Mobile Fidelity - Interview on Mastering With Shawn Britton, Krieg Wunderlich & Rob LoVerde
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2022
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When MoFi is marketing Hybrid SACD and 24K Gold CD they say: ” Our most advanced digital products utilize Direct Stream Digital (DSD) technology. DSD offers much greater resolution and frequency response of DC to 100kHz, allowing our engineers to transfer more information from the source.”
What bothers me is why DSD has not been mentioned on the LP record marketing but in their CD products it is said.
When Mofi is marketing basic Original Master Recording LP’s and One-Steps they say: ”Our Original Master Recordings only utilize actual original masters as source material. The master is played back through our custom electronics to extract the maximum amount of information.”
There is also used following text in the back sleeve: ” The Gain 2 Ultra Analog System”.
These words creates an image for the consumer that he or she is buying AAA! Mofi must have known that almost all buyers think so, because they say that… ”Audiophiles and serious music collectors the world over have enermous respect for our contributions to the analog disc”.
Turns out the greatest contribution to analog discs was digital transferring!
crooks!
That's exactly correct. Even Mike was fooled by the Gain 2 text, and has said they are AAA multiple times.
Get over yourself.
@@NicolauWerneck Yeah, nah
To get out of this mess I think MOFI now need to be 100% transparent and present a list of all pressing that are AAA and all those that have a digital step in the process. The consumer deserves to know what they bought.
Yep it's that simple
From my understanding none of their titles are AAA anymore.
I would hazard all releases are cut from the DSD they explained why. Modern releases need it, it's not like in the 50's where an artist would just record everything live. Then you just play and cut off it.
The guy said it at 1:03: ""there is digital".
@@adamhunt4462 I’m taking about the past and the future releases. Everything
The only other questions I would have asked are:
1. Why did you or your marketing people, continue to allude that these Original Master Recordings and were pure all analog?
2. Do you feel that you were disingenuous to your customers? Do you understand some of the outrage now and are you sorry?
3. Why do you continue to call them One Steps?
4. Why do you need those big wasteful boxes for the One Steps?
5. When will you fix the split seam issue?
6. Can we go wine tasting in Sonoma now?
Spazzlov, if there was EVER a step in the 'human chain' that could or should be skipped, it is YOU. Are you seriousl about question One? They lie to achieve their goals, just like you do, you should UNDERSTAND the concept.
I’m not upset at their mastering process, I’m upset that they let retailers, advertisers, the press, and the public think these releases were AAA for the last 10 years and never thought to correct the record once. To be fair that’s not their job, that’s Music Direct’s job, so they’re the one that really dropped the ball here.
This exactly the point in all this. Audiofools and their idiot followers will continue to make it about analog vs digital though. Oh, and if it was Music Direct's job, why wouldn't it also be Lord Fremer's job too??
Exactly bud 👍. I might add, we've also had annual or semiannual international vinyl tradeshows over decades and opportunities to bring up the need, as MoFi proclaims, to transfer to DSD first yet they (and others) did not broach the subject though many in the industry assumed it was an oft used process.
Not just music direct, just by looking at their faces in the first 5 minutes they looked like they had gotten caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They were all in on it and they perpetuated their dishonesty. Like you said, as long as it sounds great that’s all that matters, but this interview really shows some of dishonesty they have been carrying for over 15 years.
@@ab2abblank607 The reps lied directly to Fremer in their email correspondence. It’s silly to blame him, the only reason they came clean was the leaks and public outrage.
You're spot on there. Those three guys are responsible for many great sounding records but not for this horrible mess in terms of the customer relationship.
There are other people in this company that have to answer the uncomfortable questions that should follow out of this video.
What they should have said: "We apologize. We recognize that further transparency was necessary regarding the term "Original Master Recording" and when that is an all analog chain and when that is transferred to the digital domain. There are no excuses. We let down some of our loyal customers, and we will be 100% transparent about the process starting this minute." They didn't say that so... glaring at Mike for stating the truth won't gain back trust.
The way they're using it, it makes the term Original Master Recording pretty meaningless. Every pressing was at some point sourced from the original master tape if you go back a generation or two.
There have been countless studies done that demonstrate again and again that uncompressed digital copies of original analog masters are indistinguishable to the human ear. What you should care about, if you weren't pretentious, is whether or not MoFi pressings sound as good as conceivably possible. Not whether or not a digital step is involved in their process. Because if that process is lossless, it is scientifically impossible for it to not sound identical, analog or digital.
👍
@@Progger11 Yes, and also that they are transparent and let the customer decide
Should have,could have blah blah mucky muck .Damage control starting point established with a emphasis on transparency.Wash rinse and repeat…. Just more corporate marketing talk after customer trust has reached lows similar to recent historic Gallup poll approval numbers of the Biden crime family .
I'm an old pro engineer in the biz and I've actually made transfers using the Pyramix System @4x DSD and I've also witnessed many disc cutting sessions. Although MoFi should have been a little bit more forthcoming, as a consumer who has been a collector of their discs for over 40 years, I personally wouldn't worry because DSD as an intermediary can be virtually indistinguishable from an original master tape. Yes everything in the chain can change the sound and does. If you've ever heard the difference between an original all analog master tape and it's cut Lacquer you would probably not complain at all about the sound of DSD.. In my opinion DSD at a high rate retains all the depth, three dimensionality and bass weight of the original.
Cut Lacquer on the other hand does more to change the sound.
The issue is Mofi knowingly deceiving. And setting pricing as if it was AAA because of limited runs. No one is saying they don’t sound good, but they are priced as being AAA, and customers have been lied to.
