Typically people refer to a product's origin the same as that of the company who owns the intellectual property. In this case, Raytheon is an American company who acquired Canadian ELCAN, so their products could be considered American products (if they sold in other countries around the world), as it's technically a Canadian subsidiary of an American company. This causes confusion to keep track of all brand entity origins of subsidiaries, so people op to refer to the product as the parent company's origin. Like Apple computers, these are considered an American computer, as Apple is an American company, despite almost all the parts and manufacturing of apple computers coming from Taiwan and sourced from hundreds of non-american suppliers and subsidiaries, yet still the brand IP is Apple, an American brand. ELCAN most certainly does not manufacture 100% of the optic, and also has many suppliers for various components. But you are correct, they are largely manufactured and assembled in Canada, and it sounds like you like Canada.
Buy a high quality American Optic, not a cheap Chinese knock-off...... unless it’s for air soft....... if your life depends on it what will you put on your rifle
Hi, obviously this video was made a long time ago, a decade. If you are still into this type of thing, do you like any fake optics built today? Have you checked out any ACOG AO2’s?
Tyson Stites don't know but I heard they didn't like the old rubber armored Elcans. A lot of Army guys are down on them too. Strong preferences for the ACOGs but what I have seen of SEALs is they sport high end shit just to rub it in your face that they are special stateside then in the field, it could be anything at all and really common for them to use foreign stuff just to make it look like it wasn't an American operation.
8digitPDX i dont doubt SEALs do stuff like that at all (rubbing your face in their unique gear). i personally love my ACOG (real one; ta31f), though ive never shot the specter, only held it. speaking of SEALs, im sick of hearing that they adopted the g19. literally one guy on m4carbine.net says he got issued holsters for a g19, and suddenly its official that NSW had adopted the g19. i wouldnt be surprised if it turned out to be true, but as of now, its just a rumor some guy who may or may not be SEAL said on an ar 15 forum.
Tyson Stites It varies by rank and who is operational vs who is still in training phases. A lot of their stuff is pretty diverse, like the guys who were sharing the range with a group I trained with were all fresh out of the swim portion of their early phase training. The instructors carried whatever they wanted on thigh rigs, the trainees, I don't think I saw much for sidearms. Just rifles, machine guns and knives. Sometimes they would just lie and say they are some other kind of unit, but there is something you can spot on them that is almost impossible to hide once you know what to look for.
I am looking for feedback from people on how these actually hold up under recoil. I am helping a friend set up a retail website and want some more extensive testing done before we go ahead and offer these for sale. I am specifically looking at the 4X version since the 1x-4X version, when it has problems, tends to have problems with the magnification adjustment.
Tom Paul I might be in touch on that, but generally speaking, optics assisted shooting at 200 meters is rarely "self defense". That's more like combat skills, which is fine, but I don't want to be bullshitting anyone on the endorsements but I have some other relevant gear that I might have you evaluate.
Tom Paul It is just a side thing I do with a friend of mine, I never really named the company yet. The way the law works in my area you can be in business for a year with less than $20K in sales and not need any special license as long as it is not firearms.
Tom Paul No, I am putting together an order for a batch of newer stuff. I need to get a half dozen of these at a time in order for shipping charges to make sense. Right now the only deal I could offer is to pitch in on the upcoming order, but you could get these south of $100 each. Normal ebay prices are $160ish, stores at around $180 to $250. NcStar has just come out with their own version but I don't have pricing on it yet. The Chinese put a lot into these and figure them to be their main world market offering. Other "clones" my friends did evaluations on did not hold up and we had so many customer complaints on the Acog clones that we will no longer import them.
I have a 3.5x35 with reddot Chinese acog and as much as I perfer American made I'd say it's almost identical they've got better at cloning our shit,I kinda wish I would have got the elcan though I like the 1x4x adjustable lever
I fixed the illumination issue, then loaned this to a friend for further evaluation. He tried it on two different rifles and says he had to run the adjustment all the way to one side just to center it. I will get word back in a few weeks about what went wrong, but until it is sorted out, I will not yet endorse these items.
Do you have some pictures about its optical system and elevation, windage in details? Can you capture them and send me to my email: namtranvvk@gmail.com. Thanks in advance!
I can ask the guy to get me pictures, but he is in a training course this weekend and may or may not be using the scope I loaned him for further evaluation. If it will not dial in right, he is switching back to his old scope and I will not be getting pictures. It looked pretty crooked when it was dialed in on a fixed range target, which might be a defective mount, but I heard the exact same thing from the buyer of the other scope I had. Parallel error we can compensate for, but angle error, it can dial in for one particular distance, and then at any other distance, the error actually gets worse, and random. The optics are excellent, but the mount appears to have problems.
