I’m so saddened by this recording. The guy has such a mild and gentle personality. Good that he had the courage to record and release this recording. Folks wouldn’t believe how inhumane these elders are without listening to these behind closed doors discussions. Any person studying with JWs that listens to this will realize how harmful this religion is. Basically if you don’t believe everything … you’re going to get booted out!
"We HAVE TO let the friends know that you don't want to be one of jehovags witnesses" NO you don't....in time the 'friends' will figure that out themselves. If someone walks away....let them go. Anything else is just pure evil!
@@anniesavedbygrace It is evil! Yet, Christ will use his experience and testimony mightily to deliver many others from the bondage of deceit! Thank you Jesus!!!
You left a great testimony towards the End. You planted seed. We all need to plant seed. We need to let them know there in the wrong. I pray they think about what you said. 🙏
@@jeffpeff Far WORSE! The gym won't kidnap your family and friends and extort you,... nor will they require two witnesses to your child being raped or molested. Sick.
The worst words anyone could ever hear are…. Depart from me I never knew you!!! Instead of welcome good and faithful servant. These “elders” are on a bad path 💔💔🙏🙏 The last video enraged me, this one saddens me!!!
Option 1. "OhioPIMO is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Option 2. "Depart from me I never knew you." Kind of a no-brainer, but devastating nonetheless... At least now I'm free to help others make their exit. This cult needs go!
I truly appreciate what you had to go through. I’ve been there myself and I don’t wish that on anyone. The fact is their love is conditioned to be organizational policy and not love of neighbor! Please know that the way I see this is you brought them CHRIST and they reject it because they obey the doctrine of men! You don’t need me to say it but be proud because you took a stand for truth and we know that the “truth” is John 14:6 our LORD and savior and there is NO name that we are saved through but his! God bless my brother.
1:25:39 - ABSOLUTELY love your words here. I feel like their silence was a bit of how "the real truth just hits different" ....what you said is so true and Bible based. There is NO organization. -- they don't get just following Jesus is enough, that we are enough because of him, it's a free gift....not our "works" so that no one can boast. You tried making so many great points that were lost on them, but hopefully it planted a seed with at least one of them. This was all so very triggering of conversations that I've attempted with family....really super proud of how you held your composure. Thank you for sharing. I hope that things in your life will get better with your wife. ❤
This is one more reason that I never became a Jehovah's Witness. There's absolutely no way that I would ever let Shemp,Larry and Moe sit on a panel and judge me.
@OhioPIMO you did an awesome job brother....I woke up in 2017....was pimo til 2020 when I left! I feel the same way you do about Jesus! It feels good to have a relationship with the real Jesus! I was a jw for 32 years....I am so glad to be awake! Watchtower is really a dangerous cult who use disfellowshipping or now they call removed as emotional blackmail.....thank you for sharing your experience....I have been fortunate....the elders have left me alone....it's well known amongst the friends how I feel about the organization....not once since I left have the elders made an attempt to check on me or even have a conversation....when I was fading...the only thing they were concerned with is did I have field service time....the service overseer would text me and ask me if I had time....just cracks me up how these elders didn't want to discuss scriptures....they were more interested in defending the theology of the organization.....and the one elder even admitted....I have a feeling there is going to be more changes and new light....I hope what you planted some seeds for them to think about
@@OhioPIMOBe strong, & keep studying the Bible. They can’t unhear what u shared. Their pride & belief system is contaminating critical thinking. Also, that perceived power that Elders have is intoxicating. If they r humble men, they will take the time to truly examine the scriptures shared vs. being dogmatic in a crooked belief system.
When asked to have a Bible study, the Elder asks 'What publication would we use?" Shows just how far from God they are when they choose to follow man's publication.
How Narcissitic is this. You don't see things our way so we're gonna run around (announce your name) to the 'friends' to blacken your name and reputation before you can grass on me.
I left the organization over 4 years ago. My wife very much still in. During my exit, my wife insisted I talk to the elders. I refused. I ended up talking with my father, an elder and it became very clear that he had zero interest in what I thought. His only concern was making me think like him. This confirmed my thoughts about refusing to talk with my elders as does your conversation with your elders. They only want to make you think like them. If they can do that the are only concerned with silencing you. That is the very definition of a cult. If they truly have the truth, they should be encouraging you to listen to opposing beliefs knowing that the truth they allegedly have will hold up to scrutiny. They dont do that so silencing defectors is their only weapon. The sad part it, it works.
Haughtiness is a bad quality or characteristic that is deeper than a mental conclusion. Jesus Christ named it along with murder, thievery, blasphemy, and other wrongdoing and said that “from inside, out of the heart of men,” such things issue forth. (Mr 7:21, 22) Jesus’ earthly mother Mary said of Jehovah: “He has scattered abroad those who are haughty in the intention of their hearts.” (Lu 1:51)
I would love an update on how you’re doing now, the struggles, anything unexpected? You were so kind, I’m sorry you went through this, I hope you can work on building a fulfilling life.
Really difficult, and I admire the humbleness yet sticking to Jesus no matter the consequences. Ohio pimo ( now pomo), be assured that Jesus is loyal to those loyal to Him. He pulls the humble and sincere out and makes them His. There’s a rough road ahead, I know because I lost my wife and children for the same reason, but He will pull you through to seasons of refreshment. Be patient and wait on Him. Perhaps your family will follow in time and come out of the cult, the Holy Spirit works in amazing ways. Remember Job and his outcome. You are no longer part of the shifting sands and don’t feel like you need to be. On a side note… will those 3 guys ever shut up?😅 All the best to you, and may you be rewarded for seeking truth and serving our King.
@Miles_Carditis you are correct in saying that Rutherford is responsible for disfellowshipping. But Russell is the originator of the movement and his errant theology is responsible for leading millions astray. He even stated that the bible cannot be read on its own, apart from his interpretation of it
Right from the beginning prayer the elders ask for "accurate knowledge". Yet they prohibit anyone from looking at information "outside the organization" that would disagree with their doctrine. If it's really "The Truth" you got nothing to worry about! Then they ask this guy if believes the bible is the source of truth(approx 16:30). He answers in the affirmative. Then the elders say "well that eliminates quite a few organizations(religions)". The JW elders just eliminated themselves based on their adulterated bible. I feel this guy's pain and he was WAY more patient than I would have been. These elders are brainwashed robots supporting an organization that has based their religion on false doctrine and false prophecy.
They love to keep saying that he is making this decision, not them. They will not acknowledge that each member of the congregation will shun him and will be held to account if they don't. They don't have a choice if they want to have a relationship with their family and friends that they have known their whole lives. Their love is conditional and to say any different is an outright lie. Stay in with a gun to your head or be shunned. He shouldn't have backed down on the threat to sue them, personally. More and more are using the legal system to prevent their names from being announced from the platform. How many window cleaners and floor buffers can afford to defend their decision in court??
This is a foundation of abuse. Same goes in line in domestic violence when the victim is accused of causing the aggressor to abuse them, and my elders did this to me, they are programmed. It is sad they don't see this and shows how lost and blind they truly are.
1:08:38 "We are the only organisation doing that." Sweeping statement / Generalisation - incorrect. May church, a Baptist church, often goes around proselytising and often we come across JDubs
41:34 the NWT has been at times 'refined' to support those points of view....WOW missed that 1st time around...so Gods Word needed to be refined to support mans understanding. Im Gobsmacked!
I hate it how the elders say they respect him and that they each have free will to choose for themselves what path to take and that they can simply "agree to disagree". That implies a peaceful and amicable parting of the ways, but it's not like that at all. They have the power in their hands to punish you for exercising your free will by ripping your family away from you and destroying your reputation. And they use that power! The person on trial has no such power. What an imbalance. What a gross injustice. How thick must the elders be to think there's no problem if he doesn't want to be a jw anymore and an announcement is made? Their attitude was "you get what you want, so what's the problem?" Duh!!! I had the same thing from the elders at my jc meeting.
The bottom line is , he’s being punished for not agreeing with the elders agreeing with 11 guys in upstate New York. It has nothing to do with the Bible. It’s with him disagreeing with the governing body. That religion is a complete and utter joke.
This cracks me up, if any jehovah witnesses were in their home or felt threatened they would call the police to protect them and last I check police carry guns... 😂
I wish he would take legal action against them, as he told them he had considered doing. Make them take responsibility for literally punishing him for not believing as they do. How do you deny someone their right to religious freedom? Punish them for it.