THEY HAVE BEEN LIED TO. There's an argument by the public and experts like you asking why they should n't be to put out since the sound is comparable, even better. However, one could argue about whether a person that buys a hand made rug, dress, ceramic, or even a painting is n't actually drawn by the talented artist you thought it was, that it's maybe even made better, by a new technic. Would that person that pays a premium for that original piece, created under deceitful circumstances, be wrong in being disappointed, if not outraged enough to declare fraud? Especially when the vendor purposely withheld or fraudulently sold it as something it was n't, despite many thinking the fraudulant item is as good as, if not better?
I don't want a re-issue of The White Album, I want the original, with the pops and crackles and the cover that just feels different (stickier, not necessarily better) in my hands.
Solid take. I'm sure you're spot on. But, this is less about technical facts and more about emotions like trust and sense of betrayal. For an analog purist, it's like buying a dozen eggs and finding out there are metal filings inside. I know that's hyperbolic, but in an area where passions are so powerful and deeply seated, for hundreds of thousands of us analog fans it really is about trust. And that's been evaporated.
Exactly. My experiences has been much the same.
Geez! Why pay 120 for a vinyl aka CD copies when you can get real CD for 20?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The thing that bugs me is I find it hard to believe not one person at MOFI has seen or read any of the 1000's of retailer or audiophile videos/reviews stating the albums are "all analog", and didn't find it necessary to correct them. That would have been a great question for these guys, "Does anyone at MOFI ever watch reviews of your albums? Have you every heard anyone, retailers or fans, saying your albums are "all analog"?" Of course the albums sound amazing, so here's my question.. You are buying an all original 1959 Cadillac only to find out later it's not all original..maybe it has modern brakes or a modern engine or transmission, and yes it is probably now way better than when it was new, but does the fact it's not all original (analog) affect the value or collectibility? Did we get Milli Vanilli’ed?
What Shephard said....
THIS is the biggest problem
EXACTLY!!! Brilliantly put for real.
That’s exactly the point here that needs to be brought up!
Totally agreed with Aaron, I have said in the past, if I bought a Tesla Car, when I go inside the vehicle I don’t expect to see a logo on the steering wheel from Chevrolet or VW or Chrysler but a Tesla Steering Wheel logo, or when they give you the keys I don’t expect a different than what I’m purchasing, bottom line is if a wanted a DSD or digital I will purchased the SACD that is less expensive than the Vinyl presentation at the end yes I agree is the sound what it matters but if both are digital and digital is my thing I’ll go with the SACD less money out of my pocket, why until now, this is ridiculous
Mastering engineers are usually the final QC on a record - they're the "golden ears" with the best reference speaker setup. And it sure seems like these guys really care about the quality of what they're putting out, and using the appropriate tools to do justice to the recordings.
@rikster6971 whoosh
They seem to be very intent at jokin' around and "not going into very much detail." My take is that they were initially vague on message for years and awful from a promotional standpoint. Why should it take a guy like Mike to bring all this to light? Why couldn't they make a video themselves? It's all pretty ridiculous.
For the record, I am not a audiophile vinyl reissue buyer but have been very pleased with the quality of their SACDs.
These clearly aren't "marketing" guys. It's a small nerd shop.
they shouldn't talk to a record shop guy
@@escaton74 This is my point. Once the accusations came out, why didn't Music Direct issue a statement that was professional as possible?
@@escaton74 why not? No one else got them this close to the truth
I always bought MFSL and MOV pressing simply because I always knew what quality I was going to be getting. The digital/analog piece doesn't bother me. The fact that, and their initial responses and looking at each other so strangely, told me that the knew they were being deceptive in how they presented it. Being lied to intentionally is just never something that sits right. I think one great way to earn that back is don't put the info "on the website" as you KNOW everyone doesn't go read the website. Especially if they don't order from the website. 90% of my over 100 mofi pressings came from stores or secondary market. Simply put it clear as day in the packaging...an not HIDDEN! Show us that clear honesty and we can continue to show you our support as consumers.
A 15 year run of deception...er...unspoken truth? Oh their obfuscation definitely had help and their enablers will be here and/or posting new videos of their own in 3...2...1...
Very well said Brandon. I'm not upset about a digital component in an otherwise analog chain but the dishonesty and lack of ever feeling the need to clarify their process has left a very bad taste in my mouth. When you consider how upfront and transparent Intervention, Impex and Acoustic Sounds records are, it makes me feel even angrier at MOFi. I don't know how this will affect them in the future but they have, in my opinion, done some damage to their label.
You said it man. They knew people considered them analogue and they made a conscious choice each and every day to not correct that info. Damn. Still working my way through the video… but I hope he goes into why he feels the spars (sp?) code is not sufficient. In any event. There is a way to do exactly what mike was/is asking for.
Great job mike. You are the best. End of story.
Where's the LIE?
People made ASSUMPTIONS.
Their website and products never claimed to be all analog at all times.
That's hilarious.
"You didn't warn us that your groundless assumptions about us were wrong!" 🤣
Kreig's whole demeanour during this entire video still tells the entire tale.
OMG You should hear the bashing being done by Fremer on 45 RPM channel. I think there is a lot jealousy as he didn’t get the scoop. I fear there may be a slow down in MOFI sale for awhile but we shall see. God on ya Mike for being able to get MOFI to talk.
Here we go! I’ve been waiting for this.
I only trust Bernie Grundman and Kevin Gray for true analog audiophile masters. From here on, Mofi needs to come clean what they are selling consumers.
1) If the DSD process wins out in sound tests then why did you deny its existence? 2) Why are you making bogus scarcity with 2,500 or even 40k copies when this is a digital file that can be reproduced ad infinitum with no loss in quality?
Indeed. “Limited…to the number of records we can sell.”
Yeah they still use the bogus moniker of "awaiting repress" as if they are going through the usual timestaking analogue processes of that routine when they have no excuse for not manufacturing non stop since its a digital mastering process 🧐
This definitely will influence my future MOFI purchases! I'm not completely bent out of shape that there may be a digital step involved, as long as it is as clean and true to the source as possible, just stamp that on the bottom of the back cover, or disclose the process within the package!! Just simply be honest!
