NEW FRAMING Like You’ve Never Seen - Mass Ply Light House/Barn
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- Опубликовано: 18 мар 2024
- Matt shows us this innovative framing technique you’ve never seen before! Mass Plywood Light framing on a ranch property outside Austin, Texas - basically a giant timber framed house.
Matt and Trent from Timber BLDR introduce the concept of Mass Ply Light framing, a method using LVL plywood specifically designed for the project. They explain the process of laying out wall sections on the ground, affixing panels to columns, and installing windows and flashing. Structural details, such as hold-downs and screws, are discussed, showcasing the engineering behind the project.
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pet the damn dog
this builder LOVES plywood. id take this over OSB anyway
Dig deep on the mass timber products they're cool but out of residential price points.
It looks like that is starting to change with products like this. Bet you can get 40' 1.5" ply like this easily now and a special order 53'.
I'm very interested in seeing more detailed videos about this form of construction. Thanks again for sharing new methods and techniques. I use many of your videos and other resources for my continued learning.
*Matt Risinger* Bravo well done, thank-you sir for taking the time to bring us along. GOD Bless.
Very welcome! More to come on this project.
Wow, I'm looking forward to the rest of the videos to understand how this all comes together! I hope you can share what it looks like when it's done!
Thank you for the video. Honestly, I don't understand the "untrreated" Sill plate even with a sealer.
Other than that, I am liking the solidity of the design. Thanks for showing this. Really looking forward to more on this build!
Thank you for this wonderfully informative video on "plywood" building technique!
Well done, Matt!
Love stuff like this, the mass wood sector is really interesting to me.
6:48 this level of detail is all I needed to know he is a Jedi Master of his trade 🍻
Watching this from California, my first thought is that this would be great construction for earthquake country. These are dream shear walls.
The company that manufacture's the LVL for this video, Freres, manufactured floors and columns for and 18-story building in Oakland CA. You are very correct that these would make dream shear walls, and a lot of research is being done on mass-timber rocking shear walls.
@@collinbarkley9699 We had a soft-story seismic retrofit of our building which consisted largely of adding plywood shear walls. The amount of labor that goes into that process -- compared with just lifting these panels into place -- is staggering. I'm sure the LVL is not cheap, but you would save a lot on labor and time.
Tilt construction with MPL sounds like a no brainer. I'd like to see a video on the cons or situations you might want to use another method. Since this kinda reminds me of SIPs, it'd be cool to get a comparison video of SIPs and the MPL.
Sick stuff guys!
seems like the SIPS might be superior in terms of R value and rigidity. This method seems like it would really excel with controlling moisture penetration, pest penetration, mold. First time I've seen the rain screen principle actually applied. 175 mph wind resistance is impressive. That may seem overengineered but there are these things called tornados.
@@lkj974 Good points. I'm down in south FL, so the wind resistance is plus for us down here :)
You can tell this is going to be a super strong build! Great work!
Cost?
99% of the time anyone says "You've never seen this", it's because it's Beyond The Valley of Ridiculous Cost.
We will talk cost on episode 3 when we complete framing. I think you’ll be surprised that the price is lower than you would expect
You've never seen this because it's never been available here on any sort of scale.
Things can change and this is one of them. The same people will be building these in a different yet similar way with a similar skill set.
@@buildshowThat would be most interesting ... thanks!
Bet it's less than stick framing at this site.
@@buildshowWhen you talk about cost can you please compare it to the same building type and SF but using standard stick framing and standard pole barn framing? Include both the raw costs and the percentage differences along with per sf price. Also it would be great if you could break it out into material costs and labor costs so we can see directly how this method is more labor and time efficient since Trent noted the speed of the window flashing and install.
This is awesome. Very interested in learning more about the costs
Another epic video well done Rev. Matt!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Also love the nickname 😊
Hi Matt,
Fascinating video! A couple of comments above seem pretty skeptical of the properties of plywood. Perhaps in the future videos you could address two issues that I’ve seen impact longevity of plywood.
