I've been saying that reflection works best with Atmos ever since I used non-Atmos speakers for this purpose. Everyone keeps insisting in-ceiling is the best, but like Andrew Jones said, when it's in the ceiling, it's a discrete sound and you know it's speaker-centric. Whereas when you have the upward-firing speakers positioned and EQed correctly, it's an immersive ATMOSpheric sound that is independent of any specific speaker, unparalleled in the world of home theater!
@@mikewright9547 In the owners manual for my Pioneer Elite sc-97 they recommend placing them in the middle rather than in the front or back if you only have one set of atmos speakers.
Andrew is a genius & a great speaker designer, as he should be, he's a physicist. I have all 7 of my speakers mounted 2/3rds up the wall 3 ft. above seating. The bubble of surround & the seldom mentioned Haas effect is superb! I'll stick with 7.1 & pass on the Atmos. But, I may buy his 5.1 speaker line, SP~K52FS to upgrade from satellites. I love the satellites as they're dialed in, but, the Pioneers are sweet. So, soon I'll buy the Pioneers to replace the 12 year old satellites & dial them in. Voila'! Pro-Surround Sound for under $500. Too bad Jones left Pioneer for ELAC.
Well, I'm glad Andrew Jones personally likes it so much... but there is NO WAY a professional sound mixer or audio engineer would ever concur that it is actually better. I've heard it both ways, and upward-firing is a blurry mess, compared to proper satellites. So, treat your room acoustics and speaker placement correctly - and you will be AMAZED.
At first I was skeptical, but then Andrew Jones, the same guy associated with Andrew Jones upfiring speakers....impartially told me to buy his speakers. -______-
For one, A Jones is way smarter than you when it comes to all things audio.....and what did he say that did not make sense to you? The algorithms for Atmos and DTS X were developed for in-ceiling speakers in movie theaters. Do you understand? In movie theaters, they are 40 ft high and not as localizable. In your home, they are 10 ft high (much closer) and highly localizable. The bananahead from audioholics came against atmos bounce modules for some reason and you guys are drinking his kool-aid now.
I bought three years ago the previous generation of Andrew Jones "budget" speaker system. Only to came extremely impressed with it. Now I'm waiting for these new Elite Atmos speakers to replace it. This guy is truly a genious. Can't understand so many people saying BS this BS that without even testing this new approach...Andrew Jones is a well regarded audio engineer...
+DarthCardo Agreed. My Andrew Jones speakers changed the way everything sounds coming out of my home theater system. It's quite amazing the quality you can get for very little money.
Agreed. His speakers are amazing. The people who hate on him obviously haven't heard them. And he's HIGHLY technical. he is just dumbing down the explanations as these videos are targeted to the general audience. I bet if anyone challenges him to a battle of HiFi knowledge, he'd put those egos in check with a quickness, in a polite way :)
hey people! can you all please help me out?? I'm really deep into the process of trying to pick the right home theater setup for me now, and for the future! please someone reply so I could ask a couple of questions..
For me the ceiling speakers sound better. I tried the bounced enabled speakers and they just didn’t blend like the ceiling speakers. It’s all personal preference though.
As a stereo junky, I might have a different view on this then most HT enthusiasts but in my experience it is essential to have mids and highs aimed and at ear-level. Proper speaker placement prevents unwanted resonance and reflections but more importantly; if the timing between the arrival of left en right channels is optimal, you get covered in a massive sound-stage in which (with proper recordings) you can place every sounds origin. Too many times I see people getting 5.1 sets, placing the rears near the couch because of room restrictions, mess up the crossover on the sub, and projecting the centre speaker against some furniture below ear-level and be wowed because "yes, sound comes from everywhere", but it's like a 3D movie where everything flies towards you. It's everything but subtle! If anything it makes movies sound like demo material for the latest surround technique with realism in third or fourth place. I do believe there is a place for multi-channel audio, in big theatres or large purpose build home theatres. *bold statement alert* Most consumers are best off spending (what they usually spend on 5, 7 or 11 mediocre speakers and an expensive AVR) on two great speakers, powerful enough to fill the room and be aware of proper placement. Heli's won't fly stupendous circles around your head BUT in a good recording there is a clear difference in the phase/sound/timing of an object changing position in the scene and your ears WILL pick it up and it WILL be immersive. I promise :)
I think the easiest way to explain it is the speakers sound further away because the speakers ARE further away, the speaker is 6Ft from the ceiling, you are 6ft from the ceiling.. 6+6=12 + whatever is lost with the sound being reflected and absorbed into your ceiling. I wonder if there is a noticeable loss in low end, compared too ceiling mounted speakers??
+Slot1Gamer Human auditory system also has to be factor into this. Is there a lag when you ear is processing sound so that different frequencies can have different effects. I have seen demonstrated sound systems that reflect of surfaces and they do work in a certain sense but they are no where near as good as physical speakers. I suppose for most people it would be better than nothing.
I went to a bose demo last year, they where showing off their new sound bar thing. It was a blind demo (meaning they told you it was 5.1 with fake speakers on the wall). They where like "see how awesome the bass is". And I'm like "what bass?". There was no low end at all and the directional sound (elfakeo surrounds) was weak. Just sounded like a really loud speaker with no ass to it!
+Slot1Gamer Welcome to Bose, it stands for Buy.. Other... Sound/.. Equipment. Most over priced shit on the market, the beats (headphones) of Audio gear.
American Sniper is the first Warner Home Video release on Bluray to have Dolby Atmos. This was Clint Eastwood's first movie mixed in that format in addition to Imax digital 5.1. I entered a contest on AVS Forum to win the 9.2 AVR. 5.1 is good enough for most newbies but 9.2 might be confusing as it requres plenty of wires and a good connection.
I read that now over 600 movies support Atmos. At the time of this video, he was talking about demo material. So it seems this technology is really becoming part of the consumer space.
Except I can hear the sound originating from the base layer speakers. I have found speakers from the ceiling to be vast superior. Especially when the sound is supposed to be focused and localized.
This is a budget system at best and makes multiple compromises. If you read the dolby atmos pdf they clearly state that physical speakers over head will generate the sound intended by the sound engineers. Pioneer is a budget builder so it makes sense why this system is 'their best'
IN the beginning we had one channel. Then two. Then three in front. Then two additional on the back. And then two more, one on each side. And now the ceiling... What will they think of next? On the floor? Jeeeesus...
I think I tend to agree with him. I currently have a 5.2.2 system with enabled height speakers in the front and it alone is awesome and immersive feeling. I can imagine having another two enabled height speakers in the back for 5.2.4 system would make the experience more complete. Previously, I thought ceiling speakers was the way to go. but now, I think I feel differently especially after hearing this from someone who knows what they're talking about. My ultimate goal though is either a 7.4.4 or even a 9.4.4.
They do have 4 if it's in one speaker cabinet like the fronts shown in this video as well as the surrounds shown in the video. Go to any site selling dolby atmos speakers and you can look at a rear view of the speaker,you will see 4 or in the case of add on's 2
My god, what the he'll is wrong with people in the world today. This guy is one of the most respected speaker engineers in the world, yet he's talking bs? For a start, if you had watched the video " v " the guy bellow!!!!! You would have heard him go in to detail as to why cinemas use the ceiling speaker instead of the bounce effect. And if you don't understand then you are really not that bright. My ceiling is about 7 - 8tf, I tested dolby atmos at my local richer sounds who's demo room has about another 3 -4 feet on that. They were using in cielling speakers and demoed atmos. I have upfirers, and I'll tell you what, everything this guy says is true. I found it less obtrusive and found the sound stage just as enveloping. The majority of home cinema rooms for the average person are not big rooms with high ciellings, if you have the delay and eq settings done correctly then this system is best suited for small to medium rooms with low ciellings and that should be a no brainer.
I had the same set up as you and I really enjoyed the extra detail and the added dimensionality. However, I decided to change my set up to actual in celing speakers and...wow...just...WOW... I immediately realized how dolby atmos was meant to be heard. Again...it was decent adding upfiring speakers...but now I just cant go back. Now...going back feels like a gimick. I dont know how to explain it better. In any case, at the end of the day...I would say that if you are enjoying yours, then you are a happy customer and ultimately that is what should matter to you.
