The Legalities of Dash Cams - Lehto's Law Ep. 50
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- *************I have updated this topic: • Video
Dash cams are everywhere. Are they legal? What you need to know about how the dash cams can help you and hurt you. What you can and cannot do with them from a legal perspective.
www.lehtoslaw.com 
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Forget the legalities. Always carry a dash-cam in your car. I was driving when someone pulled out and slammed into my side. She lied about what happened and convinced her insurer to reject my claim and my own insurance to find me 50% at fault. And she would've gotten away with if it weren't for my dashcam. After watching the video, both insurers found her 100% at fault and immediately paid my claim.
As a former Leo, I have never had issues with being recorded while doing my job. Of course, beta and vhs were only choices in the 80's. My issue today is the apparent lack of training in law enforcement dealing with constitutional rights and the law. I have been in support of doing away with qualified immunity, make Leo's buy malpractice insurance and get taxpayers off the hook for violating civil rights or poor police procedures.
When cops can legally lie to you, recording them is not antagonistic. It’s the only witness on scene that is not biased.
that's not true at all. recording devices can be made biased by turning them on after the context is gone, or from specific angles that make the other person look bad.
When the police first started using body cameras, I don't think I ever saw a single case where the "body cam malfunctioned" *_didn't_* happen. It certainly seemed suspicious.
Yes but those streamed straight to the police car's trunk, queued, and then passed along to the internet. If the cam malfunctioned, they probably didn't' know it, but you can't un-upload to the cloud when you don't control the system.
My favorite is the trucker leaving his house, entering an intersection on a yellow, getting pulled over and berated by an officer. After the officer goes back to the cruiser, driver remembers his dash cam is on. Driver informs the officer, and when the officer comes back to the truck he is far more humble and polite.
Cant seem to find this video... anyone have a link?
My nephew was doing a live go pro podcast while driving a fully loaded double trailer in heavy traffic. So one minute he was going down the freeway doing 55 mph. The next minute he was not rubber side down and sliding down the side of the road. He had run over a car.
Since he was wearing it, it recorded his view of traffic.
Never seen the vehicle.
It was not a good day for the occupants.
Actually it was their last day.
He still drives for the same company.
He thinks it may have been a brake check or a plan to to drum up some business for a truck accident lawyer. Never know, they are dead.
You can break the law and get away with it. But you can never break the laws of physics.
@@bryanjk I have seen it on dashcam videos that put montages of idiot drivers, crashes, and unusual things. I have on occasion chain-watched those things and it has been on several. Not easy to find through all that. Whether there is a separate one with just it on it I don’t know.
I was talking with my son on my phone one morning while driving to work. As we were talking I was coming up to a red light, second car back. All of the sudden two cars were involved in a crash. As I was telling him what happened and how it happened I took the card out and put my spare into it. I didn’t want the first one to be overwritten. When I got home and was watching and listening I was amazed at the fact that I was all wrong in my reporting the crash to my son. I thought one thing happened and in reality a completely different thing happened. I guess that’s why you get so many different eye witness accounts to the same thing
Yep, I've noticed the same thing too, which is why I love recording devices... 😉👍
which is why it's redicules that you have to have permission to record anything for your own safety.
Funny thing has happened to me on several occasions where I call a company to speak to customer service and I hear the recording the call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes. I have mentioned to a few representatives Yes I'm recording the call also and they tell me I'm not allowed to record the phone call and I don't have their permission. As far as I can tell and I'm no attorney if they are recording the conversation and I've agreed to it all parties have agreed to a recording regardless of who records it. It just makes me laugh when these people argue about whether I'm allowed to record them while they're recording me. What are your thoughts?
I'd encourage a friend who was a bad driver to get a dashcam, as having one might actually make them start thinking about their behaviour & possibly save someone's (even their own) life.
If folks are going to use a camera, I HIGHLY recommend a camera system that Immediately uploads to the "cloud" so that the recording is NOT available to anyone else... to destroy "accidentally"... It happens a LOT..
OtterRose1 which camera do you recommend that uploads immediately?
@@Ninebal And make sure to buy a 2TB dataplan from your cell provider.
i feel like thats the only useful security camera anywhere.
The "Cloud"? That's not secure or private!
I don't want to rely on the "cloud" ..... for a few reasons ...... #1 I do not want to risk incriminating myself. I do not want to be dependent on a third party that could be in possession of information that could be used to incriminate me. A court order could be used to compel the 3rd party to give them access to my data or voice/video recordings. #2 A third party data storage firm could experience an IT failure, that could happen in many scenarios. Thus preventing my data or voice/video recordings from being stored. #3 A third party data storage firm could go out of business very quickly. Causing my data to be deleted or unable to me. ......... I would much rather use a hidden blue tooth type of storage device in the vehicle that I am responsible for. I want a recording system that uses an encryption system with password protection that secures my data. I want the data to be stored in the recording device and/or my hidden back storage device. This way I can invoke the my 5th amendment right to not incriminate myself, and refuse to give them my password. If I was ever in a position where the courts wanted access to information that I FULLY own from equipment that I FULLY own. And if they managed to defeat my data encryption/password protection. I want to be able to file a motion to suppressed that evidence, based on a violation of the 5th amendment. Also in a worst case scenario, this would give me some grounds for an appeal of a conviction.
