Extreme Speeds At High Altitudes - The Forgotten Nakajima Ki-87
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- The Nakajima Ki-87 was a direct counter to the threat of Boeing B-29 raids over Mainland Japan. However, the design - promising as it was - was delayed considerably, and by the time it first flew the war was as good as over. Here is it's history.
Consider supporting us on Patreon: / aviationdeepdive
Join our Discord community: / discord
Donations to support the channel: www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted...
Sources
Miranda, J. (2021). Fighters of the Dying Sun: The Most Advanced Japanese Fighters of the Second World War. Fonthill Media.
www.destinationsjourney.com/h...
0:00 - 0:59 Introduction
1:00 - 5:36 Development
5:37 - 8:49 First Flight & Testing
8:50 - 10:22 Conclusion 
Кино
Feel free to join our Discord community! - discord.gg/WCevgcufwJ
Consider supporting us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/AviationDeepDive
Donate to the channel! www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=U3F6D98ZXY48N
It is a good looking plane. Reminds me of the P47
Ikr? On a quick look you could confuse it with some weird variant of the P-47.
I was thinking the same. It has a similar profile at a glance.
Well it is a turbo-supercharged radial optimized for high altitude. Similar goals and methods will yield similar results.
It really looks like a p47. Maybe they copied the general design.
@@agentolshki4265probably not
Salute to you for researching these obscure late--war Japanese aircraft. All of them were too little to late, some were very close to being introduced (A7M was long in development, Kikka, Ki-87 etc). Then again their industry were being bombed to oblivion at that point. The only proper late-war planes that saw service were the Ki-84 and Ki-100, both said to be excellent.
For sure, I think lots of these aircraft were incredibly interesting, shame that often information is distinctly lack on them..
@@daniellarge9784 Greg has not covered the Ki-87
@@daniellarge9784 I watch Greg too! He covered Ki-84 in great detail backed by solid sources. But I think he hasn't covered Ki-87 yet, maybe due to scarce resources to work with on this plane
Greg's channel is 100 times better than this
Apples and oranges, but I'm really glad you felt the need to disparage my work which takes days of research, script writing and editing! Appreciate it 👍@nathanworthington4451
Excellent video....Thanks from an Old F-4 Phantom 2 pilot Shoe🇺🇸
Some more info:
- design work started in mid 1942, before B-29 info was known in Japan, I believe
- Prototype was without pressurised cockpit
- to be instaled in wings, 2 cm cannons were synchronised to fire through the propeller, and a 30mm cannon in each wing to the outside of the main landing gear wheel wells
- landing gear arrangement was rare in Japanese aircraft development, main landing gear struts would retract backwards and the wheels would rotate 90° to fit flush into the wheel wells - from here was reason for the problem with it - This, however, prevented
any chance of a thorough evaluation of the top speed and full manoeuvrability
- two 300 litre (79 gallon) drop tanks could be fitted, one under each wing
- During the five flights the prototype did make, the pilot reported good handling characteristics and itwas thought that the Ki-87 was superior in
comparison to the Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate
Your animation is absolutely amazingly….I’m kinda drunk and it took me a bit to realize it was animation…..tip of the hat!
Kinda drunk?
Desperation breeds innovation
With all the captured P-40s they had, I wonder why they just didn't copy its landing gear. That late in the war, they surely had access to crashed Corsairs and Hellcats too. I'm sure that GE turbo-superchargers from B-17s and P-38s influenced the design--why not swallow pride first and simply adapt landing gear systems of the same geometry? Overall though a splendid design. Happy (being an Asian whose parents survived the war) though that it wasn't produced. Thank you Aviation Deep Dive!
The Japanese already had designs in landing gear more advanced than the P40, but if they needed to copy a design, they had no problem copying it.
Another great video. I may have mentioned this in the comment section of one of your other videos, and I will say it again: thank you for not putting music to your videos.
It provides for such a relaxed and energy saving viewing experience.
Thank you 🙏🏽
Thanks, I actually used to but I got some feedback that the viewing experience was worse so I got rid of it a while back. Appreciate the support!
