Keep in mind that the level of martial arts mastery Goku has would not only scale above the 30th degree black in kenpo, man-wolf. Also Goku's training under King Kai would literally put him centuries ahead of someone like Yujiro.
Go watch the Piccolo Jr Goku fight at thr end of Dragonball. Goku beats Piccolo mostly using Martial Arts while Piccolo using the full versatiliry of the verses powrr system. At most, Goku countered a beam from Piccolo and used the foot Kamehameha to catch a flying Piccolo. Goku is able to beat characters using the full kit his verse offers with mostly.pure martial arts. Thank god for Dragonball, it really highlights how much of a pure martisl arts prodigy Goku is. Goku was doing what Yuchiro was in terns of fighting entire armies and gigantic animals as a child as well.
I think the one attribute that did not get discussed but would be incredibly relevant in a battle of attrition like this. Would be each character's pain tolerance and ability to fight through injuries. Because that might prove more critical in a fight like this than being able to switch fighting styles or use new techniques on the fly.
Saiyan natural durability is quite unfair TBH they can handle some serious pain, especially vegeta. As well as do some weird things with their body like moving their pressure points, like what Goku did in the Granola arc.🤷🏾♀
Found this on my recommendation on watch the whole vid I found it entertaining. However what kills me is how unfair you scale Goku and Yujiro. You scale Yujiro to Baki in terms of skill level the problem with this is that Yujiro himself has never proven to be as skill as Baki at all through the whole series( I read Baki twice). I remember when Yujiro fought Doppo for the first time it was skill like fight within the beginning of the fight once it got one sided Yujiro basically concede since Doppo had him sweating and use the Demon back to finish him off which was basically Strength>Skill.(Remind you Yujiro we still stronger than Doppo in base form yet still need stats to win)Baki has already proven he can beat opponents stronger than him like Pickle and even use marital arts to keep up with his father in their final fight. Unlike Yujiro, Goku at least tries to utilize skills and tactics against stronger opponents which was Hit, Caulifa, Granola which you showcase in your own video. Now onto adaptability, martial arts, experience. You also claim that Yujiro can adapt to any martial arts that Goku has which could be true to an extent. Has Yujiro ever shown to adapt to Kiai fist or soaring Fist which accumulate multiple’s shockwave punches? Has he ever adapt to afterimage cloning technique on which Goku used against Whis? You agree that Goku could adapt to Yujiro but it would just take longer because he has more techniques but the problem with this is Yujiro himself. Yujiro doesn’t even depend on martial arts only times he uses martial arts if it’s only a demonstration through out the series so that’s not fair at all. You kept using Motobe statement as a vaild point. In which he hasn’t proven at all. He does seems like have high knowledge on the martial arts that have been demonstrated through out series but utilizing them in action(Like Cell)? I think not. I’m not sure you if you have cover experience but Goku should definitely have a point in experience due to his training with King Kai back. Training with King Kai equates to 1000 years of experience which could be a point to Goku. Also the 0.5 thing is nothing but just prediction Baki character can’t directly read brain signals. In chapter 33, page 9 it explains on how Musashi was just able to predict Baki attacks before he fully launches his attack. It’s basically Pre initiative if you read the Kengan series. However I think Goku predicting Hit timeskip is just that much better since he was outstat for a while. Unlike Yujiro he’s always depends on stats as usual. Also Ultra Instinct I agree I don’t think Yujiro has anything to counter at all.
You cant be serious its stated the whole series yujiro is the most powerful and skilled fighter in all of history even being more skillfull than all warriors in the past the moment you said not once yujiro displayed better skill than baki ik some was wrong, he only uses martial arts when he needs to bc he is physically above everyone in the verse. He is prob above even pickle now
@@nicksmh3565 He was above Pickle before too lol. You could argue that Pickle was physically stronger than base Yujiro, but Demon Back Yujiro >> Physically. Currently base Yujiro most probably >> Pickle physically
This is the issue with people when they scale martial arts in baki are superior because the show baki is about explaining everything. This is not a point . Plus, Goku has travelled across the world and has fought , met or seen everything including aliens and demons fighting styles , gods and angels his pull of skills is getting down played especially as we know martial arts evolves over time and Goku opponent and masters have too much experience that yujiro doesn't have
I’m pretty sure he literally covers this and explains that a lot of those instances aren’t dependent on skill, but more power ups. And even regardless of all of Goku skills and techniques, he saying that Baki would win the battle of nutrition when it comes to them just full on adapting to each other moves back-and-forth. Because Bucky has a more wide pool of techniques to draw from putting Goku in a tougher position when it comes to adapting then try new things to see what works. And then baki one shot techniques give him way more wind conditions. As the number one Goku meat rider I can’t be this bias. He makes a good point. Ultra instinct stomps, though not close. And I have arguments for a why, consider UI to be a technique more than a form at the bare minimum that needs the form to be perfected.
Did you even watch the video? He literally explains this like half way through. Either way you just explained a nothing point that doesn't actually have any tangible evidence. "He fights aliens and gets arbitrary experience" okay how can we use that? Well we can't because most of those instances are dependent on Goku growing in power rather than martial arts. Plus Yujiro can copy styles that don't exist after only seeing them once.
Interms of skill people who think its a fight dont know gokus martial arts, every fodder fighter in the 21st budokai back in dragonball is dozens of times more skilled than anyone in irl history and goku surpassed all of them at 12 years old. Since its a ufc fight with equal stats kid goku is just more skilled than adult yujiro
Goku is a master in wushu, not directly said but shown in his bodymovements, he also uses karate at times and a handful of times has used wrestling techniques
Yeah, but to be fair, he beat them all because of his insane power and speed. His skill didn’t become much of a factor until the second world martial arts tournament.
This is a conversation of skill goku stopped focusing on martial arts skills after vegeta cause he saw that no matter how good of a fight he can’t compete unless his power lvl gets higher yuijiro is in another league
I would agree. Stats equal and no ki manipulation, well Goku has more experience, Yujiro has shown a bigger martial arts move pool, giving him an edge since Goku could be caught off guard the first time a new skill he hasn't seen is used. And with both having adaptability that allows them to copy skills after seeing them once, I don't think either is winning solely on adaptability. All that being said current Goku has one major advantage, and that is UI as a fighting style. We know as of Granola arc he can utilize UI's style in all his forms. Even if you exclude the transformation, he has it as a fighting style anyway which gives him the same hax as the transformation, which gives him superior agility and speed winning current Goku the battle.
Oh hey dude! Super cool to see you here! I also agree 100% it’s just harder to guage to less accurate variations of UI used in Goku’s transformations as it gets increasingly more accurate with each subsequent transformation, a minor variation in base would def be threatening to Yujiro as we saw Goku apply in his training with Whis.
Dragon Ball was never a "martial arts only" focused manga and that's the problem when trying to scale it with actual martial arts centered mangas like Baki. DB had elements of martial arts sprinkled in the story here and there but for the most part it does whatever it wants. This is a manga that has martial arts, magic, aliens, demons, gods, cyborgs etc and all others kinds of mysticism Strictly boiling it down to its martial arts elements severly downplays and limits the other aspects of what's actually possible in that universe. Especially when compared to Baki who's in universe craziness is attemped to be grounded in the realm of "exaggerated realism" hence the narrator using real world situations to explain the craziness
Technically ki blasts and flight are a type of martial arts considered valid even for hand to hand. There is an in-universe question and answer column in one of the guidebooks (I think the Daizenshuu? I forget) that insinuates the Turtle Hermit knows most styles on Earth, I believe, for what that is worth. Arguably a moot point as Goku did not even actually learn real martial arts under him. Jackie Chun easily defeated a thirtieth level Kenpō black belt, which is a level that literally does not even exist. I would say the Kaiōken counts more as a technique rather than a transformation/genetic ability like the demon back so could be considered fair-game, which alongside Instinct Mastery would tip the scales further in Goku's favour.
Im sorry but i have to tell you that: ki technique=/= martial art prowess (idk if this is the right spelling english isnt my Mother language) but also does show you why db isnt good in the martial arts department as it does sound, the reason is because even with that (even when it doesnt count as h2h and is a part of his powers because ki is easier to use being an alien and other factors that depend on strenght) goku's style and fighting strategy is still highly flawed, for example he doesnt have a answer to grappling taking into account equal conditions of physical capabilities, every time that Goku is grabbed through the series he is shut down and need to power through, and every time that grappling fails is because his opponent is inexpert (a brawler like recoome, or a ginyu Who we see that he is heavily carried by his power level) or simply weaker than him even taking into account that flying is punishing heavily the wrestling/grappling part because you cant anchor a flying Guy in the air, other moments that he escapes using his techniques is on Filler arcs/non canon material😢 Other part Of Goku's strategy taking into account real martial arts is that his style does consist mainly in telegraphed heavy blows, leaving spaces to be exploited that arent because superspeed, even in ui a precise enough blow would be enough to pass it, same goes with speed (even when he is not blitzed) and abilities that wouldnt activate the reflex on the ultra instinct (like jin mori recoiless, style that doesnt telegraph ANY strike independent of from when and how is shot and allow him to fight stronger opponents, he even could fight dean, Who was copying his style and was seeing the future while he had a special amor and still could not counter him) and others like abilities that shut down his detecting sense or could Just ignore it This leads to his adaptability in combat, when a fight does not go Goku's way he does use his technique and stop relying on power... Until he can, we can see that in various parts of ANY db series, when he doesnt power through he lost (against cell, against black, against jiren, against piccolo daimao in his first encounter, against tien, and etc) and i can go on and on Goku is a great fighter and a good martial artist, but he does rely on his powers and experience difference against his enemies, we have better h2h fighters in manga/other media
Ki manipulation is a part of martial arts. Bukijutsu is the signature of the Crane-school, for example. Popo chastised Goku for relying too much on his senses and not on sensing via ki. Et cetera.