+8digitPDX Noticed that the scope on the left had 4x - 1x magnification while the other only had 4x. Is this just due to the mass production/ quality control of these scopes? Or does the scope on the left have the internal structure for 1-4x but lacks the lever?
Thanks for the review. I have a clone SpecterDR 5.56 (su-230/pvs which has served me just fine. I've used it on both semi and full auto 65 grain rounds through clip after clip and it still works fine. I can tell you that an original SpecterDR uses a 3v DL 1/3N camera battery. It is has a much smaller diameter and is about 10 times taller. It will never fit in a Chinese clone. I would never spend over $2K on a scope or any optic other than a thermal sight. That's about 1/3 of the price of my best match rifle (dressed out). God, I'd be so afraid of breaking the thing that it would become a handicap. If it was issued to me, then that's another story. Fat chance.
Thanks for the feedback. I also never got the idea of a $2500 scope that did not have "PVS" somewhere in its designator. So to confirm, you figure the clones hold up well? They seemed pretty solid to me and the only thing I would question is the BDC, but I don't have enough range time with it to offer an informed opinion on that aspect of it, hence the tabletop review and not a range review.
Believe it or not my clone, after they replaces the original with the crooked cross hairs, has held up to about 2000 rounds of 5.56 x 45. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. I'm very surprised. No movement of the cross hairs, the mount holds firm as long as you clamp it all the way. I hope this helps.
Do you have any experience with the 1-4x models having different zeroes at 1x and 4x? It seems to be it would require some manual adjustment at the factory to have the same zero at both settings. Something that might not be worth the labor cost given the market for these things but of course there's hardly any data on it.
There have been others who did reviews on the 1-4x models and they report that the adjustment mechanism fails over time but the shift in point of impact when making the adjustment was not severe enough to matter. Do your precision sighting adjustments at 4x. The margin of error at 1x is primarily a function of the shooter skill, not whether the point of impact changed by an inch at closer distances once the scope is set at 4x. He problems reported were related to internal parts breakage in the zoom mechanism which led to the crosshairs shifting badly out of adjustment.
8digitPDX Thanks for the quick reply. You sold me on a 4x only even just for a 22LR fun gun. BTW, do you know what the difference is between the models with the 45 degree(?) offset for the reflex mount and the ones with the flat 0 degree reflex mount? All of the Chinese sellers have the flat 0 degree mount while the Phantom has an offset mount. I'm thinking the Phantom is an older design that the Chinese sellers aren't carrying anymore but there's still a bunch of new old stock for the Phantom runs. www.evike.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=135&products_id=37236
Shao Zhang The offset iron sight is just `the default option from the factory, but it comes with extra iron sights which you can install in the offset holes, either left or right, and then slightly adjustable for each one, so all of them I know of can be set up either left or right with offset sights, and the scope comes in the box with a tiny ziploc baggie with extra iron sights in it. If you look at them carefully, you will discover that they are different heights.
I provided them to people using them on 5.56 rifles and the reviews are mixed except some other people using the 1-4x models say the variable magnification eventually fails under stress. The 4X only model has a lower failure rate.
How do you find these chinese replicas? I have only seen Phantom and G&G on the market, which are Airsoft replicas. Did you friend ever get his site running?
+Letterman87USM We did a few import batches and he put them on ebay. I was getting mixed feedback from people using these on live firearms. You can find these from a few suppliers on alibaba, but the real trick is stateside quality control. We had orders from the Chinese suppliers where up to 75% of the items in the order were defective in some way and had to either get junked, or sold at a steep discount. For example, the Acog clones were often so bad we were selling them slightly below wholesale as movie props.
JQ Pundt TV-Radio- I have one that a guy sent back to me and had some wiggle issues in the mount that the customer didn't like. It would probably be fine for use on an airsoft gun or .22, but not for any serious combat usage.
Personally I cant justify spending $100 plus on a airsoftgun when it comes to that.But I wouldnt mind a 4 power scope on a hi point carbine.Had a replica eohtech before and a replica magnifier.Pretty informitive review was looking for a scope for my airsoft m14. You get a subcriber by the way.
