I love your Game of Thrones videos, they’re so insightful and you really go into a lot of detail about the mythology and the psychological nature of each character I really hope you do a lot more videos. You’ve definitely become my number one when it comes to Game of Thrones videos on RUclips. Please keep up the fantastic work.
The hell??? Jon never saw cat at as a mother and looking for a mother figure in every woman he meets his little sister val Melisandre?what have you be reading
My hatred for Catelyn Stark has not abated at all, please do a video about her to help me understand why her anger was placed on John and not Ned. Had Ned's brother married her she'd have a whole wolf pack of bastards around winterfell. She better thank the 7 smh
Same here. Some people in the asoiaf fandom assume Catelyn would've changed if she knew jon's true parentage but I think she would've stayed the exact same way. It's her own childeren that she bore against one she didn't.
She literally says she would have looked away from a dozen bastards for Ned, it's the fact that Ned brought Jon in the castle to raise as his son that bugs her because Lords only provide for their bastards and the mother and the child stays with his mother's family... She thinks that whoever is Jon's mother Ned must love her more than Catelyn herself cause no matter how much she demands to send Jon away he doesn't.... And as he grew he started looking more like Starks too and it's very common for bastard children to kill the legitimate children to claim their father's property and title (Ramsay) and she fears he will do the same now that Ned even treats him like a legitimate child. Her house words are "Family, Duty, Honour", family comes first, that's how she is brought up so she'll always prioritize her children, no doubt about it.
I hate both Catelyn TULLY and her clone Sansa. She NEVER became a Stark in her heart, because if she did, she would have obeyed her husband's orders that he gave her when he became King Robert's Hand/Chancellor. I hate Sansa as well, her idiotic clone as well, but that's a whole other issue.
I will address Catelyn eventually. I mentioned briefly in the video at around 3:08 that she placed it on Jon because of the conflict it produced: How do I behave in the same loving way towards Eddard if he cheated on me? As it's impossible to keep love and grudge without one diminishing the strength of the other, it produces a conflict. And the resolution for her was to place the grudge on Jon and thus preserve the love for Eddard, in short.
RUclipsr LuciferMeansLightbringer has been doing extensive videos on both Jon Snow and Bran Stark’s ‘Corn King’ symbolism and mythology for years, and he’s recently started touching on the Norse mythological parallels in ASOIAF now too. Strongly, strongly recommend his channel.
this is so good! jon is so interesting. Your video made me understand and realise so many things about jon that I hadnt seen before! can you make a video on daenerys and jaime please?
Jon is Rhaegars’ son but Ned hadn’t thought about Rhaegar in years? That doesn’t make sense among other things. R+L = J is still a theory. There is just as much evidence for N+A = J
Honestly I would prefer the N+A theory since that would mean that the stark bloodline wouldn't be left to an emotionless crippled boy. So unless the books somehow make bran a great hero, may the gods of game of thrones make jon an actual stark
George keeps the timeline of Jon’s birth purposefully a bit vague. Going down the rabbit hole, it’s possible that N+A = J happened before Catelyn and Ned consummation given the timeline of events at tourney of Harrenhal. Also GRRM hates following cliched tropes of fantasy fiction such as the hidden prince ie Aragorn. I could see how GRRM planted the obvious seeds for R+L=J only to later reveal the originally too on the nose N+A=J curveball. Why would he go to great lengths to keep showing how the “bastard” sons both discarded and hidden and “true born” always manifest the most obvious physical characteristics of the fathers. He throws this in the readers faces over and over ie Jaimie and Cersei’s sons, Robert Baratheon’s sons Gendry and Edric Storm, Ramsay and Roose Bolton. Biggest wrench of course is that Ned never speaks of Ashara or envisions her in his fever dreams. Perhaps Jon isn’t even Ned or Lyanna’s son but Brandon Stark’s. Don’t think R+L=J is as locked in airtight as the tv show or the opinions of the overwhelming majority would have us believe. It’s too cliche and much too conveniently thematic to fit GRRM’s prior track record.
I haven’t told anyone but its pretty remarkable how I identify with Johns for so many reasons, someones has once mentioned it to me bc of similar character and past experiences , and they don’t even know half of what makes me feel this way but I didn’t really respond. I think its pretty narcissistic of me to say I identify with one of the main hero of one of the post popular serie ever, but I still amazed how many similarities there is in my own way and its a good psychological work on myself n comprehension of myself while enjoying a good fantasy
N + a=j all the way dog. Although mythologically speaking it’s not as cool, the book evidence in book one is too damning for Lyanna to be the mother. That or George just changed his mind as he wrote the series and didn’t realize Neds chapters don’t make sense anymore!!