I live in NY, a one party consent state. I've owned a dash cam for a good ten years now and I've used the footage many times. People can tell the police or their insurance whatever story they like, but they cannot refute video evidence. Anyways to be safe, I always send the video without audio. I feel that's playing it safe.
I would rather take the chance on antagonizing a good cop through a pretty benign action coupled with a polite demeanor versus leaving myself completely defenseless and at the mercy of the shady/crooked cops!
A good cop wouldn't be antagonized.
All cops lie.
Some more, some worse, others just a little.
I believe the State 'trains' them to lie, cheat and that they will 'get away with' nearly all criminal activity
Yep...I was pulled over for failure to come to a complete stop at a stop sign (motorcycle cop was hiding off to the side). The driver in front of me did the exact same thing. I had a radar detector that he saw and commented about. I said that's probably why you didn't stop the driver in front of me. He said he gives leway for complete stops, just like speeding. He said I did it "worse" and that's why I was getting the ticket. I didn't have a dash cam with audio. I do now because if he made a comment about giving leway to complete stops, I would have been able to have my ticket dismissed.
You are exactly right, this guys nonchalant attitude that you don't want to piss off the cops strikes me as some what misguided, many simply cannot be trusted when they are enjoying their daily power trip, so WHY THE HELL would you confront them hog tied and gagged from the start, when they'll likely get around to that anyway. Video is becoming a valuable tool when dealing with law enforcement, the camera
tells it like it is, often contrary to what happened in the cops mind.
@@joncampbell2670 police are allowed to lie to the citizens that hired them but the citizens are not allowed to lie to the police.
I can't imagine a better use of RUclips than this channel. I really appreciate it.
how come government gets to make their footage disappear if it doesn't suit them but we can't? haha
Of course you can 👈 push the motherfuking delete button.
@@Saidoromo2024 He is talking about doing it legally.
I would assume if you could prove the LE deleted or through negligence "lost" the footage the same spoliation of evidence would apply. IANAL
That’s “spoliation.”
Because the government rigged the system in their favor.
Dashcams are great, mine saved me a whole lot of grief six years ago, rear-ended a guy on a motorcycle. Passed during, or shortly after making a left turn, cut in just feet in front of my car, hit his brakes. No chance to react. I didn't pursue damages, as it would have taken some time, lot of work to collect, the guy was a mess, had enough to keep him busy for a few years.
Technology grows faster than the laws, guess it sort of works both ways. Basically, if you are in public, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. When you enter my vehicle. you have no expectation of privacy either. And, it's a dashcam dude, it's in plain sight, mine has a clearly visible flashing light, when recording. It's an electronic eyewitness, shouldn't be doing questionable things, or breaking laws. Anyone complaining about dashcams, are basically saying they wouldn't have commited the crime, if they knew they were being recorded. Which also means, that they have a willingness to break laws, if the have a reasonable expectation of getting away with it. Cameras keep most people on their better behavior.
After getting a ticket for holding my phone while driving (which I wasn't, but the cop needed a good lie to pull me over) I bought a newer dash cam that also records me driving. I realized its not just lying cops who don't like the look of my van but any other driver could just claim they saw me point a gun or something and it would be my word against theirs without the camera footage. I recommend everyone to get a dual view dash cam to protect yourselves.
I’m a retired Prosecutor and Judge and I learn a lot from your excellent videos. I have Dash-cams in all five cars and I never thought about the legalities in relation to them, and from what I know, I agree with all of your points. My wife got into an accident that was the fault of the other driver that was caught “in living color” on her dash-cam. Fortunately, for him, the other fellow was an honest person.
As a recently retired law enforcement officer with an in-car camera system for 15 years (back when we still used VHS tapes) I watched this video with interest. You deserve acknowledgement and thanks for providing a service to the public; good job!
Your videos are very informative. Thanks for the channel.
If I have a "dash cam", Go-Pro or what ever in my vehicle, and park the vehicle some where (in front of my house or a store I am shopping in..etc) where NO ONE should be getting into it but myself, why would it not be considered the same as a "Nanny-cam" or security camera in your home?? You are NOT "eaves-dropping", you are securing your property against vandals or thieves.
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me the difference between your example and what Steve was talking about is the owners give the mechanics the keys to their car with the idea that any repairs will need to be tested on the road before the car is returned to the owner. There's a difference between testing on the road and driving the owner's vehicle in a reckless manner. As far as a "nanny cam" is concerned, I would think they could be challenged under eavesdropping rules because no one in the video is aware they are being recorded unless the parent/guardian has notified the nanny prior to employment. There's a reason businesses with security cameras have to post that cameras are being used, even if the cameras are blatantly obvious.
True but there is not a law at least in the states I've been that a business isn't required to notify you of cameras in use. Nowadays I always assume they are.
A camera in my car during repairs is no different than me being there and waiting for the repair. It's my property, I can record all I want and don't have to tell you a damn thing. Are you only a decent person when you know you're being watched? (not you personally, but in general) I also ignore the signs "employees only" if I want to see what's being done. Dealer's suck.