Dolby Laboratories, the actual company that invented the Dolby Atmos Technology, who's main goal is to improve cinema sound experience, recommends consumers to (whenever possible) implement the technology with in-celing speakers for the overhead or high channels of home theater set ups. On the other hand... comes Andrew Jones, glorified engineer... what am i saying... RESPECTED engineer (as if there were no respected engineers who disagree with him)...MORE THAN THAT the actual person associated with "Andrew Jones upfiring speakers", who will (let me think) will make money out of you buying those speakers, is surprisingly telling you that Andrew Jones upfiring speakers ARE BETTER! Yeah....what the hell is wrong with people -____-
*My god, what the he'll is wrong with people in the world today. This guy is one of the most respected speaker engineers in the world* Well do not overreact here, ever seen a 30k costing Wilson audio speaker in real life? Or a good old classic Infinity (Arnie Nudell) or a Bowers and Wilkins 800N series. Andrew Jones is well respected, with in mind BUDGET making speakers. *You would have heard him go in to detail as to why cinemas use the ceiling speaker instead of the bounce effect* You tote yourself as smart, but in reality you're not that bright yourself. I am sure you meant REFLECTIVE and not "bounce effect" reflective technology has been around for DECADES. Does BOSE ring a bell? What is their reputation again in the audio community?! Less than favorable, the speakers Mr Jones build here are using this "new" technology because it fits the BUDGET. *everything this guy says is true. I found it less obtrusive and found the sound stage just as enveloping* You base that off listening in a room you're NOT familiar with, a setup you're NOT familiar with as you went to a store/shop to demo it. Those rooms are DESIGNED to give you an erection, if you're in a good room. In reality you need to test both setups in YOUR room/acoustics. To claim that it's the same is laughable in performance is laughable. *small to medium rooms with low ciellings and that should be a no brainer.* I agree, but to claim in ceiling (so dedicated) speakers vs a reflecting barely 5inch driver is just as enveloping is silly...at best.
Dolby say the better approach is down firing ceiling speakers if possible. Since they invented Atmos and people like Andrew Jones work for companies that have a vested intertest is selling up firing Atmos speakers I prefer to take the advice of Dolby. Many ceilings are not even flat but textured which doesn't work at all well for bounce type setups. Don't take everything people that work for companies selling products say, at face value, think about their motivations nihilityjoey, it will serve you well in life.
cbcdesign001 I don’t work for Dolby or a speaker company. I listened to all of you people that say it’s a gimmick and not as good and I can honestly say you people don’t own the up firing or you did and didn’t set it up correctly. When I first purchased my Atmos enabled speakers I was pissed. It was underwhelming and I couldn’t believe I just spent that kind of money on an Atmos system gimmick. I completely agreed with you all. However it was the only option I had. I also couldn’t understand how Andrew Jones could think up firing speakers were better. Well.... the problem lied with auto calibration. We rely too much on it. I don’t believe it knows how to handle these speakers. I used it to baseline the system. Then I went into the EQ of my Yamaha receiver and adjusted the speakers as I listened. Once I boosted the gain within that.... omg they came alive. It was literally magic. It sounded like there were speakers in my ceiling. It was not localized and you could look at the speaker and not tell that the sound originated from it. Still curiosity was getting the best of me. So I made an appointment with a local aV company and they asked me to bring some Blu-ray’s that I’m familiar with for comparison. I was super anxious and ready to be blown away. It sounded great! However mine sounded better. I continued with the consultation and setup and appointment for my rep Ryan to come to my house so he could create a quote for the installation of some in ceilings. Now mind you Ryan was the same shit talker as everyone else about up firing. Even though he never ever heard a demo of up firing. When I asked him why not he said that their company believes they are gimmicky and they don’t carry the solution. Only in ceiling or height mounted. I had him listen to the same demos we listened to in their showroom in my theater room. He was blown away. I then told him that I really wanted the in ceiling but I didn’t want to downgrade. He asked me how I got them to sound the way I did and I showed him. I told him I wasn’t interested at the time. He completely agree and asked to stay and finish Ready Player One. True story. Don’t let people think for you try shit yourself.
I do have up firing speakers they do sound good but from the ceiling they would sound a lot better coming down instead of bouncing that's my honest opinion that's a no-brainer
Waste of effort/money for smaller setups, especially if you can't install in-ceiling speakers. 5.1 (with True HD Audio) is still the golden standard for smaller/average sized home theaters.
The shape and acoustics of the room, (or the theater), and the quality of the speakers used, matters more than the quantity of speakers used. 5.1 is really good enough. And besides, the overall entertainment value of the average movie these days leaves a lot to be desired.
And they do the same type of system in certain “Dolby theaters”, the difference is in theaters that have like 20 different speakers hooked onto the ceiling, firing sound directly down to you instead of bouncing it off walls.
Upfiring speakers are a scam. If Dolby told people you have to dril holes in your roof, or hang speakers and hide wires in your wall into your roof and maybe pay someone X amount of dollars very few would bother...I bought the klipsch two R14A’s to use in my 11x13 room with my AVR-X4400H to use with my others Klipsch speakers and the up fire did nothing, I called Denon, Dolby everything was set up right IT DIDN’T work bottom line. So I mounted them them as high on the ceiling as I could and angled the speakers to face me...small room so they are close together and now I have Atmos..once again upfiring should be extreme last choice...
The only advantage up firing speakers offers is ease of installation. It certainly isn't better than down firing ceiling mounted speakers which Dolby say is the best option but recognise that for most people it's not terribly practical.
Greg Bartz Saying 6' above the ceiling takes into account the reflected distance. When running MCACC the microphone listens for delay, and it does in fact measure the distance as speaker to ceiling plus ceiling to microphone. When listening, the sound is less directional than a similar setup with in ceiling speakers.
Digital Trends There I was, spending time and money into making sure my room doesn't have too many reflective surfaced. Because, you know, reflections are the enemy and proper placement and room treatment is key to a large sound-stage. -Gillette- is proving me wrong again with -5, 7- 11 -blades- channels bouncing all over the place. Lovely :)
+EmpireLS56KW "6:30 now that really does sound like BULLSHIT! Bass on the stage left/right channels TOTAL BULLSHIT!" Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Depends on what those particular towers in this video can do. But, rest assured, bass is not completely non-directional and it absolutely does make sense to have at least front-stage stereo separation for bass frequencies if you're someone with high expectations. kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm
@2:00 I doubt that it's like that unless there is a really really intelligent decoding going on. I know you can setup you speaker setup, but can you tell the chip wheter it's in ceiling or Dolby enabled reflecting ? In the setup process the AVR would measure all speakers (level, EQ, phase, distanc e) and it will calculate a correction curve so that all speakers would be virtually the same distance and therefore the sound arrives in line and together from all speakers. I don't know how the algorithm will alter the in-ceiling or dolby enabled speakers.
Randy Los PREFER is not meaning BETTER, a dedicated set of in ceiling speakers will out perform a "direct" reflecting small little 5 inch or so driver.. To claim otherwise is silly LOL!
curious as to how they're planning to take into account delay due to ceiling height differences let alone reflective drive properties. Interesting though...
Nikolai Megdanov I believe he was referring to a singular calibration. Another words, the system will be optimized for a an optimum room. like the one they're displaying it in in this video. They may take averages and base calculations on that... but it won't be optimized for every room, given the variables. Usually, that's what they do. design around an optimum room. You'll notice the room he's in, is devoid of most things. Walls, ceiling etc are barren. They design them in what most consider minimalist in furnishings,v etc, etc.
chase no no no man, that's the beauty of atmos that it takes the setup you have and the room and it calibrates for the optimal experience no matter what the conditions are.
Nikolai Megdanov - edit: I just watched the video again. Actually he stated in the beginning pretty much, anything but an optimal room the system won't work. I get what they're attempting... nothing new. Only the terms are new really. Atmos and immersion may be a new term to toss around... but the theory and practice has been around for decades. The fault I see with this system, with others like it in the past, is the fixed reflex driver. It's designed for a fixed room size. No way around it, even with software. Other, perhaps less known brands, have had a reflex driver that allowed the angle to be adjusted. His theory is sound... he's simply attempting to add distance with a reflex driver. Designed with short or more common ceiling heights in mind. An attempt to trick the ear. Sony I guess is taking claim once again to attempt to standardize a mixing platform, I don't know...? As mentioned, "atmospheric" mixing is nothing new. A standard playback device for such mixes, that's new. Interesting none the less... Cheers...
the way it works is, the receiver has to be certified and have a mic in jack for the special microphone. you then place that mic at your sitting location, and then it calibrates it by sensing the room.
The average consumer barely gets 5.1 correct. I don't think we are really ready for the real Atmos set up in the comfort of our own homes yet. I can't believe this guy said Atmos enabled is better than over head speakers. The physics of it doesn't work. If you want sound in a particular spot, you need a speaker there instead of bouncing it. Sure you'll probably hear some sort of sound bouncing back to you, but is it good sound that you want?
