Hehe. Because there are so many buttons now on hit boxes, the future of fighting games would no longer have motion inputs... you have to type and spell the moves... h-a-d-o-k-e-n ⌨️
The thumb button is so low because in smash the home row on the right hand is the bottom row, and for fighting games it tends to be the top, I think if they added more options for thumb button locations it would be a lot more accommodating to different layouts
This would be great for someone like me who jumps between SF6 and Smash Melee on two different hitboxes. Smash layouts are wildly different to typicaly FGC - might be interesting to see you test this on smash!
While they're pretty different mapping-wise, a leverless built for Smash still works very well for other fighting games. I built some Open-Frame1s and when you put HayBox into FGC mode things are pretty much right where you'd expect them to be (some of the options buttons are in an odd spot, shoved where the c-stick buttons normally are since they're not normally bound in the default layout). They even handle the split by making a thumb button on each side bound to up, so regardless of which thumb you normally use for that you're still good to go. I see the usual cramped layout as pointless to keep around.
@@NihongoGamer Haha all good! Im a box melee player (we often call them boxes or rectangles in the smash community) so it was just a lil quirky to me :)
As a little side detail, the default layouts for smash leverless controllers is specifically taylored around spacie (fox and falco) tech skill in melee, which is part of why i found the constant mention of ultimate rather than melee a little funny 😁
I tried this out at Genesis last weekend. They displayed a version of the glyph with a mini LCD screen near the option buttons that displays what layout you're using, and it even has a button visualizer
I haven't watched the video yet, but I look at that layout and immediately I'm seeing all the ways I'm gonna accidentally misinput things I don't actually intend to do because I don't know where to put my wrists. Edit: Now that I see how the faceplates work, that's pretty darn cool
This is cool, but having owned hitboxes, mixboxes; 18 button, 16 button, cross ups etc my controller now? A keyboard, Can literally do anything I want with it in regards to how I play
The main advantages to a dedicated leverless controller over a keyboard are - console support (though I'm curious if anyone's gotta GP2040-CE working on one of the RP2040-based mech keyboards like the recent revisions of the Iris) - can rearrange the buttons in a different layout from your keyboard (different curves/spacing) - button cap shape can be round or square or whatever you're into, can also be bigger than on a keyboard - works with little to no configuration in most games since it's configured like a standard controller - you might prefer e.g. linear switches for fighting games and clicky switches for general computing - in the case of platform fighters with analog movement, you can have modifier keys to emulate different distances and angles of an analog stick to allow both walking and running I'm guessing you mainly play on PC and don't go to tournaments where they use consoles and you're okay with the trade-offs. I'm in a similar boat but will sometimes play on consoles with friends and enjoy a lot of the features a dedicated controller gives me.
impossible, all the buttons still need a wiring harness to go to the pcb, once you slide them around clockwise once, they'd break the wires. if you went the opposite direction and designed a pogopin pcb, that's no different than each button having a dedicated hole. and if you COULD get sliding across the fascia, that means every button would need an ic to id one button from another, otherwise there's be no way to recognize which button goes where. and all the above options raise the price, where we start getting in to the $500+ USD category
@@natayaway >that means every button would need an ic to id one button from another Yep, that's how the Dumang DK6 works. Definitely not $500+ but I am seeing one site selling it for $379, so pretty expensive anyway.
IMO nothing beats a good lever that actually suits your preferences. Too many people try those crappy Sanwa JLFs with erectile dysfunction and assume they don't like any sticks.
I know they’re probably more expensive but I wish companies did more sticks where it has leverless and stick on the same pad. Would like more variety in the selections rn
this is actually pretty cool for someone who wants to try different leverless layouts without constantly buying and returning controllers. Take it from someone who has done so 3 times at this point lol
Can I get a link to show my support? Im just teying to find a good budget leverless to play both tekken and sf. Then if I learn that I like leverless then I will be more willing to pay 200$+
@@NihongoGamer i appreciate it. Do you have a recommendation for a leverless controller around 100 usd. Im new to fighting games with my first in this decade being tekken 8. I am really searching for a leverless because its most close to a keyboard imo
I have been heavily considering this controller for months. My only issue is that I dont use box for platform fighters, but that might change since it might be possible to use a wii nunchuck with this board, at least in the patreon stuff they said you could but it looks like they removed that maybe? I still want it and will probably buy one while intoxicated one night. I like to have buttons on buttons so the full layout would just be my default. For Tekken I would use as many as possible. For SF I would probably stay with mostly the default layout. I really want to try smash (melee) with this thing and a nunchuck and possibly rivals 2.
I think making the switch is worth it. Being able to jump and immediately hit a c-button for an aerial with a different finger is pretty sweet. Also the modifier button to walk means you don't have to try as hard to push the stick the right amount, and you can drop from a run to a walk immediately and precisely. I've got an Open-Frame1 I've played a lot of Rivals of Aether and Smash Ultimate with.
