MoFi-gate in Layman’s Terms. MoFi Controversy Explained & Take Away
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- My other Channel “Heavy Rotation”
/ @noblerecords-heavyrot...
Other, other channel “Find This Record”
/ @findthisrecord6586
Buy Coffee Mugs, Shirts, Hats:
www.merch.nobl...
Discogs:
www.discogs.co...
Email:
Noblerecordstore@gmail.com
Follow us on Instagram:
/ noblerecords
Facebook:
/ noblerecordstore
Check out our Podcast: “Vinyl Biography”
itunes.apple.c...
For email inquiries:
Noblerecordstore@gmail.com
Contact by mail:
11500 E Independence Blvd
Unit F
Matthews, NC 28105
Videos Referenced:
Mike’s 1st Video:
ruclips.net/video/CtJRis-Ba1Q/видео.html
Interview with MoFi:
ruclips.net/video/shg0780YgAE/видео.html
Stop buying stolen records from current and former employees. They are not getting discounts. Employee purchases are kept tracked in system. Don't be on the receiving end of stolen merch dummy🤣
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management.
@@ezzzraabarro9544 True. I experienced that nonsense many times. Jim punched a hole through the drywall because he was charged 12 dollars by mistake from FedEX. Who is that desperate to stay with a company with such controversy and such a dismissal to staffs feelings.
I learned this a long time ago. Unless it's explicitly stated that the record was cut completely analog there is a digital step somewhere in the process. It has been like that for decades now.
I was aware of this as well. Never bothered me
Mofi public relations was telling people their One Steps were analog only, no digital steps at any point in the process.
@@batman.darthmaul Yeah people were lied to and there mad, as they should be. But also maybe if you shouldn't trust PR people since they're professional liars.
@@batman.darthmaul Telling people where? How? Can you provide it?
@@OwlsRNotWhatTheySeem If you were to email their customer service (back in May), as I did, Mofi specifically claimed there was no digital step at any point in the mastering process. Their first response to me was, "All of the Eagles one-step releases are mastered directly from the original analog master tapes." To clarify further, I emailed back asking for confirmation there was no digital step at any point in the process, to which they responded, yes, that's correct.
It's not the digital aspect of this that bothers me, it's the dishonesty. Particularly in the audiophile sphere and at this price point. I'm still keeping my pre-order of the Thriller One Step.
you are right, and on all video channels nobody gets it, quality is great ok but they LIED, nothing mentioned in the one-step leaf about any DD WHY?? and why the price was double ?? cause they lied and rider on analogue d..cks
@@oldskool1979 Even Paul from PS Audio has admitted that DSD recordings sounds better on vinyl than SACD. And I have to agree with him.
I agree Buck. I feel the same way. Also gonna keep my Thriller pre-order though. This might very well impact my future purchases though.
@@oldskool1979 Yep, Walmart $5 CD bin is my new friend.
Why are you keeping your pre-order? I know a lot of people are doing this, but I feel that doing so won’t help with driving change from MOFI and other companies if they see that they can still get away with being dishonest with the consumer and it won’t affect their bottom line.
My takeaway. The "audiophiles" who swore up and down that they could tell the difference between digital and analog with their super sonic hearing..... actually can't.
To a large extent that is true (placebo effect for them). With that said, I have records that sound better than the CD and visa versa.
We're all deceived on some level in some aspect in our lives. It's about recognizing the beam in your own eye instead of the splinter in someone else's.
Indeed
@@Big-J-8579 this is true!
you actually can though
Audiophiles buy records to listen to their gear. Record collectors buy records to listen to the music
I love listening to records and prefer older and original pressings. I also love finding records I had as a kid at half price books or goodwill and plopping them down on the record player.
A laid back explanation is what we need! Thank you sir!
To set the record straight, it was Mike from 45 RPM Audiophile who started asking the questions. Mike from The In Groove responded with more questions. But let’s give credit where credit is due.
This is my understanding as well.
@SpamMullet That too!
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
@@ezzzraabarro9544 🙀 If any of that is true, someone needs to step forward. Wow 😯
@@dannyfannyfoodle It is true. I worked there for 10 years. Jim is out of control. Staff is timid and afraid to lose their jobs.
A few things.
MOFI are not sorry for years of misleading customers, they are sorry their practice came to light.
The controversy is almost entirely about the cost of MOFI records, not the quality of the records. If they cost $30-40 like they should be and always should have been, nobody would care. Lots of people have spent over $100 for their records based on misleading advertising and understanding of what they purchased. This was also fueled by MOFI's limited pressings which has always driven me nuts. If there is an appetite for thousands upon thousands of purchases, then they should have always been pressing records indefinitely at $30-40 a pop instead of limited runs at $100+.
The vinyl community are just as much to blame as MOFI. No new pressing should ever cost $125, ESPECIALLY if it's of a common record. MOFI understandably capitalized on the insane second-hand market pricing that was set by people who were willing to spend way more than was necessary to obtain a fantastic sounding record. RUclips thumbnails of a person holding a MOFI record are "do not click" for me. When $10-20 VG+ OG copies of records are available on the open market, spending $125 just seems completely asinine to me. $125 for Thriller, Abraxas, and Van Halen? You kidding me?
There has never been any doubt in my mind that digital can sound as good as analog during the mastering process. I do prefer vinyl as a playback medium over digital including CD and streaming, and that should almost always be the discussion. Great mastering is great mastering. I am not offended that MOFI records sound amazing even now knowing that there is digital in the chain and hope to actually own some at a reasonable price some day, as long as I don't already own an OG.
