I notice a pretty substantial difference in 12.0 vs Forge 12.0 on my Quik Lok Trimmer/brush cutter. It almost never bogs down and despite being the same Amp/Hr it seems to last longer as well.
Where's the five amp hour battery you're talking about? Maybe they'll show it later. But it seems to me like they're comparing an 8.0 versus a 12. What is special about the five?
don’t believe everything you see on torque test channel because when it comes to real world use they perform way different. for instance they claim the dewalt dcf 961 to be the “strongest cordless high torque” but in real world use it struggles a bit more than the milwaukee 2967 😂
@@austinnile6639 i’m a field in service technician for CAT and i own both so majority of what we repair/take apart requires large amounts of torque. the milwaukee 2967 doesn’t struggle when it comes to the bigger bolts (32mm-44mm) the dewalt struggles or in some cases hesitant whereas milwaukee gets straight to business. don’t get me wrong the 961 is good but when in real world use in the heavy machine equipment industry the dewalt just falls behind. love the 891 mid torque from dewalt tho, plenty of power for a mid torque
@haroldjones12 that's why you gotta look at the dynamic curves on ttc it shows the 2967 with a forge has some of the highest initial torque of any gun out there. The 961 is only stronger at the top end when it kicks the second set of planetarys in for that vtec effect
@@samuelvanlane in real world use the “vtec” is useless for the dewalt. and i know cs i own the 961 and was expecting big things from it but when it comes to field in service your tools have to be able to withstand the constant beat and usage which paying nearly $400 bare tool for the dewalt was a waste of money in my case cs it did not last 2 months of hard use
Vents at bottom worry me, wonder how that'll hold up over time, i place my tools with battery as its platform as sometimes there is oil or water on ground and battery usually costs more than the tool so
I worked maintenance at a chemical plant and we primarily used Milwaukee's 3/4" Fuel Brushless high torque impact and a few of the high torque 1/2" that you used there. The difference between the high torque 1/2" and 3/4" is very noticeable in favor of the 3/4". I'm curious if you have the 3/4" to compare it with those new batteries...
I hope TTC tests this; in theory it should be a noticeable increase as you stated (more spinning mass relates to greater ft/lbs of torque) as the output in amperage is increased
I love your videos, I watch them all the time, BUT testing a regular 5.0 vs a forge 12 was totally pointless because a regular 12 beats the pants off a 5.0
Yes i do not use rapid chargers as they tend to kill battery life faster than slow charging, same with my new iphonei just use low watt cable chargers no fast charging for me ever! Id rather buy more batteries!
What I am curious about, is why they didn’t use lithium pouch cells like they do in the 6.0 Forge.? From my understanding lithium pouch cells don’t need rebalancing like lithium cylindrical cells do which is a known issue in the standard 12.0 M18 batteries.
From what I’ve read.. the tabless is more efficient than the pouch. It releases its electrons faster and with less heat. The article I read stated that they thought the pouch was the way to go (look at DeWalt with their pouch and now an 8Ah tabless) but discovered that tabless was better… I’d expect a 4Ah tabless in our future. Ridgid and Ryobi both have them. Just a matter of time until Milwaukee drops one (TTI being the parent company). It of course will be similar to the 3Ah HighOutput, which is more powerful than their stalwart 5Ah. I’m just speculating.😊
During the last pipeline event, the rep said that cylindrical cells are easier to cool and allow for a better form factor then pouch. Cooler batteries have a much longer life, and maybe they figured out the load balancing on the tables. Also, maybe, they don't really want the batteries to last forever... Optimally, they would run issue free for warranty +6 months or so
Going away from the pouch is probably a better idea. I understand they don’t deal well with heat and longevity. Swell too much and potentially more dangerous.
@@brianhall9019Have the RIDGID 4 AMP MAX OUTPUT EXP and the RYOBI EDGE BATTERY Both are Nice and keep up and BEAT there Bigger 8 AMP 21700 cells BROTHERS
Are you sure about the 8.0Ah Forge putting out the same amount of amps as the 12.0Ah Forge? In the Milwaukee PWR ratings chart, they rank the 12 Forge as PWR5 and the 8 Forge and 6 Forge as PWR4 (same 12 Ah High Output). This would make sense since the 12 Forge has 3 rows of tabless cells, presumably the same cells used in the 8, just 1 more row of them.