You are wrong, "if you want soudn in a particular spot" no, atmos is more about upwards presence and atmosphere than surgically located sound. He explained it pretty clearly!
Since February or March 2021 four years after I have bought an LG 55-Inch 4K UHD Multi-HDR with Dolby Vision Smart OLED Television I have been saving lots of money for nearly a year on a high-performance/fidelity/quality Dolby Atmos full-on premium home theater moving surround sound loudspeaker system originally one of the two Nakamichi Shockwafe Full-On Premium High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Dolby Atmos Wireless Home Theater Surround Soundbar Systems with Two Big Wireless Subwoofers, A Soundbar with High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Full-Ranger Mid-Range Woofer Drivers On the Front & Tweeters on the Side that Bounce Sound off Walls & Ceiling and Either Two or Four 2-Way Surround Loudspeaker Each with a High Performance/Quality/Fidelity Tweeter & Full-Range Mid-Range Woofer Drivers That can be also used as Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers but after seeing 007 James Bond No Time to Die in 4K RGB Laser Projection for Solid-Good Black Levels Significantly-Increased Contrast Ratios The Best Color Reproduction and Sharper-Detailed Visual-Graphics paired with Dolby Atmos 3D Object-Based Multidimensional Moving Surround Sound at Universal Cinema AMC at CityWalk Hollywood with the vaccinated group from the synagogue Michael who is an expert on & works at home theater said don’t buy a new Dolby Atmos home theater surround sound system just buy high-quality/performance/fidelity loudspeakers with two Dolby Atmos upward-firing height elevation loudspeakers for my Onkyo 7.1 Channel Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Surround Audio-Video Receiver that I owned for 5 and a half years so in November 2021 not only I bought a new microphone eq calibrator for my Atmos Receiver that I owned and printed out new instructions for my Atmos receiver that I have owned but me and my parents went to a Home Theater Store in Los Angeles and bought ourselves a Klipsch 5.1.2 Channel High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Full-On Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Surround Sound Loudspeaker System with Two Klipsch Floorstanding Tower Loudspeakers each paired with a Dolby Atmos upward-firing height elevation loudspeaker all with high quality performance fidelity woofers & tweeters Two Klipsch Biople Loudspeakers all with high quality performance fidelity woofers and tweeters One Klipsch Center Channel Loudspeaker all with high quality performance fidelity woofers and tweeters and One Big 12-Inch Klipsch Subwoofer and in December 2021 and Late-January 2022 all the Klipsch Loudspeakers came in our house and between Early February we hooked up the Onkyo 7.1 Ch Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Surround Audio-Video Receiver to the LG 4K UHD Multi-HDR w/ Dolby Vision Smart TV’s HDMI ARC and started paring the Klipsch Floorstanding Loudspeakers with Two Klipsch Dolby Atmos Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers One Klipsch Center Channel Loudspeaker and One Big 12-Inch Klipsch Subwoofer and works fine Now in Late March Early April 2022 we set up the Klipsch Bipole Loudspeakers and also calibrated the Klipsch+Onkyo 5.1.2 Channel Full-On Premium High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Moving Surround Sound Loudspeaker System and it works extremely flawlessly including the Klipsch Dolby Atmos Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers. Watching films tv shows and listening to music on my Klipsch+Onkyo 5.1.2 Ch Dolby Atmos Home Theater Moving Surround Sound System sounds way way a lot much better than any Channel-based 5.1 & 7.1 Ch Home Theater Surround Sound Systems when I watch many blockbuster hit films & tv shows all with great action music and sound effects or even listen to music or audiobooks while I am reading the same book I was literally transported and pulled me much deeper inside the story and right in the center of the action i can hear and feel objects flying and moving above I can hear and feel lots of deep powerful bass from the subwoofers and woofers as if I am at a real-life commercial movie theater with ceiling speakers a live concert or a spelling bee but even though some of my tv apps will say the Dolby Atmos logo the tv itself not only does not support Dolby Atmos over HDMI ARC and it would not send output transfer or move any Dolby Atmos signals from the tv to the receiver in order for the receiver to say Dolby Atmos however I not only love Dolby Surround Upmixing Technology which what my Receiver has as in which the Dolby Surround Upmixer is part of the Dolby Atmos Bundle Technology Family but it is my all-time favorite feature on my receiver for watching surround and Atmos content since my tv won’t output or send a Dolby Atmos singal My Dolby Atmos Home Theater Set-Up from Klipsch & Onkyo is a huge difference over any 5.1 & 7.1 Home Theater Surround Set-Ups and it is a lot far way much more better atmospheric three-dimensional cinematic premium higher-end than any 5.1 or 7.1 Channel Home Theater Surround Setups that I can hear lots of sound effects and sound objects moving and flying above the ceiling behind the room around the room beyond the room and through the room in the way the filmmakers: directors & producers the sound team: sound editors/sound mixers/sound designers/sound engineers songwriters song producers musical artists musical bands and the musical-score team: composers conductors or producers, etc intended them to experience and watch those films
Sorry, bouncing of the ceiling is NOT better.. This is marketing hype. If you can mount in ceiling, you do. The Atmos system in question will make up for any difference in speaker location.. (close/far)
CineTechGeek How exactly is it marketing hype? They sell ceiling speakers as well I believe. Or is it that the enabled speakers are just more expensive?
Steve Last Name Mounting speakers in a ceiling is a lot more expensive than those stand up, just roll a cable on the ground speakers. Atmos is actually spec'ed in cinema to have full range on all speakers.. There is a good reason for that.. Bouncing sound of the ceiling is a HUGE compromise. It kind of works, but in reality its more about making Atmos accessible.. ie making it possible to purchase turn key system like the 5.1 crap system you purchase at CostCo.. (Ie with all the small speakers etc.. on stands..)
Steve Last Name Obviously I have heard Atmos a number of times.. In terms of home Atmos, no not really, but I have experienced those sound bars that use the same type of bounce of walls audio trick. It does work but obviously the quality of the audio is not good.. Low end bad, mid range not great. but what do you expect, your bouncing the audio of a random surface. Atmos Cinema goes to great pains to keep all speakers full range with bass management. This makes the sound travel around the room much better with no change in timbre.. Just look at the expense and time they take in setting up a Cinema Atmos room, what makes you think you can drop a few floor standing speakers that also bounce audio of the roof and have it sound any near as good?????
So I guess Bose had it right. I can see 11 901's for this. lol 7.1 is fine by me. You need a large room for this, I prefer the THX version of surround.
How about quad poles mounted above ear level for the 2 side/rears in your 5.1? There enveloped - thousands of dollars and many holes in your walls and ceilings.
Why not small cheap lightweight up firing speakers you can mount high on the walls and rout the base to the .1? Matched HSQ to bounce off the ceiling, sounds like a waste. Only certain frequencies are directional as he said but only certain frequencies are going to reflect off a ceiling as well. Height speaker needs to be a lightweight speaker you can hang like a painting high on the wall, otherwise few will use it and no media will provide it.
Krane why do ppl stick to this vinyl obsession with so much commitment? I’ve been into audio since the early 90’s and it’s always seemed liked hipster sentimentalism. Am I wrong? Also digital sound is far warmer and better than it was a decade or two ago. For example synthesized sample based digital instruments like drums and guitar sound even better than the real thing finally in the recording studio. I used to record to reel to reel 2 inch and then bounce to protools for mixing but the analog is just not necessary anymore imo
@@polarnj I think that digital audio has a bad reputation because of bad mastering( too loud= clipping or too much noise reduction filters). digital audio can sound as good as analog. just listen to the first cd pressing of brothers in arms by dire straits (the version where there is written " a full digital recording" on the cover. that cd sounds awesome! or the first pressings of Queen is dead by the smiths on rough trade cd. or master of puppets in music for nations cd. but my mono vinyl records sound really great , too^^ Peace.
I love how people get bent out of shape that this costs more money, and that his explanations don't follow "their" logic, and so on. But the reality is...you don't have to buy a bloody damn thing. So if you fall into the camp that this doesn't suite "your" needs, then so be it. But stop yer yapping because this isn't for you. And for those of you living in an apartment complaining about the neighbors above you...seriously, buy yourself a house before even thinking about a home theater.
There aren't really that many sounds coming from under in real life but atmos would allow you to install subs in ground for a very high end home theater (under your seats for example).
I think Andrew Jones lied here. Having identical full range speakers all around would be hard to integrate as any frequency below 200hz is highly affected by the room. Using multiple subwoofers to even out room modes is the best way to take care of the low end.