46:50 "The brothers have humility, they don't have all the answers - they are willing to make adjustments because they come from Jehovah". Oh, so Jehovah didn't tell them correctly the first time? Jehovah doesn't know who he is? Charles Taze Russel stated in the Watchtower New Light cannot Extinguish Old Light. In the Bible, when God spoke, the prophets knew it was Him speaking and it was LOUD and CLEAR what the requirements were.
JW’s are not interested in studying with already baptized witnesses. There’s no pay off to it, so to speak. Back in the day when I was in, I asked an older pioneer witness “friend” to study with me, but she wasn’t interested because she wouldn’t be able to count the time.
41:34 admitting that you changed a book to support your agenda and having it end with "and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll." - rev 22:19 NWT. CRazy like you really cant see the problem with that?
@markshark1613 it's very hard to show a jw things because of the way they think, luckily I helped a now good friend of mine a few months back with a simple question of is your God God or the watchtower? He looked at me funny and I said, no disrespect but if you said you wanted to leave at your next meeting would they tell the congregation you left the watchtower? No they would say you left Jehova. So again I ask you is your God God or the watchtower? Slowly I've been showing him Jesus and he's still a little caught up on the divinity of Jesus but he's starting to kind of understand it after simply reading the Bible on its own.
When uniformity is more important than truth, then they sacrifice the truth. I have experienced this with every dialog I've ever had with JWs. Anyway, follow Christ, love one another, do good, seek truth. If that leads you out of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, then so be it.
I’m Only half way through but if the governing body said the next day Jehovah and Jesus are the same these elders would change their minds on a whim and be like oh ok I see where they get that in scripture 😂
Really a gentle and fine person leaving an organization that I think pleased our Lord. These elders are so misled. When they talked obout God sacrificed his Son I was numm. Jesus took his life back as his body took the last breath, cause He was and is both spirit and flesh. We cannot say its the same as when we loose a child. And this " Jesus turning into the archangel Michael shocked me. It must be horribel to be in an organication like this, we all need to belong to those we love and I wish this brave man everything good + his family. ❤
This makes me sick. The elders are acting like it is not their fault that they are judging, shunning and ruining this brothers life by seperating him from hos wife and family... They act like they love and respect him, but they are hypocritical! They show no respect or love and they even put the blame on him for their disfellowshipping and judgment.
@@OhioPIMO you were very patient and honest with them. I am waiting for the elders to summon me for a judgment. The last 2 years they have tried but I refused to have meetings with them, without being able to bring a friend for moral and spiritual support (and as a witness). I don't want to play their game, they have no real power unless we give it to them. I have left the organisation and I have told them why directly face to face (no letters and no private meetings) .. a part of me want to go if they summon me just to be able to record them like this 😅 but I am afraid that I loose my temper on them and leave. I feel like this : Psalm 69:9 "because zeal for Your house has consumed me, and the insults of those who insult You have fallen on me." Psalm 119:139 "My zeal has consumed me because my foes forget Your words." When we follow and belong to our king Jesus, his zeal for his father will become our zeal and we will be able to see through all the hypocrisy and to expose it and bring it out in the light! I believe we all will have to show what really is in our hearts and we will be tested in these ways for God to be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Of course we have to have patience, love and mercy towards all but at the same time proudly take our stand for the truth. It is extremely hard when being married to a full on indoctrinated jw and having 2 children together. But when you see the truth there is no way back.
When this young man talked about his mother, who was shunned and how it affected his kids when she died . The lack of sympathy and the lack of compassion was exactly 💯 lacking in Christian love.
They are more worried about brotherhood stuff than his soul. Legally, they are more concerned about the benchmark name than he being a follower of Christ Jesus. Just sad. Everybody should recognize this is a cult. Please pray that Jehovah witnesses change their doctrines and focus more on love than judging ones for thinking for themselves and their family. Your relationship with God is a personal one.
I'm half way through. At this point it feels to me that they don't think they've got enough on him for apostasy, so they are talking him into disassociating himself, getting him to say he no longer wants to be a JW. They are not allowed to do that! I'll carry on listening though.
“I don’t know why spirit directed was removed” 😂😂😂 and they don’t question that? I would absolutely want to know why they took that out!!!! So you’re no longer gonna say the organization is spirit directed during baptism (verbal agreement) but you still say 100% that the organization is spirit directed…..interesting 😂
Where does the Bible say you cant talk to others about the false teachings of the jehovahs witnesses and where does the Bible say you must believe the same as the jehovahs witnesses do ?
If that's what he was doing - talking about the "false" teachings of JW's to others, then he was a cancer inside of the Organization. Try undermining any other institution from the inside like that. Try that at work. Try that against the Government and see if there aren't any repercussions. If he had the courage of his convictions he would have disassociated himself. You people are fools to be making a martyr and an idol out of a man like this.
MY GOD IN HEAVEN, THESE MEN CAN BABBLE ON FOREVER AND STILL NOT SAY ANYTHING. They dont even understand that what they do say they might as well be standing in front of a mirror. Sheesh this is a cult.
The elders forget about Christ like qualities such as mercy, empathy, love, and understanding in these meetings. It's all about legalese. Contracts. "You said this or agreed to this at your baptism when you said yes. You have now broken the contract"....a contract between you and the organisation. It's so disgustingly pharisaical. ...and utterly unscriptural . In a meeting I had with 2 elders before my jc an elder said to me, "If you joined the working man's club and agreed to their rules, then decided you no longer wanted to follow the rules, you would either have to resign or get kicked out". The elders are enforcers of the organisation's rules. But of course, if I was kicked out of a club, those people will stilll be able to talk to me, and I wouldn't be kicked out of my family at the same time. It's a lousy, heartless, analogy. Human lives are secondary. It really is idolatry /worship of the organisation.
Listening to that smug prick laughing after each one of his comments like he doesn't have the power to take away all your friends and family and ruin your life was rage inducing. JW elders mental gymnastics is mind blowing. They'll bend over backwards to convince themselves they aren't doing something horrific and cruel. "Still here if you need us" "we still love and respect you" "our duty is to provide love and care" through fake smiles and awkward laughter, all the while dancing around the fact that they're about to throw you into solitary confinement just because your beliefs no longer align. Sickening
I have come to the same conclusion Bart Ehrman has. Nonetheless, you defended your position magnificently. With love, A former elder, pioneer, and 1991 MTS grad
That Watchtower is regarding disfellowshipped ones (removed), not those who have disassociated. I’ve already experienced this recently by a former friend who assumed I was disfellowshipped (b/c the announcement is the same for both). Once I told him I disassociated & wasn’t reproved or removed, he literally ran for the hills. Lastly, @ the 41 min mark: these men have no clue what the founder & his forced 2nd in command taught. Everything that Russell taught is completely different from what the Knorr/Franz regime started teaching, including the worship of Jesus. Russell gathered that through his studies, even though he was a legit con man.
Yup, its all semantics and has the same outcome. They changed the wording because they lost religious status in Norway and their subsequent government funding. They lost because they are guilty of human rights abuses because of the shunning. If Satan rules this world, why are they appealing to these name changes and to Norway and begging for their money... GREEDY WICKED MEN!
1:37:22 the “magic scripture” may have been the one he asked them to turn to, but they ignored. These recordings are very triggering. They have no clue what love is… It isn’t what they are trained for. They did not truly hear what he had to say. They only heard him disagreeing with them and that’s enough to destroy a family and marriage.
See how they lie about Churches?? The Biggest lie is how they bad mouth all other Worship, and all other Worship is just as serious about GOD, even more than Jehovah’s WITNESSES!! A sin?? Going to visit a Church is a sin??? It is just another Worship!!!
I don't understand why they just drag this out so much and why he keeps trying to resist the ultimate reason. You either follow the organization, do what they say, or you're out, that's it? That's that's all there is to talk about. I don't know why they keep dragging this out. Either you agree to everything or nothing and you're shut off.That's it.That's all they have to say.
@anniesavedbygrace oh, i totally know that and get it. Unfortunately the Elders/GB don't really care about that. In the end it is cut and dry..that is the price you pay for not submitting to their way. They aren't going to make an exception and treat him differently than they have all other disfellowshipped ones that have gone before..
By drawing the discussion out he was probably trying to shine a light on clear unchristian aspects of the watchtower organisation. You could tell that they weren’t happy that he was going to be there for the announcement. The unwarranted arrogance of the leadership of this group is repulsive
@Peps1975 he definitely was ready to present differences in theology he discovered at the end.. they were pretty silent at that point "you can't change my mind"
I do think this is a rare Occassion where they really care. & will be there for his family or if he has a change of heart. Haven’t seen it in our area.
