it really does belong to Miquella originally, how did it end up being in the possession of Renalla?
@@Kalabrese119 especially considering Malenia and Miquella were born to Radagon and Malenia after their union and Radagon gave the rune to Rennala upon their divorce. But it is strange that Miquella's rune is nowhere to be found otherwise if it isn't the rune of rebirth.
I am pretty sure the runes are meant to be some kind of heirloom. And since Miquella turned his back on the Golden Order, he did not claim his Rune after the Shattering. Rennala might have had to give it up otherwise. Or it is what is missing for him to grow the Haligtree/in the Coccoon. Maybe we have to snitch it from Rennala in the DLC.
Radagon/Marika gave Rennala what belongs to Miquella to console her. With it she could delve into her hobby of the alchemy of life, it’s what you do after a breakup I guess. 😅
@@Kalabrese119 the great runes we're fought after and claimed not just given, I doubt miquella fought for one of his own.
My favorite part was when margit traveled forward in time to show off how much of a ninja turtle he used to be
this theory blow my mind totally Changing what I thought of this game TOTALLY! in way my eyes started tearing up
it's like I experienced the entire game for the first time again because all you did make sens
Okay, I had a little trouble following some of that, I will admit...
But to back up your point about the connection between minor Erdtrees and other worlds, it was immediately after the Shattering that the Erdtree sent its golden seeds "scattering across the various lands, as if life itself knew that its end has come." Maybe each seed created (or at least connected) a timeline, and scattering them was a defense mechanism to increase the chances that in at least one of these worlds, the Elden Ring could be reforged
Also, I like the idea that Melina's eye tattoo is a seal keeping a dark power locked up within her, like Destined Death is sealed inside Maliketh, except that she has no ability to release it even if she wants to. And only the Frenzied Flame with its power to break down all the divisions of the world can shatter the seal and give her access to her hidden power. If so, it would make sense that she is the only person in the world, other than the carrier of the Frenzied Flame, that can relight the forge of the giants. She has an equally powerful flame inside her as well
Time based theories can never be wrong in any medium and are always cheap in terms of lore not my personal taste.
If I had to pick three people in Ranni's general circle of associates to actually be the same person same person Marika/Radagon style I'd guess Ranni, Renna, and Rennalla. The way Ranni shows up during Renalla's fight without it impacting our relationship to Ranni is highly suspect (as if it were Ranni from a different time), and the various Moons referenced are each associated with a different person (full moon for Renalla, dark moon for Ranni, black moon unknown, but there's nothing ruling out Renna as far as I know), and more importantly each a different TIME. Each of the three moons in in a different phase, and phases of the moon are a universal measure of time passing. Also Ranni, Rennalla and Renna slot neatly into Maiden, Matron, Crone archetypes, so you in effect get a neat visual metaphor for Ranni/Renna/Renalla's fortunes and role in the world.
I think the "Ranni" during Rennalla's fight is the version of Ranni that Rennalla dreams of and that the fight is either an illusion or inside Rennalla's mind. We fight a Ranni who was a perfect daughter who followed in her mother's footsteps to become carian royalty rather than betraying the gods and disappearing. It's a manifestation of Rennalla's madness and obsession with rebirth as she tries and fails for millennia to recreate her lost daughter and the we show up to take that power from her.
@@sigilbaram uh no, more like Rennala went insane so Ranni put a illusion spell there to protect her mother, and that's what we fought. basically a spirit summon of Rennala that Ranni put there. she probably doesnt even know that its us who attack Rennala.
@@mop-kun2381 for some reason I thought the second phase you fought "Ranni" and "Ranni" being there was all in Rennalla's head, but now it clicked that the second phase is still named Rennalla and the contingency illusion left by Ranni thing makes a lot more sense. *Head desk*
@@sigilbaram technically you did fought Ranni, its her spirit summon afterall. and you never really fought Rennala
Phase 1 you just fought some albinaurics kids and bonk the real Rennala. after you bonk her too hard and drop her egg it trigger the summon + illusion spell Ranni put in the egg
It’s an interesting theory altogether. It would explain why certain enemies exist and why other don’t. The Godskins and Black Flame Monks are scattered with no main base of operations, you’d think if Gloam Eyed Queen had so much power, she would have a castle or place of her own at least in ruins or disarray in the time you play. I do agree with the general concept that it could be a time loop, though I’m not so certain on the relationships of Ranni, Renna, and Melina. I would need a few stronger bridges before I crossed that gap. But all in all, well done to you and Pixel. Really enjoyed the video.
