The D&D movie breaks druids - here’s why
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- I know everybody's going off about the Owlbear, but that's tied to her backstory, as explored in the novelization. It's that 7-shapes-in-as-many-minutes that would REALLY break the game!
What do you think?
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The DM said it was okay, so we all rolled with it.
That's a good one, nice!
Would the movie director be considered as the DM?
Exactly why our party's Eladrin Druid can just produce infinite amounts of any fruit or vegetable she wishes. And not even in a "casts druidcraft" kind of way.
@@JohnWasinger Director of the Movie, or DM for short.
Yeah, it's house rule.
Another theory I saw on reddit is that she's a custom druid who can't cast spell, but burn spell slots to wildshape, and the slot determines the cr.
The realest dnd moment was the speak with dead spell and wasting all the damn questions by accident 😂
I’m sure it’s exactly what my party would do as well
That was so funny, accurate and perfect! I loved that!
I've done that before, one of my favourite moments in the film to be honest
The party I dm'ed for literally did something similar to that once, it was amazing
That or spending an hour planning the questions and everything is a useless answer to the plan
I'm still convinced Ed is a rogue that thinks he's a bard. Those lute sneak attacks were vicious.
That’s what my group was saying!!
I'm pretty sure he started as a bard, multiclassed into rogue then wound up surpassing his original class in rogue levels.
@@kerilithia I can dig it.
He also failed to use any bard abilities during the course of the movie
@@atsukana1704 I'd debate that he was handing out inspiration like it was pocket change all movie, but not even a cantrip of casting? Come on, man.
Agree 100%. I immediately caught that that was too many shifts, but still found it enjoyable.
Yeah, I was like "how high level is she?" Before ultimately deciding it didn't matter and acknowledging, as Ginny said, it's a fun sequence, who cares.
Similarly, there's a moment where a caster probably should have been aware they were counterspelled, RAW, but it was a fun moment, and it doesn't need to strictly adhere to the rules, it just needs to capture the vibe of playing DnD, which I think it did rather well.
Old-school rules: you have x rounds per level wildshaped. They don't have to be consecutive.
All she did was wild shape, no spells, so it evens out
The NPC sheets they made gave her 5, but 5 is still not 7 but its the movies.
Well depends on the level cause if she was level 20 it was not too many
The movie was a game where the DM went, "Y'know what? Go for it" a lot and was just having fun getting his friends into the game after years of talking about it.
E
Plot twist: She’s a 4th Edition Druid and can Wild Shape once per turn as a minor action.
Yes!
She’s specifically called a moon druid tho which is a 5e thing. Honestly it matters not tho it’s still fun af to watch.
New player: Can I bring my 4th edition druid?
DM: yeah, that should keep everyone guessing.
Plot Untwist: she casted Polymorph
@@Ewafingmyth That makes more sense. Tho I don’t know y she would use up all her spell slots during that escape 😂. That also would explain y she’s able to transform into an owlbear.
Also plot untwist? Never heard of that.
It's not a rule break. It's the DM ruling, "Yeah, that's cool." 👍
same as the Owlbear moment😅
I actually only learned that it's "illegal" for a druid to be able to turn into an Owlbear after watching a video posted by the DnD official account saying that it's ok because they said so😂😅
Also the fact that she didn’t cast any traditional spells throughout the movie has me thinking that there is some potential for a homebrew conversion of spell slots to wildshapes. There is precedent for using spell slots to fuel class features (see divine smite) and I don’t think it would break anything to give the Druid access to additional uses of wild shape in an adventuring day, especially if it’s their primary combat ability.
@@PheonixLove Not gonna lie, at my table, if the narrative called for it, and I could workout a way that it didn't break the game, I would allow for it. Maybe a once a day kind of thing where the druid could only call upon it if they went into some kind of berserk mode because they were in an extreme situation.
Yep! It was creative and clearly didnt break the encounter, so why not allow it? Rules lawyers are boring.