In roof decking I’ve seen premature delamination due to high temperatures caused by improper ventilation. It seems like your insulation will be quite sufficient to prevent this, but perhaps we’ll learn more when you roof it. I know you love that standing seam!
And of course, there’s always moisture control. I’m interested to see more of the details around moisture management since you always seem to be very thorough in that regard.
And if there is a situation where a moisture issue isn’t identified in time, are there repair procedures if part of a panel needs replacement? I’m thinking of a video you did about problems on a remodel with a modern silhouette…might have been OSB but ended up with serious rot pretty quickly. Could be interesting since the plywood probably couldn’t be sistered like traditional framing.
Something to keep in mind. This is LVL not normal plywood. Stronger glue, certification, much stronger. APA certified lvl is just a different beast. And we will be digging into more detail on a future video.
Yeah simply walking through the basics of modern lvl/ply is a good idea.
Most people have seen more 1970 ply than 2000+ ply. They think it's the same.
Looking forward to it!
All the skepticism in the comments is why we need these educational videos! People take personal offense to different things, but trust me these videos won't hurt you.
Preach Brother!!!!
Funny how often people that haven't used a system but claim to have been doing the trade for 30 years are always the ones saying it's junk and won't work.
These are the trades that were trained by building inspectors and have never owned a code book let alone read one.
Sad because there is so much more money keeping up you're education.
I worked on top tier houses for 20 years and they buy in bulk, I made less gross on them because their was less managment and sales.
THEN when their friends in the SUV line at the school need someone to work on their 1-3 million house it was closed on a 10 min phone call.
When it was another call I had to go sell, after 10 years, I'd just point out which homes and builders I worked for.
Learn the tech so you get the bragging rights and can stand behind it.
Quality isn't the years you've worked and people that want quality or just to not have hassles will pay.
Everyone has bad stories of people that have been doing it for 20 years destroying a home.
Unfortunately there are more tract homes so there are a lot more trades out there where the boss shows up to bid a job in a jack new truck with black rim.
Please for the love of God don't hire those people.
Hire the guy that bought the fancy truck 20 years ago and is still driving it and will tell you it was the worst financial move of his life. That guy knows a lot.😊
Builders tend toward the conservative side, so it's to be expected.
10 years before it rots or is eaten by bugs? No thanks.
@@BS25999 Oh please, don't be so ridiculous, I grew up in a wood framed house built in 1911 on the wet pacific coast where termites exist in the soil and earth quakes happen and it is still standing today serving another family.
I have to disagree with you. I think his constant pushing of best built practices ends up standardizing very expensive techniques that end up being adapted by local code. Pushing the cost of building out of reach of lower income people. My area hasn’t adapted every ridiculous best built practices and I can build for 25% cheaper then the neighboring county.
Computer modeled to 170MPH winds? At those wind speeds it's not necessarily the wind load that should concern you as much the Buick.
how does it deal with water leakage or high humidify into the ply? Accidents happen; like pipe burst, clogged drains or AC goes down mid summer for a week.
It'll swell we all know. I just wonder what repair is gonna be like.
yeah i wouldn't use this stuff anywhere outside the sahara desert
You have to waterproof it. It’s expensive
No inside drywall or cavity insulation means this is a very resilient home. A leak is spotted immediately and nothing to mold
I think you're a bit out of date on how stable this quality of ply is, including dealing with water.
It's common that people think of all the plywood they've seen in thier life including the 1970 tract home roof sheathing as one product. It's not.
Everything in materials is in the product specifications. Way diffent performance levels.
Geek out on CTL and all the mass timber products. You could do this with a solid lvl wall and people would be less skeptical, which is funny since lvl is plywood.😊
This a great video. Love idea of building with plywood.
Im sure you're familiar with CLT, cross laminated timber. Similar concept but can be used for high rise buildings.
Yep sthis basically the same type of material. Mass timber uses all kinds of built up lumber so CLT vs LVL is just two different products in the same tool box.
Location on top of a hill … makes sense to have plywood beams …for wind stressed areas…. Nice building..
Give that guy his vest back!
