Small room, big hi-fi system... Could it work? Let's talk room correction!
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- Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2017
- How your room performs matters quite a lot - perhaps more than some would even think. But why is that? And can I do something about it? And what's up with that new RoomAdapt feature in the Music-family?
It's time for another episode of Ask the Expert. We've invited one of our Acoustic Engineers inside the studio to unpack what room acoustics are and answer all of your questions.
In this episode:
00:55 - Domey Ladkrabang: Small room with big hi-fi setup. How to?
05:09 - Suggestion no. 1: What can I do to improve the acoustics in my room?
15:46 - Nicholas Hayes: Diffusion vs. absorption? What's the difference?
18:40 - Santanu Dasgupta: Please explain Bass Diffusers.
21:05 - Suggestion no. 3: Which freq. areas are affected by boundaries?
24:45 - Suggestion no. 2: What's RoomAdapt and how does it work?
As promised, here's the link to the resource that Kristoffer mentions in the video:
Acoustic treatment: realtraps.com/
Room acoustics software: www.roomeqwizard.com/
This is the fifteenth episode of our Ask the Expert series; a series where we answer your questions about specific loudspeaker related topics such as digital signal processing, driver design such as woofer and tweeters, car hi-fi and so much more. You can find the entire catalogue of episodes here: Dynaud.io/AskTheExpert.
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The way they look each other in the eye it looks like its about to go down.
Vocals from these video is top class
I just wanted to add, the addition of images could be quite helpful for such a topic.
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
That is fantastic. Very clear explanations
Great learning experience- thanks so much 👍
I think we'd all be more comfortable if Chris would loosen that top button.
Oh, Sharon. But I do like how it looks. And I do change it up once in a while. There's plenty of videos with the top button open 😉 //Christopher.
Yeah Sharon, he's a hottie ain't he? 😋
geh
Very helpfull
Super helpful thank you
You're welcome. 😊 Glad you found it useful. //Viktorija
Enjoyed it thoroughly! Gives us a fair understanding before starting to buy the equipment!
I'm happy you enjoyed it, Bomma! 👏 //Christopher.
This is a great video with lots of great info. Keep up the great work guys. Subscribed.
Happy you liked it, Theatre Mad! 👏 //Christopher.
Very interesting episode!
I'm happy you liked it 😄 //Christopher.
Unfortunately, I purchased two 10 inch driver floor standing in my 7.1 system in a room with just carpets. The sound was absolutely awful due to the massive reverb. I installed two thick curtains, two mattresses hidden behind the sofa. One tiny mattress behind each speaker; Massive improvement! Sorted!
So in my experience this gentleman is 100% correct!
Best explanation of room acoustics / treatment. (Y)
Thanks, Gábor. I'm sure Kristoffer will be happy to hear so 😌 //Christopher.
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
The room modes in the small room are at a higher frequency, so they are easyer to absorb.
Room Adapt sounds very interesting. And, in my experience the entire range of frequencies will benefit from methodically finding the best speaker position in the room, not just the bass. The whole sound stage, its size, the clarity of it, and the speed at which you can hear the plucks of strings and cymbal hits greatly depends on this. If you put the speaker too close to the rear wall (the wall behind the speakers) or even worse, anywhere near a corner, you lose most of that sound stage experience. It's often in the sound stage that musical information is lost, where you hear real differences between amplifiers, turntables, cartridges, etc. I applaud the efforts of designing Room Adapt, as not everybody listens to music super intently and probably in the majority of applications it will be a great benefit, don't get me wrong. I just think it's a good idea to go into a situation with eyes wide open (ears wide open?) knowing what to expect. Summary: you lose more than bass performance when you move a speaker near a wall or a corner. A lot more, and that's really important to the critical listener.
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What a great learning discussion. Kristoffer, I invite you some beers and we could talk about this all night long XD Fascinating topics
Lol
I use floorstanging Celestion Ditton 44's as desktop speakers with a Naim amp. It works great. But I am weird.