@@yourhandlehere1 I thought if at least one party was aware of the clandestine video/audio recording, then it's perfectly legal or, is that only for an interrogation.. I forget.
what if you record a drug deal or a murder young lady????
Thanks Mr Lehto. I've been using a dash cam for about 2 years. I will be adding stickers to the windows that effectively say entering vehicle is consent to be recorded. As for recording police - my cam is on a swivel. I can easily swivel it to the drivers window area and return my hands to the 10-2 position. The camera is very small and the officer likely would not even notice. Right or wrong I am going to record as a means of protecting myself from false statements.
whats the model you have please?
Always check that the actual mileage is recorded on the paperwork when you drop a car aff for service. Also note fuel level.
When I ride my motorcycle I use a helmet cam, and it is plugged into the power supply on the motorcycle, if the officer tells me to unplug the camera, I can...but then the camera goes to on board battery and keeps recording........and being on the helmet , the camera is quite obvious.....
In some places helmet cams or anything attached to the exterior of a motorcycle helmet is illegal. The reason being anything attached may become dislodged and at highway speed go flying off as shrapnel causing damage or injury to others on the highway.
I considered getting a 360° dash cam with a motion activation and cloud upload features, because someone kept leaving increasingly hostile notes on my car. I was worried that they might take matters into their own hands when parking enforcement did nothing to me (because I had a valid permit). I had planned to prominently place notifications of audio and video recording both because that would make sure that I was in compliance with my state's audio recording law, and it would act as an additional deterrent. The situation resolved itself when my car broke down, and I decided that repair or replacement weren't worth the cost while the pandemic had me mostly stuck at home anyway.
Tangential information:
I never met the person leaving the notes, but there was a car that was present every time that there was a note, and not when there wasn't. Ironically that car did not have a resident permit, so when they called parking enforcement on me they likely got themselves a ticket. (They seemed to be under the impression that the resident zoned public street along the whole half block was their private parking area. I suspect that their landlord lied to them about that, and they believed him.)
I also considered involving the police, but didn't because I found an article about a person in my town who was convicted of felony harassment for similar behavior, and I didn't want to ruin their life, just get them to stop bothering me.
Sounds like they were just trying to bully you into giving up the space, some people can get pretty possessive over parking spaces and get the idea in their head that they own it if they park in it often.
This is an important issue deserving of a follow up and update after all these years. Also , what specific states as of 2019 do not allow filming of police?
Thanks for all you do sir! I have always had a pessimistic attitude toward the law because they dont teach any of it in school so you only find out in court. I love how you shine a light on them especially the unfair ones 'civil asset forfeiture ' etc. THANKS
My dashcam (a Garmin Dash Cam 55) came in very handy last Summer. This particular dash cam is small enough to tuck in between the rear view mirror and the windshield, yet still generates 1920x1080p 60 fps video and audio. This dash cam ALSO puts the timestamp, latitude and longitude, and the calculated ground speed (via GPS satellites) on the bottom of the video.
The incident last Summer happened as I was driving for Uber. It was late at night (~2:00 am) and I had accepted an Uber Eats pickup at a Denny's. As I approached the turn into the restaurant, I hear screeching tires followed by my car getting hit from behind. As I pulled over, the other car took off. Irked, I took off after the other car. Once I got close enough to to get a description of the car and it's license plate, I continued to follow while calling 911. Once 911 had the car's description and license plate, they told me to stop and wait for an officer. I showed the officer the video through my smartphone. Other officers were visiting the registered address for the car, but the car wasn't there yet. They were able to get the insurance info from the registered owner who WAS there and relayed it to me.
The next morning I put the video of the drive leading up to the impact, the chase, and through when the officer arrives at my location, up on RUclips but made it private so only the people I send the link to could view it. I then sent the officer who took the report a link to it and then called the other person's insurance company. At first the insurance agent who took my call was looking for things I might have done to cause the accident. Once I told him I had dash cam video of the incident, he asked to see it. I gave him the link over the phone and he was silent for a time while he watched, then when it finished he responded, "Yeah we'll pay for all the repairs."
A few points about my dash cam video:
1.) Because your calculated speed is being recorded, this can be evidence used against you if you speed. I find I stick much closer to speed limits now that I know I'm essentially collecting evidence against myself if I speed.
1a.) In order to catch up with the other driver, I DID speed - reaching around 75 mph in a 55 mph zone and yes, it was duly recorded on the video.
2. When creating the clip, I used about 1 1/2 minutes of driving prior to impact to show what I had been doing leading up to the incident. This eliminated any claims that my driving might have contributed to the collision.
3. After sending the link to the responding officer, I never heard from the police again. I attribute this to one of the following:
A.) They may not have even bothered with prosecuting the hit and run as both cars were obviously still drive-able and (apparently) nobody was injured.
B.) The video was sufficient and nothing more was needed from my end.
C.) They didn't need the video as part of their prosecution, or the video had chain of custody problems that rendered it unusable in court (I suppose someone could claim I edited out the part where I caused the accident before uploading the video to RUclips).
Where the video helped immensely was in dealing with the other party's insurance company.