Looks very interesting. I would love to be able to change the layout of buttons for different FG's. Two questions I have are how does it work on PC, do I need to run it through a wingman or can it just plug straight in. Can we download fullsize layouts so we can print them out and see how they fit our hands, mine look way smaller than yours and I'm worried about my thumb not reaching.
ive been wondering when someone would do something like this, i build mechanical keyboards and they could just make a pcb with a bunch of options on where to place switches for hotswap
The leverless trend has officially jumped the shark. And become a complete ripoff at the same time. The cheaper bill of materials is supposed to be one of the benefits!
I made one myself almost 200$ - Fusion board 130$ - Sanwa buttons 50$ - Wires 15$ - Case free if you choose a shoebox, but I 3D printed mine because I know how to design so 15$ Total 195$ Now if someones sells them there is not a lot of margin if you buy a ps5 compatible fightstick.
$259.99? Na I'm good fam. cool concept I guess but lets be real you're going to set this to one configuration and leave it there forever, so just buy that configuration for less than a third of the price.
I've been looking for something like the Split FCG layout. It looks almost perfect for me. I hope they will refine it and sell it as a cheaper standalone option too.
I'm at work, so I can't watch yet, but can you assign the extra buttons to move the camera in 3rd person games, if you wanted? Or is it restricted to Smash Bros for the extra inputs? I'm looking at something like that and wondering how I can use it to replace my gamepad while playing Dark Souls, for instance.
The c-stick buttons are just acting as a right analog stick, so they work for controlling the camera in a game, though they're digital inputs so it's like pushing the stick all the way in each direction (would probably move the camera pretty fast). I played a bit of Super Mario Sunshine with a controller similar to this (Open-Frame1, running the same HayBox firmware). You'd probably wanna do quick taps to adjust the camera instead of holding the buttons most of the time, but you'd run into issues like overshooting where you meant to stop and it might feel a bit clunky. If the game you're playing allows you to adjust the camera stick sensitivity then this could possibly be viable. There are modifier buttons for how much the left stick is pushed, but as far as I know they haven't made anything similar for the right stick buttons, since in Smash it doesn't matter.
being able to program your own custom layout is imo this thing's biggest draw if they actually manage to implement it in the final release. I personally use the GAMO2 K28 keyboard style controller because I'm a weirdo who likes using the arrow keys for directional inputs and there are so few options for leverless controllers that actually lets you configure it in a way that I can use my right hand for WASD style directional inputs while having enough buttons while having enough buttons for my left hand for action inputs.
i’m here to learn Piano
Start with The Virtuoso Pianist by Charles Louis Hanon and you will be a master in no time
@@NihongoGamer just ordered it lmao
@@NihongoGamer I started with the Daigo Parry and I perfectly mastered the Moonlight Sonata movement 3 now
Hehe. Because there are so many buttons now on hit boxes, the future of fighting games would no longer have motion inputs... you have to type and spell the moves... h-a-d-o-k-e-n ⌨️
Ngl that would be an awesome game
The thumb button is so low because in smash the home row on the right hand is the bottom row, and for fighting games it tends to be the top, I think if they added more options for thumb button locations it would be a lot more accommodating to different layouts
I see! Well, that makes sense!
This would be great for someone like me who jumps between SF6 and Smash Melee on two different hitboxes. Smash layouts are wildly different to typicaly FGC - might be interesting to see you test this on smash!
While they're pretty different mapping-wise, a leverless built for Smash still works very well for other fighting games. I built some Open-Frame1s and when you put HayBox into FGC mode things are pretty much right where you'd expect them to be (some of the options buttons are in an odd spot, shoved where the c-stick buttons normally are since they're not normally bound in the default layout). They even handle the split by making a thumb button on each side bound to up, so regardless of which thumb you normally use for that you're still good to go. I see the usual cramped layout as pointless to keep around.
remember the memes about iPhone rear cameras? The same is happening now with hitboxes but not in memes
They should cover the whole front with buttons, and then you just move them. That would be the perfect controller.
My brother developed a system for playing Rocket League with just the keyboard, inspired by learning to play hitbox, this could be useful for him.
I find it funny how he always specifies smash ultimate but never melee, considering there are far more leverless melee players than ult
Force of habit. I always say ultimate because it’s the only one I currently own. I played melee a bit as a kid but I don’t have a GameCube anymore.
@@NihongoGamer Haha all good! Im a box melee player (we often call them boxes or rectangles in the smash community) so it was just a lil quirky to me :)
As a little side detail, the default layouts for smash leverless controllers is specifically taylored around spacie (fox and falco) tech skill in melee, which is part of why i found the constant mention of ultimate rather than melee a little funny 😁
I tried this out at Genesis last weekend. They displayed a version of the glyph with a mini LCD screen near the option buttons that displays what layout you're using, and it even has a button visualizer
Dude this is the EXACT one i designed in my head . Trying to find a Vertibox , but nowhere to be found.