What if you've upgraded to a Preamp that now disconnects the AVR from CD/Vinyl playback - better quality, but no room correction that can lead to listening fatigue.
but, wouldn't the bass response be best with distance zero from the back wall ? It's the other walls (floor, ceiling, sides, front) that are problematic, so :
- as close as possible from back wall
- (1/4)/(3/4) ratio from side walls for each speaker
- (1/4)/(3/4) ratio from floor / ceiling
- messy library on the front wall, in order to maximize scattering and absorbtion
Thanks for the audio advise but I kept looking at that wrist watch. Is it a Nomons watch out of Glashutte? If so I'm jealous.
Well, no need to be jealous, it's a nice watch, but not THAT nice 😔 // Christopher
I put dayton audio towers with Air motion tweeters in a small room and it sounds as good as it can with as crappy as the room is that is not in relation to it's size..
Having some images about the solutions will help a lot :)
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
So where/how do I get RoomAdapt and how much does it cost and what do I need to get it to work? I’ve googled it but little information comes up.
I have a small room 20 square meters with a nice size system and I have perfect room acoustics and a great sounding system with Zero problems.
Lucky you; probably the only person on this planet with perfect room acoustics...
@@manfredkrafczyk5755 haha....good one :)
Right, I'll believe you any day. ;-)
Any untreated room has issues. You're fooling yourself...
We ( my brother-in-law and I ) have tried loudspeakers of all shapes/sizes and cost with very little success,I think it's time to treat his bedroom 15 (L) x 9 (W) x 9 (H) feet.All the Hi-Fi specialist shops we have dealt with over many years have not mentioned the room could be the source of the problem.Thank you for drawing our attention to this phenomenon.We will report back.
Hi James. There's no doubt that an unfortunate position in a room can have a huge impact on the speaker's performance. I hope that looking at the room can help improve the situation. And do let us know how it turns out, James 🙂 //Christopher.
Thanks for the reply.
So,is there anything you can do or have done, from a loudspeaker design point of view, to reduce the negative effects of the room acoustic.Have you any knowledge or opinion on UDD technology (Uniformly Directive Diffusion) or is it a proprietary technology ? .The problem we've got is with the lower frequencies (too much/ill-defined ).
My apologies,I should have watched all your video before I posted.I shall look into your "RoomAdept" line of speakers.
No problem, James :-) //Christopher.
@ James Jones - sounds like you've been dealing with idiots... they're no more intelligent over here ;-)
Always are talking about Hertz .. :-)
Really great video. I have a couple of questions for anyone out there who understands better than I. What I took from this generally was if in a small room with say a seated position of 3/4s back away from the speakers, would it not be ideal for me to put sound absorption on the back wall and partly up the sides just behind my seated position so as to remove the sound reflections? Also, one of my biggest issues when running my speaker system is that I do like to have a fair degree of bass when watching movies, for example, my first experience of 'Home Cinema' was the original Jurassic Park movie, a movie heavy on bass when the dinosaurs are near, this is great for me but the difficulty I have is how do I isolate that bass to my small home only, ie not disturb my close neighbours? I found I simply would not switch on the bass simply because I wanted to be a good neighbour as the bass response would travel far outside my home. Bearing in mind my floors are bare concrete with pretty thin walls, Converted Garage, so tin on the outside thin ply lining the walls with fibreglass insulation within. Any advice would be much appreciated :-)
Hi! I'll run this past our team and see if anybody has some more concrete suggestions for you. But just so you know, Dynaudio is closed for the Holidays, so we might not be as quick as usual 😌 //Christopher. PS. well noted about the pictures. Good idea!
Improve the sound of your room for $150...
ruclips.net/video/1d9WmjTJniI/видео.html
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
Would like a video on how to master a square room.
Hi! That's a good idea. I'll add that to my list :) //Christopher.
@@dynaudio We are waiting for the video. just a reminder :).
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
I have seen and heard Klipsch Cornwalls in a tiny single dorm room.... Still sounded good although quite silly
I have got a pair of Klipschorn square room 6X6X15 Hight. Surprising standing wave I do not have any problem in low freq. So I do not spend on room treatment.