Bose and yamaha speakers both had speakers which are Atmos certified and amps and receivers which are certified and especially that you can move the speakers and bose had them angled so facing up and to the side, now those speakers are worth a mint, now if you really want something special you need to spend around 3K for just a pair of bookshelf powered DSP yamaha speakers and then the amp which is around 20K and then the TV which is around 15K for 8K which none of the home theater amps are set for yet, only 4K so the TV would only be used as a TV and not contact the processor to the amp etc, otherwise its all just a waste of cash, so around 50K like i have said for a real good home theater system all up ?
And what about DTS's new system !! we got to go and get new kit for that ?? The home electronic's companies are becoming like the clothes companies they want you to keep spending money. Now the bottom has fallen out of 3D they bring out curved screens when that dies it will be something else same with sound.. all good on a techie graph sheet but in the home is it really any better than DTS and TRUE HD ??
Gene Dellasala at Audioholics never recommends this kind of atmos speaker. He always says that you should always put your atoms speakers in the celing. I trust him way more then this guy and also Pioneer is way more behind in tec when it comes to recivers. Personaly I have Marantz SR 7012 and Emotiva BasX A-500 for my four atmos.
More marketing hype to sell the "enabled" speaker that sits on top of your existing speakers. Common sense, if you want sound from above, mount from above. If you use the enabled set-up, now you are dealing with reflections of frequency responses which is what you are trying to eliminate. Once again, marketing.
I think there is a lot of BS we have two ears, some how these ears can distingiush distance , direction etc of sound source so in the end with two speakers reflecting what two micriphones hear we should get th eright image
Scott Winy if the bouncing effect is impossible to achieve then you have to install speakers on the ceiling. normal regular fullrange speakers will do. the speakers for the atmoseffect are not cheap and is made for bouncing off, do not hang them up if you have bought them allready. on the site from dolby atmos are all possible setups reviewed with schematics for every setup. you can even download a free pdf with a 36 paged document about all the things possible with numbers and degrees for putting everything in exact position.
+Tim de schipper excellent thanks I haven't purchased the atmos speakers yet. I'm concerned with the ideal placement of the in ceiling units. Since they'll be at separate heights (in a 4 speaker atmos setup). I'm also concerned with the timing. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to buy an spl meter and hopefully my processor will let me calibrate the atmos setup - as they do the rest of my speakers. Hopefully a spec exists on this subject Thanks Tim
there are solutions for this: forum.beoworld.org/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.01.62.42/13128746_5F00_10156830842820433_5F00_1399318225_5F00_o.jpg or this: qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-27df61365e872f05ec8e6e37d9ad78a2?convert_to_webp=true both are easily made cheap if you choose wood and do it yourself, my ceiling is very high, 2m50 is way too high for some effects, the sound can be biased. thats your first problem, choosing the height for comfortable sound. the first pic is easily made, i would say 2 arms for 4 speakers around 60 dollar. the second is a support but you will need to drill holes. another option, propably the best solution is a combination. find the right height for your speakers in the air, then you can support them with cables so they float above you: www.lightingstyles.co.uk/pics/100/Variable_Width_Tension_Wire_Spotlight_Wide.jpg think of a loudspeaker instead a light ;) this one last pic is also a great idea: ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413AQ4hkvuL.jpg all of this should help you in making a nice setup. make a vid and post it when ready!
I'd rather watch a movie on my soundbar with good soundtrack then watch a Atmos movie on my 5.2.4 setup with a bad soundtrack!" Conclusion; . Don't worry so much if you haven't got a full atmos setup, it's far more enjoyable to choose a movie with a good soundtrack!
Have you heard of calibration - distance, angle etc...Wow what a BS. Create a hype based on some logic, people are smarter than you think, give some credit to your buyers - they're not that dumb
Atmos works just fine in a 5.1 to 7.1 setting...using the high quality speakers you already have...i've tested it with what i have and it's mind blowing...upgrade to Atmos speakers if u want to, but it's not a must have...my 2 cents
And how many DVD,s have been produced so you hear the helicopter coming from your right back and is coming to land in the right front? Its like a DVD 7.1 or 2 - I ahve a lot of DVD.s, but today only ONE DVD 7.2, but hundreds of 5.1. If you like to get your sounsystem sound like "kakofoni" - buy Atmos.
I'm looking for a new AV receiver but haven't bought one in about 25 years I've heard atmos and it sounds awesome what else should I look for in s modern AV receiver???
If you haven't bought already, the things you should include are Dolby HD, at least 6 hdmi ports, Internet connectivity, Spotify, adequate power (100 WPC at least), 5.1 surround, blue tooth and DLNA. Good brands: Onkyo, Yamaha, Marantz, Denon. Buy only from authorized dealers or you will not have a warranty. Good online vendor: Accessories4less. Consider a refurbished unit or B stock to save money. Hope this helps.
I agree Ted except for the refurbished unit. I would pass on that unless it was ultra high end and i say this because most lower to mid ranged gear are throw away items these days at the best of times and at least by buying something new the chances are better at getting a lifespan out of it which would be decent especially if its his first time in 25 years.But on a whole i think you gave him great advice.
Would you bounce sound to another room or actually put speakers in there like a normal person, same with the ceiling speakers. It doesn't make any sense minor exception with soundbars cause everyone knows they are a simple way of great sound.
I've been saying that reflection works best with Atmos ever since I used non-Atmos speakers for this purpose. Everyone keeps insisting in-ceiling is the best, but like Andrew Jones said, when it's in the ceiling, it's a discrete sound and you know it's speaker-centric. Whereas when you have the upward-firing speakers positioned and EQed correctly, it's an immersive ATMOSpheric sound that is independent of any specific speaker, unparalleled in the world of home theater!
If you only have two upward firing atmos speakers do they go at the front or rear.
no. left and right
Mike Wright Either or even both. Most use up front if they only have 2.
ty
@@mikewright9547 In the owners manual for my Pioneer Elite sc-97 they recommend placing them in the middle rather than in the front or back if you only have one set of atmos speakers.
I bet this would make my 128kbps mp3's from my iPhone sound tip top!
James Herd well since we're now suppose to bounce sound all over the place through 11 bloody channels, compression might the least of your worries ;)
Andrew is a genius & a great speaker designer, as he should be, he's a physicist.
I have all 7 of my speakers mounted 2/3rds up the wall 3 ft. above seating.
The bubble of surround & the seldom mentioned Haas effect is superb!
I'll stick with 7.1 & pass on the Atmos.
But, I may buy his 5.1 speaker line, SP~K52FS
to upgrade from satellites.
I love the satellites as they're dialed in, but, the Pioneers are sweet.
So, soon I'll buy the Pioneers to replace the 12 year old satellites & dial them in.
Voila'!
Pro-Surround Sound for under $500.
Too bad Jones left Pioneer for ELAC.
6:55 - Andrew Jones got the sweet spot on the couch.
Well, I'm glad Andrew Jones personally likes it so much... but there is NO WAY a professional sound mixer or audio engineer would ever concur that it is actually better. I've heard it both ways, and upward-firing is a blurry mess, compared to proper satellites. So, treat your room acoustics and speaker placement correctly - and you will be AMAZED.
At first I was skeptical, but then Andrew Jones, the same guy associated with Andrew Jones upfiring speakers....impartially told me to buy his speakers.
-______-
For one, A Jones is way smarter than you when it comes to all things audio.....and what did he say that did not make sense to you? The algorithms for Atmos and DTS X were developed for in-ceiling speakers in movie theaters. Do you understand? In movie theaters, they are 40 ft high and not as localizable. In your home, they are 10 ft high (much closer) and highly localizable. The bananahead from audioholics came against atmos bounce modules for some reason and you guys are drinking his kool-aid now.
I say this was a great explanation of how the concept works and what to look for when making a surround purchase. Thank you!
I bought three years ago the previous generation of Andrew Jones "budget" speaker system. Only to came extremely impressed with it. Now I'm waiting for these new Elite Atmos speakers to replace it. This guy is truly a genious. Can't understand so many people saying BS this BS that without even testing this new approach...Andrew Jones is a well regarded audio engineer...
+DarthCardo Agreed. My Andrew Jones speakers changed the way everything sounds coming out of my home theater system. It's quite amazing the quality you can get for very little money.
Agreed. His speakers are amazing. The people who hate on him obviously haven't heard them. And he's HIGHLY technical. he is just dumbing down the explanations as these videos are targeted to the general audience. I bet if anyone challenges him to a battle of HiFi knowledge, he'd put those egos in check with a quickness, in a polite way :)
hey people! can you all please help me out?? I'm really deep into the process of trying to pick the right home theater setup for me now, and for the future! please someone reply so I could ask a couple of questions..