Nobody who owns MOFI should go out and sell them out of frustration. MOFI's pricing strategy must change, and I expect the $125 model is destroyed.
👍 Yep, it's more egregious when considering the One-Step releases to date due to additional claims and due to much higher LP costs.
I agree. When I heard Thriller was coming out I laughed. You mean the easily had, less than 20 dollars, already GREAT sounding record?
@@TheHSIHP Exactly! When I heard about Thriller, I thought 'are people really going to pay a stratosphere price for probably the most easily obtainable OG out there?'
You nailed this. If they're using a digital copy of the master, why only print a limited number? It's intentional inflation of the value through a fake limitation of supply.
@@continentalgin the answer is yes!
I was involved with a vinyl reissue a couple years ago where the master was lost and we were forced to use the CD as a master. We were very meticulous with how we ripped the music and kept everything during remastering and manufacturing at a very high bit rate. The end result is a very superior product to the original CD. Sometimes, it’s just not an option to use the original master, but steps can be taken in the mastering and manufacturing process to maximize the potential of the audio and still make a really pleasing sounding vinyl with all the benefits of an analog domain.
I just listened to the music for the last 65 years ! In my dark and dreary past I tried my hand at band management, record producer and newspaper publisher! All I can say about this mofi thing is if you like the music then buy it if you don’t forget it no body is forcing you to buy it. I like the original sound of the music so I don’t buy many mofi recordings but the ones I do I enjoy! Couldn’t care less how it was made, who mastered it, where it was pressed or how it was mastered! The important thing to comment on is that tee shirt and coffee mug, fantastic gotta find you store and order them! Good video keep up the great work!
I expect a digital transfer at some point in the chain for almost all new records. It's easier for companies to do it now, so this didn't surprise me.
6:30 yeah I was suspicious about that. I only have one Mofi title "Surrealistic Pillow" 2XLP mono 45pm it's sounds amazing. I don't really care if there was a digital step. I bought it for MSRP though. I have original RCA copies too. It was fun to compare.
What we don't expect is companies not being honest about it
This is purely about mis-selling of MOFI products to us all. Their business practices have opened them up to losing a significant proportion of their previously loyal customer base and possible class action-type lawsuits. The high quality sound engineering is not disputed. Trust has been lost and that will be difficult to recover.
No, no, no, yes, and no.
You still think consumer power is a thing? Companies will keep fucking you over and they will never change as long as we still live in a capitalist society. People don’t matter, profit does!
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
The owner Jim Davis is known for punching holes in the walls, kicking doors, smashing computer monitors. He also keeps the low numbers #001 to #099 of each SACD and vinyl release by MOFI. He hoards them in order to resell on secondary market for higher. Asshole company
I hope some of these audiophiles with deep pockets go after MoFi. It's the dishonesty that hurts. I'll never buy their products again.
The MOFI banner Original Master Recording is not what we thought it meant.
Folks feel deceived. That's not good for the company.
Mike's interview is to be commended on many levels.
I agree with your take on this.
Yeah, "original master recording" should mean original master recording
Mike, the 45 RPM German guy, said it best... any record starts with an Original Master Recording. They ALL start that way.
just read the one step leaf if you have....pure lie :))) I don't care if it has a digital step and that's why its sounds great its okay, just LET ME KNOW as a consumer I have rights
A digital file from the master tape is still from the master tape. Spoiler alert: Any LP you buy is not a master recording either.
@@gordonshumway7465 All LPs, CDs, SACDs, cassettes, reel-to-reel, or whatever you're streaming, started with, somewhere down the 'chain,' an original master recording. So, you wouldn't be wrong saying whatever you're playing had an original master recording as its source. If you want to be transparent and honest, you would say how many dubs, copies, and digital files there were in the 'chain.'
"Dad jokes coming out the wazzoo"! Great description of that conversation. I pretty much saw it the same way you did. While I commend Mike for doing what he did, I was surprised he didn't at least have a list of questions at his side to make sure he got more specific answers. There are still a lot of unanswered questions here.
Totally agree.
Great observations Dylan. However, this whole saga has not been great for Mofi’s brand and reputation
@@leonardfreeman7218 MoFi don't give af. They will be fine.
This is my opinion. First, its obviously printed on the majority of their release, Original Master Recordings. Secondly, we pay a LOT of money to get just that, analog to analog pressings to play in our analog systems. So, if thats NOT what we are getting, then thats false advertising.
I'm with you...I'm an OG collector. All of my records put out before 1980 are pure analog, so there you go. I recently dug out an original pressing of the first Pretenders album, and it blew my socks off. Sure there were a few minor scuffs, but the dynamics were amazing. I'm not going to drop big bucks on a MoFi version if the original makes me happy. I wasn't planning on buying the Michael Jackson Thriller One-Step anyway just because it doesn't fall into records that I like. When that album came out I had to hear it everywhere I went...and I was into stuff like Alice Cooper, the Stooges and Bowie, not Michael Jackson. Just one grumpy old man's opinion...
Good shout. You can pick up a NM UK 1st of that Pretenders record for like 15 quid anyway!
Yep, and the OG thriller sounds better than any new that I have heard. Interested in seeing how the one step will sound, but I won't drop that kind of money for new pressing.