Yes...and they should just hype dsd in the chain. It's amazing what they create regardless. Pure analog is hype. CD was hype. High resolution digital however not hype....you can hear everything when digital is done right. And you can hear more than vinyl can contain
Hires is hype as all other formats in the past..
Lets move on....old news at this point 👉 👈
I would do EXACTLY the opposite, as long as they remain as close as possible to the original recording doesn't matter what support they used to bring the original to their studio. Some many .."audiophiles" miss this important point!
@@anthonynicholson5523 my friend you forgot SACD..
Do these guys realize how serious this issue is to their company? I don't think they do
MOFI is going DOWN. DOWN!!!!!
Serious ramifications? Legal ones?
Apparently they don't. All laughs and smirks at the start!
They do, that’s why they are doing this
@@Portekberm If they truly realised, they would’ve apologised. Which is the bare minimum.
Nice work - no-one else got them to this point to discuss their process - props for that.
This was way too deferential. It started out okay, but quickly went off the rails when Mike just turned into a fanboy. @ 2.46 Mike asks about the mastering process for the Abraxas one step, and is told they use an analog machine and a DXD recorder to copy the tape, but never give us the answer as to which of those was used! In either case, the record was therefore cut from a copy, and not the "Original Master Recording" itself. At best, MoFi has been deceiving their customers for years. The diagram supplied with every record shows nothing between the master tape and the lacquer, and when people in the press and elsewhere described the releases as all analog, MoFi never stepped up to set the record straight. That's deceptive. It doesn't matter that they believe their method is the best way to make a record, they continually obfuscated about the fact that there's a digital step in the process. Shame on them.
The fanboy was clearly on show. Probably the reason why they invited Mike and not some journalists.
They explained that they use their Studer analog tape machine to play the master tape and record it to digital DSD format.
Fanboy Mike ...
Both machines were used. One to play back the tape. The other to record the signal.
Full respect to Mike. You think the other Mikes aren’t fans?…
Wow. I have not seen that much dancing since Singin' in the Rain.
Absolutely surreal hearing Stan's name brought up. I knew the man well. In fact, I spent a number of years living under his roof where he had his home mastering studio in the garage. He was a kind soul and had a passion for music, actively playing bass in the local community orchestra with his daughter. I remember him in the garage for hours on the lathe cutting laquers up until his last days. I only recently realized what an impact he had on the vinyl world with this recent MoFi controversy.
Thanks for this contribution and effort Mike! The interview was maybe not the best interview possible, but listening between the lines we get a lot of interesting information. Yes, they should definitely up their game and start issuing information how a certain record pressing came to be. I would almost argue including an additional insert for that specific record (including the cataloguemumber, etc so that you can always refernce it against the sleeve and LP itself (so no generic information) that gives us the information we like to see. For that matter: any re-issue label that releases audiophile records should do this. So in the end 2 things matter: a) being transparent about the whole production chain and b) experiencing a record that blows you away and leaves you in awe! But the fact you and Mofi made the effort and got information from the source (although they sometimes love to dodge the direct information) made for a very nice insight into the inner workings at Mofi. As Rob put it....'try to get a master as accurately possible compared to the original master', is where it's at. So if thats includes 4X DSD that's fine by me.....the pressings have proven themselves. Remember; original tapes can't run forever; at one point they deteriorate and will be useless, so better preserve them!
So in the end 2 things matter: a) being transparent about the whole production chain and b) experiencing a record that blows you away and leaves you in awe! Thanks again Mike !! Regards from The Netherlands
Mike achieved his aim. Watch from about 18:50
They seem 3 very nice gentleman with a uniquely extraordinary knowledge of the process, very few people will understand the process or practice as these gentleman do. They are craftsmen and it’s nice to hear what they have to say, thank you for the great interview.
They seem like tools
Paid goons ..if their that good they could find work elsewhere…
Just high paid lap dogs …
It’s the MoFi marketing team that should have been in front of the camera - they’re the ones responsible for the comms not these blokes.
@@bondi5000 Well said. 👏
These 3 gentleman are just swindlers
Just solid dude and I can't believe you pulled this off! Looking forward to follow up/fallout videos from you. Thanks
Im starting to think most are mad because they have been telling everyone how much better their all analog MOFI version is and are now realizing they didn't have ears good enough to decipher a digital step. Instead of all the hurt egos, I say thats a testament to how well they apply that step in the chain when they do. Even with this conversion step, I feel like im getting a superior analog experience on playback through and analog system.
MOFI could not sound better if they were still using the old, outdated AAA system from 40 years ago.
I might go watch some Fremer videos now and have a laugh
Bingo. This is ultimately about the pretentious analog cultists being shown to be either full of it, or self-deluded. The sound is indecipherable between analog and digital when the digital process is a lossless copy. That's been demonstrated in study after study for years. MoFi makes some of the best-sounding pressings on the market. Period. Everyone thought so before, and they shouldn't feel any different now.
100%. This is all about analog only snobs who can't admit that digital can actually sound pretty good. They're still crying that MoFi claimed the releases are all analog when they never did.
@@johnbrentford5513 you may not understand completely what that means
Excellent interview. Thanks for asking the tough questions. It was definitely enlightening and I have a better appreciation for what these companies do. I look forward to more transparency in describing their process. It should have been that way from the beginning.
Thank you Michael for getting to the bottom of this. Consumers can now make an informed decision about their purchase going forward.
I appreciate that MoFi agreed to explain the process. Going forward, fulfill the pledge to include the gear used in the remastering, either on the product or website. I always assumed DSD was part of the chain and accept that the original mater tapes get digitized due to their delicate nature. But consumers deserve to know what they’re getting.