17:23 Nah, this actually isn’t true. A 13 year old Baki used literal instinctive reactions and moving on his own without his brain or mind thinking first…and Gaia was able to somewhat fight back against this. Then Yujiro went on to completely destroy Gaia and this version of Baki, as well as stronger versions of Baki with 0 difficulty. It’s implied that anyone that’s stronger than or scales to 13 year old Baki skill wise is able to deal with instinctive reactions fairly easily In fact, what DB considers a godly and divine technique in the form of UI that takes GoDs tens of millions of years of training and still can’t master and that a prodigy in Goku needed to die to use (in the anime)….is considered a low to mid tier skill in other series. And certain series like Kenichi have way better versions of UI, like Ryusui Seikuken which is beyond anything UI is capable of (so far) Ichigo from Bleach, Baki and several characters from the series, several Kengan characters, a handful of Kenichi disciple level characters, let alone experts and masters, pretty much every Marvel and DC ‘street tier’ martial artists etc
I disagree with this as it's displayed there's tiers to it, like Musashi's & Baki's Variation that worked on Yujiro and each other are clearly at a higher level than Gaia. So it's clearly effective within a relative range since it can be used against the top of the verse.
Goku's ui makes his moves more fine tuned as he fights. Goku can also automatically make his body sturdier as necessary. He can shift his vitals. His body can sense danger and decides how to dodge. Ui makes his body move on its own faster than his brain can process. Base goku was able to follow and perceive 2 people who are beyond ftl moving at instantaneous speeds with IT as they were fighting. Base goku was also able to predict and out predict hit who had ssb lvl stats, was skipping forward in time and vanishing while also concealing his movements. Ui is also a stat boost and evolves as goku fights. Making him hit sharper, faster and harder. Goku also mid fight while in ui got a speed boost. Goku can also get rage boosts while in ui. Goku can also use ui while unconscious. And goku was said to be at the bottom of the totem pole with ui mastery. Ui does a lot, is a impressive technique, and has crazy potential. Ui is more than just his body moving on its own without thought. Goku in ui when he moves and attacks can't be sensed and it was said that goku's attacks exploit openings.
@@speedbeyondlogic 1.) UI makes his moves more fine tuned That’s what being ‘in the zone’ does for anyone, even irl fighters, let alone fictional ones 2.) Goku can automatically make his body sturdier That’s not UI the technique, that’s UI (the transformation) being combined with Goku’s saiyan biology of getting stronger as battles go on. Not applicable in stats equal and not a UI skill. Same with shifting his vitals. That’s a Goku skill, not a UI skill 3.) His body can sense danger and decides how to dodge, UI makes his body move faster than his brain can process That’s what most users of Instinctive Reactions can do. Hence why it’s called instinctive reactions. Your body reacts on instinct 4.) Base Goku predicting beyond FTL speeds isn’t impressive when he’s been FTL since the Namek Saga. Who did he predict moving at instant speed? As for Hit, he wasn’t using his full ‘SSB level stats’ when fighting Base Goku as the same Hit forced Goku to use Blue Kaioken x10 and Goku still said Hit was stronger than him and he only lasted that long due to Hit not being able to use killing techniques. 5.) UI being a stat boost is only for Goku. To every other character like the Angels, Beerus etc, it’s a technique and not a stat boost. And it being a stat boost isn’t applicable in a stats equalized skill based fight Most of the other things you mentioned are stat boost stuff that doesn’t apply to stats equalized skill based fights. And ofc in stats based fights DB clears most verses I mentioned besides Bleach, Saint Seiya, Marvel and DC etc but this is comparing UI as a skill compared to other verses skills And again, saying something like UI allows Goku’s attacks to exploit openings again shows how basic of a skill UI is compared to other series outside of its stat boosts for Goku. Exploiting openings, aka counter attacking is a basic skill in martial arts in real life, let alone in fiction If you want one example of a named skill from a ‘weaker’ series that’s better than UI, look up the Ryusui Seikuken from History’s Strongest Disciple Kenichi. That move is considered advanced….for a disciple level martial artist. The strongest Disciples are weaker than the weakest Experts, and the strongest Experts are weaker than the weakest Masters. Then within Masters they have their own hierarchy of strength and skill
@@jocoolshow ui for goku is not just the body moving on its own without thought. That's my point. Roshi showed something similar to the body moving on its own against jiren and that pales in comparison to ui. Also what base goku did against hit is impressive and so is what base goku was able to do watching gas and granola having a IT fight. And in those instances that was a non ui goku. Goku could process instantaneous movement and out predict a time skipper who had a massive stat advantage, was vanishing all while being undetected without having ui. With ui goku's body moves faster than his brain can process. Ui in goku's hands is far superior and more impressive than the standard body moving on its own thing. Vital shifting and goku's body becoming automatically sturdier as necessary to the point where moro broke his arm and wrist trying to impale him are benefits of ui. Then there's the fine tuning moves and exploiting openings aspect of ui. Which would be beneficial in a equal stats fight.
@@speedbeyondlogic UI for Goku is the body moving on its own *and* a transformation with an insane power boost. And the latter doesn’t apply in stats equal. And you’re wrong about the Roshi point. Beerus, someone who’s more well versed in UI than every other GoD that participated in the battle royal thought that Roshi was using UI. For Beerus, the Angels etc, UI is a technique, not a form. It’s only considered a form for Goku. That’s why Goku using UI in base and his SS forms is different from Omen and MUI. What Base Goku did vs Hit is impressive, but not as much as you’re making it out to be. Hit wasn’t using the same stats/power output he used when he beat SSB Vegeta against Goku. That’s evidenced by Goku surviving his blows and reacting to him in Base when he and Vegeta are equals. And more evidence is that when Goku went SSB and Hit started trying more, he overcame even SSB Goku’s predictions. And you’re trying to really wank Goku with the ‘tracking Instantaneous Movement’ thing. Unless it’s explicitly shown that they can react during the timeframe of Instantaneous Movement like Goku and Cooler in the Meta Cooler movie or Baby Vegeta in GT attacking Kibito Kai in the middle of IM, Goku in the Super Manga would be reacting to them the moment they re-appeared from IM, not during the literal instant moment Anybody with instinctive reactions moves faster than their brain can process and without thinking, that’s the entire premise of instinctive reactions. Vital shifting isn’t a UI skill, that’s a Goku skill, and his body getting sturdier isn’t a UI skill, it’s a Saiyan biological trait You’re trying to assigns skills that Goku has on his own to UI to make UI seem better than it is. And exploiting openings in stats equal doesn’t add any benefit. That’s literally just called counter attacking 💀
Couple things. First the prowess needed to perform ki attacks is somewhat redconned later in Z when basically every one including people like Freezas grunts can use them so I would argue its more a power than a skill feat. I would also argue that this setting favors Youjiro way to heavily cause he can basically fight at his best while Goku looses the arguably biggest part of his arsenal. I think the fact that Goku isn't used to fighting without Ki would net Yujiro the win since he knows way better how to destroy a normal non enhanced Body while Goku always goes to fatigue the opponent first before going in for the kill. Since the are so equal in ability I see Yujiro going for a oneshot way earlier like blinding him, slicing his tendons or crushing his throat which would spell defeat for Goku.
You literally have no clue what you are talking about..the fact you think ki was retconned is stupid it was explained certain creatures or aliens have an innate biology that allows them to use genki easier that translating into ki where as others are not predisposed to that benefit..now saiyans do appear to have a predominance over humans..but pretending as if ki use equates to power is ridiculous.
To be fair, Frieza force soldiers are planetary plunderers and Frieza has some of the best connections in the universe, so it could be a case of Frieza hiring someone to train the soldiers in the usage of ki.
Nobody ever heard of a series being powercrept? Just because Goku is multiversal doesn't make friezas soldiers weak. And to answer your question Uub. A being that is essentially destined to be OP can't use ki without some sort of formal training.
@@tcole2475 That is a good point. remember though that he was reincarnated as a human. Also I never claimed people such as Freezas grunts as being weak just that I doupt all of them a genius lvl fighters. U need some skill to use Ki for sure but that wasn't the argument. The argument was that u need to be a super genius to do it and while that could be the case I rather beliefe it has something to do with inherent strength and biology. Even Saiyan kids and siberman can use it without problem. So what is more likely every single one of them being a genius far above Roshi which isn't the case since we see him beating people way, way stronger than him with pure skill or that usage of Ki gets just way more easy to learn or is even inherent to beings of a certain powerlvl?
@@Mope333 Yujiro literally bullies Goku like he's a child if stats are equalized. This match up is just dumb, the only reason they're even comparing them in terms of martial arts is cause of statements about Goku being a good martial artist, but DB Verse
@dizzyb2309 so it can't be copied but it can be learned if you have the basics which is how goku got the form so learning as skill is basically copying it based on someone else's already doing it so why was Moro un able to as is sounds like it can asking cuz I didn't read that arc
@@blankblank6214Not exactly. UI is something more of divine intervention than just a technique you stubble on. Best case is Roshi but even he is immortal and martial arts genius and Vegeta couldn’t even learn it.
