Health Insurance in Our Early Retirement
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Thanks to the viewers who have asked about health insurance in our early retiirement. We are finally addressing how we pay for health insurance without going broke.
Between the Affordable Care Act and healthcare ministries, we've tried a few options. And, our situation will be changing again when we're nomads in 2020.
Did we answer your questions? Can you lend anything from your situation to the conversation? Please comment!
#healthinsurance #earlyretirement #FIRE
Here are some of our favorite services. If you use our links, it will not cost you anything extra. We may receive a commission if you sign up. Thanks if you do!
***Thanks to points and miles earned from credit cards, we save lots of money on travel. You'll see some of our current favorite credit cards on this page - links.gowithle...
***We use Travel Freely to manage our credit cards and to help pick our next card - it's free! - links.gowithle...
***If you’re interested in becoming a house sitter (or you need a house sitter), this is the site we use with a discount! - links.gowithle...
***One of our favorite free money tracking tools is Personal Capital. Our link gives you $ upon signup - links.gowithle...
***Mint is another free tracking tool we depend upon - links.gowithle...
***We use GoogleFI (Amy) and Mint Mobile (Tim) for our frugal cell plans. Both of our referral codes should provide you with a discount
- Here's our referral code for Google Fi - links.gowithle...
- Here's our Mint Mobile link - links.gowithle...
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About us...we are Tim and Amy and we retired early (in our 40s) after reducing our expenses by $6,500 a month. Most surprising isn't what we're missing...it's how wonderful and rich our life is with our lower spending. We like to share what we're doing and learning here on our channel.
Please check out our other videos. They cover house sitting, award travel/travel hacking, and our early retirement/FIRE (financially independent, retired early). And, of course, travel! Lots of our videos show the fun stuff we do on a budget around the world.
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Thanks for watching! See you next Wednesday!
THANK YOU for doing this video on healthcare!! I was anxiously awaiting this video and would be grateful if you & others would continue to share your struggles, ideas, solutions & outcomes. Healthcare is a huge fear of mine when I think about possible early retirement or in the event of a job loss (We are 58-59 with pre-existing health conditions). This was very eye opening and your willingness to share and the details you provided are much appreciated. I am inspired by your journey & look forward to seeing more of your adventures!
Thank you so much, Theresa. It's just crazy that figuring health care is such a challenging thing, isn't it? What a health insurance company calls a pre-existing condition might vary from company to company so possible that your fear may not be as big as you're thinking. I will send you good vibes!
@@GoWithLess The good thing is the ACA protects people with pre-existing conditions. In other words, outside of some of the "junk insurance" policies that have found loopholes around the ACA, plans have to insure you.
The scary part here--and sorry if this comes off as political, but it's a fact--the Trump administration and the GOP are in the courts as we speak trying to get the ACA to be ruled unconstitutional. In addition to people no longer being protected with pre-existing condition, there would no longer be subsidies. In addition, Medicaid expansion would go away and children would no longer be able to stay on their parent's plan until age 26.
Let's all hope this doesn't happen.
Great Video! Sorry for the intrusion, I am interested in your initial thoughts. Have you considered - Renannah Tiyily Release (do a google search)? It is a good one of a kind guide for learning how to get the ultimate millionaire mind minus the normal expense. Ive heard some great things about it and my cousin after many years got cool results with it.
After 20 years in the USA, I moved back to the UK. One reason was healthcare but also to be back near family. I could never understand the antipathy and mistrust of national healthcare (universal healthcare). I retired 5 years ago. I am now 60. My prescriptions are now free to me. I can choose my GP. I can get referred to a specialist of my choice. I have no co-pay and need no insurance. Non-urgent things take longer, often, but you learn to live with this. It all makes retiring a heck of a lot easier.
Hi GoWithLess!!