For me the ceiling speakers sound better. I tried the bounced enabled speakers and they just didn’t blend like the ceiling speakers. It’s all personal preference though.
There's a big variance. Ceiling material, height, angle of attack.. heck even if the ceiling is a bit reclined.
"Bouncing off the ceiling is better" no audiophile ever said! Perhaps Bose owners... 😂
As a stereo junky, I might have a different view on this then most HT enthusiasts but in my experience it is essential to have mids and highs aimed and at ear-level. Proper speaker placement prevents unwanted resonance and reflections but more importantly; if the timing between the arrival of left en right channels is optimal, you get covered in a massive sound-stage in which (with proper recordings) you can place every sounds origin.
Too many times I see people getting 5.1 sets, placing the rears near the couch because of room restrictions, mess up the crossover on the sub, and projecting the centre speaker against some furniture below ear-level and be wowed because "yes, sound comes from everywhere", but it's like a 3D movie where everything flies towards you. It's everything but subtle! If anything it makes movies sound like demo material for the latest surround technique with realism in third or fourth place.
I do believe there is a place for multi-channel audio, in big theatres or large purpose build home theatres. *bold statement alert* Most consumers are best off spending (what they usually spend on 5, 7 or 11 mediocre speakers and an expensive AVR) on two great speakers, powerful enough to fill the room and be aware of proper placement. Heli's won't fly stupendous circles around your head BUT in a good recording there is a clear difference in the phase/sound/timing of an object changing position in the scene and your ears WILL pick it up and it WILL be immersive. I promise :)
I think the easiest way to explain it is the speakers sound further away because the speakers ARE further away, the speaker is 6Ft from the ceiling, you are 6ft from the ceiling.. 6+6=12 + whatever is lost with the sound being reflected and absorbed into your ceiling.
I wonder if there is a noticeable loss in low end, compared too ceiling mounted speakers??
+Slot1Gamer
Human auditory system also has to be factor into this. Is there a lag when you ear is processing sound so that different frequencies can have different effects.
I have seen demonstrated sound systems that reflect of surfaces and they do work in a certain sense but they are no where near as good as physical speakers.
I suppose for most people it would be better than nothing.
I went to a bose demo last year, they where showing off their new sound bar thing. It was a blind demo (meaning they told you it was 5.1 with fake speakers on the wall). They where like "see how awesome the bass is". And I'm like "what bass?". There was no low end at all and the directional sound (elfakeo surrounds) was weak. Just sounded like a really loud speaker with no ass to it!
+Slot1Gamer Welcome to Bose, it stands for Buy.. Other... Sound/.. Equipment. Most over priced shit on the market, the beats (headphones) of Audio gear.
American Sniper is the first Warner Home Video release on Bluray to have Dolby Atmos. This was Clint Eastwood's first movie mixed in that format in addition to Imax digital 5.1. I entered a contest on AVS Forum to win the 9.2 AVR. 5.1 is good enough for most newbies but 9.2 might be confusing as it requres plenty of wires and a good connection.
Dolby atmos so loud 🔊 and powerful and energetic bass.... All well balanced.....
I read that now over 600 movies support Atmos. At the time of this video, he was talking about demo material. So it seems this technology is really becoming part of the consumer space.
Except I can hear the sound originating from the base layer speakers.
I have found speakers from the ceiling to be vast superior. Especially when the sound is supposed to be focused and localized.
I've been saying for years that Atmos ceiling speakers should be diffuse.
This is a budget system at best and makes multiple compromises. If you read the dolby atmos pdf they clearly state that physical speakers over head will generate the sound intended by the sound engineers. Pioneer is a budget builder so it makes sense why this system is 'their best'
IN the beginning we had one channel. Then two. Then three in front. Then two additional on the back. And then two more, one on each side. And now the ceiling... What will they think of next? On the floor? Jeeeesus...
TheRobertSt I think there are ATMOS setups with floor speakers
So basically if you don't get the integrated in your screwed because he said the add on wasn't key but the integrated atmos is what is key
I was doing this set-up years ago -- reinforce with ceiling mounted speakers
I think I tend to agree with him. I currently have a 5.2.2 system with enabled height speakers in the front and it alone is awesome and immersive feeling. I can imagine having another two enabled height speakers in the back for 5.2.4 system would make the experience more complete.
Previously, I thought ceiling speakers was the way to go. but now, I think I feel differently especially after hearing this from someone who knows what they're talking about. My ultimate goal though is either a 7.4.4 or even a 9.4.4.
Andrew is a legend.
What does he mean by move around? Is that when there's an earthquake or flood and you have to leave your sofa?
Andrew jones is awesome. Love my pioneer speakers
I dont get it on an atmos amplifier you must connect the height speakers seperate...these bounce speakers have only 2 cables...they should have 4 ?
They do have 4 if it's in one speaker cabinet like the fronts shown in this video as well as the surrounds shown in the video. Go to any site selling dolby atmos speakers and you can look at a rear view of the speaker,you will see 4 or in the case of add on's 2
I have these speakers they have 4 terminals, 1 set being height, 1 set for main.
My god, what the he'll is wrong with people in the world today. This guy is one of the most respected speaker engineers in the world, yet he's talking bs? For a start, if you had watched the video " v " the guy bellow!!!!! You would have heard him go in to detail as to why cinemas use the ceiling speaker instead of the bounce effect. And if you don't understand then you are really not that bright. My ceiling is about 7 - 8tf, I tested dolby atmos at my local richer sounds who's demo room has about another 3 -4 feet on that. They were using in cielling speakers and demoed atmos. I have upfirers, and I'll tell you what, everything this guy says is true. I found it less obtrusive and found the sound stage just as enveloping. The majority of home cinema rooms for the average person are not big rooms with high ciellings, if you have the delay and eq settings done correctly then this system is best suited for small to medium rooms with low ciellings and that should be a no brainer.
I had the same set up as you and I really enjoyed the extra detail and the added dimensionality. However, I decided to change my set up to actual in celing speakers and...wow...just...WOW... I immediately realized how dolby atmos was meant to be heard. Again...it was decent adding upfiring speakers...but now I just cant go back. Now...going back feels like a gimick. I dont know how to explain it better. In any case, at the end of the day...I would say that if you are enjoying yours, then you are a happy customer and ultimately that is what should matter to you.
Dolby Laboratories, the actual company that invented the Dolby Atmos Technology, who's main goal is to improve cinema sound experience, recommends consumers to (whenever possible) implement the technology with in-celing speakers for the overhead or high channels of home theater set ups. On the other hand... comes Andrew Jones, glorified engineer... what am i saying... RESPECTED engineer (as if there were no respected engineers who disagree with him)...MORE THAN THAT the actual person associated with "Andrew Jones upfiring speakers", who will (let me think) will make money out of you buying those speakers, is surprisingly telling you that Andrew Jones upfiring speakers ARE BETTER!
Yeah....what the hell is wrong with people -____-
*My god, what the he'll is wrong with people in the world today. This guy
is one of the most respected speaker engineers in the world*
Well do not overreact here, ever seen a 30k costing Wilson audio speaker in real life? Or a good old classic Infinity (Arnie Nudell) or a Bowers and Wilkins 800N series. Andrew Jones is well respected, with in mind BUDGET making speakers.
*You would have heard him go in to detail as to why cinemas use the ceiling speaker instead of the bounce effect*
You tote yourself as smart, but in reality you're not that bright yourself. I am sure you meant REFLECTIVE and not "bounce effect" reflective technology has been around for DECADES. Does BOSE ring a bell? What is their reputation again in the audio community?! Less than favorable, the speakers Mr Jones build here are using this "new" technology because it fits the BUDGET.
*everything this guy says is true. I found it less obtrusive and found the sound stage just as enveloping*
You base that off listening in a room you're NOT familiar with, a setup you're NOT familiar with as you went to a store/shop to demo it. Those rooms are DESIGNED to give you an erection, if you're in a good room. In reality you need to test both setups in YOUR room/acoustics. To claim that it's the same is laughable in performance is laughable.
*small to medium rooms with low ciellings and that should be a no brainer.*
I agree, but to claim in ceiling (so dedicated) speakers vs a reflecting barely 5inch driver is just as enveloping is silly...at best.