Exactly
BTW! the official DnD account released a video explaining that it's ok the druid could turn into an Owlbear because they said so😂😂
which is exactly what a DM would do😅
One of my players wanted a pet owlbear and so overtime I more and more just transformed the owlbear into a beast type monster. Because like fuck it why not.
It was considered a beast in older versions. DnD 5e is the outlier here.
Wait what is an owl bear considered now?
@@JaySwag77 It's a monstosity in 5E. Most "hybrid" creatures are monstrosities.
@@JaySwag77 in 5e it's a Monstrosity.
Agreed, it felt like it was true to the game while making things work for a different medium
The thing is though we've already had 2 full seasons now of Vox Machina which manages to be an entertaining and engaging visual medium while still staying in line with the actual rules and mechanics of the game and the player classes.
There's not really an excuse.
@@Noobie2k7 tv and movies, even though they are both visual mediums, have different rules on how they make storytelling work
There's also the frontier between live action and animation, which again have both pros and cons on how you need to tackle certain things
My friend and I went on for like 15 minutes after watching it about all the little nitpicky things but, at the end of the day, as fun as it is to nitpick, it couldn’t matter less. The movie was super fun and that’s the thing that matters
Most importantly, it felt like D&D. the nonsense the party got up to was believably stuff players would come up with. The player setting off the trap midway through the explanation and then the DM making up another way for them to get across because crap, I didn't have a plan for what to do if they fail at this ("Um, sorcerer, roll Arcana. 8? Great. So you look at this walking stick and you realize...") was a perfect example.
I actually think the party was at level 17 and Doric was using Shapechange (she’s limited in what she can turn into because of her sheltered upbringing). Simon had access to some pretty high leveled spells and seemed pretty certain he could Counterspell the Time Stop indicating he had a 9th level slot.
Also Ed may be credited as a Bard but he took the Valor Bard subclass at level 3 and then went Mastermind Rogue the rest of the way.
According to their statblocks on d&d beyond they're all CR5 except for Xenk, and they're not direct 1:1 equivalents to normal character classes. There's no way any of them were equivalent to level 17. Technically you can counterspell any level spell with a third level slot, so the highest level spell we know Simon cast was Bigby's Hand
@@TheGIJew.he does use Reverse Gravity (by accident but still). Also I think Simon is a Divine Soul Sorcerer (which is why he was asked to heal at the end) and he cast raise dead 4 times. He could have used Sorcery points for extra spell slots or just upcasted the spell.
@@TBoring He didn't cast Raise Dead, He casted Speak With Dead, and he used a reflavored scroll to do it
@@waves_under_starsneeeeeeerd, I was going to say that.
@@TBoring He used a magic item to cast raise dead, and cast reverse gravity because of wild magic.
I totally died at Meteor Swarm + Time Stop. Too many 9th level spellslots.
I thought that was something like Melf's Minute Meteors. Those medium sized explosions aren't really what I'd imagine 40ft radius of 40d6 damage would look like.
Yeah she cast like 20 meteor swarms and I was sitting there with my friend and we both tried not to yell, still a fun movie though
Could be an item?
@@forceoflazy would have been the older school meter swarm which is a lot of smaller attacks instead of the 4 big ones. Probably wasn’t meteor swarm though so idk.
Could have been a scroll...
For GinnyDi here and everyone else, there was a DM on set, helping them with mechanics and rules and such. The studio followed as much as they could, but said that for some things (especially with the Wild Shaping) they took the, "filmography over accuracy" approach. Which, it was totally worth it because, it was a great movie.
On dndbeyond they’ve made doric in a character pack. And on that stat sheet she only has 5 wild shapes per short/long rest. 😂
DM felt bad about the BBEG's Nat 20 perception roll, so Dorric got some leeway during all that
Nerfed her
Yeah, but didn’t she have a different ability that was basically the same, but with a different name?