I think you were spot on with this Dillon I feel like I got the answers from their lack of seriousness coupled with the quick explanation about shipping their equipment out there, making a digital copy of the original tapes, and then bringing them back to master. I just wish they could be more honest AND people could be more forgiving as well. 1/2 the time that is why we never get to good, open resolutions.
Well, they wouldn't have benefitted really by being overly serious and contrite. The worst I can say is they were a little smug as in "we are the experts and you don't need to question everything we do." However, their explanation of why they made a digital copy of some tapes satisfied me. There is no way the human ear could tell the difference between a high-res digital copy of the tape and the tape itself. In fact, many tapes probably couldn't produce a playback sound as good. It's somewhat of an existential crises for those who pay top dollar for ostensibly the best analogue vinyl copy. They have to ask themselves: Are these vinyl editions actually noticeably different from a high-res CD version? Also, the quality of playback depends on one's system. If one is better set up for vinyl, then probably vinyl will sound better. Ultimately, I think the main reason people should buy vinyl is for the overall experience plus the endless tinkering it inspires. There's no way that vinyl always sounds better than CDs.
@@MrKelleyzinho That was the word I was looking for , smug. For me, it was so bad it made me want to never buy another MoFi. It really left me cold towards the company regardless of whether their albums sound good or not.
@@MrKelleyzinho I can agree with some of what you just wrote, but "a high-res CD version" makes little sense to me, and vinyl so VERY often sounds better to me than a CD (I have great hearing, and good system btw), a high res disc would be an SACD or a DVD-A, and the late arrivals of audio Blu-ray discs.
CD is (only) 16/44khz, not considered high res, but can sound very fine. Like I said I agree with your point, other than stating CDs are high res.
@@rockrecordreport7136 The DSD digital copy of the master tape that Mo Fi uses is super high res and, therefore (I think) captures all of the information on the tape. But some people have noted that digital audio always adds artifacts and distortion not found on the tape. I think it's getting harder and harder to extract the information from the original tapes even though MoFi uses some kind of advanced electronic tape machine to do so. So I see why it might be necessary and, in fact, preferable to capture it digitally. It's like what the National Archives here in DC has done for a lot of analogue tapes. The question I have is, what if MoFi just came out and made the case for this digital transfer process when they started to do it back around 2008 or so? Would analogue purists have accepted it then? They must have thought not or they wouldn't have neglected to explain it. In the end, I think the complete analogue chain is more of a "purity test" than something that actually makes a difference, although everyone now is on RUclips claiming the superiority of MoFi releases that use pure analogue. It seems to me that a record's ultimate quality relies more on the mechanical mastering process than whether or not it is cut from digital.
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
luckily this brings us all together to laugh at 'audiophiles'! appreciate your leisurely explanation!
Great video . DSD do sound great but they lied about 100% Analog . there are interviews of Mr Britton saying the Gain 2 stage is ALL Analog . Lying to your customers is BAD . It's not about Analog Vs Digital . It's about letting us know your process and what we are buying .
And there's an actual diagram of the process which leaves out the image of the DSD step.
That's the smoking gun
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 There are also emails on the SHF in which MoFi CS assure customers that they are all analogue with no digital step. The issue for me is the lying and the fraud. And the fact that no one in their right mind would pay knowingly pay $125 for a digitally sourced OneStep.
Oh, and to discover that, for the 1Step BoTT and Tapestry, they just reused the DSD64 from the 33 - was a real kicker.
@@Andy-rc9db
I've seen those too
100% agree the interview conveyed how unseriously the MoFi dudes are taking this under the guise that they are providing the best sounding records. The end result is undeniable. How they get there, transparency in the process, and their understanding of their customers….leaves a lot to be desired. Paying $125 for a digital one-step isn’t feeling right.
Those guys were engineers. I really thought they were trying their best without giving away trade secrets. I actually thought that their explanation was fantastic, but then I was forced to learn how to speak engineer years ago. Remember, part of the reason that these guys are engineers is that they lack the people skills normally found in those of us that talk to the public regularly. They only briefly mentioned it, but they gave actual statistics about the sound quality of a dst. This is really more of a carburetor vs fuel injector argument.
I think that people are making much ado about
@@between2guitars331 those guys was being very shady and trying the best to ignore the questions
In the end, Mofi produced some of the best sounding records. I guess, if you don’t like the process, don’t buy the product. I have been buying their records for over 20 years, and will not stop buying, unless they start sounding bad.
It's just got SUCKER written all over it....even before the scandal. No (common) record is worth that much money.
I can't believe I pay $25 or $35 for new records.
And now even used vinyl can't be had for under $15 in most cases. The days of VG+ or NM- $4-$8 used commons are over folks....
Which is why I'm hunting for ( rock and metal) CDs again, and believe it or not I'm not the only one cause they are getting hard to find in the wild now. And Walmarts $5 CD bins are empty these days, but they have plenty of $35 commons...lol
@@jeffl915 We'll you must have money, they've always been too expensive for me, especially now. And I've never had an audiophile set up, so what's the point? If you don't have an expensive set up a mofi or one step isn't gonna blow your mind....
I guess this is really an issue for the suckers and audiophiles. Not my problem....
You pretty much nailed my feeling on this situation.
The ISSUE is that they "CLAIM"
Master Tape AND ONE STEP
It's NOT about sound or similar things...
As to be expected you and I are thinking and feeling the same way on all of this. Thanks for sharing of course.