According to the JWs unless he committed adultery she cannot divorce him. Typically it becomes very uncomfortable at home, the marriage is strained, etc. Often, the partner that is still a witness is encouraged to limit interaction with their kids and the disfellowshipped partner because they are “bad association”.
you make the right decision to follow Jesus and not men. Organiztions come and go but the bible, jesus and God dont change, you dont need a organization to follow God, thats clear from reading the bible.
DH do you know if this was recorded before the Disfellowshipping agreement was disbanded and the language was changed to separated from the congregation or was this recorded during that transitionary period?
@ okay, that makes a lot more sense why they were pushing so hard to convince him that he was “separating himself” rather than them admitting they were Disfellowshipping him. Thank You for being there for him through this difficult time, I pray his marriage stays intact and that his wife eventually come around to salvation as well.
Appears to be different numbers of presiding elders alternating. Or maybe this was added later to an audio version. Looks weird. That poor brother was clearly wasting his time with those blind guides.
@@OhioPIMO Question: Have things changed in regards to being allowed to fellowship. Many years ago when I was "disfellowshipped" there was no going back on occasions to the Kingdom Hall. A person was completely shunned and a member could be disciplined for associating with him/her. Has that changed? Thanks for taking the time to answer if you have the opportunity. God bless.🙏
They’re more interested in the organization and the arrangement set up by the governing body then they are about Jesus. One of them men said at 36:52 he should do more deep study into the watchtower publications basically to re-indoctrinate him into the faults teachings that he’s already woken up from reading the Bible itself. I bleed with you my brother, so many other EXJWs like myself have been in your situation. Stay firm in your faith in Christ Jesus and he will lead you like the Good Shepherd you know him to be! Thank you Father for drawing us to your Son. John 6:44-65
Listening to the committee meeting seems depressing to me becasue of the tone . The communications go back and forth and dont seem to accomplish much just shows how closed and narrow minded religions operate and are. I am glad i can identify this and have not desire to be a part of anything like this. You see if people have to go thru experiecnes like this I have to ask myself the question or questions . Do i want to do all this to obtain salvation?? meaning go thur this way of thinking to be approved ?? No thank you .
This is nauseating and being out of this religion it’s really hard to listen to the fallacy and misrepresentation of God. The elder, in the end, inadvertently gives up all authority they have over this man by saying, “I hope you are making a decision agreeable by God.” Then corrects himself saying “you will make a decision agreeable,” now saying the only agreeable way is theirs. If they stand under God with all authority to judge and cast away anyone that does not agree and gaslight them saying it is their decision for man made consequences that will be reaped upon them, then that is classic and textbook emotional blackmail and abuse. Sorry, the Christ we know does not operate this way.
35:42 one of the elders admits he would not have had the moral character to honor the organization by appearing at a judicial committee if he came to the same conclusions the person being disfellowshipped (removed) has, and would have not given the elders entrusted with judging him the time of day. Interesting.
OK, Again, I am an ExJW who has faded. I hate the DFing cult process, but once again here, I actually think the elders are right. The fact is, he has made it clear to them he doesn't want to be a JW. Now he could have faded and that would be it. But to let them find out he's gone to another church, and then gone to this and told them - what does he expect. Of course they are going to do it. Doe he really expect them to say, OK, carry on going to another church. We KNOW what they're going to this. So just fade and disappear and stop trying to change the cult. It is their cult, their rules - don't try and change it or they will use the punitive processes the cult has. Cults be culting!
@@Mr.Market777You were removed for sin, something clearly defined as such in scripture, and were unrepentant. If you can find a Watchtower article that says a JW will be disfellowshipped for attending, not joining, another church I'll quit my whining.
Congrats on your successful fade. I tried to go that route, but they didn't let me. I know I didn't HAVE to meet with them, but I felt like I did at the time to show respect for my wife's beliefs. We made the decision together, and I knew what was going to happen before I walked in the door. Everyone's situation is different and I'm glad yours worked out. The reason I made my experience available is not to trash the elders, but only to expose this flawed arrangement for what it is, a cult. I think listening to my experience will benefit some in similar situations, and in fact, I know that it already has. So please don't think I'm bitter and hating on the elders. I do genuinely love 2 of those dudes and I feel sorry for them that being henchmen for this cult put them in this situation because I know they didn't want to do this.
@@thewatchtowerstudy4511 I can see your rationale. I also faded and fortunately did not have family in the cult. What I find courageous of this man is that he recorded and released the content. I believe that if most newly interested folks or converts to this religion were to hear this … basically the message is “you’ve got to believe everything or else you’ll get booted out” … most would turn away from the organization. Most people that get attracted to this religion would not believe what’s actually spoken behind closed doors by elders. After all, JWs seem like such nice people.
Quite often you aren't permitted to just fade and disappear. Once they have any inkling you are not in agreement with the organisation, you're seen as a potential threat to the sheep.
@@OhioPIMO Don't get me wrong, I do understand your motives. I do accept completely that we are all in a different situation in leaving this cult and you have to do what you feel is right. My general point is just that it's 'the management', the cult doctrine that is totally wrong (and should be illegal) of shunning. I just wanted to make the point that I didn't hear the elders do or say anything wrong here. I feel they were genuinely seeing the DFing as a last resort. But ultimately, they weren't left with a choice. They have to follow the cult rules. The mistake in my opinion is thinking that logical reasoning will change anything. I've learned this with my still IN family. You can think "OH MY GOD HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT" inside, and yet never win with them. They instead look at you like you should be pitied or that Satan has you, or you're just prideful thinking you're clever. Look how many times these elders are proud to say they don't understand things from the bible and submit to the organisation with pride. Cult members do not know they are in a cult. Well do on your bravery though and good luck with your exit journey! Trust me, it all gets better, and fast.
At the end,it doesn’t matter how”soft and understanding”the whole kangaroo court sounds,he will loose his entire social infrastructure;his friends and relatives and he would have to deal with loneliness, till perhaps he could build new relationships.This is a very destructive cult and once you decide to leave,life won’t be the same anymore;either for the best or for worse,depending how you tackle the effects of ever being emotionally attached and entangled with one of the very worst cults of the last 150 years. One you have realised that JW are truly a horrible cult,it will be the game changer;you have cracked open their man made mind control system clay pot.where all kinds of fallacies are cooked.
When JWs are going to convert a Catholic per say, they should they’ll that person that their Catholic friends and families will cut all contact with them once they join the WT. because practically if Catholics follow that rule, they need to follow on that. And let’s see if they will convert that person😟
Can someone help me out here. Im a former jehovahs witness disfellowshiped and im not sure about the end of the video. Is he disfellowshiped and will he be cut off from family and friends even though he doesn't want to be a jehovahs witness?
I believe, although they never explicitly stated it, they consider that I disassociated myself by attending a church and said "amen" to a prayer. It was announced that I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and word has already gotten around that I "wrote a letter and want nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses." I went to the Sunday meeting after the announcement was made and some people greeted me, others looked me in the eye and turned their backs to me. My brother is the only family left in the org on my side, and I haven't heard a word from him, nor anyone in my wife's family. I have 2 real friends who are physically in mentally in, perhaps questioning, who have maintained contact with me.
@@OhioPIMO I'll be your friend. I live in the UK but we can be buddies! I was never baptized but my family are all witnesses...I left when I was young .Took an interest in the Bible and nearly joined back up to JWs but before I did I wanted to know why other (real)Christians had such different views.. thats when i realised JWs are so wrong and Jesus is eternally begotten from the Father..not created therefore making him God.
Having listened to even more of this - I have to admit that these elders are full of shit and infuriating too. I guess my issue is - why do people engage in this cult and think they will win this debate - it's a cult! - just leave. If people shun you then they are toxic and you don't need them in your life. In time, you'll make real non-cult friends
Just a waste of time and petrol. As Shakespeare said to thin self be true. If you don't agree it's impossible for a thinking individual just to go along as if you were a child.
This does not show love. It is completely bereft of any mercy and understanding and anyone, especially from the outside (of this morally bankrupt org., in my opinion) should be shocked at what takes place. Ever since the biblical beginnings, literally, is a story of arrogance, inhumility and division. Us vs. them, if you are not with us you are against us and on and on and on. A recipe for unhappiness strife and disaster. When will humanity "wake up" from the delusion???