I’ve been saying they’re the same person in Elden Ring video comments for a while now. The time travel idea has been said before, but going back in time to stop herself is new to me.
I just recently got and beat Elden Ring. Twice(I really love this game), got the Age of Stars ending and immediately did a NG+ run and got the Frenzied Flame ending. Lorewise, I came out of the game incredibly confused. Thus I turned to lore videos, eventually leading me to this channel. The way you explain the lore and the game is just perfect in my opinion. And right when I thought I fully understood all the lore and nothing more could change my mind, you drop this video. This could really do a 180 on the entire lore of this game, and I can’t wait to see what other lore videos you have in store!
The reason you were confused is because the game was rushed towards release and connecting lore content was cut.
@@mistakai4226 I don't think the lore was rushed although some gameplay elemnts might have been, Dark Souls games have the same convulated lore that no one is 100% sure of what happened.
@@GodOfWarBG I'd be willing to bet that much of the lore of Elden ring didn't ship with the game because of the release deadline. The difference between Elden ring and dark souls is that the lore is not convoluted by intent this time around. There are confusing asset placements which only make sense in the context of a release deadline forcing a lore-inappropriate asset to be placed. In dark souls, the lore felt broken by design. In Elden ring, it just feels broken.
Miquilla has a great rune of abundance.
Time travel also explains how Maliketh can be a boss fight and a starved gurranq. It could also explain the spirits you see that give you insight on the lore like the one about the shabriri grapes after Godrick.
One thing that doesn't seem to fit is that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was known to wield the Godslayer Greatsword, Melina the Blade of Calling, and Ranni Dark Moon sorcery. If they were the same person at different times, you would expect at least two of them to have overlapping fighting-styles or use similar weapons.
I mean, Dark Souls has a lot of weird stuff regarding the past, present, future, and alternate realities. I would not at all be surprised if Ranni is doing some time shenanigans.
I started to suspect that the Tarnished was indirectly a time traveller, similar to the Unkindled in Dark Souls. When traversing the world, it was always odd to me that we would encounter soldiers that are long withered and practically undead, guarding forts and fighting old enemies, almost as if they're stuck in a memory. For example, in Caelid, when redmane soldiers are fighting off scarlet rotted creatures, or when Messmer Soldiers are still holding fortified encampments, as if they're still actively campaigning against the hornsent, yet everything around them is long gone. My theory is the Tarnished is travelling through the lands between, but in different pockets of time, to retrieve certain elements of importance(Great Runes/Weapons/NPCs) to ultimately rid/mend the Shattered world they were brought in.
ELDEN RING MIGHT NOT NEED A DLC BUT I NEED A DLC
Does anyone also think that the pattern on Ranni's hat looks a bit like the language of Two Fingers?
"Be sure to understand that this is just a theory"
A GAME theory!
This would make sense.
I always wondered why we find Godrick in an Evergaol while also finding him in Stormveil. The converging timeline theory would explain that.
And there are many more inconsistencies like this one that don’t make sense when you encounter them.
This is fantastic and has helped me fully form ideas I’ve had
Thank you!
Well Marika does have a habit of birthing twins. It would make an odd level of since for her male half to sire people who are twins in the same body.
Also half-a-dozen timelines and realities crashing together would explain a lot of BS going on. It would also explain why almost everything respawns when you rest a site of Grace. Things out of place, like the beastman of Faram Azula, don't respawn because they are literally out of place and time.
Melina being able to travel explain the Glowm Eyed Queen and why she seems to come out of nowhere holding the rune of destined death and then disappears. Kind of.
also side note for melina opening her left eye. since her right eye is clouded, her purpose is gone like when marika banished horah loux to the badlands because he lost his spirit and his eyes faded, fading or loss for melina unsealed her gloam eye. i think the gloam eye can only return if frenzy happened. but who or why was it sealed in the first place, where is she from? the godskin nobles adored their gloam eye queen from a long long time ago. she does lie here and there so shes not 100% trustworthy either.