“...I know I'm essentially collecting evidence against myself if I speed.”
So is the airbag controller for a short time before now.
Thank you for this. I have been considering getting one of these and now I know I will. I was in an accident, nothing like yours, just a situation where the other person failed to yield. They lied to police saying they had green arrow, essentially saying I ran a red light. Because no witnesses stopped and the officer didn't see the accident, then it's my word against theirs and was deemed no fault/everyone's fault. So down the road my insurance rates increase.
You should be able to disable the speed information in the menu. I did that on a different dashcam. No need to collect evidence against myself...
Keith Marlowe
Hopefully by now you’re wired for video and I hope you got both front and rear facing lenses. If there’s another accident in your future that isn’t your fault, SAY NOTHING ABOUT YOUR DASH CAMS to anyone until the cops separate you and the other driver to get your statement. The at-fault driver is probably gonna lie if he doesn’t know it’s on video. He will deeply regret lying. I have retrained myself to behave as if I’m on video everywhere I go. Chances are....I am.
Cameras are everywhere.
FYI you don't need a GPS to measure speed. Cop can go to an area, pick 2 points that you got in the video, measure the distance, and calculate speed. It may be off by a couple mph, however it'll be accurate enough for 10mph over.
Thanks for the helpful information. Living in Kansas City, the video prompted me to look up the wiretapping laws in both Kansas and Missouri.
Really a fun and interesting program. I always look forward to tuning in. Like listening to an old friend talking.
So, your car is stolen, and you can remotely view the dashcam. You see it being driven into Solly's Paint and Body Shop, and then you can see other cars inside being chopped up. Can the police act on that to raid Solly's ?
Steve: Another consideration... Dashcam is mounted and constantly recording. You take a phone call while driving, using Bluetooth which broadcasts the other participant in the conversation through the car stereo. This audio is recorded by the Dashcam. In a dual consent state, you are possibly in violation just by taking that conversation over bluetooth. Even if you are in a single consent state, if the other caller is not, which law is applicable? What a quagmire.
I like the audio aspect you brought up. FYI, most modern cameras have a feature that allows you to mute the mic. If I were dropping it off I'd mute it but still catch the chuckle heads
inside and/or outside the car.
Record,, Record ,, Record every encounter with Police, weather your involved or anyone els on the side of the road.
whether. Whether or not you like the weather, you can complain about it.
@@uploadJ
You missed the "your" and the "els".
It's your right, but remember if you get too near, you could be arrested and charged with obstructing an officer. If you start saying stuff, that may also interfere and you could be arrested. Also, if you pull over on the road you may get ticketed for a safety violation. Lastly, if you distract the cop and he is dealing with a dangerous felon, he or an innocent bystander may get killed or injured because of your actions. Just some things to think about.
So, you're rolling down an interstate at 70 MPH and see a car pulled over by Law Enforcement...You STOP and begin recording the interaction?
It's fun to see how your video and audio quality has changed and improved over the years. Great channel and advice!
Can you do an update video on dash cam legalities as I am sure a few laws have changed regarding this since you made it. Thanks!!
I have recorded all interactions with police officers for over a decade now (as long as I've lived in a single-party consent state). I used to live in a two-party state and had police officers lie to me multiple times and have witnessed multiple police officers lie under oath about conversations and events they had seen. I have never had those issues in a single party state, and especially not since I began to record all police interactions / phone calls.
Great info. Clearly expressed, by a knowledgeable
professional .
Thanks for the entertaining education, Steve. I love the show.
It gets tricky in one regard. When someone starts your vehicle, and you have an obvious dash cam, THEY begin the recording process. Courts have a lot of flexibility when it comes to situations like this, where one person is not intentionally recording someone else. Additionally, placing a sticker in your vehicle that it is under surveillance on the windshield is adequate to get around this concern, as notification, not consent, is all that is required.
When presenting evidence to a court in a two party consent state, be sure to present only the video track portion of what your dash cam has recorded.
Excellent Presentation presented in plain and simple language. Very good.
Glad you open the video by saying what jurisdiction your legal tips apply to. That in itself earned you a "like"
Live streams are an option to preserve audio and video if a wreck subsequently destroys all recording equipment and onboard recording.
What if you have a sign on the dash that says “Audio and video recording may occur in the of this vehicle at any time” or something like that?
Yes.
“In the of this vehicle...” ?
Re. locating the dashcam so it doesn't obscure your vision through the windshield: All mine, for several years now, have been built into the rear view mirror. When set to show the rear cam viewpoint it actually gives me a better view of the road behind than the mirror alone can give.
As explained to me by a retired CA Highway Patrol Officer, and two municipal police officers, CA is in between single and dual consent for audio recording. It was described to me as a sort of 'informed single consent'. I can record any conversation I want to *as long as I inform other involved parties that I am doing so*.
Thank you, for this video!
I am a rideshare driver in Georgia for both Uber and Lyft. I have two dash cameras - one facing forward to record traffic and one facing into the interior of the car to record activity inside the vehicle. I also have a tablet with a slideshow that alerts riders to the presence of security cameras. And, I have informed Uber - but, not Lyft (because, they didn't ask) - that I have two dash cameras and their brand and models. When Uber riders request a ride, they are informed that my car is equipped with security cameras for the safety of both drivers and riders. What I would like to know is, what are the legal ramifications of the use of any recordings that these cameras capture? And, how am I allowed or prohibited from using those recordings? Thanks!
