Hey everybody! Just wanted to clarify something about this video. (Copy + pasting most of this from the community tab) I was very nervous about publishing our discussion of Rain Code because it is very unlike my usual "brand". This video is much longer, it's with one of my good friends, it's very spontaneous (obviously), and it's probably the most negative I've been about a game in a long time without doing much "research". Even with my formal Ultra Despair Girls review, I took a lot of time to fact check myself and reconsider things from multiple angles before drafting my final script. I didn't do that with this Rain Code video, and it wasn't because I didn't care about it. But my (un)official "So I Just Played" series that I've been doing is meant to focus on my initial, gut reactions without them being swayed by other people's arguments or post-gameplay research. Already in the two weeks since Phos and I recorded this video, I've looked more into other people's arguments (thank you guys
An extremely minor nitpick of your review, but the explanation given to the residents of Kanai Ward as to why they have pink blood now is not because the rain changes it once it’s outside the body, but that the rain somehow effected their bodies in a way that changed their blood color entirely. And tbh, if I was in their position I don’t think I would question it too hard either, especially not three years after the fact. Imagine waking up after missing a week of time, to the city completely destroyed, and with constant rain bearing down on you?? Yeah sure, I’ll accept the pink blood, wouldn’t be the weirdest thing to happen to me. I would have other shit to focus on, like rebuilding my home and trying to survive under a newly appointed police state.
Oh no, we understood the game's explanation, we just still felt it was very unreasonable for a city's public to believe what they were told. More importantly, we felt it was unrealistic for none of the outsiders from Yuma, Shinigami, and Halara and the others, not to notice or mention it. Presumably, all the master detectives were there to investigate the great mystery, but we have no idea what any of them were doing when not helping Yuma with whatever shit he was up to at the time, and it seems unreasonable to us that no one from Kurumi to Yakou ever mentioned the blank week which started all of this until the final chapter. Like, Halara seriously never asked Yakou why all the blood was pink? Or if she did, and Yakou told her it was caused by the rain that strangely never stops, that Halara seriously believed that that was true? Even characters in power who don't seem to know that they are homoculi, like Yomi. Yomi seriously never questioned why his blood is pink now? The scientists like the deaf guy, they never questioned why the rain doesn't stop or why all their blood is pink? Because only Makoto knows any of that stuff. Makoto and the UG were responsible for sealing off the city to keep all the homunculi inside and limit investigation into it, so Yomi had nothing to do with the city being sealed off, but never questioned it despite thinking that he was in charge? It all just stretches our suspension of disbelief. I personally have a very low tolerance for stretching my disbelief.
Playing Rain Code, I was really hoping the big twist wasn't tied to the mystery filling in those meat buns, but as soon as I saw the conveyor belt in the restricted zone, I had to take a moment. I think I liked the story more because I hadn't played any of the Danganronpa games beforehand. After playing DR 1,2, and V3, I can see all the patterns the devs stuck to.
This was my first Kodaka game that I played, literally the first time I held a switch (thanks sis), and perhaps it was just experiencing the controls at hand, but I liked it. If I were an onlooker like I intended on the beginning looking at other people’s let’s plays, I’d more likely have even more complaints to the game than I do, but going in blind relying on no one but myself to think through the mysteries added onto my experience. Yuma might be a very bland character on the outside, but my butter fingers ramming him into the wall every 6 seconds and his apologetic and shy self made me scream in my mind “OH GOD I’M SO SORRY YUMA”. I was truly growing with Yuma all the way. The voice acting is immaculate, and I loved everyones voice work into the game. I will say everything I’m hearing from the both of you, I had also thought of those as they played out in the game, but the hands on experience is very much needed.
EDIT: Yes, there is a shorter version coming out. It will be spoiler free. Sooo what did you guys think of Rain Code? I’m interested to learn what other people think of it!
Here's my thing. SPOILERS INBOUND. Raincode's theme revolves around the truth, its ramifications and trust in general. Firstly, the whole reason Yuma made the pact with Shimigami was to help find the truth behind Kanai Ward. He placed his trust in Shimigami that she'd be able to help Yuma when his memories were gone. Next, Yuma before he lost his memories and afterwards are two separate people. Yuma had to work from the ground up in order to help develop his abilities as a detective again. Yuma loosing his memories forced him to trust others, even if it was at a risk, and that lead him to essentially break the one rule he had for himself when he had his memories. "Discard your emotions to reach a perfect resolution". This mentality was flawed, and Pre Story Yuma knew that, but when you've been doing something for so long, its not easy to mend your ways. Thats why he made the pact, and allowed himself to loose his memories. Putting himself in the position of a rookie allowed him to lean on others, express himself, and rember his reasoning for being a detective to begin with. Finding the truth and telling the truth can have consequences, and its ok to struggle with them. Yuma through Shimigami killed a priest trying to answer the prayers of his people by killing others, 3 high-school girls getting revenge from their best friend's death, a swimmer trying to rob the banks in order to get out of the hell hole he was in, and Yuma's own mentor. Yuma every single time had to stuggle with the ramifications of the truth, but it just helped push him towards the truth of the Ward. If you can't find the truth on your own, its ok to have others help you. Yuma had Halara, Desahiko, Fubuki, and Vivia's help in this journey, and it was thanks to their efforts that Yuma solved it all. Thats My take anyway.
I think that’s a good take! And I can see why that works for you. One of my sticking points with that, though, is that the themes of truth/trust are also, arguably, quite prominent in DRV3. So it’s a little difficult for me to not see it as a rehashing of what has already been done before and with a cast of characters I didn’t know as well/have as a strong a connection to. But I really do like your interpretation! Thanks for sharing it 💚
@@thetiniestleaf That's understandable. I understand your point and criticism. Personally speaking I don't think it's a bad idea to rehash themes, especially when you consider this as it's own title. This isn't Danganronpa. Sure it's made by Kodaka, but this game in my opinion should be evaluated by it's own merits Regardless I personally appreciate you conversing with me over the topic.
I think my biggest issue with this video boils down to: this isn’t a visual novel. While not purposely, y’all chose to play this game in like the worst way possible. The script is the script, and I agree, it’s got it’s bad moments, but you missed so much of the atmosphere that I love. The characters are voice acted, and the voice actors add so much life to these characters! The gameplay is more than just reading text, and even though there’s a lot of text, this is still a game, not a novel. The script relies on having the game around it. And I think that you might have a better opinion of the game if you actually let it show you everything on the tin. The soundtrack added so much for me, I cannot imagine this world without it. I’m not saying you should play it again, because you two obviously really didn’t enjoy the experience you did have, but so many of your points deal with one aspect of the game. It’s a big aspect, and I agree with most of your points, but perhaps you might’ve been more lenient with the characters and the world had you experienced it the same way 90% of other people did. Love your stuff, and I don’t want this to seem too critical, because I did enjoy your discussion! This was just itching at me. As someone who works in game design, stories have to work either narratologically or ludologically in my books, and for me Rain Code hit a weird art vibe with the character and sound designs, the music, and the overall art direction that Danganronpa could never reach, even though all those games have a much better story. Again, love your videos, and thanks for the new one!
That definitely is my biggest regret with our experience and I absolutely would’ve changed it if I could. Because the parts I did hear were very good and listening to the music while editing was wonderful. It’s actually the main reason I would consider replaying this game in the future… as soon as I can play it on PC :’)
Personally I disagree with this sentiment. First, to clarify some things, we were exaggerating the circumstances for simplicity. I have heard almost everything in the full game myself, idk if Tiny has, but I have. I've seen multiple LPs and streamers go through pretty much all parts of the game. I've heard all the audio. While we were playing it together, we had audio for, like, half of the game, and in some instances if we had a particular moment we wanted to hear something, I'd remove the switch from the port and just play the audio straight from the device. We knew what everyone generally sounded like, and we'd had audio for the first 2 full chapters so we were also familiar with the style of delivery the VAs had for the line readings. It wasn't ideal, but it's not like we just had no idea what we were missing out on. If I felt that we were making statements in bad faith, I'd admit to it readily. Speaking for myself, I listen to audiobooks while playing games, so I play a LOT of games with no audio, or only putting in audio at certain points out of curiosity or if I think it's important. I usually play the first 2 hours or so of a game with audio in, and then if it's not doing much for the experience for me, I'll go back to listening to my audiobooks. You're absolutely right that every element of a game makes up the overall experience, and we might've been in a slightly better mood if we had the intended music on the whole time. That being said, I'm of the opinion that the VA doesn't save any of the dialogue, and in some cases it makes it worse. The problem we have with the dialogue is the same problem I have with the VA: it's too anime. It lacks subtlety or nuance. It's in your face. It's not gentle or complex. Even if we had audio the whole time, we still would've been cutting all the lines off early because we were blazing through most of the dialogue anyways, since most of the lines take a lot of words to express very little actual information, both explicit or implicit. In my opinion, the chill music of the overworld is pleasant, but I don't think any of the performances left a positive impression on me. I'm not saying they're bad, they just wouldn't have made us feel any better about the game in any significant way. I also listened to the audio for chapter 5 and it made me want to die from cringe because of how corny and cliche the music gets during the final magic sword battle of anime. I think some games, yeah, audio is super important, but I've been around the block and I can see when something doesn't have a lot of depth. I skipped some dialogue because I could tell that it wouldn't add anything and it was shallow; I feel the same about the audio we didn't hear. There's a lot of ways that people can "play something wrong" so to say. Any state of mind, any specific expectations one has going into a piece of media. Hell, even just playing with a friend makes the experience we had and the way we consumed and talked about it wildly different than if we had played by ourselves. I'm not ignorant of all of those factors, I just have a certain duality of acceptance of it. I know that there's no "perfect" way to consume something, and that any infinite number of things can affect my experience with something, some of which I can control, some of which I can't, and some of which are just up to random causality. At the same time, I keep in mind my biases and the circumstances of my experience while thinking about things. This isn't a very serious video, we didn't even research anything before making this, it's not some clean official review, it's just us joking around about the game. But even so, I'm completely aware of things I could've done differently, my biases and circumstances at play, the benefit of the doubt, etc, and I'm still confident in the observations that I've made, even while taking all of that into account. In this video, we don't say which things we seriously think, and which things we only loosely feel. We don't specify which things are major criticisms, and which are just little nitpicks. It's not an argumentative video, so it doesn't have that rigid structure. Some things we said in it, we're aware we might be mistaken about or we have "soft" opinions on. Other things we have very firm opinions on and we're very confident about. We didn't clarify which were which, although you might be able to tell from out cadence. The things that we're confident in our feelings about, the big stuff, almost certainly wouldn't have changed if our playing experience was more ideal. Maybe it would've, there's always a chance, but I'm very confident it wouldn't've. I hope that explanation makes sense! Thanks for the comment!