I just retconned the first rat and the cat morphs. They weren’t really needed, and I just imagined she just kept the fly and hawk morphs for those moments ^_^
Questionable: She could have the Druid 2 Wildshapes from the Druid Class and from her statblock the 5 Bonus Wildshapes as "special action" that include the Owlbear if wanted .. 2 regular + 5 special ability = 7 Wildshapes per Rest
The final battle looked for a second like it was following turn-order, which was awesome. Would love to watch it in slo-mo to see if it actually was or if that was just how the fight choreo looked
It was following in turn order, btw! I think they confirmed it that there were about six seconds between that person's attacks.
@@donovancall7237 That's so cool! I saw it in theaters and was like "I hope that's what I'm seeing!" Thanks for replying!
I also think we are only applying 5e rules to this. There are plenty of 3.5e PrC's that allow this without making a character super powerful.
This!! Also, while I don't think D&D One was necessarily considered for the movie, at 13th level a druid is free to shift forms freely as a bonus action
Thing is, they specifically called her a Moon Druid which would signify 5e in particular... and the only one to have their subclass called out, unless they did call our Sorcerer a wildmagic path
@@Tailon42 Simon said the anti gravity was Wild Magic but didn't necessarily claim that as his identity.
@@XanderHarris1023 Okay but...that's not the same as outright using the words moon druid =)
@@Tailon42 the paladin is Oath of the Ancients since he mentioned the tenet of the ancients. I assume Simon was a wild magic sorcerer since they did say he used wild magic.
That druid escape scene was so much fun that I don't care that it broke the rules. :D
I think it also reflects her panic, where she was just wildly trying things without thinking it through, also she was already spotted as a fly so maybe she wanted something a bit more durable or faster.
Lol yeah my hubby and i were talking about how she HAS to be level 20 to be able to do that immediately after the movie ended haha XD The deer joke was pretty funny though!
She also wildshapes while in full metal armor. She's definitely a Dungeon World's druid
And dungeon world is amazing
@@_ion04 nope, referring to when she enters a displayed full plate and tryes to blend in while fleeing from the castle
Doric had a homebrew subclass that allowed her to sacrifice her Spellcasting feature for infinite wild shapes that include monstrosities like the Owlbear. Doric's DM was cool like that. :)
I would be tempted to take that offer. Wonder if it took a bonus action or a full action ^_^
For casting no spells it had better be a bonus action. It gave her advantage in fights for sure.
Okay I accept this headcanon. The whole time I was sitting there wondering why she hadn't cast a single spell. I like this much more.
@@neebling it has since occurred to me that a subclass that allowed druids to spend spell slots to wildshape (and higher level spell slots to wildshape into non-beasts) would actually be really fun to play
@@ryanroyce like an add on to Moon Druid or its own thing?
I really like how every character got one scene to really got to show off their skills in the movie. That was clearly hers, and it was super fun to watch.
You’re 100% right. I have one. Not a rule break per say (and maybe it’s a leveling thing) but I liked how they dramatized attunement.
Truth!!
100% this! Aside from the tubby dragon, that was my favorite.
Agreed and I got the impression it wasn’t really based on 5e anyway but much more on 3.5. A lot of people complaining about the “rule breaks” aren’t considering other editions, just 5e, but it was a dnd movie, not a dnd 5th edition movie lol
I think it's based on all versions. She's specifically called a Moon druid, which is a 5e thing. They took the best of all worlds...so everything except 4th edition
But also, I'm pretty sure she was using the ONE D&D playtest rules for a druid. With those rules, all of those wildshapes would still just count as one.
It was filmed in 2021, maybe it was the other way around and the new druid rules were inspired by the film?
In her prequel book she does a crazy amount of wild shaping (is that what we call it) to the point I had to go reread what a druid could do in the phb
I totally agree. I play as a druid myself and I love the class, but I still think this scene was super fun. One of my favorites in the movie :D
Ok, yes, but can we talk about how fabulous that green dress is! 💚💚💚
Player: Can I spell slots for Wild Shapes?
DM: Absolutely!