I had pro style dj gear in my living room for a while. I would play drums to the music without head phones. Sounded good like being at a live venue. I have Tinnitus now; but was a fun couple of years.
dublin innis those were the days 😁
Very helpful, my subwoofer is around 1feet away from the back and the right wall , can I use a thick 2inch or 4inch foam to absorb the low frequency reflection from my back wall. Will this help or cause more problems
Hi there, important question 😊 I advise you to look into this video: www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2017/november/ask-the-expert-whats-room-correction-and-the-new-roomadapt-feature. Foam will always lead to some absorption, but also removes energy from the signal. There are lots of articles about room treatment, as well. Maybe try some of these: www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/beginners-guide-acoustic-treatment ehomerecordingstudio.com/home-recording-studio-essentials/ music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/beginners-guide-to-acoustic-treatment--audio-1274 // All the best, Lilli
@@dynaudio Also, take into consideration the sub you own itself, if it's a downward or side firing speaker then dampening the rear wall is obviously going to be less effective.
@@MaZEEZaM No. With those kinds of wavelenghts in the (sub)bass, the direction your subwoofer driver is facing hardly matters at all.
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
And the answer is no, 2 or 4 inches won't do anything to he bass.
Christopher mentioned that in addition to the foam bungs available for the Contour speakers that there are sleeves also available, presumably to reduce the diameter of the ports. I have not heard of these before. Are they available for the Contour 1.4S LE please, and if so is there an official description/part number? How should I order, if appropriate? Thanks.
I think they are a 2-part separateable plug, where you just pop out the middle of it. Think I've seen it somewhere... not sure
Thanks, John. I understand....so not a hollow plastic sleeve like I imagined, that once slipped inside would mimic the existing fixed one but narrow the port. I like to have devices to hand in case I want to experiment. I have experimented with various numbers of drinking straws in the ports. However, I generally don't like to interfere with speaker ports. Thanks again.
liamo4 i'm not sure... So take it with a grain of salt
John's right: it's a 2-part foam plug where you can pop out the middle section. If you want to try out the 2-part foam plug, you need to order the one that originally comes with a Contour 60. It'll fit into both the Contour 1.4 S LE and 3.4 S LE. The part number is 1600062. //Christopher.
Thank you, Christopher.
I’ve invea more money than I care to mention in what I consider a premium sound system. My listening room is approximately 50 cubic meters and completely untreated. Audiophiles are proclaiming to like to listen to music reproduced the way the artist, producer or sound technician intended. Go to any live gig in a pub, club, church or concert hall and it is highly unlikely the environment has undergone any major acoustic correction. So, the audience will be hearing primary and secondary reflected sound, not unlike that created at home by your hifi system in your listening room. If you really want to eradicate reflected sound, bass traps, a Etc. Use headphones. No, doesn’t sound as good/natural/real as speakers does it? That’s because you’ve eliminated reflected sound which we all live with on a day to day basis. It’s how we determine where a sound source like a car or a barking dog is coming from, and how far away it is. With music, where the vocalist is standing relative to the violinist Etc. So, my best advice, is before you contemplate spending your hard earned money on room treatment, think about spendij it on better quality, higher performance components. My 50 cubic meter listing environment has concrete flooring, topped with wood flooring,. Plasterboard clad brick walls and minimalist furnishings. I have placed a lush thick shag pile rug, in front of and centred between my floor standers, but, that is as much for aesthetics as anything else. People often talk of the difference mains conditioners can make to a audio set up. Maybe, but again, I think that if you are genuinely thinking of spending thousands on mains conditioning, don’t, invest it in your actual sound system. One final thought. What happens when or if you move. You can take your hifi with you, what about your acoustic treatments. Now you’ll be glad that you invested in your stereo, not your room.
I would not care about room treatment if I had a 50cubic meter room for music. But unfortunately 99.9% of us don’t.
Harish parvatham I think you misunderstood my remarks. My listening room/lounge is 5 meters long, 15ft. 4 meters wide, 12ft. 2 meters high, 6ft approximately. This equates to 40 cubic meters or 1040 cubic feet, which is a small to regular sized living room! My living space is open plan. My small kitchenette expands that space by around 10 cubic meters, which is how I derived the figure of 50 cubic meters! bc
Howard Skeivys makes more sense now. But then the imaging is shattered if there is too much reflection no?
Harish parvatham yeh, but reflection in an inescapable fact of life. Hifi is an attempt to mimic reality as closely as possible. Some brands do it better than others. Ok, room treatment, may help bring you closer to that goal, my point was that I would prefer to invest that extra capital in my sound system, not my room. My hifi will move with me, my room won’t! I’m not criticising those who choose an alternative route in using their money to enhance their listening pleasure.