1 thing in terms of 1 off characters and why they work in ace attorney and why they don't in this is the mental umderstanding of the plot structure. You know that Ace Attorney will be a series of 1 offs, and that is what the plot is about after all. Your objective as Phoenix or whoever else is just to do your next job and help clients. Thats the whole point. Rain Code has all the big mysteries like the major Kanai Ward secret and Yuma's memories, and these are your primary objectives in no uncertain terms, but then you just work on cases like the clocktower murder and it feels like a huge distraction. It's then even more unsatisfying at the end of that case when you don't do amything, Yomi just shows up and says he knows Seth is corrupt and kills him and lets the falsely accused father go. He obviously would've done that regardless of Yuma being here or doing anything, espevially since Yuma didn't even solve that Seth was paid off by the church. Ace Attorney also has a very soap opera structure to it, where it escalates in tension and corniness as a case goes on until you're really into it, whereas in Rain Code, you there's never any tension because you always have the option to dive into the labyrinth if you need to, amd even in the labyrinth, there's very little sense of stakes or pressure, since you can just go through the place at your own pace and it feels like there's no threat and no rising action at all. Ace attorney has more likable fun characters than Boy from chapter 1 or Waruna from chapter 2, because Ace Attorney isn't trying to be edgy, it can just let the cast be fun and not try to turn it into an ineffective emotional or moral appeal. Rain Code suffers because it wants you to care, but it takes a lot more for us to care about characters who seem really flat and who we barely know, especially when its so clear that we, Kokohead, have no authority or ability to fix any situation. Chapter 0 we do nothing and get saved by Yakou even though that makes no sense. Chapter 1 Yomi just comes in and solves it. Chapter 2 is the only time where the authority listens to us, so it's the only chapter where Yuma does anything productive, and that's the fucking chapter where he murders 3 girls. Chapter 3, Yakou and the others just show up having already solved the crime and captured the swimmer guy. Chapter 4, Makoto shows up and ousts Yomi. Chapter 5, I guess Yuma convinces Makoto to tell the people that they're weird zombies, but even then, the problem was the kidnapping people and eating human meat, and that's just handwaved away in the epilogue. Furthermore, a point we forgot to mention, chapter 5 is the only time where we learn anything at all about the plot, aside from Kurumi's brief mention of homunculus in chapter 2, which she claims she got from her deceased grandfather. Everything else is learned in chapter 5, and the process of learning it is ENTIRELY Makoto just revealing it directly to you. Yuma doesn't "figure out" anything at all, he just wakes up after having been kidnapped arbitrarily by Makoto, and Makoto leaves a deliberate trail of evidence that just tells Kokohead everything. I can't overstate how annoying and worthless it is that the core plot is just solved because the villain just decided to tell you everything right at the end. His detective work did nothing the entire game. So the end result is, it's hard to feel any attachment to any of the characters, not just because they're mostly 1 offs, we also don't care about Yakou, Yuma, or Shinigami either.
You guys touch on this briefly but apart from the weak characters the thing that annoys me the most about the game is the lack of a theme - or rather the complete abandoning of the theme they were building. I'm talking about Shinigami being the death penalty. Spoilers from here on. I would be completely fine with Shinigami being a bad guy and a hypocrite, because all throughout the game I was thinking they were building toward the fact that the mystery labyrinth both does not help anybody and actively just kills people without any consideration of what the culprit did or their motivations. Shinigami is so very clearly a bad influence on the world in general, and yet despite that, for some reason the game expects us to be super sad when the literal murder god whose only purpose is to kill and never helps anybody gets left behind? Oh yes I'm so unhappy that the metaphor for the death penalty has to go away, how sad. It's especially so weird because Kokohead, as bland as he is, has exactly one defining characteristic: He wants to make everyone happy by solving mysteries. And yet he never stops to think about the fact that all he has ever done in the game is kill people. You guys point this out too: Solving the crimes does not actually help anybody, and the point is just never used to say anything. This is especially egregious during chapter 2: Yuma gives very little token pushback to Shinigami pushing him to murder 3 high school girls. As you guys point out, if murder in revenge as the girls did is not justice, then Kokohead murdering the 3 of them in retaliation is most definitely even worse. If Yuma was a real character he would have at the very least tried to stop Shinigami from being his accessory to murder, especially since he knows at that point he could exit the mystery labyrinth(though he does not know what that entails). Honestly would have loved to get some kind of choice there to have Yuma just not want to keep going with the investigation and quitting the labyrinth as some form of early game over because he can't square murdering 3 high schoolers with his morals. I dunno if that would have fixed something but something should have happened there. Apart from that I have two little points: 1. A shame you guys heard little of the soundtrack, it was very much the best part of the game 2. I like Halara a lot and feel they would have worked fine as the default detective that's actually competent if the rest of the cast were better written.
The game's theme was about the morality of pursuing the truth and the negative consequences of doing so, not a bland commentary on the death penalty. Your reasoning for Shinigami being a "death penalty" metaphor lacks any compelling evidence to convince me that the game was intentionally going for that. She's just a death god. Monokuma from DR wasn't a death penalty metaphor just because he executed students, so I don't see how that's the case here for Shinigami. The claim that Yuma never thinks about the consequences of his actions isn't even an opinion; it's just factually wrong. He has multiple inner monologues about the morality of his actions. It is the basis of his character arc. How you somehow didn't notice this is beyond me when the game spells it out to you. Also, to claim that the Mystery Labyrinths cause nothing but pain is fundamentally wrong. Most of the Mystery Labyrinths are vital in finding out important plot details (Chapter 4 especially), as well as helping the heroes avoid being arrested by the Peacekeepers or helping to prove others innocent. The point of the labyrinths is that they have both positive and negative effects, and to claim they're only negative is just black-and-white thinking.
I really liked the game honestly. I loved that the first case subverted all expectations and killed off the detectives we assumed would be there the whole game. Case 2 was probably one of my favourite cases out of any DR game as well. I also love that most lines are voice acted and the pacing is a bit faster than the DR games especially before the murders take place. Maybe it’s just my adhd but sometimes I’d get bored playing the daily life sections in DR. I really liked the ending/final chapter of the game too. I thought it was much more interesting than revealing “it was all a game or fiction” and bring back junko a million times lol. I found all the mysteries labyrinths, engaging and fun to play for the most part. Basically playing it just made me happy and scratched my DR itch without repeating some of my main criticisms about those games. Don’t get me wrong though, the game does have its flaws. The detectives absolutely should’ve had a bigger role outside of their chapter so we could get more attached to them. Yuma was a bit boring and shemigami was fun but it definitely got annoying hearing her call kurumi flat all the time. I also felt like there should have been a “bad ending” to make ur decision at the end of the game more impactful. DR2 > Raincode > DR1 > DRV3 > UDG
@@thetiniestleaf i already bought the steam version with the two games, but i have other games to play like the great ace attorney yakuza and other games so i'm reserving it for when i at least beat the great ace attorney
For me, being so used to Kodaka's writing, I thought this game was beautiful and I really, personally, feel that it surpasses Danganronpa, just a little bit. Kodaka continues to write excellent characters when he wants to, Halara is well written, more nuanced and not reduced to ONE specific thing, it's more than that and that's perfect. I thought Desuhiko was also excellent, I mean, he's not like Teruteru at all, and he's someone funny. He's the clear example that this time, Kodaka didn't limit himself to just using tropes and not going out of the box. Desuhiko is more likable than Mineta from BNHA or even Roshi from DBZ. Then there's Fubuki and Vivia who are my favourites along with The Master. On the other hand, I agree, Wendy was gorgeous in design but in personality... fuck, how generic, kind yeah, but generic. I hope she's better in the sequel. And yes, Hajime is the best protagonist of the trilogy of DR, facts. The fanservice didn't bother me either, and I think it was even more elegant and sensual compared to Mikan's crappy and nasty pratfalls. Shinigami really looked like a model... Which makes sense since Kodaka did it on purpose, since it's a clear reference to Junko, as he said in an interview, that this time he wanted to write a character like Junko as an ally instead of an antagonist. Anyway, entertaining video as always, keep it up and take care! «3
I wish that they gave Kurumi the ability to fight or have some self defense skills considering how she's the only informant in a corrupt city with weird mysteries and brutalities from the Peacekeepers daily, instead of only running or just standing there scared whenever Yuma got jumped in Chapter 5. Like ik she's a high school girl, but she doesn't seem to be prepped for this at ALL. Like did her Grandpa not give much pointers or stuff besides the info he gathered?
@@daisanity6457 I wish that they explored more on fortes, because although it’s only the detectives (plus you know who) who have them, it would’ve been epic if a murder occurred due to a supernatural power and we’d go on a whole manhunt within the labyrinth to figure out who the hell was hiding a secret power, or when a character’s forte is not only overpowered, but it’s ability affects the real world far greater. It does seem that fortes based on the existing information we have from them in the game is similar to the quirks in BNHA, fortes can be genetic as according to Fubuki in chapter 3 before we go into the mystery labyrinth, errors in time are a usual thing in her family. The only difference is that people with fortes are the minority. I’m a writer if you hadn’t noticed already, but I managed to already delulu a “few” OC detectives and their forte so let me explain one of them. After a little thought through, I made her a very distant relative to Fubuki because of her power. Time pause: on impulse, the world around you immediately stops and everything and everyone is frozen in place. People, animals, vehicles, rain, air, and even gravity. On the contrary, you can move, but you can’t feel your pulse either. When time starts again however, for every bit you moved in that suspended time-space, your heart will immediately make up for it the very moment it starts again. In context, when she stops time, she is still able to move around and interact with physical objects that aren’t live in itself (can’t start a fire, or use digital devices like a smartphone), and could even investigate at different angles (upside down on the ceiling, or at an elevated space where an air duct is)as an anomaly, so when she begins time again she would either achieve a completely successful investigation within an area she isn’t allowed to be in, go into places that where physically impossible to pass (20f distance platforms), or be able to retrieve objects that could not have been accessible to before. If she and a buddy were avoiding incoming objects, she would be able to just drag and pull their body out of the way like a feather. And when I say she becomes an anomaly, her DNA doesn’t actually register onto anything she touches, so she’s able to quite literally walk into and out of places “without a trace”. The side effect of that forte is as mentioned, for once time begins again, depending on how much she moved within the pause, she would instantly go into cardiac arrest after having her heart beat 60 times a *second*. So despite the great power, unless it totally necessary, she needs to rely on making short changes or checks within time pause as to not make routine visits to emergency care.
It’s hard to say, because I’ve seen a lot of DR fans who loved Rain Code. However, I personally don’t think so. It wasn’t as funny, the characters weren’t as memorable, and I really think the gameplay is dull. It would be more worth it to watch someone else play it!
@@thetiniestleafif i am honest, i agree. While i am currently play dangan 2 and only played v3 and saw buiju mike playing the first game, this game is super lame looking, it lacks the identity and the originality of the danganronpa games. The only things that raincode does not have that were problems in the danganronpa games (that i know of since i have only watched buiju mike play till the nailman chapter) were: •fetisisation of csa victims •transphobic kaito in the japanese script •poor handling of did especially with korejego where even in the univerese of v3 there was even less point to add that aspect of the chareacter with his infatuation for his sister •eerily casual references to incest •and killing tenko (she could have changed and developed 8nto a better character, i promise😢) But all of these remarks, are kind of common sense.
I didn’t like the side quests at all. Collectibles were just as annoying to miss as in Danganronpa except that here they have actual value, which was annoying. As for the main game itself, the first two cases were really good, the third was interesting in that it reminded me of the Shapeshifting Detective FMV game, the fourth and fifth felt really frustrating to “solve”, and the sixth was really interesting. As “out there” as the big twist was, I do personally feel like it’s the best Danganronpa-style twist they’ve done yet, because it’s such a whiplash but also a unique and imaginative situation. It really felt like Makoto was actually a redeemable villain because as bad as his actions were, he was protecting everyone from a much worse situation.
In all honesty the only reason I’m still (kind of) part of the Rain Code fandom is that I got way too invested in the game before it even came out. It’s a case of “buying something before you actually know what you’re getting” if you catch my drift. Also, I’m not sure if you guys talked about the voice acting much, (I know you mentioned you went into it without audio) but the English voice actors did a great job with their performances despite the source material being so iffy. Especially Shinigami’s VA, they deserve so much better imo. That said, they also cast two notoriously problematic VA’s (K*ren Str*ssman and D*rek St*phen Pr*nce) in secondary roles, which really rubbed me the wrong way. They also made everyone pronounce the name Karen like “Kuh-ren”, which did not work bc no English speaking person would naturally pronounce it that way lol But yeah, it’s actually kinda refreshing to know I’m not the only one who had mixed feelings on this game. Rain Code had such a great premise and potential, but it falls flat, and I couldn’t help but be disappointed.
