For me, the one thing that really throws me off is that Shade tries way, way too hard. Unlike Bain who was professional and a simple speaker for the heisters.
I want more interactions and conversations between heisters just like how it was in Payday The Heist. It can really feed into the heisting atmosphere a lot if a character just simply backtalks to Shade or Houston and Hoxton both poke at each other.
@@zerparadoxx9458 I genuinely agree, shade needs a bit less interaction in the heist, she's not there with the gang. The heisters should call out things during the heist while shade is usually just for objectives
@@brwokbrwok Maybe we are not supposed to trust her, what if it turns out she was the antagonist all along!? 🤣 Sometimes predators like to play with their food.
I want the payday the heist style, not only the more realistic and grounded tone but also the more cinematic sense with setpieces and that heisting fantasy of executing a plan like an action movie
Payday 3 needs to lean more into what made Payday 2 as popular as it is. When I think of Payday I don't imagine realism, I just want believability, like an action film.
The live action trailers scream out HOLLYWOOD and that is what I'm expecting the gameplay to be, which is what Payday 2 was but Payday 3 is trying to be extremely grounded.
Objectives is one of examples in payday 2 a lot of them have plans that feel like a real heist plan but payday 3 heists (Most of the launch heists) have not realistic objectives witch is making them less belivable like as long objectives make sense the more serious tone could stay in objectives and if you look at after launch heists they going into more realistic objectives but gameplay more into goofy side of thinks
I really hated Payday 2’s ridiculousness. A more grounded, slow paced, and consequence filled bank heist game sounds a lot more appetizing than a super-powered military horde mode game.
Nah I feel you are missing the point of a serious game vs a whimsical game. Payday 2 went batshit crazy at one point with too much dumb shit. silly throwables, weapons, heists etc. It became a memegame. Payday the heist on the other hand was super gritty, yet had super over the top action sequences in its heists and overall felt way better. Payday 3 on the other hand is like launch payday 2 where that too also tried to be realistic and toned down. But missed all of the flavor that actually made payday the heist good in the first place. What I personally want from payday 3 is more of what made payday the heist good (the themes and action sequences with a gritty feeling) with the combat of payday 2. But less of the meme stuff that I felt made payday 2 garbage during the later years.
As a fan of the first game I really want the 3rd to be more down to earth. This is what I loved the series for: bad ass looking heisters wearing cool masks shooting cops in adrenaline high stakes missions. Your team is the key. Yes, definetely add more builds, variety and guns but the core thing is your teammates. This is what we got in the second game: toxic community kicking everyone who has the different opinion/mod/suit/gun/deck/skills while in The heist people were more supportive and cooperative.
I agree. I miss the early PAYDAY 2 days, where my crew and I would be pinned down behind a few cars, wounded and starved for ammo, panicked and planning how we were going to get out alive from the situation. THOSE are the moments I adore! Not flipping and flying through the air holding miniguns and dual shotguns like Doomguy robbing a bank.
This comment section really highlights why Payday 3 has an identity crisis. The truth is there’s no simple answer and some people aren’t going to be happy with one direction or the other. Honestly, Starbreeze either needs to try to build a whole new identity or commit to one of them because trying to please everyone here isn’t really gonna work.
They need to make the heists cinematic like PDTH and difficulty, and then focus on gameplay and replayability being like PD2, I think that's the best way of going about things.
The issue i see with asking players which artstyle/tone they want for PD3 is the majority of people never played PDTH, Only 2, so the popular vote/opinion is more silly stuff and bigger hordes of cops instead of improving the AI and stuff like that.
How is jacket not as “realistic” per se? His character isn’t comparable to Ethan and Hila, especially considering it’s his HM1 portrayal. He’s just a psychotic war veteran.
My preferred tone is something more serious, but with a tongue-in-cheek edge to it. PDTH's heists had a good balance, I think. Panic Room, for example, had you blowing up a building and airlifting a safe room from within, which is obviously ridiculous, but it's the action-movie type of ridiculous that doesn't quite jump the shark. I suppose the best way of putting it is having realistic characters in an unrealistic scenario. That's the tone that makes Saint's Row 2 my favourite in that series, and the same applies to Payday. Personally, I like the more limited loadouts we currently have. In PD2 you can't really run a rifle and pistol because of how much skill investment you need to put into pistols when ultimately I just want it to be a sidearm anyway. Why do that when SMGs are just rifles for your secondary slot? I was also never too keen on the quirkier additions to later PD2's lineup. Flamethrowers, burst-fire chemical grenade launchers, dual wielded assault rifles (because that's what the CR805B was, really), bows and arrows, crossbows, whatever the hell the Hailstorm is... I like the more grounded lineup launch PD2 had, not all that stuff. Similarly, I prefer the more grounded gameplay. Payday 2's balance was completely out of whack. Health damage meant nothing because regenerating it is so mindless. Ammo meant nothing because literally everything is super ammo positive nowadays. Downs meant nothing because everyone and their mother runs maxed-out Medic Bags, and getting downed out of cover meant nothing because everyone and their mother also runs Inspire, too. It's telling that their solution to difficulty was "flood the players with cops that kill you in two shots", because gradually whittling players down was absolutely no longer an option. I was excited for Payday 3 as an opportunity to wipe the slate clean and make things a bit more balanced. Return to more attrition-based gameplay so mistakes would actually mean something. Unfortunately, they WAY overcorrected, making armour so limited - mistakes aren't what you're punished for, you're punished simply for existing. And now the writing is on the wall that they'll hard pivot the other way, back to PD2 and it's utterly meaningless resources. Just look at the ammo pickup buff from a few updates back. Everything is now comically ammo-positive, to the point that Ammo Bags are even more pointless than they were in PD2. Another issue with the current tone is Starbreeze's writers are so comically bad at storytelling that any attempt at a serious story is never going to land. I realise that people who want a grounded tone are absolutely in the minority when it comes to the Payday community. The devs are going to need to pivot towards where the money is to stay afloat, and that money is in the late-stage Payday 2 fanbase. Flamethrowers, akimbo, mini-nukes, let's go wild! This is a co-op game in name only, because every player is a one-man army! I'm sounding a little bitter here, I apologise. It's just annoying, personally, seeing PD3 speedrun PD2's slow slide from serious to whacky that I was annoyed by back in the day, too.
I think as long as the story stays 'grounded' we can wack out in other places. It's not immersion breaking for me to see a homie using a mini-gun or ammo funnel to tap into their Rambo fantasy. Aliens and all that is what killed the story for me. It was interesting but, meh. I miss the 'Hollywood' vibes of the old heists. I want to feel like I'm in an action movie, not Tom Clancy's: The Heist.
I hope Starbreeze leans more into the PD:TH aspects than PD2's, PD:TH wasn't able to flesh itself out much more due to it being the first payday game and so had limited scope and resources. 2 on the other hand had 10 years of fleshing out, so in terms of crazy power fantasy, 2 has it covered. I want 3 to be more grounded and realistic (while of course prioritizing fun above all else), I don't want another bloated chaotic shooter when I already played 2 for 5 years, and even after that I got sick of 2's constant escalation of player strength to insane heights, with perk decks being the biggest culprit of that.
I actually reinstalled Payday 2 a bit after the server browser, I haven't played it much before PD3. But I can tell you, it was one of the most fun times heisting I've had, especially the career mode gave a good incentive to play. Right now PD3 feels like some COD type title with PVE gameplay and crappy update schedule Also, just to add in opinion, I'd prefer PD to keep the tone it has in terms of gameplay, the half in half style is something I quite enjoy, however heists need a lot more general creativity which doesn't revolve ultimately about crypto or futuristic software but doesn't also boil down to stealing money from a bank, PDTH did this perfectly with its little heist selection, making each one feel unique. The tone should have a more light-hearted feel, leaning towards pd2 but staying grounded since I would not like another goat simulator, but the story definitely needs to pick up - even if it includes some alien bs, because it's waaay too low stakes currently
In my opinion a mix between PDTH and 2 was my ideal Payday, but the way they made 3 completely misses the point, a mix of both paydays would be more like, the character interactions and the heists style seen on TH, and the customization of Loadout, masks and builds from 2, getting the best aspects of both, but PD3 did nothing of it, the Loadout system is blend, the builds are not much interesting, the heists don't have tension something that payday since TH was very good at it, there is just a blend shooting galary with boring enemies and Clunky movement for most of the time.