PAINFUL TO HEAR. First of all, your baptism is not a verbal or written contract to anyone, a man or organization, it is to Jehovah God ONLY. Not one person or entity can manage your personal contract with God. The WATCHTOWER acknowledges this in writing in their publications. The Elders are Corporate Officers or Agents of WATCHTOWER Corporation, NOT that of the unincorporated name "Jehovah's Witnesses", [which is a free church of Christ, non incorporated], that cannot be legally managed by a Corporate entity [WATCHTOWER], according to IRS 501C3 Rules. WATCHTOWER cannot excommunicate, disfellowship or fire any JW publisher, because they are in no way a member in contract with WATCHTOWER Corporation. A JW that id NOT an Elder, pioneer or Servant, is a volunteer from the public. All Meetings held at the Kingdom Hall are WATCHTOWER Corporation organized, Use Corporate publications teaching Corporate bi-laws, and are open to the public for anyone to come and listen without membership or obligations. EVERYTHING A JW DOES IS: VOLUNTEER, not contractual. Therefore, the WATCHTOWER can be sued if they excommunicate you, for: defamation of character, non disclosure of terms and conditions in a contract that does not exist, possible loss of jobs or work in connection to the excommunication, clergy penitent privilege was breached when they discussed this matter to the Body of Elders [Corporate agents]. The WATCHTOWER must PRODUCE EVIDENCE THAT YOU BREACHED YOUR CONTRACT WITH THEM, YOUR MEMBERSHIP CARD, YOUR CONTRACT AND PROOF OF BAPTISM TO THE CORPORATION, NOT TO GOD, etc. Not only are the elders dumb as a fence for believing they are representing God instead of being WATCHTOWER CORPORATE AGENTS, but ALL JW's are also guilty of being guilty of IGNORANCE OF LAW, both Biblically and legally, or they would never show up in a committee meeting, and you can make the entire meeting never happen by presenting a notarized AFFIDAVIT via USPS Certified Mail with proof of delivery, requesting they prove your membership amongst other things, with a 10 day mandatory rebuttal from them in an AFFIDAVIT, by the elder body for their proof of claim against you. If they do not answer your legitimate truth and facts questions in the AFFIDAVIT in the time frame given, by law, they terminate the entire procedure and legally must acquiesce to your AFFIDAVIT whether they attempt to answer it or ignore it. They can never touch you again. IF YOU EVER WANT TO REVERSE THEIR DECISION THROUGH AN AFFIDAVIT WITHOUT NOTHING MORE THAN A POSTAGE STAMP, all of this will go away within two weeks because these ignorant A-holes are clueless that they cannot do what they are doing legally, unless YOU CONSENT TO IT. Use the legal process of: RULE OF DISCOVERY in order to send them an AFFIDAVIT to appeal their Corporate process against a non-Corporate person as yourself. STOP FIGHTING IN THEIR BACK ROOM TRIBUNALS, ARGUING AGAINST THEIR CORPORATE BI-LAWS you are not under. JW's are under Biblical Law, Not WATCHTOWER Corporate Bi-Laws in which they run their billion dollar Corporation under.
Im 4min in and triggered already. Who made them gods small f...n g. Baptism into the org and rules at the time. Where is that in the bible ? I was able to faid away but it forever strains relationship with family. Captives of a concept Free in Christ the real Truth and never been more content in his love. Bless you brother and your family.
One is in deed with Christ for his life , Christ own every one of us thrue his blood ,even Satan cant owned our soul, because Christ bouth it back with his life .
9:44 you sayed "this text was about not beliving that Jesus come to earth in flesh. I not denyed that". But at some point you should clarify it by "In the worst case, as a WORDLY PEOPLE" 11:33 yes, interesting that your publications sayed that you dont do that BECAUSE THE WORLD dont allow you to do that [i dont remember the literature quote] 35:00 instead aboout 'i thought aboout threatning legal action(...)', you should say "so, why the lawers of WT sayed that this DOESNT HAPPEN(shunning)?" 36:20 you had ONLY ONE JOB. That is be prepared to discuss about the DF arranjement and WHY this is unfair. We x-jw have to make materials educating the people about how to act at Judicial comitee. The trinity and things like this, you should avoid. 37:29 This is the point. The elder DIDNT lie when he sayed that. OF course that even at subjects where this is a MANUVER to not facing the errors demostrate in previous conversations, this is pretty true about Trinity.[in contruction] . 54:45 YOU KNOW WHAT? I guess your 'defense' should be not about Being DF, but about HOW they would suggest your family to MAANAGE this arranjement about YOU. Because yes, sound's impossible you not being DF. You Give for then ALL THE INFORMATION they need to do it. If you frame the question about you not 'understanding how to explain', maybe you should have a little more chance.
The Bible says "baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" therefore its a biblical teaching and therefore should be carried out as is said....its not a church made up formula that JW should ignore just to be different from other churches.
I have come to the realization that you don't owe the people an explanation for anything you believe. Do you see yourself still as one of Jehovah's witnesses? None of your business! What do you believe in now because we are concerned about your spiritual well-being. Again I owe you no explanation! That's between me and the creator. As imperfect people you are the least to judge my well being or make a determination if I'm doing it according to your liking. So sick and tired of folks giving these bastards a platform to stand on.
@@OhioPIMO I must say you practiced extraordinary patience and so did they but it was clear from the beginning being "one of JWs" was not in alignment with your views. It was a forgone conclusion at the get go I thought. I wouldn't have bothered but I certainly nominate you as most gracious. You kept the peace and so did they as far as they could under their own obedience to the hierarchy.
@@z63615 I'm not sure if you're getting at something specific, but in general the other half thinks I'm wrong and making a mistake. Much like these elders, she puts a lot of emphasis on the fruits of the organization. The ones she perceives as good anyway, and dismisses the rotten.
@@OhioPIMO ah yes the "fruits of the organization" like as "in the truth". That reminds me of when Jesus cursed a fig tree because it didn't bear fruit out of season . I want to ask more questions but I don't want to pry without your permission.You've given so much already exposing yourself which was grievous to say the least. It's your daughters I'm thinking about but you're on the level and you're also between a rock and a hard place so to speak.
They were more worried about him leaving the organization than making sure he is saved.
For their system, the two are synonymous
Because if you are not apart of the organization you are not saved . That’s how they believe. It’s not that Jesus saves they believe being a jw saves.
I’m so saddened by this recording. The guy has such a mild and gentle personality.
Good that he had the courage to record and release this recording. Folks wouldn’t believe how inhumane these elders are without listening to these behind closed doors discussions.
Any person studying with JWs that listens to this will realize how harmful this religion is. Basically if you don’t believe everything … you’re going to get booted out!
"We HAVE TO let the friends know that you don't want to be one of jehovags witnesses" NO you don't....in time the 'friends' will figure that out themselves. If someone walks away....let them go. Anything else is just pure evil!
Sadly not how it works in a cult . Public shame is the norm
@@anniesavedbygrace It is evil! Yet, Christ will use his experience and testimony mightily to deliver many others from the bondage of deceit!
Thank you Jesus!!!
You left a great testimony towards the End. You planted seed. We all need to plant seed. We need to let them know there in the wrong. I pray they think about what you said. 🙏
Good for you for standing up for what you believe in. Sorry you had to go through all of that. I hope you’re able to rebuild your life.
This is worse than canceling a gym membership.
😂😂
@@jeffpeff Far WORSE! The gym won't kidnap your family and friends and extort you,... nor will they require two witnesses to your child being raped or molested.
Sick.
The worst words anyone could ever hear are…. Depart from me I never knew you!!! Instead of welcome good and faithful servant. These “elders” are on a bad path 💔💔🙏🙏
The last video enraged me, this one saddens me!!!
Option 1. "OhioPIMO is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses."
Option 2. "Depart from me I never knew you."
Kind of a no-brainer, but devastating nonetheless... At least now I'm free to help others make their exit. This cult needs go!
@@OhioPIMO Amen brother!!! Like Joseph,... what they meant for evil against you,... God is already multiplying for good!
He is Risen!
I truly appreciate what you had to go through. I’ve been there myself and I don’t wish that on anyone. The fact is their love is conditioned to be organizational policy and not love of neighbor!
Please know that the way I see this is you brought them CHRIST and they reject it because they obey the doctrine of men! You don’t need me to say it but be proud because you took a stand for truth and we know that the “truth” is John 14:6 our LORD and savior and there is NO name that we are saved through but his! God bless my brother.
1:25:39 - ABSOLUTELY love your words here. I feel like their silence was a bit of how "the real truth just hits different" ....what you said is so true and Bible based. There is NO organization. -- they don't get just following Jesus is enough, that we are enough because of him, it's a free gift....not our "works" so that no one can boast.