I loved the idea, but the world felt a little empty which feels like a missed opportunity. It was okay, but if it has a sequel id love the city to feel more alive
Great, fun little talk! Since you asked for thoughts on Rain Code: I didn't enjoy it, and it's frustrating to say cuz I was certain it'd scratch my Dangan-itch. I'd chalk it up to the writing, characters, and the twist/mystery aspects falling flat for me. 1) Writing - Like Phos mentioned in the video, I didn't find much of the script interesting or funny, it didn't grab my attention. The only two lines I can remember laughing at were Desuhiko's reaction when you switch into the second disguise in Chapter 2, and when he soliloquies about how he struggles to not be evil with his Forte and Yuma just shuts him down over how weird he's acting. Morals and themes: It's super surprising to me that they never question the authority of the WDO, or how Yuma never questions if he should be using the Mystery Labyrinth at all, post Chapter 2? Then when they suddenly jump into the "zombie/undead/RE-esque biohazard" genre, there's no existential dilemma about how the Kanai Ward homunculi killed all the originals, and have been cannibals for the past 3 years? The epilogue happens and there's no existential crisis or crisis of morality, they just get over it quickly? I feel like the Epilogue gestures at saying "they're just like humans", but they're demonstrably *not*. They're more than human. They don't die, have a zombie mode, and suffer no psychic damage from their true nature and what they've been doing for their existence. The game doesn't investigate that at all. Oh, and the Forte integration was kinda crappy? Fubuki's is just you can re-do a FTE if you fail (You can already do this in Chapter 0). Vivia's... they just gave up and now they're in a really lame 3D Mario platformer for a sequence. 2) Characters - WOO BOY were they flat, and at times inconsistent? Being stuck with Shinigami was so frustrating as she has two modes of "be morbid" or "hate on the woman nearest to Yuma", and there's never any good zingers from her? Her insults were so repetitive, too. Another reviewer pointed out how misogynistic her insults leaned, and how much they read like a script for a 2000s teen drama, and I think that's the perfect summary. Yakou is someone I want to single out as I just look at him and chapter 4 and think: "This scenario exists because they felt like they needed a surprising, emotionally resonant penultimate chapter death like in DR". But Yakou just isn't established enough for me to care about, even though Yuma cares a lot. Like you mentioned, there's three depicted scenes of times spent with Yakou: When he saves us upon arrival, when we cooked for him, and when we ran an errand for him... that's it. And I just don't believe he would've followed that plan, no matter how "Kira-God Mode" Makoto/Yomi might be. This is a cowardly man, who in Chapter 1 swears he'd "never turn the detectives in to help himself". Come Chapter 4, he's a steel-nerved assassin who undertakes a suicide mission that ensures his detectives will be trapped at the scene, and certainly will be blamed for it. (And they would've gotten killed had Makoto not interfered, something Yakou couldn't have accounted for.) His motive that completely flips his disposition and values around? Revenge for his... dead wife, who is not even named. 3) The Twists/Mysteries - Speaking of that, a whole lot of Rain Code just felt... Familiar to me. A dead wife being the motive for a good guy gone rogue. A staged suicide where the victim's handiness gives the game away. Things of that nature, the mysteries felt very "first idea". It's honestly kind of shocking to me to think that a "locked room" *with a large vent in it* and a "locked room" that has a window that *automatically locks when shut* were even presented as being "mysterious locked rooms scenarios" and somehow made it to the final draft. Then those twists. Wooey. This loops back to the script, but rather than being inevitable, they were just obvious: I called that all the Detectives on the train were going to die immediately after talking to Aphex because of how expository his intro was. I called the rain being a form of mind control when Yakou said it "does something to their bodies" in the Prologue. I called the "Soylent Green/Brave New World" twist in Chapter 1 when they hit on how everybody in Kanai loved meat buns. So on and so forth. The twists didn't feel fresh. The "the failed homunculi are basically zombies" thing is just... Never explained as to why being defective means you operate on zombie logic? It felt like the writers really wanted a zombie/Invasion of the Body Snatchers ending, but none of the moral questions the game built up beforehand linked into that? It's zombie iconography, but none of the zombie genre moral questions about survival and humanity and "who are the real monsters" etc. So yeah... Not too hot of a game. Props I will give: Loved Chapter 2 (Outside of Shinigami's odd transphobic quips). The buildup to the murder, the setting and ecosystem of the drama club, the investigation where you navigated three cliques: That's something that couldn't have been done in DR, and I hope Rain Code 2 really studies that chapter for their next attempt. I felt like I really got a sense of who Kurane, Waruna, and Yoshiko were, something none of the other suspects (And even other detectives!) got. Hope Kodaka sticks to his recent interview he gave where he stated he hopes to revisit DR, and possibly develop it alongside Rain Code as two franchise pillars within Spike Chunsoft. I think it was the script that went wrong, not necessarily the premise.
In terms of characters that’s why the gumshoe gabs exist, they’re like the free time events of this game. Also I think the reason that shinigami acted so terrible was because she knew that she and Yuma would part ways so she and Yuma wouldn’t get attached to each others
The epilogue does a lot more damage than good for the game. The whole game, we're told arguments from characters like Makoto and Vivia that the reason they shouldn't reveal hard truths is because they're too difficult. Makoto hides the secret of Kanai Ward simply because he doesn't want them to know and suffer for knowing what they are, in some vague way. We're told that the great world mystery is the disappearing death row inmates. We know they're dying and being turned into meat. But then the epilogue and ending, 1, Yuma returns to being Number One after choosing not to use Shinigami's power in the end to kill Makoto, so it begs the question of why he ever thought he needed her power to begin with, and it also removes the importance of any point at which Yuma is learning to be a detective, because nothing he learns is relevant if he just goes back to being the best detective who, according to the tone and script, was already perfect and had no flaws to overcome. It removes the consequence of needing human meat for the people, and they're all just happy. Violent crime is apparently not a problem anymore, despite chapter 1 proving how many people want others to die in this city. Fascism is gone. All the arguments for why Makoto did what he did are gone, they meant nothing. No one seems upset to learn the truth, they somehow had a scientific breakthrough and now don't even need human meat anymore. Ever single moral about truth even in the face of difficulty meant nothing. All the difficulty just magically vanished.
12:40-13:07 The irony of that phrase coming out of a tomato... 22:40-22:46 You're saying that in front of Bob the Tomato!🤣 On a more serious note, I did start watching gameplay of this game when it came out, but I pretty much stopped in the middle of Chapter 1, not even getting to the Mystery Labrynth. When I was watching the gameplay for Danganronpa, I was so invested that I if I didn't have to work or sleep, I would have not put it down. For all three of the mainline games. But this game... I'm having trouble even picking it back up. I was invested for Chapter 0, but when I got to Chapter 1... I just couldn't bring myself to care enough to keep going.
Okay, I’ve seen the video and I think a lot of your specific criticisms regarding perceived plot holes have to do with not having skipped over a lot of dialogue.
I agree that the ending is predictable. But I really liked how Rain Code tackled the theme of "harsh truth vs beautiful lies", which I didn't like as much in V3. Spoilers ahead... To me, this narrative portrays a much better example of why lies can be so endearing, compared to the truth. Although life in Kanai Ward was really freaking weird, the people pretended everything was okay, because thinking too much would raise questions that they didn't want answered. Why is it raining all the time? Why is our blood pink? Why are we not allowed to contact the outside world? Why does everybody love meat buns so much? Everyone dismisses those concerns because it's easier than searching for a harsh truth. And what a cruel truth it was. Not only were they not human, not only did they unknowingly kill all the humans in Kanai Ward, not only do they become blood-thirsty zombies when exposed to sunlight, but their favorite food was human flesh. The tragedy of that city is soul-crushing. Makoto did everything in his power to shelter the people of Kanai Ward from the truth. He believed that trapping the homunculi in lies would keep them safe. But what it really did was allow Amaterasu Corporation to rule the city through fear and violence. Ultimately, Makoto couldn't keep that lie going forever. It's not fair to decide the fate of so many people by himself, they needed to learn the truth so they can build a path forward. In my opinion, Makoto's motivation to lie is much more compelling than any sort of reasoning that the antagonists of V3 had to lie. Tsumugi just wanted to create entertainment out of people's suffering (which is basically what Junko already did in the first game, if you think about it). And who the hell knows what was going on in Kokichis head half of the time? But I do agree with some of your critiques to the story. Chapters 1 through 3 feel like they don't impact the main plot at all. Characters come and go without leaving any lasting impression on the player. Chapter 5 was really dragged out: it doesn't take long for the player to understand all the upcoming plot twists, but Yuma still takes so long to get there. And the fact that the real Yuma suddenly found out a substitute for human meat at the end is such a copout. Speaking of which, I also felt that the epilogue was missing a conclusion for the homunculi who died and were sent to the forbidden area. Are they going to be hungry and mindless for the rest of eternity? Is nobody going to research a way to rehabilitate them? It's weird how there's just no mention of them in the epilogue.
I overall thought the game was meh. But I hated the mystery in chapter 3, IT MAKES NO SENSE. When it was revealed that "swim guy" flooded the whole city to steal safes (which apparently everyone keeps on the ground floor) I lost it. It is the only twist that surprised me because of how much it makes no sense. "swim guy" had no reason to kill "boss guy" the game tries to say he killed him to pin the flooding and robbery on him (makes no sense he was dead while the robberies were happening). And it wasn't reactionary because he shot the guy as soon as he opened the door and had an escape route planned. ALSO the "engineer guy" didn't think about how the cameras he gave us had bombs in them? . . . 7/10
I'm honestly disappointed. Not just because I disagree overall with your opinions, since you're allowed to think whatever you want, but because so many of your issues with it are either major nitpicks, calling out plotholes that aren't really plotholes, or things you don't do a good job of elaborating upon and simply state "it's bad". I don't know how you can say you unironically like DR but think Rain Code is bad when the writing and story structure are so similar. There are things that this game did that weren't amazing at times, the villains being one of those things since all of them except Yomi and Makoto are just one-off antagonists that don't contribute much, but really nothing that destroys the experience or leaves me scratching my head confused. You didn't experience this game under the right conditions in the slightest, so I don't see how you can fairly critique it. Overall, I expected more.
You're more than welcome to think that. We knew going into this that we weren't going to be able to experience this "as intended", but we just wanted to talk about our weird experience with the game. Phos said "We don't have a whole lot we like about this game", and that's true. So we did focus on the nitpicks because that was more prominent in our minds and we got a little silly with it. We didn't plan out much of our dialogue or conversation beats, so maybe something we'd call a "plot hole" is really just something that we didn't think made sense. It just didn't work for us. All this to say is still, thank you for the comment.
I can't speak entirely for Tiny here, but for me, I don't see review or analysis to exist for the sake of convincing people of my opinions. I've spent a huge portion of my life being really deep into media analysis and review, and if I've learned anything, its that no matter how hard you try, things will always eventually wind up at a statement of "i think this is good and this other thing is bad." Art doesn't exist to create homogeny with everyone agreeing and feeling the same as each other, its just a collection of different people who have very different ways of looking at things, and different emotions. You can have people who disagree because they consciously have different values or analysis, and you can have people who simply feel differently for reasons that only your actual feelings could explain. Anyways, I don't bother trying to convince people to feel similarly to me, I think that's unproductive and leads to pointless conflict about whose feelings are more right, when we should be having fun with it and getting intrigued by all the different ideas and perspectives and studying why we feel what we feel. There are just so many infinite things we'd have to explain to begin with to try to justify why we like DR but didn't like this. I don't think either of us jate Rain Code, we just didn't have much fun with it, we were mostly bored. There's so much we'd have to explain about our own taste, in a macro and a micro sense, from overall structure to minute moment to moment details like the prose of written dialogue, that impact our entire experience. With that being said, I am curious which plot issues we brought up that you would argue actually make sense. Please let us know if we missed something, it's entirely possible, especially near the end.