Best late war Japanese fighter? N1K1J/ N1K2J? Ki.84? Ki.100? Or...?
The mockup of the plane during its startup was really well done. You had me fooled for a second there. I'd consider adding some kind of watermark so that no one gets confused as to the source of the footage 😅
maintenance was a major issue for the IJN after all the airplane service people they lost at Midway.
Editing was class
Appreciate that!
Great video! Very impressive late war Japanese fighter!
Yes, certainly a very interesting aircraft!
My favourite airplane of WW2 has been the P-47 with Razorback.. until i saw that beautiful plane. Thanks for the Video 🤜🤛
Nicely done video with good research
Excellent video! Thanks!
Terrific video!
Excellent report 👍👍👍
Man that turbo sticking out the side looks sick❤
Did they like the p-47
Looks like a tribute to the jug 😊
Another great video upload! Love the research you put into these videos.
Appreciate that!
IHYLS is an excellent channel whose vids are very well written and very well researched. If you like this channel you will love IHYLS.
Very nice vid.
A very interesting subject regarding the Ki-87 that had potentiality to be a formidabile aircraft. Who was right where to place the turbocharger? I believe that placing the turbochargers behind the engines was correct making it more simple to maintain, easier installation and less prone to burst into fire. Unfortunately the intense rivalries between the IJN and the IJA in delayed very much putting in production this airplane but also other projects I can well suspect. Thanks for sharing your very interesting video 👍 👍
A turbo works best when it’s as close to the exhaust manifold as possible. There’s not much space there which is why they might have considered mounting it ventrally but for efficiency this is just about the worst place to put it.
@@minot.8931 thanks for the info but perhaps is good to understand that Japan suffered very much from chronic shortage of heat resistant alloys and of course decent fuel...
youre a really cool channel bro. i like aviation and have been subscribed to several popular aviation channels, by chance i found yours and safe to say its really underrated.
Appreciate that!
Очень красивый самолет. Вообще, у японцев во времена WWII были очень красивые самолеты.
It's always a Great Video!
I love Japanese aircraft.
Looks like a reverse engineered P-47.
Looks like a Japanese Thunderbolt!
Looks dope af.
Yeah, great, good video! 👍
Oh yes,the Suisei and Shiden Kai's plus many more that people don't even get to hear about unless nerding out on ww2 pacific. Like me. Infact,i nerd out on entire WW2 Air war so much that i searched until i obtained a book with ALL combat aircraft used in WW2. The book is so good i use it every time i start a simulation om the computer. One more thing. I would NEVER know what Russian Škas and Švak shorts stand for if i hadn't fead it there. More of this type of videos please!
Those 17 initial "production aircraft" would probably have also been serving as prototypes. It became a wartime practice of Nakajima to build a lot of prototypes so that different problems could be dealt with simultaneously to expedite operational production.That was the way they developed the Ki84. Kudos from me as well for the research and video.
The Japanese aircraft that fascinates me was the prototype Mitsubishi Ki 83 twin engine heavy fighter. The US Technical Air Intelligence Unit tested one at 473 mph at 23,000 ft. on high octane fuel. . It is recorded to have been capable of executing a 2200 feet loop at 400 mph in 31 seconds. Faster than an F7F and more maneuverable with similar range..
Thanks
Looks like the P47 made an impression on their design people.
convergent evolution
Yaah, like u saying the Ame-chang copied all the German engineering, copy cats work !!
Awesome
Interesting stuff! You have a new sub...
Thankyou!
I can't help salivating of this amazing late war Japanese planes. A testament to Japanese resourcefulness in overcoming their material limitations to come out with a superb design that can competes with the worlds best.
Thanks.
Just subbed. Which game do you use for your film footage? Looks great with the after affects!
Thankyou! I use War Thunder for the footage!
I fly nearly every day, with superb controllers, by PC IL-2 Sturmovik, I am member of IL-2 SAS website :) I am Car- and also Electronics Engineer.