This is a cool theory but I took everything differently.
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We can infer that the GEQ's rune had something to do with death if not outright being the rune of death. With her being an Empyrean she's either a direct offspring of solely Marika or she was chosen by the two fingers as a candidate for becoming a god. I think the later is more likely.
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Melina is kind of tricky, I do think that she WAS the GEQ but after being defeated by Gurranq, she was imprisoned in the Erd Tree and reborn as Melina. By being killed by the full rune of death the GEQ could be returned to the tree after death and then reborn/summoned whenever Marika/Greater Will deemed fit.
(I will say you are spot on with Melina doing the whole "burning" herself in the flame thing multiple times.)
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Ranni is the simplest imo, Ranni is Ranni but also Renna. Renna is just a pseudonym used by Ranni to move around in her doll form.
No one knows Ranni is the "Witch doll" except Blaidd, Iji, Seluvis/Pidia, and maybe the Black Knife Assassin's. To the public she operates as Renna, snow witch but secretly she's a princess. Same as Morgott/Margit.
The name Renna most likely just derived from Rennala.
As to where her rune is? I'd say it's safe to say it's on the moon. You can see it in game and I'm cutscenes.
The Ranni cinematic trailer literally says “And so, we inhabit a fractured world.”
Ranni and the others always reminded me of ''Maiden, mother, crone'' and ''past, present, future'' all different but basically one in the same.
Their voices sounded so simular, that I was about to say they were the same voice actor.
To add to your theory. When we defeat Maliketh in Farum Azula (a place that messes with time) we see a sentient black fog combine with the Rune of Death and potentially the fell flames Melina amplified. And only then does Enia say 'the Rune of Death is unbound' and the Erdtree is set ablaze. Linking both the Gloam Eyed Queen and Melina. Rune of Death also links to Ranni heavily throughout story.
Ranni's bro Radahn was holding back the stars/her fate, more messing with time.
Ranni also knows the fate of Blaidd and Iji, how? Alternate timeline Ranni seen it before?
Also, one thing that always bugged me about the Ranni's ending, is that it's only one where we see the less broken side of Marika's face resting on the ground, Ranni also handles her head with extreme care, never actually placing it back onto her body like in all the others, we then see Marika break up into gold particles unlike the others where she remains imprisoned. Which begs the question, why does Ranni look at Marika with such affection? Was Marika good?
I just figured Melina was Ranni reborn from Radagon, but said as "Marika", since the correlation was a mystery. Hence the faded red hair. Since Ranni's soul never died, Melina was reborn as a new soul/person, which is also why she's confused about herself.
But this is just a sort of tip of the iceberg for a longwinded theory around the Carian family.
Loved how you tied it the Gloam-Eyed Queen part! Ranni/Melina’s lore has always been my favorite of Elden Ring
This is an amazing theory and great video! Thank you!!
This is one of the most interesting theories of Elden Ring that I've seen, thank you for the great presentation!
One of the best Elden Ring lore videos I've seen so far.
6:40
If Ranni and Melina are the same, but from a different timeline, then that could mean that when Ranni says “Torrent’s former master”, she would be referring to the feature you, which were when she (Melina) gave the player Torrent.
I took the 3 sisters as meaning the 3 towers
While some parts of it has to rely on pure speculation with no evidence pointing in either direction, it could explain a few other things. For example, Radahn might have learned what Ranni was doing, holding back the stars as a means of stopping her from continuing the loop. How would he know? Well, since we're speculating anyway, maybe the Greater Will told him.
The visual language of Elden Ring can be interpreted to support this theory. Circles represent loops and Rykard is literally a snake seeking to devour everything; what's the only thing left to devour if it succeeds? That's right, itself. And what does a snake eating its own tail represent? Him being Ranni's brother almost seems to suggest that he is some kind of manifestation of her folly. The shattering of the Elden Ring can also be interpreted as an attempt by Marika to literally shatter the endless cycle once Godwyn's fate comes to pass and she realizes that the timeline still isn't fixed.