@@phosphorescenceking6114 Plot issues I agree with: -Most of the villains are underutilised besides Yomi and Makoto. I wish they had a bit more depth, or at least appeared more outside the chapter they were introduced in. -All the culprits in Chapter 1 not having names is dumb, and they should've been given proper names to make them feel more like tangible characters. -The game should've better elaborated on what happens to Makoto if they solve the Mystery Labyrinth in Chapter 5, since he's immortal and wouldn't die from it presumably. That's really it. Maybe there's at least one more, but I can't remember off the top of my head. I generally disagreed with everything else to varying degrees.
I skipped this video when it came out because my brother and I were playing the game, but we burnt out on it by the start of chapter 2...we were uncomfortable with Disguise detective's obvious prurient interests in sneaking into the girls' school, and what felt like a 20-minute school play cutscene before the next person died was the nail in the coffin. We were interested and I liked the mystery labyrinth concept but we just couldn't handle the pacing. Chapter 0 was going fine until we discovered *none of these people* were going to remain relevant and it tanked my engagement. I'm gonna have to get some spoilers to find out what happened.
I widely agreed with your points, though Im sure people are pointing out that a lot of your gripes with the latter half of the game stemmed from just "wanting it over with and rushing past details" which is understandable from both viewpoints. Just small stuff like Plot Point X not being addressed when it very blatantly was, or side character Y disappearing when they do appear in side quests which you skipped. It's frustrating to hear and a bit unfair, but its all ultimately inane corrections and nitpicks in the overall opinion. The broad strokes, like Yuma being a total blank bore of a protagonist, Shinigami's fickleness to the point of absurdity from chapter to chapter, the powers and Yuma's influence on cases not mattering in the slightest, how only ONE (one) character confronts Yuma about being a mass murderer and the moral implications is just brushed aside, how only like 2-4 characters are even relevant... I have to agree.
Yeah, we understand our disinterest in the game definitely impacted how much we retained details. So as far as criticisms about us forgetting specific details, I believe that’s 100% fair. I am legit curious though, what characters do reappear in side quests? Because what we had gathered from the first chapter they were introduced in was that most of them featured unnamed side characters.
@@thetiniestleafI didn't talk to you about this, but some characters like Servant or Nun from chapter 1 come back in later side quests in a similar way to Ace Attorney one offs coming back to be assholes in a later game. I just didn't think it was worth mentioning because the point we were making was that the characters were boring and we didn't care about them and they were all highly disconnected from each other or the rest of the plot, hence why we called all the partners one off characters too, even though they're obviously around the whole game. I'm currently doing more research before I make an actual video breaking down the plotholes and contrivances, like I did for 13 Sentinels. I didn't think research was necessary before doing this collab because I didn't think our main issues were about plot cohesion, we were just bored and thought the story was overall pretty stupid and unengaging. Usually I'm extremely anxious about people telling me my plot analysis is wrong, so before most reviews I put an autistic level of time into research until I'm sure I know more about the product than any fan of it ever would. I'm, like, 95% sure that the game has disastrous plot logic issues, but I'll be happy to hash it out with a dissenter once I've memorized the game's script front to back. I'm assuming that what we missed out on was probably stuff to do with Yomi and Makoto, and maybe a couple excuses for certain things. Granted, if things are explained but the excuse is still stupid, like with the pink blood, I still don't think that means we made a mistake, it just means we don't buy the explanation or think it's reasonable. I have a long history of sniffing out the most obscure and detail oriented plot holes, I'm VERY confident that once I make sure I didn't miss anything, that I'll be able to prove a huge variety of plot holes exist in this game.
Overall i like this game , its flaws i already had for it got added on and amplified thanks to this video. I would still rank it a c+ or a 7/10 has alot of issues but overall i find it ok. It isn't worth 60 dollars in my opinion . Have a good one you 2.
Yeah this game really is Diet dangan, it was really lacking for every step forward it make it takes two step backward like I really dig Makoto as a main villain especially his goals but nearly every culprit was really lacking in the motive which i admit kodaka doesn't invest as much in the whydunnit as much as i want but this game is even worse at it not helping mystery lab is just not as fun as class trials and the really slow dialogue doesn't help Chapter 4 hurts me because it could have been the best but like you said we barely spend time with the shocking culprit Idk man this truly was an adventure game by Kodaka also yes this game needed an R18 scene with Yomi and Martina
I enjoyed it but I would still say not as good as danganronpa. I know the danganronpa games had fan service but the fan service in this game was wayyyy too much imo (and desuhiko is one of the most unlikeable characters in any video game ever haha). I feel like we didn't get to spend enough time with the characters either, which was kind of lame because I really liked the other master detectives. The scenery and atmosphere is also so genuinely cool but other than the errand running requests and the gumshoe gab, there's just not that much to do in the districts which I feel is a really big missed opportunity. One other thing is that I think this game was a bit more predictable than the danganronpa games, I felt like I could work out the culprit pretty early on in the mystery labyrinth and in chapter 4 I guessed it before the investigation even started (got pretty lucky though). On the topic of mystery labyrinths, they are genuinely so cool and I love how unique each one is for each chapter, definetly something rain code does better than danganronpa imo. Overall a pretty good experience and looking forward to the DLC cases, but I don't think it reached the peaks that danganronpa did.
You cut out the part where we debate the likelyhood of Shinigami also being racist. Why are you covering for her? I bet you and her are laughing behind my back! I bet you both talk late into the night about how much you LOVED Oppenheimer, don't you!
I have a ton of problems with the game, it’s rly creepy a lot of times towards minors, (Although, it’s less than Despair Girls.) Some of it’s murders feel pretty lame compared to the others, like for example, chapter three was a pretty lame case compared to chapters zero, one, and two. I also dislike how they handled Halara as being non-binary, and how they handled the treatment of that by saying “Are they a boy or a girl?” (Them liking cats and dogs is cute though.) They had a black character that was mute mostly and was really aggressive and I don’t like how almost all the dark skinned characters in DR are usually stupid/inexperienced/aggressive. It feels kind of like colorism, chapter two felt really sad though, I kind of wished that in the game Shinigami asks the player if they should boom-kill the culprit, or let them live despite the things they have caused. I think it would be really cool to ask that question, because a lot of the culprits were morally questionable with their behavior, and how some were going to die after the thing was over, so like.. would killing be a type of mercy? I don’t know. Also, I think the fifth chapter felt really forced and I think the plot twist of Yuma being real while the other guy is a clone would be more interesting if it was Yuma who was the clone, and not the other guy. Also I believe in the head canon that Shinigami is the ghost of Junko Enoshima. A lot of the fan service made me uncomfortable, but a lot of the character designs were cool and thankfully there was no Kotoko/Monica pedophile stuff during the whole thing, so at least there was that. I also liked how they made new mini games like “crime scene reconstruction,” it’s really cool, but I kind of wish it was either a sequel to danganronpa, or just it’s own separate franchise.
i definitely agree with most of the things you said in this comment, although except for the one about choosing wether to kill the culprit or not. i feel like choosing would affect the emotional impact of the case, and make chapter 2 and 4 less heartbreaking, which imo is a core part of the case. i feel Yuma being forced to kill the murderer would make him question wether using the mystery labyrinths were worth it. simply letting the killer live would lessen the sacrifice for the truth.
To be honest, this game looks much more lame compared to danganronpa. So much of this game seems like a step back or retrace of danganronpa. I do not like the new mascot/side kick too much as at best she is used for pure comedy and at worst she is used for blatant fan service (i have only seen the game upto the chapter with the nail man so she could be more important or deep as a character). The part that replaces the class trial where you have to shoot in danganronpa, lacks the energy that even the second danganronpa game had that then the third game would master. If i could compare the dangan v3 class debate sections it feels like i am in a constant rush to solve a complicated plot but in raincode, even when shinimgami mentions how that there is a time limit to solve everything it feels like i am solving a youtube riddle andmpaused the video.
Honestly, I liked RainCode more than the main Danganronpa games because 1. it doesn't have a complete bullshit ending like 2 and V3 (the ending is actually really great) 2. there is no case that I really hated (only cases 3 was kinda dumb because of the villain's motive, the even cases are amazing however, case 2 is better than almost every DR case); the cases in general didn't feel as contrived as in DR. 3. the music is as great as in DR if not even better (but probably not as iconic), 4. i feel like the dialogue is not AS dumb as in DR. 5. I've never been a big fan of the socializing aspect of DR (it kinda ruined the pacing for me), so I'm glad it's not there, 6. the overarching plot is a lot better than in any DR game and it has a believable world. 7. Yuma is a better protagonst than any DR protagonist. (EDIT) 8. I also like that, unlike DR, Rain Code has an official german translation which made it more accessible for me. There are some issues, however: The loading times can be really long, most of the sidequests are kinda meh, some of the minigames (like the bomb defusal ones, or QTE) are stupid. But I mean, the gameplay in DR was always not as great as in Ace Attorney. My biggest issue are the characters: They are either heavily underutilized (because they die too early or due to other reasons, especially the antagonists) or not that likeable/ interesting: Halara and Fubuki are kinda bland and Desuhiko is easily the worst character I've ever met in a video game. My favorite is Vivia, apart from the protagonist himself. The main villain and the finale in general are really cool (although pretty obvious). My ranking of the games: Rain Code > DR 1 >>> DR 2 > DRV3 My ranking of the cases: 2 > 4 > 0 > 5 > 1 > 3
We actually like DR because of those exact reasons, because DR is so silly and so ironic, its like comparing a disney movie to Shrek. Shrek is dumber, but its trying to be dumber, its trying to make an edgy obnoxious statement about all the things that are so dumb in it. The silliness lends to a higher suspension of disbelief, we can put up with a lot more unreasonable logic or emotions or character beats in a series that is so fundamentally unrealistic. There's an interesting trend in the Yakuza games which also vary in terms of silliness and dumbness, where the games that people like more or less tend to be opposite based on how they think about media and their own respective suspension of disbelief. I love yakuza 4 and dislike yakuza 3, but for some people, they like 3 but dislike 4, because 4 is so fucking stupid, for me it loops back around to being fun and hilarious, and 3 is the one that's just dumb in a boring way, but for others who can tolerate 3's level of dumbness, they think 3 is fine, and that 4 is the actually dumb one.
Hey everybody! Just wanted to clarify something about this video. (Copy + pasting most of this from the community tab)
I was very nervous about publishing our discussion of Rain Code because it is very unlike my usual "brand". This video is much longer, it's with one of my good friends, it's very spontaneous (obviously), and it's probably the most negative I've been about a game in a long time without doing much "research". Even with my formal Ultra Despair Girls review, I took a lot of time to fact check myself and reconsider things from multiple angles before drafting my final script.
I didn't do that with this Rain Code video, and it wasn't because I didn't care about it. But my (un)official "So I Just Played" series that I've been doing is meant to focus on my initial, gut reactions without them being swayed by other people's arguments or post-gameplay research. Already in the two weeks since Phos and I recorded this video, I've looked more into other people's arguments (thank you guys
An extremely minor nitpick of your review, but the explanation given to the residents of Kanai Ward as to why they have pink blood now is not because the rain changes it once it’s outside the body, but that the rain somehow effected their bodies in a way that changed their blood color entirely. And tbh, if I was in their position I don’t think I would question it too hard either, especially not three years after the fact. Imagine waking up after missing a week of time, to the city completely destroyed, and with constant rain bearing down on you?? Yeah sure, I’ll accept the pink blood, wouldn’t be the weirdest thing to happen to me. I would have other shit to focus on, like rebuilding my home and trying to survive under a newly appointed police state.