@@blankblank6214Moro used more of an incomplete version of Ultra Instinct more turned to Merus than Goku so he didn’t have full use or understanding, Think of it more as Angels having the Natural nature of UI.
You can't copy it How would he able to copy, a sense he doesn't have or see Or a style Ui is a technique, when goku uses it He can dodge danger, it breaks the future sight, or Time manipulation abilities Because Ui Dodges the danger itself Roshi could use it for short time period He was stated to be God of Martial arts on earth He's over 300 years old
In dragonball flying and ki blast and controlling ki are all apart of martial arts. 😂 to take that away from goku is to take away his core martial arts abilities. Also in the original dragonball grandpa gohan already mastered all martial arts. And roshi beat a 30th degree black belt in kenpo. This is why goku has to train with gods and angels to even improve at this point. And its not just his power hes improving but his skill to. Its one and the same. Goku has 1000 of years worth of experience in fighting due to training with kais, has beaten guys millions of years old and mastered techniques they couldnt even master.😂 Even if you take away his ki, he still has mastered all human martial arts, mastered demon and god and angel martial arts, has 1,000 of years of experience and beaten guys with millions of years of experience. 😂 and this says nothing of his hax in the martial arts, which you barely touched on. Goku one shots this human. Who does not have 1,000s of years of experience or has fought guys millions of years old. 😂 its not even debatable even with a ludacris amounts of nerf to goku.
Some additional notes on Goku's end that weren't brought is that he is a master of all forms of martial arts, with Dragon Ball Z's official volumes Goku is literally introduced as "The greatest martial artist the world has ever known." Meaning Goku's upscales from Grandpa Gohan who was viewed as an expert for every Martial Art there is and at the time had no equal in skill. Roshi who easily humiliated Man Wolf who was a 30th degree black belt in kenpo along with Roshi and Korin being viewed as gods of Martial Arts in the Dragon Ball Universe that Goku had long surpassed.
I have the feeling that outside of UI, Yujiro is one of the very few characters that Goku would lose to more than once in an equal stats, martial arts only fight. They would be incredibly close fights though, and I doubt he would lose twice in a row. This is just a take based off of the choreography and plot of both series.
Sorry, goku might not be more talented, i think he is, he definitely has more skill in martial arts, he has 10s of thousands of years worth of training (on a low ball). With him. 158 days with king kai is stated to be worth thousands of years of martial arts training compared to earth. No powers on both sides just their knowledge. Goku would kill em
I'm not sure why so many people think that Goku is like some master martial artist. He is a master at fighting, but not really martial arts. Even way back in "Dragon Ball", which was arguably much more martial arts focused, at the first tournament, he and Krillin were very concerned because Roshi literally didn't teach them any martial arts before heading to the tournament. It wasn't their skill that made them dominate the competition, but rather just the fact that they were absurdly more powerful than everybody else. Going forward, Goku's next big leap in power came from Korin's training, which just taught him how to read his opponents and become faster and have greater endurance, all attributes that make him a great fighter, but they aren't martial arts. And the same thing rings true for basically every one of his masters that he has and every leap in power that he gets.
Goku gets destroyed by many characters from Baki if it's equal stats. Yujiro wouldn't even take him seriously. DB fans just rank Goku high cause of statements about him being a really good martial artist, but DB verse martial arts
Whats up TG! And man people be really downplaying goku marrial arts when i see posts talking about equal stats straight hands. Like goku a MASTER of martial arts to the point where his body can react on his own but somehow mfs swear he doesnt have hands
People don't doubt it. It's just baki has been about Martial arts the entire show and has always had them creating new ones or perfecting ones. Dragon ball has kinda lost its martial arts element that was in the first series people always bring up "Goku has fought such a wide variety like gods and demons" but all those people have never had unique fighting styles the only one that has was Buu and he basically destroyed everyone because of it
7:48 You are absolutely wrong at this point. It took Kaku Kayo 100 years to master Shaori, and this technique is far from a "basic martial art". Even if this is not taken into account, these points are still not comparable. Yujiro learned the technique to the level of a master, it's the same as if Goku immediately learned kamehameha to Roshi's level.
A) Baki says Yujiro actually may have known Shaori so there is a chance he didn’t copy it from Kaku Kaioh B) Why does that change anything about Ki attacks scaling above pretty much all Martial Arts in difficulty idk how you arbitrarily decided Xiao Lee is more difficult than Ki attacks to fundamentally learn
@@ThunderGodTG Yujiro copied the technique at that moment. Yujiro didn’t know how it worked initially, which is proven by his words “I knew it!” When Kaku used his technique to attack. I didn't say that this technique was more difficult than ki techniques, I just said that it took Kaku longer to learn this technique than Roshi's Kamehameha. We don't know which is more difficult to study. And we don't know if Goku can copy regular techniques at the same speed, they're just different things.
@@TheUnknownneesses Roshi's kamehameha has nothing to do with martial arts. It's other kind of skill. What actual hand to hand technique did Shaori, did Goku learn. It's all just statements about him being a good martial artist but DB
It’s lot of good ones out there an interesting one would be hibari from Hitman reborn his hand to hand combat is elite especially the future version of himself
Nah, imma be honest Goku absolutely demolishes. Goku as a child while immensely holding back was oneshotting the worlds best martial artists..artists that would scale highly in Baki verse. He mastered a technique that even gods with 75 million years could not achieve..he did this in 40 mins..Baki just over explains more in series but his feats are actually not nearly as impressive kid Goku after Kami training realistically slams. Bro had trained with gods and angels and I promise you anything whis teaches will be exponentially more refined than shit a bunch of dumb ass humans invent…you all remember when Baki was imagine training against Mike Tyson…well just know kid goku would sleep iron mike in 0 seconds..that’s all you need to know about the difference..and yes ik that was an earlier Baki…but I am also talking about crotch spawn version of goku.
You’re right, just in the first few pages of the manga an untrained 12 year old gokus throws cars after getting shot in the head. Then he scales so much higher as an adult
It's clearly the opposite. DB has nothing on Baki in terms of martial arts. You can say "he's better than godly beings with 75 million years of experience" but the argument that they're gods and Bakiverse are all humans so their martial arts is obviously inferior is really bad. They're completely different verses. Bakiverse is all about martial arts. Goku has almost no good martial arts showings in a fight compared to Bakiverse. Compared to Baki he just powers through his opponents cause of stats. Yujiro knows all martial arts of Bakiverse and can learn any technique by just observing. Goku with equal stats isn't even an opponent for him.
So we all just going to ignore goku know every martial arts fighting style in the world, and some that don't even exist in real life? Also goku is train by gods. One would think Gods training is a lot better than any human martial arts.
Idea I need from you, Konaha vs the other 4 great nations. All time teams tho , konaha get ( hashirama, madara, itachi, orochimaru ect ) vs the rest of the the villages with there all time squads
Me personally i don't agree with what he's saying, but I understand where he's coming from. The thing is that martial arts in dragon ball scales way above any other regular martial arts that we know of including the famous kempo at the 30th degree,but one thing people don't understand is that almost everything in dragon ball is considered martial arts from the Kamehameha to other weird supernatural skills and technique, that's dragon ball's martial arts so you can't simply compare. And one more raising your ki to surpass your opponent is regular form of martial arts as well I'm just like the kaiyoken as goku said it also improves he's technique and all his fighting skills. So to put it short everything in dragon that deals with fighting except magic is a high level of martial arts they just don't appairant and put so much emphasis like other anime do . That's why all you see is punch punch kick kick and ki blast. So i feel like it's more of the studios fault for that
U didnt mention something important in an equal stats fight yujiro will have size and weight and range advantage though goku is adapted to fighting bigger folks of similar fighting skills to him but still an advantage is an advantage
Since martial arts evolve over time and goku has trained with guys with hindreds to thousands to millions to even guys from other time or time lines , goku has literally replicate people moved , decifer weaknesses in people's moves or create a new fighting style mid fight , goku travelled tge world abd fought , learned all types of martial artists seen . Well goku got more martial arts experience in martial arts than yujiro .
6:15 YES IT DOES, but every Versus Channel one, just give this to the Baki verse because is the ONLY thing they have, but if you be really honest, Yujiro is the High School of Martial art and Goku on the Post PHD , and to be even worse, goku learn's even FASTER, so not even the "Yujiro can Adapt" is enough, the Guy could adapt to fight against someone that jump time to fight, in seconds, Yujiro is amazing, but he is just a Medium fish in a really small drop of water
Yujiro has some bs when it comes to reading an opponent and instantly being able to copy their skills and moves. I would fear he may actually be able to instantly grasp chi.