We have been out of the US for 6 months now! We have a medical plan through IMGlobal. We chose a moderate deductible, and the plan covers us around the world, including the US. For the two of us in our mid-forties, it is just over $2,000/year. And it is for a full health insurance plan (it’s actually through United Healthcare), not just travel emergencies. They did underwrite us to not cover certain pre-existing conditions-for example, me with migraines are not covered. Thankfully, we haven’t used our plan yet!
From my understanding (we just did our taxes!) you do not need to have an ACA plan if you live outside of the US for a certain numbers of days each year. Also, I believe the proof of coverage is being dropped for 2019, also. But please double check all that!
The good news is that you have time to work out some of these details! Insurance is such a hassle, but necessary, especially with prices in the US!
P.s. You both look like you’ve lost a lot of weight! That fitness/health plan must be working!!
I suffer from migraines as well...I find they are most common when I've had sugar but sometimes they are a mystery. I think my generic pills are pretty cheap...like $12 for 18 which usually last about 6 months. What are you doing for yours? Migraines suck. Even a little one is horrific.
I think the individual mandate for US health insurance goes away this year, but, also something to check. Tim is reading about it out loud and it seems there are a handful of states that DO require it.
We will look into IMGlobal! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Nicest comment ever...thank you!
What blows my mind is that many Americans scoff at retiring abroad saying the taxes are so much higher, but in the EU, residents enjoy stellar healthcare that is free. In
countries like France or Italy, retired Americans living abroad can get insurance for about 900 euros for the YEAR. Retire abroad folks!
People crying about high taxes as a reason for not moving abroad in retirement haven't a clue what they're talking about. WHO's last evaluation of health systems in the world's countries ranked the US as 37th for Overall Healthcare System Performance. France was #1 and 20 of the top 25 healthcare systems were in Europe. I've lived in Europe for the past 12 years and worked paying taxes the first 6. I found my income tax in Europe to be equal to what I would have paid in the US.
But, in all honesty, I'd just as soon people don't move here. The longer countries can keep from being infested with people from outside the longer we will be able to enjoy the reasons we are here.
Wow, why is this country so backward when it comes to health insurance?! It's distressing to learn all those issues and all those things to watch out for. Thank you for sharing.
I have a suggestion for you that's only related to medical insurance via IRMAA. You mentioned that you have tax-deferred savings available for use down the road. If you don't touch that pot until you hit the age when Required Minimum Distributions begin (presently 72, but could change) then you may be subject to punitive levels of income tax. I suggest that you investigate the use of annual Roth conversions to move at least a portion of those savings into a tax-exempt environment while you're in a low tax bracket. If you max out your income in the 10% or 12% bracket for these conversions, you may avoid paying tax at the 22% or 24% bracket later on when the amount of the annual distribution is out of your control. Clearly, this is a complex situation as it also affects your medical insurance premiums, both directly and thru IRMAA (which is an income tax administered thru Medicare) when you're 65+. However, you might want to look into it and run some scenarios to find out... I wish I had.
I worked for 32 years in law enforcement and pay 1450 a month to cover 4 people. I retired at 58 because of health reasons. The actually cost to the county is 1900 but give me 500 to put towards it so it makes it 1400 with a 6000 deduction. The 500 can be used towards Medicare if I reach 65. I looked at the ACA but with pension/457b i make to much money to quality for any help and it was actually more then the county plan. So I just pay it every much and it makes me unhappy because I could use the money to fund my kids college or enjoy my retirement more. I don't trust the religious health companies and have heard many stories about a serious illness and you end up ruining you financially. I am a devil in the details guy and the only thing I can do is go back to work to get benefits but that also makes me unhappy. This country really needs a one payer system!
This video is scaring me. Finding good insurance sounds like a ball of confusion.
Like many of us Health Care is the only thing stopping me from retirement i am 61 and plan on taking SS at 62 and this all seems so complicated I just have a hard time understanding how in the US today why health Insurance has to be so expensive and complicated and why perscriptions have to be 2-3 times more expensive than other countries my wife is self employed so we are dependent on Corp health care where I work which is not cheap either but its a good plan. I am looking into moving to another country like Costa Rica where its cheap to live and great health care for a fraction of what it cost here. Great Video by the way.