Oh no, we understood the game's explanation, we just still felt it was very unreasonable for a city's public to believe what they were told. More importantly, we felt it was unrealistic for none of the outsiders from Yuma, Shinigami, and Halara and the others, not to notice or mention it. Presumably, all the master detectives were there to investigate the great mystery, but we have no idea what any of them were doing when not helping Yuma with whatever shit he was up to at the time, and it seems unreasonable to us that no one from Kurumi to Yakou ever mentioned the blank week which started all of this until the final chapter. Like, Halara seriously never asked Yakou why all the blood was pink? Or if she did, and Yakou told her it was caused by the rain that strangely never stops, that Halara seriously believed that that was true? Even characters in power who don't seem to know that they are homoculi, like Yomi. Yomi seriously never questioned why his blood is pink now? The scientists like the deaf guy, they never questioned why the rain doesn't stop or why all their blood is pink? Because only Makoto knows any of that stuff. Makoto and the UG were responsible for sealing off the city to keep all the homunculi inside and limit investigation into it, so Yomi had nothing to do with the city being sealed off, but never questioned it despite thinking that he was in charge? It all just stretches our suspension of disbelief. I personally have a very low tolerance for stretching my disbelief.
Playing Rain Code, I was really hoping the big twist wasn't tied to the mystery filling in those meat buns, but as soon as I saw the conveyor belt in the restricted zone, I had to take a moment.
I think I liked the story more because I hadn't played any of the Danganronpa games beforehand. After playing DR 1,2, and V3, I can see all the patterns the devs stuck to.
This was my first Kodaka game that I played, literally the first time I held a switch (thanks sis), and perhaps it was just experiencing the controls at hand, but I liked it. If I were an onlooker like I intended on the beginning looking at other people’s let’s plays, I’d more likely have even more complaints to the game than I do, but going in blind relying on no one but myself to think through the mysteries added onto my experience. Yuma might be a very bland character on the outside, but my butter fingers ramming him into the wall every 6 seconds and his apologetic and shy self made me scream in my mind “OH GOD I’M SO SORRY YUMA”. I was truly growing with Yuma all the way.
The voice acting is immaculate, and I loved everyones voice work into the game.
I will say everything I’m hearing from the both of you, I had also thought of those as they played out in the game, but the hands on experience is very much needed.
EDIT: Yes, there is a shorter version coming out. It will be spoiler free.
Sooo what did you guys think of Rain Code? I’m interested to learn what other people think of it!
Haven't played it yet. Is there a non-spoiler version of this video?
Not yet. There’s gonna likely be a spoiler free section in the shorter cut :)
Havent played it/watched it yet
Loved it, despite the flaws it had, halara, yakou, and makoto hard carried this game to make me love it
Here's my thing. SPOILERS INBOUND.
Raincode's theme revolves around the truth, its ramifications and trust in general.
Firstly, the whole reason Yuma made the pact with Shimigami was to help find the truth behind Kanai Ward. He placed his trust in Shimigami that she'd be able to help Yuma when his memories were gone.
Next, Yuma before he lost his memories and afterwards are two separate people. Yuma had to work from the ground up in order to help develop his abilities as a detective again.
Yuma loosing his memories forced him to trust others, even if it was at a risk, and that lead him to essentially break the one rule he had for himself when he had his memories. "Discard your emotions to reach a perfect resolution".
This mentality was flawed, and Pre Story Yuma knew that, but when you've been doing something for so long, its not easy to mend your ways.
Thats why he made the pact, and allowed himself to loose his memories. Putting himself in the position of a rookie allowed him to lean on others, express himself, and rember his reasoning for being a detective to begin with.
Finding the truth and telling the truth can have consequences, and its ok to struggle with them. Yuma through Shimigami killed a priest trying to answer the prayers of his people by killing others, 3 high-school girls getting revenge from their best friend's death, a swimmer trying to rob the banks in order to get out of the hell hole he was in, and Yuma's own mentor.
Yuma every single time had to stuggle with the ramifications of the truth, but it just helped push him towards the truth of the Ward.
If you can't find the truth on your own, its ok to have others help you. Yuma had Halara, Desahiko, Fubuki, and Vivia's help in this journey, and it was thanks to their efforts that Yuma solved it all.
Thats My take anyway.
I think that’s a good take! And I can see why that works for you. One of my sticking points with that, though, is that the themes of truth/trust are also, arguably, quite prominent in DRV3. So it’s a little difficult for me to not see it as a rehashing of what has already been done before and with a cast of characters I didn’t know as well/have as a strong a connection to. But I really do like your interpretation! Thanks for sharing it 💚
@@thetiniestleaf That's understandable. I understand your point and criticism. Personally speaking I don't think it's a bad idea to rehash themes, especially when you consider this as it's own title. This isn't Danganronpa. Sure it's made by Kodaka, but this game in my opinion should be evaluated by it's own merits
Regardless I personally appreciate you conversing with me over the topic.
I think my biggest issue with this video boils down to: this isn’t a visual novel. While not purposely, y’all chose to play this game in like the worst way possible. The script is the script, and I agree, it’s got it’s bad moments, but you missed so much of the atmosphere that I love. The characters are voice acted, and the voice actors add so much life to these characters! The gameplay is more than just reading text, and even though there’s a lot of text, this is still a game, not a novel. The script relies on having the game around it. And I think that you might have a better opinion of the game if you actually let it show you everything on the tin. The soundtrack added so much for me, I cannot imagine this world without it. I’m not saying you should play it again, because you two obviously really didn’t enjoy the experience you did have, but so many of your points deal with one aspect of the game. It’s a big aspect, and I agree with most of your points, but perhaps you might’ve been more lenient with the characters and the world had you experienced it the same way 90% of other people did. Love your stuff, and I don’t want this to seem too critical, because I did enjoy your discussion! This was just itching at me. As someone who works in game design, stories have to work either narratologically or ludologically in my books, and for me Rain Code hit a weird art vibe with the character and sound designs, the music, and the overall art direction that Danganronpa could never reach, even though all those games have a much better story. Again, love your videos, and thanks for the new one!
That definitely is my biggest regret with our experience and I absolutely would’ve changed it if I could. Because the parts I did hear were very good and listening to the music while editing was wonderful. It’s actually the main reason I would consider replaying this game in the future… as soon as I can play it on PC :’)
@@thetiniestleaf Totally agree that this game is not worth buying a switch for lmao Thanks for the reply!
Personally I disagree with this sentiment. First, to clarify some things, we were exaggerating the circumstances for simplicity. I have heard almost everything in the full game myself, idk if Tiny has, but I have. I've seen multiple LPs and streamers go through pretty much all parts of the game. I've heard all the audio. While we were playing it together, we had audio for, like, half of the game, and in some instances if we had a particular moment we wanted to hear something, I'd remove the switch from the port and just play the audio straight from the device. We knew what everyone generally sounded like, and we'd had audio for the first 2 full chapters so we were also familiar with the style of delivery the VAs had for the line readings. It wasn't ideal, but it's not like we just had no idea what we were missing out on. If I felt that we were making statements in bad faith, I'd admit to it readily.
Speaking for myself, I listen to audiobooks while playing games, so I play a LOT of games with no audio, or only putting in audio at certain points out of curiosity or if I think it's important. I usually play the first 2 hours or so of a game with audio in, and then if it's not doing much for the experience for me, I'll go back to listening to my audiobooks. You're absolutely right that every element of a game makes up the overall experience, and we might've been in a slightly better mood if we had the intended music on the whole time. That being said, I'm of the opinion that the VA doesn't save any of the dialogue, and in some cases it makes it worse. The problem we have with the dialogue is the same problem I have with the VA: it's too anime. It lacks subtlety or nuance. It's in your face. It's not gentle or complex. Even if we had audio the whole time, we still would've been cutting all the lines off early because we were blazing through most of the dialogue anyways, since most of the lines take a lot of words to express very little actual information, both explicit or implicit. In my opinion, the chill music of the overworld is pleasant, but I don't think any of the performances left a positive impression on me. I'm not saying they're bad, they just wouldn't have made us feel any better about the game in any significant way. I also listened to the audio for chapter 5 and it made me want to die from cringe because of how corny and cliche the music gets during the final magic sword battle of anime. I think some games, yeah, audio is super important, but I've been around the block and I can see when something doesn't have a lot of depth. I skipped some dialogue because I could tell that it wouldn't add anything and it was shallow; I feel the same about the audio we didn't hear.
There's a lot of ways that people can "play something wrong" so to say. Any state of mind, any specific expectations one has going into a piece of media. Hell, even just playing with a friend makes the experience we had and the way we consumed and talked about it wildly different than if we had played by ourselves. I'm not ignorant of all of those factors, I just have a certain duality of acceptance of it. I know that there's no "perfect" way to consume something, and that any infinite number of things can affect my experience with something, some of which I can control, some of which I can't, and some of which are just up to random causality. At the same time, I keep in mind my biases and the circumstances of my experience while thinking about things. This isn't a very serious video, we didn't even research anything before making this, it's not some clean official review, it's just us joking around about the game. But even so, I'm completely aware of things I could've done differently, my biases and circumstances at play, the benefit of the doubt, etc, and I'm still confident in the observations that I've made, even while taking all of that into account. In this video, we don't say which things we seriously think, and which things we only loosely feel. We don't specify which things are major criticisms, and which are just little nitpicks. It's not an argumentative video, so it doesn't have that rigid structure. Some things we said in it, we're aware we might be mistaken about or we have "soft" opinions on. Other things we have very firm opinions on and we're very confident about. We didn't clarify which were which, although you might be able to tell from out cadence. The things that we're confident in our feelings about, the big stuff, almost certainly wouldn't have changed if our playing experience was more ideal. Maybe it would've, there's always a chance, but I'm very confident it wouldn't've.
I hope that explanation makes sense! Thanks for the comment!
@@phosphorescenceking6114 It does! Which is why I don’t suggest you to play this again.
1 thing in terms of 1 off characters and why they work in ace attorney and why they don't in this is the mental umderstanding of the plot structure. You know that Ace Attorney will be a series of 1 offs, and that is what the plot is about after all. Your objective as Phoenix or whoever else is just to do your next job and help clients. Thats the whole point. Rain Code has all the big mysteries like the major Kanai Ward secret and Yuma's memories, and these are your primary objectives in no uncertain terms, but then you just work on cases like the clocktower murder and it feels like a huge distraction. It's then even more unsatisfying at the end of that case when you don't do amything, Yomi just shows up and says he knows Seth is corrupt and kills him and lets the falsely accused father go. He obviously would've done that regardless of Yuma being here or doing anything, espevially since Yuma didn't even solve that Seth was paid off by the church.
Ace Attorney also has a very soap opera structure to it, where it escalates in tension and corniness as a case goes on until you're really into it, whereas in Rain Code, you there's never any tension because you always have the option to dive into the labyrinth if you need to, amd even in the labyrinth, there's very little sense of stakes or pressure, since you can just go through the place at your own pace and it feels like there's no threat and no rising action at all.