I’d rather not use a cheap knock off, you can equip a quad cheaply for a hundred or two more with LPVO (low power variable optic), red dots. Only name brands aimpoint, holosun, vortex, trijicon, eotech. Anyways if you use your equipment, you know spending money on good glass is worth every from, eye relief, field of view, optical zoom, consistent accuracy, ect. When you shoot hundreds, thousands of rounds a year in various conditions from safe ranges to rugged dynamic environments and rages up to 800-1000 yards. Equipment and training matter. It comes down to mission set and priorities. I’d rather have (and I do) suppressors, night vision, IR, solid AR/ pistol with rmr, optics, training and ammo; over old antique guns, 15 cheap guns, sports cars, ect you get my point. I learned the hard way, save your money, do your research. buy once, cry once.
We took a shot of Jameson every time you said reckticle and not reticle... Fooking hammered
Can this replica Elcan Be utilized on a real AR and still hold zero?
Most of these sorts of knock offs seem ok for target use, they do eventually lose zero though, anywhere from 1 to 1000 rounds
The Elcan is not an American optic, it's made in Canada.
Typically people refer to a product's origin the same as that of the company who owns the intellectual property. In this case, Raytheon is an American company who acquired Canadian ELCAN, so their products could be considered American products (if they sold in other countries around the world), as it's technically a Canadian subsidiary of an American company. This causes confusion to keep track of all brand entity origins of subsidiaries, so people op to refer to the product as the parent company's origin.
Like Apple computers, these are considered an American computer, as Apple is an American company, despite almost all the parts and manufacturing of apple computers coming from Taiwan and sourced from hundreds of non-american suppliers and subsidiaries, yet still the brand IP is Apple, an American brand.
ELCAN most certainly does not manufacture 100% of the optic, and also has many suppliers for various components. But you are correct, they are largely manufactured and assembled in Canada, and it sounds like you like Canada.
Evan Whitelaw
By Raytheon, a US company.
Buy a high quality American Optic, not a cheap Chinese knock-off...... unless it’s for air soft.......
if your life depends on it what will you put on your rifle
New ones now use CR2032.
Such a badass Colt scope ya got there..Semper Fi
Back in the day, I was threatened with an article 15 for mounting it on my rifle without prior approval...
Can you do a test to see if it will hold a zero on 5.56?
Any update on this scope?
Hi, obviously this video was made a long time ago, a decade. If you are still into this type of thing, do you like any fake optics built today? Have you checked out any ACOG AO2’s?
Does it hold zero at least
Can someone please show me how to swap the battery on these?
seals are using the spectre-dr, too. its part of the sopmod block 2 program, so all SOF has access to it. i wonder if they like it. its very heavy.
Tyson Stites don't know but I heard they didn't like the old rubber armored Elcans. A lot of Army guys are down on them too. Strong preferences for the ACOGs but what I have seen of SEALs is they sport high end shit just to rub it in your face that they are special stateside then in the field, it could be anything at all and really common for them to use foreign stuff just to make it look like it wasn't an American operation.
8digitPDX i dont doubt SEALs do stuff like that at all (rubbing your face in their unique gear). i personally love my ACOG (real one; ta31f), though ive never shot the specter, only held it. speaking of SEALs, im sick of hearing that they adopted the g19. literally one guy on m4carbine.net says he got issued holsters for a g19, and suddenly its official that NSW had adopted the g19. i wouldnt be surprised if it turned out to be true, but as of now, its just a rumor some guy who may or may not be SEAL said on an ar 15 forum.
Tyson Stites It varies by rank and who is operational vs who is still in training phases. A lot of their stuff is pretty diverse, like the guys who were sharing the range with a group I trained with were all fresh out of the swim portion of their early phase training. The instructors carried whatever they wanted on thigh rigs, the trainees, I don't think I saw much for sidearms. Just rifles, machine guns and knives. Sometimes they would just lie and say they are some other kind of unit, but there is something you can spot on them that is almost impossible to hide once you know what to look for.
Tyson Stites THE seals and nswc have not adopted it per say, but there are quite a few units that chose the g19 over p320s, m9s, 1911s etc
Tyson Stites but all of those are used.
where did you buy youres looking forward on buying this but cant seem to find it
Which replica doesn’t have a poi shift?
Only for airsoft?
I am looking for feedback from people on how these actually hold up under recoil. I am helping a friend set up a retail website and want some more extensive testing done before we go ahead and offer these for sale. I am specifically looking at the 4X version since the 1x-4X version, when it has problems, tends to have problems with the magnification adjustment.
Myn couldn't keep it's adjustment on my .308 rifle it kept moving at least an inch so I would not recommend it for that caliber.
Tom Paul
I might be in touch on that, but generally speaking, optics assisted shooting at 200 meters is rarely "self defense". That's more like combat skills, which is fine, but I don't want to be bullshitting anyone on the endorsements but I have some other relevant gear that I might have you evaluate.