Rip Edgin who's a "bard" but has none of his class abilities :(
The way he casts is a lot more subtle than we expect from watching Scanlan Shorthalt, but he definitely casts several bardic spells.
You're absolutely right, but his whole narrative purpose is that he ties the whole group together as a strategist rather than mechanically during fights- he definitely didn't min-max like the other characters, which is fine, but DID give Bardic Inspiration in how he spoke to each of them, helping them play to their strengths. Everyone asks FOR the manager, nobody asks ABOUT the manager, basically.
You could very easily argue that he used Bardic Inspiration all the time, and even that he used Song of Rest isn't that big of a stretch
Edgin's an NPC. A plot device by the DM to get the group together and guide them through a heist campaign.
I like to think that he more or less abandoned anything to do with being a harper, which included his bard abilities. Keeping his lute just for blending in. So, while he may have cast some things subconsciously, that's why we didn't see any overt castings.
It was also some REALLY REALLY cool special effects!! Loved the wild shapes!
Druids also can't transform into monsters, yet the movie has the druid change into an Owlbear.
you didn't read the video description or the novel about Doric's backstory
the DnD official account addressed this actually.
they said it's possible in the movie because they said so.
pulling a true DM move😂😅
It's going to be officially possible once the new rulings/revamps drop in 2024
in older versions, they were able to.
Owlbears aren't monsters, they're just misunderstood.
I think they should add a special version of wild shape where you can transform at will but, damage should carry over between all forms
The bard wasn’t magic and no I don’t think I it was justified cause it just made him feel kinda lame and pointless. I was waiting for him to be giving everyone some bardic inspiration while they were fighting but nope. And the Druid never used spells she just transformed but I think that’s not a big deal. The bard just made me sad tho :(
You're absolutely right, but his whole narrative purpose is that he ties the whole group together as a strategist rather than mechanically during fights- he definitely didn't min-max like the other characters, which is fine, but DID give Bardic inspiration in how he spoke to each of them, helping them play to their strengths. Everyone asks FOR the manager, nobody asks ABOUT the manager, basically.
Each different canvas of storytelling has it's own ways to work, that's why in videogames you need several bullets to die or several slashes, it's not about accuracy or realism, it's about what fits best
Agreed
It was a good movie
I didn’t like how the bard cast no spells.
On dnd beyond he has spells and I saw an article where it was stated he'll "level up" and have magic if they were blessed enough to be able to do a sequel
I think he's a rogue with a lute
I feel like he was a rouge with a couple levels in bard. If felt like he had the inspiring leader feat as well.
Excellent and spot on opinion!! I’m so glad you understand not to get hung up on the deets, so to speak. It was a fun introduction and still a great fan service. Sometimes, in story telling especially a visually one requires some liberties.
When the seal is broken by the helmet and immediately talk via sending stone right after
I loved how they showed Simon being distracted when he had that mirror image of Ed, where the image started repeating and looking all warped. Totally not how it plays in the game, but hilarious and totally worth the deviation
That was probably my fav sequence in the movie. Really fun camera work.
To me it made complete sense. To allow Simon to be the magical guy in the team they took away Doric's opportunities to use her own, so instead they allowed her to turn her Wild Shapes into her iconic move, her specialty
Also why we see the bard do skill checks, bardic inspiration, and strategy, instead of spellcasting.
@@_ion04 Same reason. If we have magical guy Vs magical guy who's also an strategist and musician, the first one is less interesting, so they left Edgin with his natural charm and sharp mind, and his magic is less... Visual
Druids should be able to have more wild shapes than they do now. Balance it by making the druid drop out of a shape once they have reached the regular hp max of the animal OR the character (whichever comes first) in damage. Allow them to have as many wild shapes before rest as they have levels.
Saw an interesting theory that Doric has so many “wildshapes” and doesn’t cast any spells… because the player asked their DM if they could flavor their spells as if they were turning into animals.
Watched the movie today. It was so good! It had lots of charm and fun moments.