It would have been nice to see comparisons with the very high draw tools, and compare these to the 6AH forge. I'll say that the 6AH forge is a significant improvement in raw grunt power on the 14 inch top handle chainsaw compared to both the 8 and 12 AH high outputs. The 8 AH HO stalls trivially easily in comparison. Similar for the new 6.5 inch circular saw. It simply doesn't bog down with the forge while the 8 AH HO can start to chug if you hit a knot or the cut isn't perfectly straight.
@@yolo_burrito They don't. The 8 and 12AH forges have even higher sustained outputs than the 6AH pouch forge. I've borrowed and tried the 8 and 12AH forges recently and they were slightly better. I can't really comment on whether that's the 8 and 12AH batteries maxing out a little bit higher than the 6AH one, or if they had a lot of headroom and I was maxing out the top handle chainsaw, but either way they are at least marginally higher output. I'll probably not bother with buying my own 8 or 12AH forges for the time being because a pair of 6AH ones is fine for me, and you definitely feel the weight difference when you're stretching to your arm's length. For the performance difference, I feel like having the lighter tool and keeping a spare battery nearby is better.
Purely anecdotal, but with the dual batt leaf blower, the difference in voltage sag between a pair of 12.0 HDs and 12.0 Forges is considerable from my experience. This is especially noticeable at the end of the battery’s lifecycle. There’s a slow sag with the HDs whereas the Forges will maintain power and RPM until they abruptly stop. Similar experience with my track saw.
Although it's a cool (no pun intended) animation they have to demonstrate the cooling; it genuinely wouldn't be a bad idea for people to get themselves a set of 120mm fans (they often go by 'home entertainment cooling' monikers etc.) and have them simply sit or stationed above the respective batteries. From hearing the sound by the mic, (imo) they aren't fast enough, they're providing a good amount of passive airflow but if they're being charged in an environment that's already warm; effectively having a larger set of cooling that'll help continue to exhaust the heat - is not a bad idea, more so atleast to prolong the lifespan if possible
There are minor dimension and weight differences, but they are effectively the same size and weight. Same with the Forge 8.0 and normal 8.0. The Forge 6.0 is in between the XC 5.0 and 8.0.
I use the 12 forge when im setting anchors . I can run my hammer drill for a good while and have full use out of the vaccuum. The 12hds are a let down and keep fucking up and became unbalanced
The M18 stick edger literally killed my 9.0 Lithium (only charges to 3 bars now), got the 12.0 Lithium Forge and now I'm good to go. They tried to rip me off at Home Depot when I ordered it online by giving me the regular non-Forge 12.0 and I'd recommend anyone doing the same to check their battery before leaving the store to make sure it says "FORGE".
Always have felt the rapid chargers kill the m18 batteries. I’ve got multiple m18 batteries 3 or 4 years old dead. Makita has used the air cooled bs forever now. I’ve got 8 year old Makita batteries that work great still
Octane used software tricks that other brands didn't to allow the cells to run past their rated limits if conditions allowed. Tabless cells are objectively better batteries
Battery’s straight off the charger always have more power than a battery that has not been charged in a few days facts if you’re gonna do a test, at least make it even.
The super charger is so super that it CAN’T super charge both batteries at once! I’m sorry I know the batteries and the charger are really good if not awesome, but saying that your charger isn’t strong enough to charge both batteries at full power simultaneously, and then spinning that weakness as a ”feature” (power share or shift) or whatever they call it, is just insulting. Clearly they think that we’re not smart enough to see what they doing! Hey Milwaukee, you legitimately make great tools and batteries, just sell them on their great points don’t try to insult our intelligence by thinking that we don’t understand what you’re doing when you’re spinning a weakness into a “feature.” Also why was the new super charger only compared to the old rapid charger and not the old super charger hmm? Was it because its advertised performance was identical with that of the old one? What’s really frustrating about this one is even though the advertised performance for both super chargers was the same, the new one has proven to be faster then the old one even on older batteries! So why insult us with power share/shift and then under sell its charging rates? I know they’re both under TTI but it’s just like Ryobi sending all the reviewers a review/test kit (my words) which contain the same two tools and two batteries to test and compare against one another. Obviously one of the batteries is the new edge, and the other? A standard 4AH NON HP battery. Why? I’ve seen some tests that show the edge to be even better than the HP so why not include that? Frustrating! My apologies for the rant!