Tom Paul
It is just a side thing I do with a friend of mine, I never really named the company yet. The way the law works in my area you can be in business for a year with less than $20K in sales and not need any special license as long as it is not firearms.
Tom Paul
No, I am putting together an order for a batch of newer stuff. I need to get a half dozen of these at a time in order for shipping charges to make sense. Right now the only deal I could offer is to pitch in on the upcoming order, but you could get these south of $100 each. Normal ebay prices are $160ish, stores at around $180 to $250. NcStar has just come out with their own version but I don't have pricing on it yet. The Chinese put a lot into these and figure them to be their main world market offering. Other "clones" my friends did evaluations on did not hold up and we had so many customer complaints on the Acog clones that we will no longer import them.
8digitPDX I'd like one of the Elcan scopes you demd
Which one do you like more, elcan spectre replica or the trijicon acog replica?
I have a 3.5x35 with reddot Chinese acog and as much as I perfer American made I'd say it's almost identical they've got better at cloning our shit,I kinda wish I would have got the elcan though I like the 1x4x adjustable lever
Where did you find the Colt clone scope you showed in the beginning of your video? Been trying to find one for a build I am working on.
Have you fixed it? I do not know about its mounting structure I mean its elevation and windage mechanisms? Could you show me? Thanks in advance!
I fixed the illumination issue, then loaned this to a friend for further evaluation. He tried it on two different rifles and says he had to run the adjustment all the way to one side just to center it. I will get word back in a few weeks about what went wrong, but until it is sorted out, I will not yet endorse these items.
Do you have some pictures about its optical system and elevation, windage in details? Can you capture them and send me to my email: namtranvvk@gmail.com. Thanks in advance!
I can ask the guy to get me pictures, but he is in a training course this weekend and may or may not be using the scope I loaned him for further evaluation. If it will not dial in right, he is switching back to his old scope and I will not be getting pictures. It looked pretty crooked when it was dialed in on a fixed range target, which might be a defective mount, but I heard the exact same thing from the buyer of the other scope I had. Parallel error we can compensate for, but angle error, it can dial in for one particular distance, and then at any other distance, the error actually gets worse, and random. The optics are excellent, but the mount appears to have problems.
Thanks you so much 8digitPDX! I am very looking forward to hearing from you. Best wishes!
What is the Chinesium brand?
Got a link to where it's sold?
+8digitPDX Noticed that the scope on the left had 4x - 1x magnification while the other only had 4x. Is this just due to the mass production/ quality control of these scopes? Or does the scope on the left have the internal structure for 1-4x but lacks the lever?
They come two different ways, with the 4x model being more robust and cheaper due to not having the internal moving parts.
I'm going to buy the Chinese copy and tell you guys how it holds up on my AR
how did it go?
The Meme DaddyG ...waiting
howd it go?
How did it go??
The Meme DaddyG A man's word is his bond, How is the clone holding up 1 year later ?
that Colt scope is so badass. i wish i had that for my '67 Colt sp-1. i still prefer my (real) acog over the spectre dr.
Yep i want one for my airsoft gun? How much was it? China one. i'm not rich
Thanks for the review. I have a clone SpecterDR 5.56 (su-230/pvs which has served me just fine. I've used it on both semi and full auto 65 grain rounds through clip after clip and it still works fine. I can tell you that an original SpecterDR uses a 3v DL 1/3N camera battery. It is has a much smaller diameter and is about 10 times taller. It will never fit in a Chinese clone.
I would never spend over $2K on a scope or any optic other than a thermal sight. That's about 1/3 of the price of my best match rifle (dressed out). God, I'd be so afraid of breaking the thing that it would become a handicap. If it was issued to me, then that's another story. Fat chance.
Thanks for the feedback. I also never got the idea of a $2500 scope that did not have "PVS" somewhere in its designator. So to confirm, you figure the clones hold up well? They seemed pretty solid to me and the only thing I would question is the BDC, but I don't have enough range time with it to offer an informed opinion on that aspect of it, hence the tabletop review and not a range review.
Michael B. how has your clone held up in the past year??
Believe it or not my clone, after they replaces the original with the crooked cross hairs, has held up to about 2000 rounds of 5.56 x 45. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. I'm very surprised. No movement of the cross hairs, the mount holds firm as long as you clamp it all the way.
I hope this helps.
Buy a real Elcan! You will not regret it thing is a fucking tank and glass is crystal clear..
Do you have any experience with the 1-4x models having different zeroes at 1x and 4x? It seems to be it would require some manual adjustment at the factory to have the same zero at both settings. Something that might not be worth the labor cost given the market for these things but of course there's hardly any data on it.