Fuji Heavy Industries, manufacturing Nakajima Aircraft - today known as Subaru. 😳
Just found this out 😬
Nothing speeds advance of innovation as a B-29 flying above your cities
Looks suspiciously like a P47 .
kudos to you for this great video....armed with 30 mm cannon, few shots from Ki-87 could bring down the B-29...
So much has been uncovered about late war German design yet little about Japanese.
The US presumably keeping much of this to themselves yet has not been revealed publicly, yet
The US isn't keeping much back from WW2 Japanese designs, largely because there isn't much too keep back. The Japanese were remarkably effective at destroying records at the end of WW2, so there is remarkably little reliable documentation in existence...
Where did the color videos of the Ki-87 test flight come from ?
Always thought the Japanese made such beautiful and graceful aircraft during WWII.
So glad my Grandfather got to ELIMINATE some of the Imperial Japanese aircraft, they deserved WORSE than what they got in the end.
@@Eric_Von_YesselstynYou're being a baby. Let go. Japanese WW2 tactics are talked of highly in current USAF Undergrad pilot training. Many skilled aviators came from Japan to learn from. Current JASDF pilots also train with us and they are incredibly skilled often ranking top of our class.
@@user-pn3im5sm7k Zip it you infant... They ate 2 nukes for getting funny with the U.S.A. There's no crying on my end, you're the one who replied to my comment, blathering like an insecure child.
The Ki-87 didn't do a damn thing..
You can quit with the Shoula, Coulda, Woulda crap, kid.
they certainly did make their planes and rifles look aesthetically pleasing to look at
@@Eric_Von_Yesselstyn
LMAO i always expected some sad dude who feels the need to make this kind of respond everytime i see someone makes a positive comment. You really didn't dissapoint.
Reminds me of the P-47 with the 18 cylinder, radial, super charger.
We were reading Japanese encrypted code. The Japanese required skippers to send their location every 24 hours. It was like a friggin’ neon sign for our Silent Service (submarines). Petroleum became quite scarce in Japan. End of story.
Remind us when you beame the self-imposed military historical expert on all things regarding the Japanese in WW II? I must have missed that memo
I don't know how many B-29s went down on the mainland but I'm sure every bit of the scrap went into war production.
Most test flights for the first few are always gear down!!! It isn't until later flights they do start retracting and extending the land gear!
EXCELENTE VIDEO , FAVOR DE TRADUCIR AL ESPAÑOL. GRACIAS.
As it turns out, the B-29s didn't bomb from 10,000 m - at least not effectively. So it really wasn't needed much at all in that sense.
... Gotta wonder how much inspiration they derived from captured P-47s .... +or for that matter, German ME-262s).
Thanks War Thunder for having brought back to life this beast
Great research! Unfortunately the aircraft was designed for a role that was obviated by LeMay’s switch to low altitude night fire bombing.
How match is the fastes Speed ?
I don't think it would have done well vs P-51 escorts being that heavy. Later on the extreme high altitude requirements wouldn't have been needed as the B-29s had to come down lower to get bombing accuracy vs the high crosswinds over Japan. By that time however the US had fighter bases close enough to provide escorts though.
Looks like a FW 190 redesign
Wow , I thought that was a P-47
I love the way this channel trails Greg's Airplanes by about 6 months in all it's subject matter. . .
I think you need to pay more attention to his videos in that case, as he NEVER made a video on the Ki-87 (you must be mixing it up with the Ki-84, which would genuinely require you to not have listened to a single thing in either of our videos).
Furthermore, he has never made a dedicated video on a single aircraft I've covered. The Ki-87, Do 19, B-17 (of course mentioned but never a dedicated video anything like mine), Late 631, CANT Z.511, Mariner, Morko Morane or BV 238.
I am rather fascinated, as I don't know whether you've commented on the wrong channel or what on earth would compel you to write that.
Despite having good design the Japanese aircraft late in the war suffered from lack of critical metals to build the engines and also high octane aviation fuel both effecting reliability and performance
Japanese version of the P 47 but armed with cannons!!
A fighter needed for War Thunder and World Of Warplanes🤠
For some reason the Ki-87 and Ki94-II weren't that fast. Considering how clean they look, I'm honestly surprised. The P-47N was considerable faster, but I'm sure the overall maneuverability and energy retention of the Ki-87 and Ki94-II were superior.