My brother lives in Charlotte so I know that lack of anger is endemic to the area. I'm in Philly so we show our emotions more, especially with our sports teams. I pretty mad about this although I don't own one steps, but quite a few MOFI's.
Just a small correction, we can really thank Michael 45, I don't know his real name, in Germany for asking the original question especially with regard to the upcoming "Thriller" release and how is it possible to go back to the master tape so many times for the one step process. Michael (so many Michaels) from In Groove followed up with the investigation which led to the revelation of the digital step.
Correct with Michael Ludwig (Michael 45 RPM) was the first but Mike E. was soon after.
Michael Ludwig (45 RPM) was proven right. Validated by Michael Fremer, no less.
If people have been loving the sound of mofi records believing them to all be analogue sourced for years; only to then find out there’s a digital intermediate…
… This reassures me that a hi res transfer of an analogue master can pick up all the musical details of that master and puts the ‘digital is bad’ crowed in their place.
1. You’re very talented in addressing conflict and the facts, and I would assume any people you’ve ever managed loved working with/for you.
2. MoFi seemed to be waiting for this with the “well we never said these were always analog, you all just assumed, perhaps we’ll evaluate that and put a label.” They knew what they were doing, so that’s kinda slimy.
3. My main problem with the 45 rpm video was their unnecessary criticism of Mike from the In Groove, like he botched this opportunity with the interview and that they would’ve done so much better. He did the best he could and clearly his diplomacy is the only reason he got in that room. We should all just be thankful for him trying.
4. I agree that the people most mad are because they have countless videos pointing out how their supersonic hearing can decipher when something’s analog, and now they look kind of silly. I’d be pissed too, but I’d find them much more likable if they laughed at themselves about it and admitted technology is just too good nowadays.
Very well said!!
#2 There are multiple YT videos of them saying its AAA and their are customer service emails saying no digital steps when asked. Plus, the one step inset omits the DSD. It wasn't about assumptions. They lied.
@@maximilliangiarratano1485 if you have links to any of those that would be great, they really seemed like they tried to play dumb in their interview with Mike. Which is ridiculous because we all know that in this industry, the belief that something’s all analog is the way to justify their prices. They needed us to believe that so that we paid accordingly.
@@bradb625 Jan 2017
@ 1:47 "is it an all analog mastering chain? it is."
ruclips.net/video/z-td3Uk5TIQ/видео.html
Oct 2019. makes no mention of DSD. Showing tape then showing the laquer. Deceptive.
ruclips.net/video/MxkVg3uCX20/видео.html
Fremer calling Esposito a 'fanboy' was unnecessary. I'm not a fan of self-righteous, know-it-all Fremer.
I maybe wrong but I believe Mike from "45rpm Audiophile" was the first to bring this whole issue up when he questioned how MoFi was going to press 40,000 copies of the "Thriller" album using the "One Step" process
You are correct.
I will say MOFI guys seemed pretty flippant about it all... seemingly, an attitude of "it is what it is." I also wasn't too surprised... what surprises and saddens me most is that somehow this is also turning into a Mike vs Mike division deal...
Could you explain how they're turning on each other? I don't have time to keep up with all the updates hah
@@bananagumboot87 Its not that THEY are turning on each-other... more so its the camps of "Team -Esposito" vs "Team-Fremer." Where there are CLEARLY personality differences between the two "mikes," but I really feel they both have same/similar intent... that "intent" being (I believe/hope); expecting high quality records from manufacturers. I dunno know though really, I aint no one with a dog in this fight, I just appreciate anyone who speaks for, defends and champions records in general.
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
I'm with you on your take... The biggest scandal, to me, is the banners at the top of the packaging. "Original Master Recording" supposedly means SOMETHING. And the "Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab" banner supposedly means something else. And now they both mean Jack Squat. That's the deception. Not "can digital sound as good as analogue?" And...
They are still obfuscating about how much and which titles were digital at some point, and Mike definitely got rolled/blown off by them, and he made a sincere effort. All 3 can simultaneously be true.
Not surprised that they either used dubbed "safety tapes" or inserted a digital step to accomplish the same thing...minimal handling of the actual original tapes. Neither option is that surprising. Their un-seriousness is obnoxious.
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
The owner Jim Davis is known for punching holes in the walls, kicking doors, smashing computer monitors. He also keeps the low numbers #001 to #099 of each SACD and vinyl release by MOFI. He hoards them in order to resell on secondary market for higher. Asshole company
Awesome take as always Dillon. It’s the empowers new clothes, and lays bare the overhyped nature of the new vinyl market at the moment. I agree - old presses are the way to go.
All is good. Except I won't be paying $125 for a "one-step" (2-step?). In fact I'll just not buy from MOFI until I feel comfortable with what I get for the $$$. That may take a looong time.
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
@@ezzzraabarro9544 Yeah I read that comment by @Adam Linder yesterday on 6AM channel.
"One of the worst parts was working there for many years. All MOFI sacds and vinyl go to the Music Direct Chicago location. They ship out of there. The owner keeps the numbers 001 to 100 of each and every title and hoards them So they never really are truly out of print. Owner has anger issues. I've seen him punch holes through the walls in his office and hallway at least 9x. Smashed three computer screens against the wall. Terrifying to work for quite some think its a joke. Hence no department to handle issues. VP Josh is a joke also. He chooses most of the titles....except Weezer Blue which he thought was an 80s band and a "bad idea" to release. It turned out to be MOFIS top seller of all time on vinyl."