With the updated graphics and overall feel, along with the "goofy fatigue" from PD2, i believe the game would benefit A LOT if it went with a more serious tone
I think Payday 3 could have had a great story but they seriously fumbled the ball with their villains. When we launched, we had two - Sharke and Garnet. Both then proceeded to die in cutscenes, leaving us with no primary antagonist for months. Then we got Concord, who took a few hits and... died in a cutscene. Personally, I would have massively preferred it if instead of all the villains just being plot points with no actual effect on the gameplay, we got to actually take out Sharke and Garnet in assassination jobs that were released for free over the first year. That would have been way better than bringing Murky Station back. (Yes, I know, Gold & Sharke is technically a heist targetted at Sharke... but it doesn't feel right to be like "ok, we got her private papers, and now we just upload them to the internet and do nothing".)
My opinion is: it should be stay more grounded/realistic and work its way up into the chaotic shooter. The biggest issue for me is the **edge/grit/rush**, I've never liked it and never will (doesn't mean i won't stop playing the game), felt like a sort of restriction when it come to being the "all you can be" or "overall player" while having perks locked behind it. Rather having at perks by obtaining passively or by kills, or just not having perks at all and stick to the PDTH skill selector
Edge, Grit, and Rush need to go. The game can remain grounded but also have a dash of cheekiness. I'd rather the game play out like an action film more than Tom Clancy's Heist Simulator.
I don't think I'd really care too much about a certain identity. What it feels like to me, it's more casual focused. It's nowhere near as difficult as the previous games unless you purposely make it difficult for yourselves. The idea of having increased spawns or less cloakers or whatever would be good things to consider as separate modifiers that people could choose, and in return be greeted or penalized with a different payout.
Keep the goofy things in, but make the gameplay more like the heist. The heist felt cooperative while the only thing I did in 2 was say oh crap minigun dozer or oh I’m downed. Nothing else. Pdth I felt like a crew and I can kinda get that feeling in 3, I hope they lean into realism
Personally? I really liked the wide build expression of Payday 2, but I felt it was held back by the game's rather basic graphics and gunplay. I was really hoping for something with just as many (or preferably more) options to make interesting builds, but with tighter gunplay and better visuals.
I think PAYDAY 3 can fit both silly and serious stuff in the game by at least trying to explain it. Like make it believable to a degree. I could believe Jacket in PD2. I just cannot believe Ethan and Hila.
I agree completely. Plus the PAYDAY 2 enjoyers will always be playing that for it's specific power fantasy anyway. So it doesn't benefit PAYDAY 3 to go the same road as PAYDAY 2 again, I think.
Personally I Wish They Would Make Pd3 More "Grounded" And "Realistic" But Sadly The Going More Wacky And Goofy With Pd3 Is The More Commercially Viable Way :(
I don't see it having much of an identity issue since it does feel like a solid blend between the other two payday games, the issue lies in three easy to notice areas: Content (I'm referring more to heists/events), Guns and reworks (let's face it there is plenty that needs to be tweaked especially after the end of operation medic bag)
Honestly, I just want for the game to be balanced. For example, take a look at what Payday 2 Restoration Mod does - many power fantasty things were left (like those absurd weapons) or added (like a Titandozer welding a Railgun), but instead got reworked or rebalanced to fit the grounded experience.
The power fantasy is what got me hooked to PD2. The only other game that came close to giving me that same feeling was Helldivers 2 (but, Sony soured the taste too much for me to keep playing that). The issue they will face if they try to go for a more realistic tone is that they will be competing against every other heisting game (Crime Boss, Perfect Heist, etc).
"Agreed. As someone who is approaching 300+ hours at this point and having done basically everything the game has to offer, they need to make a decision. I still have little to no faith that this game will last, especially when *Payday 2* is still averaging a quarter of a million daily players while *Payday 3* can barely manage 1,000. I myself am feeling worn out with such a lack of content. How long until shareholders pull funding entirely? With all due respect, I'm tired of spending months waiting for one new heist, only to beat it multiple times and then go back to being bored again. The sooner they pick a side, the less of this drip-feeding we'll see-hopefully." None the less I do prefer Payday 2's atmosphere I love how it never took itself seriously but still had some fairly messed up sequences it felt like a badass action movie with comedy sequences but I do fear we already have far too many realistic games as of late and how Payday 3 would escape or try to make itself stand out as I fear it could sink into obscurity People need to also understand that if you want realism, this will seriously limit almost every aspect entirely. Only basic skills, no crossovers (no Jacket or "Jacket"), and potentially no Cloakers either, as in real life, you wouldn’t see 4th Echelon beating you up and swearing at you or telling you to cry for mommy. The tone that *Payday* is known for would be gone entirely-no wacky weapons, all of that would disappear. Of the roughly 50 people I used to roll with, I’m the only one still really playing. So, if they have any chance of bringing this game to life, they need to consider *Payday 2*'s atmosphere and start bringing that back over time with the addition of more serious-toned heists, or risk continuing this slow drip-feed of content, mixing these two styles, which Andreas admitted is watering the game down, and risk possible bankruptcy. Either way, Year 2 has to be nothing short of perfection, as I and many others won’t be sticking around much longer-with all respect.
Payday 2 is the majority of the players experience with the franchise payday 1 while being the core design didn’t have the same draw which makes it more suited to a designated game mode.
I’m hoping they’re leaning more towards Payday 2 and try to top its craziness by doing absolutely batshit insane heists like a pentagon raid or a heist where the payday gang gets hunted by the predator But I also think that the current playstyle of Payday 3 is great and only needs like 1 or 2 changes, I just want the story to go off the rails
Would love a realistic take for the story, but gameplay, just give me Armor 2.0 and a functioning game without game-breaking bugs that comes with updates, and I’m good.
I think the solution is simple and it always has been, stealth missions should be very grounded and realistic, loud should be chaotic, out of control power fantasy. Leave it to the players to choose. But, when in doubt, lean payday 2 because that was the most recent and popular success.
As someone that has nearly 1.5k hours in PD2 and ~100 hours in PDTH, I would like 3 to lean towards being more grounded since the story is about the Payday gang coming out of retirement because of all the hits were put on them and how all of thier assets were frozen/destroyed. I feel there should be some kind of "Director"/"Captain" that controls the cop spawns. Are the players having no issues killing cops? Spawn more Special units. Are the players just running around, only killing cops if they get in the way? Spawn the Sabatoge Squad and/or Hostage Rescue Team.
It already seems they’ve decided to lean into Payday 2. The armor rework, while mimicking both PTH and P2, is definitely more cartoonish than our current armor system. Houston Breakout and Fear and Greed are both extremely over the top heists, and I’d love to see more of them.
you are not the only one liking payday 2's story, people may call it dumb and a reach but being actually invested in it makes it such a good storyline it's insane
I think a mistake made in this video is conflating "being grounded" and "being serious" at points, or at least seeming to. Around the 7 minute mark you say the addition of Jacket seems to confirm that the game will be taking itself less serious, and I think this is an example of you confusing the two terms. Jacket (despite how much certain payday players have turned him into a meme) comes from a pretty serious game, it's not the most grounded (i.e. the events depicted aren't all that realistic, Jacket can't really be THAT good at killing people), but the game is DEFINITELY serious, the game contains political commentary about nationalism and corruption which are definitely not funny jokes. If there was a Goat Sim crossover planned? Yeah the game is going in a much less serious direction. But a Hotline Miami character does not inherently have to be any less serious than the rest of the cast I don't think, it just depends on how they choose to handle the implementation of said character. Otherwise the video was pretty solid lol
@@bucketzzz. They definitely can be, but stuff like the Phil mask and Flamethrower are post-game unlocks (unless I'm misremembering), and pretty much every joke in Hotline 2 makes sense in-universe. I don't think you can say the games aren't serious - ESPECIALLY the second game - given the uncomfortably long scene of The Henchman being turned to a pulp, and the entire plotline with Richter. Sure they can have their moments, notably The Son's drug trip - but it still makes sense in-universe, and does serve the purpose of making "The Son gets high and throws himself off of the building after killing The Fans" less apparent. I'm more making the point "a Hotline Miami character in payday doesn't need to be goofy" than I am "Hotline Miami can't be unserious".
Re. Payday 3 needs higher spawns, I think it's a lot more complicated than that, because in solo play the spawns feel perfectly alright. It's a combination of a few things, like: 1. The way the wider cop management systems like drama work essentially mean that the "running out of cops" phenomenon is largely inevitable in multiplayer, because you have 4x the damage output and actually won't get the cops needed to compensate for it 2. Cop distribution is still really bad, the police's victory condition is still to swarm up and assemble a firing squad in your face and they completely ignore defending areas you aren't visiting, which is why you get weird situations like Fear & Greed's escape being pretty easy or there always being tons of cops in the back alley of Dirty Ice but barely any in the front streets. This poor AI leaves far too much of the difficulty up to the map 3. The game's damage systems have devolved into us onetapping every normal cop without having to pay a build cost like high skill investment or bad ammo economy or etc. You can just rock on with the SA rifle
On the note of cop spawns and aggressive builds, I think a good way to increase spawns without it feeling suffocating for non-DPS builds should be to have some mild dynamic systems in place to ensure that cop spawns are adaptive to which players are performing the best in terms of kills. Players who kill more cops become increasingly higher targets for SWAT, and enemy spawns near them may be increased, while people who kill less cops will attract less attention and wont be as highly targeted during teamfights. This would ensure that the game is consistently challenging for each player rather than some passive builds being steamrolled by a generally increased spawnrate while power builds get bored.