Steve - Would be interested to hear your dash cam comments for Uber & Lyft drivers.
Popeil's had a couple of special models for Oregon. The Pocket Fisherman for use on the Willamette River had a built-in Heavy Metal detector, the one for use on the Columbia River came with a built-in Geiger Counter. (Ref: Wah Chang, Hanford)
I was at a tire shop just last week having some work done and I always keep a close eye on my car. I noticed that the person that pulled my car in set in my car for 3 or 4 min. rummaging through every nook and cranny. So the next day I returned and sat in the Meijer parking lot that buts up to the tire store parting lot. Time after time he would go through every car he got in. So I simply walked in and asked for the manager. I ask him to take a look at my car outside just to get him out of the showroom. Outside I told him what was going on and told him I could prove it. He asked how, so I invited him to walk over and set in my car and see for himself. As we set waiting for the punk I showed him my dash cam recording. The same thing happened over and over right in front of him. I told him, will you do the right ting or shall I call the police. My dash cam was running all this time showing this ass going in and out of several cars looking through everything his costumers had. I guess it's back to the DQ's drive up window for him. I love dash cams!
What if you put a little sticker on each window that says "This vehicle is recorded and monitored at all times"?
What people need to know first is that even if they delete your photos there's a 95+% chance that all photos, videos, documents can be retrieved. It frustrates me every time I hear about cops deleting videos and pics. Don't let them have their little victory!! Take the steps to recover the footage even if it costs you a couple hundred dollars.
Steve Lehto, great podcast and channel. I discovered your channel probably just a month ago, and I've been watching your uploads on a regular basis now. I had to drop this comment today, because at the beginning of this video you mention the Chrysler Turbine car (I didn't know there was one) in a Los Angeles museum. I'll have to make a note of checking that out. But I had remembered all this time about an article in Motor Trend magazine in the November 1979 issue that a Corvette owner had taken his Corvette and customized it with a jet engine. I'd always thought about that article, but it wasn't until I watched this video tonight that prompted me to hunt the article down. Until tonight I couldn't recall the magazine title or issue date, but found it with the help of Google image search. In any case, if you're interested in that sort of thing, I'd recommend looking it up. I don't know what ever became of that customized Corvette, but maybe now that I have a lead to follow, I may learn of its' outcome. Keep up the good work, Steve!
The regulation concerning windshield obstructions is quite clear. FMCSA regulation, §393.60(e) states, in part: Antennas, transponders, and similar devices must not be mounted more than 6 inches below the upper edge of the windshield. These devices must be located outside the area swept by the windshield wipers, and outside the driver's sight lines to the road and highway signs and signals.
This is for commercial drivers.
Been listening to you for maybe half a year; you have come a long way. Glad to know a bit about this information of some states being duel party. And worse ones where the cop is by state law allowed to tell you to not record, I would need legal help of that ever happened to me (that would make me suspicious of the cop and hence see him as a threat.)
I am curious, would stickers denoting the recording device be enough in dual party states?
I've been to the Petersen museum. It was in 2014, and I remember the Chrysler!
Informative video. Question . Does this apply to recording both video and audio in public? Like if I have. A gopro mounted on my helmet and I ride a motorcycle around town talking to people in public,do I have to get permission or advise them that I'm recording both video and audio?
Thank you!
In reference to the dashcam and notifying the occupants that you take with you, or service shops, can you post a sign on the dash, stating something to the effect that the cam could be recording while the power is on? I have a foreign vehicle and power to the cam is only on while the key is in the accessory position or further.
Know of many corrupt departments/officer's, be a very good idea to record every interaction with them, I had property stolen from my house, recovered by police, my property went from police evidence to a pawn shop, audit of them was really bad, hundreds of firearms, drugs and a ton of other property vanished from the evidence room over a 12 month time frame.
Lol...I just learned the word "spoliation" on "Better Call Saul" this morning. Nice to hear it again so soon!
Thanks for explaining about the voice recording. Good information and advice.
On the recording, that was something we told customers when I worked at Radio Shack back in the 90s while in college. You have parents who want to control who their kid, especially daughters, are talking to. That would be illegal in Minnesota to put a device to record when neither party knows they are being recorded.
Jay Leno owns a Turbine car as well. He has a great video on his channel of it and driving it.
Put a small sticker on each door window that says, "This car equipped with a audio/video recording device. Entering this car constitutes consent to be recorded." Now they have given consent when they get in the car.
I would think if they can read/speak the language the "small sticker" is posted in you may be covered. If not then you may be 100% wrong.
@@SaintsPurgatory only people who speak English enter my car. It's the only language I speak.
I think it was Dunkin Donuts that had the stickers on their doors that said video was being done on premises. Nobody thought much of it. I think most thought it was for robberies, like a bank camera. But, it actually was recording sound too and it was so sensitive that it could pick up patron's conversations!!! Not sure if they changed their policy.