A lot of things surrounding the underground civilizations and so on make sense if you consider that Marika might be trying to preemptively prevent the Night of Black Knives from happening. But Marika's own purported actions makes it all a bit fuzzy.
The problem of Elden Ring is that there seems to be no elegant way of putting all the pieces together to form a consistent narrative, as many critics, myself included, have pointed out. And this theory, while *almost* getting there, still leaves us with a lot of questions, and only really seems to make sense (at least at a glance) if you ignore a lot of what happens in the game outside of Ranni's quest. But Ranni's ending seemingly being the best option, only for it to turn out to be just another go around the carousel, would be a very FromSoft thing to do.
I had thought about time travel and things converging, but not in this exact way. It's a fun theory. And maybe at the end of it all Torrent is the main agent in all of this. Talking horse DLC next please.
Renna was Ranni's mentor, Ranni pretends to be Renna as a guise to avoid detection as an Empyrean, Ranni thus introduces herself as Renna.
I see it sort of like Margit and Morgott in practice. She hasn't been seen since the shattering and then suddenly appears to you at the church. She's not about to share her real name there.
ranni's dolls body and fashioned after renna. so renna is maybe melina's sister. or melina is renna but i dont think so since she was called the ice witch and melina uses holy magic attacks.
What if the Witch Renna is Ranni from the far future, warning Ranni for what's to come? :^] We know 0 about Renna. Concealing the truth from us was perhaps also very vital for her quest to succeed, it could very well be that she lied to us.
At the start of the Game, we can see Dung Eater being hanged and Gideon being in a Grave. But somehow they are alive. In our Version. The Invader Dung Eater was welcome in the Roundtable. Also a low key Message for us, the Roundtable hold was never meant to be a safe place for us. Ranni's first meeting is low key a message, if we are a Vyke like tarnished or Someone with a free mindset. Like Vyke was the old Failed Protagonist Influenced by Kale's backstory (which was deleted) and the Frenzied Flame. So Ranni changed History. Melina her former self or half version, is solving Kale's quest to take the Frenzied Flame to herself. That we won't become a second Vyke or even worse (like the Frenzied Flame ending.)
Don’t forget, Marika said Radagon, leal hound of the golden order had NOT YET become her, had NOT YET become a GOD.
That’s completely impossible to ignore. Ever since then I knew there had to be some wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff happening
Most of the misplaced ruins comes from flying castles like farum azula it is no secrets, but id love to go back in time see them back in their first shape
something else about this theory is it may also explain why there are so much random boss duplicates like two red wolfs and stuff
Another little clue to this is the Elden ring we see at marika and the Elden ring in Farouk Azula. The “old” Elden ring has a double helix in the center, which reminds me of dark souls where people are pulled and dragged from their timelines. The new Elden ring has circles constantly crossing through a straight line. To me this seems like the Guidance of Grace is dragging heroes to a single timeline rather then being thrown about like dark souls universe
We’ve already seen the two form thing passed down with miquella and st Trina being the same being. Really cool lore theory.
You could also add that the three “required” endings for 100% achievements are the standard ending, Age of Stars, and Frenzied Flame.
It's also possible that the "Three Sisters" just refers to the three towers that can be seen from a distance above Liurnia.
"The way I see it, our fates appear to be intertwined.
In a land brimming with Tarnished(Hollows), could that really be mere chance?
So, what do you say? Why not help one another on this lonely journey?"
"We are amidst strange beings, in a strange land.
The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out.
The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure.
There's no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact.
Renna is the snow witch that taught ranni from my understanding. I'd lean more the ranni and Melina being sisters than future and past renditions.
Observation: the ring on the front of Melina's cape, appears to be the same as the ring on the cape that Ranni's dead body lies on top of. Which would strengthen this theory
I’ve been playing around with the idea that the erdtree/great tree/crucible have a cyclical nature to them. There’s some weird connections between Elden John (the statues in the uhl and uld ruins) and Radagon. Either Radagon is reborn from the ancient Elden John, or Radagon is the younger version of Elden John and when we beat the game the time loop starts with marika broken body in the erdtree being the end point or anchor point, and Radagon being sent back in time (possibly falling back to the lands between as a golden star) and becomes the progenitor of the Great Tree. Meaning marika and Radagon were always one being, just with each half separated in time, leading to all the in-game confusion and gold masks revelation that they are the same. Until thousands of years later where marika would call her other half back to have both of them be shattered once more, together.