Dolby say the better approach is down firing ceiling speakers if possible. Since they invented Atmos and people like Andrew Jones work for companies that have a vested intertest is selling up firing Atmos speakers I prefer to take the advice of Dolby. Many ceilings are not even flat but textured which doesn't work at all well for bounce type setups. Don't take everything people that work for companies selling products say, at face value, think about their motivations nihilityjoey, it will serve you well in life.
cbcdesign001
I don’t work for Dolby or a speaker company. I listened to all of you people that say it’s a gimmick and not as good and I can honestly say you people don’t own the up firing or you did and didn’t set it up correctly. When I first purchased my Atmos enabled speakers I was pissed. It was underwhelming and I couldn’t believe I just spent that kind of money on an Atmos system gimmick. I completely agreed with you all. However it was the only option I had. I also couldn’t understand how Andrew Jones could think up firing speakers were better.
Well.... the problem lied with auto calibration. We rely too much on it. I don’t believe it knows how to handle these speakers. I used it to baseline the system. Then I went into the EQ of my Yamaha receiver and adjusted the speakers as I listened. Once I boosted the gain within that.... omg they came alive. It was literally magic. It sounded like there were speakers in my ceiling. It was not localized and you could look at the speaker and not tell that the sound originated from it.
Still curiosity was getting the best of me. So I made an appointment with a local aV company and they asked me to bring some Blu-ray’s that I’m familiar with for comparison. I was super anxious and ready to be blown away. It sounded great! However mine sounded better. I continued with the consultation and setup and appointment for my rep Ryan to come to my house so he could create a quote for the installation of some in ceilings. Now mind you Ryan was the same shit talker as everyone else about up firing. Even though he never ever heard a demo of up firing. When I asked him why not he said that their company believes they are gimmicky and they don’t carry the solution. Only in ceiling or height mounted. I had him listen to the same demos we listened to in their showroom in my theater room. He was blown away. I then told him that I really wanted the in ceiling but I didn’t want to downgrade. He asked me how I got them to sound the way I did and I showed him. I told him I wasn’t interested at the time. He completely agree and asked to stay and finish Ready Player One. True story. Don’t let people think for you try shit yourself.
I do have up firing speakers they do sound good but from the ceiling they would sound a lot better coming down instead of bouncing that's my honest opinion that's a no-brainer
Say Thank you Bose 901's, I have 7 901's and look forward to trying this with pointing a pair or two upward
That wouldn't work, it would just fire downward since the majority of the drivers are in the rear.
"bouncing off the ceiling is better than in-ceiling speakers" - some guy from pioneer
Pioneer for the win!
DigitalRev music on the background :)
Waste of effort/money for smaller setups, especially if you can't install in-ceiling speakers. 5.1 (with True HD Audio) is still the golden standard for smaller/average sized home theaters.
The shape and acoustics of the room, (or the theater), and the quality of the speakers used, matters more than the quantity of speakers used. 5.1 is really good enough. And besides, the overall entertainment value of the average movie these days leaves a lot to be desired.
That depends on the sound source. Music perhaps, but dialogue or sound effects not so much.
If that's the case why don't they do that in the cinema since it works so good
Jack Farias because unlike living rooms theaters are huge rooms so the sound would mostly dissipate before it gets to your ears.
And they do the same type of system in certain “Dolby theaters”, the difference is in theaters that have like 20 different speakers hooked onto the ceiling, firing sound directly down to you instead of bouncing it off walls.
Upfiring speakers are a scam. If Dolby told people you have to dril holes in your roof, or hang speakers and hide wires in your wall into your roof and maybe pay someone X amount of dollars very few would bother...I bought the klipsch two R14A’s to use in my 11x13 room with my AVR-X4400H to use with my others Klipsch speakers and the up fire did nothing, I called Denon, Dolby everything was set up right IT DIDN’T work bottom line. So I mounted them them as high on the ceiling as I could and angled the speakers to face me...small room so they are close together and now I have Atmos..once again upfiring should be extreme last choice...
The only advantage up firing speakers offers is ease of installation. It certainly isn't better than down firing ceiling mounted speakers which Dolby say is the best option but recognise that for most people it's not terribly practical.
I've always pointed my rear speakers to the ceiling fills the room more from bottom top, mine are few foot off the ground pointed at an angle up
@3:30 does that mean that we cant use any bookshelf or satellite speaker for Atmos? it has be DOLBY ENABLED thing?
I'm calling bs on the enabled sounding 6' above the ceiling.
Greg Bartz Saying 6' above the ceiling takes into account the reflected distance. When running MCACC the microphone listens for delay, and it does in fact measure the distance as speaker to ceiling plus ceiling to microphone. When listening, the sound is less directional than a similar setup with in ceiling speakers.
EmpireLS56KW None of which you spoke about, besides the actual Atmos theater, had Atmos decoding. It's not just speaker placement...
Digital Trends There I was, spending time and money into making sure my room doesn't have too many reflective surfaced. Because, you know, reflections are the enemy and proper placement and room treatment is key to a large sound-stage. -Gillette- is proving me wrong again with -5, 7- 11 -blades- channels bouncing all over the place. Lovely :)
I agree, I have a client who swore by it till I put ceiling speakers in and it was night and day difference!
+EmpireLS56KW
"6:30 now that really does sound like BULLSHIT! Bass on the stage left/right channels TOTAL BULLSHIT!"
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Depends on what those particular towers in this video can do. But, rest assured, bass is not completely non-directional and it absolutely does make sense to have at least front-stage stereo separation for bass frequencies if you're someone with high expectations.
kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm
Question: is the Add-on atmos speaker (adding it to the the non-atmos pioneer towers) the same as the towers with integrated atmos?
bonjour.jevoudrais savoir ou brancher mes 2 haut parleurs atmos de plafond sur mon ampli yamaha rx-a850 merci cordialement
@2:00 I doubt that it's like that unless there is a really really intelligent decoding going on. I know you can setup you speaker setup, but can you tell the chip wheter it's in ceiling or Dolby enabled reflecting ? In the setup process the AVR would measure all speakers (level, EQ, phase, distanc e) and it will calculate a correction curve so that all speakers would be virtually the same distance and therefore the sound arrives in line and together from all speakers. I don't know how the algorithm will alter the in-ceiling or dolby enabled speakers.
This is all BS, Physical speakers on the ceiling is much better. Setup is key!
+BUZDRIFT yup.
You're right I agreed, he's trying to sell their atmos bouncing speakers also.
SovL:Remedy even Dolby prefers the bouncing tech
Randy Los PREFER is not meaning BETTER, a dedicated set of in ceiling speakers will out perform a "direct" reflecting small little 5 inch or so driver.. To claim otherwise is silly LOL!
curious as to how they're planning to take into account delay due to ceiling height differences let alone reflective drive properties.
Interesting though...
well that's the calibration he was talking about right at the end of the video
Nikolai Megdanov I believe he was referring to a singular calibration. Another words, the system will be optimized for a an optimum room. like the one they're displaying it in in this video. They may take averages and base calculations on that... but it won't be optimized for every room, given the variables. Usually, that's what they do. design around an optimum room.
You'll notice the room he's in, is devoid of most things. Walls, ceiling etc are barren. They design them in what most consider minimalist in furnishings,v etc, etc.
chase no no no man, that's the beauty of atmos that it takes the setup you have and the room and it calibrates for the optimal experience no matter what the conditions are.
Nikolai Megdanov - edit: I just watched the video again. Actually he stated in the beginning pretty much, anything but an optimal room the system won't work.
I get what they're attempting... nothing new. Only the terms are new really.
Atmos and immersion may be a new term to toss around... but the theory and practice has been around for decades.
The fault I see with this system, with others like it in the past, is the fixed reflex driver. It's designed for a fixed room size. No way around it, even with software. Other, perhaps less known brands, have had a reflex driver that allowed the angle to be adjusted.
His theory is sound... he's simply attempting to add distance with a reflex driver. Designed with short or more common ceiling heights in mind. An attempt to trick the ear.
Sony I guess is taking claim once again to attempt to standardize a mixing platform, I don't know...? As mentioned, "atmospheric" mixing is nothing new. A standard playback device for such mixes, that's new.
Interesting none the less...
Cheers...
the way it works is, the receiver has to be certified and have a mic in jack for the special microphone. you then place that mic at your sitting location, and then it calibrates it by sensing the room.
The average consumer barely gets 5.1 correct. I don't think we are really ready for the real Atmos set up in the comfort of our own homes yet. I can't believe this guy said Atmos enabled is better than over head speakers. The physics of it doesn't work. If you want sound in a particular spot, you need a speaker there instead of bouncing it. Sure you'll probably hear some sort of sound bouncing back to you, but is it good sound that you want?
You are wrong, "if you want soudn in a particular spot" no, atmos is more about upwards presence and atmosphere than surgically located sound. He explained it pretty clearly!