I noticed first that it was during a scene with JUST the druid while they were separate from the rest of the party. I could definitely see a DM choosing to workshop a scene with a player and disregard some rules just to add some flavor on the occasion of "splitting the party" in such a way, especially a druid, rogue, or ranger who's sneakin around could probably just be decided by a couple of sneak, investigation, and maybe acrobatics/athletics rolls
Even in an actual game, sometimes the rule of cool is the way to go, and house rules are always a good way to add balance and make it feel a bit more consistent, as well.
I was counting the number of wild shapes as well!
But it does liven things up and explore possibilities. Similar to Simon using Maximillian’s Earthen Grasp against Sofina’s Mage Hand (first spells that came to mind watching it)
Someone in the comments section of a WatchMojo video talking about the D&D movie commented that it could be that she's a Master of Many Forms subclass from 3.5 which could explain the multiple wild shapes and how she could become an owlbear.
Yes, added to the complete warrior's combat shapeshifter
I like the idea that most of her wildshapes was just reflavoured spells and saving throws.
Like the deer is longstride and the cat is a dex saving throw
The other rule break is that she shouldn't be able to turn into an owlbear
not really. she has a stat block saying she can
I loved the 2 second topdown view in the history montage. It looked like a tabletop map. An
I wish combat and wildshape and everything was more like how it was depicted in the movie
BUT I understand that there is a huge difference between an on screen adaptation and a game with multiple players all with cool things to do
As a DM, I will try to implement more of what was in the movie however, as that's just what I like. Dael from @MonarchsFactory on @GhostfireGaming said maybe a druid could use their spell slots for more wildshapes and I am here for that kind of game
Don't forget the owl bear transformation. Even an archdruid isn't pulling that one off.
Agreed, the way I see it, what we saw was an entire campaign compressed into 2 hours. So I think it's fair to see character abilities compressed into a single scene for cool factor.
Older additions handed out wild shape all the time. With feats and prestige classes, the druid in our 3.5 campaign can wild shape about 17 times a day at level 14.
I think that scene represented exactly what they wanted to do with the OneDnd druid that has a feature to shapeshift multiple times between harmless critters for the duration of 1 wildshape.
I didn't even catch that it was a part of holgas deer joke. Gosh what a good movie.
Potential alternate wild shape rules: choose standard WILD shape with 1/2 level number of HOURS in the SAME Beast, OR WILDER shape with level number of ROUNDS allowing shifting forms each round as a bonus action.
Thoughts? Either way im using it has a DM for future games, would love some balance/hole-poking suggestions
A nice fan theory is that the table playing this game has just flavored her spells into wildshape like a cat has featherfall, deer having longstrider, etc
Owlbeat isn’t a beast but a monstrosity.
I get that it’s an iconic monster, but god damn, there are also a shit ton of cool besties in the Monster Manuals
The movie was the ultimate demonstration of the famous "Rule of Cool"
The new rules say she can burn a spell slot for an extra wildshape. And pretty sure Sofina had locate creature on Doric, so she needed the different shapes to keep cover between them.
Another rule break was the post credit scene where the guy raised with speak with the dead was still there waiting for the question but the spell only lasts 10 minutes, but stayed up because rule of cool
A voice of benevolent sanity. Thank you.
Didn't notice the wild shape thing, I was questioning the owlbear shape, more.
In one of my games I allowed a player playing as a moon druid to change into a new animal by expendind a spell slot. Their current shape's HP carried over to the new shape (unless the base HP of the new shape was lower), but they could still use combat wild shape HP recovery. They just wanted to be able to shape into animals a lot and didn't care about casting spells.
I was sitting in the theatre counting off all of her wild shapes and thought, “what level is she? This can’t be right!”
In my mind Doric talked with their DM and came to the agreement that they were taught the ability to use spell slots as wild shape slots if they were out!
Sofia had cast two concentration spell at the same time. Which breaks the dnd rules. Bigbys hand and Resilient Sphere
There was a green-flame blade cast, i believe...Except no incantations, and green flame blade is instant, but this one went on for a good 30 sec.