Hey guys pleaseee Little help i have a room with 5m x 3.30m x 2m height can i make dedicated home theatre with dolby atmos please unswer me🙏🙏🙏🙏😇
I have one pair of big florstanding, one pair of mid size but not small (20inch wooder) 3way florstanding, and pair of not small bookshelf with 20inch woofer too, each pair has separate amplifier and my room isnt big, midsize at max, and i dont give a damn about hertz, room size and esc, i wanted big powerful soft sounding stereo, and enjoy listening it, am i wrong because i enjoy my stereo, no, can i do it difrent, yes, will i do it, no, why, because i have system that i wanted, and it sounds the way i wanted it to sound.
I mean before building i knew how speakers sounds before i bougth them, i tried few difrent speakers and they didint liked to me, i knew what sound i wanted and i got it in small room by adding biger speakers, i strted with bookshelf, later added midsize floor standing ad later big and each time it sounded better than before
What is cosidered a small room? My Living room is 6 by 8 meters (20 by 26 ft). Is it a small room?
This is another solution: You dont need a room. Go to an external area, all the way with no walls nor corners and put high volume music into the speakers. But still need to place it in the right place, but far more easy
Ingenious solution! but a bit difficult to do when it’s below 5°c, and/or raining or snowing. What do you suggest, my brilliant friend?
@@donde2k get a pizza oven to warm up the standplace area
High freq are directional, but a speaker with a large waveguide? Does that change it? (from 22:06). Or I might not understand either thing.
Hello, thanks for your question! The short answer is no. A waveguide will control the directivity, and how this affects the response is highly depending on the shape of the waveguide. But essentially, a waveguide will make the beam narrower at a given frequency, not wider.
This is also why you typically gain sensitivity on-axis when using a waveguide - some of the energy that is normally going sideways is directed more forward.
So in short, a waveguide makes the beam more controlled, and when properly designed more even, but it doesn’t make it wider. This may help create a more even dispersion around the crossover frequency, so if you look specifically around the crossover frequency, the dispersion of the complete speaker might be wider - but overall the sound is more directional.
We hope this helps, please feel free to get in touch should you require further assistance :)
Thank you so much for your reply, that was helpful indeed.
Good English from these Danish guys.
Very funny accent though ^^
@@williamhansen9456 Then you haven't heard the Swedes...
I guess you would need a room to be a minimum size to achieve ideal acoustic performance and very few homes, not to mention apartments are designed with that idea in mind.
My room is quite small, about 10 square meters but it still has very prominent acoustical problems. Although I have to say, with my very bass-capable speakers it sounds surprisingly good in the bass at my usual listening position.
For even more in-depth information about room acoustics check out Acoustic Fields. Lots of informative videos. Admittedly this is a difficult subject to understand, let alone master.
I scheduled a free 30-minute consultation and spoke with Dennis Foley on the phone yesterday and he cut right to the chase regarding my issues. Now I have a clear plan with which to work. His advice was custom tailored to my room and it's problems. Very helpful.
@@johnnykaldani633 He truly is a gem.
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
So I have annoying bass build up in one corner of my room in my apartment. Should I treat that one corner, or is there another route I should take? It's a small rectangular room, with about half of the room being the kitchen/dining area (barstool), and the other half being the living room.
This is a description of the 4 corners:
The front left corner is in the living room, and has one of my speakers located there (of course, it's pulled out from the corner.).
The front right corner is in the kitchen, so no room for treatment there
The rear left corner is empty. This is the only corner where I notice the bass booming.
The rear right corner is where the front door is located, so no treatment can be placed there
You talk about bass traps and other treatments for the bass. I've seen Per Skanning's listening room and he has 4 AT15" woofers stuck in the 2 corners behind his main speakers and no bass traps, but it was well damped and I'm assuming he's happy with the sound. I also assume he knows what he is doing considering he was the founder of Dynaudio and other driver companies including his present company AudioTechnology. Any comments?
A few potential answers off the top of my head...