Since February or March 2021 four years after I have bought an LG 55-Inch 4K UHD Multi-HDR with Dolby Vision Smart OLED Television I have been saving lots of money for nearly a year on a high-performance/fidelity/quality Dolby Atmos full-on premium home theater moving surround sound loudspeaker system originally one of the two Nakamichi Shockwafe Full-On Premium High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Dolby Atmos Wireless Home Theater Surround Soundbar Systems with Two Big Wireless Subwoofers, A Soundbar with High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Full-Ranger Mid-Range Woofer Drivers On the Front & Tweeters on the Side that Bounce Sound off Walls & Ceiling and Either Two or Four 2-Way Surround Loudspeaker Each with a High Performance/Quality/Fidelity Tweeter & Full-Range Mid-Range Woofer Drivers That can be also used as Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers but after seeing 007 James Bond No Time to Die in 4K RGB Laser Projection for Solid-Good Black Levels Significantly-Increased Contrast Ratios The Best Color Reproduction and Sharper-Detailed Visual-Graphics paired with Dolby Atmos 3D Object-Based Multidimensional Moving Surround Sound at Universal Cinema AMC at CityWalk Hollywood with the vaccinated group from the synagogue Michael who is an expert on & works at home theater said don’t buy a new Dolby Atmos home theater surround sound system just buy high-quality/performance/fidelity loudspeakers with two Dolby Atmos upward-firing height elevation loudspeakers for my Onkyo 7.1 Channel Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Surround Audio-Video Receiver that I owned for 5 and a half years so in November 2021 not only I bought a new microphone eq calibrator for my Atmos Receiver that I owned and printed out new instructions for my Atmos receiver that I have owned but me and my parents went to a Home Theater Store in Los Angeles and bought ourselves a Klipsch 5.1.2 Channel High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Full-On Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Surround Sound Loudspeaker System with Two Klipsch Floorstanding Tower Loudspeakers each paired with a Dolby Atmos upward-firing height elevation loudspeaker all with high quality performance fidelity woofers & tweeters Two Klipsch Biople Loudspeakers all with high quality performance fidelity woofers and tweeters One Klipsch Center Channel Loudspeaker all with high quality performance fidelity woofers and tweeters and One Big 12-Inch Klipsch Subwoofer and in December 2021 and Late-January 2022 all the Klipsch Loudspeakers came in our house and between Early February we hooked up the Onkyo 7.1 Ch Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Surround Audio-Video Receiver to the LG 4K UHD Multi-HDR w/ Dolby Vision Smart TV’s HDMI ARC and started paring the Klipsch Floorstanding Loudspeakers with Two Klipsch Dolby Atmos Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers One Klipsch Center Channel Loudspeaker and One Big 12-Inch Klipsch Subwoofer and works fine Now in Late March Early April 2022 we set up the Klipsch Bipole Loudspeakers and also calibrated the Klipsch+Onkyo 5.1.2 Channel Full-On Premium High-Performance/Quality/Fidelity Premium Dolby Atmos Home Theater Moving Surround Sound Loudspeaker System and it works extremely flawlessly including the Klipsch Dolby Atmos Upward-Firing Height Elevation Loudspeakers. Watching films tv shows and listening to music on my Klipsch+Onkyo 5.1.2 Ch Dolby Atmos Home Theater Moving Surround Sound System sounds way way a lot much better than any Channel-based 5.1 & 7.1 Ch Home Theater Surround Sound Systems when I watch many blockbuster hit films & tv shows all with great action music and sound effects or even listen to music or audiobooks while I am reading the same book I was literally transported and pulled me much deeper inside the story and right in the center of the action i can hear and feel objects flying and moving above I can hear and feel lots of deep powerful bass from the subwoofers and woofers as if I am at a real-life commercial movie theater with ceiling speakers a live concert or a spelling bee but even though some of my tv apps will say the Dolby Atmos logo the tv itself not only does not support Dolby Atmos over HDMI ARC and it would not send output transfer or move any Dolby Atmos signals from the tv to the receiver in order for the receiver to say Dolby Atmos however I not only love Dolby Surround Upmixing Technology which what my Receiver has as in which the Dolby Surround Upmixer is part of the Dolby Atmos Bundle Technology Family but it is my all-time favorite feature on my receiver for watching surround and Atmos content since my tv won’t output or send a Dolby Atmos singal My Dolby Atmos Home Theater Set-Up from Klipsch & Onkyo is a huge difference over any 5.1 & 7.1 Home Theater Surround Set-Ups and it is a lot far way much more better atmospheric three-dimensional cinematic premium higher-end than any 5.1 or 7.1 Channel Home Theater Surround Setups that I can hear lots of sound effects and sound objects moving and flying above the ceiling behind the room around the room beyond the room and through the room in the way the filmmakers: directors & producers the sound team: sound editors/sound mixers/sound designers/sound engineers songwriters song producers musical artists musical bands and the musical-score team: composers conductors or producers, etc intended them to experience and watch those films
What brand of stuff is that at 0:13? Or is it just CGI?
Sorry, bouncing of the ceiling is NOT better.. This is marketing hype. If you can mount in ceiling, you do. The Atmos system in question will make up for any difference in speaker location.. (close/far)
CineTechGeek How exactly is it marketing hype? They sell ceiling speakers as well I believe. Or is it that the enabled speakers are just more expensive?
Steve Last Name Mounting speakers in a ceiling is a lot more expensive than those stand up, just roll a cable on the ground speakers. Atmos is actually spec'ed in cinema to have full range on all speakers.. There is a good reason for that.. Bouncing sound of the ceiling is a HUGE compromise. It kind of works, but in reality its more about making Atmos accessible.. ie making it possible to purchase turn key system like the 5.1 crap system you purchase at CostCo.. (Ie with all the small speakers etc.. on stands..)
CineTechGeek Oh, ok gotcha. That makes sense. Have you heard Atmos in either configuration?
Steve Last Name Obviously I have heard Atmos a number of times.. In terms of home Atmos, no not really, but I have experienced those sound bars that use the same type of bounce of walls audio trick. It does work but obviously the quality of the audio is not good.. Low end bad, mid range not great. but what do you expect, your bouncing the audio of a random surface.
Atmos Cinema goes to great pains to keep all speakers full range with bass management. This makes the sound travel around the room much better with no change in timbre.. Just look at the expense and time they take in setting up a Cinema Atmos room, what makes you think you can drop a few floor standing speakers that also bounce audio of the roof and have it sound any near as good?????
***** Yeah that makes sense. That's a bummer. :)
sounds like a good set of dipoles might accomplish the same effect.
How to set the speakers in the receiver? I have the 5.1.4 dolby atmos config. How to set the speakers? Small or Large? THX
So I guess Bose had it right. I can see 11 901's for this. lol 7.1 is fine by me. You need a large room for this, I prefer the THX version of surround.
Sure but the disadvantage would be the bleeding sound from this tech as not all the sound bounce off the ceiling.
My Mirage speakers have been doing this whole "bounce off the ceiling" thing since 2008 lol that mean I've had Dolby atmos for years?
I plan on getting the Samsung soundbar Q70R. The question is. How can I do the demo like this? Without the RUclips videos? An example is @0:43.
How about quad poles mounted above ear level for the 2 side/rears in your 5.1? There enveloped - thousands of dollars and many holes in your walls and ceilings.
Why not small cheap lightweight up firing speakers you can mount high on the walls and rout the base to the .1? Matched HSQ to bounce off the ceiling, sounds like a waste. Only certain frequencies are directional as he said but only certain frequencies are going to reflect off a ceiling as well. Height speaker needs to be a lightweight speaker you can hang like a painting high on the wall, otherwise few will use it and no media will provide it.
Please could you let us know the manufacturer of the TV stand/enclosure or where I could possibly purchase one??
Great info video thank you
Is atmos Dolby true hd + atmos speaker channels or is it object based audio completely and not just almost enabled speakers
It's object based
@@coleschubert9868 5 years later still didn’t read full question 😂
I still love to listen to my mono vinyl lp's.
they sound awesome, too.
Were sorry, that is an incorrect answer. Please try again later.
Krane why do ppl stick to this vinyl obsession with so much commitment? I’ve been into audio since the early 90’s and it’s always seemed liked hipster sentimentalism. Am I wrong? Also digital sound is far warmer and better than it was a decade or two ago. For example synthesized sample based digital instruments like drums and guitar sound even better than the real thing finally in the recording studio. I used to record to reel to reel 2 inch and then bounce to protools for mixing but the analog is just not necessary anymore imo
@@polarnj
I think that digital audio has a bad reputation because of bad mastering( too loud= clipping or too much noise reduction filters). digital audio can sound as good as analog. just listen to the first cd pressing of brothers in arms by dire straits (the version where there is written " a full digital recording" on the cover. that cd sounds awesome! or the first pressings of Queen is dead by the smiths on rough trade cd. or master of puppets in music for nations cd.
but my mono vinyl records sound really great , too^^
Peace.