You tried making so many great points that were lost on them, but hopefully it planted a seed with at least one of them. This was all so very triggering of conversations that I've attempted with family....really super proud of how you held your composure. Thank you for sharing. I hope that things in your life will get better with your wife. ❤
@@eyesontheprize5 Well said! Great description.
This is one more reason that I never became a Jehovah's Witness. There's absolutely no way that I would ever let Shemp,Larry and Moe sit on a panel and judge me.
These Elder drew out this conversation. It’s clearly this jw doesn’t want to be part of a high control. His eyes are opened.
I have no idea why this took so long, but I am glad they took time and gave me the opportunity to plant some seeds
@OhioPIMO you did an awesome job brother....I woke up in 2017....was pimo til 2020 when I left! I feel the same way you do about Jesus! It feels good to have a relationship with the real Jesus! I was a jw for 32 years....I am so glad to be awake! Watchtower is really a dangerous cult who use disfellowshipping or now they call removed as emotional blackmail.....thank you for sharing your experience....I have been fortunate....the elders have left me alone....it's well known amongst the friends how I feel about the organization....not once since I left have the elders made an attempt to check on me or even have a conversation....when I was fading...the only thing they were concerned with is did I have field service time....the service overseer would text me and ask me if I had time....just cracks me up how these elders didn't want to discuss scriptures....they were more interested in defending the theology of the organization.....and the one elder even admitted....I have a feeling there is going to be more changes and new light....I hope what you planted some seeds for them to think about
@@OhioPIMO I hope you did. They’re so staunch. I was married to a jw for 21 years I wonder if I made a dent in her belief.
@@OhioPIMOBe strong, & keep studying the Bible. They can’t unhear what u shared. Their pride & belief system is contaminating critical thinking. Also, that perceived power that Elders have is intoxicating. If they r humble men, they will take the time to truly examine the scriptures shared vs. being dogmatic in a crooked belief system.
Don't tell this man to read articles, READ THE BIBLE!!!!!
When asked to have a Bible study, the Elder asks 'What publication would we use?" Shows just how far from God they are when they choose to follow man's publication.
How Narcissitic is this. You don't see things our way so we're gonna run around (announce your name) to the 'friends' to blacken your name and reputation before you can grass on me.
I left the organization over 4 years ago. My wife very much still in. During my exit, my wife insisted I talk to the elders. I refused. I ended up talking with my father, an elder and it became very clear that he had zero interest in what I thought. His only concern was making me think like him. This confirmed my thoughts about refusing to talk with my elders as does your conversation with your elders. They only want to make you think like them. If they can do that the are only concerned with silencing you. That is the very definition of a cult. If they truly have the truth, they should be encouraging you to listen to opposing beliefs knowing that the truth they allegedly have will hold up to scrutiny. They dont do that so silencing defectors is their only weapon. The sad part it, it works.
Haughtiness is a bad quality or characteristic that is deeper than a mental conclusion. Jesus Christ named it along with murder, thievery, blasphemy, and other wrongdoing and said that “from inside, out of the heart of men,” such things issue forth. (Mr 7:21, 22) Jesus’ earthly mother Mary said of Jehovah: “He has scattered abroad those who are haughty in the intention of their hearts.” (Lu 1:51)
I would love an update on how you’re doing now, the struggles, anything unexpected? You were so kind, I’m sorry you went through this, I hope you can work on building a fulfilling life.
This is unscriptural but the governing body has decided that it can override the scriptures
JW elders are complicit in the evils of this organization
Really difficult, and I admire the humbleness yet sticking to Jesus no matter the consequences. Ohio pimo ( now pomo), be assured that Jesus is loyal to those loyal to Him. He pulls the humble and sincere out and makes them His.
There’s a rough road ahead, I know because I lost my wife and children for the same reason, but He will pull you through to seasons of refreshment. Be patient and wait on Him.
Perhaps your family will follow in time and come out of the cult, the Holy Spirit works in amazing ways.
Remember Job and his outcome. You are no longer part of the shifting sands and don’t feel like you need to be.
On a side note… will those 3 guys ever shut up?😅
All the best to you, and may you be rewarded for seeking truth and serving our King.
@@K_e_n_ Amen and Amen!!! What they mean for evil,... Jesus will turn to good!!!
The Cult of the Russelites
It was Rutherford that started the disfellowshipping. Russell used to publicly debate those who disagreed with him.
@Miles_Carditis you are correct in saying that Rutherford is responsible for disfellowshipping. But Russell is the originator of the movement and his errant theology is responsible for leading millions astray. He even stated that the bible cannot be read on its own, apart from his interpretation of it
Right from the beginning prayer the elders ask for "accurate knowledge". Yet they prohibit anyone from looking at information "outside the organization" that would disagree with their doctrine. If it's really "The Truth" you got nothing to worry about! Then they ask this guy if believes the bible is the source of truth(approx 16:30). He answers in the affirmative. Then the elders say "well that eliminates quite a few organizations(religions)". The JW elders just eliminated themselves based on their adulterated bible. I feel this guy's pain and he was WAY more patient than I would have been. These elders are brainwashed robots supporting an organization that has based their religion on false doctrine and false prophecy.
Freedom in Christ ❤
They love to keep saying that he is making this decision, not them. They will not acknowledge that each member of the congregation will shun him and will be held to account if they don't. They don't have a choice if they want to have a relationship with their family and friends that they have known their whole lives. Their love is conditional and to say any different is an outright lie. Stay in with a gun to your head or be shunned. He shouldn't have backed down on the threat to sue them, personally. More and more are using the legal system to prevent their names from being announced from the platform. How many window cleaners and floor buffers can afford to defend their decision in court??
This is a foundation of abuse. Same goes in line in domestic violence when the victim is accused of causing the aggressor to abuse them, and my elders did this to me, they are programmed. It is sad they don't see this and shows how lost and blind they truly are.
The worst, appalling kangaroo judicial sitting.
1:08:38 "We are the only organisation doing that." Sweeping statement / Generalisation - incorrect. May church, a Baptist church, often goes around proselytising and often we come across JDubs
They live in their own bubble
"Perfect direction, imperfect people"? Is that what the JW said?
Really?
Then why so many changes?
it's word salad
@foolhardy587 Maybe they'll be unburdened by what has been. LOL
41:34 the NWT has been at times 'refined' to support those points of view....WOW missed that 1st time around...so Gods Word needed to be refined to support mans understanding. Im Gobsmacked!
Nice catch! Ugh. One day I'll work up the courage to send these recordings to these blind guides so they can hear themselves...
I hate it how the elders say they respect him and that they each have free will to choose for themselves what path to take and that they can simply "agree to disagree". That implies a peaceful and amicable parting of the ways, but it's not like that at all. They have the power in their hands to punish you for exercising your free will by ripping your family away from you and destroying your reputation. And they use that power! The person on trial has no such power. What an imbalance. What a gross injustice. How thick must the elders be to think there's no problem if he doesn't want to be a jw anymore and an announcement is made? Their attitude was "you get what you want, so what's the problem?" Duh!!! I had the same thing from the elders at my jc meeting.
The bottom line is , he’s being punished for not agreeing with the elders agreeing with 11 guys in upstate New York. It has nothing to do with the Bible. It’s with him disagreeing with the governing body. That religion is a complete and utter joke.
This cracks me up, if any jehovah witnesses were in their home or felt threatened they would call the police to protect them and last I check police carry guns... 😂
I wish he would take legal action against them, as he told them he had considered doing. Make them take responsibility for literally punishing him for not believing as they do.
How do you deny someone their right to religious freedom? Punish them for it.
46:50 "The brothers have humility, they don't have all the answers - they are willing to make adjustments because they come from Jehovah". Oh, so Jehovah didn't tell them correctly the first time? Jehovah doesn't know who he is? Charles Taze Russel stated in the Watchtower New Light cannot Extinguish Old Light. In the Bible, when God spoke, the prophets knew it was Him speaking and it was LOUD and CLEAR what the requirements were.
When i hear we have to agree to disagree. One side is not open. So not being open minded. I hope your family joins you.
JW’s are not interested in studying with already baptized witnesses. There’s no pay off to it, so to speak.
Back in the day when I was in, I asked an older pioneer witness “friend” to study with me, but she wasn’t interested because she wouldn’t be able to count the time.
It’s up to the individuals to decide??? what planet is he on? They just say whatever can come to their mind.
41:34 admitting that you changed a book to support your agenda and having it end with "and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll." - rev 22:19 NWT. CRazy like you really cant see the problem with that?
Jehovah sent his demi -god to die for our sins, but the JWs will tell you that this isn't polytheism. It's LITERALLY POLYTHEISM!