Ah, the end-user license agreement. Still, I don't see how this would be necessary since the police don't have the authority to tell the bank to turn off their surveillance system upon entry. I don't get how one company has the right to record and another does not.
Good informative video. Dash cams have capability of recording video, voice, and often vehicle speed. I’ve used one on my motorhome for 7 years. I recently recorded a crash in front of me which showed the entire sequence. I gave it to the cops and the ones involved. One thing I was told by an attorney years ago was to not record audio and especially vehicle speed. He told me that even if I was not in the wrong, but was speeding 1 mph over, I could possibly be responsible for some fault because I was breaking the law according to my dash cam. He said never record speed.
Great video. Is there a difference between a $30 basic camera vs. $500 camera? I heard to be admissible in court it needed a GPS and time stamp...it that true?
You have a great channel there Mr. Lehto!! BB in Texas
+Bob Burnitt thanks!
@@stevelehto - Please do a follow up since the US supreme court case over the young man (motorcyclist) in Maryland who got their wiretap laws overturned and destroyed all the recording laws for LEO's all over the USA. The courts ruled police have no expectation of privacy when on the job in public. Recording them is completely legal. Video and Audio.
The twisted thing was that they charged that young man with a felony because he embarrassed a bad cop and posted it on youtube. A plain clothes thug in unmarked impala with a 45 and did not immediately identify himself as a police officer.
I had hoped you would have mentioned dual recordings ( inside & out) for rideshare drivers.
Lots of things have changed from 2015 till now . The 1st Amend Auditors comes to mind.
Turner vs Driver Case is good highlight of that. and much more.
You can also turn the audio off on the camera and record just video. Most places with wiretap laws do not AFAIK restrict video recording (the laws are sometimes unchanged from 50+ years ago)
Gotta say, love the advice presented on your channel. I'm a truck driver. I was given the advice to place a sticker that says, "Audio and video surveillance in use." Would this cover any circumstance that may arise?
Does the eavesdropping rule protect someone whose voice is recorded if they are stealing a car or committing a crime while in your car?
Ask the bait car cops and prosecutors. It seems to work for them.
@@stevek8829 They may have a warrant for that.
It might be inadmissible, but if they sue you for invasion of privacy (or if anyone does) they have to use the video as evidence and in that process they have to make it public. Any evidence you bring to court becomes available to the general public unless the judge allows it to be sealed. Suing you over something they want kept private is a good way to make it not-private. Probably it would be legal so long as voices are bleeped out (use subtitles) and faces blurred. =You can read/see what was being said and done but anything that can identify the perps is masked.
In the early days (before the Boston Police case that ruled that recording police was legal) NH police liked to confiscate smart phones ("evidence" they said) and delete stuff they didnt like before returning them. With Apple PIN locking they could not open the phones. When an owner went to retrieve his phone they gave him a brand new one. Said they had "lost" his original phone. This was all on YT videos.. 10-15 years ago.
@@julianfell666 trick is double jeapordy. Don't sue until after you are found innocent.
What you need is a dash with two cards, one to give police straight away and one to keep.
Video evidence could be tampered with, so both parties have original copies.
This was a problem a company i worked for making speed cameras, they wanted to go digital but at the time the encryption required had not been specified, only wet film negatives admissible in court.
Thanks for awesome video on dashcams. I live in NY and love the fact it's a one sided consent especially as I use a telephone recorder and thinking about a 4 camera dashcam setup for my SUV. I use the phone recorder basically for directions or as a way to go back and say what did they need me to do? I've never used it for legal purposes but thank you for the dashcam information it's super appreciated! Thanks Eddie J. Long Island N.Y
Everyone's seen investigative reports where they hide cameras on cars to catch bad mechanics when the reporters aren't present. Does that technically mean that the correct response to being confronted with the evidence should be to question it's legality? Although it is satisfying seeing the shame as they run sometimes.
But, I’ve seen way too many “tragedies” without these recordings! Victims who are speaking up.
I well agree with you that is why I get ones that I can fit right behind the rearview mirror so it won't be in my line of sight.
I remember seeing a video of service technicians in a Ford a few years back, but it was a Focus ST, in the UK.
I’m pretty sure that there and most other countries in Europe, private individuals don’t have to disclose they’ve got a dashcam installed.
However, businesses must disclose it - provided it’s a vehicle actually used for work, and that it’s not privately owned - if any auto or video from inside the vehicle cabin is being recorded. Very often taxis would have an inward-facing CCTV in case the driver gets assaulted. (A sticker saying that you’re being recorded is enough, though, as long as it’s blatantly visible once you’re seated.)