Final Season ended the way it was supposed to end though it had holes in dialogue choices , relatively stupid demise of it's overly hyped antagonist but Jon Snow's journey...well I have no compla really...it was gud if you ask me
'Ideational' is when something is related to ideas and concepts. 'Suicidal ideation' is when you think about killing yourself. 'Self-mortification' is when you punish yourself. So 'ideational self-mortification' is when you punish yourself in your mind. Jaime's nightmares of those he admired admonishing, berating and being disgusted with him for his sins and failures is a good example of that. He is punishing himself in his mind by imagining that those whose opinions he holds most dearly would spit on him for the things he has done and failed to do.
And Jon can be compared with Karna the Demigod son of the Sun God, Suryadev from the Hindu Epic, Mahabharata. Like Jon, Karn had to ascend from boy to manhood by rejecting the offer of God, which itself is a form of temptation and later proven his allegiance to his sworn brother/ cousin by skinning his natural born armor. Also, Karn received a spear called Vasavi Shakti as a result of his actions.
I don't think that I agree with the concept that he had nothing and rose from nothing. He was raised in security, with the best education that money could pay at the time, with a powerful family at his back. He had it better than most in the world he lives. I actually find his character bland and boring in general. Thank you for sharing, I enjoy your work very much.
Well it was in the nights watch where it holds true. When considering him for lord commander, no one was like "well we should give command to him because he's Ned Stark's son." Well, maybe except for that Mallister guy. But it's usually held against him. He's a filthy bastard, a warging, bastard, skinchanger.
@@starwarfan8342 In reality he was given the position to avoid other people getting it, not because most people felt he deserve it or wanted him as their Lord commander.
@@starwarfan8342 Well, some did, for sure, others did not but needed an out for options they could not stand to become their LC. Either way, he did not win the position by real merit, in any other situation Jon at his age (and as he is now) would not have been chosen.
This is absolutely true. But in the case of asoif he is one of the most disadvantaged although Danny takes that cake. Jon might have received education, and he might not have starved. But i don't for a second think that he had any sort of protection, if he stepped out of line there would have been consequences, his upbringing was just absolutely shit. Education matters a little less in asoif universe than irl. He was never taught how to act, how to survive, he was never given security because he was abused by Cat and neglected by Ned mostly. The whole reason he wants to go to the nights watch is because he finds his life meaningless and he technically wants for him to need, for the bastard to end, that's some pretty fucking bad mental damage done. Whatever advantages he had was purely basic, he had a room to live in, he received education and meals, he was still ridiculed by everyone, a loud minority of his own family openly hated him, noone gave him a second glance, and he wasn't taught much more than any other unimportant wealthy children.
Right, he didn't come from nothing. That can be seen clearly by comparing him to most of the others in the Night's Watch. I think he knows the difference between himself and the common folk. It's a small thing in the video, but it does stand out.
Great video. But I don't agree that Jon came from nothing. He was raised alongside the other Stark children in the castle, he was trained in weapons and horseback riding from Ser Roderick Cassel. He lived in a fine bedroom, had good meals, and wore fine clothing. Most bastards don't live so well. Up until book five, I believed Eddard Stark's lies about Wylla. But in Dance Of Dragons, Tyrion Lannister discovers in Essos a boy he later learns is Aegon Targaryen. I believe that Jon is Ned's ONLY trueborn child, so if Catelyn knew that Jon's mother was Lady Ashara Dayne, it would make perfect sense for Cat to banish Jon to the Wall so that her bastard children would have all the rights of Winterfell. "The victory must be won for her children's sake."
Yes, we can say he did live well as a bastard in these terms, but training and food alone don't explain his achievements. And that food and training alone don't suffice is demonstrated well enough in Ramsay Snow. We also know from the books that despite receiving the same training as Robb, Jon stood out in skill and wit both (and it's demonstrated on various occasions; he's the most mature of the Stark children, for example). When I said he rose from nothing, I was referring to the fact that he's not like the knights who got sent to the Wall and whose name alone still inspired awe and respect there, for which they could rise easily. Jon was nothing there, and yet he became a Lord Commander. It was the combination of his individual traits, skill, and knowledge that led to his achievements, not his name. And having no name often means being nothing in the world of Game of Thrones, that's mainly why I articulated it in that manner. I know very well that R + L = J isn't a fact, and that's not what I said in the video. I said it's hard to dismiss it as a mere theory at this point, because there are so many hints throughout the book series that it would be rather inexplicable if it weren't so. There are too many things which wouldn't make sense at all if the Stark children apart from Jon were illegitimate (for example, Arya looks like a Stark, Catelyn's principles and love for Eddard wouldn't make sense, etc.). Jon is the one who's on purpose depicted as the one who stands out, both figuratively and literally.