1) Either the size of the room allowed for speaker placement that yielded an acceptably flat frequency response, and the subwoofers (crossed over high enough) even out the SBIR that would normally occur in the front corners, while adding weight to the bottom octave. Since you'll always experience peaks and dips in the low end from speaker boundary interference, your options are to heavily bass trap the corners and front wall behind your speakers to attempt to reduce the amount of low energy that bounces back and interferes with the sound coming from the front of the speaker. This is usually only moderately effective, because the amount of absorption it takes to absorb low end. Personally, I'm happy if I can get my mains flat-ish down to 100hz, because I'm confident that in almost any room, I can place subwoofers in the corners and with EQ and a crossover, seamlessly blend the two to whatever your target curve is. I've never measured a set of full range speakers that had less than +/-6db variations in the low end, and that was a larger room. In a small room, you will ALWAYS have issues with low end, until you use subwoofers crossed over high enough to smooth out the frequency response. Personally, I use 4 subwoofers in an array around my room (14'x17'x9') with my mains running full range. I also use a MiniDSP processer with Dirac Live for EQ, and that box (along with the sub array) have been the two biggest game changing investments I've made to my system in a long time. I think a lot of audiophiles and engineers are afraid of using EQ on their playback systems, because they're afraid of phase shift or potentially making problems worse in other parts of the room. Those are valid concerns if you're using old analog graphic EQ's, but this is 2020, and tools like Dirac Live, Sonarworks and ($$$) Trinnov are all really really effective solutions to improve the response and imaging of the playback system.
2) the walls look like normal walls, but are fabric covered and hide lots and lots of bass trapping and treatment. You'd still need several feet of fiberglass or fluffy insulation behind the fabric to be really effective. Even so, all the stuff I said about subwoofers and SBIR is valid. My room is very heavily treated, I still have issues before optimization and calibration. After all the room tuning/calibration, it's literally audio Nirvana.
I use the AudioKinesis Swarm subwoofer system rewired to 8ohms, and run them on 4 channels discrete channels of amplification, so I can EQ and delay each sub individually. In order to calculate the filters and delays, I use a program called Multi-Sub Optimizer (MSO) before I calibrate with Dirac. MSO uses multiple measurements from different areas in your room, and uses predictive modeling to even out the response over multiple listening positions. It's got a learning curve, but it's magic when you figure it out.
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
@@youowemeapony He crosses his corner bass drivers at 80hz.
Could be alot of things, maybe running the woofers at different phases fir example.
Bass traps are a suggestion, its impossible to 0redict exactly how bass will react to every room without trial and error, too much physics behind soundwaves to easily predict
Please tell more about home recording studio ?
Hi Shahnewaz, we hear you and might consider it for future episodes. Thanks for the feedback 😉 // Lilli
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
Sorry to be in total contradiction with your words. I personally had the sad experience of putting speakers that were too large in my 20 m2 room. (With a ceiling at 2.20 m). Despite their qualities, they exerted far too much energy in my small room. With a much less imposing model from the same brand, I obtained a excellent result, with above all the almost total disappearance of the acoustic phenomena which had appeared with the big model.
I am very surprised that information of this type which will cause disappointments for a good number of audiophiles are spreaded out. Even well adapted acoustic treatment will not be able to overcome the multiple problems generated by oversized speakers. What is surprising is that a large number of specialists, including from acoustic treatment, strongly advise against installing speakers of sizes that are incompatible with small premises. Of course, there are exceptions, which unfortunately only prove the rule.
I wish for a RoomAdapt device,
but I already have my JBL Xtreme working, instead. That could work with my device it would be nice. If Im not correct, sorry I didnt understand it or how it works
Portable Bluetooth speakers usually don't have problems with over exaggerated bass because they can be moved around easily
I am still confused , but i do appreciate the professional advice ,its just my brain cannot digest the Answer
I think the better choice is listening music in an external area where there is no walls nor corners and you don't need to pay for acoustic insolation or treatment
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
10 x 10 room size ..i have 3200 watts hi fi system ... will it work
Sorry for the OT but are your two shirts the exact same model, only different colour?
Maybeeee 😆
What is considered a small room?
How about plants in the room? Anyone?