Thank you for watching and for commenting. Health insurance in early retirement is a HUGE concern for so many (including us), and the #1 question we're asked. I think there would be many more people opting for a different life if health insurance wasn't a deciding factor. We also have our eyes open for other countries that might work in the future.
Glad I came across your channel. I am retiring early in 2 months at 51 and not looking forward to dealing with US health insurance. I will Cobra for 18 months and by then my income should be reduced for ACA and if that turns out to be crap, I will return to the UK and deal with US tax nightmare 🤪🤣 When I came over to the US from the UK 22 years ago, I didn’t plan on staying very long 🤪 I also didn’t really have any clue about taxes, healthcare or retirement - being young and excited at AMERICA 🇺🇸 Looking forward to watching the rest of your videos. Where are you planning to travel to?
Wow. US health insurance, especially outside of your job, is so. messed. up. Incredible. Can it possibly get worse? Seriously thinking of moving overseas to retire.
Thank you so much for doing this video! It's of great interest to see how other's are coping with this asinine healthcare system for early retirees.
In our area if you make even 40 thou a year, the ACA will charge close to a thousand a month for insurance. Still working but eligible or Medicare now. That would cost 300 for Medicare and you need AARP supplemental to cover the other 20 percent Medicare won't cover so that would be close to 600 a month. Even if you vote Dem and Medicare is available for all, it's still going to cost to insure a family.
Health insurance in the US is a huge mess. :(
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wow.... i thought i had my healthcare coverage figured out for early retirement. this is exactly what i am thinking of doing. rely on state subsidized health coverage. min/max income level is similar to what you are quoting. i have option of 2 providers in this plan and both requires doctors in network. it's good to hear i am not only one thinking of this because i am jumping into early retirement right now... getting my feet wet. thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching. It's been 4 years since we have had to find our own insurance. It's a major ordeal every year because it changes. Even if things look good now, that can change next year. Sadly, it hasn't changed for the better so sorry to be a bummer.
Thank you for tackling this subject!!! No a lot of videos on this Very important aspect of the FIRE movement.
This is a great explanation. The best one on RUclips. I am in a similar situation and no one understands how complicated it is. I would like to move to Florida to retire early but figuring out the healthcare there has been a big task. The area I’m looking at Is set up for mostly Medicare age seniors.
You're right...it's complicated and it changes frequently. Florida has the benefit of no state income taxes so that's a plus.
HELP... I had to stop working due to Cancer 3A , and my insurance at work will be over if I don't pay the COBRA costs of over $600. dollars. a month..... I applied for SSDI but you know how that goes...
I'll get medicare if I am approved but they rarely approve anyone here in Florida. , so I'll have nothing if It goes to appeals process.... what options do I have? I'm 50 yrs. old so .....
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Was wondering, I have a HSA Qualified Health Exchange Plan with BCBS. The maximum out of pocket is 6k. It’s also a PPO and has Heath Providers Nation wide since I travel a lot.
My question is about the monthly premium for this plan is $1100.00. Is that high, low or average ? I went with a Health Exchange Plan because I had a pre-existing condition and I’m 62 years old.
Thnx.
Because the cost of health insurance has so many variables (age, who is insured, your state's plans, the plan you choose, and what it covers), it's hard to say without more info. Our ACA plan didn't cover us out-of-state other than truly catastrophic events and, even then, it was unclear what they would pay on a claim.
Thanks for this video! This is one of the most difficult to understand how to budget for. My wife and I are 60 and getting ready to retire. Our income from just our investments are going to prevent any subsidies, but how can we figure out how to estimate the monthly cost.
Thank you 😁!
This video seems to be disabled. Will you be updating it anytime soon?
When you say disabled, can you not see the video or it’s 6 months old? We plan to publish an updated version this coming Wednesday!