Yep, we're in pretty much the same position and agree on the issues. I'm a store owner, I don't sell new MoFi, but I do sell them used and have been collecting a few since the eighties. I haven't thought about the purity of the analog process, much, as it applies to MoFi releases, but I do believe they should have been transparent about the entire process all along. If they had been, like for instance Analogue Productions, they wouldn't be in the position to have to defend themselves. I like Michael at The In Groove, as I've been following him here on RUclips for years, and I appreciate his passion and efforts, but I gotta agree with Michael45 and Fremer, Espisito got rolled by the MoFi guys.
What is annoying about these ‘analogue’ guys and Fremer in particular is that they claim they can tell the difference between analogue (good) digital ( not so good )
Yet they clearly can't.
Mike, in the video immediately before the interview with mofi claim he ‘hates digital’ but that is clearly nonsense since he's been listening to and enjoying mofi records which have a digital component.
I love vinyl but I’m glad that many of the analogue audiophiles have been challenged about their prejudices through this news.
Mike has been advocating vinyls since TAS days, and he did proof a point by keeping ALL his records and more all these years, I have a lot of respect for him.
And btw, he proved it by putting the money.
If they sound good thats all that matters great video
One aspect I haven't seen discussed much is the collectability/resale value angle. If these MoFi releases were truly cut directly from the master tapes, they have an inherent rarity because we don't know much longer or how many more times the master tapes can be accessed. But since the releases actually are cut from a digital file, they could theoretically make an infinite amount in the future.
Thanks for simplifying this topic! You provide a valuable lens for those of us who love vinyl, but have real life concerns and challenges, too. It's like dude, chill...climate change is burning our cities down. Those other videos were painful to listen too--absolutely boring for this casual music lover. And when did that 45 RPM dude start vaping?! You are in a sweet spot by just being a human and promoting your passion for music. Keep it real, brother.
45RPM guy is insufferable
mofi has always reminded me of the Criterion Collection. They do the same thing mofi does except its for movies. The blurays come with a pamphlet that explains their process for each movie and its usually sourced from the original prints. If its from a digital source, they say it. Maybe they need to be more transparent? I think people would be surprised how many of their best sounding records were made digitally.
Interesting take!
With movies you actually want digital, lol...
@@user-sw4qd2up2s its obviously digital once they transfer it to a disc, but you want it transferred from the original 35mm or the best available print. For example, they used the original Super 16 mm negative for the Bamboozled transfer. A lot of DVDs out there that were transferred to dvd from VHS
Lets hope MoFi's prices come down because of all the hubbub and as for me Ill take that opportunity to buy as many as I can :p
Not an audiophile, but I like mint records. I have maybe 5-6 MoFi titles. When did the digital component begin to appear in the process?
They can't seem to tell you that apparently. They were wishy washy about that question
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 I guess you have to assume it's been happening since the day the technology became available then. I wonder when that was.
@@biffboffo
They said there was a crossover period, so I guess for a time they were using dsd transfers and direct from the master.
It would be nice if they could produce a list from this crossover period of what titles got what treatment.
I wouldn't hold my breath though
Edited. (MOFI has established a brand that justifies their premium prices). I’d be curious to know if MOFI’s cost per unit is any higher than an average 180 gram re-issue. I don’t have any idea. If MOFI can justify the premium prices, this would be much less of an issue to me personally.
I'm out based on price alone, so sound quality means nothing to me when it comes to mofi and one step.
now that we know 99.9% are not AAA---well for certain they need to step up the packaging game if they want to keep charging the big $ price.
amen
And while we're at it, let's stop 180 gm presses, go back to regular records and stop charging $30 for new reissues if commons. It's fucking ridiculous and 180 gm does NOT make a record sound better!
It's a free market, if their prices were too high nobody would buy them. People are buying them so yes, the premium price is justified.
Wow first I hear about this! I get all my info from you man and I gotta say no bueno that mofi isn’t being transparent with how they make their records. Shout out to Mike for going out there and trying to get to the bottom of it
As someone who refuses to pay the stupid prices for MOFI albums I find this whole thing kind of funny. I’m so shocked a business would “deceive” their customers 🤔
I refuse to pay the prices too, I actually only own one mofi pressing and I got it at a thrift store for $2 10 yrs ago.
But I'm still mad about these grubs deceiving people and being smug about it.
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
The reason a lot of audiophiles are upset is due to their pontificating about their ability to hear a digital step a mile away. Many of them are highly embarrassed now. Personally I'm fine with the digital step if it allows a greater level of quality. As the Mofi guys mentioned; I'd rather have a great sounding lp with a digital step than a mediocre record direct from master tape.
Not the point! The point is that Mofi insinuates that the recording is direct from the Analog master tapes. Which to some Audiophiles is the foremost criteria. Everyone has there own and the fact that you are OK with it is irrelevant. The Point is that some of these recordings are not direct and do in fact have a digital step! Honesty, transparency and integrity is the point. Especially at current prices they owe the consumer absolute Transparency in the process.
You’re right Mr Fremer on that video definitely seemed like someone got chocolate in his peanut butter!
I love listening to records and relaxing. I am not into it for collecting or reselling purposes. I feel like this was intentionally done to get money from people into reselling or thinking they were getting the best form of the album.
I agree with the transparency take 100%.
At the end of the day all we ask is for honesty and integrity.
I had the same take on the interview video. Way too much joking around for such a serious subject - serious to consumers spending big bucks on records.