There have been others who did reviews on the 1-4x models and they report that the adjustment mechanism fails over time but the shift in point of impact when making the adjustment was not severe enough to matter. Do your precision sighting adjustments at 4x. The margin of error at 1x is primarily a function of the shooter skill, not whether the point of impact changed by an inch at closer distances once the scope is set at 4x. He problems reported were related to internal parts breakage in the zoom mechanism which led to the crosshairs shifting badly out of adjustment.
8digitPDX
Thanks for the quick reply. You sold me on a 4x only even just for a 22LR fun gun.
BTW, do you know what the difference is between the models with the 45 degree(?) offset for the reflex mount and the ones with the flat 0 degree reflex mount? All of the Chinese sellers have the flat 0 degree mount while the Phantom has an offset mount. I'm thinking the Phantom is an older design that the Chinese sellers aren't carrying anymore but there's still a bunch of new old stock for the Phantom runs.
www.evike.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=135&products_id=37236
Shao Zhang
The offset iron sight is just `the default option from the factory, but it comes with extra iron sights which you can install in the offset holes, either left or right, and then slightly adjustable for each one, so all of them I know of can be set up either left or right with offset sights, and the scope comes in the box with a tiny ziploc baggie with extra iron sights in it. If you look at them carefully, you will discover that they are different heights.
where to purchase? Just curious I see a lot of airsoft but IM guessing the chinese knockoff is different.
the real deal uses Battery type: DL 1/3N (3v Lithium)
Did you ever get the 1-4x model? Do you know how well these hold up on 22LR? 5.56? 7.62x39?
I provided them to people using them on 5.56 rifles and the reviews are mixed except some other people using the 1-4x models say the variable magnification eventually fails under stress. The 4X only model has a lower failure rate.
8digitPDX Thanks!
Also, have you looked at the replica ACOGs?
Shao Zhang
Yes, and I recently did a side by side review: Real vs Replica Trijicon ACOG TA31 side by side comparison
How do you find these chinese replicas? I have only seen Phantom and G&G on the market, which are Airsoft replicas. Did you friend ever get his site running?
+Letterman87USM We did a few import batches and he put them on ebay. I was getting mixed feedback from people using these on live firearms. You can find these from a few suppliers on alibaba, but the real trick is stateside quality control. We had orders from the Chinese suppliers where up to 75% of the items in the order were defective in some way and had to either get junked, or sold at a steep discount. For example, the Acog clones were often so bad we were selling them slightly below wholesale as movie props.
+8digitPDX Oh okay. What were some of the common defects of them, minus the green illumination that you spoke of in the video? Any reticle issues?
Letterman87USM Crooked reticule, inoperable illumination. Mount requiring extreme left/right adjustment just to zero.
Oh, also MARSOC units use the Specter DRs
How do I get one of these? Pm me please
JQ Pundt TV-Radio- I have one that a guy sent back to me and had some wiggle issues in the mount that the customer didn't like. It would probably be fine for use on an airsoft gun or .22, but not for any serious combat usage.
8digitPDX I'm using it on a colt AR 15 M4 22 LR for plinking so maybe if the price is right.
Personally I cant justify spending $100 plus on a airsoftgun when it comes to that.But I wouldnt mind a 4 power scope on a hi point carbine.Had a replica eohtech before and a replica magnifier.Pretty informitive review was looking for a scope for my airsoft m14.
You get a subcriber by the way.
Nice Hickory table top......
we had these on the 249s and 240s....i hated them. :/
If China is going to be issuing crap to soilders. I imagine them getting into 1 fire fight and having to re zero or swap to irons
They'll have 10 soldiers vs 1......I say that's plenty of an advantage still
I’d rather not use a cheap knock off, you can equip a quad cheaply for a hundred or two more with LPVO (low power variable optic), red dots. Only name brands aimpoint, holosun, vortex, trijicon, eotech. Anyways if you use your equipment, you know spending money on good glass is worth every from, eye relief, field of view, optical zoom, consistent accuracy, ect. When you shoot hundreds, thousands of rounds a year in various conditions from safe ranges to rugged dynamic environments and rages up to 800-1000 yards. Equipment and training matter. It comes down to mission set and priorities. I’d rather have (and I do) suppressors, night vision, IR, solid AR/ pistol with rmr, optics, training and ammo; over old antique guns, 15 cheap guns, sports cars, ect you get my point. I learned the hard way, save your money, do your research. buy once, cry once.
Well said you’ve convinced me to pass up to $250 Elcan “like” optic