There should some caps that can go into the holes that are not being used so they are flush with the board. Just an idea
I haven't watched the video yet, but I look at that layout and immediately I'm seeing all the ways I'm gonna accidentally misinput things I don't actually intend to do because I don't know where to put my wrists.
Edit: Now that I see how the faceplates work, that's pretty darn cool
So when will we all figure out that this trend is diverging into mechanical keyboards
These prices are getting out of hand.
Just started playing keyboard this week.
You can get a real good keyboard for sub 100.
It feels way more natural than it sounds.😅
You need a map to find the right button I guess using a 30 buttons leverless. ;)
If all button inserted..... U could type like a normal key board already
Just needs more spaces like you said and if it had a port for a fight stick then it would be the ultimate lol
THE fgc controller lord is back with another banger🔥
This s is perfect for my large man hands!
I like my controllers to have no less than 128 buttons
Would u be able to buy only the pcb? That would be nice
Not sure but the controller is also designed with expansion bays for some reason. Maybe they’re planning on expansion modules
This is cool, but having owned hitboxes, mixboxes; 18 button, 16 button, cross ups etc my controller now? A keyboard,
Can literally do anything I want with it in regards to how I play
The main advantages to a dedicated leverless controller over a keyboard are
- console support (though I'm curious if anyone's gotta GP2040-CE working on one of the RP2040-based mech keyboards like the recent revisions of the Iris)
- can rearrange the buttons in a different layout from your keyboard (different curves/spacing)
- button cap shape can be round or square or whatever you're into, can also be bigger than on a keyboard
- works with little to no configuration in most games since it's configured like a standard controller
- you might prefer e.g. linear switches for fighting games and clicky switches for general computing
- in the case of platform fighters with analog movement, you can have modifier keys to emulate different distances and angles of an analog stick to allow both walking and running
I'm guessing you mainly play on PC and don't go to tournaments where they use consoles and you're okay with the trade-offs. I'm in a similar boat but will sometimes play on consoles with friends and enjoy a lot of the features a dedicated controller gives me.
How crazy would it be to have a magnetic board where the buttons slide around?
There's a keyboard that did this. Dumang DK6. Xah Lee's website has a page on it.
impossible, all the buttons still need a wiring harness to go to the pcb, once you slide them around clockwise once, they'd break the wires.
if you went the opposite direction and designed a pogopin pcb, that's no different than each button having a dedicated hole. and if you COULD get sliding across the fascia, that means every button would need an ic to id one button from another, otherwise there's be no way to recognize which button goes where. and all the above options raise the price, where we start getting in to the $500+ USD category
@@natayaway >that means every button would need an ic to id one button from another
Yep, that's how the Dumang DK6 works. Definitely not $500+ but I am seeing one site selling it for $379, so pretty expensive anyway.
Not enough buttons for Potemkin.
Nothing beats pc keyboard
IMO nothing beats a good lever that actually suits your preferences. Too many people try those crappy Sanwa JLFs with erectile dysfunction and assume they don't like any sticks.
I know they’re probably more expensive but I wish companies did more sticks where it has leverless and stick on the same pad. Would like more variety in the selections rn
No mixbox layout or slanted wrist rest unfortunately, still cool though
can't wait for your thoughts on playing smash on a controller like this!
I bet within 5 years we will have the "perfect" layout. The squished layout is not it, plus can add L3/R3 and maybe couple more in the 'right' spots
Barely tournament legal buttons 18+
Thing is, on the switch and ps4/5, you can switch the button layout though the in-game software.
Perfect? Depends on the person
Highly customizable? Yes
this is actually pretty cool for someone who wants to try different leverless layouts without constantly buying and returning controllers. Take it from someone who has done so 3 times at this point lol
Nononononono, stop it! That's too many... oh no wait you said smash, that's only half what you'd need 😅
Bro that layout gave me tyrophobia 😢
Wow they invented a keyboard
That's one way of ensuring your hitbox works both for the Capcom Pro Tour and the Smash circuit at the same time
They were so preoccupied with whether or not they Could, they didn't stop to think if they Should...
Okay now this is getting goofy y'all
Can I get a link to show my support? Im just teying to find a good budget leverless to play both tekken and sf. Then if I learn that I like leverless then I will be more willing to pay 200$+
Sorry I’d left it out. Ive added the link to the description for you
@@NihongoGamer i appreciate it. Do you have a recommendation for a leverless controller around 100 usd. Im new to fighting games with my first in this decade being tekken 8. I am really searching for a leverless because its most close to a keyboard imo
@@The_Purple_Sun the haute42 is very affordable and pretty good i got mine for under 100.