What goes outside the rock wool insulation before the exterior veneer? How is that insulation protected from water and mold?
Rockwool is highly resistant to mold/mildew/bacteria. Totally inorganic, so not much likes to grow on it.
Cool stuff!
Matt, I believe this is called cross laminated timber framing (CLT framing), or at least a variation of it. Most CLT framed homes have more plies in their walls than this project, depending on how much strength and thermal mass they need. I saw a video on a CLT home with plywood walls over three inches thick. It's a fascinating way to build, and since it sequesters a lot of carbon in all of that wood, it can actually be very eco-friendly as long as the wood used is sustainably harvested.
Mass timber is typically made with dimensional lumber(1.5” thick). The project I’m on uses 2x6 in 3 or 5 layers for shear walls and floor deck
does timberbldr have a youtube channel ?? have not been able to find anything yet.
Matt, Trent,
This Mass Plywood Light Framing does check a few blocks for me as an ole Design & Manufacturing guy. Perhaps you've heard the world's #1 Master Guru of Design & Manufacturing, Elon Musk, say "The Best Part is No Part, the Best Process is No Process!"
This system by design eliminate mass parts, studs, all the Processes of Measuring, Leveling, Nailing hundreds of Studs and thousands of nails!
Now, if the plywood was only built with Huber Zip type water, air, vapor membrane Sheathing it would be even better.
Haha, but at what cost? 😜
I'll take Huber Zip all day long over regular OSB, plus WRB & Prayers for Air Tightness!
I'm looking fwd to the next video.
Cheers, Eric
I feel like you glossed over the wall assembly. I'd very much like to see how it's done.
I shot next Tuesday’s video here today. I go into more depth next time
Matt, you once toured a home that had 5" CLT panels for the interior walls, no sheet rock IIRC. Are people still doing that?
Is that my only option if I want to be able to anchor heavy things to any point on the wall (rather than worrying about studs) ?
I'd love to have a workshop built like this just to have wood blocking anywhere and everywhere.
So the resulting shell holds itself up?
looks awesome, if it is indeed surprisingly price competetive this could be a very cool option. i fear it will only be such in certain markets and almost always exclusively for more luxury builds.
big fan of clt this is cool
I have trouble grasping what the LVL panneling adds compared to girt + traditional sheathing, wish an explanation was provided there.
Ok good. I’ll add that to a future episode here
@@buildshowMatt point out the thermal performance difference of stainless steel screws. People mention it sometimes but don't do a walk through with number and energy loss. I ran the energy cost of stainless vs standard rodenhouse screws 4 years ago and was shocked at the difference. Never again will I think it's just a few screws.
It was a metal roof assembly the screws attached to on the outside of the envelope so that made it more extreme.
Thank
Rodger
Why don't you rest the bottom edge of the 1 1/2" plywood on the concrete so it is structurally supported, and not just hung onto the framing with screws?
Gimme two layers of 3/4" ply, offset from each other, in jumbo form factors like 8'x32' or 10'x40'. Seams (vertical and horizontal) become the weak point framing with 4'x32'. A 10' wide panel can frame an 8' window in the center and remain structurally strong all on its own. Do it right and a tight nail spacing will give you tons of strength without using any fancy Simpson hardware.
I like the build idea, but the contractor is asking for trouble with out using a treated plate. I am a builder in Texas and The Hill Country has a ton of termites . Good luck on the new building process.
Excellent point. However, we used termimesh at all of the penetrations in the slab. If you’re not familiar, it’s a physical barrier for termites. Fantastic product.
Fascinating process. I can't imagine how much more expensive this style of build would be, compared to conventional, stick-framed construction. Also curious how this would compare in cost and performance versus ICF construction.
So basically 8'oc Superstuds and Supersheathing.
Man I really wanna see more about this build. Can you explain the big gapping in insulation around the window frames?
I'm guessing they left it off til the window bucks were in, then will fill in after. Same for where the "sheathing" laps an interior post, seems they left that off to fasten to the post and will fill in after.
@@stevengruner6435 that makes sense. Thank you!