If you look up the Norse mythology of the world tree Yggdrasil and the Well of Urd it all fits well with Erdtree and it’s underlying rivers. Time surrounding Yggdrasil is cyclic in the mythos. Other elements of Norse Mythology are in Elden ring as well, Radagon’s symbol is the rune of Wyrd for example.
@@PureConsoleGamers I’ve got two different copies of the poetic Edda, I love Norse mythology
Another key point that happened during the death of both demigods, Godwyn and Ranni, the great rune for Ranni was cast aside, possibly falling downwards to the roots of the Erdtree, lost to age
Interesting theory as it ties up everything, but what about that time Melina said she was born in foot of the erdtree, did that meant she's reborn? Also her file name that means Marika's child, it might strengthen 'Radagon is Marika' fact and why Ranni was the one choosen as Empyrian (regardless the twins affliction).
Already said this elsewhere, but one of the covered eyes on st. Trina’s torch has Melina’s Eye Tatoo/scar peeking out from underneath.
How to reconcile that the Gloam-eye Queen has already existed, ala all the lore from the godskins, referenced on the Godslayer's Greatsword and the Black Flame Ritual
After the events of frenzied flame ending, GEQ-released Melena goes to different time and does her death shit 🤷♂️
@@alawishus44 okay fair enough
I was ready to immediately disregard this theory, but there's actually some really good points being made here. I still don't think time travel is meant to be a main plot point, but the Ranni-Renna-Melina connections are very interesting. Plus I feel like as time goes on, the community has forgotten that we never got an answer to Melina's eyes, and this could be it.
I think the stagnation of 'time' from getting rid of death makes the amount of time that's passed several eons. Long enough everything that COULD happen, HAS happened, we just happen to play through and cause the end of an eternity/age. Or perpetuate it.
There is a sort of merging persona factor with all of the demigods.
Godrick literally grafting others onto himself.
Margit and Morgott.
Radahn taking inspiration from Godfrey and Radagon.
Rykard merging with the God Devouring Serpent.
Your Ranni theory.
Malenia being both an Empyrean and the Goddess of Rot.
Mohg the Omen and Mohg the Lord of Blood.
Imagine if it had a Sans character that talks about the previous journeys and remembers what you do
I like it. People like TA who who say the erdtree has been burned in the past evident by the ash that is already present when we get there, could be from when melena burned it the first time, with vyke as her tarnished. We know he lost his maiden and then embraced the frenzied flame so this could have been when it happened, preventing him from completing his goal
In regards to why she casted aside her body, Ranni actually does state why she wanted to do so. “I would not acquiesce to that thing. And so I slew mine own Empyrean flesh. Casting it away.” She explicitly states she unalived herself and became a spirit because she wanted to have a will of her own, not follow the will of the two fingers, or go through with the greater will’s plan. She already saw her fate in the stars and glimpsed unto the cold dark moon, but still, none of it aligned with becoming Marika’s successor. So now we have a hot as hell blue doll snow witch, and I’m cool with that. At the very least, this is what I choose to believe is cannon. Also, on a side note, sexuality to a degree is definitely represented in this game, along with life and death. All three essential things to create something a new, all three inhabit the lands between. Births, deaths, sexy blue women, and an entrance to a burning Erdtree that suspiciously look like a vagina. Did From Software pull another dark souls “heading back to the womb” moment? Idk, it’s just a theory… A GAME TH- *gets sued by matpat*
when we time travel 1000 years back we might fight miquella bc of the new dlc
Honestly I feel like time travel, or in this case the shattering of time, shouldn’t be all that surprising. DS1 and 3 both had dlcs in which traveling through time was a major part of the story, and although it’s cut content, DS2 was originally going to entirely be a time travel plot.
I want to like this, and I think to an extent it's probably right, but it ignores/forgets so much too. Being born at the foot of the erdtree, Renna being states to be Ranni's former master, etc. Etc.