This is just like live music. These people are not ripping off the public when the public continues to buy. Me I have my limits and will not spend over $50 for an album, and that has to have a deep meaning to me. As I won't, for the most part, pay more than $125 for a concert. Thanks so much, Eagles, for starting this year's ago and continuing to try to rip off their fans.
As long as the end result sounds good, I personally don’t care what the source is, but It would have been nice if MoFi had been 100% transparent with their customers. By being somewhat misleading and not telling the whole truth, it seems like a lie, and I understand if people are upset. They’re paying a premium for a premium product. Regardless of the label, if a record sounds great (new or used), and not outrageously priced, that’s the one I’ll likely choose. But…it’s almost always been about content, and great sound quality is an obvious plus. Thanks for chiming in on this, Dillon.
spot on. great take all around, Mike did a great job, and i think the insightful observation you make is that it didn't appear in the video that the Mofi engineers understand the gravity of the situation from a negative marketing perspective.
wow I have to check this out at home I guess..I have all the volume controls I can find maxed out and still it is too low.
Sorry, it was mastered from the original tape
I always love how you articulate things, your my fav vinyl channel.
Thanks for sharing man. Was looking forward to hearing your thoughts. And yes. An apology and transparency is the high road they need to take.
Sounds like a potential class action lawsuit
I like and agree with what you said. That being said I have been considering selling my album collection which includes MOFI recordings so I guess I'll wait on that.
All I can say is that the Mofi elpees that I have recently bought sound great and after this so called debacle the same elpees still sound great 👍
Here is my two cents. First of all I'm an old man. Been at this hobby for 60 plus years. I'm frugal (cheap) for you younger people. I mis-trust the whole show now a days. I truly think the old vinyl from way back in the day, stuff that weighs in at 160 plus grams is the best sounding. Decca and RCA
Shaded Dog is awesome. GEMA, & Parlahone pressing's are right up there too. I brought home my equipment from my tour in Germany in 1976. I take the vinyl and record it on my reel-to-reel. Then play back at 3 3/4 ips. My collection is in the thousands of records. I have tapes that are over 45 years old and they sound terrific. Of course this could be because of my bad hearing. LOL.
All I know, Dillon, is you're the best. I stick with the original or early pressings. Never got into Mofi. Fine press books? Now that's a problem for me.
I had the same feeling when I got done watching the video. It was an interesting conversation and they did admit to a digital step (if needed or they felt it was better?), but I don't feel like we got the clear answers people wanted. I just want to know what I'm buying so I can choose to buy or not. End story.
Not sure any company can fully give in detail everything that you want to know so you can decide what to buy. You are asking the impossible.
your laid back take on this is the best for new to the game people like me. but being an audio guy like yourself please record with a higher volume so it's easier to hear you
I would absolutely prefer complete transparency from all the labels, but I say that about politicians too. I hope that MoFi does do something so they are transparent about it, but in my experience unless it is legally required companies aren't keen on doing it. Since the government isn't going to make rules about this that leaves it up to the industry which most likely isn't going to do industry wide requirements, which leaves it up to the individual labels. This leaves us where we already are: with word smithed statements that mean different things to different labels and who knows how the consumer is going to interpret it. The marketing obfuscation will continue to rule.
This whole things sort of cracks me up. It is bad that they were all quiet about the analog versus digital side of things, but c'mon...it is not that crazy like it has been hyped up to be. There are plenty of analog pressings that sound terrible and plenty of digital that are superior to an analog. I guess this is the new hot thing to be upset about in the VC. I just sit back and chuckle.
As always, great video and great explanation.
Great perspective. One could gain a great overall "feel" for the Music Direct / MoFi controversy by watching your latest MoFi vid along w/ PoetryOnPlastic's new vid too. 👍
Moreover, am glad to see most appreciate Mike at InGroove's original effort along with Michael Ludwig 45RPM too. 👍
I get a diiferent Audio now I've got decent kit I picked up a Panasonic 4K Player that got me back into CD and I've just started on SACD it's startin' to pickup now!
Interesting. I have heard direct double-DSD rips of 15-IPS analogue master tapes, and they were the best sound I ever heard - spookily good, like the performers were right there in front of you. If you could buy files like these, audiophiles would forget about records, it's like listening to the master tape.
Exactly. Why not just sell High rate DSD if that's what they're using for a master?
@@Sthunderrocker - The answer is simple - the rips are too good. It would be like selling an exact copy of the master tape to the general public.
OG kind of guy!! I think clean originals have more character than any modern audiophile pressing. Or if you can get your hands on the early audiophile stuff. Good video!!
I dig the original stuff just like you Dylan and I don’t think that will ever change.
Fremer was upset because he didn’t catch this first.
And the fact fremer can't actually tell the difference between analog and digital lol
Oiled Oak Khorns...nice, owned a pair of 93's myself in the day.
Agreed. What bothered me in the interview was the technical language used to try to muddy the water. I felt they could have been more clear and explained they process, even though it’s a complexe one, more plainly.
From my perspective, this is hilarious. I was born in ‘61, and started to listen to rock in ‘74. I cut grass for $3.00 a yard and delivered papers and bought one album a week at the base exchange for $4.00. When CDs came in (mid 80’s) there was a big competition to make them all digital. There were three letters, with A for analog and D for digital, designating how a CD was recorded, mixed, and mastered. Thus, AAD was recorded and mixed in analog and mastered digitally. From my ears, the DDD CD’s could be amazing (e.g., In the Digital Mood by The Glenn Miller Orchestra). In pop, the high end had a clarity like never before (like a distinctive triangle sound in Madonna’s Material Girl), which you couldn’t have in vinyl because of the frequency range limitations.