Yes left off so we can detail those areas then fill in later
@buildshow Matt point out the thermal performance difference of stainless steel screws when doing an install like this through the insulation. A lot of thermal bridging product for commercial but ussaly see screws going through on residential systems like this. Even if youre thermally separated i think a lot of people will do a DIY exterior CI and not know how bad normal screws are vs SS. The $200 vs $50 a box screws pay for themselves pretty quick.
People mention it sometimes but don't do a walk through with numbers and energy loss. I ran the energy cost of stainless vs standard rodenhouse screws 4 years ago and was shocked at the difference. Never again will I think it's just a few screws.
It was a metal roof assembly the screws attached to on the outside of the envelope so that made it more extreme but still.
I trybto keep stainless 3" screws around now. But only in my truck😊
Thank
Rodger
How many square meters is the floor area on that place? It looks huge!!
and I'm looking at it thinking "okay, they left a gap behind the purlins for vertical plumbing and wiring, but how do they get around the corners?"
I'm a retired traditional builder and I have no idea what the heck I'm looking at.
Those horizontal 2 / 4 blocking. It's pretty strange and I don't know what's going on in that 1 corner where they're angled down. But I guess I'll watch the next video to see The continuation.
It’s mentioned in the video. There is a space behind that horizontal, blocking for plumbing and electrical.
I mean it seems cool but I’m skeptical. Definitely will be following this build!
07:40 interior grade, i know it will be covered up but still I'd love to see an exterior grade screw for all those fasteners.
I saw the title and kept waiting to see the plywood lighthouse with attached barn in Massachusetts.
Hey Matt, how many times have we both done remodel & found big time wood rot thankx to plumbing or roof leak that went un-noticed for a while? Just suggesting Sir,, a quick spray coat of paint primer sealer on all rough-in material. so future overlooked leak, wont cost a lot of rough-in replacement or cause any dangerous health hazard black mold growth. I admire your ability to know exactly what your paying for & selling
100%. For a guy who coined the phrase if it doesn't dry it will die, seeing him push this material.... is bizarre to say the least.
Shouldn't the black screws be the brown exterior grade ones?
8' on center columns like a post frame
Is this cheaper or about the same as a post frame?
quite the hard hats. and that hill looks like it would be windy forever, not sure i'd want to live in forever wind.
What are the benefits?
None really except for bragging rights.
Potentially cost, but it also looks like, with the addition of a crane, that it's nothing of the sort. I was floored frankly by how this was put together - and not in a good way.
Compared to a Steel frame that would typically be used here we have multiple benefits. “Normal “ tools, easy to nail/screw into for finishes & trades, less condensation/thermal bridges issues, carbon sequestration, renewable lumber and great use of materials. Plus it will look amazing inside. Rather like a modern log cabin
@buildshow Matt I did this on my home in Denver 20 years ago when I built a modern 1910 warehouse look. A lot of restaurants in older warehouses here with interior exposed brick and beam. For a decade I'd have to go to dinner with people who loved the look. Then after someone finally asked I'd start pointing out it was surprising the building was still standing when converted and point out all the "hack" work that they knew would be covered and is now exposed.
Unbaked brick for repairs and supports on 18" beams that supported an upper floor??? All the time.
Will this have lightning protection? Interesting methods
Everything of this level will. I had a client that had 3 lightening strikes on houses. One burned to the ground.
His 4th house I worked on was a ranch house like this and he wouldn't use gas because of the risk of any problems when no one was their, all electric ranch in 2008
I like innovation as much as the next guy, but I like to start with "what is the problem to which this is the solution?"
Very cool method, but how does that work with fire ratings?
I cant figure out any benifit to building this way vs building a sheeted post frame on a foundation.
Final seconds of the video "what does it cost" answer "be ready to be surprised" he says.... something tells me I won't be surprised
You are a “half empty “ glass guy aren’t you?
@buildshow 😁😁😁 half pessimistic, and half of me thinks the glass is actually 2 times too big 😆
Bet it's about a buck a face foot when buying it at the scale the installer gets it at. So guessing under 2 a face for the framing material. Install who knows but I'm guess dried in and insulated I bet it's within 20% of stick framed to the same level. Maybe the same price typically.