I'm picking Yujiro cause he's more pure martial arts and skill. I've grown up watching all DB til DBS. Goku has incredible martial arts but leans more towards power. Plus DBS is more power focused, there's some skills. It's just we don't get enough explanation.😊
Goku mastering martial arts to the point where his body can literally react on its own ends this debate. That’s the absolute pinnacle of martial arts technique
U forgot to take into account one thing experience goku while training with king kai king kai said a year training with him is like 1000 years worth of training and goku trainee with him for 7 years so that's like 7000 years worth of training a gap of experience way too big for yujiro to close amd goku was relative to someone who has million of years of experience aka beerus who trains with an angel it's no competition
I don't even need to read the comments to know this video is going to be about TG glazing Yujiro because his 'martial arts' are more 'realistic'. Thia despite damn near 90% of his shit either being biologically impossible for IRL humans or otherwise relying on him being supernaturally strong and fast. The one real fight we saw him getting pressed in, against Doppo, he pretty much immediately went for Demon Back once he realized he couldn't match Doppo's technique. Meanwhile it'll be denying Goku pretty much his entire arsenal (most of which Yujiro has no answer for) because the martial arts in his world are too 'magical' in nature. All while ignoring that Goku has far more experience fighting people stronger than or equal to himself (Yujiro has none, given even Baki wasn't really his match), and more experience fighting through crippling pain and injuries (Yujiro has none, given we've never seen him get seriously injured). The reality is, this is a schoolyard bully whose superhumanly good at martial arts (Yujiro) vs a genuine, bonafide hero-warrior who is also superhumanly good at martial arts (Goku). Anyone who really knows the characters gives it to Goku high-to-extreme diff (cuz' Yujiro really is that good, he just lacks the heart to gut out a win against a true peer because he has never been challenged his whole life).
Lmao bro just didn’t watch the vid and assumed idk how tf you came up with that goofy ass argument either with the martial arts being more “realistic” or when I’ve ever said that. Watch the vid next time goofball instead of commenting a hypothetical cap session
*Deletes comment saying Equal Stats right* No but seriously you also have to remove Ultra Instinct, Telekinesis, Teleportation, & Hakai away for this to be fair.
That I think you’d have remove some of Baki’s one shot techniques aswell. Am I right? And I think it’s fair to Grant ultra instinct, considering it’s buildup and how would the word be prevalent? Goku’s instincts have been in his martial arts journey and how they’ve always hinted at something greater it feels like a big part of the character in the combination of his journey so to say he cannot use the technique just feels wrong to me. Maybe let’s not include completely ki based techniques like things like hakai. Embarrassed to admit, I only made the assumption the telekinesis comes from ki. If that assumption is correct I’d be OK with removing moving that as well. And then I don’t have strong feelings on teleportation. I really need to be more aware of Baki’s arsenal. Trying my best not to be biased to Goku because 😳 ☺️ ❤. No homo
Goku just wins. He literally is a walking sharingan and has seen more and trained more than anyone more than thr Baki verse. They wouldn't even know how to deal with his BS technique.
@@devilslayer3548 at least give me a character who can actually wash goku with the hands and feet including people in gokus own franchise, to assume that. You out here assuming fanboy for Yujiro????? What kind of fanboy does that?
Yujiro and it's not even close. He can perfectly mimic any technique he sees even once with no effort and has way more knowledge and skill of multiple martial arts styles, granted Goku is almost that good at picking up techniques but his hand to hand arsenal is still very limited compared to yujiro's.
Goku can also seemingly mimic extremely difficult techniques after seeing them once... And I'd argue Goku is very close to Yujiro when it comes to striking, but Yujiro seems to have more versatility in all aspects of Martial arts and even just general fighting in terms of grappling, and hell, bro knows how to use his teeth as lethal weapons..
@@Dark_Jarlgrandpa hogan not Jackie chun. Super is inconsistent as hell though. Goku didn’t know what meditation was and mocked vegeta for doing it when he has trained that way multiple times.
@@Aarforce1 feel like that’s just the writers highlighting how much goku has strayed from martial arts cause of how physically stronger his opponents have become that was one of whis’s points in super and pretty much the whole premise of the show
@@Dark_Jarl forgetting a concept like meditation is pretty wild and a stretch to attribute that to straying from martial arts. Dragon ball doesn’t have the best consistency in most aspects. Super Goku is close to a completely different character from z Goku.
@@Aarforce1 your thinking about it from a fighters standpoint when you should be thinking like a writer Akira isn’t a knowledgeable guy on martial arts he’s just a writer
If master roshi was the greatest martial artist on earth. TECHNICALLY that would make him in the same boat as Yujiro. Goku was taught by Gods, that aren’t of Earth, aliens that aren’t of Earth. Goku may not learn from Crickets and praying mantis but Yujiros martial arts is limited to Earth while gokus isn’t
Gentlman i appriciate the Goku glaze. But martial arts in DBZ are focused on ki and raw power increase If the stats are even Yujiro has several hand to hand counters like Shao Le and Aiki Without flying super powers and lasers Goku might as well could be fighting blind His training is diffrent and his focus as a person is non existant Bro is just strong and agile Yujiro is ahead of him in martial arts because energy control and body control are diffrent on so many levels its almost funny Every feet Goku has is raw strenght raw durability or raw speed His martial arts are just a reference to old kung fu movies And no Ultra instict does not count thats a power up he should have had since he was 20 Moving without thinking is not impressive at a high lvl of fighting Goku started the martial arts hype in anime i get it but his fights are way to simple and reliant on power Yujiro murders
Yujiro will win , he have extremely high iq , he can create new techniques on the fly , Goku is really dumb. Most of the time , he won on earth because he is a Saiyan. He is just built different not cuz of his skills . And when he can't , he gets saved by plot armor bs like sssj 50x multipleier out of no where
Before I even watch this video Goku is a student to multiple characters roshi, korin, Mr.Popo, Kami, north Kai, and whis. A mf angel that have every knowledge in universe 7. There no way u can compare a Mr. Satan mf to a saiyan that was train by some of the strongest humans, god, and angels. 😂
Goku no contest, hes doing actual martial arts, while Yuji just does bs like using a human for nunchacks? that aint martial arts bro, thats just ragdollin'... i love Baki series but when it comes to martial arts, its kinda bs, since im a martial artist myself, i can tell from experience. Love your vids always thou
Goku and hanma have mastered everything on earth. However, Goku has learned martial arts from gods, he’s learned techniques that hanma simply could never hope to learn. Goku stops literally anyone in hand to hand combat. Also the last thing that isn’t being mentioned is speed, power and durability. Goku naturally without powering up scales FAR above hanma.
When the daishenshu says Goku had mastered every martial arts on earth, and then you see him train with gods. 0.0 I call bullshit Goku literally know everything
Yujiro gonna pull some BS technique he learned from a cockroach 🪳 or a grasshopper technique 😭🙏🙏
Nah Goku destroys
@@itsm9818Cope. Yujiro copies mantis shrimp and punches Goku into oblivion.
@@mumenrider1908 spoken like a true one punch man fan. I bet you think Saitama can beat Goku too
@itsm9818 Bruh, look at his profile picture. Of course he does, lmao 😂
@@mumenrider1908 This is pure glaze 🤡☠
Keep in mind that the level of martial arts mastery Goku has would not only scale above the 30th degree black in kenpo, man-wolf. Also Goku's training under King Kai would literally put him centuries ahead of someone like Yujiro.
Go watch the Piccolo Jr Goku fight at thr end of Dragonball. Goku beats Piccolo mostly using Martial Arts while Piccolo using the full versatiliry of the verses powrr system. At most, Goku countered a beam from Piccolo and used the foot Kamehameha to catch a flying Piccolo. Goku is able to beat characters using the full kit his verse offers with mostly.pure martial arts.
Thank god for Dragonball, it really highlights how much of a pure martisl arts prodigy Goku is. Goku was doing what Yuchiro was in terns of fighting entire armies and gigantic animals as a child as well.
Except Goku literally wins the fight using DBZ’s power system 💀
I think the one attribute that did not get discussed but would be incredibly relevant in a battle of attrition like this. Would be each character's pain tolerance and ability to fight through injuries. Because that might prove more critical in a fight like this than being able to switch fighting styles or use new techniques on the fly.
Saiyan natural durability is quite unfair TBH they can handle some serious pain, especially vegeta. As well as do some weird things with their body like moving their pressure points, like what Goku did in the Granola arc.🤷🏾♀
@@genorem Vegeta is alright, Goku fought while having a hole in his shoulder bleeding out and won
@odd-eyes6363 oof I forgot about that one, goku ain't got no chill.
Found this on my recommendation on watch the whole vid I found it entertaining. However what kills me is how unfair you scale Goku and Yujiro. You scale Yujiro to Baki in terms of skill level the problem with this is that Yujiro himself has never proven to be as skill as Baki at all through the whole series( I read Baki twice). I remember when Yujiro fought Doppo for the first time it was skill like fight within the beginning of the fight once it got one sided Yujiro basically concede since Doppo had him sweating and use the Demon back to finish him off which was basically Strength>Skill.(Remind you Yujiro we still stronger than Doppo in base form yet still need stats to win)Baki has already proven he can beat opponents stronger than him like Pickle and even use marital arts to keep up with his father in their final fight. Unlike Yujiro, Goku at least tries to utilize skills and tactics against stronger opponents which was Hit, Caulifa, Granola which you showcase in your own video. Now onto adaptability, martial arts, experience. You also claim that Yujiro can adapt to any martial arts that Goku has which could be true to an extent. Has Yujiro ever shown to adapt to Kiai fist or soaring Fist which
accumulate multiple’s shockwave punches? Has he ever adapt to afterimage cloning technique on which Goku used against Whis? You agree that Goku could adapt to Yujiro but it would just take longer because he has more techniques but the problem with this is Yujiro himself. Yujiro doesn’t even depend on martial arts only times he uses martial arts if it’s only a demonstration through out the series so that’s not fair at all. You kept using Motobe statement as a vaild point. In which he hasn’t proven at all. He does seems like have high knowledge on the martial arts that have been demonstrated through out series but utilizing them in action(Like Cell)? I think not. I’m not sure you if you have cover experience but Goku should definitely have a point in experience due to his training with King Kai back. Training with King Kai equates to 1000 years of experience which could be a point to Goku. Also the 0.5 thing is nothing but just prediction Baki character can’t directly read brain signals. In chapter 33, page 9 it explains on how Musashi was just able to predict Baki attacks before he fully launches his attack. It’s basically Pre initiative if you read the Kengan series. However I think Goku predicting Hit timeskip is just that much better since he was outstat for a while. Unlike Yujiro he’s always depends on stats as usual. Also Ultra Instinct I agree I don’t think Yujiro has anything to counter at all.
no offense, ok maybe a little, but i stopped reading after you said we never heard yujiro is more skilled than baki
You cant be serious its stated the whole series yujiro is the most powerful and skilled fighter in all of history even being more skillfull than all warriors in the past the moment you said not once yujiro displayed better skill than baki ik some was wrong, he only uses martial arts when he needs to bc he is physically above everyone in the verse. He is prob above even pickle now
@@nicksmh3565 He was above Pickle before too lol. You could argue that Pickle was physically stronger than base Yujiro, but Demon Back Yujiro >> Physically.