This is a PR nightmare for THE audiophile boutique label. When one spends $125 (or even $40) on (at best) a lie of omission, or at worst a false pretense, there is a BIG problem. Why tf are they charging $125 for one steps? I guess it's cool that they laid this to rest, but there's really no excuse for lying to your customers for years.
"I appreciate that MoFi agreed to explain the process." They're a business. They had no choice. If they didn't explain, they'd be out of business. You think they're doing people a favor by talking?
Thank you for this very interesting interview and video series. What amused (but didn't bother) me was the slightly warbly-ness of the audio. Now I feel like building up a little vinyl collection, especially the vinyls that were mentioned highly here. Thank you!
So, if they convert direct to digital does this mean that their SACD's would be the better option? There would be less compromise to fit the format? I saw a video earlier today where Bernie G said that for him it was all about the loss in converting to digital that makes pure analogue stand out. Not saying the records don't sound amazing I just wonder if the higher quality digital file is the best way to go for their releases done this way.
The vinyl version would have a higher resolution than the SACD version, since they're sampling at 4 times the DSD rate (which is the standard for SACDs).
@@glennsmusicchannel A traveling suitcase recorder no less.
@@glennsmusicchannelThat is good though I suppose there is still the issue where people like Bernie are sure that converting to digital is where the issue is. Bernie in the cid I saw said that he had heard all of transfer options to do this and none get it right.
Really nice of them to explain the process amd why they really love what they do
Mike, I want to hear your opinion on this interview. Follow up video is a must.
I’m sure he’ll just say they were great, they were open to his questions, gave him a great tour and a nice lunch and spent a lot of time schmoozing
@@cradio52 YEP Mike got sucked in. Couldn't even ask a decient question the whole time. Listening to These Guys a CLOWN CAR SHOW with a traveling suitcase recorder.
@@cradio52 - and don’t forget, a nice pat on the head for being such a good boy with his lowball questions.
@@mpi5850 You mean softball questions.
@@mpi5850what should he have done? Run in there, slam the door and start screaming at them?
Incredible work, Mike! I have no problem whatsoever with their processing. But they should definitely take this opportunity to raise the bar on transparency. Well done everybody!
did not hear a SORRY from them because marketing lied
Thanks for posting! You've done a great service for the vinyl community here. Just the facts, from the engineers themselves. 👍👍
💨
Now that they confirmed there is a digital component of the original tape, there should be no reason to not seek additional licenses to repress Nirvana Nevermind (or insert any out-of-print album you want). Am I right?
Why would you want their Nevermind repressed when you can still get the Bernie Grundman AAA cut via Geffen's 2013 which is the superior mastering?
No. They still need access to the original tape to transfer using their equipment. Did you actually watch the video?
@@TheJediJoker Maybe I don't understand the nuances of the technology, but I figured once they had the digital DSD file, that could then be saved for future use.
Right, @@jrsanders5, so that only works for albums for which they have a DSD transfer. The gold CD of "Nevermind" was released in 1996, well before they were using DSD, and before DSD equipment was even available. They would need the master tape back to be re-transferred on the current system.
Thanks Mike!
This a collector issue not a sound issue. I think the value of these records will drop slowly over time as original pressings rise.
Good. More for real music lovers and less for pretentious collectors
Absolutely
This begs the question. Why bother playing them on a vinyl transfer? Can we buy the DSD files please?
Audiophiles wants vinyl magic, eg warmth, noise, pops etc
Thank you for this interview, Mike. Nice to have the clarity as a consumer but like you, it’s always been about “how good does this sound”.
This is a conversation between vinyl/music enthusiasts. A journalist would have held Mofi’s feet to the fire and asked the tough questions like how is transferring to digital not a production step in the one step process? And surely they were aware that consumers thought their product was all analogue so why didn’t they address this misconception about their product?
What misconception? They state "mastered from the original analog tapes". What part of that is incorrect? Master tape to DSD4. It's still from a master tape. Yes yes?
The first 2 minutes said it all. Thanks for digging into this.
These Guys are a CLOWN CAR SHOW with a traveling suitcase recorder. Of course they stutter and can't even speak.
You need to be open minded. So what if they were a little nervous? They are true professionals and they have pride in their work. Listen!!
And at 45:36
Thank you Mike!
Bear in mind if there had been digital copies of master tapes backed up on the cloud we would not have lost so many masters in the Universal fire from years back. Its just a good idea to have digital copies of some things.
Nothing wrong with digital copies of the of the ORIGINAL ANALOG Reel tapes... I got mine backed up.. 3 times 8 Track 1/2inch tape.... The original still KICKS FKN ASS !! 😝🤘
But yes, once digitized from the original sour, you get both worlds. 😎👍🏻
For me, the bottom line is honestly getting the best sound possible. Having said that, MFSL SHOULD have been far more transparent on the DSD transfers. I've lost a certain amount of respect for the label having watched this. I also understand it's a hell of a mine field out there for these guys. One more thing: Friggin RUclips commercials GRRRRRRRRR.
Ad blocker or RUclips premium
Why?
Based upon your assumptions?
Switching to RUclips premium for ads and playing audio in background was one of the biggest come ups in life for me hahahaha
No commercials for me , I have "RUclips premium"!
They transfer from the original master tape to 4X DSD to make their vinyl. It that is not good enough then there is no satisfying you.
Amazing interview Mike. You have done the record-buying community a great service. The engineers were tremendously generous with lifting the veil, and I suspect that is because a) you are a sincere, no BS guy and b) your store buys a helluva lot of MoFi records! TBH, the only thing that surprised me is that all of their current issues are DSD. I thought occasionally there would be a full analog release. The reality is that the master tapes of epic albums have significant historical and monetary value. They are also fragile. They don’t own the music. They borrow it. If I was the owner, of, say, the KOB masters, I would be very reluctant to let them out of my sight. That said, now I understand the “Mobile” in Mobile Fidelity..