Personally, I think the best way of handling this is to have the lower difficulties play much like Payday 2 while the higher difficulties would play out just like Payday The Heist, as it should be
There is a way to have both, rework skills to have a lot of small passive buffs but also keep the edge grit and rush skills and have stronger skills tied to those buffs, basically how in borderlands you can play normally and get health increases and damage increases, or you can get some shit like upon killing an enemy your penis grows 48 inches and can be used as a whip to pull enemies toward you, but seriously you can get a killskill that massively increases fire rate which makes you much stronger if you play aggressive or you can stick back with more passive builds and either are available, then more modifier options to change the game with things like a constant assault wave from the start of the heist, or start the heist in the final tier of police so dozers spawn at the start, my main issue in payday is the start of heists are really bland because you know what enemies are going to come and because of how heist profession and enemy spawning works you know exactly when you’ll see the first dozer cause he’ll show up at the exact same time every time
Honestly, what I really want from Payday 3 is just it being more hard. Shift the Difficulty up by 1 (normal becomes what hard is now, hard becomes what very hard is now, etc.), make cops tougher, and lessen spawns on lower difficulties and increase it as you go up. If i'm playing easy, i want it to be somewhat difficult but not too hard. if i'm playing hard, i want a struggle to survive. Not impossible, but hard without throwing mountains of cops at you. Skill rework would work perfectly with this too. what you could also do is raise the number of cops but lower their health on lower difficulties, so on the lower end it's more Payday 2, and reverse that so on harder difficulties, it's more Payday: the Heist. On an unrelated note, still waiting for Paycheck: the Robbery to launch
I feel like identity should make it feel like a action movie where even if you know what they doing isn't that real you still believe becuse of objectives and besides payday 2 silly is much better then what tf happend in GTA online did where thinks make less sense
id say that i also want it to go for a realistic, more grounded tone overall. but honestly, i think we are the minority voice in that regard from what ive observed --- sometimes when i look at other discussion regarding pd3, i always see people yearning for the skill trees in pd2 to return, or the wacky weapon selection in that game. ive seen suggestions to ramp up the cop numbers to how they were in PD2 where the entire population of Earth suddenly wanted to join the police force. in the end, as much as i want them to go in the direction of PD1, it does feel like the majority of players dont really care that much
I liked Payday 2 mystic tone starting from Diamond Heist with the lore around bat shit insane Nephilims, all the way to the Secret Ending in White House, I read some time ago about cut idea what of secret in White House how 4 heisters were jumping in portals and fighting demons dunno if that was real but it sounded fun, maybe its cause it was the time when I was playing PD2 the most + school days, so updates felt like infinite content that were dropping on your head by devs, especially Spring Breaks (I thought that DLC roadmap they showed us with codenames for each dlc were something like Spring Breaks we had in PD2 when they were dropping tons of content in span of a week, Search For Kento had 2 heists and a new best gamemode Crimespree, same year they release Locke and Load with 2 heists and same year they released extra 3 heist afterwards, and 2018 was the same with great finale.
If they kept the gameplay grounded and tactical, with these whimsical over the top heists how much cooler would you feel knowing that your team pulled it off? Like you said with PDTH where it would feel rewarding to get it done.
Payday3 actually did quite well in making a more grounded/realistic gunplay, the recoil is mostly on point and AK details aren't too bad(custom parts are still bad). Staged reload...etc. is appreciated. Reloading with bullet left in mag will actually be reflected on magazine model dropped in game; reload on empty mag will also be empty. Crybabies didn't like the armor system but they forget Payday 3 was built with a less "all-or-nothing" stealth system, meaning people can and should stealth at least first 1-2 segment of heist before going loud. Ideally they wouldn't go loud until the finale, in which case the overall tougher armor will only benefit players rather than segments lost due to attrition by going loud at start of heist. The biggest issue as always been poor launch state(technical)/lack of content, not the direction payday3 went in terms of gameplay design.
a lot of the popularity that payday 2 got in the later years was mostly because of the chaotic gameplay and comedy that yters like russianbadger and marioinatophat had. I think the only way payday 3 stays afloat is by mimicking payday 2s identity.
personaly iwould like more pdth style because its more thoughtfull and fun from my perspective since you have to actually think about what you do instead of like in pd2 where you just select stoic and beat the heist. imo the cloakers arent even that bad with cover if you know their spawns and knowing your spawns makes it feel more like a really thought out plan. plus disengage exists
On your point about less serious games always having an opportunity to make serious contents, that is true, but only for "contents". That doesn't apply to ridiculousness that is baked into the core systems. If you introduce something that can win against dozers easily (especially if it's paid), you can never make dozer scary again unless you introduce an even more ridiculous dozer variant. It's a slippery slope, and eventually those whimsical stuff will bleed into the serious contents, diluting the entire experience. So for me personally, I'll have to lean on PDTH side. Heck, I would say that early-mid PD2 might be the perfect spot for 3 to strive for. Still grounded with a sprinkle of ridiculousness but absolutely no meme bullshit. It makes me kinda sad that it's not what the majority of the community right now wants, and SBZ will probably have to listen to them cuz that's what viable for the business. I kinda brushed off Den of Wolves when it was revealed, but with the way 3 is and probably going to be, I'll put my eggs in that basket instead.
5:01 I just want to see two series of Payday; 1 focused on power fantasy and the other focused more on the other vision. In general I want the depth and complexity of PD2 but upgraded in PD3 and not an upgrade of PD1.
I think there is a chord they can strike between power fantasy and realism with pd3 the way i would go about it is id keep all of the "movie style" heists as heists involving the story that way we can get those story beats out of the well the story of pd3 and we can keep it serious during those because its for the story maybe make the higher difficulties on those heists more cop heavy to help keep the intensity going while all of the replayable heists are just silly and over the top power fantasy thrill of pd2
I think my opinion is to do the chaotic PAYDAY 2 identity. It would be beneficial to do that since most PAYDAY fans probably only played PAYDAY 2. And currently PAYDAY 3 really needs to get the fans into PAYDAY 3 and I think that is the best way to do that. And after the crazy stuff we do in PAYDAY 2 it would not make sense that there would be not many cops responding to the robberies of the PAYDAY gang.
I don't want to worry about activating edge, grit and rush buffs and maintaining them. The final charge mechanic is also poorly implemented. It's just got a lot of poor game design.
I mean they can try to stick to more grounded Enemies with skill based gameplay and more thought out and challanging heists while having some of those power fantasy skills and perks. Hard enemies that are smart and adaptable with challenging missions that can be beaten with powerful skill and perk combinations that only work if you use them in a correct way that requires skill. If they want a power fantasy thats easy to understand than make the Enemies thougher. Give them more abilities like taking actual cover, using real military tactices and sticking as a team not a read to be shish-cebab. But reloading every 10 seconds so that your 10% Damage doesnt run out :/ or run for 3 seconds without stopping to be faster aint it...
i believe its wrong to compare all games with each other. all play differently, all have a different system. im a big fan, i put over 500 hours into payday 2 alone, but comparing 3 and 2 hurts the game alot, but i agree that PD3 needs some changes. if i were to generalize both games, PD2 is more arcade like in a way, but both games have a certain "flow" to it. if i could make changes to 3, id like to change some numbers when it comes to loud gameplay. tweak some guns, change enemy stats a bit. it could use a bit more of its previous games arcade feel. the new stealth is amazing, but also has its issues. you can finish missions entirely without masking up. if you have a full lobby you simply loop every camera. theres no punishment for getting spotted outside of red zones since you can get escorted out an infinite amount of time. Masking up feels like a punishment with the way stealth works. Add a limit to the amounts of times you can get escorted out, make maps mask on friendly. Houston breakout gives you 2 entry aproaches but doing anything in that map mask on is infuriating.