Currently base Yujiro most probably >> Pickle physically
This is the issue with people when they scale martial arts in baki are superior because the show baki is about explaining everything. This is not a point . Plus, Goku has travelled across the world and has fought , met or seen everything including aliens and demons fighting styles , gods and angels his pull of skills is getting down played especially as we know martial arts evolves over time and Goku opponent and masters have too much experience that yujiro doesn't have
Exactly!!!
I’m pretty sure he literally covers this and explains that a lot of those instances aren’t dependent on skill, but more power ups. And even regardless of all of Goku skills and techniques, he saying that Baki would win the battle of nutrition when it comes to them just full on adapting to each other moves back-and-forth. Because Bucky has a more wide pool of techniques to draw from putting Goku in a tougher position when it comes to adapting then try new things to see what works. And then baki one shot techniques give him way more wind conditions. As the number one Goku meat rider I can’t be this bias. He makes a good point.
Ultra instinct stomps, though not close. And I have arguments for a why, consider UI to be a technique more than a form at the bare minimum that needs the form to be perfected.
Sorry for any typos speaking into the mic rather than typing it out so I’m sure it got some things messed up. I can already tell.
Did you even watch the video? He literally explains this like half way through. Either way you just explained a nothing point that doesn't actually have any tangible evidence. "He fights aliens and gets arbitrary experience" okay how can we use that? Well we can't because most of those instances are dependent on Goku growing in power rather than martial arts. Plus Yujiro can copy styles that don't exist after only seeing them once.
Goku rider
Nothing new
Interms of skill people who think its a fight dont know gokus martial arts, every fodder fighter in the 21st budokai back in dragonball is dozens of times more skilled than anyone in irl history and goku surpassed all of them at 12 years old. Since its a ufc fight with equal stats kid goku is just more skilled than adult yujiro
Goku is a master in wushu, not directly said but shown in his bodymovements, he also uses karate at times and a handful of times has used wrestling techniques
Yeah, but to be fair, he beat them all because of his insane power and speed.
His skill didn’t become much of a factor until the second world martial arts tournament.
@@___________0Z0X witch he did at like 13 14 years old
@@orianson1689 Yup
This is a conversation of skill goku stopped focusing on martial arts skills after vegeta cause he saw that no matter how good of a fight he can’t compete unless his power lvl gets higher yuijiro is in another league
I would agree. Stats equal and no ki manipulation, well Goku has more experience, Yujiro has shown a bigger martial arts move pool, giving him an edge since Goku could be caught off guard the first time a new skill he hasn't seen is used. And with both having adaptability that allows them to copy skills after seeing them once, I don't think either is winning solely on adaptability.
All that being said current Goku has one major advantage, and that is UI as a fighting style. We know as of Granola arc he can utilize UI's style in all his forms. Even if you exclude the transformation, he has it as a fighting style anyway which gives him the same hax as the transformation, which gives him superior agility and speed winning current Goku the battle.
Oh hey dude! Super cool to see you here! I also agree 100% it’s just harder to guage to less accurate variations of UI used in Goku’s transformations as it gets increasingly more accurate with each subsequent transformation, a minor variation in base would def be threatening to Yujiro as we saw Goku apply in his training with Whis.
Dragon Ball was never a "martial arts only" focused manga and that's the problem when trying to scale it with actual martial arts centered mangas like Baki. DB had elements of martial arts sprinkled in the story here and there but for the most part it does whatever it wants. This is a manga that has martial arts, magic, aliens, demons, gods, cyborgs etc and all others kinds of mysticism Strictly boiling it down to its martial arts elements severly downplays and limits the other aspects of what's actually possible in that universe. Especially when compared to Baki who's in universe craziness is attemped to be grounded in the realm of "exaggerated realism" hence the narrator using real world situations to explain the craziness
1:02 for someone who just finished shin budokai 2, i respect the background music choice
Technically ki blasts and flight are a type of martial arts considered valid even for hand to hand.
There is an in-universe question and answer column in one of the guidebooks (I think the Daizenshuu? I forget) that insinuates the Turtle Hermit knows most styles on Earth, I believe, for what that is worth. Arguably a moot point as Goku did not even actually learn real martial arts under him. Jackie Chun easily defeated a thirtieth level Kenpō black belt, which is a level that literally does not even exist.
I would say the Kaiōken counts more as a technique rather than a transformation/genetic ability like the demon back so could be considered fair-game, which alongside Instinct Mastery would tip the scales further in Goku's favour.
Was NOT expecting you on this type of video lmao
No real knowledge on Baki, but knowledgeable enough on Dragon Ball.
I can def tell off the comment
Im sorry but i have to tell you that: ki technique=/= martial art prowess (idk if this is the right spelling english isnt my Mother language) but also does show you why db isnt good in the martial arts department as it does sound, the reason is because even with that (even when it doesnt count as h2h and is a part of his powers because ki is easier to use being an alien and other factors that depend on strenght) goku's style and fighting strategy is still highly flawed, for example he doesnt have a answer to grappling taking into account equal conditions of physical capabilities, every time that Goku is grabbed through the series he is shut down and need to power through, and every time that grappling fails is because his opponent is inexpert (a brawler like recoome, or a ginyu Who we see that he is heavily carried by his power level) or simply weaker than him even taking into account that flying is punishing heavily the wrestling/grappling part because you cant anchor a flying Guy in the air, other moments that he escapes using his techniques is on Filler arcs/non canon material😢
Other part Of Goku's strategy taking into account real martial arts is that his style does consist mainly in telegraphed heavy blows, leaving spaces to be exploited that arent because superspeed, even in ui a precise enough blow would be enough to pass it, same goes with speed (even when he is not blitzed) and abilities that wouldnt activate the reflex on the ultra instinct (like jin mori recoiless, style that doesnt telegraph ANY strike independent of from when and how is shot and allow him to fight stronger opponents, he even could fight dean, Who was copying his style and was seeing the future while he had a special amor and still could not counter him) and others like abilities that shut down his detecting sense or could Just ignore it
This leads to his adaptability in combat, when a fight does not go Goku's way he does use his technique and stop relying on power... Until he can, we can see that in various parts of ANY db series, when he doesnt power through he lost (against cell, against black, against jiren, against piccolo daimao in his first encounter, against tien, and etc) and i can go on and on
Goku is a great fighter and a good martial artist, but he does rely on his powers and experience difference against his enemies, we have better h2h fighters in manga/other media
Ki manipulation is a part of martial arts. Bukijutsu is the signature of the Crane-school, for example. Popo chastised Goku for relying too much on his senses and not on sensing via ki. Et cetera.
17:23 Nah, this actually isn’t true. A 13 year old Baki used literal instinctive reactions and moving on his own without his brain or mind thinking first…and Gaia was able to somewhat fight back against this. Then Yujiro went on to completely destroy Gaia and this version of Baki, as well as stronger versions of Baki with 0 difficulty. It’s implied that anyone that’s stronger than or scales to 13 year old Baki skill wise is able to deal with instinctive reactions fairly easily
In fact, what DB considers a godly and divine technique in the form of UI that takes GoDs tens of millions of years of training and still can’t master and that a prodigy in Goku needed to die to use (in the anime)….is considered a low to mid tier skill in other series. And certain series like Kenichi have way better versions of UI, like Ryusui Seikuken which is beyond anything UI is capable of (so far)
Ichigo from Bleach, Baki and several characters from the series, several Kengan characters, a handful of Kenichi disciple level characters, let alone experts and masters, pretty much every Marvel and DC ‘street tier’ martial artists etc
I disagree with this as it's displayed there's tiers to it, like Musashi's & Baki's Variation that worked on Yujiro and each other are clearly at a higher level than Gaia. So it's clearly effective within a relative range since it can be used against the top of the verse.
Goku's ui makes his moves more fine tuned as he fights. Goku can also automatically make his body sturdier as necessary. He can shift his vitals. His body can sense danger and decides how to dodge. Ui makes his body move on its own faster than his brain can process.
Base goku was able to follow and perceive 2 people who are beyond ftl moving at instantaneous speeds with IT as they were fighting. Base goku was also able to predict and out predict hit who had ssb lvl stats, was skipping forward in time and vanishing while also concealing his movements. Ui is also a stat boost and evolves as goku fights. Making him hit sharper, faster and harder. Goku also mid fight while in ui got a speed boost.