When I got back into this hobby about six years ago, I purchased a few of the lower-priced MoFi offerings of a few of my favourite rock albums but I haven’t bought any since I learned from another collector that “some” were digital transfers. Instead, I buy AAA from labels like Blue Note and Analogue Productions. But this is only for reissues of “unobtanium”. If I can get an OG or analog reissue from a few years after the album’s release, I tend to enjoy those more.
HiFiNews & Record Review, the UK magazine, ran an article some 6 years ago, where they went to a London-based record pressing plant and the managers there went on record saying that 95% or more of all records being cut there were done from digital files. If I recall correctly, this was for convenience and cost, as it appeared so much easier to cut laquers from digital. If you just take Abraxas as an example, that master is over 50 years old now and if I were the manager of that sort of tapes, I'd never let them out of my sight. MoFi's process, where they ship an A80, ADC & engineer to site, does sound like a carefully considered process to yield the best possible transfer of that invaluable mastertape.
A lot of the comments seem like the teenagers who are embarrassed that they acted drunk at a party and latter found out the keg was N.A.
Can someone then explain to me how the one step releases are done and why are they more expensive than normal releases if there is a digital component involved?
A terrific interview. Fascinating, engrossing and highly informative. Thanks for taking time to get together to record this. The guys do a fantastic job- if only more in the industry had the skills and dedication to their art these dudes have. Thank you for the terrific (audiophile) music.
Great job Mike, you accomplished something big that the industry journalists never did.
Thanks Mike 45 too
There is a good reason why journalists were not invited to this. Mike did the best he could. However, he had them dead to rights on Santana and Mike did not know how to hold a formal line of questioning.
What we needed here WAS an actual journalist. Good on Mike but he’s not an interviewer and these guys took advantage of that. I have more questions now than I did going into it.
That’s true Mike is not a interviewer by profession. He’s not a journalist either. I think the guys knew that he would give pretty much softball questions. He never gave them any really tough questions or followed up on what he had to stay on Santana at the beginning. But he did get them to admit that they were doing a lot of DSD files.Not pure analog. I don’t think all of this controversy will hurt their sales too much. Certain people will stop buying from them to purists this is a bad thing. But most everyone else will continue to buy from them I think they have known that all along.
Did we watch the same thing? Mike just ran a commercial for them. Being a stooge for this public relations nonsense. "What was your favorite record you worked on? " What?! And then they can identify an album and how awesome it was, and oh, hey, that was digitized, see how awesome digital is? Come on now. This was just insulting.
So much to unpick here, the big take for me from this is how much of the Emporers New Clothes mentality has existed around these super expensive re-issues. In the end you have use your own ears and not be distracted by price or production technique. It puts into perspective some of the stuff Miles Showell is doing at Abbey Road which has come in for a bit of criticism lately, too me they sound great despite all the flack concerning hte digital transfer process. To quote Talking Heads "Same as it Everv Was" use your own ears and be aware.
That's the idea, so much info, but not a true answer to the real question.
One question which is essential for me to... Is my Original Master Recording of Miles David Kind of Blue an AAA, or was there a digital step in the production? Thank you for the clear answer.
They now added the following info for their Kind of Blue vinyl to the website:
1/4" / 15 IPS / Dolby SR analog remix master to DSD 64
Works for me. Thank you Mike! Can someone now stop Friday Music from calling all of their releases audiophile? Thanks in advance.
We were misled
, and thats not ok. Regardless how great the records sound, buyers were led to believe they were cut from analog tape in an all analog process.
And the 1 step, is NOT a 1 step, if theres ANOTHER STEP, that no one was ever told about! WTF?
This is completely off topic, but...
right after I got the notification that this video dropped, the mail lady dropped my first order from the in grove in which I took advantage of the ultrasonic cleaning service. It's such a good feeling to get 4 discs (from the Ennio Morricone Themes collection) that I don't have to clean myself. And the packaging was second to none. Mike making this video happen AND offering kickass service...totally fking rad. Thanks, Mike!
Didn't know TIG offered that service via mail. That's cool. I used to have records cleaned there when I lived in PHX. Those machines are huge, noisy, and expensive but man do they do a great job. Saved a few records from being trashed too (might have spilled beer on one of them in a late night session - sounds flawless after a US clean). Glad to see Mike is keeping it real here with this story. He's the one that recommended Dire Straits LOG MoFi to me instead of Japanese pressing. I naturally thought it was 'all analogue' as detailed in his 'Top 100' video post. Still sounds amazing but can't help but feel a little duped by the whole process now.
Excellent job Mike.
Hi Mike, what are the MoFi records you recommend ? What are the ones you use for demos ? Thanks.
The title Original Master Recording was definitely very misleading, no doubt! They are only talking about it now because they got caught, they only make a transfer from the original tapes, after that it's whatever they have to do to make it sound the best, which is fine but they should have been honest, they knew what they were doing. Makes me wonder about Analog Productions, I'd like the get Chads take on this, are the sneaking in DSD also!???
probably they are.
They are still not taking this seriously! Amazing.
These Guys are a CLOWN CAR SHOW with a traveling suitcase recorder.
Intriguing dialogue. Thanks Mike
Thanks for doing this Mike, hear in the UK. Interesting but I still like their product and will buy. Look forward to hearing more.
I want to know WHY THEY FLAT OUT LIED to Fremer. He claims he has an email where they stated Thriller was cut from an analog tape copy. They told him they would follow up and never did.
Bloody liars.
Probably just wanted to get rid of him.