That’s why this is hilarious to me. Now you have a controversy about using digital technology in the production of analog pressings. What matters to me, in the end, is the quality of the sound being produced, the music itself and the medium of getting the recorded sounds to your ears. Ironically, the backlash to strictly digital music is because it’s too pristine. Lo-Fi plugins are popular in the music producing world which do nothing but add the imperfections we were trying to get rid of back in the day. We were trying to eliminate tape hiss, not add it in!
My motto is, if it sounds good, play it!
Thanks for your perspective, Dillon. I am not really affected by this myself, as I am mostly an OG purchaser. I do understand their anger, though. If you put out funds for audiophile records, you should have the confidence that the company is clear on what exactly they are selling to you you. Just like organic or non-GMO, etc. Thanks!
With all due respect to all involved, if the dude from The In Groove has been listening to his mofi records for years and his EARS told him nuthin, I don't see the problem. It's your ears that your pleasing, that's it.
I am with you Dylan! Original pressings are definitely analog and us OG record lovers keep the foundation of first clean pressings!
It's easy to say now, but the difference in sound quality is minimal to the average human ear. Especially when they are subjected to years of damage - 66 years in my case. We all got suckered into it. Didn't hear anybody complaining about the sound quality of records being issued by MoFi for the lat 8 years. Let the buyer beware.....
Good take on the situation!
I don't have any of that stuff, especially at those prices. Now, if I find some in a dumpster somewhere, I might be interested. Lol
Dillon, my whole collection is digital so right now I could be laughing at these so called vinyl experts but I'm not because it's all about the music and musicians. I don't care what format you listen to just tell me how good the music is. I watched Mike's video and he never asked the tough questions as a consumer who buys the product instead he turned into a fan so they just never answered or avoided the questions all together.
You are spot on about your comments about the Mofi guys, they were smug and had a "what's the big deal" aura about them.
I think those guys answered the questions as best they could 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you for your opinion....it really matters 👍
Thanks for watching! 🙏
I'm definitely in the camp of not caring as much, because I don't own any MoFi records. I'm all about transparency and think that all record companies should label the source material. Good response!
Thanks for your take. I agree with you. Is that Noble mug for sale online?
Now that "the truth is out there" hopefully the secondhand market on outrageous & overpriced MoFi's will come down to earth. On the other hand, original pure analog pressings will go up!
First, does this mean the current Bellman / Grundman VH remasters are the best pure analog pressings available vs. the upcoming one-steps? Second, MoFi's dishonestly is astounding and disappointing. I'm sure they knew what they were doing by using the ORIGINAL MASTE RECORDING banner while not actually letting you know how the sausage is actually made. Glad that Mike called them out, but that was some uncomfortable deflection on their part. They are essentially pressing SACDs to vinyl. A lot sound amazing, but that's some shady shit.
you could probably get similar sound out of ripped sacds and some good dac
Vinyl sounds better than sacd per Mike at the in Groove.
We need some Audiophile journalists putting the questions, I felt sorry for Mike (In Groove) I think the guys at MOFI were not being honest with him. Or taking the subject seriously enough. People have been paying top Dollar for these releases believing they were 100% AAA .I know they never said that but in all this time they never denied it either and until they were found out I doubt would have changed anything. I really can't see a way out for MOFI if I am honest, those who purchase there records feel duped and with good reason.....but lets see what happens. Thanks for your thoughts Dillon. All the best from the UK.
Mobile Fidelity say that they use Digital equipment which samples way over 200 times higher than cds. Everything you thought about Digital sound, you would probably not think with equipment like that; in all likelihood. Whether they had a moral obligation to reveal they were mastering from a digital copy is another matter. They know what a lot of people think of digital, from their experience with cheap digital equipment, and they knew that people's overgeneralizations and biases against Digital would hurt their sales. If you had a record company and your market research told you that mentioning Digital would cost you millions in sales, how many people criticizing them would have mentioned that themselves?
Myself and audiophile friends have invested multiple thousands in gear, tubes, cartridges, etc, to capture the (real) magic of an analogue souce. Many if not all Mofi customers have bought these products under the assumption that there is no "digital step" and have at best been misled. Trust has been lost.
SUCKERS!! 🤣
The real controversy is how the owner is still in business after decades of being a scumbag. He is known for throwing tantrums, punching holes in walls, kicking doors, throwing computers across the room. He cannot give his hardworking staff yearly raises, but he can afford to damage things because he is a giant toddler who can' t control his emotions. Not one outside agency came to our help. And not one customer cared enough either knowing the abuse workers face at the location in Chicago (Music Direct) Terrible company. Terrible management. The owner also hoards the #001 to #100 low numbers of every single release!!! SO NOT SO RARE. That is why you don't come across low numbers online for sale.
The owner Jim Davis is known for punching holes in the walls, kicking doors, smashing computer monitors. He also keeps the low numbers #001 to #099 of each SACD and vinyl release by MOFI. He hoards them in order to resell on secondary market for higher. Asshole company
@@ezzzraabarro9544 Its true. I worked there snd witnesses that awkward shit. Creates trauma and stress being around someone unstable.