Goku can also get rage boosts while in ui. Goku can also use ui while unconscious. And goku was said to be at the bottom of the totem pole with ui mastery. Ui does a lot, is a impressive technique, and has crazy potential. Ui is more than just his body moving on its own without thought. Goku in ui when he moves and attacks can't be sensed and it was said that goku's attacks exploit openings.
@@speedbeyondlogic 1.) UI makes his moves more fine tuned
That’s what being ‘in the zone’ does for anyone, even irl fighters, let alone fictional ones
2.) Goku can automatically make his body sturdier
That’s not UI the technique, that’s UI (the transformation) being combined with Goku’s saiyan biology of getting stronger as battles go on. Not applicable in stats equal and not a UI skill. Same with shifting his vitals. That’s a Goku skill, not a UI skill
3.) His body can sense danger and decides how to dodge, UI makes his body move faster than his brain can process
That’s what most users of Instinctive Reactions can do. Hence why it’s called instinctive reactions. Your body reacts on instinct
4.) Base Goku predicting beyond FTL speeds isn’t impressive when he’s been FTL since the Namek Saga. Who did he predict moving at instant speed?
As for Hit, he wasn’t using his full ‘SSB level stats’ when fighting Base Goku as the same Hit forced Goku to use Blue Kaioken x10 and Goku still said Hit was stronger than him and he only lasted that long due to Hit not being able to use killing techniques.
5.) UI being a stat boost is only for Goku. To every other character like the Angels, Beerus etc, it’s a technique and not a stat boost. And it being a stat boost isn’t applicable in a stats equalized skill based fight
Most of the other things you mentioned are stat boost stuff that doesn’t apply to stats equalized skill based fights. And ofc in stats based fights DB clears most verses I mentioned besides Bleach, Saint Seiya, Marvel and DC etc but this is comparing UI as a skill compared to other verses skills
And again, saying something like UI allows Goku’s attacks to exploit openings again shows how basic of a skill UI is compared to other series outside of its stat boosts for Goku. Exploiting openings, aka counter attacking is a basic skill in martial arts in real life, let alone in fiction
If you want one example of a named skill from a ‘weaker’ series that’s better than UI, look up the Ryusui Seikuken from History’s Strongest Disciple Kenichi. That move is considered advanced….for a disciple level martial artist. The strongest Disciples are weaker than the weakest Experts, and the strongest Experts are weaker than the weakest Masters. Then within Masters they have their own hierarchy of strength and skill
@@jocoolshow ui for goku is not just the body moving on its own without thought. That's my point. Roshi showed something similar to the body moving on its own against jiren and that pales in comparison to ui. Also what base goku did against hit is impressive and so is what base goku was able to do watching gas and granola having a IT fight. And in those instances that was a non ui goku. Goku could process instantaneous movement and out predict a time skipper who had a massive stat advantage, was vanishing all while being undetected without having ui. With ui goku's body moves faster than his brain can process. Ui in goku's hands is far superior and more impressive than the standard body moving on its own thing. Vital shifting and goku's body becoming automatically sturdier as necessary to the point where moro broke his arm and wrist trying to impale him are benefits of ui. Then there's the fine tuning moves and exploiting openings aspect of ui. Which would be beneficial in a equal stats fight.
@@speedbeyondlogic UI for Goku is the body moving on its own *and* a transformation with an insane power boost. And the latter doesn’t apply in stats equal.
And you’re wrong about the Roshi point. Beerus, someone who’s more well versed in UI than every other GoD that participated in the battle royal thought that Roshi was using UI. For Beerus, the Angels etc, UI is a technique, not a form. It’s only considered a form for Goku. That’s why Goku using UI in base and his SS forms is different from Omen and MUI.
What Base Goku did vs Hit is impressive, but not as much as you’re making it out to be. Hit wasn’t using the same stats/power output he used when he beat SSB Vegeta against Goku. That’s evidenced by Goku surviving his blows and reacting to him in Base when he and Vegeta are equals. And more evidence is that when Goku went SSB and Hit started trying more, he overcame even SSB Goku’s predictions.
And you’re trying to really wank Goku with the ‘tracking Instantaneous Movement’ thing. Unless it’s explicitly shown that they can react during the timeframe of Instantaneous Movement like Goku and Cooler in the Meta Cooler movie or Baby Vegeta in GT attacking Kibito Kai in the middle of IM, Goku in the Super Manga would be reacting to them the moment they re-appeared from IM, not during the literal instant moment
Anybody with instinctive reactions moves faster than their brain can process and without thinking, that’s the entire premise of instinctive reactions.
Vital shifting isn’t a UI skill, that’s a Goku skill, and his body getting sturdier isn’t a UI skill, it’s a Saiyan biological trait
You’re trying to assigns skills that Goku has on his own to UI to make UI seem better than it is. And exploiting openings in stats equal doesn’t add any benefit. That’s literally just called counter attacking 💀
Goku has far too many techniques and has better combat prowess. This is a massive stomp. Goku buries him 6 meters deep.
Not really goku use the same moves unlike yujiro and know more martial arts than goku
Guys! The best Baki RUclipsr just uploaded!
Couple things. First the prowess needed to perform ki attacks is somewhat redconned later in Z when basically every one including people like Freezas grunts can use them so I would argue its more a power than a skill feat.
I would also argue that this setting favors Youjiro way to heavily cause he can basically fight at his best while Goku looses the arguably biggest part of his arsenal. I think the fact that Goku isn't used to fighting without Ki would net Yujiro the win since he knows way better how to destroy a normal non enhanced Body while Goku always goes to fatigue the opponent first before going in for the kill.
Since the are so equal in ability I see Yujiro going for a oneshot way earlier like blinding him, slicing his tendons or crushing his throat which would spell defeat for Goku.
You literally have no clue what you are talking about..the fact you think ki was retconned is stupid it was explained certain creatures or aliens have an innate biology that allows them to use genki easier that translating into ki where as others are not predisposed to that benefit..now saiyans do appear to have a predominance over humans..but pretending as if ki use equates to power is ridiculous.
@@dakotabender1747 Certain creatures for sure. But name one fighter intoduced from the beginning of z, besides humans, who can't use it.
To be fair, Frieza force soldiers are planetary plunderers and Frieza has some of the best connections in the universe, so it could be a case of Frieza hiring someone to train the soldiers in the usage of ki.
Nobody ever heard of a series being powercrept? Just because Goku is multiversal doesn't make friezas soldiers weak. And to answer your question Uub. A being that is essentially destined to be OP can't use ki without some sort of formal training.
@@tcole2475 That is a good point. remember though that he was reincarnated as a human. Also I never claimed people such as Freezas grunts as being weak just that I doupt all of them a genius lvl fighters.
U need some skill to use Ki for sure but that wasn't the argument. The argument was that u need to be a super genius to do it and while that could be the case I rather beliefe it has something to do with inherent strength and biology. Even Saiyan kids and siberman can use it without problem.
So what is more likely every single one of them being a genius far above Roshi which isn't the case since we see him beating people way, way stronger than him with pure skill or that usage of Ki gets just way more easy to learn or is even inherent to beings of a certain powerlvl?
I legitimately don't know who will win here. I am leaning towards Yujiro, but Goku’s martial arts aptitude is insane.
lol bozo, you just haven’t watched db
@@geralddawizard767 lol bozo, you just haven't watched dragon Ball.
@@geralddawizard767everyone has watched dragon ball
@@geralddawizard767😂 just because he’s a “alien” doesn’t mean he’s always stronger
@@Mope333 Yujiro literally bullies Goku like he's a child if stats are equalized. This match up is just dumb, the only reason they're even comparing them in terms of martial arts is cause of statements about Goku being a good martial artist, but DB Verse
DB and Baki in one vid? Must be my lucky day!
Pretty sure baki learned instinctual fighting the basic premise of ui against Gaia so yugiro could probably copy it as its not a race specific form
Moro already tried that. You can’t copy UI.
@dizzyb2309 so it can't be copied but it can be learned if you have the basics which is how goku got the form so learning as skill is basically copying it based on someone else's already doing it so why was Moro un able to as is sounds like it can asking cuz I didn't read that arc
@@blankblank6214Not exactly. UI is something more of divine intervention than just a technique you stubble on. Best case is Roshi but even he is immortal and martial arts genius and Vegeta couldn’t even learn it.
@@blankblank6214Moro used more of an incomplete version of Ultra Instinct more turned to Merus than Goku so he didn’t have full use or understanding, Think of it more as Angels having the Natural nature of UI.
You can't copy it
How would he able to copy, a sense he doesn't have or see
Or a style
Ui is a technique, when goku uses it
He can dodge danger, it breaks the future sight, or Time manipulation abilities
Because Ui Dodges the danger itself
Roshi could use it for short time period
He was stated to be God of Martial arts on earth
He's over 300 years old
In dragonball flying and ki blast and controlling ki are all apart of martial arts. 😂 to take that away from goku is to take away his core martial arts abilities.
Also in the original dragonball grandpa gohan already mastered all martial arts. And roshi beat a 30th degree black belt in kenpo.
This is why goku has to train with gods and angels to even improve at this point. And its not just his power hes improving but his skill to. Its one and the same.