I really hope PAYDAY 3 can find its own place. I do think going fully into power fantasy would be a slight mistake, given PAYDAY 2 has more content and people who want the power fantasy will just go play that one, since they prefer it and probably will always prefer it. I hope they can find a nice middle ground, the is sure of itself. I'd love to see a PDTH tone, since it has a more movie-esque style which is really cool and fun. The massive amounts of cops is too much. IMO the cops should be more sparse, but have more of a presence. Also, the heists can be explosive, fun and interesting while still feeling real. PDTH has this down very well, using big expansive, even crazy locations and objectives while still making the game feel grounded in a way.
it doesnt really have all to much right now, the most current updates are slowly making it like payday 2, between the UI, the changes of AI, and a bunch of other changes are going for a payday2 feel but with more grounded gunplay. I feel like the game is on a good track currently, the player increase recently staying higher is a sign that that is correct with some people, and once they make it more like payday2 but with the charm of 3 it will be fine. payday 1 was not super popular at first, payday2 was terrible and had a god aweful launch, it still even has engine issues and a lot of downsides, its like every CDproject red game, witcher 3 went from one of the worst games to the "best game of all time" years later, same with cyberpunk, they need to have time and keep pushing, and once a massive fix update comes out then the game will be a lot better also dont forget payday 2 has a mass list of DLC's, payday1 had a dlc for a single character, chains. payday 2 had a lot of content and guns because people purchased the heister version of the game, which came with base dlcs like cauge weapons, melees, and heists, plus payday3 needs to make money on them making an entire heist and everything else to keep pushing the game out. all in all, good video, it was really well done and the idea of being more like the payday2 story is interesting since i also personally like the story while some other people dont lol.
I am no fan of the Overkill weapon system! It was meant to make the game more realistic but if the game will head mor into the direction of Payday2 than I want to base my build on specific weapons like the minigun, the flamethrower or rocket launchers. Armor 2.0 is the right direction, we need more variety of play styles! More perks, different weapon types and weapon customization. The game still needs more lore, a innovative safehouse and more straiht forward loot heists withou having to scan jewelry.
The Overkill weapon system is fine, it just needs some tuning. This system allows us to bring 3 guns instead of just two...and I'm not going to lie, I'd be pissed if I had to watch players tank around the whole heist with their mini-gun... They would have to rework skills to accommodate for it, like the skill that allows you to carry two bags should also allow you to move more freely with the mini-gun. I would like to customize my Overkill weapon and case so I know it's mine. I would also like to buy and place a 4 digit pin code for my weapon case to prevent folk from stealing my gun. Players would have to make a good guess if they want to steal my overkill weapon, for the player who owns it, it would automatically open.
I will just say this. People don't know Payday from Payday the Heist. They know it from Payday 2. Payday 2 IS Payday. Batshit and wild. Crazy bombastic wild game. It should stay that way.
I would definitely prefer we get back to some goofier shit. I'd be absolutely more than okay if we didn't go all the way back into "Vlad is a functionality immortal being who has lived for centuries" but I think in the same way that Helldivers 2 embraces the much campier moment-to-moment gameplay it would be great if we could get some dumber shit like the money bundle melee weapon back and in the actual story they just never mention it.
I think Payday isn't built for realism and never was, even the first. Sending in 1/2 the nation of police isn't realistic and so I think they should lean into the gamey-ness of Payday 2's end cycle but not go overboard because frankly, that's whose playing the game. Bring back akimbo pistols/smgs, but drop akimbo shottys. Bring back characters like Jacket with cool skill trees that actually influence playstyles, but drop overtly silly gimmicks like the vape nash deck w/ H3H3. I still like Payday 3, but it needs to be more 'gamey' to have the extended life that Payday 2 had. I also think changing spawns per difficulty would be better, your cover shooting ally would enjoy a medium-high difficulty where most enemies spawn and come from a specific area, but on overkill x they're jump through the windows behind you, fly through vents like its amongus, cloakers ambushing bathrooms like a crackhead sam fisher. I want overkill to feel overkill with overwhelming force, but not increase any health.
I much prefer payday the heists style but pd2 is absolutely what the majority wants... Above all i just want the game to pick a side and consistently stick to it, pd2 flipflopping between the 2 is imo borderline evil cause I can't get into either side of it so the entire game feels like a half measure Sbz I don't gotta agree with you but PLEASE have a consistent vision and stick to it instead of pandering to whoever followed you last on twitter
i think if they want a middle ground i think they could have it be a power fantasy but focused around strategy instead of pure firepower tactical set up focus and cool map interactions that affect and help deal with cops or witnesses potenially funneling them to be a LOT more in your favor but also still having you be more brittle and your firepower in your actual guns being weaker more stuff like the set up buildables like turrets, blocking off doors/windows, etc
I disagree, a strategy focused gameplay loop will kill this game. Folk rarely party up and even with VOIP they don't want to communicate. It's been over a year and I still often see folk just opening the vault door on 'No Rest' without waiting for their team, then they stare at the dye packs until they explode...maybe they'll get a couple disabled on their own....🤣😭🤣 I don't want to play Tom Clancy's: The Heist, it'll just be a frustrating unfun experience.
I think simply having a no skills/realism modifier that we can opt into for more payout would be great for both new players and catering towards realism given the base gameplay is rooted in realism. What that entails is up for discussion.
I'd want the game to stay serious, I don't have a problem with the skills necessarily but I don't like the goofy guns, the shitty dialogue especially when answering the pager, and the soundtracks that doesn't really match the mission at hand, jacket could be implemented seriously but knowing knowing starbreeze, I'm pretty sure I'll never have thesr wishes come to light
I think what you're missing here is the majority of the player base already left, and you are left with only dedicated players whos feedback won't actually revive the game. People want PD2, not PDTH. If Starbreeze makes the game more serious than it will remain a dead game.
It feels like Subnautica below zero. Bain is now an indian woman, the game has much less content than the prior, and the game has 1 female diversity quota character for ever realistic one. I genuinely feel like #3 is pissing into an ocean of piss; like the game is already kinda ruined.
@@schlop1771 Yeah, it's horrific, because woman in modern video games are written by people who want to be woman instead of actual woman (or atleast man who are not mentally ill) Almost every portayal of woman in modern video games is that of a psychotic girlboss with zero empathy (girlpower) or the most boring, dull, bland character to ever grace this earth There used to be so many great female characters, in old and somewhat recent games, my favorite being Cait from F4 (and yes, i know she is well written by accident, but still)
Everyone says that, yet nobody played that game, and even the few that have never reached 1000 hours I get the appeal, especially someone who loves Heat (the movie) but the truth is, a game that is all grounded and slow has no longterm appeal, and a live service game needs exactly that Live service games need to cater to the autistic adhd people (like myself) instead of dad gamers to survive, it always has been this way, and always will be And yes, of course there are exceptions, everything has exceptions, but the existance of exceptions doesn't break the rule
@@basedlegionary6877Well that's mostly because of a lack of heists, RNG, weapons, and stealth, which hurts replayability in the long term. But with that being said, I still managed to crank about 200-300 hours on the game, which is really good for a game that has only 8 heists. Most wouldn't even pass 50 or 100 hours
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
For me, the one thing that really throws me off is that Shade tries way, way too hard. Unlike Bain who was professional and a simple speaker for the heisters.
I want more interactions and conversations between heisters just like how it was in Payday The Heist. It can really feed into the heisting atmosphere a lot if a character just simply backtalks to Shade or Houston and Hoxton both poke at each other.
It doesn't help how we barely know Shade as well. And we're just like, supposed to believe that all the heisters trust her instantly??
@@zerparadoxx9458 I genuinely agree, shade needs a bit less interaction in the heist, she's not there with the gang. The heisters should call out things during the heist while shade is usually just for objectives
@@KXRules i also loved how bain blamed himself for a failed heist unlike shade who seems just annoyed
@@brwokbrwok Maybe we are not supposed to trust her, what if it turns out she was the antagonist all along!? 🤣
Sometimes predators like to play with their food.
I want the payday the heist style, not only the more realistic and grounded tone but also the more cinematic sense with setpieces and that heisting fantasy of executing a plan like an action movie
Same
Safy, blink twice if kknowley has you captive
That Good & Evil pfp looks weird without the text, I almost didn’t recognize it
Payday 3 needs to lean more into what made Payday 2 as popular as it is. When I think of Payday I don't imagine realism, I just want believability, like an action film.
I play PD for the horde shooter and fun objectives, more of this please!
The live action trailers scream out HOLLYWOOD and that is what I'm expecting the gameplay to be, which is what Payday 2 was but Payday 3 is trying to be extremely grounded.
me too
Objectives is one of examples in payday 2 a lot of them have plans that feel like a real heist plan but payday 3 heists (Most of the launch heists) have not realistic objectives witch is making them less belivable like as long objectives make sense the more serious tone could stay in objectives and if you look at after launch heists they going into more realistic objectives but gameplay more into goofy side of thinks
I really hated Payday 2’s ridiculousness. A more grounded, slow paced, and consequence filled bank heist game sounds a lot more appetizing than a super-powered military horde mode game.