I'll say it's 20% cheaper than stick framed at that location because of the labor availability and drive time of a crew if it's more than an hour outside the city.
Cranes are your friends.
This is the future, ladies and gentlemen.
"We put a knockdown coat on the plywood and it looked just like drywall."
YIKES
Its amicably shear walls make the wall and flying in place logical and easy as long as its perfectly square and your slab is perfect. Engineered lumber is stronger and straighter than conventional 2x material. The plywood is extra strength. This building is stronger than a concrete building!!!
What does it cost ?
I’m glad I got out before I had to wear them scooter helmets.
I'm loosing my hair at 54 and all the scars for 20 years are showing up more and more. Stitched up the face but didn't bother to most of the time on my head.
My advice if it's a mass of blood, scab and hair holding it closed after a shower go have someone stich it up.
OH and carry liquid lidocaine in you gloves box. I call ahead to emergency rooms to check the wait. Last time I called an urgent care a mile from my new house I told them what I needed and checked how many people were ahead of me. When she was suprised at the questions I was asking I said "I'm going to be a regular". 😊
ICF over everything
How is this different from cross-laminated timber?
Cross laminated timber is plywood built up to dimensional sizes so its the same.
It's all in the specifications of the material. Since the company doing the install does mostly commercials, which have higher requirements usually, I'm guessing it's on the lower end of lvl spec and on the high end of plywood spec.
A lot of framers may their own lvl beams on big houses.
I learned how to do it when I had to pull in a buddy that worked on top tier homes to fix my stair way going up two flights and surrounded by concrete.
He called to ask what 22" lvl would run and his sales guy said you don't want to know, when I asked how much that was he said he didn't know but we were going to be making a custom lvl and got to work.
It ended up having two drops in it over about 16 feet.
I had a curved metal roof and he made sure to tell me to not buy radius trusses if I built one that need them. Then did a walk through of the price to build them vs buy them. So do that if you ever need exposed radius lvl trusses.
Doesn't even require fancy glue because the large surface area, and you use 1 1/8 structural ply for all of this.
Now that I'm thinking about it I be avantech might be better. My to do list now has reading spec sheets and call Huber tech support added to it.😊
I don't like the way the sill plate was proud of the posts and I also don't like empty wall cavities for air to convict in there. However, I don't know what they're doing with those walls.
was that material from Freres? they pronounce those rs.
Freres Lumber in Mill City, Oregon, @FreresWood. Come visit the plant @buildshow, Matt Risinger, you will not be disappointed.
@@markatkinson7463 I'm familiar with their plywood.
Plywood tilt wall ..................Seems like an awfully expensive way to build a home.
I don’t think risinger builds anything “inexpensive”
Will agree on that one!@@BK-fy2xi
@@BK-fy2xi Don't confuse "inexpensive" (as in less total money spent) with "cost effective" (bang for the buck).
You can get cheap build that's still not cost effective (paper walls etc.), extra expenses that add ton of value (heat pumps, solar, storage, insulation etc.) or extra expenses that in reality reduce value (McMansion roofs for example) and anything in between.
I don't mind (watching) expensive builds, after all we have in Poland a saying that translates to "who's going to stop a rich man?", but this build seems to be neither cheap nor cost effective.
@@MikrySoft I don’t want to sound like I’m knocking him. I’ve learned a lot from watching him and he has revolutionized building practices. Things that I would never have thought of. Sometimes I feel though that his builds are so far out of reach for an average Joe. I would definitely use a lot of his build practices though.
Rich people who don’t pay taxes don’t care. It’s Texas.
Cost per sq ft?
Very common question that we get. The answer will be coming in a future video as the build is not complete. We can share with you all day that in theory it could cost X dollars but we want to be able to give you a real world as built number and to do that we need to finish. I can tell you now that the numbers are looking very good.
I’d hate to measure the formaldehyde levels in the house when it’s completed. 😂
He’ll install extra Zhenders for that.