DLC is not to clear our confusion, it is to ADD more confusion.
Yeah, more than time travel, as in lordran, the timelines in the lines between are distorted and confluxed, so the reason we keep meeting so many beings that are the same one, it's because they are iterations of the same being over time. Like mtg cards meeting other versions of themselves on the battlefield.
A convergent timeline is a major theme of all of the games in the souls series. With every game, From have told the same stories over and over again, with different characters and different locations. Dks3 is entirely about this.
This would make the lord of the frenzied flame ending canon and something I have always suspected. The bad ending is the canon ending.
at first i was like huh? then i was like OHHHHH.
Very nice theory man
OKAY AGAIN!! Sorry to double post lol. But I sat down and contemplated this for a bit, then went and rewatched the opening of the Radagon fight, and now I have a new theory! Melina isn't Ranni. Melina... is Marika
Melina's closed eye? The same eye/side of the head that is shattered on Marika when we see her. Melina's burnt hands? Marika's hands and forearms are also shattered and burnt to a crisp. In fact, her whole body looks grey and burnt sort of like Ranni's corpse, only barely animated by the willpower of the other person inside of it, Radagon
And how did Melina describe herself once? "Burnt and bodiless?" Heck, Melina's hair is even the same shade that Marika's becomes halfway through its transformation into Radagon's
What if Marika copied what Ranni did and killed her body to separate her spirit and set it free from Radagon's thorns, so she could continue her mission of burning the Erdtree? She had to leave behind her runes in the process, like Ranni did, but left her spirit with just enough power to light the forge of the giants and in an emergency hunt down a lord of the Frenzied Flame, just sealed away for now along with her memories... perhaps to keep the eyes of her enemies from noticing her? And instead left the knowledge of her mission to someone nobody would expect... Torrent
Or Melina is Rannis twin sister named “Renna” stolen by Radagon when returning to reign in Marika after she banished the tarnished. Melina has an affinity for fire and light, fights like a black knife, and has a purple left eye implying she’s the Gloam Eyed Queen. Torrent was likely a gift from the ice witch as a young child as a consolation for being unable to learn ice magic. Marika and Radagon could not have always been one being because Radagon married Renalla when Godfrey was still Elden Lord, meaning Marika was still in Leyndell.
Nobody ever mentions the Carian Filigreed Crest that mentions that there was once multiple Carian princesses and since Renalla is the only Queen and only known to have married Radagon she must have been theirs.
Radagon and Marika are twins and worked together after she became god to “shatter” or reforge the Elden Ring with Radagons smithing skills. That’s when she removed the rune of death and the runes associated with flames, which pissed off the fire giants and dragons.
I think Melina is just a part of ranni, as radagon is to marika..
I think melina is the body aspect of ranni, whilst the soul aspect is ranni...
Her burning her body and shedding her emperion form in the night of the black knives seperated them (or was the deciding factor on the creation of melina) and where ranni (her soul) brings about the age of the moon, Melina (her body) brings about the age of the sun, or flames of frenzy as we know it which fits given the body was burned which shows on melina hands with the burned scar tissue.
i think they share the same mark simply because they are the same person, nothing more.. same as radagon and marika sharing the same wounds given to them from their inprisonment inside the erdtree.
i think thats why they are the only 2 endings in the base game that have unique endings, as the other 4 all share the same cutscene.
As intersting as time travel is though, i dont think thats the case.. it was the greater will who gave these beings their godlike status.. it could/would have used them same powers against us or anyone else before we had a chance to even fight the elden beast... is my thought anyways.
Theres a few more points but ive rambled enough
I would love for a DLC to bring us back in time to the lands in between during its glory days.
I'm not sure that I 100% buy the idea that Ranni, Renna, and Melina are 3 personas of the same person, but overall I think this theory has a lot of merit to it and is well-presented. I think you're 100% right about there being many different realities in the Lands Between, reflected by NPC invaders and all of the different possible endings. The fight against the Elden Beast with all of the great Erdtrees supports this. I think it remains to be seen if time is really a factor here, or if it is more the ability to travel between dimensions.
You brought up how the way that both Ranni and Melina disappear (the stars animation) is similar.