Seems like a kind of worthless test to me. The "high output" batteries blew the old dinosaur XC 5ah batteries away in every kind of test too. Only thing worth comparing to me is the high output vs forge batteries. The old XC batteries are so old and out of date, I don't think most people have bought them in years.
The real test here isnt the 5.0 vs forge 12ah, its the hd 12ah vs forge 12ah. Which btw theres a notable difference especially in thermals
I notice a pretty substantial difference in 12.0 vs Forge 12.0 on my Quik Lok Trimmer/brush cutter. It almost never bogs down and despite being the same Amp/Hr it seems to last longer as well.
Where's the five amp hour battery you're talking about? Maybe they'll show it later. But it seems to me like they're comparing an 8.0 versus a 12. What is special about the five?
Never mind, lol I watched long enough to realize what you were talking about.
Test the 6.0 forage battery against the 8.0 and 12.0 forage!
Torque test channel gonna have a field day
don’t believe everything you see on torque test channel because when it comes to real world use they perform way different. for instance they claim the dewalt dcf 961 to be the “strongest cordless high torque” but in real world use it struggles a bit more than the milwaukee 2967 😂
@@haroldjones12i own the 961 out the gate at first the 2967 hits faster but overall top end power the 961 tops it just a lil i used both honestly
@@austinnile6639 i’m a field in service technician for CAT and i own both so majority of what we repair/take apart requires large amounts of torque. the milwaukee 2967 doesn’t struggle when it comes to the bigger bolts (32mm-44mm) the dewalt struggles or in some cases hesitant whereas milwaukee gets straight to business. don’t get me wrong the 961 is good but when in real world use in the heavy machine equipment industry the dewalt just falls behind. love the 891 mid torque from dewalt tho, plenty of power for a mid torque
@haroldjones12 that's why you gotta look at the dynamic curves on ttc it shows the 2967 with a forge has some of the highest initial torque of any gun out there. The 961 is only stronger at the top end when it kicks the second set of planetarys in for that vtec effect
@@samuelvanlane in real world use the “vtec” is useless for the dewalt. and i know cs i own the 961 and was expecting big things from it but when it comes to field in service your tools have to be able to withstand the constant beat and usage which paying nearly $400 bare tool for the dewalt was a waste of money in my case cs it did not last 2 months of hard use
Vents at bottom worry me, wonder how that'll hold up over time, i place my tools with battery as its platform as sometimes there is oil or water on ground and battery usually costs more than the tool so
It's waterproof
I worked maintenance at a chemical plant and we primarily used Milwaukee's 3/4" Fuel Brushless high torque impact and a few of the high torque 1/2" that you used there. The difference between the high torque 1/2" and 3/4" is very noticeable in favor of the 3/4". I'm curious if you have the 3/4" to compare it with those new batteries...
I hope TTC tests this; in theory it should be a noticeable increase as you stated (more spinning mass relates to greater ft/lbs of torque) as the output in amperage is increased
Did Milwaukee solve the unbalance issues of M18 high output? Mine only charges half now.
Where did you get that kit?
I love your videos, I watch them all the time, BUT testing a regular 5.0 vs a forge 12 was totally pointless because a regular 12 beats the pants off a 5.0
Can you charge the Forge batteries using a regular charger ?
Yes it's still the same voltage and charging mode.
Yes, you can charge them with a regular charger.
Yes i do not use rapid chargers as they tend to kill battery life faster than slow charging, same with my new iphonei just use low watt cable chargers no fast charging for me ever! Id rather buy more batteries!
Wait, why no comparison to the forge 6.0 and or a regular battery of comparable capacity?