Now that things are put to bed. Mike keep giving us your recommendations of great sounding music, no matter how it came to market. Thank you because this video has caused MoFi to at least rethink the way they do business (transparency) and understanding the expectations of it’s consumers. In the end, their overall mantra is to produce the best sounding album and that they have been doing across their product lines.
Amen, my brother. Couldn’t have said it better.
Absolutely.
I totally agree which is why I have been buying their records and cds since they started sell high end records and cds. No bad ones in anything I've purchased.😁
On the discussion at about 12:00, where different tape cals for each song make it impossible to cut analog live...can't you master onto 1/2" analog, one song at a time, and then cut from that?
Also, while I agree that the A-to-D conversion is paramount, I can't understand why the question wasn't asked: What A-to-D are you using? Kind of important as well. Doug Schneider / SoundStage!
Mike, thanks for having our back and getting some revealing information about the DSD step in the process. You are truly a passionate music lover and are willing to put yourself out there to get us some answers. What is disappointing is the name calling and criticizing the interview that I wasted my time reading. Keep rocking Mike I am proud to be one of many customers. When Mobile Fidelity puts those stickers on the LPs revealing source we know where it came from.
Just wanted to say Thanks Mike, you set out to find out if their is a Digital Step in the process - and you did. Job Done!
Lack of transparency, apologies, and consumers still being consumers in the future is now up to MoFi and us.
I have no reason to buy a $125.00 record. I’ve been buying vinyl since 1970 and I never stopped buy vinyl. Even in the 1990’s and 2000’s. This was the only way you could get great House music. From the King Street Sounds label and Wave music. By the way I never liked the Beatles or some of the classic rock bands or artists.
Does this mean that an SACD copy of their DSD transfer is the closest you can get to the analogue tape as its a duplicate
So you think their one step vinyl is more quality loss than downsampling 4xDSD to 1xDSD?
@@booom4849 as a blind test I bet nobody would notice to be honest
@@Chunksville It depends on the genre I would guess. I even hear smoothing happening in 4xDSD on aggressive e-guitars. I honestly don't know how 1xDSD sounds, I went straight to 4xDSD.
I’m wondering if Fremer will need to remove any titles from his 100 All Analog list. :)
You're looking at three crooks being exposed by Mike. No, they didn't committed a crime, but they capitalized on ''audiophile'' wet dreams of records being cut directly from the analog tapes which was obviously not the case.. They would have never come forward on this matter without being exposed. Why would they?! Almost every minute of this interview is a desperate try on their side to somehow tell the truth in a mildly way. They sold expensive dreams, in limited editions.
Good job, Mike!
I dont feel that way. Of course I wasnt ever the impression that these were aaa. Just didnt seem possible.
Its my opinion if they create a product that is the best in sound quality then theyve done their job.
I wasn't talking about the quality of their product. They didn't sold crap, they sold over-expensive records on the assumption of the buyers that those records are cut from the analog tapes. The limited editions probably fueled that assumption as well. But they became greedier by putting out 40k copies of Thriller and that was probably the point where the common sense couldn't be ignored anymore and the first shots were fired.
These Guys are a CLOWN CAR SHOW with a traveling suitcase recorder.
@@SeLfish1208 THAT'S IT !!!!!!! You got it !!
If they weren’t being deceptive then why are they so visibly nervous?
They should have been clear about what they were producing. The claim has always been these are all analog records and that was the reason why you paid the high cost. I plan on avoiding mofi releases.
I avoid digital records unless there is no other option and the digital cut record is the best sounding version.
I have always liked SACDs. I wonder what the benefits are getting the One Steps are when the SACDs are a fraction of the price? I will note the Dylan and Miles Davis Mofi titles i have on vinyl i am very pleased with.
With the one step vinyls, you can hear subtle nuances in the background, such as the sound of your wife calling to you from across the house about the outrageously large credit card statement.
Maybe I missed it but did they say what A to D DSD converter they use???
I'm retired from Warner Bros Television Burbank. Having been to many television recording studios, control booths it's all familiar to me. Warner Bros masters ,many, are in a very secret location in the San Fernando valley.. I have seen how they restore many of the great MGM & Warner Bros. classics. It's just so time consuming in the film world. Music it's very understandable. The tape speed, studio recording references etc...it's very true. One of them said, "They want the tapes to be flat, no eq etc...it's the optimal for a good accuracy tape mastering. Here's one question not asked, are all tapes they master, first generation true un mixed master tapes? Or safety copies, 2nd generation and on. Look at hundreds of thousands of tapes lost forever across the lot from us at Universal Studios. Gone forever Buddy Holly, Eagles...Chess, Decca masters!!! A well know incident in our recording industry.
According to Fremer the Buddy Holly's weren't destroyed, watch the interview with Fremer here: ruclips.net/video/R-a0jPl5ncw/видео.html
Mike, you are a legend for getting this interview! Holy crap. Thanks times a million.
He was a soft touch for those three smug guys.
What would you have asked?
@@FleagleSangria " why didn't you tell us the truth? Why did you lie? Since when does all analogue include dsd? And why with a lot of your customers upset right now do you all look so fucking smug?"
Then...dsd is the future, we get it, but.....
With analog tapes degrading year by year, DSD would be the best format available today and won’t damage any original masters in the process. And the end of the day, it’s all about the final product and I don’t care how they (MoFi) gets there, as long as it sounds awesome and is true as possible to what the original artist/producers and engineers created when the original record was cut and mastered. This news has no impact on whether or not I will purchase new releases, I have mofi vinyl releases, they all sound amazing and I will continue to support mofi and other reissue companies as long as they put out superior products.
Digital files are not an archival format They have to be continuously migrated to new storage media as digital storage advances. Tried playing a DAT, ADAT, or DASH master lately?
It's the equivalent of paying a premium price for Halal meat only to find out its not actually Halal.