“Turbo supercharger”? Is it a supercharger or a turbo or both?
Turbo is just modern slang for an exhaust driven supercharger.
01:12 | Superchargers are belt or gear driven from the engine. Turbochargers are exhaust driven. So what do you mean when you say this plane uses an "exhaust driven turbo supercharger"? Looks like copy from Wikipedia. It implies that the turbine air compressor is being power both by a mechanical link or drive from the engine as well as by the exhaust. I've never heard of such an arrangement. However, using both a supercharger and turbo charger makes more sense.
im fairly sure they were called turbo superchargers back then, cause it does the same thing but was driven by a turbine, rather than mechanically, and the definition changed once centrifugal superchargers came into play. Not sure tho
I have heard ww2 planes listed as having turbo superchargers. I always assumed it meant that a belt drove it until the exhaust pressure built up to eliminate turbo lag
Hmmm ... in A&P class, they differentiated them. So maybe it's just some author's or journalist's made up word collaboration that stuck.
The first stage is a conventional supercharger which is fed by the turbo supercharger
@@Jon....... It's not a made up word, it what they were called back then before modern common usage shortened the term to turbocharger, and now even shorter to just turbo. They are all superchargers, just with different ways to drive them.
Allied subs were sinking Japanese tankers . They cannot fly without fuel. Japanese skippers we’re required to radio their positions every 24 hours. We had broken their code.
Funny to hear the B-29 called "enormous". I flew in "FIFI", and it's really kinda small by today's standards. Also, taking 14 minutes to get to altitude would require excellent radar and ground control interception. Didn't have it.
SAC museum has a B29, B17 and a B25 tucked under the wing of their B36 Peacemaker.
As you said.. it’s by the standards of the time that you should judge an aircraft. It was HUGE in comparison to almost every other bomber flying.
Seems like a japanese version of the P-47.
The Japanese P47 thunderbolt
Approximately 10 engines were ever built and they were never reliable.
Even if the plane had reached production the war was over for Japan as soon as it started.
Thunderbolt core, its one heck of a beast based off numbers alone!
Turbo supercharger does not exist, it either a turbo charger, exhaust driven or a supercharger mechanically driven.
The guy seems to think it’s a single component.. I commented too. But it’s possible to fit both onto an engine.. I guess that’s why the IJAAF wanted to move the supercharger to a ventral position.. similar to the P47 with its yards of ducting..it would have been really cluttered around the engine .. and to be fair the video does say that servicing was a nightmare.. probably without knowing why.
Great presentation! We have to thank War Thunder for making this design better known, and now you, too! While I like the beefy looks of the plane (akin to the P-47), I find it strange that this kind of gear with aerodynamically disadvantageous fairings was used on an airframe that was intended for maximum speed. Even moreso that they didn't get the gear to work properly (they could have salvaged a pair from one of the numerous P-40s that they undoubtedly got their hands on).
Thanks! The reason for this odd gear placement was that the inboard wing section was largely occupied by the sizeable 30mm cannon ammo reservoir, which was pretty large and didn't leave any room for gear. This gave the designers the choice of either retracting the wheels into nacelles like this or retracting them outboard, which would put a large amount of weight pretty far out on the wings - which is always to be avoided as it makes handling characteristics far more sluggish.
If you squint it looks like a p47
FWIW dude, turbosupercharger is just said turbocharger these days
Once the Japanese military planners saw how effectively large, heavy, fast and powerful American aircraft such as the P-38, P-51, F-6-F, F4u, and especially the P-47, could successfully operate against them, they began to think again about the usefulness of highly maneouverable, lightly built, unarmoured fighers, and moved toward aircraft such as Ki-87 and others.
And the German Focke Wolfe was copied by America .
@@peterm3964 Actually, I think it's the other way 'round. The Hughes H-1 racer designed an built by Hughes Aviation in 1935 very likely inspired later radial engine fighters such as the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, the Mitsubishi A6M Zero and the Focke-Wulf Fw 190.