What I am curious about, is why they didn’t use lithium pouch cells like they do in the 6.0 Forge.? From my understanding lithium pouch cells don’t need rebalancing like lithium cylindrical cells do which is a known issue in the standard 12.0 M18 batteries.
From what I’ve read.. the tabless is more efficient than the pouch. It releases its electrons faster and with less heat. The article I read stated that they thought the pouch was the way to go (look at DeWalt with their pouch and now an 8Ah tabless) but discovered that tabless was better… I’d expect a 4Ah tabless in our future. Ridgid and Ryobi both have them. Just a matter of time until Milwaukee drops one (TTI being the parent company). It of course will be similar to the 3Ah HighOutput, which is more powerful than their stalwart 5Ah. I’m just speculating.😊
During the last pipeline event, the rep said that cylindrical cells are easier to cool and allow for a better form factor then pouch. Cooler batteries have a much longer life, and maybe they figured out the load balancing on the tables. Also, maybe, they don't really want the batteries to last forever... Optimally, they would run issue free for warranty +6 months or so
it's a cost thing.
Going away from the pouch is probably a better idea. I understand they don’t deal well with heat and longevity. Swell too much and potentially more dangerous.
@@brianhall9019Have the RIDGID 4 AMP MAX OUTPUT EXP and the RYOBI EDGE BATTERY Both are Nice and keep up and BEAT there Bigger 8 AMP 21700 cells BROTHERS
Are you sure about the 8.0Ah Forge putting out the same amount of amps as the 12.0Ah Forge? In the Milwaukee PWR ratings chart, they rank the 12 Forge as PWR5 and the 8 Forge and 6 Forge as PWR4 (same 12 Ah High Output). This would make sense since the 12 Forge has 3 rows of tabless cells, presumably the same cells used in the 8, just 1 more row of them.
Now I already have the last model super charger will those the times be same as the new super charger?
It would have been nice to see comparisons with the very high draw tools, and compare these to the 6AH forge.
I'll say that the 6AH forge is a significant improvement in raw grunt power on the 14 inch top handle chainsaw compared to both the 8 and 12 AH high outputs. The 8 AH HO stalls trivially easily in comparison. Similar for the new 6.5 inch circular saw. It simply doesn't bog down with the forge while the 8 AH HO can start to chug if you hit a knot or the cut isn't perfectly straight.
Good to know. I was wondering the same thing for my top-handle saw. Would be cool to see the new ones tested.
6.0 forge have pouch cells and probably do better than the Tabless cylindrical cells of the 8 and 12 forge.
@@yolo_burrito They don't. The 8 and 12AH forges have even higher sustained outputs than the 6AH pouch forge. I've borrowed and tried the 8 and 12AH forges recently and they were slightly better. I can't really comment on whether that's the 8 and 12AH batteries maxing out a little bit higher than the 6AH one, or if they had a lot of headroom and I was maxing out the top handle chainsaw, but either way they are at least marginally higher output.
I'll probably not bother with buying my own 8 or 12AH forges for the time being because a pair of 6AH ones is fine for me, and you definitely feel the weight difference when you're stretching to your arm's length. For the performance difference, I feel like having the lighter tool and keeping a spare battery nearby is better.
@@KelvinGreyheart good to know thanks. I have the top handle saw too and I’d rather have less weight and more power.
Are the foges 12.0 good to get if want to use blower, trimmer and lights a lot?
Purely anecdotal, but with the dual batt leaf blower, the difference in voltage sag between a pair of 12.0 HDs and 12.0 Forges is considerable from my experience. This is especially noticeable at the end of the battery’s lifecycle. There’s a slow sag with the HDs whereas the Forges will maintain power and RPM until they abruptly stop. Similar experience with my track saw.
can you test the 1" d-handle with the 12.0 forge vs normal 12.0?
That one has a huge reset spring it probably benefits the most
Although it's a cool (no pun intended) animation they have to demonstrate the cooling; it genuinely wouldn't be a bad idea for people to get themselves a set of 120mm fans (they often go by 'home entertainment cooling' monikers etc.) and have them simply sit or stationed above the respective batteries. From hearing the sound by the mic, (imo) they aren't fast enough, they're providing a good amount of passive airflow but if they're being charged in an environment that's already warm; effectively having a larger set of cooling that'll help continue to exhaust the heat - is not a bad idea, more so atleast to prolong the lifespan if possible
Is there a size difference between the Forge 12.0 and the older 12.0?