Now granted it's not the same as the Tarnished disappearance (white smoke) on death (which is also the same as using/dismissing spirit summons)
But you know who else has the same vanishing animation? Torrent. As well as the Regal Ancestor(s) And four of the five are confirmed to have the same problem: their bodies are dead, you're interacting with their spirit form.(in ranni's case she's even more dead, she's just operating a puppet)
I'm of the opinion that renna was the original blue witch as well.
As far as timelines im more of the competing realities overlapping on a nexus world, as you already have evidence of the crucible tree reality
All I know is, the Frenzied Flame is the good ending.
I will not be elaborating.
Shabriri???
I think when theorizing specifically about ranni it's good to consider how the original script for ranni ending is mistranslated and changes the context of her actions completely
What's the correct translation
I think that maybe they aren't the same person but that when Ranni stole a fragment of destine Death they somehow became connected and came together to make Renna who is an in-between point of melina and ranni
This theory is what makes sense to me with souls games in general. Where do they invade you from? An alternate version of your world! That's where!
This would also explain how we find Vyke in two distinct times in his life.
I perceive the ''Lands between'' to be exactly that, the world / purgatory between a certain fantasy world/universe and its afterlife. Every aspect of the lands between consist of pain, grief, turmoil ,suffering or sad desperation. All the beings in the Lands Between are sent there after death in the real realm ,to either suffer in this purgatory or to rule over/maintain the Lands Between (as a ''god, demigod or Elden lord.). Endless rebirth into a hellscape until the correct criteria is met for the being to pass on to the afterlife, heaven or hell. The Twin Bird is the representation of this. The black death bird transports them to hell or the Red Death bird transports them to ‘’heaven’’.
The very game starts with ‘’Rise ye tarnished (tarnished by sin, thus sent to purgatory) … ye dead … who yet live.
Then you see the grace entering our dead vessel (That died in the real realm) , allowing us to awaken into this purgatory, destined to reawake after every painful death, until the correct criteria is met for the being to pass on to the afterlife, heaven or hell.
Even with the (Tibia Marriner) ferryman of Greek mythology seen across the Lands Between , one can see that the Lands Between is the transition stage between life (in this fantasy universe) and the afterlife of this fantasy universe.
The Greatsword ‘’Helphens Steeple'’ dropped by a Tibia Marriner, is in the form of a Christian Church steeple, these Churches with their elevated steeples in Medieval Europe acted as gigantic map markers for all, showing you the way to civilisation,to Life , to the Light , showing that within this building, you will find the way to heaven , to true life. And of course the way to reach God Three in One, to sit by His side within Heaven ,in the Afterlife.
Mikela and the assimilated prophecy of salvation and the mercy towards the albinorics (the experiments of life / the downtrodden and oppressed / humans) and all whom would reject the evils of this purgatory might just find salvation and the ‘’Promised land ‘’ ..to get to ascend to Heaven.
Melania represents the Medieval Christian knights whom fight to protect the ethos of mercy and salvation of Chritendom , most skilled warriors ..but whom are sadly, just like all people , infected by the rot of sin and whose only salvation is through the One whom they fight for.
We even have the Valkyries of Norse mythology , Melania + her daughters whose sole purpose it is ,to identify great warriors that HAS FALLEN IN BATTLE and to carry them to the afterlife of this fantasy universe.
No where in the ‘’Lands Between’’ do we find any food nor houses, nor any buildings/infrastructure required to sustain actual life, instead we only find catacombs, thousands upon thousands of graves and gargantuan administrative buildings .. housing only figures of power / institutes of magical learning / temples. (Means to / knowledge of how to leave purgatory..or to rule it)
Prator Rykard, a symbol of Egyptian Mythology ,the serpent god Apophis , demon of chaos, who had the form of a serpent and was the foe of the sun god, Re (Foe of the current order)
Apopis threatened the underworld….the lands between.
The serpent devouring itself , a symbol of constant destruction and renewal…
The entire realm of the ‘’Lands between’’ is a realm which depicts the transition/deliverance of the ones whom have died, to the afterlife Christian/Greek/Norse/Egyptian/Japanese kegare, thus the ‘’Lands Between’’ is the realm of transitioning from the world of a certain fantasy universe and its afterlife via purgatory.