Nah I feel you are missing the point of a serious game vs a whimsical game. Payday 2 went batshit crazy at one point with too much dumb shit. silly throwables, weapons, heists etc. It became a memegame.
Payday the heist on the other hand was super gritty, yet had super over the top action sequences in its heists and overall felt way better.
Payday 3 on the other hand is like launch payday 2 where that too also tried to be realistic and toned down. But missed all of the flavor that actually made payday the heist good in the first place.
What I personally want from payday 3 is more of what made payday the heist good (the themes and action sequences with a gritty feeling) with the combat of payday 2. But less of the meme stuff that I felt made payday 2 garbage during the later years.
It's like you can read my mind, cause this is exactly how I feel lol
As a fan of the first game I really want the 3rd to be more down to earth. This is what I loved the series for: bad ass looking heisters wearing cool masks shooting cops in adrenaline high stakes missions. Your team is the key. Yes, definetely add more builds, variety and guns but the core thing is your teammates. This is what we got in the second game: toxic community kicking everyone who has the different opinion/mod/suit/gun/deck/skills while in The heist people were more supportive and cooperative.
I agree. I miss the early PAYDAY 2 days, where my crew and I would be pinned down behind a few cars, wounded and starved for ammo, panicked and planning how we were going to get out alive from the situation. THOSE are the moments I adore!
Not flipping and flying through the air holding miniguns and dual shotguns like Doomguy robbing a bank.
This comment section really highlights why Payday 3 has an identity crisis. The truth is there’s no simple answer and some people aren’t going to be happy with one direction or the other. Honestly, Starbreeze either needs to try to build a whole new identity or commit to one of them because trying to please everyone here isn’t really gonna work.
They need to make the heists cinematic like PDTH and difficulty, and then focus on gameplay and replayability being like PD2, I think that's the best way of going about things.
The issue i see with asking players which artstyle/tone they want for PD3 is the majority of people never played PDTH, Only 2, so the popular vote/opinion is more silly stuff and bigger hordes of cops instead of improving the AI and stuff like that.
How is jacket not as “realistic” per se? His character isn’t comparable to Ethan and Hila, especially considering it’s his HM1 portrayal. He’s just a psychotic war veteran.
Most unrealistic part of jacket being on the team is a russian being on the team as well
My preferred tone is something more serious, but with a tongue-in-cheek edge to it. PDTH's heists had a good balance, I think. Panic Room, for example, had you blowing up a building and airlifting a safe room from within, which is obviously ridiculous, but it's the action-movie type of ridiculous that doesn't quite jump the shark. I suppose the best way of putting it is having realistic characters in an unrealistic scenario. That's the tone that makes Saint's Row 2 my favourite in that series, and the same applies to Payday.
Personally, I like the more limited loadouts we currently have. In PD2 you can't really run a rifle and pistol because of how much skill investment you need to put into pistols when ultimately I just want it to be a sidearm anyway. Why do that when SMGs are just rifles for your secondary slot? I was also never too keen on the quirkier additions to later PD2's lineup. Flamethrowers, burst-fire chemical grenade launchers, dual wielded assault rifles (because that's what the CR805B was, really), bows and arrows, crossbows, whatever the hell the Hailstorm is... I like the more grounded lineup launch PD2 had, not all that stuff.
Similarly, I prefer the more grounded gameplay. Payday 2's balance was completely out of whack. Health damage meant nothing because regenerating it is so mindless. Ammo meant nothing because literally everything is super ammo positive nowadays. Downs meant nothing because everyone and their mother runs maxed-out Medic Bags, and getting downed out of cover meant nothing because everyone and their mother also runs Inspire, too. It's telling that their solution to difficulty was "flood the players with cops that kill you in two shots", because gradually whittling players down was absolutely no longer an option.
I was excited for Payday 3 as an opportunity to wipe the slate clean and make things a bit more balanced. Return to more attrition-based gameplay so mistakes would actually mean something. Unfortunately, they WAY overcorrected, making armour so limited - mistakes aren't what you're punished for, you're punished simply for existing. And now the writing is on the wall that they'll hard pivot the other way, back to PD2 and it's utterly meaningless resources. Just look at the ammo pickup buff from a few updates back. Everything is now comically ammo-positive, to the point that Ammo Bags are even more pointless than they were in PD2.
Another issue with the current tone is Starbreeze's writers are so comically bad at storytelling that any attempt at a serious story is never going to land.
I realise that people who want a grounded tone are absolutely in the minority when it comes to the Payday community. The devs are going to need to pivot towards where the money is to stay afloat, and that money is in the late-stage Payday 2 fanbase. Flamethrowers, akimbo, mini-nukes, let's go wild! This is a co-op game in name only, because every player is a one-man army!
I'm sounding a little bitter here, I apologise. It's just annoying, personally, seeing PD3 speedrun PD2's slow slide from serious to whacky that I was annoyed by back in the day, too.
I think as long as the story stays 'grounded' we can wack out in other places. It's not immersion breaking for me to see a homie using a mini-gun or ammo funnel to tap into their Rambo fantasy.
Aliens and all that is what killed the story for me. It was interesting but, meh.
I miss the 'Hollywood' vibes of the old heists. I want to feel like I'm in an action movie, not Tom Clancy's: The Heist.
payday 2 only needed a new engine, i dont know what they are doing with payday 3
I hope Starbreeze leans more into the PD:TH aspects than PD2's, PD:TH wasn't able to flesh itself out much more due to it being the first payday game and so had limited scope and resources. 2 on the other hand had 10 years of fleshing out, so in terms of crazy power fantasy, 2 has it covered. I want 3 to be more grounded and realistic (while of course prioritizing fun above all else), I don't want another bloated chaotic shooter when I already played 2 for 5 years, and even after that I got sick of 2's constant escalation of player strength to insane heights, with perk decks being the biggest culprit of that.
I actually reinstalled Payday 2 a bit after the server browser, I haven't played it much before PD3. But I can tell you, it was one of the most fun times heisting I've had, especially the career mode gave a good incentive to play.
Right now PD3 feels like some COD type title with PVE gameplay and crappy update schedule
Also, just to add in opinion, I'd prefer PD to keep the tone it has in terms of gameplay, the half in half style is something I quite enjoy, however heists need a lot more general creativity which doesn't revolve ultimately about crypto or futuristic software but doesn't also boil down to stealing money from a bank, PDTH did this perfectly with its little heist selection, making each one feel unique. The tone should have a more light-hearted feel, leaning towards pd2 but staying grounded since I would not like another goat simulator, but the story definitely needs to pick up - even if it includes some alien bs, because it's waaay too low stakes currently
In my opinion a mix between PDTH and 2 was my ideal Payday, but the way they made 3 completely misses the point, a mix of both paydays would be more like, the character interactions and the heists style seen on TH, and the customization of Loadout, masks and builds from 2, getting the best aspects of both, but PD3 did nothing of it, the Loadout system is blend, the builds are not much interesting, the heists don't have tension something that payday since TH was very good at it, there is just a blend shooting galary with boring enemies and Clunky movement for most of the time.
With the updated graphics and overall feel, along with the "goofy fatigue" from PD2, i believe the game would benefit A LOT if it went with a more serious tone
I think Payday 3 could have had a great story but they seriously fumbled the ball with their villains.
When we launched, we had two - Sharke and Garnet. Both then proceeded to die in cutscenes, leaving us with no primary antagonist for months. Then we got Concord, who took a few hits and... died in a cutscene.
Personally, I would have massively preferred it if instead of all the villains just being plot points with no actual effect on the gameplay, we got to actually take out Sharke and Garnet in assassination jobs that were released for free over the first year. That would have been way better than bringing Murky Station back.
(Yes, I know, Gold & Sharke is technically a heist targetted at Sharke... but it doesn't feel right to be like "ok, we got her private papers, and now we just upload them to the internet and do nothing".)
My opinion is: it should be stay more grounded/realistic and work its way up into the chaotic shooter.
The biggest issue for me is the **edge/grit/rush**, I've never liked it and never will (doesn't mean i won't stop playing the game), felt like a sort of restriction when it come to being the "all you can be" or "overall player" while having perks locked behind it.
Rather having at perks by obtaining passively or by kills, or just not having perks at all and stick to the PDTH skill selector
kknowley put it best wehre the skills want you to be a jack of all trades. It's what I dislike about the skill system so much.
@arenndups5294 that's a better way of explaining it, yes.
Edge, Grit, and Rush need to go. The game can remain grounded but also have a dash of cheekiness. I'd rather the game play out like an action film more than Tom Clancy's Heist Simulator.