Ace attorney has more likable fun characters than Boy from chapter 1 or Waruna from chapter 2, because Ace Attorney isn't trying to be edgy, it can just let the cast be fun and not try to turn it into an ineffective emotional or moral appeal. Rain Code suffers because it wants you to care, but it takes a lot more for us to care about characters who seem really flat and who we barely know, especially when its so clear that we, Kokohead, have no authority or ability to fix any situation. Chapter 0 we do nothing and get saved by Yakou even though that makes no sense. Chapter 1 Yomi just comes in and solves it. Chapter 2 is the only time where the authority listens to us, so it's the only chapter where Yuma does anything productive, and that's the fucking chapter where he murders 3 girls. Chapter 3, Yakou and the others just show up having already solved the crime and captured the swimmer guy. Chapter 4, Makoto shows up and ousts Yomi. Chapter 5, I guess Yuma convinces Makoto to tell the people that they're weird zombies, but even then, the problem was the kidnapping people and eating human meat, and that's just handwaved away in the epilogue. Furthermore, a point we forgot to mention, chapter 5 is the only time where we learn anything at all about the plot, aside from Kurumi's brief mention of homunculus in chapter 2, which she claims she got from her deceased grandfather. Everything else is learned in chapter 5, and the process of learning it is ENTIRELY Makoto just revealing it directly to you. Yuma doesn't "figure out" anything at all, he just wakes up after having been kidnapped arbitrarily by Makoto, and Makoto leaves a deliberate trail of evidence that just tells Kokohead everything. I can't overstate how annoying and worthless it is that the core plot is just solved because the villain just decided to tell you everything right at the end. His detective work did nothing the entire game. So the end result is, it's hard to feel any attachment to any of the characters, not just because they're mostly 1 offs, we also don't care about Yakou, Yuma, or Shinigami either.
You guys touch on this briefly but apart from the weak characters the thing that annoys me the most about the game is the lack of a theme - or rather the complete abandoning of the theme they were building.
I'm talking about Shinigami being the death penalty. Spoilers from here on.
I would be completely fine with Shinigami being a bad guy and a hypocrite, because all throughout the game I was thinking they were building toward the fact that the mystery labyrinth both does not help anybody and actively just kills people without any consideration of what the culprit did or their motivations. Shinigami is so very clearly a bad influence on the world in general, and yet despite that, for some reason the game expects us to be super sad when the literal murder god whose only purpose is to kill and never helps anybody gets left behind? Oh yes I'm so unhappy that the metaphor for the death penalty has to go away, how sad.
It's especially so weird because Kokohead, as bland as he is, has exactly one defining characteristic: He wants to make everyone happy by solving mysteries. And yet he never stops to think about the fact that all he has ever done in the game is kill people. You guys point this out too: Solving the crimes does not actually help anybody, and the point is just never used to say anything.
This is especially egregious during chapter 2: Yuma gives very little token pushback to Shinigami pushing him to murder 3 high school girls. As you guys point out, if murder in revenge as the girls did is not justice, then Kokohead murdering the 3 of them in retaliation is most definitely even worse. If Yuma was a real character he would have at the very least tried to stop Shinigami from being his accessory to murder, especially since he knows at that point he could exit the mystery labyrinth(though he does not know what that entails). Honestly would have loved to get some kind of choice there to have Yuma just not want to keep going with the investigation and quitting the labyrinth as some form of early game over because he can't square murdering 3 high schoolers with his morals. I dunno if that would have fixed something but something should have happened there.
Apart from that I have two little points:
1. A shame you guys heard little of the soundtrack, it was very much the best part of the game
2. I like Halara a lot and feel they would have worked fine as the default detective that's actually competent if the rest of the cast were better written.
The game's theme was about the morality of pursuing the truth and the negative consequences of doing so, not a bland commentary on the death penalty.
Your reasoning for Shinigami being a "death penalty" metaphor lacks any compelling evidence to convince me that the game was intentionally going for that. She's just a death god. Monokuma from DR wasn't a death penalty metaphor just because he executed students, so I don't see how that's the case here for Shinigami.
The claim that Yuma never thinks about the consequences of his actions isn't even an opinion; it's just factually wrong. He has multiple inner monologues about the morality of his actions. It is the basis of his character arc. How you somehow didn't notice this is beyond me when the game spells it out to you.
Also, to claim that the Mystery Labyrinths cause nothing but pain is fundamentally wrong. Most of the Mystery Labyrinths are vital in finding out important plot details (Chapter 4 especially), as well as helping the heroes avoid being arrested by the Peacekeepers or helping to prove others innocent. The point of the labyrinths is that they have both positive and negative effects, and to claim they're only negative is just black-and-white thinking.
I really liked the game honestly. I loved that the first case subverted all expectations and killed off the detectives we assumed would be there the whole game. Case 2 was probably one of my favourite cases out of any DR game as well. I also love that most lines are voice acted and the pacing is a bit faster than the DR games especially before the murders take place. Maybe it’s just my adhd but sometimes I’d get bored playing the daily life sections in DR. I really liked the ending/final chapter of the game too. I thought it was much more interesting than revealing “it was all a game or fiction” and bring back junko a million times lol. I found all the mysteries labyrinths, engaging and fun to play for the most part. Basically playing it just made me happy and scratched my DR itch without repeating some of my main criticisms about those games.
Don’t get me wrong though, the game does have its flaws. The detectives absolutely should’ve had a bigger role outside of their chapter so we could get more attached to them. Yuma was a bit boring and shemigami was fun but it definitely got annoying hearing her call kurumi flat all the time. I also felt like there should have been a “bad ending” to make ur decision at the end of the game more impactful.
DR2 > Raincode > DR1 > DRV3 > UDG
to be honest this is probably my favorite kodaka game (though i have to yet play the 999 games) and i could not tell you why, i just loved it
Hey that’s totally fair! Def play 999. It’s not a Kodaka game but it’s one of my favorites hands down.
@@thetiniestleaf i already bought the steam version with the two games, but i have other games to play like the great ace attorney yakuza and other games so i'm reserving it for when i at least beat the great ace attorney
For me, being so used to Kodaka's writing, I thought this game was beautiful and I really, personally, feel that it surpasses Danganronpa, just a little bit. Kodaka continues to write excellent characters when he wants to, Halara is well written, more nuanced and not reduced to ONE specific thing, it's more than that and that's perfect. I thought Desuhiko was also excellent, I mean, he's not like Teruteru at all, and he's someone funny. He's the clear example that this time, Kodaka didn't limit himself to just using tropes and not going out of the box. Desuhiko is more likable than Mineta from BNHA or even Roshi from DBZ. Then there's Fubuki and Vivia who are my favourites along with The Master. On the other hand, I agree, Wendy was gorgeous in design but in personality... fuck, how generic, kind yeah, but generic. I hope she's better in the sequel. And yes, Hajime is the best protagonist of the trilogy of DR, facts. The fanservice didn't bother me either, and I think it was even more elegant and sensual compared to Mikan's crappy and nasty pratfalls. Shinigami really looked like a model... Which makes sense since Kodaka did it on purpose, since it's a clear reference to Junko, as he said in an interview, that this time he wanted to write a character like Junko as an ally instead of an antagonist. Anyway, entertaining video as always, keep it up and take care! «3
“Hajime is the best protagonist”
Smh Komaru is /hj
I wish that they gave Kurumi the ability to fight or have some self defense skills considering how she's the only informant in a corrupt city with weird mysteries and brutalities from the Peacekeepers daily, instead of only running or just standing there scared whenever Yuma got jumped in Chapter 5. Like ik she's a high school girl, but she doesn't seem to be prepped for this at ALL. Like did her Grandpa not give much pointers or stuff besides the info he gathered?
@@daisanity6457 I wish that they explored more on fortes, because although it’s only the detectives (plus you know who) who have them, it would’ve been epic if a murder occurred due to a supernatural power and we’d go on a whole manhunt within the labyrinth to figure out who the hell was hiding a secret power, or when a character’s forte is not only overpowered, but it’s ability affects the real world far greater. It does seem that fortes based on the existing information we have from them in the game is similar to the quirks in BNHA, fortes can be genetic as according to Fubuki in chapter 3 before we go into the mystery labyrinth, errors in time are a usual thing in her family. The only difference is that people with fortes are the minority.
I’m a writer if you hadn’t noticed already, but I managed to already delulu a “few” OC detectives and their forte so let me explain one of them. After a little thought through, I made her a very distant relative to Fubuki because of her power.
Time pause: on impulse, the world around you immediately stops and everything and everyone is frozen in place. People, animals, vehicles, rain, air, and even gravity. On the contrary, you can move, but you can’t feel your pulse either. When time starts again however, for every bit you moved in that suspended time-space, your heart will immediately make up for it the very moment it starts again.
In context, when she stops time, she is still able to move around and interact with physical objects that aren’t live in itself (can’t start a fire, or use digital devices like a smartphone), and could even investigate at different angles (upside down on the ceiling, or at an elevated space where an air duct is)as an anomaly, so when she begins time again she would either achieve a completely successful investigation within an area she isn’t allowed to be in, go into places that where physically impossible to pass (20f distance platforms), or be able to retrieve objects that could not have been accessible to before. If she and a buddy were avoiding incoming objects, she would be able to just drag and pull their body out of the way like a feather. And when I say she becomes an anomaly, her DNA doesn’t actually register onto anything she touches, so she’s able to quite literally walk into and out of places “without a trace”. The side effect of that forte is as mentioned, for once time begins again, depending on how much she moved within the pause, she would instantly go into cardiac arrest after having her heart beat 60 times a *second*. So despite the great power, unless it totally necessary, she needs to rely on making short changes or checks within time pause as to not make routine visits to emergency care.
Oh dang, I was looking forward to it.
Without spoilers, is it still worth playing as a DR fan? Or will it be mostly disappointing?
For me, it's so good. Really good.
It’s hard to say, because I’ve seen a lot of DR fans who loved Rain Code. However, I personally don’t think so. It wasn’t as funny, the characters weren’t as memorable, and I really think the gameplay is dull. It would be more worth it to watch someone else play it!
@@thetiniestleaf Good to know, thank you!
I’ve played through all of the danganronpa games and love danganronpa especially V3. I thought Raincode was fantastic
@@thetiniestleafif i am honest, i agree. While i am currently play dangan 2 and only played v3 and saw buiju mike playing the first game, this game is super lame looking, it lacks the identity and the originality of the danganronpa games. The only things that raincode does not have that were problems in the danganronpa games (that i know of since i have only watched buiju mike play till the nailman chapter) were:
•fetisisation of csa victims
•transphobic kaito in the japanese script
•poor handling of did especially with korejego where even in the univerese of v3 there was even less point to add that aspect of the chareacter with his infatuation for his sister
•eerily casual references to incest
•and killing tenko (she could have changed and developed 8nto a better character, i promise😢)
But all of these remarks, are kind of common sense.
I didn’t like the side quests at all. Collectibles were just as annoying to miss as in Danganronpa except that here they have actual value, which was annoying.
As for the main game itself, the first two cases were really good, the third was interesting in that it reminded me of the Shapeshifting Detective FMV game, the fourth and fifth felt really frustrating to “solve”, and the sixth was really interesting.
As “out there” as the big twist was, I do personally feel like it’s the best Danganronpa-style twist they’ve done yet, because it’s such a whiplash but also a unique and imaginative situation. It really felt like Makoto was actually a redeemable villain because as bad as his actions were, he was protecting everyone from a much worse situation.
In all honesty the only reason I’m still (kind of) part of the Rain Code fandom is that I got way too invested in the game before it even came out. It’s a case of “buying something before you actually know what you’re getting” if you catch my drift.
Also, I’m not sure if you guys talked about the voice acting much, (I know you mentioned you went into it without audio) but the English voice actors did a great job with their performances despite the source material being so iffy. Especially Shinigami’s VA, they deserve so much better imo. That said, they also cast two notoriously problematic VA’s (K*ren Str*ssman and D*rek St*phen Pr*nce) in secondary roles, which really rubbed me the wrong way. They also made everyone pronounce the name Karen like “Kuh-ren”, which did not work bc no English speaking person would naturally pronounce it that way lol
But yeah, it’s actually kinda refreshing to know I’m not the only one who had mixed feelings on this game. Rain Code had such a great premise and potential, but it falls flat, and I couldn’t help but be disappointed.