Excellent setup Sony LED 32" 7.1 Mini Home theater dts surrounding sound system minimum budget evlo brother?
I love how people get bent out of shape that this costs more money, and that his explanations don't follow "their" logic, and so on. But the reality is...you don't have to buy a bloody damn thing. So if you fall into the camp that this doesn't suite "your" needs, then so be it. But stop yer yapping because this isn't for you. And for those of you living in an apartment complaining about the neighbors above you...seriously, buy yourself a house before even thinking about a home theater.
What about speakers under the floor?
+Daniel • That's what neighbors are for.
There aren't really that many sounds coming from under in real life but atmos would allow you to install subs in ground for a very high end home theater (under your seats for example).
Daniel • well that's a great idea
Daniel • subwoofer is down firing
You can immerse yourself with a good soundbar but what sound imaging?
I think Andrew Jones lied here. Having identical full range speakers all around would be hard to integrate as any frequency below 200hz is highly affected by the room. Using multiple subwoofers to even out room modes is the best way to take care of the low end.
Bose and yamaha speakers both had speakers which are Atmos certified and amps and receivers which are certified and especially that you can move the speakers and bose had them angled so facing up and to the side, now those speakers are worth a mint, now if you really want something special you need to spend around 3K for just a pair of bookshelf powered DSP yamaha speakers and then the amp which is around 20K and then the TV which is around 15K for 8K which none of the home theater amps are set for yet, only 4K so the TV would only be used as a TV and not contact the processor to the amp etc, otherwise its all just a waste of cash, so around 50K like i have said for a real good home theater system all up ?
these floorstanding dolby atmos pioneer speakers aren't even that expensive, i've seen them go for 450 a pair on amazon
I saw Jurassic world when it came out with atmos and I was very impressed
What is that Entertainment center tv stand?? I like it but I can’t find it
I'm looking too! Any luck in finding it???
Now put speakers in the floor and call is dolby 360
That would be the bass driver
Would this work with drop ceilings?
Hi
Can you help me. I need a woofer for bash 300s 300watts what rms and max watts and 12" or 10" .
Thx
And what about DTS's new system !! we got to go and get new kit for that ?? The home electronic's companies are becoming like the clothes companies they want you to keep spending money. Now the bottom has fallen out of 3D they bring out curved screens when that dies it will be something else same with sound.. all good on a techie graph sheet but in the home is it really any better than DTS and TRUE HD ??
But, you don't have to buy anything.
Gene Dellasala at Audioholics never recommends this kind of atmos speaker. He always says that you should always put your atoms speakers in the celing.
I trust him way more then this guy and also Pioneer is way more behind in tec when it comes to recivers. Personaly I have Marantz SR 7012 and Emotiva BasX A-500 for my four atmos.
Upfiring or in ceiling
Your wife is going to love you buying even MORE speakers. not
Bass is only non directional under 80 Hz.
More marketing hype to sell the "enabled" speaker that sits on top of your existing speakers. Common sense, if you want sound from above, mount from above. If you use the enabled set-up, now you are dealing with reflections of frequency responses which is what you are trying to eliminate. Once again, marketing.
andrew jones is badass
2:46 Awesome TV stand. Where can I get that?
fascinating! ! !
Maybe you should try trampoline ceiling maybe it wood work better
where can I find those speakers.
Carlos Ruvalcaba if you got the money many places will accommodate you
I think there is a lot of BS
we have two ears, some how these ears can distingiush distance , direction etc of sound source
so in the end with two speakers reflecting what two micriphones hear we should get th eright image
What TV stand is that?
Samsung or sharp
This is total BS. you are better off with angled and ceiling speakers.
wish I had house to build a sound system. In my studio flat, I'm stuck with headphones
Which is why they now make systems for any size room. Bose cubes broke that limitation back in the 90s.
what to do if you have vaulted ceilings?
2:22
+Tim de schipper I appreciate the reply but that just says vaulted ceilings won't work
Scott Winy if the bouncing effect is impossible to achieve then you have to install speakers on the ceiling. normal regular fullrange speakers will do. the speakers for the atmoseffect are not cheap and is made for bouncing off, do not hang them up if you have bought them allready. on the site from dolby atmos are all possible setups reviewed with schematics for every setup. you can even download a free pdf with a 36 paged document about all the things possible with numbers and degrees for putting everything in exact position.
+Tim de schipper excellent thanks I haven't purchased the atmos speakers yet. I'm concerned with the ideal placement of the in ceiling units. Since they'll be at separate heights (in a 4 speaker atmos setup). I'm also concerned with the timing. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to buy an spl meter and hopefully my processor will let me calibrate the atmos setup - as they do the rest of my speakers. Hopefully a spec exists on this subject
Thanks Tim
there are solutions for this:
forum.beoworld.org/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.UserFiles/00.00.01.62.42/13128746_5F00_10156830842820433_5F00_1399318225_5F00_o.jpg
or this:
qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-27df61365e872f05ec8e6e37d9ad78a2?convert_to_webp=true
both are easily made cheap if you choose wood and do it yourself, my ceiling is very high, 2m50 is way too high for some effects, the sound can be biased. thats your first problem, choosing the height for comfortable sound. the first pic is easily made, i would say 2 arms for 4 speakers around 60 dollar. the second is a support but you will need to drill holes. another option, propably the best solution is a combination. find the right height for your speakers in the air, then you can support them with cables so they float above you:
www.lightingstyles.co.uk/pics/100/Variable_Width_Tension_Wire_Spotlight_Wide.jpg
think of a loudspeaker instead a light ;)
this one last pic is also a great idea:
ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413AQ4hkvuL.jpg
all of this should help you in making a nice setup. make a vid and post it when ready!
What if the ceiling is 12ft.?
rainmakr20 get a trampoline ceiling
Sounds to bounce back. . ? That's. Bull ,
That's not. What the sound engineer intended .
j 6815 J sound always bounces back .. it depends how and where it bounces, to sound good.
Nooooo! I like it with a subwoofer and ceiling speakers... but if you have a small room than you can use a bouncing affect. which I agree with them
I'd rather watch a movie on my soundbar with good soundtrack then watch a Atmos movie on my 5.2.4 setup with a bad soundtrack!"
Conclusion; .
Don't worry so much if you haven't got a full atmos setup, it's far more enjoyable to choose a movie with a good soundtrack!
"up firing speakers sound better than in ceiling" ~ said no one ever (unless you're selling them).
Have you heard of calibration - distance, angle etc...Wow what a BS. Create a hype based on some logic, people are smarter than you think, give some credit to your buyers - they're not that dumb
This is a joke.. I'd prefer DTS Neural X and use my 7.2 setup - more freedom, less on money and better effect.
which is you setup 7.2?
Atmos works just fine in a 5.1 to 7.1 setting...using the high quality speakers you already have...i've tested it with what i have and it's mind blowing...upgrade to Atmos speakers if u want to, but it's not a must have...my 2 cents
And how many DVD,s have been produced so you hear the helicopter coming from your right back and is coming to land in the right front? Its like a DVD 7.1 or 2 - I ahve a lot of DVD.s, but today only ONE DVD 7.2, but hundreds of 5.1. If you like to get your sounsystem sound like "kakofoni" - buy Atmos.
I'm looking for a new AV receiver but haven't bought one in about 25 years
I've heard atmos and it sounds awesome what else should I look for in s modern AV receiver???
If you haven't bought already, the things you should include are Dolby HD, at least 6 hdmi ports, Internet connectivity, Spotify, adequate power (100 WPC at least), 5.1 surround, blue tooth and DLNA. Good brands: Onkyo, Yamaha, Marantz, Denon. Buy only from authorized dealers or you will not have a warranty. Good online vendor: Accessories4less. Consider a refurbished unit or B stock to save money. Hope this helps.
I agree Ted except for the refurbished unit. I would pass on that unless it was ultra high end and i say this because most lower to mid ranged gear are throw away items these days at the best of times and at least by buying something new the chances are better at getting a lifespan out of it which would be decent especially if its his first time in 25 years.But on a whole i think you gave him great advice.
I call bullshit on this.
Bouncing sounds are NEVER ideal, no matter what anybody says.
Would you bounce sound to another room or actually put speakers in there like a normal person, same with the ceiling speakers. It doesn't make any sense minor exception with soundbars cause everyone knows they are a simple way of great sound.