@markshark1613 it's very hard to show a jw things because of the way they think, luckily I helped a now good friend of mine a few months back with a simple question of is your God God or the watchtower? He looked at me funny and I said, no disrespect but if you said you wanted to leave at your next meeting would they tell the congregation you left the watchtower? No they would say you left Jehova. So again I ask you is your God God or the watchtower? Slowly I've been showing him Jesus and he's still a little caught up on the divinity of Jesus but he's starting to kind of understand it after simply reading the Bible on its own.
When uniformity is more important than truth, then they sacrifice the truth. I have experienced this with every dialog I've ever had with JWs.
Anyway, follow Christ, love one another, do good, seek truth. If that leads you out of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, then so be it.
I’m Only half way through but if the governing body said the next day Jehovah and Jesus are the same these elders would change their minds on a whim and be like oh ok I see where they get that in scripture 😂
Really a gentle and fine person leaving an organization that I think pleased our Lord. These elders are so misled. When they talked obout God sacrificed his Son I was numm. Jesus took his life back as his body took the last breath, cause He was and is both spirit and flesh. We cannot say its the same as when we loose a child. And this " Jesus turning into the archangel Michael shocked me. It must be horribel to be in an organication like this, we all need to belong to those we love and I wish this brave man everything good + his family. ❤
Thanks for video
You can’t win in a kangaroo court.
1 person in a room with many.!!!!!!
In my opinion you did WIN.
Tku
This makes me sick. The elders are acting like it is not their fault that they are judging, shunning and ruining this brothers life by seperating him from hos wife and family... They act like they love and respect him, but they are hypocritical! They show no respect or love and they even put the blame on him for their disfellowshipping and judgment.
It felt a bit like they were trying to gaslight me into thinking that I summoned THEM to the judicial committee. The nerve of these hypocrites!
@@OhioPIMO you were very patient and honest with them. I am waiting for the elders to summon me for a judgment. The last 2 years they have tried but I refused to have meetings with them, without being able to bring a friend for moral and spiritual support (and as a witness). I don't want to play their game, they have no real power unless we give it to them. I have left the organisation and I have told them why directly face to face (no letters and no private meetings) .. a part of me want to go if they summon me just to be able to record them like this 😅 but I am afraid that I loose my temper on them and leave. I feel like this : Psalm 69:9
"because zeal for Your house has consumed me, and the insults of those who insult You have fallen on me."
Psalm 119:139
"My zeal has consumed me because my foes forget Your words."
When we follow and belong to our king Jesus, his zeal for his father will become our zeal and we will be able to see through all the hypocrisy and to expose it and bring it out in the light! I believe we all will have to show what really is in our hearts and we will be tested in these ways for God to be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Of course we have to have patience, love and mercy towards all but at the same time proudly take our stand for the truth.
It is extremely hard when being married to a full on indoctrinated jw and having 2 children together. But when you see the truth there is no way back.
When this young man talked about his mother, who was shunned and how it affected his kids when she died . The lack of sympathy and the lack of compassion was exactly 💯 lacking in Christian love.
They are not led by holy spirit. How can it be spirit directed? By uninspired men?
As soon as the governing body changes it then np ie beards are now acceptable, tuesday we hate beards, Wednesday we luv beards...
They are more worried about brotherhood stuff than his soul. Legally, they are more concerned about the benchmark name than he being a follower of Christ Jesus. Just sad. Everybody should recognize this is a cult. Please pray that Jehovah witnesses change their doctrines and focus more on love than judging ones for thinking for themselves and their family. Your relationship with God is a personal one.
59:52 So clearly stated. Very good job. Jesus is The Only Begotten God. Not a created being.
Thanks!
This elder shunned his mom for over 30 years? What a fool.
33:03 Wow! These Pharisee hypocrites. Like Matthew 23:13, Unbelievable! Thank you for this powerful testimony.
I'm half way through. At this point it feels to me that they don't think they've got enough on him for apostasy, so they are talking him into disassociating himself, getting him to say he no longer wants to be a JW. They are not allowed to do that!
I'll carry on listening though.
“I don’t know why spirit directed was removed” 😂😂😂 and they don’t question that? I would absolutely want to know why they took that out!!!! So you’re no longer gonna say the organization is spirit directed during baptism (verbal agreement) but you still say 100% that the organization is spirit directed…..interesting 😂
Where does the Bible say you cant talk to others about the false teachings of the jehovahs witnesses and where does the Bible say you must believe the same as the jehovahs witnesses do ?
If that's what he was doing - talking about the "false" teachings of JW's to others, then he was a cancer inside of the Organization. Try undermining any other institution from the inside like that. Try that at work. Try that against the Government and see if there aren't any repercussions. If he had the courage of his convictions he would have disassociated himself. You people are fools to be making a martyr and an idol out of a man like this.
MY GOD IN HEAVEN, THESE MEN CAN BABBLE ON FOREVER AND STILL NOT SAY ANYTHING.
They dont even understand that what they do say they might as well be standing in front of a mirror.
Sheesh this is a cult.
The #2 question used to be “ his SPIRIT DIRECTED organization”
It’s not anymore. !
These elders are company men. They have no power.
I wish that man the best! I belive he is on the right way!
The elders forget about Christ like qualities such as mercy, empathy, love, and understanding in these meetings. It's all about legalese. Contracts. "You said this or agreed to this at your baptism when you said yes. You have now broken the contract"....a contract between you and the organisation. It's so disgustingly pharisaical. ...and utterly unscriptural . In a meeting I had with 2 elders before my jc an elder said to me, "If you joined the working man's club and agreed to their rules, then decided you no longer wanted to follow the rules, you would either have to resign or get kicked out". The elders are enforcers of the organisation's rules. But of course, if I was kicked out of a club, those people will stilll be able to talk to me, and I wouldn't be kicked out of my family at the same time. It's a lousy, heartless, analogy. Human lives are secondary. It really is idolatry /worship of the organisation.
Awww shit. Ive been waiting for this.
JW elders love to hear themselves talk.
Listening to that smug prick laughing after each one of his comments like he doesn't have the power to take away all your friends and family and ruin your life was rage inducing.
JW elders mental gymnastics is mind blowing. They'll bend over backwards to convince themselves they aren't doing something horrific and cruel. "Still here if you need us" "we still love and respect you" "our duty is to provide love and care" through fake smiles and awkward laughter, all the while dancing around the fact that they're about to throw you into solitary confinement just because your beliefs no longer align.
Sickening
You don’t need publications to understand the bible. Scripture interprets scripture.
I have come to the same conclusion Bart Ehrman has. Nonetheless, you defended your position magnificently.
With love,
A former elder, pioneer, and 1991 MTS grad
That Watchtower is regarding disfellowshipped ones (removed), not those who have disassociated. I’ve already experienced this recently by a former friend who assumed I was disfellowshipped (b/c the announcement is the same for both). Once I told him I disassociated & wasn’t reproved or removed, he literally ran for the hills.
Lastly, @ the 41 min mark: these men have no clue what the founder & his forced 2nd in command taught. Everything that Russell taught is completely different from what the Knorr/Franz regime started teaching, including the worship of Jesus. Russell gathered that through his studies, even though he was a legit con man.
Yup, its all semantics and has the same outcome. They changed the wording because they lost religious status in Norway and their subsequent government funding. They lost because they are guilty of human rights abuses because of the shunning. If Satan rules this world, why are they appealing to these name changes and to Norway and begging for their money... GREEDY WICKED MEN!
THAT CLOWN KNOWS DAAAM WELL THE QUESTIONS HAS CHANGED....AND THEY THOUGHT THAT WAS A WAY OF TRICKING HIM TO SAY HE NO LONGER WANT TO BE A JW.
Hard for them to harmonize lies with truth. Which god do they serve ? Dark or light
Its not that hard 😢
Their G.O.D. is the "Guardians of doctrine" as Geoffrey Jackson put it during the Australian Royal Commission, the governing body.
1:37:22 the “magic scripture” may have been the one he asked them to turn to, but they ignored.
These recordings are very triggering. They have no clue what love is… It isn’t what they are trained for. They did not truly hear what he had to say. They only heard him disagreeing with them and that’s enough to destroy a family and marriage.
1:09:03 The answer is good works. I really love this recording. Thx again.
See how they lie about Churches?? The Biggest lie is how they bad mouth all other Worship, and all other Worship is just as serious about GOD, even more than Jehovah’s WITNESSES!!
A sin?? Going to visit a Church is a sin??? It is just another Worship!!!