I loved the idea, but the world felt a little empty which feels like a missed opportunity. It was okay, but if it has a sequel id love the city to feel more alive
Great, fun little talk! Since you asked for thoughts on Rain Code:
I didn't enjoy it, and it's frustrating to say cuz I was certain it'd scratch my Dangan-itch. I'd chalk it up to the writing, characters, and the twist/mystery aspects falling flat for me.
1) Writing - Like Phos mentioned in the video, I didn't find much of the script interesting or funny, it didn't grab my attention. The only two lines I can remember laughing at were Desuhiko's reaction when you switch into the second disguise in Chapter 2, and when he soliloquies about how he struggles to not be evil with his Forte and Yuma just shuts him down over how weird he's acting.
Morals and themes: It's super surprising to me that they never question the authority of the WDO, or how Yuma never questions if he should be using the Mystery Labyrinth at all, post Chapter 2? Then when they suddenly jump into the "zombie/undead/RE-esque biohazard" genre, there's no existential dilemma about how the Kanai Ward homunculi killed all the originals, and have been cannibals for the past 3 years? The epilogue happens and there's no existential crisis or crisis of morality, they just get over it quickly? I feel like the Epilogue gestures at saying "they're just like humans", but they're demonstrably *not*. They're more than human. They don't die, have a zombie mode, and suffer no psychic damage from their true nature and what they've been doing for their existence. The game doesn't investigate that at all.
Oh, and the Forte integration was kinda crappy? Fubuki's is just you can re-do a FTE if you fail (You can already do this in Chapter 0). Vivia's... they just gave up and now they're in a really lame 3D Mario platformer for a sequence.
2) Characters - WOO BOY were they flat, and at times inconsistent? Being stuck with Shinigami was so frustrating as she has two modes of "be morbid" or "hate on the woman nearest to Yuma", and there's never any good zingers from her? Her insults were so repetitive, too. Another reviewer pointed out how misogynistic her insults leaned, and how much they read like a script for a 2000s teen drama, and I think that's the perfect summary.
Yakou is someone I want to single out as I just look at him and chapter 4 and think: "This scenario exists because they felt like they needed a surprising, emotionally resonant penultimate chapter death like in DR". But Yakou just isn't established enough for me to care about, even though Yuma cares a lot. Like you mentioned, there's three depicted scenes of times spent with Yakou: When he saves us upon arrival, when we cooked for him, and when we ran an errand for him... that's it. And I just don't believe he would've followed that plan, no matter how "Kira-God Mode" Makoto/Yomi might be. This is a cowardly man, who in Chapter 1 swears he'd "never turn the detectives in to help himself". Come Chapter 4, he's a steel-nerved assassin who undertakes a suicide mission that ensures his detectives will be trapped at the scene, and certainly will be blamed for it. (And they would've gotten killed had Makoto not interfered, something Yakou couldn't have accounted for.) His motive that completely flips his disposition and values around? Revenge for his... dead wife, who is not even named.
3) The Twists/Mysteries - Speaking of that, a whole lot of Rain Code just felt... Familiar to me. A dead wife being the motive for a good guy gone rogue. A staged suicide where the victim's handiness gives the game away. Things of that nature, the mysteries felt very "first idea". It's honestly kind of shocking to me to think that a "locked room" *with a large vent in it* and a "locked room" that has a window that *automatically locks when shut* were even presented as being "mysterious locked rooms scenarios" and somehow made it to the final draft.
Then those twists. Wooey. This loops back to the script, but rather than being inevitable, they were just obvious: I called that all the Detectives on the train were going to die immediately after talking to Aphex because of how expository his intro was. I called the rain being a form of mind control when Yakou said it "does something to their bodies" in the Prologue. I called the "Soylent Green/Brave New World" twist in Chapter 1 when they hit on how everybody in Kanai loved meat buns. So on and so forth. The twists didn't feel fresh. The "the failed homunculi are basically zombies" thing is just... Never explained as to why being defective means you operate on zombie logic? It felt like the writers really wanted a zombie/Invasion of the Body Snatchers ending, but none of the moral questions the game built up beforehand linked into that? It's zombie iconography, but none of the zombie genre moral questions about survival and humanity and "who are the real monsters" etc.
So yeah... Not too hot of a game. Props I will give: Loved Chapter 2 (Outside of Shinigami's odd transphobic quips). The buildup to the murder, the setting and ecosystem of the drama club, the investigation where you navigated three cliques: That's something that couldn't have been done in DR, and I hope Rain Code 2 really studies that chapter for their next attempt. I felt like I really got a sense of who Kurane, Waruna, and Yoshiko were, something none of the other suspects (And even other detectives!) got. Hope Kodaka sticks to his recent interview he gave where he stated he hopes to revisit DR, and possibly develop it alongside Rain Code as two franchise pillars within Spike Chunsoft. I think it was the script that went wrong, not necessarily the premise.
Whoa that's a long comment but yeh
In terms of characters that’s why the gumshoe gabs exist, they’re like the free time events of this game.
Also I think the reason that shinigami acted so terrible was because she knew that she and Yuma would part ways so she and Yuma wouldn’t get attached to each others
The epilogue does a lot more damage than good for the game. The whole game, we're told arguments from characters like Makoto and Vivia that the reason they shouldn't reveal hard truths is because they're too difficult. Makoto hides the secret of Kanai Ward simply because he doesn't want them to know and suffer for knowing what they are, in some vague way. We're told that the great world mystery is the disappearing death row inmates. We know they're dying and being turned into meat. But then the epilogue and ending, 1, Yuma returns to being Number One after choosing not to use Shinigami's power in the end to kill Makoto, so it begs the question of why he ever thought he needed her power to begin with, and it also removes the importance of any point at which Yuma is learning to be a detective, because nothing he learns is relevant if he just goes back to being the best detective who, according to the tone and script, was already perfect and had no flaws to overcome. It removes the consequence of needing human meat for the people, and they're all just happy. Violent crime is apparently not a problem anymore, despite chapter 1 proving how many people want others to die in this city. Fascism is gone. All the arguments for why Makoto did what he did are gone, they meant nothing. No one seems upset to learn the truth, they somehow had a scientific breakthrough and now don't even need human meat anymore. Ever single moral about truth even in the face of difficulty meant nothing. All the difficulty just magically vanished.
I would love to hear your opinion of both the case of the golden idol and the rise of the golden idol
Damn I can't listen to this in public because I'm cracking up 15 minutes in. Can't wait to listen when I get back home!
12:40-13:07
The irony of that phrase coming out of a tomato...
22:40-22:46
You're saying that in front of Bob the Tomato!🤣
On a more serious note, I did start watching gameplay of this game when it came out, but I pretty much stopped in the middle of Chapter 1, not even getting to the Mystery Labrynth. When I was watching the gameplay for Danganronpa, I was so invested that I if I didn't have to work or sleep, I would have not put it down. For all three of the mainline games. But this game... I'm having trouble even picking it back up. I was invested for Chapter 0, but when I got to Chapter 1... I just couldn't bring myself to care enough to keep going.
Tomatoes are fruits. Gotcha.
How embarrassing for you. Completely and utterly destroyed.
@@phosphorescenceking6114 Yeah. So are cucumbers.
Okay, I’ve seen the video and I think a lot of your specific criticisms regarding perceived plot holes have to do with not having skipped over a lot of dialogue.
I agree that the ending is predictable. But I really liked how Rain Code tackled the theme of "harsh truth vs beautiful lies", which I didn't like as much in V3.
Spoilers ahead...
To me, this narrative portrays a much better example of why lies can be so endearing, compared to the truth. Although life in Kanai Ward was really freaking weird, the people pretended everything was okay, because thinking too much would raise questions that they didn't want answered. Why is it raining all the time? Why is our blood pink? Why are we not allowed to contact the outside world? Why does everybody love meat buns so much? Everyone dismisses those concerns because it's easier than searching for a harsh truth.
And what a cruel truth it was. Not only were they not human, not only did they unknowingly kill all the humans in Kanai Ward, not only do they become blood-thirsty zombies when exposed to sunlight, but their favorite food was human flesh. The tragedy of that city is soul-crushing. Makoto did everything in his power to shelter the people of Kanai Ward from the truth. He believed that trapping the homunculi in lies would keep them safe. But what it really did was allow Amaterasu Corporation to rule the city through fear and violence. Ultimately, Makoto couldn't keep that lie going forever. It's not fair to decide the fate of so many people by himself, they needed to learn the truth so they can build a path forward.
In my opinion, Makoto's motivation to lie is much more compelling than any sort of reasoning that the antagonists of V3 had to lie. Tsumugi just wanted to create entertainment out of people's suffering (which is basically what Junko already did in the first game, if you think about it). And who the hell knows what was going on in Kokichis head half of the time?
But I do agree with some of your critiques to the story. Chapters 1 through 3 feel like they don't impact the main plot at all. Characters come and go without leaving any lasting impression on the player. Chapter 5 was really dragged out: it doesn't take long for the player to understand all the upcoming plot twists, but Yuma still takes so long to get there. And the fact that the real Yuma suddenly found out a substitute for human meat at the end is such a copout. Speaking of which, I also felt that the epilogue was missing a conclusion for the homunculi who died and were sent to the forbidden area. Are they going to be hungry and mindless for the rest of eternity? Is nobody going to research a way to rehabilitate them? It's weird how there's just no mention of them in the epilogue.
I overall thought the game was meh.
But I hated the mystery in chapter 3, IT MAKES NO SENSE. When it was revealed that "swim guy" flooded the whole city to steal safes (which apparently everyone keeps on the ground floor) I lost it. It is the only twist that surprised me because of how much it makes no sense. "swim guy" had no reason to kill "boss guy" the game tries to say he killed him to pin the flooding and robbery on him (makes no sense he was dead while the robberies were happening). And it wasn't reactionary because he shot the guy as soon as he opened the door and had an escape route planned. ALSO the "engineer guy" didn't think about how the cameras he gave us had bombs in them?
. . .
7/10
I'm honestly disappointed. Not just because I disagree overall with your opinions, since you're allowed to think whatever you want, but because so many of your issues with it are either major nitpicks, calling out plotholes that aren't really plotholes, or things you don't do a good job of elaborating upon and simply state "it's bad". I don't know how you can say you unironically like DR but think Rain Code is bad when the writing and story structure are so similar. There are things that this game did that weren't amazing at times, the villains being one of those things since all of them except Yomi and Makoto are just one-off antagonists that don't contribute much, but really nothing that destroys the experience or leaves me scratching my head confused. You didn't experience this game under the right conditions in the slightest, so I don't see how you can fairly critique it. Overall, I expected more.
You're more than welcome to think that. We knew going into this that we weren't going to be able to experience this "as intended", but we just wanted to talk about our weird experience with the game. Phos said "We don't have a whole lot we like about this game", and that's true. So we did focus on the nitpicks because that was more prominent in our minds and we got a little silly with it. We didn't plan out much of our dialogue or conversation beats, so maybe something we'd call a "plot hole" is really just something that we didn't think made sense. It just didn't work for us. All this to say is still, thank you for the comment.