Goku has 1000 of years worth of experience in fighting due to training with kais, has beaten guys millions of years old and mastered techniques they couldnt even master.😂
Even if you take away his ki, he still has mastered all human martial arts, mastered demon and god and angel martial arts, has 1,000 of years of experience and beaten guys with millions of years of experience. 😂 and this says nothing of his hax in the martial arts, which you barely touched on.
Goku one shots this human. Who does not have 1,000s of years of experience or has fought guys millions of years old. 😂 its not even debatable even with a ludacris amounts of nerf to goku.
Some additional notes on Goku's end that weren't brought is that he is a master of all forms of martial arts, with Dragon Ball Z's official volumes Goku is literally introduced as "The greatest martial artist the world has ever known."
Meaning Goku's upscales from Grandpa Gohan who was viewed as an expert for every Martial Art there is and at the time had no equal in skill. Roshi who easily humiliated Man Wolf who was a 30th degree black belt in kenpo along with Roshi and Korin being viewed as gods of Martial Arts in the Dragon Ball Universe that Goku had long surpassed.
I have the feeling that outside of UI, Yujiro is one of the very few characters that Goku would lose to more than once in an equal stats, martial arts only fight. They would be incredibly close fights though, and I doubt he would lose twice in a row. This is just a take based off of the choreography and plot of both series.
I think, in an extra panel in the physical manga there is a thing that says Roshi knows every martial arts on the planet as well.
---Grandpa WHO??? Goku??? 😂
If on purpose or not, that one got a giggle out of me...
My dawg dropps bangers ‼️🫡
I’m talking 0:30 banger
I’m back bro. I was just in the mood for zabuza and virhtue video popped up right underneath. Had to dip our homie I know you understand 🫡🤣
Love this video TG 🔥 keep it up brotha! Keep doing these versus battles!
Thor runs the otsutsuki gauntlet 🙏
by the way i just now found out about your channel dude and you still have a lot to learn little buddy
I get the feeling this fight would be incredible to watch if it was animated.
Sorry, goku might not be more talented, i think he is, he definitely has more skill in martial arts, he has 10s of thousands of years worth of training (on a low ball). With him. 158 days with king kai is stated to be worth thousands of years of martial arts training compared to earth. No powers on both sides just their knowledge. Goku would kill em
Another banger upload TG. Great work as usual
I'm not sure why so many people think that Goku is like some master martial artist.
He is a master at fighting, but not really martial arts.
Even way back in "Dragon Ball", which was arguably much more martial arts focused, at the first tournament, he and Krillin were very concerned because Roshi literally didn't teach them any martial arts before heading to the tournament. It wasn't their skill that made them dominate the competition, but rather just the fact that they were absurdly more powerful than everybody else.
Going forward, Goku's next big leap in power came from Korin's training, which just taught him how to read his opponents and become faster and have greater endurance, all attributes that make him a great fighter, but they aren't martial arts.
And the same thing rings true for basically every one of his masters that he has and every leap in power that he gets.
Goku gets destroyed by many characters from Baki if it's equal stats. Yujiro wouldn't even take him seriously. DB fans just rank Goku high cause of statements about him being a really good martial artist, but DB verse martial arts
I'd love to see Akuma vs Yujiro
Whats up TG! And man people be really downplaying goku marrial arts when i see posts talking about equal stats straight hands. Like goku a MASTER of martial arts to the point where his body can react on his own but somehow mfs swear he doesnt have hands
People don't doubt it. It's just baki has been about Martial arts the entire show and has always had them creating new ones or perfecting ones. Dragon ball has kinda lost its martial arts element that was in the first series people always bring up "Goku has fought such a wide variety like gods and demons" but all those people have never had unique fighting styles the only one that has was Buu and he basically destroyed everyone because of it
I do wonder how many people, despite all the disclaimers, will be like "What about UI/Kaioken/Solar Flare/etc."
Interesting take as always tho
I see Yujiro having a tough time against piccolo jnr saga but finally taking the win , but ☠️ with Goku in Raditz saga .
I was worried TG was gonna start having that Swagkage upload schedule.
Nah I’m def locked in this month really excited for the vids I have cooking
7:48 You are absolutely wrong at this point. It took Kaku Kayo 100 years to master Shaori, and this technique is far from a "basic martial art". Even if this is not taken into account, these points are still not comparable. Yujiro learned the technique to the level of a master, it's the same as if Goku immediately learned kamehameha to Roshi's level.
A) Baki says Yujiro actually may have known Shaori so there is a chance he didn’t copy it from Kaku Kaioh
B) Why does that change anything about Ki attacks scaling above pretty much all Martial Arts in difficulty idk how you arbitrarily decided Xiao Lee is more difficult than Ki attacks to fundamentally learn
@@ThunderGodTG Yujiro copied the technique at that moment. Yujiro didn’t know how it worked initially, which is proven by his words “I knew it!” When Kaku used his technique to attack. I didn't say that this technique was more difficult than ki techniques, I just said that it took Kaku longer to learn this technique than Roshi's Kamehameha. We don't know which is more difficult to study. And we don't know if Goku can copy regular techniques at the same speed, they're just different things.
@@TheUnknownneesses Roshi's kamehameha has nothing to do with martial arts. It's other kind of skill. What actual hand to hand technique did Shaori, did Goku learn. It's all just statements about him being a good martial artist but DB
The only time dragon ball z was truly about martial arts was dragon ball
It’s lot of good ones out there an interesting one would be hibari from
Hitman reborn his hand to hand combat is elite especially the future version of himself
Hitman Reborn is my favorite anime :)
@@bluntslt8023 hand to hand combat is underrated in that anime and manga
another banger
Nah, imma be honest Goku absolutely demolishes. Goku as a child while immensely holding back was oneshotting the worlds best martial artists..artists that would scale highly in Baki verse. He mastered a technique that even gods with 75 million years could not achieve..he did this in 40 mins..Baki just over explains more in series but his feats are actually not nearly as impressive kid Goku after Kami training realistically slams. Bro had trained with gods and angels and I promise you anything whis teaches will be exponentially more refined than shit a bunch of dumb ass humans invent…you all remember when Baki was imagine training against Mike Tyson…well just know kid goku would sleep iron mike in 0 seconds..that’s all you need to know about the difference..and yes ik that was an earlier Baki…but I am also talking about crotch spawn version of goku.
You’re right, just in the first few pages of the manga an untrained 12 year old gokus throws cars after getting shot in the head. Then he scales so much higher as an adult
@@brandonmerritt9001this is pure martial arts strength does not matter
Clearly you didn’t watch the video 😭
It's clearly the opposite. DB has nothing on Baki in terms of martial arts. You can say "he's better than godly beings with 75 million years of experience" but the argument that they're gods and Bakiverse are all humans so their martial arts is obviously inferior is really bad. They're completely different verses. Bakiverse is all about martial arts. Goku has almost no good martial arts showings in a fight compared to Bakiverse. Compared to Baki he just powers through his opponents cause of stats.
Yujiro knows all martial arts of Bakiverse and can learn any technique by just observing. Goku with equal stats isn't even an opponent for him.
I think bro didn’t watch the vid
So we all just going to ignore goku know every martial arts fighting style in the world, and some that don't even exist in real life?
Also goku is train by gods. One would think Gods training is a lot better than any human martial arts.
This could go either way
Idea I need from you, Konaha vs the other 4 great nations. All time teams tho
, konaha get ( hashirama, madara, itachi, orochimaru ect ) vs the rest of the the villages with there all time squads
Idc about what people are saying, I just want to hear the narrator glaze yujiro and see him use ultra instinct from where.
Goku: hey Yujiro!
Yujiro: hm?
Goku: let’s fight again in a hundred years!
Me personally i don't agree with what he's saying, but I understand where he's coming from. The thing is that martial arts in dragon ball scales way above any other regular martial arts that we know of including the famous kempo at the 30th degree,but one thing people don't understand is that almost everything in dragon ball is considered martial arts from the Kamehameha to other weird supernatural skills and technique, that's dragon ball's martial arts so you can't simply compare. And one more raising your ki to surpass your opponent is regular form of martial arts as well I'm just like the kaiyoken as goku said it also improves he's technique and all his fighting skills. So to put it short everything in dragon that deals with fighting except magic is a high level of martial arts they just don't appairant and put so much emphasis like other anime do . That's why all you see is punch punch kick kick and ki blast. So i feel like it's more of the studios fault for that
The the only version of goku that loses is when we are first introduced to him and chapter one
You should make a Martial arts vid on Mori Jin/Dan
The size difference gives yujiro an edge
I was kinda thinking Yujiro kinda gets the W with mid-high difficulty but if Goku taps into UI then he wins handedly
U didnt mention something important in an equal stats fight yujiro will have size and weight and range advantage though goku is adapted to fighting bigger folks of similar fighting skills to him but still an advantage is an advantage
Doesn't really matter, goku just has massively better skill
@@leonardopossidente6551 probably but still should have atleast mentioned it but as I said on my first comment it doesn't matter either way
Since martial arts evolve over time and goku has trained with guys with hindreds to thousands to millions to even guys from other time or time lines , goku has literally replicate people moved , decifer weaknesses in people's moves or create a new fighting style mid fight , goku travelled tge world abd fought , learned all types of martial artists seen . Well goku got more martial arts experience in martial arts than yujiro .
6:15 YES IT DOES, but every Versus Channel one, just give this to the Baki verse because is the ONLY thing they have, but if you be really honest, Yujiro is the High School of Martial art and Goku on the Post PHD , and to be even worse, goku learn's even FASTER, so not even the "Yujiro can Adapt" is enough, the Guy could adapt to fight against someone that jump time to fight, in seconds, Yujiro is amazing, but he is just a Medium fish in a really small drop of water
Yujiro has some bs when it comes to reading an opponent and instantly being able to copy their skills and moves. I would fear he may actually be able to instantly grasp chi.