Hughes showed the world what a clean design for a fast, radial engine fighter might be, and Alexander Kartveli, (1941 P-47, from the Seversky P-35), Horikoshi Jiro (1940 Mitsubishi A6M Zero), and Kurt Tank (1939 FW-190) took it from there, each in their own way. While they are all remarkably similar to the H-1, the Fw-190 is the closest.
The Nakajima Ki-27, Ki-84 Hayate, Ki-43 Hayabusa, and Ki-43 Hayabusa all seem to share much of the H-1's design as well.
@@Glicksman1 Nicely stated
@@drewschumann1 TY
Excuse me, I think you've got your facts wrong. Don't get me wrong I like the Ki-87 but it was generally regarded as inferior to the Ki-94-II. The Ki-94 was considered a better, more well thought out design when the two were evaluated post war. The Ki-87 was kind of slapped together from various components, which sometimes that works sometimes it doesn't. There are records for both aircraft in the NASM archives and at Wright-Patterson AFB.
I didn't say anything in regards to the comparison of the Ki-94-II and the Ki-87, I only said that the Ki-94 (the first one) didn't end up happening due to various factors and the 87 was called on.
I'm not sure how the Ki-94-II could have been considered 'generally more promising' when it never even flew.
I'd be really interested in reading the US reports, as I couldn't find anything
When they evaluated the construction, the system mechanics for both aircraft, the Ki-94-II was considered all together a better design. I'm not going to do the research for you, what I'm telling you is its out there. I'm not sure but I think the Ki-94-II was brought back to the USA for further study (which never happened), and wound up at Park Ridge, Illinois, then scrapped.@@aviationdeepdive
I'm not asking you to do research for me, but ultimately I said what I said in regards to the Ki-94, not the Ki-94-II, despite similar designations they are very different aircraft.
Also I personally wouldn't put much weight in comparisons between an aircraft that only flew with its gear down, and an aircraft that never flew. @@vaughnhosmann6000
Your still missing the point of what I'm talking about. I would suggest reading some books on aircraft construction, aerodynamics & performance, Roy Liming's book (1944) on designing he P-51 would be good, etc. @@aviationdeepdive
A Japanese Thunderbolt. 😅
The script needs proof-reading next time. Engine exhaust drives a turbocharger, not a turbo-supercharger. A supercharger is driven by the engines crank, not the exhaust.
6:00 Did japanise pilots really use english words for terms like pumping, on, throttle, flyweel, engine, magneto, like it shown here?
I mean, USA was their enemy those days...
Dont be naive japs werent cutting edge technos but had progressed past horse and cart
One has to keep in mind words don't spring out of nowhere, these were all technical words, and some of them had been invented along with the invention of certain systems on aircraft less than a few years before. This is how it works in almost all languages.
Search up modern concepts, like 'aeroplane', 'automobile', 'magneto', 'reservoir' and they will be derivatvives of English words whether it's Greek or Vietnamese. This startup procedure was translated professionally so yes, consider it accurate.
What most in America don’t realize is almost all the Japanese plane manufacturers are now building cars, motorcycles that we love to drive, and highly reliable above our own
Yep after the war they couldn't build planes, tanks etc so they shifted to little reliable motorcycles for the people to use.
Then they went on to build cars/trucks and heavy machinery. Honda, suzuki, kawasaki, Isuzu etc
Looks like a Japan version of the P-47.
The Japanese had good aircraft and good engines. Their problem was that Japan was a 3rd rate industrial power at the time that was continually having it's cities firebombed after Saipan and Tinian fell to Adm Nimittz and the 5th Amph Corps in June-July 1944.
A big issue no one talks about is octane fuel ratings. Japan never had octane greater than 87...Germany 89.
We had 100. This is an enormous advantage of producing 80% of the world's oil in 1941.
So its actually amazing what Germany & Japan did with such low octane ratings as far as engines go
@@user-pn3im5sm7kactually low quality fuel has always been a serious issue among the Axis countries, not only but low quality components equally effected the engines. To give an idea Sweden built the license-built DB 605 and was easily developing more 400 hp with high quality fuel with no problem!