My friend was arrested for obstruction of justice when he recorded an officer of the law strong arming into my residence w/out a warrant. Then arrested me for a warrant that was never issued. As I was cuffed and being forcefully escorted to the police car he said and I’m arresting your friend for obstruction of justice. Cuffed him and put in squad car w/ me. Sitting on a bench in booking side by side, my friend and I observed arresting officer and jailer talking each other through how to delete photos from my friends phone they had gotten out of property. People lock your phones. Every video and every picture was deleted by them in front of us and left one photo of me cuffed being taken to the police car. I was given a court date handwritten on a piece of paper. That’s all. Never had me sign anything. I can’t even prove I was there. I went to the courthouse on the date provided. The courthouse did not even have court on the days the date provided. I went to the city and asked why a warrant was issued for my arrest. I was informed there was not a warrant. Not now I said. They served it. I was informed that they had never issued a warrant. Only Records she said was a traffic violation three years prior. And said ticket was paid three years prior. My friend was on misdemeanor probation and and they violated him and had to do ten days in jail. Just trying to protect an obvious violation of my rights rights resulted in him being incarcerated ten days, fired from his job. Obstruction of justice is an ambiguous law that may be I interpreted in many ways. Would’ve given the world for a dash cam or recording device. But they would’ve deleted it. Law enforcement officials can legally detain you for three days w/out a phone call for any reason. Legally and nothing you can do about it. I would not let anyone of law enforcement detaining or questioning me that there was a camera or going to be a recording. Hopefully it is being recorded remotely at another location.
Good apps these days actually send all photos and videos and audio recordings recorded through the app to an off-site server such that it cannot be deleted from the phone. Even if an officer takes a sledgehammer and destroys the phone completely the files would still be accessible.
The best Dash cams are the same way. Even if an officer picks up the dash cam and throws it into a field oh, it's still recording the officer doing that and sending that to the off-site server for as long as it has an internet connection.
Cop is recording me to protect himself and to sink me in court. I will subscribe to recording him to protect myself and sink him in court if needed.
Simple, fair.
I recommend installing a 360 degree camera on your vehicle for this reason. Make a record that you were polite and compliant during the contact. If the COPs want to be hostile or make stuff up, which often happens, you have a record of what you did and how you conducted your self. Simply, it is insurance.
I wear a body cam while driving. You can buy them for less than 50 dollars.
Hey ! you sunk my battleship !!
Excellent idea, John! I had no clue they were that inexpensive. i was thinking 200-300 dollars.
@@johnd4348 Where do you but them? What make/model?
I carry 2 cams in the car: one is part of my rearview mirror (records forward ) , the other is mounted on the rear passenger side headrest and it shoots diagonally across the inside of the vehicle and is aimed at me. It also takes in the driver's window, instruments and most of the windshield. This second camera is not highly visible. I also carry a micro sound recorder, easily activated in a traffic stop situation. Voice recorder on any smart phone also works.
These "two-party consent" laws have been adopted in California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.
Hi Steve, I have a dash cam. Not only will it record video but it records audio too. I had a phone call while driving, from a doctor who in my opinion was using manipulation. The doctor was supposed to give me a medical letter for a certain condition that I have. Anyway he said he wasn't going to provide it unless I did something first. After we hung up remembered about the dash cam. It recorded our conversation. I gave a curiosity call to the doctors office and requested to speak with him. When he got on the phone I informed him that the conversation was recorded inadvertently by the dash cam. Upon learning this news he said the letter will be available for me to pick up the following day. This happened in Michigan. I'm knowledgeable of chain of custody and the need to maintain the recording. It's saved and locked on SD card. T
When the doctor told me to destroy the conversation told him I couldn't do that because it's evidence. That happened in 2019.
In your video you mentioned recording the police during a traffic stop and how it might be viewed as antagonistic. My question is this: What about the "body cams" that many police agencies are now supplying their officers with? Why should I not view that as antagonistic? And does that possibly violate the dual consent law while the police officer is talking to me?
I always travel with a DashCam and a Thermite Bomb (or 2 Road Flares(useful to destroy said
DashCam)) oops did I say that?
It feels antagonistic if you tend to do bad things.
8:04 Re: a couple of states say we can't record cops at a traffic stop, or can't record them without permission. Which states have such rules? It's two and a half years later. Are those rules still in effect?
Right now it is half and half. That is, half the states have explicitly ruled on this. The other half have not.
Steve Lehto - But didn’t SCOTUS already rule that we can record the police or is it only the circuit courts? If it’s the just circuit courts that could still be used in court.
If you have stickers on and in your vehicle that state your audio and video recording doesn’t that count?
I believe there is an exception to the wiretapping law in N.C. for home security cameras. By analogy, a car security camera *might* also be okay -- but I have not researched it.
Steve -- I appreciate you clarifying a number of points in this video.
One question I still have is about the legality of a dashcam recording other people who are in your car (as in the example of the mechanics "test driving" the Mustang). I wonder if there aren't two mitigating factors:
1. If a dashcam is set to automatically begin recording when the key is turned (or some other automatic prompt), do you think that would indemnify the car's owner from "anti-eavesdropping" laws, since recording others would not have been intentional on the part of the owner?
2. The interior of a car is much like the interior of a person's home; it is private property, and not subject to the same kinds of search exposure that a person's property (such as the contents of a shopping bag) might be in a public space such as a sidewalk.
Consider this hypothetical: let's say that a home burglar alarm set-up also recorded audio, and that recording is triggered by motion sensors. Let's say you let a plumber in your house to do a repair while you were elsewhere, and that the plumber helped themselves to valuables, or did some other illegal thing, and said incriminating things while doing this. I would presume that "anti-eavesdropping" laws would not come into play, since (a) the devices in question were inside of one's own property, and (b) there was no presumption of a possibly incriminating conversation taking place. Wouldn't the interior of a car be treated the same way as the interior of a home, in such a context?