HI there, plants can actually be a good sound diffuser and where ypu place them in a room can certainly affect the sound. From a acoustical standpoint, the optimal arrangement is symmetrical ;) // Lilli
Treating a room is too much bother, try moving the speakers closer. I have a 10x14 with 12foot ceiling. Not a good room for hi-fi. I moved the speakers to flank my listening couch. Simple solution, remove the effects of the room by more direct listening. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.
No need of bass trap in a small 11by 13 room with 2 Tower (2-8'' / tower) tuned at 34Hz in Bi-amp !! ...Lot of peak and dip and the more critical is the Volume !! ...Hard to listen this at 0.01w channel :P
Well I have a huge issue when playing movies heavy on bass of the bass travelling to the neighbours house which I obviously don't want. One way I would remedy this was to try to set the bass volume to just above audible, so as to feel rather than hear the bass response, not sure how effective that was and for the most part, I chose simply to switch the sub off the majority of the time.
@@MaZEEZaM The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
Buying ported speaker dosent help it can be the speakers fact iv had enough speakers to know . buy a pair of ATC sealed speakers won't get bass issues I won't use anything else .
they still emit sound omni-directional in the bass both with or without ports.
ATCs help mitigate bass problems by not producing any bass 😉
I love you Danish guys, Dynaudio, Dali, Bang and Olufsen, so many great brands. Don't ever let Trump meddle in your things, he will ruin high-end audio! lol
We wouldn't even let him into the country...
It was actually a Danish guy, who invented the modern day speaker. Look up Jensen speakers, the company still exists.
Btw., you forgot other Danish brands, like Jamo (now owned by Klipsch), Audiovector and Buchardt.
The first thing you need to do is fix and treat your system; very very important. Bass traps not good.
Meaning...?
The RUclips channel audioholics, has an ongoing series about acoustic treatment and room correction, with a very famous guy, called Anthony Grimani (look him up!).
He is talking about the subject, with lots of images in a slideshow. Up to now, they have made 4 videos on the subject, of over one hour each.
You will be blow away, I promise!
Anthony Grimani is American, but travels over the world, to give lectures on room correction, and also has at least 3 companies, the most prominent being a company, that does home theater, studio recording and stage room correction, from A to Z.
And you're totally wrong. No equalizer or any sound correction can fix a bad room. Anthony explains why, in the first video of the series.
All bookshelf speaker go down to 60 or 40 Hz? Big floor standers barely go to 40 Hz... more like 80 Hz for bookshelves.Who squeezes 40 Hz out of a 5.5" driver?
Buchardt, svs, dynaudio etc. Many bookshelves go down to 45 Hz. The Buchardt go even below 40 hz.
Many bookshelves do, especially active ones. My active speakers with a 7.1 inch midwoofer (real diameter of the cone: around 5.3 inch) go down to ~30 Hz!
However, my case is an exception.
The new bookshelf Buchardt A500 goes down to 28 Hz.
@@akyhne How does the exception prove the rule?
@@Baerchenization Because he didn't say that all bookshelf speakers goes that low. He said "some even goes as low as...".
I'm shocked every time I hear an engineer talk about a room mode and define it as a reflection.
It is by no means a reflection, it is a very different physical phenomenon.
Room modes happen because air is elastic. This makes your room into something like a big instrument. Think of a guitar string: it is elastic, and when exited, it resonates.
Air in a room is no different, like in the pipes of an organ or a flute or in a saxophone too.
When you change the dimensions of the pipes of the organ, or chose a different hole in the flute, you produce a different note.
In the same way, the dimensions of your room determine what "notes", your room will sound, the resonant "modes" of your room.
If it were only reflections, you'd eliminate room modes simply with slanted walls, which is not the case, the air in a room does not "reflect" from side to side, it resonates, that's why also room with slanted walls have resonant modes.
You can dampen some of the resonations of course, but not by eliminating "reflections".
No, the air in a room doesn't reflect from side to side, but a standing wave (the source of a room mode) is defined by the boundaries of the room and of course the reflection of the air has to do with this phenomenon, being different the behaviour of the waves when the distance of all possible axis of the room match the length or a fraction of certain frequencies, and that is caused by the reflection of the sound within the room boundaries braking the cycle of those waves making them stationary. I agree there is more than jus a simple reflection and the way many instruments work are good examples, but reflections play a great role here.