I don't think I'd really care too much about a certain identity. What it feels like to me, it's more casual focused. It's nowhere near as difficult as the previous games unless you purposely make it difficult for yourselves.
The idea of having increased spawns or less cloakers or whatever would be good things to consider as separate modifiers that people could choose, and in return be greeted or penalized with a different payout.
Keep the goofy things in, but make the gameplay more like the heist. The heist felt cooperative while the only thing I did in 2 was say oh crap minigun dozer or oh I’m downed. Nothing else. Pdth I felt like a crew and I can kinda get that feeling in 3, I hope they lean into realism
Personally? I really liked the wide build expression of Payday 2, but I felt it was held back by the game's rather basic graphics and gunplay. I was really hoping for something with just as many (or preferably more) options to make interesting builds, but with tighter gunplay and better visuals.
I think PAYDAY 3 can fit both silly and serious stuff in the game by at least trying to explain it. Like make it believable to a degree. I could believe Jacket in PD2. I just cannot believe Ethan and Hila.
i really want them to follow the serious tone of payday the heist. after 10 years of payday 2 i cant stand the goofyness anymore, i want seriousness.
I agree completely. Plus the PAYDAY 2 enjoyers will always be playing that for it's specific power fantasy anyway. So it doesn't benefit PAYDAY 3 to go the same road as PAYDAY 2 again, I think.
Personally I Wish They Would Make Pd3 More "Grounded" And "Realistic" But Sadly The Going More Wacky And Goofy With Pd3 Is The More Commercially Viable Way :(
I don't see it having much of an identity issue since it does feel like a solid blend between the other two payday games, the issue lies in three easy to notice areas: Content (I'm referring more to heists/events), Guns and reworks (let's face it there is plenty that needs to be tweaked especially after the end of operation medic bag)
Honestly, I just want for the game to be balanced. For example, take a look at what Payday 2 Restoration Mod does - many power fantasty things were left (like those absurd weapons) or added (like a Titandozer welding a Railgun), but instead got reworked or rebalanced to fit the grounded experience.
The power fantasy is what got me hooked to PD2. The only other game that came close to giving me that same feeling was Helldivers 2 (but, Sony soured the taste too much for me to keep playing that). The issue they will face if they try to go for a more realistic tone is that they will be competing against every other heisting game (Crime Boss, Perfect Heist, etc).
Personally I prefer PD3 to lean into PDTH, since I love movies like Heat
PD1 is more realistic even when you regeneration like in COD... Make sense...
I personally like games that a bit of a Hollywood esc tone to it, you feel like you're in an action movie, which I find very enjoyable
"Agreed. As someone who is approaching 300+ hours at this point and having done basically everything the game has to offer, they need to make a decision. I still have little to no faith that this game will last, especially when *Payday 2* is still averaging a quarter of a million daily players while *Payday 3* can barely manage 1,000. I myself am feeling worn out with such a lack of content. How long until shareholders pull funding entirely? With all due respect, I'm tired of spending months waiting for one new heist, only to beat it multiple times and then go back to being bored again.
The sooner they pick a side, the less of this drip-feeding we'll see-hopefully."
None the less I do prefer Payday 2's atmosphere I love how it never took itself seriously but still had some fairly messed up sequences it felt like a badass action movie with comedy sequences but I do fear we already have far too many realistic games as of late and how Payday 3 would escape or try to make itself stand out as I fear it could sink into obscurity
People need to also understand that if you want realism, this will seriously limit almost every aspect entirely. Only basic skills, no crossovers (no Jacket or "Jacket"), and potentially no Cloakers either, as in real life, you wouldn’t see 4th Echelon beating you up and swearing at you or telling you to cry for mommy. The tone that *Payday* is known for would be gone entirely-no wacky weapons, all of that would disappear.
Of the roughly 50 people I used to roll with, I’m the only one still really playing. So, if they have any chance of bringing this game to life, they need to consider *Payday 2*'s atmosphere and start bringing that back over time with the addition of more serious-toned heists, or risk continuing this slow drip-feed of content, mixing these two styles, which Andreas admitted is watering the game down, and risk possible bankruptcy. Either way, Year 2 has to be nothing short of perfection, as I and many others won’t be sticking around much longer-with all respect.
Payday 2 is the majority of the players experience with the franchise payday 1 while being the core design didn’t have the same draw which makes it more suited to a designated game mode.
i dont care what tone, i just want jacket
@@futakisser yeah, i just love hotline miami (also duke is the best)
@@futakisser i always thought he said "kill thyself"
Ew.
@@PedroSFriend bro what, i just want jacket???
@@Azure_72 Not the best thing to desire, Jacket-main. We need new people. Not a rooster with fake mental illness.
I’m hoping they’re leaning more towards Payday 2 and try to top its craziness by doing absolutely batshit insane heists like a pentagon raid or a heist where the payday gang gets hunted by the predator
But I also think that the current playstyle of Payday 3 is great and only needs like 1 or 2 changes, I just want the story to go off the rails
Would love a realistic take for the story, but gameplay, just give me Armor 2.0 and a functioning game without game-breaking bugs that comes with updates, and I’m good.
I think the solution is simple and it always has been, stealth missions should be very grounded and realistic, loud should be chaotic, out of control power fantasy.
Leave it to the players to choose.
But, when in doubt, lean payday 2 because that was the most recent and popular success.
As someone that has nearly 1.5k hours in PD2 and ~100 hours in PDTH, I would like 3 to lean towards being more grounded since the story is about the Payday gang coming out of retirement because of all the hits were put on them and how all of thier assets were frozen/destroyed. I feel there should be some kind of "Director"/"Captain" that controls the cop spawns. Are the players having no issues killing cops? Spawn more Special units. Are the players just running around, only killing cops if they get in the way? Spawn the Sabatoge Squad and/or Hostage Rescue Team.
It already seems they’ve decided to lean into Payday 2. The armor rework, while mimicking both PTH and P2, is definitely more cartoonish than our current armor system. Houston Breakout and Fear and Greed are both extremely over the top heists, and I’d love to see more of them.
you are not the only one liking payday 2's story, people may call it dumb and a reach but being actually invested in it makes it such a good storyline it's insane
Realistic The Heist style all the way
I think a mistake made in this video is conflating "being grounded" and "being serious" at points, or at least seeming to.
Around the 7 minute mark you say the addition of Jacket seems to confirm that the game will be taking itself less serious, and I think this is an example of you confusing the two terms.
Jacket (despite how much certain payday players have turned him into a meme) comes from a pretty serious game, it's not the most grounded (i.e. the events depicted aren't all that realistic, Jacket can't really be THAT good at killing people), but the game is DEFINITELY serious, the game contains political commentary about nationalism and corruption which are definitely not funny jokes.
If there was a Goat Sim crossover planned? Yeah the game is going in a much less serious direction. But a Hotline Miami character does not inherently have to be any less serious than the rest of the cast I don't think, it just depends on how they choose to handle the implementation of said character.
Otherwise the video was pretty solid lol
Idk, I found hotline Miami to be pretty goofy in its own right. Especially HM2.
@@bucketzzz. They definitely can be, but stuff like the Phil mask and Flamethrower are post-game unlocks (unless I'm misremembering), and pretty much every joke in Hotline 2 makes sense in-universe.
I don't think you can say the games aren't serious - ESPECIALLY the second game - given the uncomfortably long scene of The Henchman being turned to a pulp, and the entire plotline with Richter. Sure they can have their moments, notably The Son's drug trip - but it still makes sense in-universe, and does serve the purpose of making "The Son gets high and throws himself off of the building after killing The Fans" less apparent.
I'm more making the point "a Hotline Miami character in payday doesn't need to be goofy" than I am "Hotline Miami can't be unserious".
Id love to see them keep it kinda grounded for stealth gameplay and get goofy with it in loud
Re. Payday 3 needs higher spawns, I think it's a lot more complicated than that, because in solo play the spawns feel perfectly alright. It's a combination of a few things, like:
1. The way the wider cop management systems like drama work essentially mean that the "running out of cops" phenomenon is largely inevitable in multiplayer, because you have 4x the damage output and actually won't get the cops needed to compensate for it
2. Cop distribution is still really bad, the police's victory condition is still to swarm up and assemble a firing squad in your face and they completely ignore defending areas you aren't visiting, which is why you get weird situations like Fear & Greed's escape being pretty easy or there always being tons of cops in the back alley of Dirty Ice but barely any in the front streets. This poor AI leaves far too much of the difficulty up to the map
3. The game's damage systems have devolved into us onetapping every normal cop without having to pay a build cost like high skill investment or bad ammo economy or etc. You can just rock on with the SA rifle
Give them 2 more month and this game is great ✅
On the note of cop spawns and aggressive builds, I think a good way to increase spawns without it feeling suffocating for non-DPS builds should be to have some mild dynamic systems in place to ensure that cop spawns are adaptive to which players are performing the best in terms of kills.