It's ok if it's not Halal, but it's not ok that you haven't told me and you've charged me a premium price for years
I completely agree, just give me the best it could be. I don’t care how it gets to perfection. The final product is what I want.
@@ralex3697
So you'd be ok paying premium prices for "organic" food for a decade only to find out that the process of production of your "organic" food isn't actually organic?
Would you continue to pay a premium price just because the end product is good anyway?
Or
Would you be pissed off that you've been lied to and ripped off for a decade?
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 that's why I pay up for promo copy's of 60's and 70's lp
The labeling MUST be on the product. The MOFI banners are incredibly deceptive. Even their explanation of the One Step process is bogus, as it illustrates TAPE to LACQUER. There is ZERO mention of a digital step in between. Blatant false advertising.
And Mike was so aw struck he couldn't even ask any good questions. They must have given him some stuff or made a deal. He softened up like a baby for this interview. A total JOKE
40yr old digital! Donald Fagan's Nightfly is a great example... attention to every signal detail, a proper well executed process is what's vital.
Much effort was put forth deciding the capture platform to use; new 3M digital, or the best Studer analog.
They went to great lengths A/B testing perfect tape formulations, freshly calibrated machines, they compared the direct signal, vs the Studer, vs 3M.
The new 3M rig clearly was superior and that's the chosen platform.
Point being, attention to detail, and a "well executed" recording... proper gain staging, etc. is amazingly capable.
40yrs of digital development since, even back then in a controlled A/B it bested the analog platform for that element of the process.
It's remarkable what that production achieved.
That said, the dubious sleight of hand bullshit ... is a bad look.
Great job, lot to take in but it all makes sense. A few years ago I heard an interview with the guy who compiled collections for Time/Life (Sounds Of The 70’s etc), he explained the process of obtaining the master tapes and making sure it’s the correct mix. Not as easy as it sounds. In fact on those collections you will find the random alternate mix because it was mislabeled or the wrong tape was pulled. There is a lot that goes into putting this stuff out. I think a lot of people hear digital and turn their nose up. As the guys explained, it’s not that simple. Great video and at the end of the day product on your turntable sounding the best it can is the ultimate goal.
Does the source matter if it’s a great-sounding product? IMO, no, but transparency does. I appreciate their honesty. Thanks, Mike, for bringing this to light.
It’s not really ‘honesty’ if you only come clean after you are rumbled, bang to rights.
What Honesty??? These Guys are a CLOWN CAR SHOW with a traveling suitcase recorder.
The Brother in Arms MOFI vinyl sounds great and it is always sold out. Most people know it is from a digital source because it was recorded digitally, and MOFI doesn't say on any of the MOFI titles that there isn't a digital step. My concern is with the One-Steps, there is no sign of a digital step in the flyer. Not sure if it is greed or whatever, but announcing that there will be 40K of MJ's Thriller as a One Step was just too much for inquiring minds to avoid asking the questions "WTF, how can this be?"
@@jimbennett2795 ???
Good interview, good answers, enjoy the music!
The hemming and hawwing with plenty of caveats before answering if the process is all analogue.
That told me all I needed to know without having to watch the whole hour long interview.
I don’t mind if there is digital in the process.
Some of my old JVC and Denon digital mastered records sound fantastic.
Just wish MOFI had been upfront about it.
So if you like MOFI AND you really want the best sound, just buy their DSD/SACDs because their vinyl can only *hope* to be as good but never better than their DSDs. Also you save all the hassle that goes with vinyl.
@@chessnord7934 But... DSD can not be edited. Did they transfer the DSD files to PCM for tweaking and back to DSD or did they go to the analog domain to tweak and back to DSD? All I am looking for is the transparency of the process.
@@vinylrules4838 Those are industry secrets and they are not going to tell us.
@@SDsailor7 So again, Mobile Fidelity is not being transparent. There should be no "Industry Secrete" how they process the file.
@@vinylrules4838 Email Coke and ask for their exact recipe, if they don't give it to you they're not being transparent.
Paul from PS audio has been trumpeting DSD for years. He claims it as close to analog as you can get, without the downside of analog tape hiss. You also have the full dynamic range of the original masters. My CD of The Wall has a “warning” about being able to hear defects in the original source (tape hiss?) although I don’t hear any.
But what does he know…?
you are mixing stuff, if analog master tape has hiss and you convert that to dsd you will have hiss in digital fille, now if you will record session in dsd you should not have hiss because there is no tape
Paul is as crooked as they come. Wouldn't trust that guy to tell it straight. He only tells you what he thinks will make his wallet fatter. Case in point: on the PS Audio website they are selling "Paul's Reference" 1m power cable costing over $5,000 and "Paul's Reference" speaker cable for over $20,000. Does that sound like someone who is playing it straight or a huckster looking to con gullible audiofools?
@@jasoncarey2092 To be fair. That’s no different than any other company selling over priced cables.
Analog master tape has a dynamic range of about 80 dB.
A 16-bit red book CD has a range of at least 96 dB (in reality closer to 105-110 with proper dithering), so you really don't need DSD to get "as analog as you can get".
great job Mike!
What a great job Mike ! And thanks also Mofi team for explanations!
Mike
Thank you for an insightful and also cordial interview
You did a great service to all us record collectors
Please AVOID all the naysayers, those who attacked you etc
Step back, you don’t need to defend yourself from those less civil
Again thank you
They charge a eye watering premium for the One Step and Original Master Recording vinyl records. There’s an insert in the One Step titles literally showing a graphic of master tape > lacquer. There’s no DSD transfer step disclosed. THAT right there is all everyone needs to know. They got greedy. They saw an opportunity to press more records with a digital step and they kept their marketing as pressing all analog records that had the banner “Original Master Recording.” As a consumer of analog media, it’s not about the best sounding record, it’s about the best a company can do with the analog format, warts and all. I’m paying a premium for that experience. They KNOWINGLY made these records with a digital step but kept that fact hidden from all marketing and technical information available to its customers - customers who thought they were buying ANALOG records. If I wanted a the finest digital transfer of a master tape I would’ve bought their SACD for $30, not a vinyl pressing of the SACD for $50-$125! This is a very disingenuous company and am sickened about how much money I spent thinking I was getting all analog.