Do you think posting a written notice on your dash that said something like "The interior of this car is under constant audio surveillance." would satisfy the consent issue? Or, would that be argued that illiterates and the seeing impaired weren't notified? How about a stereo that makes the announcement every time it's turned on. I think we're going to see an explosion of recording devices everywhere. And, that's fine with me. Maybe it'll make it harder to get away with crime. This was a fascinating lecture. You're a great educator, Steve.
+CouldYou HelpMeOut Thanks for the note. A written notice would work so long as people saw it. But what happens if they say they didn't? One thing that always works is if you tell them the recording is being made and you catch that on the recording.
Some car cams do have a sticker that you can put on the drive side of your car
i have 3 cameras in my suburban one out the front one out the back and a gopro mounted on the front window facing inside the suburban and i have signs on both side or the suburban letting people know that there is video and audio recording in the car i drive for a rideshare company for me its just like walking into a 7-11 that there are cameras there so the same for the car i drive
@@RideShareConfessions how do you manage the massive amount of data that those cameras record?
@@stevelehto that would be easy just have it posted right on the steering wheel stating that your vehicle is under audio and video recording therefore it would be right in front of their face I had a cousin that did that
If someone enters your space or property security cams record it. My question is why would you need permission if someone enters your space inside your vehicle ? If someone commits or admits any wrong doing and it gets recorded while in your space it should be on them.
Thanks for another great video Steve! Would it be legal if the dashcam did not record any audio? Let's use the Mustang at the dealer example. If you had a recording of the vehicle being driven improperly, without audio, is there any other reason that the video could be thrown out of court? I'm going to assume it was not tampered with or withheld in some unlawful way.
I actually own a Popiel Pocket Fisherman and love it! Still use it to this day for bass, catfish, perch and crappie!
Steve, Would you consider and speak to the legal impact of the Amazon Alexa, recording conversations in a home and the data simultaneously sent to the Amazon Cloud (AMZ)? Thanks
You signed the agreement.
That’s not how it works.
and that is why I wont get that Alexa or Google or what ever. they can listen in and next thing your mail box is full of shit.
Guys...what if you bring home a date and her name is Alexa? 3 some??
You taught me ubiquitous, that alone is worth a like.
Related to the mustang video, I recently saw one(not sure if the one your talking about) but it was done on a dashcam that turns on automatically when the car is started. This guy was in NJ, idk their laws. What kind of options does one have in non-singleparty consent states? Would a small sticker starting that video recording in progress suffice? I see this sign in various businesses and wondered if it would help avoid legalities in a case like that???
Steve, question though, there are states where your vehicle is an extension of your home like the state I live in Mississippi. Might a hidden security camera inside your car be considered exactly that a security camera catching illegal activity and not necessarily held to wire tapping or eavesdropping statutes?
A dash cam that sends the recordings being made (at least at low res.) for safekeeping on a server you control, may often be a very handy tool as well.
Hey Steve, I've caught many a fish with my handy Popeil Pocket Fisherman,
People really appreciate your knowledge and you sharing it with us if you're one of few people on RUclips that. I frequently watch it's good to know your rights.
Interesting, I was previously under the understanding that sound in conjunction with video was listed under photography laws whereas audio alone was separate and required concent
Wat if u inform the officer he's being recorded prior to him searching the car
Then while searching the car he finds the camera and turns it away or off
Wouldn't that b tampering
Cop: "This is a nice camera. My wife is going to love it."
@@robertschmidt9296 nooo... they steal shit all the time. Why? They are legal anarchists who are a part of the most powerful street gang. Yeahh... sorry. True
Nobody gets in trouble as long as people SHUT THEIR GODDAMN MOUTHS! Nosy people with big mouths are the worst.
That's your VEHICLE. YOUR PROPERTY. You can watch your own property. ALL DAY.
Ive seen a camera advertised (have no idea what brand or the cost) that records 360 and is extremely difficult to turn off if you've never used one or researched it. Gotta find that thing...
As a tourist I'm filming all the time including people talking around me.
Hey Steve I'm just surfing and happend on this site. I've never had a dash cam , although I do often think of the times I wish I would've had one, or two. I retired from in 2018 from driving trucks, for 40 years. Some how I managed to survive that long winding road to hell without a chargeable accident, and around 3.75 million miles. My career had me working out there during the same time period that close to 3 million men, women, and children were killed in motor vehicle traffic accidents . So yeah, there's a tombstone every 1/4 mile of Americas highways and by ways.
What I want to mention, and the reason I stopped by your site, was your book about the Chrysler Turbine car. When I was 16, I experienced getting to see, and sit in that Chrysler Turbine car in summer of 1964, in a town north of the Lake of the Ozarks, in Eldon, Missouri.. As I remember -the man telling me - he was given this ca,r to test drive it anywhere he wanted to go ,one of fifty built I believe . I'll have to check out your book. Unbelievable that anybody even knows abou this "Spaceship. L8r🚚⚘🇺🇸