Players who kill more cops become increasingly higher targets for SWAT, and enemy spawns near them may be increased, while people who kill less cops will attract less attention and wont be as highly targeted during teamfights. This would ensure that the game is consistently challenging for each player rather than some passive builds being steamrolled by a generally increased spawnrate while power builds get bored.
I really want the chaotic gameplay, but also a serious/grounded mood
Personally, I think the best way of handling this is to have the lower difficulties play much like Payday 2 while the higher difficulties would play out just like Payday The Heist, as it should be
There is a way to have both, rework skills to have a lot of small passive buffs but also keep the edge grit and rush skills and have stronger skills tied to those buffs, basically how in borderlands you can play normally and get health increases and damage increases, or you can get some shit like upon killing an enemy your penis grows 48 inches and can be used as a whip to pull enemies toward you, but seriously you can get a killskill that massively increases fire rate which makes you much stronger if you play aggressive or you can stick back with more passive builds and either are available, then more modifier options to change the game with things like a constant assault wave from the start of the heist, or start the heist in the final tier of police so dozers spawn at the start, my main issue in payday is the start of heists are really bland because you know what enemies are going to come and because of how heist profession and enemy spawning works you know exactly when you’ll see the first dozer cause he’ll show up at the exact same time every time
im just finding my suit for the funeral
Honestly, what I really want from Payday 3 is just it being more hard. Shift the Difficulty up by 1 (normal becomes what hard is now, hard becomes what very hard is now, etc.), make cops tougher, and lessen spawns on lower difficulties and increase it as you go up. If i'm playing easy, i want it to be somewhat difficult but not too hard. if i'm playing hard, i want a struggle to survive. Not impossible, but hard without throwing mountains of cops at you. Skill rework would work perfectly with this too. what you could also do is raise the number of cops but lower their health on lower difficulties, so on the lower end it's more Payday 2, and reverse that so on harder difficulties, it's more Payday: the Heist. On an unrelated note, still waiting for Paycheck: the Robbery to launch
I want a Heist game where the guns are as powerful as the guns in the bank shootout in Heat
I feel like identity should make it feel like a action movie where even if you know what they doing isn't that real you still believe becuse of objectives and besides payday 2 silly is much better then what tf happend in GTA online did where thinks make less sense
id say that i also want it to go for a realistic, more grounded tone overall. but honestly, i think we are the minority voice in that regard from what ive observed --- sometimes when i look at other discussion regarding pd3, i always see people yearning for the skill trees in pd2 to return, or the wacky weapon selection in that game. ive seen suggestions to ramp up the cop numbers to how they were in PD2 where the entire population of Earth suddenly wanted to join the police force.
in the end, as much as i want them to go in the direction of PD1, it does feel like the majority of players dont really care that much
I liked Payday 2 mystic tone starting from Diamond Heist with the lore around bat shit insane Nephilims, all the way to the Secret Ending in White House, I read some time ago about cut idea what of secret in White House how 4 heisters were jumping in portals and fighting demons dunno if that was real but it sounded fun, maybe its cause it was the time when I was playing PD2 the most + school days, so updates felt like infinite content that were dropping on your head by devs, especially Spring Breaks (I thought that DLC roadmap they showed us with codenames for each dlc were something like Spring Breaks we had in PD2 when they were dropping tons of content in span of a week, Search For Kento had 2 heists and a new best gamemode Crimespree, same year they release Locke and Load with 2 heists and same year they released extra 3 heist afterwards, and 2018 was the same with great finale.
If they kept the gameplay grounded and tactical, with these whimsical over the top heists how much cooler would you feel knowing that your team pulled it off? Like you said with PDTH where it would feel rewarding to get it done.
Payday3 actually did quite well in making a more grounded/realistic gunplay, the recoil is mostly on point and AK details aren't too bad(custom parts are still bad). Staged reload...etc. is appreciated.
Reloading with bullet left in mag will actually be reflected on magazine model dropped in game; reload on empty mag will also be empty.
Crybabies didn't like the armor system but they forget Payday 3 was built with a less "all-or-nothing" stealth system, meaning people can and should stealth at least first 1-2 segment of heist before going loud. Ideally they wouldn't go loud until the finale, in which case the overall tougher armor will only benefit players rather than segments lost due to attrition by going loud at start of heist.
The biggest issue as always been poor launch state(technical)/lack of content, not the direction payday3 went in terms of gameplay design.
a lot of the popularity that payday 2 got in the later years was mostly because of the chaotic gameplay and comedy that yters like russianbadger and marioinatophat had. I think the only way payday 3 stays afloat is by mimicking payday 2s identity.
personaly iwould like more pdth style because its more thoughtfull and fun from my perspective since you have to actually think about what you do instead of like in pd2 where you just select stoic and beat the heist. imo the cloakers arent even that bad with cover if you know their spawns and knowing your spawns makes it feel more like a really thought out plan. plus disengage exists
On your point about less serious games always having an opportunity to make serious contents, that is true, but only for "contents". That doesn't apply to ridiculousness that is baked into the core systems. If you introduce something that can win against dozers easily (especially if it's paid), you can never make dozer scary again unless you introduce an even more ridiculous dozer variant. It's a slippery slope, and eventually those whimsical stuff will bleed into the serious contents, diluting the entire experience.
So for me personally, I'll have to lean on PDTH side. Heck, I would say that early-mid PD2 might be the perfect spot for 3 to strive for. Still grounded with a sprinkle of ridiculousness but absolutely no meme bullshit. It makes me kinda sad that it's not what the majority of the community right now wants, and SBZ will probably have to listen to them cuz that's what viable for the business.
I kinda brushed off Den of Wolves when it was revealed, but with the way 3 is and probably going to be, I'll put my eggs in that basket instead.
5:01 I just want to see two series of Payday; 1 focused on power fantasy and the other focused more on the other vision. In general I want the depth and complexity of PD2 but upgraded in PD3 and not an upgrade of PD1.
I think there is a chord they can strike between power fantasy and realism with pd3 the way i would go about it is id keep all of the "movie style" heists as heists involving the story that way we can get those story beats out of the well the story of pd3 and we can keep it serious during those because its for the story maybe make the higher difficulties on those heists more cop heavy to help keep the intensity going while all of the replayable heists are just silly and over the top power fantasy thrill of pd2
Imma be honest, i always loved games with an identity crisis. Idk maybe they give me more gameplay variety or smth like this...
Personally I would for them to go back to the more immersive tone of PDTH
I have a build for my friends that is a jugg build… otherwise I can only play uber ghost stealth, I do not enjoy going loud at all in any way
For me power fantasy is most entertaining
At this point in the games life, I don’t think they can afford to keep the game realistic most of the time, for they want to keep the game alive
i just want melee builds back in payday 3....
Why not both?
i just want my hip flask back...
Personally, I am really enjoying Payday 3 in its current form, but it definitely needs more guns, masks, and heists.
I don't mind both of the approaches but they have to pick one instead of what they are doing now..
I think my opinion is to do the chaotic PAYDAY 2 identity. It would be beneficial to do that since most PAYDAY fans probably only played PAYDAY 2. And currently PAYDAY 3 really needs to get the fans into PAYDAY 3 and I think that is the best way to do that. And after the crazy stuff we do in PAYDAY 2 it would not make sense that there would be not many cops responding to the robberies of the PAYDAY gang.
I don't want to worry about activating edge, grit and rush buffs and maintaining them. The final charge mechanic is also poorly implemented.
It's just got a lot of poor game design.
I mean they can try to stick to more grounded Enemies with skill based gameplay and more thought out and challanging heists while having some of those power fantasy skills and perks. Hard enemies that are smart and adaptable with challenging missions that can be beaten with powerful skill and perk combinations that only work if you use them in a correct way that requires skill. If they want a power fantasy thats easy to understand than make the Enemies thougher. Give them more abilities like taking actual cover, using real military tactices and sticking as a team not a read to be shish-cebab. But reloading every 10 seconds so that your 10% Damage doesnt run out :/ or run for 3 seconds without stopping to be faster aint it...
bro I hope they go with payday 2s version specifically I hope they add melee weapons
also what build do you guys use?
i believe its wrong to compare all games with each other. all play differently, all have a different system. im a big fan, i put over 500 hours into payday 2 alone, but comparing 3 and 2 hurts the game alot, but i agree that PD3 needs some changes.
if i were to generalize both games, PD2 is more arcade like in a way, but both games have a certain "flow" to it.
if i could make changes to 3, id like to change some numbers when it comes to loud gameplay.
tweak some guns, change enemy stats a bit. it could use a bit more of its previous games arcade feel.
the new stealth is amazing, but also has its issues.
you can finish missions entirely without masking up. if you have a full lobby you simply loop every camera. theres no punishment for getting spotted outside of red zones since you can get escorted out an infinite amount of time. Masking up feels like a punishment with the way stealth works. Add a limit to the amounts of times you can get escorted out, make maps mask on friendly. Houston breakout gives you 2 entry aproaches but doing anything in that map mask on is infuriating.