@@thetiniestleaf I appreciate the response. Thanks for taking the time to read my comment
I can't speak entirely for Tiny here, but for me, I don't see review or analysis to exist for the sake of convincing people of my opinions. I've spent a huge portion of my life being really deep into media analysis and review, and if I've learned anything, its that no matter how hard you try, things will always eventually wind up at a statement of "i think this is good and this other thing is bad." Art doesn't exist to create homogeny with everyone agreeing and feeling the same as each other, its just a collection of different people who have very different ways of looking at things, and different emotions. You can have people who disagree because they consciously have different values or analysis, and you can have people who simply feel differently for reasons that only your actual feelings could explain. Anyways, I don't bother trying to convince people to feel similarly to me, I think that's unproductive and leads to pointless conflict about whose feelings are more right, when we should be having fun with it and getting intrigued by all the different ideas and perspectives and studying why we feel what we feel. There are just so many infinite things we'd have to explain to begin with to try to justify why we like DR but didn't like this. I don't think either of us jate Rain Code, we just didn't have much fun with it, we were mostly bored. There's so much we'd have to explain about our own taste, in a macro and a micro sense, from overall structure to minute moment to moment details like the prose of written dialogue, that impact our entire experience.
With that being said, I am curious which plot issues we brought up that you would argue actually make sense. Please let us know if we missed something, it's entirely possible, especially near the end.
@@phosphorescenceking6114 Plot issues I agree with:
-Most of the villains are underutilised besides Yomi and Makoto. I wish they had a bit more depth, or at least appeared more outside the chapter they were introduced in.
-All the culprits in Chapter 1 not having names is dumb, and they should've been given proper names to make them feel more like tangible characters.
-The game should've better elaborated on what happens to Makoto if they solve the Mystery Labyrinth in Chapter 5, since he's immortal and wouldn't die from it presumably.
That's really it. Maybe there's at least one more, but I can't remember off the top of my head. I generally disagreed with everything else to varying degrees.
I skipped this video when it came out because my brother and I were playing the game, but we burnt out on it by the start of chapter 2...we were uncomfortable with Disguise detective's obvious prurient interests in sneaking into the girls' school, and what felt like a 20-minute school play cutscene before the next person died was the nail in the coffin. We were interested and I liked the mystery labyrinth concept but we just couldn't handle the pacing. Chapter 0 was going fine until we discovered *none of these people* were going to remain relevant and it tanked my engagement. I'm gonna have to get some spoilers to find out what happened.
I widely agreed with your points, though Im sure people are pointing out that a lot of your gripes with the latter half of the game stemmed from just "wanting it over with and rushing past details" which is understandable from both viewpoints. Just small stuff like Plot Point X not being addressed when it very blatantly was, or side character Y disappearing when they do appear in side quests which you skipped. It's frustrating to hear and a bit unfair, but its all ultimately inane corrections and nitpicks in the overall opinion.
The broad strokes, like Yuma being a total blank bore of a protagonist, Shinigami's fickleness to the point of absurdity from chapter to chapter, the powers and Yuma's influence on cases not mattering in the slightest, how only ONE (one) character confronts Yuma about being a mass murderer and the moral implications is just brushed aside, how only like 2-4 characters are even relevant... I have to agree.
Yeah, we understand our disinterest in the game definitely impacted how much we retained details. So as far as criticisms about us forgetting specific details, I believe that’s 100% fair. I am legit curious though, what characters do reappear in side quests? Because what we had gathered from the first chapter they were introduced in was that most of them featured unnamed side characters.
@@thetiniestleafI didn't talk to you about this, but some characters like Servant or Nun from chapter 1 come back in later side quests in a similar way to Ace Attorney one offs coming back to be assholes in a later game. I just didn't think it was worth mentioning because the point we were making was that the characters were boring and we didn't care about them and they were all highly disconnected from each other or the rest of the plot, hence why we called all the partners one off characters too, even though they're obviously around the whole game. I'm currently doing more research before I make an actual video breaking down the plotholes and contrivances, like I did for 13 Sentinels. I didn't think research was necessary before doing this collab because I didn't think our main issues were about plot cohesion, we were just bored and thought the story was overall pretty stupid and unengaging. Usually I'm extremely anxious about people telling me my plot analysis is wrong, so before most reviews I put an autistic level of time into research until I'm sure I know more about the product than any fan of it ever would. I'm, like, 95% sure that the game has disastrous plot logic issues, but I'll be happy to hash it out with a dissenter once I've memorized the game's script front to back. I'm assuming that what we missed out on was probably stuff to do with Yomi and Makoto, and maybe a couple excuses for certain things. Granted, if things are explained but the excuse is still stupid, like with the pink blood, I still don't think that means we made a mistake, it just means we don't buy the explanation or think it's reasonable. I have a long history of sniffing out the most obscure and detail oriented plot holes, I'm VERY confident that once I make sure I didn't miss anything, that I'll be able to prove a huge variety of plot holes exist in this game.
Overall i like this game , its flaws i already had for it got added on and amplified thanks to this video. I would still rank it a c+ or a 7/10 has alot of issues but overall i find it ok. It isn't worth 60 dollars in my opinion . Have a good one you 2.
Yeah this game really is Diet dangan, it was really lacking for every step forward it make it takes two step backward like I really dig Makoto as a main villain especially his goals but nearly every culprit was really lacking in the motive which i admit kodaka doesn't invest as much in the whydunnit as much as i want but this game is even worse at it not helping mystery lab is just not as fun as class trials and the really slow dialogue doesn't help
Chapter 4 hurts me because it could have been the best but like you said we barely spend time with the shocking culprit
Idk man this truly was an adventure game by Kodaka also yes this game needed an R18 scene with Yomi and Martina
I enjoyed it but I would still say not as good as danganronpa. I know the danganronpa games had fan service but the fan service in this game was wayyyy too much imo (and desuhiko is one of the most unlikeable characters in any video game ever haha). I feel like we didn't get to spend enough time with the characters either, which was kind of lame because I really liked the other master detectives. The scenery and atmosphere is also so genuinely cool but other than the errand running requests and the gumshoe gab, there's just not that much to do in the districts which I feel is a really big missed opportunity. One other thing is that I think this game was a bit more predictable than the danganronpa games, I felt like I could work out the culprit pretty early on in the mystery labyrinth and in chapter 4 I guessed it before the investigation even started (got pretty lucky though). On the topic of mystery labyrinths, they are genuinely so cool and I love how unique each one is for each chapter, definetly something rain code does better than danganronpa imo. Overall a pretty good experience and looking forward to the DLC cases, but I don't think it reached the peaks that danganronpa did.
You cut out the part where we debate the likelyhood of Shinigami also being racist. Why are you covering for her? I bet you and her are laughing behind my back! I bet you both talk late into the night about how much you LOVED Oppenheimer, don't you!
Curses, we’ve been foiled. 😔 (the racism debate sadly must’ve been lost among the Oppenheimer debate)
I liked it a fair bit, desuhiko should absolutely be reworked tho
He makes me gag 👁️👄👁️
It also went balls to the wall after chapter 3
I just started chapter 3, I’m afraid now lol 😦
I have a ton of problems with the game, it’s rly creepy a lot of times towards minors, (Although, it’s less than Despair Girls.) Some of it’s murders feel pretty lame compared to the others, like for example, chapter three was a pretty lame case compared to chapters zero, one, and two. I also dislike how they handled Halara as being non-binary, and how they handled the treatment of that by saying “Are they a boy or a girl?” (Them liking cats and dogs is cute though.) They had a black character that was mute mostly and was really aggressive and I don’t like how almost all the dark skinned characters in DR are usually stupid/inexperienced/aggressive. It feels kind of like colorism, chapter two felt really sad though, I kind of wished that in the game Shinigami asks the player if they should boom-kill the culprit, or let them live despite the things they have caused. I think it would be really cool to ask that question, because a lot of the culprits were morally questionable with their behavior, and how some were going to die after the thing was over, so like.. would killing be a type of mercy? I don’t know. Also, I think the fifth chapter felt really forced and I think the plot twist of Yuma being real while the other guy is a clone would be more interesting if it was Yuma who was the clone, and not the other guy. Also I believe in the head canon that Shinigami is the ghost of Junko Enoshima. A lot of the fan service made me uncomfortable, but a lot of the character designs were cool and thankfully there was no Kotoko/Monica pedophile stuff during the whole thing, so at least there was that. I also liked how they made new mini games like “crime scene reconstruction,” it’s really cool, but I kind of wish it was either a sequel to danganronpa, or just it’s own separate franchise.
i definitely agree with most of the things you said in this comment, although except for the one about choosing wether to kill the culprit or not. i feel like choosing would affect the emotional impact of the case, and make chapter 2 and 4 less heartbreaking, which imo is a core part of the case. i feel Yuma being forced to kill the murderer would make him question wether using the mystery labyrinths were worth it. simply letting the killer live would lessen the sacrifice for the truth.
@@viophoriaa Maybe instead of them dying, Shinigami could let you choose between them or the other master detectives that were in the place with you.
To be honest, this game looks much more lame compared to danganronpa. So much of this game seems like a step back or retrace of danganronpa. I do not like the new mascot/side kick too much as at best she is used for pure comedy and at worst she is used for blatant fan service (i have only seen the game upto the chapter with the nail man so she could be more important or deep as a character). The part that replaces the class trial where you have to shoot in danganronpa, lacks the energy that even the second danganronpa game had that then the third game would master. If i could compare the dangan v3 class debate sections it feels like i am in a constant rush to solve a complicated plot but in raincode, even when shinimgami mentions how that there is a time limit to solve everything it feels like i am solving a youtube riddle andmpaused the video.
wah
Honestly, I liked RainCode more than the main Danganronpa games because
1. it doesn't have a complete bullshit ending like 2 and V3 (the ending is actually really great)
2. there is no case that I really hated (only cases 3 was kinda dumb because of the villain's motive, the even cases are amazing however, case 2 is better than almost every DR case); the cases in general didn't feel as contrived as in DR.
3. the music is as great as in DR if not even better (but probably not as iconic),
4. i feel like the dialogue is not AS dumb as in DR.
5. I've never been a big fan of the socializing aspect of DR (it kinda ruined the pacing for me), so I'm glad it's not there,
6. the overarching plot is a lot better than in any DR game and it has a believable world.
7. Yuma is a better protagonst than any DR protagonist.
(EDIT) 8. I also like that, unlike DR, Rain Code has an official german translation which made it more accessible for me.
There are some issues, however: The loading times can be really long, most of the sidequests are kinda meh, some of the minigames (like the bomb defusal ones, or QTE) are stupid. But I mean, the gameplay in DR was always not as great as in Ace Attorney.
My biggest issue are the characters: They are either heavily underutilized (because they die too early or due to other reasons, especially the antagonists) or not that likeable/ interesting: Halara and Fubuki are kinda bland and Desuhiko is easily the worst character I've ever met in a video game. My favorite is Vivia, apart from the protagonist himself. The main villain and the finale in general are really cool (although pretty obvious).
My ranking of the games: Rain Code > DR 1 >>> DR 2 > DRV3
My ranking of the cases: 2 > 4 > 0 > 5 > 1 > 3
I can appreciate that perspective! I’m glad you liked the game!
We actually like DR because of those exact reasons, because DR is so silly and so ironic, its like comparing a disney movie to Shrek. Shrek is dumber, but its trying to be dumber, its trying to make an edgy obnoxious statement about all the things that are so dumb in it. The silliness lends to a higher suspension of disbelief, we can put up with a lot more unreasonable logic or emotions or character beats in a series that is so fundamentally unrealistic.
There's an interesting trend in the Yakuza games which also vary in terms of silliness and dumbness, where the games that people like more or less tend to be opposite based on how they think about media and their own respective suspension of disbelief. I love yakuza 4 and dislike yakuza 3, but for some people, they like 3 but dislike 4, because 4 is so fucking stupid, for me it loops back around to being fun and hilarious, and 3 is the one that's just dumb in a boring way, but for others who can tolerate 3's level of dumbness, they think 3 is fine, and that 4 is the actually dumb one.
Hajime and Yuma are 10/10, for me.
I am so glad for the pronoun cards in the art because BOY would I have gotten that wrong