I learned a bit and I appreciate the work you guys do, but also here to parrot some of the chat's frustrations because I feel it's swept under the rug. It seems very often on these Reedsy Live sessions that Science Fiction is the black sheep genre and is avoided. It was addressed once at 57:50 and we were "thrown a bone" but as a Sci-Fi writer myself, I hesitate to say this example is even within the genre? It seems more focused on the supernatural(non-scientific) elements such as classic horror monsters, reanimated corpses, et cetera, and handwaves their existence by mentioning Victor Frankenstein as the mastermind. My enjoyment of the sample aside, sprinkling in classic Sci-Fi elements like a mad scientist and some robots doesn't really make it a Sci-Fi story unless those things are explored in greater detail. This may very well be the case, but based on how it's presented, I would expect a horror-themed adventure comedy more than a Sci-Fi... well, anything. I'd wager a great deal of the writers who submitted Sci-Fi entries can't use Rebecca and Jennifer's critique on that sample outside of general information because this is so different from the genre's typical conventions. Much like Fantasy writers, we don't always have the luxury of grounding our stories on a familiar Earth --- hell, some of us have even constructed entire worlds. This means there's an extra step of logistics to sell the reader, so when line efficiency and concise explanation are at the forefront of the process, it's hard to glean what work needs to be done without proper examples. Even a bad example would help if we understood WHY it didn't work. As it stands, we don't know if those fantastical settings are worth reading or if they should even be included in the hook. We exist too, but we can't just say "London, 1760" to color their expectations and be done. Regardless, thank you for the time and energy that goes into running these workshops. I'll be staying tuned and crossing my fingers for the next one. ❤️
Hi JB! This was my hookline you were referring to and you've definitely hit the nail on the head. However, I could only pick one genre and as the main premise is set around Frankenstein I opted for science fiction (horror themed adventure comedy was not available in the genre options!) although I new this was not wholly what it was. The good news is that you were spot on with your description of what you thought the book would be, so in a way I succeeded in getting my idea across to an audience who are more likely to enjoy the genre. With that in mind I say thank you very much!
@@clymarnold4092 Oh, cool. Congrats on being one of the lucky few. I'll definitely be keeping an ear to the ground in the future because the title's awesome and it just sounds like a really fun ride~
Thank you, since listening to your critiques, the hook and blurb became more important to my thinking. Honing a novel's interdiction to reflect both the core conflict and the draw of the main characters in a few lines is a challenge..
Some plotting models call the beginning section (1% or more) of your novel the Hook. That’s what I thought this video was going to be about. In the models I’m thinking of, The Hook is meant to convey what’s unique about your story and to hint at and begin to set up what the reader can expect and to, of course, make them unable to stop reading. In movies, a good example is the first scene in Jurassic Park where the one handler gets killed by whatever is in the huge cage. In this movie, that scene can also be seen as a prologue; but I believe K.M. Weiland for instance called it out as the Hook of the movie. It’s that unique idea the movie will present to the audience. If it’s not unique it must at least be engaging enough to keep the audience wanting more anyway. What you guys are talking about feels more like a movie log line or even a premise of the story you’re telling. This is especially true since it’s one or two sentences and you say it must incorporate three of the things that people should usually test for before they even write the first draft. I’m early in my journey learning craft so I’m currently devouring the basics across several aspects of the writing. I think there’s some confusion here because there are multiple concepts that are called the Hook and they don’t all mean the same thing. I find the difference and duplication of terminology across different approaches to story is at the heart of much confusion for those learning craft.
Fallen asleep every time I've seen Jurassic Park. 3 times I think. 1st was in the cinema. Next was about 5 years later on Christmas Day, then happened again more recently at Christmas. Probably happens at the same place every time. Don't think I'll bother again. Jurassic Park, Dances With Wolves and Lord of the Rings are the only films I've ever fallen asleep to.