Still no offline mode
I really hope PAYDAY 3 can find its own place. I do think going fully into power fantasy would be a slight mistake, given PAYDAY 2 has more content and people who want the power fantasy will just go play that one, since they prefer it and probably will always prefer it.
I hope they can find a nice middle ground, the is sure of itself. I'd love to see a PDTH tone, since it has a more movie-esque style which is really cool and fun. The massive amounts of cops is too much. IMO the cops should be more sparse, but have more of a presence.
Also, the heists can be explosive, fun and interesting while still feeling real. PDTH has this down very well, using big expansive, even crazy locations and objectives while still making the game feel grounded in a way.
it doesnt really have all to much right now, the most current updates are slowly making it like payday 2, between the UI, the changes of AI, and a bunch of other changes are going for a payday2 feel but with more grounded gunplay. I feel like the game is on a good track currently, the player increase recently staying higher is a sign that that is correct with some people, and once they make it more like payday2 but with the charm of 3 it will be fine.
payday 1 was not super popular at first, payday2 was terrible and had a god aweful launch, it still even has engine issues and a lot of downsides, its like every CDproject red game, witcher 3 went from one of the worst games to the "best game of all time" years later, same with cyberpunk, they need to have time and keep pushing, and once a massive fix update comes out then the game will be a lot better
also dont forget payday 2 has a mass list of DLC's, payday1 had a dlc for a single character, chains. payday 2 had a lot of content and guns because people purchased the heister version of the game, which came with base dlcs like cauge weapons, melees, and heists, plus payday3 needs to make money on them making an entire heist and everything else to keep pushing the game out.
all in all, good video, it was really well done and the idea of being more like the payday2 story is interesting since i also personally like the story while some other people dont lol.
I am no fan of the Overkill weapon system! It was meant to make the game more realistic but if the game will head mor into the direction of Payday2 than I want to base my build on specific weapons like the minigun, the flamethrower or rocket launchers. Armor 2.0 is the right direction, we need more variety of play styles! More perks, different weapon types and weapon customization.
The game still needs more lore, a innovative safehouse and more straiht forward loot heists withou having to scan jewelry.
The Overkill weapon system is fine, it just needs some tuning. This system allows us to bring 3 guns instead of just two...and I'm not going to lie, I'd be pissed if I had to watch players tank around the whole heist with their mini-gun...
They would have to rework skills to accommodate for it, like the skill that allows you to carry two bags should also allow you to move more freely with the mini-gun.
I would like to customize my Overkill weapon and case so I know it's mine. I would also like to buy and place a 4 digit pin code for my weapon case to prevent folk from stealing my gun. Players would have to make a good guess if they want to steal my overkill weapon, for the player who owns it, it would automatically open.
I will just say this. People don't know Payday from Payday the Heist. They know it from Payday 2. Payday 2 IS Payday. Batshit and wild. Crazy bombastic wild game. It should stay that way.
I really don’t see how jacket is unserious, everyone else is wearing a clown mask, how is a chicken mask different?
I would definitely prefer we get back to some goofier shit. I'd be absolutely more than okay if we didn't go all the way back into "Vlad is a functionality immortal being who has lived for centuries" but I think in the same way that Helldivers 2 embraces the much campier moment-to-moment gameplay it would be great if we could get some dumber shit like the money bundle melee weapon back and in the actual story they just never mention it.
I think Payday isn't built for realism and never was, even the first. Sending in 1/2 the nation of police isn't realistic and so I think they should lean into the gamey-ness of Payday 2's end cycle but not go overboard because frankly, that's whose playing the game. Bring back akimbo pistols/smgs, but drop akimbo shottys. Bring back characters like Jacket with cool skill trees that actually influence playstyles, but drop overtly silly gimmicks like the vape nash deck w/ H3H3. I still like Payday 3, but it needs to be more 'gamey' to have the extended life that Payday 2 had. I also think changing spawns per difficulty would be better, your cover shooting ally would enjoy a medium-high difficulty where most enemies spawn and come from a specific area, but on overkill x they're jump through the windows behind you, fly through vents like its amongus, cloakers ambushing bathrooms like a crackhead sam fisher. I want overkill to feel overkill with overwhelming force, but not increase any health.
The city of gold maps were pretty good besides border crossing. The first half of Jui Feng was fine. And I didnt really care for the rest of the maps
I much prefer payday the heists style but pd2 is absolutely what the majority wants...
Above all i just want the game to pick a side and consistently stick to it, pd2 flipflopping between the 2 is imo borderline evil cause I can't get into either side of it so the entire game feels like a half measure
Sbz I don't gotta agree with you but PLEASE have a consistent vision and stick to it instead of pandering to whoever followed you last on twitter
i'm sorry pay day 3 still alive
Yea, I would also prefer more cops.
I want the payday 2 style, its just better lol
so does payday 2
but nobody talks about it because le consoom
Just go full bubbelgum circus
I'm 100% on the side of Payday 2 - The gameplay was so much more fun
i think if they want a middle ground i think they could have it be a power fantasy but focused around strategy instead of pure firepower
tactical set up focus and cool map interactions that affect and help deal with cops or witnesses
potenially funneling them to be a LOT more in your favor but also still having you be more brittle and your firepower in your actual guns being weaker
more stuff like the set up buildables like turrets, blocking off doors/windows, etc
I disagree, a strategy focused gameplay loop will kill this game. Folk rarely party up and even with VOIP they don't want to communicate. It's been over a year and I still often see folk just opening the vault door on 'No Rest' without waiting for their team, then they stare at the dye packs until they explode...maybe they'll get a couple disabled on their own....🤣😭🤣
I don't want to play Tom Clancy's: The Heist, it'll just be a frustrating unfun experience.
I think simply having a no skills/realism modifier that we can opt into for more payout would be great for both new players and catering towards realism given the base gameplay is rooted in realism. What that entails is up for discussion.
Drop payday 3 update payday the heist keep payday 2 broken with dumb glitches and start embezzling money from investors
I'd want the game to stay serious, I don't have a problem with the skills necessarily but I don't like the goofy guns, the shitty dialogue especially when answering the pager, and the soundtracks that doesn't really match the mission at hand, jacket could be implemented seriously but knowing knowing starbreeze, I'm pretty sure I'll never have thesr wishes come to light
I think what you're missing here is the majority of the player base already left, and you are left with only dedicated players whos feedback won't actually revive the game. People want PD2, not PDTH. If Starbreeze makes the game more serious than it will remain a dead game.
payday 3 cant be fixed, its doomed from the start
PD3 tries to be many things, unafourtenly, a good game isn't in them
It feels like Subnautica below zero. Bain is now an indian woman, the game has much less content than the prior, and the game has 1 female diversity quota character for ever realistic one. I genuinely feel like #3 is pissing into an ocean of piss; like the game is already kinda ruined.
wtaf are you on about
Oh the horror, women in video games
@@schlop1771 Ironically, YWNBAW
@@schlop1771 Yeah, it's horrific, because woman in modern video games are written by people who want to be woman instead of actual woman (or atleast man who are not mentally ill)
Almost every portayal of woman in modern video games is that of a psychotic girlboss with zero empathy (girlpower) or the most boring, dull, bland character to ever grace this earth
There used to be so many great female characters, in old and somewhat recent games, my favorite being Cait from F4 (and yes, i know she is well written by accident, but still)
@@jaredh923 great, i never planned to be anyway
I want the payday the heist style
Everyone says that, yet nobody played that game, and even the few that have never reached 1000 hours
I get the appeal, especially someone who loves Heat (the movie) but the truth is, a game that is all grounded and slow has no longterm appeal, and a live service game needs exactly that
Live service games need to cater to the autistic adhd people (like myself) instead of dad gamers to survive, it always has been this way, and always will be
And yes, of course there are exceptions, everything has exceptions, but the existance of exceptions doesn't break the rule
@@basedlegionary6877Well that's mostly because of a lack of heists, RNG, weapons, and stealth, which hurts replayability in the long term. But with that being said, I still managed to crank about 200-300 hours on the game, which is really good for a game that has only 8 heists. Most wouldn't even pass 50 or 100 hours