Go for it.
I'm sure Matt would let you.
I bet it'll be lower than the level you're implying and what you'll claim it'll be.
How much you wanna put up?
The engineered wood manufacturing process lowers VOC's. Veneer processing is an even lower emitter than lumber. The veneer for Mass Ply is dried to a lower moisture content than lumber for comparable mass timber products. The lower moisture content of Mass Ply veneer leads to lower service emissions of formaldehyde than that of lumber. This difference is especially pronounced since the hot pressing of veneer further reduces in-service emissions of VOCs.
Tell us about that big white rock out there.
Yak yak yak
Fire code approved?
Always fun to play with someone else's money..
Nobody concerned about the number of structural screws into end grain plywood or what happens when those bottom plates get moisture in them?
This can be done by double layering 3/4in sheets and zero beams
By definition this is double 3/4 sheets in thickness but sheets won't have the strength of this because of the seems. Can't imagine how much of a fudge factor a structural engineer would put in for that. They would just treat it like 8' sheets terminating on post every 8'.
Which would be a problem since all you're sheer capacity went right out the door.
So I'd say you can't do a build up of sheets with more than a 24 or 36" span.
Yes I know you can get longer sheet than 8 that's why I said 36.
@sparksmcgee6641 the structure would be square. 3/4" 20'x10' sheets. Floor would be 20x20. 8x sheet standing vertically make the inner walls of the square. II . Then 8x sheets stacked horizontal to make the outer square . = . This creates a cross hatch layering.
Hey Matt… let them know to fix their hyper-links at the Bottom of their website… to go to their actual RUclips,X, and instagram accounts
Gone With The Wind!
Someone didn't watch the video.
Reminds me a ww2 mosquito fighter/bomber airplane.
I bet a Superior Walls building would be stronger and definitely cheaper, and quicker. Good way to piss money away
A concrete tilt up would be less work . I still think it’s cool though
"Was Wood" and water doesn't mix.
Cool stuff, but I bet it's expensive out the wazoo.
Matt: “what is the budget for your new house?”
Client: “please keep it under $5M, definitely no more than $10M”
Anyway it’s always interesting to see how top end custom building is done, since 99% (I don’t think this number is exaggerating) of homes are built pretty much the same way.
Sounds like a $10M house project.
10,000 sq ft Texas home?
IS IT ANY CHEAPER? THE ONLY QUESTION THAT MATTERS, OTHER THAN IS IT STRONGER ? Neither QUESTION was answered in this video .
Rad
Beautiful but expensive. Please let us know the cost.
Bet it's the same as stick framed at this site location.
Did I miss wall performance
Starch that vest a little more next time. It’s a bit wrinkled 😂
Cool tech, but you should also talk about cost per sqft.
$1,000,000/sq ft. There, happy?
😂
Soon
What is the purpose ? Heavy, to many brackets, expensive screws, all expensive ply construction, Great for expensive cost. Expensive to insure, Is there some fire rating to chase, or earth quake concern. What is the gain ? Just questions from a 45 yr commercial carpenter bridge builder. In my years a lot of this re-event has gone to the way side or just other past ways are just as good.
All your pipe and plumbing penetrations through the slab are missing pipe sleeves.
more glue MORE GLUE
Seems like an engineer spec house and not really dealing with the elephant in the room. What happens when that plywood gets wet. The outer sheathing will probably be fine since a lot of builders use plywood and a Tyvek membrane. Not sure why you would use plywood for rainscreen spacers. Definitely not a century home in my opinion.
You used tyvek and 100 year house in the same comment. 😅😅😅
Basically just a pole barn using LVL and plywood (rather than pressure treated 6x6 posts, framing lumber purlins and painted metal siding and roof panels) and I did not even watch the video. Not a bad idea, but I would prefer ideas that use no wood at all to prevent fire risk, water damage rot, termites, etc.
This has to be some type of a Gubmint project.
The building industry answer to go green or go home to home builders?
clearly alot of the commenters have no experience with LVL
Interesting, but why would anyone do this when ICF construction is better and cheaper?