@@paoloviti6156 What is low quality about German and Japanese components? Its a big misconception they built their planes awfully but couldnt be further from the truth especially since theres airworthy axis planes with their original engines to this day. Japan in particular invented 7075 duralumin which was an extremely strong & light metal that allowed the A6M to sustain higher G's despite being a lighter plane. 7075 is used to this very day in all AR-15 upper & lower receivers!
@@user-pn3im5sm7kid say low quality metal. Japan historicaly had low quality and low amounts of iron. Which is why they became famous for their layered steel as it was a way around it.
Germany is a prime example with their alloys becoming brittle for tank armor and components due to lack of molybdenum, verandium, etc making their metals more brittle, not handle high temps as well etc
So I assume the same for Japan. They also had shortages of aluminum, so they had to use steel which is heavier causing more weight for stuff
@@travisrolison9646 Despite Japan's metal quality issue, they still managed to produce some of the most stout engines and even had the strongest bolt actions of any country (Tested/referenced by the US army testing/engineering corps).
Aircraft fighter build tolerances are extremely tight and for the A6M to even pull the G's it did the quality had to be superb. Which it was.
The folly is astonishing.
Luckily the Imperial Japanese Army were too busy being the Imperial Japanese Army.
Brave Japanese pilots!
It looks to be a Japanese take on the P47.
Mid plane🗣️🗣️
🤔
Too few too late
Obsolete due to the introduction of the ME262.
I. See. In. Multiple... photos. And. Film. Clips... on. This. One. The. 4. Blade. Prop... which. You. Do. Mention. Towards. The. End. Of. This. Video... now. This. Makes. Me. Wonder. If. The. Japanese... did. Have. This. Readily. Available. Before. The. U...s.. used. 4. Blades. And. Forced. Induction. On. Most. Of..... If. Not. All.... Of....it's. Long. Range... interceptors... fighters.... and. Escort. Combat. Aircraft... have. A. Nice. Day...
You speak English?
Say what???????
I was a copy of the Republic P-47 as far as systems were concerned, turbo super charging, monster radial, etc etc. Much of the information they used was provided by the Germans from their experiences with captured P-47’s. The Japanese upped the ante as this monster was to be pressurized. This was designed as a B-29 murderer, plain and simple!
Piloted by Syrians?
They simply should have copied the FW 190
They were most of the way to copying a P-47.
@@AndyFromBeavertondifferent manufacturing processes and skills for germans and japanese who had enough disunity between their army airforce already
It might look like a P-47 superficially, but in reality there's virtually no relation aside from being large, radial engined fighters. The P-47 was a bomber escort, and thus had very, very different design characteristics than the Ki-87. The only real design philosophy they share is having a very large airframe - necessary to fit big and heavy turbo-supercharger systems to give good performance at altitude!@@AndyFromBeaverton
There are numerous cases where aircraft or tank copying might have seen like a good option, but in practice it wasn't any faster than doing your own research. Japanese had purchased a Fw 190A-5 and it arrived to Japan in 1943, but it would have still taken years to get that into production. Even copies might not turn out perfect in the first try and Fw190A was against very high flying B-29s. The B-17s and B-24s in Europe flew significantly lower.
Overall in most cases Japanese aircraft industry was a year or two behind, but inability to produce some high quality materials in quantity set them back at least one more year. For example Ki-61 production took so long to start, because they had to figure how to mass produce the engine with far less nickel than intended.
There were few cases were Japanese were ahead, like the rare type supercharger system used in J7W1.
@@aviationdeepdive the p47 could have been used as an interceptor had that been need, just look at the great job it did at ground attack although designed for high altitude combat whether it be intercepting, escorting, or fighter sweeps.
* Pertinent Question old chap
"Why" do you insist on calling EVERY Japanese Fighter here a "Key" this,or "Key" that ????
What happened to what the rest of the English speaking world call it = "Kay Eye" etc
According to the original Japanese word which is where the designation comes from キ, is pronounced "Kee". "Kai" is a misnomer and comes from misunderstanding the way キ, when translated into English, is pronounced.