Thanks for taking time to digest my hook line. I think all comments were very useful and I'll certainly take them onboard. However, 400 characters is very tight to provide what in essense is a micro synopsis. I will try to flesh out just why the grave-robbers (hyphenated) are in the situation they are in. Once again many thanks!
Hmm, so I misunderstood what they wanted even though I Googled the definition of a novel's "hook" to be sure, and it sounds as though I wasn't alone, so perhaps it needs a better explanation on the submission website in future.
Quite agree. It seems like the term "hook" is used quite differently in the agent/publisher sphere than it is by writers teaching plot structure. I absolutely clicked on this thinking it would be about polishing the opening of a novel (similar to the First Line Frenzy concept) to hook readers. I would hazard a guess that most would-be authors who do their homework and spend a lot of time studying plot structure but have not yet queried would be confused by the title of this video.
@@sumaphelia I had another Google after posting my comment and the majority of results were in the vein of the story opener. Even when I tried to make the search more specific the results were the same. I don't think it would cause them any hassle to clarify that they are referring to a shortened blurb in future events, as it's blatantly unclear! There's no consensus on the definition.
@@Frogface91 Absolutely. The tone of Becca's clarification also made it seem as if she was unaware that most of us were basing our definition on knowledge acquired through study/prior research, not simply bungling the definition of a query letter/book blurb term. She's a super smart cookie and I really like her, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and I'm assuming she just deals with her type of hook more than "our" type of hook.
Count me in. A hook (or narrative hook) is the literary technique of creating an enticing beginning-the very first line or opening of a story-designed to capture readers' interest. And that's what I submitted. First time Reedsy has let me down.
I learned a bit and I appreciate the work you guys do, but also here to parrot some of the chat's frustrations because I feel it's swept under the rug.
It seems very often on these Reedsy Live sessions that Science Fiction is the black sheep genre and is avoided. It was addressed once at 57:50 and we were "thrown a bone" but as a Sci-Fi writer myself, I hesitate to say this example is even within the genre? It seems more focused on the supernatural(non-scientific) elements such as classic horror monsters, reanimated corpses, et cetera, and handwaves their existence by mentioning Victor Frankenstein as the mastermind. My enjoyment of the sample aside, sprinkling in classic Sci-Fi elements like a mad scientist and some robots doesn't really make it a Sci-Fi story unless those things are explored in greater detail. This may very well be the case, but based on how it's presented, I would expect a horror-themed adventure comedy more than a Sci-Fi... well, anything.
I'd wager a great deal of the writers who submitted Sci-Fi entries can't use Rebecca and Jennifer's critique on that sample outside of general information because this is so different from the genre's typical conventions. Much like Fantasy writers, we don't always have the luxury of grounding our stories on a familiar Earth --- hell, some of us have even constructed entire worlds. This means there's an extra step of logistics to sell the reader, so when line efficiency and concise explanation are at the forefront of the process, it's hard to glean what work needs to be done without proper examples. Even a bad example would help if we understood WHY it didn't work. As it stands, we don't know if those fantastical settings are worth reading or if they should even be included in the hook. We exist too, but we can't just say "London, 1760" to color their expectations and be done.
Regardless, thank you for the time and energy that goes into running these workshops. I'll be staying tuned and crossing my fingers for the next one. ❤️
Hi JB! This was my hookline you were referring to and you've definitely hit the nail on the head. However, I could only pick one genre and as the main premise is set around Frankenstein I opted for science fiction (horror themed adventure comedy was not available in the genre options!) although I new this was not wholly what it was. The good news is that you were spot on with your description of what you thought the book would be, so in a way I succeeded in getting my idea across to an audience who are more likely to enjoy the genre. With that in mind I say thank you very much!
@@clymarnold4092 Oh, cool. Congrats on being one of the lucky few. I'll definitely be keeping an ear to the ground in the future because the title's awesome and it just sounds like a really fun ride~
Thank you, since listening to your critiques, the hook and blurb became more important to my thinking. Honing a novel's interdiction to reflect both the core conflict and the draw of the main characters in a few lines is a challenge..