The true test of a ASOIAF RUclipsr, do they remember Robbs will…
😂😂
I love your Game of Thrones videos, they’re so insightful and you really go into a lot of detail about the mythology and the psychological nature of each character I really hope you do a lot more videos. You’ve definitely become my number one when it comes to Game of Thrones videos on RUclips. Please keep up the fantastic work.
This is amazing! Pleaseeeee do an analysis of Jaime Lannister ✨
I want one on jaime so badly, he is so interesting
JAIME LANNISTER, PLEASEEEEEEE!!
I would pay for the day to see Catyln see Jon Snow sitting on the iron throne as the heir to the tygyareans
This channel is one of the best things that happened to me in RUclips in the last few months :D
Keep up the good work!
The hell??? Jon never saw cat at as a mother and looking for a mother figure in every woman he meets his little sister val Melisandre?what have you be reading
I thought that his entire arc was learning from his mistakes and getting his ideals challenged.
My hatred for Catelyn Stark has not abated at all, please do a video about her to help me understand why her anger was placed on John and not Ned. Had Ned's brother married her she'd have a whole wolf pack of bastards around winterfell. She better thank the 7 smh
Same here. Some people in the asoiaf fandom assume Catelyn would've changed if she knew jon's true parentage but I think she would've stayed the exact same way. It's her own childeren that she bore against one she didn't.
She literally says she would have looked away from a dozen bastards for Ned, it's the fact that Ned brought Jon in the castle to raise as his son that bugs her because Lords only provide for their bastards and the mother and the child stays with his mother's family... She thinks that whoever is Jon's mother Ned must love her more than Catelyn herself cause no matter how much she demands to send Jon away he doesn't.... And as he grew he started looking more like Starks too and it's very common for bastard children to kill the legitimate children to claim their father's property and title (Ramsay) and she fears he will do the same now that Ned even treats him like a legitimate child. Her house words are "Family, Duty, Honour", family comes first, that's how she is brought up so she'll always prioritize her children, no doubt about it.
I hate both Catelyn TULLY and her clone Sansa. She NEVER became a Stark in her heart, because if she did, she would have obeyed her husband's orders that he gave her when he became King Robert's Hand/Chancellor. I hate Sansa as well, her idiotic clone as well, but that's a whole other issue.
I will address Catelyn eventually. I mentioned briefly in the video at around 3:08 that she placed it on Jon because of the conflict it produced: How do I behave in the same loving way towards Eddard if he cheated on me? As it's impossible to keep love and grudge without one diminishing the strength of the other, it produces a conflict. And the resolution for her was to place the grudge on Jon and thus preserve the love for Eddard, in short.
Great video!!!
RUclipsr LuciferMeansLightbringer has been doing extensive videos on both Jon Snow and Bran Stark’s ‘Corn King’ symbolism and mythology for years, and he’s recently started touching on the Norse mythological parallels in ASOIAF now too. Strongly, strongly recommend his channel.
Aww I LOVE this one! I’m posting it everywhere😭
Stannis Baratheon would be an interesting video subject!
This is a really great analysis. Thank you for your efforts!
I think we can also think about Jon as the Fisher King - the wounded king in a dying kingdom.
Pleeeease do book!Jaime!! 😍 He is my fav character!
They should of had jon snow fight and defeat the night king was waiting on that the whole show 🤦🏽♂️ blown opportunity
this is so good! jon is so interesting. Your video made me understand and realise so many things about jon that I hadnt seen before! can you make a video on daenerys and jaime please?
I dare someone to dislike this video, it’s perfect
Jon is Rhaegars’ son but Ned hadn’t thought about Rhaegar in years? That doesn’t make sense among other things. R+L = J is still a theory. There is just as much evidence for N+A = J
What’s N+A=J?