The Thrones of the NOX
‘’Night king’’ = king of darkness.
These gigantic skeletons are like eldridge beings, ruling over the Eternal cities , as they sit there, they are undead, dormant, until a suitable amount of lost souls are brought in front of them.
Upon which they wake and devour the essence of all the tormented peoples in front of them, sending the devoured to hell. Thus all the beings in front of them are left petrified, left in their state of anguish, screaming in torment and pain and fear , in doing so the eldridge lords gain power to rule further.
The ferryman of Greek mythology seen across the Lands Between are of his kin, his servants whom serve the same purpose , to either lead the damned in purgatory to the afterlife , or to lead them to the Night king…
AHHHH!!! THE LITTLE NIGHTMARE'S Mucis box FITS SO FREAKING WELLL!!!!!!
This channel really is the Ancient Aliens of the Souls-Borne universe.
Well I think this, Mel, Renna , And Ranni actually triplet spirits like D and Rog twin spirits who shares a body. It would explain the three towers, but who knows till the DLC comes
This is another reminder of just how many small things connect to each other and allow for some insane speculation, with so many things simultaneously being possible. Keep up the great work Jake!
Big hole in this is the fact that melina burns herself so shes unable to go back to the future to eventually be Ranni unless you go Frenzy.
I discovered a crazier theory on Reddit. Miquella is the tarnished, reincarnated in a new body from a distant land. Unmarred by curse and without the shackles of memory he lived a full life until he was revived by grace and activated his great rune. I believe his great rune grants its wielder eternal life by fueling them with abundant life essence. Miquella being the tarnished is why the being in the cocoon won't wake up, there's nothing to wake up. Due to the fact he can't die, miquella as the tarnished can regain their lost strength and set things right in the lands between as they slay their fallen family.
Impossible. Melina: I was born at the foot of the erdtree.
I always thought the roundtable hold of the capitol was an odd and misplaced thing. I figured it was just another hold similar to the one we know, but this seems more likely
I find it so cool you used the little nightmares 2 soundtrack, a game also in a state of ruin and in some sort of time paradox.
All the fractured identities and the lore and archetypes are based in Jungian psychology. All aspects of the self have to be integrated in a balanced way. Some clues point to everyone being different conflicted aspects of Marica’s psyche. We have to remember that everything about Ranni’s body is a glint stone powered doll/puppet-like Sellen. The multiple arms, sealed right eye and mark and her whole look-patterned after Renna the frost witch (Ranni’s teacher)-is constructed by Ranni to look that way. Ranni has an “R” name like all Rennala’s offspring. Melina and Ranni have to be half sisters. Melina has an “M” name indicating Marika is her mother (who gave her purpose deep in the erd tree. And she looks (and fights with same moveset and weapons) just like Melania and Millicent and all the other Valkyrie/Black Knife Assassins. Melenia is “burned and bodiless” and forgot her purpose but instincts motivate her to burn the erdtree and being destined death back to the lands between. A lot of people are saying her sealed left eye is marked with the claw of the deathbirds and when opened is blue like Ranni’s glint stone doll eye. Powered by the same death/ice magic. But this is not to say they are the same person. Just same origin of powers and similar goals to bring back death and destroy the oppression of the golden order. However Ranni wants to bring the age of stars and separate death and the runes of power out of the lands between while Melina wants to bring the age of fracture and keep things the same but bring destined death back into the world and end the oppression of the erd tree imprisoning all thee dead spirits. But how does Melina burn the Erdtree if she doesn’t have a body? Three different towers to me means there must be three distinct sisters who want different endings. But how are Ranni and Renna different enough to have different towers? Is the frost witch Renna another sister relative? Maybe the towers being three sisters is just an architectural name and not named after people. Also the gloam eyed queen seems connected to age of dusk, the prince of death and those who live in death. This feels different from Melina’s desire to keep the beauty of life and new births happening in the lands between so the connection with her dusk eye and the dusk eyed queen seems confusing but probable. Lastly in this haphazard list of lore: the mark on Ranni’s left eye on her doll body is a glintstone sigil for her frost/nox/night/moon/death magic