So what u are saying is u could not tell the difference???
So those records you paid a premium for no longer sound as good? They never, ever claimed all analog records. Sorry that you're butthurt that digital sounds great.
@@gordonshumway7465 Yes they did. Do you not own a MoFi title? They literally have a graphic showing “master tape > lacquer”. I’m not butthurt over a good sounding digitally sourced record - I bought HUNDREDS of them from other labels who never said they were analog cuts. However, I AM butthurt over spending THOUSANDS of dollars on records from MoFi that were being sold as a direct cut from the analog master tape. Yes my ass hurts a lot.
@@SPAZZOID100 I cannot tell the difference without a comparison, no. But if there was one cut from DSD and one from tape, the trained and experienced ear could. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to accept. Being an audiophile is a trained skill. You get better at it and the subtle differences become more obvious. Even with hearing loss. But, I never said I could tell if a record was cut from digital or not. I can’t. It’s easier to identify if it was a digital recording or an analog recording though. But you’ll never know if those MoFi records would’ve sounded better if cut from tape.
@@dconsmack Show me where MoFi states "all analog records". They didn't show the Studer tape deck in the graphic, so I guess you assume they somehow transferred the tape directly to lacquer, right? And also there were zero other electronics in the path, right? No cables either. Just magnetic particles from a tape straight to lacquer. Makes sense.
Great Interview... it opened my eyes up to the process in making great sounding records too enjoy!! I will still buy MOFI records.
now I'm curious if the Blue Note Tone Poet series also begins with DSD digital.
This was a disappointing watch. I really appreciate Mike for taking the time to get answers. MOFI treated this like a joke. I think it's safe to say that no one knows "what is what" I wish MOFI would of went about this differently.
I can’t wait for the analog purest to go nuts so I can finally afford these records
Haha...right!? 😅👍
You think a few of the secondary market prices will inch down?
My exact thought.
Are we any closer to explaining why the Mofi Abraxas vinyl sounds better than the equivalent SACD? Is it different mastering, compression, something else? Is it simply that turntable playback on a good system makes it sound better? Confused!
I think it is different mastering.
Fascinating interview, great job.
When I used to listen to vinyl when young (pre digital era) it was great to sit and read the info in the huge gatefold cover about the recording process and some of the equipment used and the people involved. I think this info actually ADDS to the appreciation of what’s been achieved. It shouldn’t be looked at as a chore. Having said that if 4x DSD is virtually transparent then buying that file makes more sense than buying vinyl, although I understand the whole vinyl lifestyle choice which is almost a fetish. ! Whatever you do, enjoy the music. R
"DSD Step" should be a separate term that shows it's as close to "One Step" as possible. The overall skepticism is 100% valid, but tbh I believe people are "boomer-thinking" on the dreaded D word. They're resistant to change (as any human would be), but with good reason...
As consumers we only know PCM digital--where the sound wave is boxy and comes off harsh. That's the harshness Michael Fremer says he can hear. Though my ears aren't as good as his, I restore damaged recordings from old media (on boxy PCM waves btw), so I have caught it many times. DSD digital faithfully reproduces the smooth sound waves as they should be.
With MoFi's use of DSD, and as they said here (with finding songs spliced into masters from repro sources), they could later assemble a proper "Original Master Recording" when that one missing original source is located--something that was previously impossible to do without ingrained hassles.
Although DSD may be in the chain, its use won't diminish ANYTHING like tape generation loss will. Essentially with its lossless nature, DSD is an "empty step" that could bring a LOT MORE "one-step" records to the public...
Thus if "DSD Step" was used as a term alongside "One Step", it would normalize it for the consumer by denoting its viability as a high quality final product.
WOW ! :) thank you for the video !
Great job Mike! I lived a few miles away from those guys and had a chance to meet Krieg and Shawn. They know what they are doing whether its digital or all analog. At the end of the day the question is "does it sound good to me?"
No, at the end of the day the question is, why haven't they been telling the consumer that they've been using a DSD transfer for years?
And the answer is, because it would hurt their sales
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 does that really change your mind if something is good or not? I mean yeah transparency is always the right thing to do. Sounds like they did it to preserve the tapes not knowing audiophiles would loose their shit
@@johnnelson4386
Whether something is good or not isn't the point.
Would you like to know what you're eating?
Or do you only care about if it's good or not?
What about buying a car, do you care if the vintage car you want is all original or do you only care about if drives good?
It may not matter to some, but most people want to know what they're paying for
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 oh I agree with you. Just trying to play devils advocate here. I actually grew up in Sebastopol and almost got a job at MF. I feel like they need to have a better labeling system for the consumers. I'm an analog snob my self and try not to buy anything digital however I'm not going to stop buying MoFI because they use a digital step in their process
@@johnnelson4386
I don't care about the digital step either, I just don't like that they haven't been totally honest
An excellent discussion! Lots of valuable information shared. Well done, Mike!!!
Does this mean that we can finally get back to the music and musicianship instead of is it analog or digital? 🤔🤔
both
I trust that these guys knows what they're doing, whatever comes out of this studio will be as accurate as it can be. It's great to hear in this interview how they are doing it. I do not care that there is a digital stage in there. It's there for good reasons. Keep up the good work, and gimme that one step Bitches Brew soon.
What a bunch of Sales Weasels! Using “Sales-Speak” to skirt around the main issue.
They have been deceiving people and will not just stand up, take responsibility and apologize for that.