Two takeaways, Fremer was mad that he didn't get the scoop, and second Fremer always said that he could hear the difference between records sourced from analog or digital sources. I guess he couldn't. One thing about all of this before it became any kind of story, one of the local specialist dealers here wondered what kind of tape deck(they assumed it was an analog deck) they were using because the sound on the One Steps reminded them of DSD recordings. They still liked it but I thought how these guys recognized the sonic signature of DSD. One of the owners is a recording engineer. One more thing, the original MOFI company before they had I think financial issues were all analog. I own quite a few of those that were pressed on JVC Super Vinyl that was black but transparent in the light.
Best reaction to the situation thanks Man!!!!!
You know, I wasn’t upset at all. At the beginning they mentioned WHY, and I’m kind of surprised they even said that much. Remember, MOFI is in competition with other companies who would just LOVE to know exactly what their doing. Mike may have been asking them divulge trade secrets. Remember, Ford isn’t going to let one if it’s engineers go on RUclips and go into detail their process for building an engine, a chef from Ruth’s Chris is not going to tell you how he seasons a steak.
At the end of the day, what are we really looking for? If you are going to pay the extra money for a mofi product, you want it to sound better! These are records that we are buying to listen to, not necessarily to invest in. And if this digital step makes it sound better, then so be it. As for transparency, unless I own the company, I really don’t think I deserve one here. Not when the answers can reveal trade secrets.
What we're looking for is honesty and integrity
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 I get what your asking, but in this case, you really don’t have the right to ask. As long as they aren’t outright lying, which they weren’t. Once you get into manufacturing processes for ANYTHING, anything a company does that’s different from what others are doing, well those are trade secrets. Honestly, if I were the CEO of MOFI, that interview would not happen with those guys.
@@between2guitars331
I think you're stretching it to call this "trade secrets"
If you buy "organic" food and after 10 yrs discover that the process of production of your "organic" food isn't actually organic, are you going to be mad that all this time you've been paying a premium price for something you thought was organic?
Or
Are you going to say, oh well I guess it was a "trade secret" and I had no right to ask or know.
Get outta here with this "trade secret" bullshit
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 The Federal Trade Commission probably wouldn't accept 'trade secret' as an excuse for deceptive marketing and untrue statements to customers and reviewers.
But there weren’t any deceptive practices. There was never any representation of the process being completely analog. This was an admitted misunderstanding. And it also feeds into a bias that analog sounds better than digital. This has really gotten into the sausage making aspect of it. And yes, these guys admitted to using some stuff that others may not. If I’m MOFI’s competitors, I really want to know this, so I can do the same thing that they do for a little cheaper and put them under.
CD’s on vinyl!
Amen brother
I will never sell my Mofi Bob Dylan collection. It sounds so good and incase anyone is wondering, yes I do have the gear to notice the difference. Great video BTW.
Imagine taking a picture on a camera using film..then taking a pic of it digitally. Then taking a pic of that with a camera using film and selling it as picture taken on an analog camera.
Dillion, great video! I agree with you. I like to focus on the original pressing. I’m not going to sell my Mofi records because of this. Take care.
I'm sure Mike will do some type of follow-up video, but I'm not sure what more info people want - unless it specific info as to how a given MoFi record was made. Many purchasers were under the impression that their products were all analogue; they admitted it wasn't. And given that the 4X DSD is an integral part of their process and they say the sound of the finished product is better as a result, they aren't going to stop using digital.
Consumers just need to hold MoFi's feet to the fire to ensure that the process of future releases is more transparent.
This!!!!!
...hi Dillon...as usual a well presented, balanced opinion piece...love your stuff man...but...your sound levels are a bit low...am finding myself reaching for the headphones to hear your posts....and eating potato chips whilst viewing was a disaster!....please help an ageing record shop guy with a passion for deep fired tuber snacks and failing hearing out by cranking the volume a bit.... : )
Not too sure about labels not explicitly mentioning that vinyl was cut from original master tapes; if anything Blue Note almost always mentions "cut from original master tapes"
I'm scratching my head over this whole "controversy." It seems to me just a lot of absurd drama drummed up to give audiophiles something more to obsess over. Here's the thing: As you say, the records sound good. So why do we care that MoFi is not completely "transparent" about their process to get there? Does it really matter that there's a digital step involved? We live in a digital world now. To take this further, how do we define transparency and what do we expect? How much do we really need to know about how every reissue--or even a new release--was mastered and pressed and so on?
They are just mad because they didn't notice.
@@TheHSIHP Ha ha!
The controversy is almost entirely about the price of MOFI records. If they were $30-40 where they ought to have always been, nobody would care. Problem is the second-hand market was out of control, and suddenly MOFI are charging $125 for reissues of common records. And people still gobble them up during pre-order stage. The situation spiraled out of control, and it was propagated by misleading advertising and limited pressings. If there is an appetite for MOFI records because they sound amazing, then they should keep pressing them indefinitely.
If you were paying a premium price for "oragnic" food would you care if after say 10 yrs you found out that the food wasn't organic?
Would you keep buying it at that premium price just because you thought it still tastes ok?
@@YuengsNwings
No the controversy is about the fact they've been dishonest, it wouldn't matter if they were $30 people would still be pissed off about being lied to.
The fact that they're a premium price just makes the anger worse, people feel even more ripped off
I don’t care about audiophile stuff in the slightest, but if listeners think the records sound great, the fact that Mo-Fi did something they weren’t aware of shouldn’t change a listener’s opinion on the sound quality. Just my 2 cents.