I don't understand why they just drag this out so much and why he keeps trying to resist the ultimate reason. You either follow the organization, do what they say, or you're out, that's it? That's that's all there is to talk about. I don't know why they keep dragging this out. Either you agree to everything or nothing and you're shut off.That's it.That's all they have to say.
@@jeffg1639 but his family...wife and kids arè in.... their decision to announce removal will considerably affect the way his family are treated.
@@anniesavedbygraceI don't understand how some people can't see that. Thank you
@anniesavedbygrace oh, i totally know that and get it. Unfortunately the Elders/GB don't really care about that. In the end it is cut and dry..that is the price you pay for not submitting to their way. They aren't going to make an exception and treat him differently than they have all other disfellowshipped ones that have gone before..
By drawing the discussion out he was probably trying to shine a light on clear unchristian aspects of the watchtower organisation. You could tell that they weren’t happy that he was going to be there for the announcement. The unwarranted arrogance of the leadership of this group is repulsive
@Peps1975 he definitely was ready to present differences in theology he discovered at the end.. they were pretty silent at that point "you can't change my mind"
I do think this is a rare Occassion where they really care. & will be there for his family or if he has a change of heart. Haven’t seen it in our area.
What happens now with his wife and kids?
Can someone explain the implications?
According to the JWs unless he committed adultery she cannot divorce him. Typically it becomes very uncomfortable at home, the marriage is strained, etc. Often, the partner that is still a witness is encouraged to limit interaction with their kids and the disfellowshipped partner because they are “bad association”.
you make the right decision to follow Jesus and not men. Organiztions come and go but the bible, jesus and God dont change, you dont need a organization to follow God, thats clear from reading the bible.
DH do you know if this was recorded before the Disfellowshipping agreement was disbanded and the language was changed to separated from the congregation or was this recorded during that transitionary period?
This was recorded in late October. I was on the phone with him before he walked in.
@ okay, that makes a lot more sense why they were pushing so hard to convince him that he was “separating himself” rather than them admitting they were Disfellowshipping him.
Thank You for being there for him through this difficult time, I pray his marriage stays intact and that his wife eventually come around to salvation as well.
Appears to be different numbers of presiding elders alternating. Or maybe this was added later to an audio version. Looks weird. That poor brother was clearly wasting his time with those blind guides.
The video is a loop from leaked elder training videos. It's just a visual to fill in the void.
@@OhioPIMO Question: Have things changed in regards to being allowed to fellowship. Many years ago when I was "disfellowshipped" there was no going back on occasions to the Kingdom Hall. A person was completely shunned and a member could be disciplined for associating with him/her. Has that changed? Thanks for taking the time to answer if you have the opportunity. God bless.🙏
50:02 They absolutely are taking them away from Jesus!
They’re more interested in the organization and the arrangement set up by the governing body then they are about Jesus. One of them men said at 36:52 he should do more deep study into the watchtower publications basically to re-indoctrinate him into the faults teachings that he’s already woken up from reading the Bible itself. I bleed with you my brother, so many other EXJWs like myself have been in your situation. Stay firm in your faith in Christ Jesus and he will lead you like the Good Shepherd you know him to be! Thank you Father for drawing us to your Son. John 6:44-65
THE LAST DAYS OF THE LAST DAYA. Jehovahs wickedness.
@41:10 Satan stripped God of his universal sovereignty?!?! Only in wt world...
..... has stripped away Jesus as our mediator.
Fill in the blank lol
Listening to the committee meeting seems depressing to me becasue of the tone . The communications go back and forth and dont seem to accomplish much just shows how closed and narrow minded religions operate and are. I am glad i can identify this and have not desire to be a part of anything like this. You see if people have to go thru experiecnes like this I have to ask myself the question or questions . Do i want to do all this to obtain salvation?? meaning go thur this way of thinking to be approved ?? No thank you .
49:05 they believe themselves too good and superior, to read the suggested scripture of the brother they claim they want to help and love so much!!
This is nauseating and being out of this religion it’s really hard to listen to the fallacy and misrepresentation of God. The elder, in the end, inadvertently gives up all authority they have over this man by saying, “I hope you are making a decision agreeable by God.” Then corrects himself saying “you will make a decision agreeable,” now saying the only agreeable way is theirs. If they stand under God with all authority to judge and cast away anyone that does not agree and gaslight them saying it is their decision for man made consequences that will be reaped upon them, then that is classic and textbook emotional blackmail and abuse. Sorry, the Christ we know does not operate this way.
35:42 one of the elders admits he would not have had the moral character to honor the organization by appearing at a judicial committee if he came to the same conclusions the person being disfellowshipped (removed) has, and would have not given the elders entrusted with judging him the time of day. Interesting.
The preaching work of lies and refinement.
OK, Again, I am an ExJW who has faded. I hate the DFing cult process, but once again here, I actually think the elders are right. The fact is, he has made it clear to them he doesn't want to be a JW. Now he could have faded and that would be it. But to let them find out he's gone to another church, and then gone to this and told them - what does he expect. Of course they are going to do it. Doe he really expect them to say, OK, carry on going to another church. We KNOW what they're going to this. So just fade and disappear and stop trying to change the cult. It is their cult, their rules - don't try and change it or they will use the punitive processes the cult has. Cults be culting!
@@Mr.Market777You were removed for sin, something clearly defined as such in scripture, and were unrepentant. If you can find a Watchtower article that says a JW will be disfellowshipped for attending, not joining, another church I'll quit my whining.
Congrats on your successful fade. I tried to go that route, but they didn't let me. I know I didn't HAVE to meet with them, but I felt like I did at the time to show respect for my wife's beliefs. We made the decision together, and I knew what was going to happen before I walked in the door. Everyone's situation is different and I'm glad yours worked out.
The reason I made my experience available is not to trash the elders, but only to expose this flawed arrangement for what it is, a cult. I think listening to my experience will benefit some in similar situations, and in fact, I know that it already has. So please don't think I'm bitter and hating on the elders. I do genuinely love 2 of those dudes and I feel sorry for them that being henchmen for this cult put them in this situation because I know they didn't want to do this.
@@thewatchtowerstudy4511 I can see your rationale. I also faded and fortunately did not have family in the cult.
What I find courageous of this man is that he recorded and released the content. I believe that if most newly interested folks or converts to this religion were to hear this … basically the message is “you’ve got to believe everything or else you’ll get booted out” … most would turn away from the organization.
Most people that get attracted to this religion would not believe what’s actually spoken behind closed doors by elders. After all, JWs seem like such nice people.
Quite often you aren't permitted to just fade and disappear. Once they have any inkling you are not in agreement with the organisation, you're seen as a potential threat to the sheep.
@@OhioPIMO Don't get me wrong, I do understand your motives. I do accept completely that we are all in a different situation in leaving this cult and you have to do what you feel is right. My general point is just that it's 'the management', the cult doctrine that is totally wrong (and should be illegal) of shunning. I just wanted to make the point that I didn't hear the elders do or say anything wrong here. I feel they were genuinely seeing the DFing as a last resort. But ultimately, they weren't left with a choice. They have to follow the cult rules. The mistake in my opinion is thinking that logical reasoning will change anything. I've learned this with my still IN family. You can think "OH MY GOD HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT" inside, and yet never win with them. They instead look at you like you should be pitied or that Satan has you, or you're just prideful thinking you're clever. Look how many times these elders are proud to say they don't understand things from the bible and submit to the organisation with pride. Cult members do not know they are in a cult. Well do on your bravery though and good luck with your exit journey! Trust me, it all gets better, and fast.
why are they called 'friends' when they are children of God? Have they stopped calling them brothers/sisters?
Witnesses are not children of God, but of the devil.
At the end,it doesn’t matter how”soft and understanding”the whole kangaroo court sounds,he will loose his entire social infrastructure;his friends and relatives and he would have to deal with loneliness, till perhaps he could build new relationships.This is a very destructive cult and once you decide to leave,life won’t be the same anymore;either for the best or for worse,depending how you tackle the effects of ever being emotionally attached and entangled with one of the very worst cults of the last 150 years.
One you have realised that JW are truly a horrible cult,it will be the game changer;you have cracked open their man made mind control system clay pot.where all kinds of fallacies are cooked.
When JWs are going to convert a Catholic per say, they should they’ll that person that their Catholic friends and families will cut all contact with them once they join the WT. because practically if Catholics follow that rule, they need to follow on that. And let’s see if they will convert that person😟
"Let's start with your failings." FFS.
59:00 well, how many Governing Bodies we have? 11 man now....yet they are still one Governing body.....
😮
Can someone help me out here. Im a former jehovahs witness disfellowshiped and im not sure about the end of the video. Is he disfellowshiped and will he be cut off from family and friends even though he doesn't want to be a jehovahs witness?