Now does it work on xbox?....no?....dang.
I have been heavily considering this controller for months. My only issue is that I dont use box for platform fighters, but that might change since it might be possible to use a wii nunchuck with this board, at least in the patreon stuff they said you could but it looks like they removed that maybe?
I still want it and will probably buy one while intoxicated one night. I like to have buttons on buttons so the full layout would just be my default. For Tekken I would use as many as possible. For SF I would probably stay with mostly the default layout. I really want to try smash (melee) with this thing and a nunchuck and possibly rivals 2.
I think making the switch is worth it. Being able to jump and immediately hit a c-button for an aerial with a different finger is pretty sweet. Also the modifier button to walk means you don't have to try as hard to push the stick the right amount, and you can drop from a run to a walk immediately and precisely. I've got an Open-Frame1 I've played a lot of Rivals of Aether and Smash Ultimate with.
Looks very interesting. I would love to be able to change the layout of buttons for different FG's. Two questions I have are how does it work on PC, do I need to run it through a wingman or can it just plug straight in. Can we download fullsize layouts so we can print them out and see how they fit our hands, mine look way smaller than yours and I'm worried about my thumb not reaching.
Works on pc using x-input! Not sure about the layouts but I assume they’re downloadable
ive been wondering when someone would do something like this, i build mechanical keyboards and they could just make a pcb with a bunch of options on where to place switches for hotswap
Too many buttons. I don't want it.
This is getting ridiculous
The leverless trend has officially jumped the shark. And become a complete ripoff at the same time. The cheaper bill of materials is supposed to be one of the benefits!
260$ for a lever less controller is such a scam, at this point just make yourself one
I made one myself almost 200$
- Fusion board 130$
- Sanwa buttons 50$
- Wires 15$
- Case free if you choose a shoebox, but I 3D printed mine because I know how to design so 15$
Total 195$
Now if someones sells them there is not a lot of margin if you buy a ps5 compatible fightstick.
@@tesoufgc afaik boards with mechanical switches and 3D printed buttons will be cheaper, sanwa are pricey
Couldn't agree more, I bought the kitsune like a dumbass and found out I could have made one with all the custom design I wanted for less
Try the Haute42 T16 it pretty much does the layout you wanted to do.
I have the G16 (the smaller model) they really are great value.
$259.99?
Na I'm good fam. cool concept I guess but lets be real you're going to set this to one configuration and leave it there forever, so just buy that configuration for less than a third of the price.
Very likely
This is why I don't enjoy fighting games as much these days.
next video:"-dude, i buyed keyboard!"
At this point, just use a keyboard
will work with XBOX series X ??
I want one of these
Are you sure that's not a control panel for a nuclear power plant?
Can I plug the holes?
yea
NihonSoccerMomGamer
⚽️
woohoo im 1st
🎉
another amazing review
I've been looking for something like the Split FCG layout. It looks almost perfect for me. I hope they will refine it and sell it as a cheaper standalone option too.
I'm at work, so I can't watch yet, but can you assign the extra buttons to move the camera in 3rd person games, if you wanted? Or is it restricted to Smash Bros for the extra inputs? I'm looking at something like that and wondering how I can use it to replace my gamepad while playing Dark Souls, for instance.
The creators are really open and they answer questions on live streams so they might be open to adding this as a feature if you ask them :)
@@NihongoGamer Oooh, nice! Thanks for the heads up, can't wait to get home so I can actually hear the vid lol
The c-stick buttons are just acting as a right analog stick, so they work for controlling the camera in a game, though they're digital inputs so it's like pushing the stick all the way in each direction (would probably move the camera pretty fast). I played a bit of Super Mario Sunshine with a controller similar to this (Open-Frame1, running the same HayBox firmware). You'd probably wanna do quick taps to adjust the camera instead of holding the buttons most of the time, but you'd run into issues like overshooting where you meant to stop and it might feel a bit clunky. If the game you're playing allows you to adjust the camera stick sensitivity then this could possibly be viable. There are modifier buttons for how much the left stick is pushed, but as far as I know they haven't made anything similar for the right stick buttons, since in Smash it doesn't matter.
@@SoundToxin Thanks for that consideration! Sounds like it might not be the best option for what I wanted to try.
being able to program your own custom layout is imo this thing's biggest draw if they actually manage to implement it in the final release. I personally use the GAMO2 K28 keyboard style controller because I'm a weirdo who likes using the arrow keys for directional inputs and there are so few options for leverless controllers that actually lets you configure it in a way that I can use my right hand for WASD style directional inputs while having enough buttons while having enough buttons for my left hand for action inputs.
Is the body 3D printed? Or some solid plastic material?
You've got to have spaghetti fingers to play that controller.
I am the bone of my spaghetti
@@NihongoGamer I bet!