@@siennastrickland2722 Ned + Ashara = Jon
Honestly I would prefer the N+A theory since that would mean that the stark bloodline wouldn't be left to an emotionless crippled boy. So unless the books somehow make bran a great hero, may the gods of game of thrones make jon an actual stark
@@fatvikingr5743 I think Martin might still have plans for Rickon
George keeps the timeline of Jon’s birth purposefully a bit vague. Going down the rabbit hole, it’s possible that N+A = J happened before Catelyn and Ned consummation given the timeline of events at tourney of Harrenhal. Also GRRM hates following cliched tropes of fantasy fiction such as the hidden prince ie Aragorn. I could see how GRRM planted the obvious seeds for R+L=J only to later reveal the originally too on the nose N+A=J curveball. Why would he go to great lengths to keep showing how the “bastard” sons both discarded and hidden and “true born” always manifest the most obvious physical characteristics of the fathers. He throws this in the readers faces over and over ie Jaimie and Cersei’s sons, Robert Baratheon’s sons Gendry and Edric Storm, Ramsay and Roose Bolton. Biggest wrench of course is that Ned never speaks of Ashara or envisions her in his fever dreams. Perhaps Jon isn’t even Ned or Lyanna’s son but Brandon Stark’s. Don’t think R+L=J is as locked in airtight as the tv show or the opinions of the overwhelming majority would have us believe. It’s too cliche and much too conveniently thematic to fit GRRM’s prior track record.
I would love an analysis of Bran Stark!!
I haven’t told anyone but its pretty remarkable how I identify with Johns for so many reasons, someones has once mentioned it to me bc of similar character and past experiences , and they don’t even know half of what makes me feel this way but I didn’t really respond. I think its pretty narcissistic of me to say I identify with one of the main hero of one of the post popular serie ever, but I still amazed how many similarities there is in my own way and its a good psychological work on myself n comprehension of myself while enjoying a good fantasy
Ow, do you think that you can set subtitles up in this vídeo? 🥺i'd really aprecciate that!
I haven't figured out yet how to do it, but I will attempt to!
@@FictionPsychology thanks a lot 😊
Two thumbs up as always! Thanks for this!
Is this done by Sansa Stark?
Dude I swore it was her
Anyone else still holding out on something other than r+l=j?
N + a=j all the way dog. Although mythologically speaking it’s not as cool, the book evidence in book one is too damning for Lyanna to be the mother. That or George just changed his mind as he wrote the series and didn’t realize Neds chapters don’t make sense anymore!!
Hell yes man, if jon isn't a stark that practically means that the stark bloodline is dead. (No offense, bran lost all appeal to me in the TV show.)
Girl love these videos . May I have some more ❤️
Just found your channel, I love you Jungian perspective in your analysis. Reminds me of listening to Jordan Peterson.
Commentary sounds like Sansa’s voice 😃😃😃
Sunsa is that you ? 🥺
Omg! She does sound like Sophie a bit.
@@TheeAmethystEmpress6589 Especially with the cute accent she has 🤯
Jon snow is also King of the underworld.
Your voice sounds like Sansa lol
Just a question…U think Ramsey Snow could be the shadow of Jon?
You sound like sansa. I love it
Final Season ended the way it was supposed to end though it had holes in dialogue choices , relatively stupid demise of it's overly hyped antagonist but Jon Snow's journey...well I have no compla really...it was gud if you ask me
Ideational self-mortification... pardon my ignorance, but what's that? :0.
'Ideational' is when something is related to ideas and concepts. 'Suicidal ideation' is when you think about killing yourself.
'Self-mortification' is when you punish yourself. So 'ideational self-mortification' is when you punish yourself in your mind. Jaime's nightmares of those he admired admonishing, berating and being disgusted with him for his sins and failures is a good example of that. He is punishing himself in his mind by imagining that those whose opinions he holds most dearly would spit on him for the things he has done and failed to do.
@@reyniknamyrion3557 Yes, that's exactly it! Apologies I didn't explain it in the video.
@@reyniknamyrion3557 thank you for explaining!
perfect as always
I've been so excited to watch this!!
And Jon can be compared with Karna the Demigod son of the Sun God, Suryadev from the Hindu Epic, Mahabharata. Like Jon, Karn had to ascend from boy to manhood by rejecting the offer of God, which itself is a form of temptation and later proven his allegiance to his sworn brother/ cousin by skinning his natural born armor. Also, Karn received a spear called Vasavi Shakti as a result of his actions.