@@Mr.Market777Ridiculing the congregation? How so?
I believe, although they never explicitly stated it, they consider that I disassociated myself by attending a church and said "amen" to a prayer. It was announced that I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and word has already gotten around that I "wrote a letter and want nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses."
I went to the Sunday meeting after the announcement was made and some people greeted me, others looked me in the eye and turned their backs to me. My brother is the only family left in the org on my side, and I haven't heard a word from him, nor anyone in my wife's family. I have 2 real friends who are physically in mentally in, perhaps questioning, who have maintained contact with me.
@@Mr.Market777 you mean the governing body of jehovahs first and not jesus. That's what it boils down to in the end.
@@OhioPIMO You made a great defence of the true gospel. 🙏
@@OhioPIMO I'll be your friend. I live in the UK but we can be buddies! I was never baptized but my family are all witnesses...I left when I was young .Took an interest in the Bible and nearly joined back up to JWs but before I did I wanted to know why other (real)Christians had such different views.. thats when i realised JWs are so wrong and Jesus is eternally begotten from the Father..not created therefore making him God.
Having listened to even more of this - I have to admit that these elders are full of shit and infuriating too. I guess my issue is - why do people engage in this cult and think they will win this debate - it's a cult! - just leave. If people shun you then they are toxic and you don't need them in your life. In time, you'll make real non-cult friends
Just a waste of time and petrol. As Shakespeare said to thin self be true.
If you don't agree it's impossible for a thinking individual just to go along as if you were a child.
This does not show love. It is completely bereft of any mercy and understanding and anyone, especially from the outside (of this morally bankrupt org., in my opinion) should be shocked at what takes place. Ever since the biblical beginnings, literally, is a story of arrogance, inhumility and division. Us vs. them, if you are not with us you are against us and on and on and on. A recipe for unhappiness strife and disaster. When will humanity "wake up" from the delusion???
My brother let's figure it out together. How can we talk? Email? Let's talk about the Bible. I questioned things.
PAINFUL TO HEAR. First of all, your baptism is not a verbal or written contract to anyone, a man or organization, it is to Jehovah God ONLY. Not one person or entity can manage your personal contract with God. The WATCHTOWER acknowledges this in writing in their publications. The Elders are Corporate Officers or Agents of WATCHTOWER Corporation, NOT that of the unincorporated name "Jehovah's Witnesses", [which is a free church of Christ, non incorporated], that cannot be legally managed by a Corporate entity [WATCHTOWER], according to IRS 501C3 Rules.
WATCHTOWER cannot excommunicate, disfellowship or fire any JW publisher, because they are in no way a member in contract with WATCHTOWER Corporation. A JW that id NOT an Elder, pioneer or Servant, is a volunteer from the public. All Meetings held at the Kingdom Hall are WATCHTOWER Corporation organized, Use Corporate publications teaching Corporate bi-laws, and are open to the public for anyone to come and listen without membership or obligations. EVERYTHING A JW DOES IS: VOLUNTEER, not contractual. Therefore, the WATCHTOWER can be sued if they excommunicate you, for: defamation of character, non disclosure of terms and conditions in a contract that does not exist, possible loss of jobs or work in connection to the excommunication, clergy penitent privilege was breached when they discussed this matter to the Body of Elders [Corporate agents]. The WATCHTOWER must PRODUCE EVIDENCE THAT YOU BREACHED YOUR CONTRACT WITH THEM, YOUR MEMBERSHIP CARD, YOUR CONTRACT AND PROOF OF BAPTISM TO THE CORPORATION, NOT TO GOD, etc.
Not only are the elders dumb as a fence for believing they are representing God instead of being WATCHTOWER CORPORATE AGENTS, but ALL JW's are also guilty of being guilty of IGNORANCE OF LAW, both Biblically and legally, or they would never show up in a committee meeting, and you can make the entire meeting never happen by presenting a notarized AFFIDAVIT via USPS Certified Mail with proof of delivery, requesting they prove your membership amongst other things, with a 10 day mandatory rebuttal from them in an AFFIDAVIT, by the elder body for their proof of claim against you. If they do not answer your legitimate truth and facts questions in the AFFIDAVIT in the time frame given, by law, they terminate the entire procedure and legally must acquiesce to your AFFIDAVIT whether they attempt to answer it or ignore it. They can never touch you again.
IF YOU EVER WANT TO REVERSE THEIR DECISION THROUGH AN AFFIDAVIT WITHOUT NOTHING MORE THAN A POSTAGE STAMP, all of this will go away within two weeks because these ignorant A-holes are clueless that they cannot do what they are doing legally, unless YOU CONSENT TO IT. Use the legal process of: RULE OF DISCOVERY in order to send them an AFFIDAVIT to appeal their Corporate process against a non-Corporate person as yourself.
STOP FIGHTING IN THEIR BACK ROOM TRIBUNALS, ARGUING AGAINST THEIR CORPORATE BI-LAWS you are not under. JW's are under Biblical Law, Not WATCHTOWER Corporate Bi-Laws in which they run their billion dollar Corporation under.
Im 4min in and triggered already. Who made them gods small f...n g. Baptism into the org and rules at the time. Where is that in the bible ?
I was able to faid away but it forever strains relationship with family.
Captives of a concept
Free in Christ the real Truth and never been more content in his love.
Bless you brother and your family.
The answer is what Jesus did for us. We can do nothing to save ourselves. Love is lost on them. They judge everything 😂
No. They keep the congregation clean. As they are meant to.
@@mattgardiner614Clean from what, exactly?
@@OhioPIMO false stories and apostate lies as Lett said.
One is in deed with Christ for his life , Christ own every one of us thrue his blood ,even Satan cant owned our soul, because Christ bouth it back with his life .
9:44 you sayed "this text was about not beliving that Jesus come to earth in flesh. I not denyed that". But at some point you should clarify it by "In the worst case, as a WORDLY PEOPLE"
11:33 yes, interesting that your publications sayed that you dont do that BECAUSE THE WORLD dont allow you to do that [i dont remember the literature quote]
35:00 instead aboout 'i thought aboout threatning legal action(...)', you should say "so, why the lawers of WT sayed that this DOESNT HAPPEN(shunning)?"
36:20 you had ONLY ONE JOB. That is be prepared to discuss about the DF arranjement and WHY this is unfair. We x-jw have to make materials educating the people about how to act at Judicial comitee. The trinity and things like this, you should avoid.
37:29 This is the point. The elder DIDNT lie when he sayed that. OF course that even at subjects where this is a MANUVER to not facing the errors demostrate in previous conversations, this is pretty true about Trinity.[in contruction]
.
54:45 YOU KNOW WHAT? I guess your 'defense' should be not about Being DF, but about HOW they would suggest your family to MAANAGE this arranjement about YOU. Because yes, sound's impossible you not being DF. You Give for then ALL THE INFORMATION they need to do it. If you frame the question about you not 'understanding how to explain', maybe you should have a little more chance.
The Bible says "baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" therefore its a biblical teaching and therefore should be carried out as is said....its not a church made up formula that JW should ignore just to be different from other churches.
I have come to the realization that you don't owe the people an explanation for anything you believe. Do you see yourself still as one of Jehovah's witnesses? None of your business! What do you believe in now because we are concerned about your spiritual well-being. Again I owe you no explanation! That's between me and the creator. As imperfect people you are the least to judge my well being or make a determination if I'm doing it according to your liking. So sick and tired of folks giving these bastards a platform to stand on.
There's something else going on; something in the unsaid that's not being said. What's momma say.
What does momma say?
@OhioPIMO your other half.
@@OhioPIMO I must say you practiced extraordinary patience and so did they but it was clear from the beginning being "one of JWs" was not in alignment with your views. It was a forgone conclusion at the get go I thought. I wouldn't have bothered but I certainly nominate you as most gracious. You kept the peace and so did they as far as they could under their own obedience to the hierarchy.
@@z63615 I'm not sure if you're getting at something specific, but in general the other half thinks I'm wrong and making a mistake. Much like these elders, she puts a lot of emphasis on the fruits of the organization. The ones she perceives as good anyway, and dismisses the rotten.
@@OhioPIMO ah yes the "fruits of the organization" like as "in the truth". That reminds me of when Jesus cursed a fig tree because it didn't bear fruit out of season . I want to ask more questions but I don't want to pry without your permission.You've given so much already exposing yourself which was grievous to say the least. It's your daughters I'm thinking about but you're on the level and you're also between a rock and a hard place so to speak.