That's completely fair! In the game it's about making a story together and having people feel like they are comparably strong. For telling the story after the fact you want to flex what was good and what made the story fun.
Everyone testing Simon as the only spell caster cause Chris Pine was a Bard and Doric should be able to cast spells
thank you! i find it soo weird that ppl call out inaccuracies in movies when you wouldn’t want to watch a movie that’s only accurate
i never played a druid and after the DND movie I actually sis a one short playing a druid and loved it so much!
Rule of cool on the wild shape into an owl bear.
Someone had a really cool interpretation that she's reflavoring druid spells as Wild Shapes
Can we take a moment to appreciate how stunning Ginny looks? 😊
Honestly the only hic i had, i think she should have had some sort of magic/connection with nature, maybe some healing with herbs and whatnot
Just got back from my second viewing of the film, loved it even more the second time. And I totally agree, this scene was awesome, even if it wasn't entirely accurate!
Almost EVERYONE target's the obvious Owlbear shapechange, I'm for it honestly.
I also saw some people theorizing that it was a custom thing where in exchange for infinite wild shapes she couldn't cast any magic. Throughout the whole movie her only tactic is fighting with weapons or using wild shape she never casts a single spell or cantrip. It's definitely op but that could be a fun character build.
Homebrew idea, can wildshape as much as you like, but no spells.
You're right tbh! I love your blouse, it's gorgeous
"accuracy shouldn't be the goal of an adaptation" TAKE THAT GAMERS! GINNY DI HAS SPOKEN!
I liked how they used dnd as a basis or their own story and characters rather than a strict code they had to abide by.
When the red wizard (who’s name I forget) cast meteor swarm and time stop without resting. By the rules it’s impossible to cast two 9th level spells without rest like that, but it just went to show how powerful she was.
My Gf pointed out that there is a homebrew rule about burning spell slots for wild shape. I've heard I before but I think at the time our druid didn't really need it for me to dive into the way it works.
It felt like a “rule of cool” moment.
Honestly I loved all the little breaks in the rules. After all, nothing beats The Rule of Cool
Yes! A new medium means a new way to tell the story. I watch Lord of the Rings knowing Peter Jackson removed Tom Bombadil cause he wasn't essential to the plot, but he mixed him with Treebeard to compensate. That trilogy was a great way to show how you can love and respect the source material while still trying to make it your own.
LOTR is one of my favorite books and movie trilogies of all time, and I believe that the movies are such a faithful adaption of the book(s) because of stuff like this.
This movie was the best way to show D&D and that the rule of cool is valid and I’m all for it.
my headcanon is Doric is playing a homebrew druid variant that trades her ability to cast spells for more wild shape versatility.
Interesting note, lots of people judge the DnD movie based on 5e, but there are earlier editions.
In 4e, wild shape was an At-Will power, and owlbears are specifically mentioned as a possible wild shape appearance.
Polymorph is a spell as well that would have a similar if not the same effect that she could have used in conjunction woth her wildshape
Also I heard in the dnd masters guide it says something along the lines of take the rules with a grain of salt or as a baseline, it’s entirely within the realm to give a druid unlimited wild shapes, and me, a druid, was also confused watching the movie like “I’m supposed to get more than 2?”
She was using one D&D rules using BA to briefly change forms.
I enjoyed the escape sequence, it looks stunning. I just would have loved for her to have more character development.
You're so on point about adaptations
Fun note! If you have a player who wants to be a shapeshifter the way Doric does in the D&D movie, there are actually other TTRPG systems that allow for this in really fun and exciting ways! Masks: A New Generation is a great place to start if you have players who want this kind of gameplay.
I was rather upset when the bard’s Enthrall actually turned out to be a sorcerer spell :/
In regards to those wildshapes and speakwithdeads, I would’ve totally houserule’d some Rule of Cool and refund my players the extra charges. The resource expenditure doesn’t super affect the outcome, and allows more cool stuff to happen.