@ giovanni spinotti Room modes happen because of the dimensions of the room!!! Nothing to do with air's elasticity - air's elasticity is a different matter all together & is an issue in high compression horn loudspeakers ( we're talking BIG PA & very high output...you can get sound distortion due to too much throat compression...)
This is a very complex subject.... And I'm no expert - BUT I can NOT believe the amount of BS spun by so called experts & people who claim a lot of "experience"
There is a TON of misleading information coming from certified & uncertified experts causing a TON of confusion....
INCLUDING misleading "lifestyle" photography where you can tell that the sound will be CRAP because of too many reflective surfaces & glass!!! ( Dynaudio has done this in their literature, as well as countless other loudspeaker manufacturer - totally dumbing down the clientele.
Just like the neanderthals that seem to think that DSP can solve everything.. (BS!!)
Room mode distribution and intensity will depend on where the source & listener is located ( that is Y a decent mastering room does NOT have a great big mixing console in front of the mastering engineer so he's NOT hearing the reflection off the mixing desk )
Loudspeaker location in relation to the listener in that particular room is key & is one thing that anyone CAN optimise.
A room with inner walls made of plaster, versus brick or concrete will also effect how the bass will sound, effecting the Q of the modes - as a plaster walled room will flex at low frequencies....
There is NO BASS diffusion in small rooms.. as per wavelengh...
MID/HIGH frequencies Schroeder &/or Quadratic/Fractal diffusers can be DIY built as all the equations are open source courtesy of the inventor of sound diffusion Manfred Schroeder.
All the FOAM room treatment stuff is way overpriced BS & that is you can achieve the same absorption via a variety of much more economical means....
Just my 5c worth ;-)
a guy trying to argue with dynaudio enginner.. hmm.. i guess you are wrong.. lol
@John Leaf > take it easy on us mere mortals & don't get this "deep&meaningful" with your comments....Someone might think that you have something meaningful to contribute here :-)
Is the air like jello?
Yes; there is one solution to fix everything; so his statement is inaccurate.
no, there is not one solution. you have diffusion, absorbtion, room correction software etc. Not one of those will fix all problems.
That's simply not true.
Yes, the solution is to move the speakers outside. Problem fixed!
Yes. And preferably up about six meters from the ground to reduce it's impact. But outside, you've got wind and varying noise issues apart from all the other non acoustic challenges@@blue-ck9ns
Arhhhh...I just want to treat my room but I don't want to know all this detail. It’s so boring.
It's always up to you.😊 Cheers, Viktorija
Boring !!!???
WTF is that supposed to mean?
It takes a bit more "depth" to get a degree in English literature than merely learning the alphabet...
Kapish?
A few people agree with me already. This is boring because it goes into extreme detail and it's not really necessary. There are simple diagrams and good practice guidelines for this kind of thing. It's not difficult. Elegant simplicity is vital in this age.
808 J it's about as "deep" as a sheet of paper... If that's deep for you, say no more.. To me they didn't even begin to scratch the surface.. Any complex field will require at least 10years of study & experience to begin to attain a level of expertise.
Of course I'm not mentioning politics where bullshit & deception are the norm
Acoustics is a very complex field... You can delude yourself by purchasing one of the many "off the shelf solutions"
A properly designed room should measure +/- 1 or 2dB from 30 to 20kHz @ the monitoring/listening point - your elegant "off the shelf solution" will have 20dB humps below 200Hz... You think that's accurate?
You wrote: 808 J it's about as "deep" as a sheet of paper... If that's deep for you, say no more. You were just writing to yourself. I didn't get answered anything. You are mad!
too much science talk - please give us practical solutions!
We try to strike a balance, but it's unfortunately not always quite that simple. Thanks for the feedback, though.
to geeky the explanation for me... Pfff
it's a geeky subject! most people don't even use auto correct...
Sorry; Bass traps are a bad thing. No traps can solve this problem.
This felt god awful uncomfortable. Why not just give us the answers in a presentation format instead of this hellish cringe interview like format? Dear god..
I stop listening when he said that most bookself speaker start 60Hz lol nope the most start a 70 or 80Hz , and its not a speaker issue big room or small room another bullshit claim. Yes size and type and brand can make a big difference ! But nevermind.
That's not what he said.