Can you please do a video on Micheal Scofield (Prison Break).
The pups were so mean, driving poor baby Ghost away :'(
Mann.....I fucking love ghost 🥲
Always wanted to be around a channel before it got super huge.
why do you sound like Sansa Stark 🤨
Wow! I never knew that there were these connections! Cool!
7:11
I don't think that I agree with the concept that he had nothing and rose from nothing. He was raised in security, with the best education that money could pay at the time, with a powerful family at his back. He had it better than most in the world he lives. I actually find his character bland and boring in general. Thank you for sharing, I enjoy your work very much.
Well it was in the nights watch where it holds true. When considering him for lord commander, no one was like "well we should give command to him because he's Ned Stark's son." Well, maybe except for that Mallister guy. But it's usually held against him. He's a filthy bastard, a warging, bastard, skinchanger.
@@starwarfan8342 In reality he was given the position to avoid other people getting it, not because most people felt he deserve it or wanted him as their Lord commander.
@@Munchaussen they might have seen him as the lesser evil, but they still felt that he would have been a competent, good leader in the first place.
@@starwarfan8342 Well, some did, for sure, others did not but needed an out for options they could not stand to become their LC. Either way, he did not win the position by real merit, in any other situation Jon at his age (and as he is now) would not have been chosen.
This is absolutely true. But in the case of asoif he is one of the most disadvantaged although Danny takes that cake. Jon might have received education, and he might not have starved. But i don't for a second think that he had any sort of protection, if he stepped out of line there would have been consequences, his upbringing was just absolutely shit. Education matters a little less in asoif universe than irl. He was never taught how to act, how to survive, he was never given security because he was abused by Cat and neglected by Ned mostly. The whole reason he wants to go to the nights watch is because he finds his life meaningless and he technically wants for him to need, for the bastard to end, that's some pretty fucking bad mental damage done. Whatever advantages he had was purely basic, he had a room to live in, he received education and meals, he was still ridiculed by everyone, a loud minority of his own family openly hated him, noone gave him a second glance, and he wasn't taught much more than any other unimportant wealthy children.
I think you are wrong. He grew up in a castle. He had lots of advantages. Enjoyed the video though.
True but psychologically it doesn’t make a difference to him. Even those who are from a rich family can be unhappy & depressed.
@@BH-98 oh i know. But he was trained to fight and to be a leader.
Right, he didn't come from nothing. That can be seen clearly by comparing him to most of the others in the Night's Watch. I think he knows the difference between himself and the common folk. It's a small thing in the video, but it does stand out.
Great video. But I don't agree that Jon came from nothing. He was raised alongside the other Stark children in the castle, he was trained in weapons and horseback riding from Ser Roderick Cassel. He lived in a fine bedroom, had good meals, and wore fine clothing. Most bastards don't live so well.
Up until book five, I believed Eddard Stark's lies about Wylla. But in Dance Of Dragons, Tyrion Lannister discovers in Essos a boy he later learns is Aegon Targaryen. I believe that Jon is Ned's ONLY trueborn child, so if Catelyn knew that Jon's mother was Lady Ashara Dayne, it would make perfect sense for Cat to banish Jon to the Wall so that her bastard children would have all the rights of Winterfell. "The victory must be won for her children's sake."
Yes, we can say he did live well as a bastard in these terms, but training and food alone don't explain his achievements. And that food and training alone don't suffice is demonstrated well enough in Ramsay Snow.
We also know from the books that despite receiving the same training as Robb, Jon stood out in skill and wit both (and it's demonstrated on various occasions; he's the most mature of the Stark children, for example).
When I said he rose from nothing, I was referring to the fact that he's not like the knights who got sent to the Wall and whose name alone still inspired awe and respect there, for which they could rise easily. Jon was nothing there, and yet he became a Lord Commander. It was the combination of his individual traits, skill, and knowledge that led to his achievements, not his name. And having no name often means being nothing in the world of Game of Thrones, that's mainly why I articulated it in that manner.
I know very well that R + L = J isn't a fact, and that's not what I said in the video. I said it's hard to dismiss it as a mere theory at this point, because there are so many hints throughout the book series that it would be rather inexplicable if it weren't so.
There are too many things which wouldn't make sense at all if the Stark children apart from Jon were illegitimate (for example, Arya looks like a Stark, Catelyn's principles and love for Eddard wouldn't make sense, etc.). Jon is the one who's on purpose depicted as the one who stands out, both figuratively and literally.