Ui is technique so yeah but without it not sure
Yujiro demolishes in H2H and Martial Arts and its not even close xd.
I'm picking Yujiro cause he's more pure martial arts and skill. I've grown up watching all DB til DBS. Goku has incredible martial arts but leans more towards power. Plus DBS is more power focused, there's some skills. It's just we don't get enough explanation.😊
Goku mastering martial arts to the point where his body can literally react on its own ends this debate. That’s the absolute pinnacle of martial arts technique
Yujiro vs Goku aint fair it should be Krillin vs Yujiro
Ultra istinct is martial art invemted by bruce lee . Goku no diff
U forgot to take into account one thing experience goku while training with king kai king kai said a year training with him is like 1000 years worth of training and goku trainee with him for 7 years so that's like 7000 years worth of training a gap of experience way too big for yujiro to close amd goku was relative to someone who has million of years of experience aka beerus who trains with an angel it's no competition
If power levels across all anime characters were rqualed,, yujiro wins all the time
I don't even need to read the comments to know this video is going to be about TG glazing Yujiro because his 'martial arts' are more 'realistic'. Thia despite damn near 90% of his shit either being biologically impossible for IRL humans or otherwise relying on him being supernaturally strong and fast.
The one real fight we saw him getting pressed in, against Doppo, he pretty much immediately went for Demon Back once he realized he couldn't match Doppo's technique.
Meanwhile it'll be denying Goku pretty much his entire arsenal (most of which Yujiro has no answer for) because the martial arts in his world are too 'magical' in nature.
All while ignoring that Goku has far more experience fighting people stronger than or equal to himself (Yujiro has none, given even Baki wasn't really his match), and more experience fighting through crippling pain and injuries (Yujiro has none, given we've never seen him get seriously injured).
The reality is, this is a schoolyard bully whose superhumanly good at martial arts (Yujiro) vs a genuine, bonafide hero-warrior who is also superhumanly good at martial arts (Goku).
Anyone who really knows the characters gives it to Goku high-to-extreme diff (cuz' Yujiro really is that good, he just lacks the heart to gut out a win against a true peer because he has never been challenged his whole life).
Lmao bro just didn’t watch the vid and assumed idk how tf you came up with that goofy ass argument either with the martial arts being more “realistic” or when I’ve ever said that. Watch the vid next time goofball instead of commenting a hypothetical cap session
3:57 false, goku stated gohan taught him kung fu lol
He might give kid goku a run, but after goku hit Teen and Beyond, uh, no
Why you gotta do Aljo Dirty?
*Deletes comment saying Equal Stats right*
No but seriously you also have to remove Ultra Instinct, Telekinesis, Teleportation, & Hakai away for this to be fair.
That I think you’d have remove some of Baki’s one shot techniques aswell. Am I right? And I think it’s fair to Grant ultra instinct, considering it’s buildup and how would the word be prevalent? Goku’s instincts have been in his martial arts journey and how they’ve always hinted at something greater it feels like a big part of the character in the combination of his journey so to say he cannot use the technique just feels wrong to me. Maybe let’s not include completely ki based techniques like things like hakai. Embarrassed to admit, I only made the assumption the telekinesis comes from ki. If that assumption is correct I’d be OK with removing moving that as well. And then I don’t have strong feelings on teleportation. I really need to be more aware of Baki’s arsenal. Trying my best not to be biased to Goku because 😳 ☺️ ❤. No homo
Goku still wins
Goku just wins. He literally is a walking sharingan and has seen more and trained more than anyone more than thr Baki verse. They wouldn't even know how to deal with his BS technique.
Infinite options forget it yojiron is going nô where goku has more experience and skills forget it
Anyone thinking goku loses this just with the hands and feet, have no concept of reality whatsoever
Or you are just a goku fanboy
@@devilslayer3548 at least give me a character who can actually wash goku with the hands and feet including people in gokus own franchise, to assume that. You out here assuming fanboy for Yujiro????? What kind of fanboy does that?
Tbf, you just ended up conceding Goku actually wins.
Yujiro and it's not even close. He can perfectly mimic any technique he sees even once with no effort and has way more knowledge and skill of multiple martial arts styles, granted Goku is almost that good at picking up techniques but his hand to hand arsenal is still very limited compared to yujiro's.
Goku can also seemingly mimic extremely difficult techniques after seeing them once... And I'd argue Goku is very close to Yujiro when it comes to striking, but Yujiro seems to have more versatility in all aspects of Martial arts and even just general fighting in terms of grappling, and hell, bro knows how to use his teeth as lethal weapons..
All things considered and not considered, both fighters are relatively equal when it comes to martial arts.
No goku vs hit mention is crazy
Bro not watching the vid is crazy
@@ThunderGodTG okay you got me
😂😭
Goku can adapt and learn any technique from ki to martial art he is borderline a fighting genius knowing techniques baki characters wank constantly
Not to mention he remembers fights down to a T,he recreated the Jackie chun fight in super
@@Dark_Jarlgrandpa hogan not Jackie chun. Super is inconsistent as hell though. Goku didn’t know what meditation was and mocked vegeta for doing it when he has trained that way multiple times.
@@Aarforce1 feel like that’s just the writers highlighting how much goku has strayed from martial arts cause of how physically stronger his opponents have become that was one of whis’s points in super and pretty much the whole premise of the show
@@Dark_Jarl forgetting a concept like meditation is pretty wild and a stretch to attribute that to straying from martial arts. Dragon ball doesn’t have the best consistency in most aspects. Super Goku is close to a completely different character from z Goku.
@@Aarforce1 your thinking about it from a fighters standpoint when you should be thinking like a writer Akira isn’t a knowledgeable guy on martial arts he’s just a writer
Thank god
If master roshi was the greatest martial artist on earth. TECHNICALLY that would make him in the same boat as Yujiro. Goku was taught by Gods, that aren’t of Earth, aliens that aren’t of Earth. Goku may not learn from Crickets and praying mantis but Yujiros martial arts is limited to Earth while gokus isn’t
Do Yujiro vs Batman, pure martial arts.
Gentlman i appriciate the Goku glaze.
But martial arts in DBZ are focused on ki and raw power increase
If the stats are even Yujiro has several hand to hand counters like Shao Le and Aiki
Without flying super powers and lasers Goku might as well could be fighting blind
His training is diffrent and his focus as a person is non existant
Bro is just strong and agile
Yujiro is ahead of him in martial arts because energy control and body control are diffrent on so many levels its almost funny
Every feet Goku has is raw strenght raw durability or raw speed
His martial arts are just a reference to old kung fu movies
And no Ultra instict does not count thats a power up he should have had since he was 20
Moving without thinking is not impressive at a high lvl of fighting
Goku started the martial arts hype in anime i get it but his fights are way to simple and reliant on power
Yujiro murders
Yujiro will win , he have extremely high iq , he can create new techniques on the fly , Goku is really dumb. Most of the time , he won on earth because he is a Saiyan. He is just built different not cuz of his skills . And when he can't , he gets saved by plot armor bs like sssj 50x multipleier out of no where
3:33 Grandpa Goku? Its Gohan...
Aye bro look on screen on this time stamp and tell me what you see
didn't really explain what you meant by nerfing goku into oblivion... even without using his ki, he still has super strength- it's still not a battle
Hokuto Shinken has a 2000 year hist... oh sorry. Wrong video
Before I even watch this video Goku is a student to multiple characters roshi, korin, Mr.Popo, Kami, north Kai, and whis. A mf angel that have every knowledge in universe 7. There no way u can compare a Mr. Satan mf to a saiyan that was train by some of the strongest humans, god, and angels. 😂
If you also put them at the same strength then for sure yujiro alll day!
Goku gonna pull out his monkey style
Base goku countered a dude that can stop time with pure martial arts. No one seems to bring that up
Goku as a kid folds Yujiro
Ah yes another Goku nerf
There is too much ki blast in dragon ball to really say goku has better marshal arts than yugiro
Goku one inch punch yujiro into oblivion yuji dead story done
Yujiro couldn't handle kaioken
Has to be martial arts to make it fair to goku
Goku no contest, hes doing actual martial arts, while Yuji just does bs like using a human for nunchacks? that aint martial arts bro, thats just ragdollin'... i love Baki series but when it comes to martial arts, its kinda bs, since im a martial artist myself, i can tell from experience. Love your vids always thou
Yujiro does actual martial arts all the time he just prefers to use brute strength against most the people he fights to make it more fair
yujiro easily beats goku. goku couldnt even beat vegeta let alone kaioh retsu. ez yujiro dub
Isn't Goku physically stronger and faster
Nah, gotta take away Yujiro's power to keep it fair 🥶
Goku and hanma have mastered everything on earth. However, Goku has learned martial arts from gods, he’s learned techniques that hanma simply could never hope to learn. Goku stops literally anyone in hand to hand combat. Also the last thing that isn’t being mentioned is speed, power and durability. Goku naturally without powering up scales FAR above hanma.
What do you mean by saying you nerfed Goku? Goku is 100% weaker :p
When the daishenshu says Goku had mastered every martial arts on earth, and then you see him train with gods. 0.0 I call bullshit Goku literally know everything