Some plotting models call the beginning section (1% or more) of your novel the Hook. That’s what I thought this video was going to be about.
In the models I’m thinking of, The Hook is meant to convey what’s unique about your story and to hint at and begin to set up what the reader can expect and to, of course, make them unable to stop reading.
In movies, a good example is the first scene in Jurassic Park where the one handler gets killed by whatever is in the huge cage.
In this movie, that scene can also be seen as a prologue; but I believe K.M. Weiland for instance called it out as the Hook of the movie. It’s that unique idea the movie will present to the audience. If it’s not unique it must at least be engaging enough to keep the audience wanting more anyway.
What you guys are talking about feels more like a movie log line or even a premise of the story you’re telling. This is especially true since it’s one or two sentences and you say it must incorporate three of the things that people should usually test for before they even write the first draft.
I’m early in my journey learning craft so I’m currently devouring the basics across several aspects of the writing. I think there’s some confusion here because there are multiple concepts that are called the Hook and they don’t all mean the same thing.
I find the difference and duplication of terminology across different approaches to story is at the heart of much confusion for those learning craft.
Fallen asleep every time I've seen Jurassic Park. 3 times I think. 1st was in the cinema. Next was about 5 years later on Christmas Day, then happened again more recently at Christmas. Probably happens at the same place every time. Don't think I'll bother again. Jurassic Park, Dances With Wolves and Lord of the Rings are the only films I've ever fallen asleep to.
Rebecca and Jennifer have excellent chemistry. I laughed so many times. Please get them back together!
Thanks for taking time to digest my hook line. I think all comments were very useful and I'll certainly take them onboard. However, 400 characters is very tight to provide what in essense is a micro synopsis. I will try to flesh out just why the grave-robbers (hyphenated) are in the situation they are in. Once again many thanks!
I don't think police departments had photographers in 1899.
Thank you! This was so helpful!
"The night before he started digging, Calvin Hornsby dressed in his mother's red
dress, high heels, and black wig.
....go on.... *stuffs mouth with pop corn*
You mean all this time I've been saying, 'alligator' pitch?
What a bumper.
Hmm, so I misunderstood what they wanted even though I Googled the definition of a novel's "hook" to be sure, and it sounds as though I wasn't alone, so perhaps it needs a better explanation on the submission website in future.
Quite agree. It seems like the term "hook" is used quite differently in the agent/publisher sphere than it is by writers teaching plot structure. I absolutely clicked on this thinking it would be about polishing the opening of a novel (similar to the First Line Frenzy concept) to hook readers. I would hazard a guess that most would-be authors who do their homework and spend a lot of time studying plot structure but have not yet queried would be confused by the title of this video.
@@sumaphelia I had another Google after posting my comment and the majority of results were in the vein of the story opener. Even when I tried to make the search more specific the results were the same. I don't think it would cause them any hassle to clarify that they are referring to a shortened blurb in future events, as it's blatantly unclear! There's no consensus on the definition.
@@Frogface91 Absolutely. The tone of Becca's clarification also made it seem as if she was unaware that most of us were basing our definition on knowledge acquired through study/prior research, not simply bungling the definition of a query letter/book blurb term. She's a super smart cookie and I really like her, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and I'm assuming she just deals with her type of hook more than "our" type of hook.
@@sumaphelia I agree, she's a nice person so to assume that the answer is obvious must be down to her familiarity with the jargon.
Count me in.
A hook (or narrative hook) is the literary technique of creating an enticing beginning-the very first line or opening of a story-designed to capture readers' interest.
And that's what I submitted.
First time Reedsy has let me down.
Simon from the Black Country
Hi, from the TN mountains
Hi I am Eshwar from India
Janie Fox, Nashville, Tennessee
HI
Live chat is so gross. People who dont want to learn, just want two minutes of fame lol