There are minor dimension and weight differences, but they are effectively the same size and weight. Same with the Forge 8.0 and normal 8.0. The Forge 6.0 is in between the XC 5.0 and 8.0.
Nice now if ONLY they could come out with a KIT SUPER FAST DUEL RAPID CHARGER with the 8 AMP FORGE BATTERY FOR ABOUT $379
HD has this for $349 with an extra 8ah forge
Another content creator on RUclips tested the Forge against the HO in the16" chainsaw; and the HO had more power; but the Forge ran cooler and longer.
I use the 12 forge when im setting anchors . I can run my hammer drill for a good while and have full use out of the vaccuum. The 12hds are a let down and keep fucking up and became unbalanced
So more vent holes equals less materials used, but at triple the cost over an already crazy amount of money! Cp>hd>xc
The 6.0 forge charges on 15 mins, and no oneever talks about it any more, i use it way more than the bigger forges.
should have tested between the 6ah forge to the new ones
The M18 stick edger literally killed my 9.0 Lithium (only charges to 3 bars now), got the 12.0 Lithium Forge and now I'm good to go. They tried to rip me off at Home Depot when I ordered it online by giving me the regular non-Forge 12.0 and I'd recommend anyone doing the same to check their battery before leaving the store to make sure it says "FORGE".
Always have felt the rapid chargers kill the m18 batteries. I’ve got multiple m18 batteries 3 or 4 years old dead. Makita has used the air cooled bs forever now. I’ve got 8 year old Makita batteries that work great still
Thanks for another great video brother.
What kit number is this
This is Milwaukee's version of the rigid octane battery.
Octane used software tricks that other brands didn't to allow the cells to run past their rated limits if conditions allowed. Tabless cells are objectively better batteries
The octane was never like this battery.
400 cycles vs 1200 cycles. 1 year warranty vs 3 year. Thats enough for me
The best way to test would be using the chainsaw
Battery’s straight off the charger always have more power than a battery that has not been charged in a few days facts if you’re gonna do a test, at least make it even.
The super charger is so super that it CAN’T super charge both batteries at once! I’m sorry I know the batteries and the charger are really good if not awesome, but saying that your charger isn’t strong enough to charge both batteries at full power simultaneously, and then spinning that weakness as a ”feature” (power share or shift) or whatever they call it, is just insulting. Clearly they think that we’re not smart enough to see what they doing! Hey Milwaukee, you legitimately make great tools and batteries, just sell them on their great points don’t try to insult our intelligence by thinking that we don’t understand what you’re doing when you’re spinning a weakness into a “feature.” Also why was the new super charger only compared to the old rapid charger and not the old super charger hmm? Was it because its advertised performance was identical with that of the old one? What’s really frustrating about this one is even though the advertised performance for both super chargers was the same, the new one has proven to be faster then the old one even on older batteries! So why insult us with power share/shift and then under sell its charging rates?
I know they’re both under TTI but it’s just like Ryobi sending all the reviewers a review/test kit (my words) which contain the same two tools and two batteries to test and compare against one another. Obviously one of the batteries is the new edge, and the other? A standard 4AH NON HP battery. Why? I’ve seen some tests that show the edge to be even better than the HP so why not include that? Frustrating!
My apologies for the rant!
Aren’t we in the age of things getting smaller and smaller ? Milwaukee be like hold my beer …..drops a car battery next. Ridiculous
Gimmick. Milwaukee went from being the best there is to a DIY brand from 2021-2022.
Don't think them vents on the battery are a good idea. Dirt, grease or sawdust will plug them up.
Air gun go brrr
Seems like a kind of worthless test to me. The "high output" batteries blew the old dinosaur XC 5ah batteries away in every kind of test too. Only thing worth comparing to me is the high output vs forge batteries. The old XC batteries are so old and out of date, I don't think most people have bought them in years.
What a waste of a review. Why test against mediocre battery? Couldn't be more disappointed.