@@GoWithLess On my laptop, I can view all your other videos. When I click on this one I get a blacked out screen where the video should be. Maybe it's on my end but, all the other videos are viewable.
Oh no!!! I will investigate! Thank you for the heads up.
It looks okay on my end and there are no warning of it being disabled. I'm sorry it's not working but hoping it's not for all viewers. I send people this link often because people ask about it our health insurance all the time.
Thanks, i checked again still black. i was able to watch on my phone though. Nxt mng decided to take a pic for you as you were so proactive and it was viewable! It will remain a mystery. This topic is so sought out I look forward to the update.
I’m 48 years old and looking at retiring at 55 years old. I currently have $39,000 in my HSA account I’ve built up in the last 20 years. What HSA amount should I strive for by 55 when I won’t be able to get private insurance through my family business if I decide to retire?
@K Maxx I actually like this line of thinking as it's a good goal to shoot for and makes alot of sense. Thanks!
I'm 58 and retire in 2 years. I get totally funded health insurance for me and my family from an old job and pension, starting at 60. No premiums and it covers me my spouse and my kids until they finish college. Question is...should I take it, or stay on my spouses insurance through work?
Is this a serious question? :) If yes, why wouldn't you take the free option?
GoWithLess because it might invoice changing my doctors and hospitals etc
jjgreek1 That would be something for you to consider. Free healthcare (assuming it’s good coverage) sounds phenomenal. Is there a high deductible? Is the company offering to provide it forever? Do they cover current pre-existing conditions? Maybe make a list of pros and cons with expenses attached and start there.
kaiser is so terrible if you need anything more than a check up
If I'm 55 in 2019 and decides to stop working starting January 1st of 2020, how would the ACA determine my income with regards to subsidies? I plan to start withdrawing from my 401k or stocks in a way to maximize the ACA subsidies.
When we purchased an ACA health insurance plan online, we had to enter our estimated earnings for the next year. After the year is done and we submit our taxes, it's adjusted based on the actual earnings. Does that make sense?
@@GoWithLess Ok so you have to apply for the ACA health insurance to get the subsidy? I was wondering how you were able to get that. My husband is still working so we get health insurance through his job but he plans on retiring early in the next couple of years and we wondered about that. We plan on getting on one of those religious medi share plans. I have several family members utilizing those programs and I'm pretty impressed with them. You have way more freedom to go where you want to go for treatment.
Please tell me what the name of the insurance that is good for expats as we are planing to be out of Country for a few years. Thank you
There are many options. We've been working with Good Neighbor out of Phoenix and highly recommend Tracy Winters. She's knowledgeable and patient.T hey focus upon expat and travel insurance.
Sorry couldn’t finish watching, very high pitch. Thanks anyway
She can’t really help it though
I'm curious why not get medicaid instead of ACA - why do all the acrobatics with income? I'm also considering to R.E. but the healthcare is a beast.
We researched for a year moving to Mexico, we went and visited the place we chose, but it is too hot and I can't deal with lizzards/snakes/scorpions (not even to see one once a year!).
Europe would be too far from my children.
I'm out of options and feel cornered by this system we live in...
They are not qualified yet because of their ages
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
I gave it a thumbs down only because I was looking for something that I would qualify for which I didn't. Plus it helps me keep track of which videos I want to come back and revisit without saving to a folder. It was good info but I dont qualify for COBRA, ACA, medicaide, or medicare and I'm 63.
I appreciate your explanation for a thumbs down. It's about the nicest reason possible for a thumbs down, I guess. Sadly, there isn't a great option for healthcare in the US.
The reason it’s more expensive to insure women is because they consume $.70 of every healthcare dollar.
A hospital bill will bankrupt the average american..
Yes...awful.
I'd like to retire with an investment worth at least $4MILLION and I'm ready to work towards this goal, I've come across investors making as much $75,000 on a monthly basis and I'd like to know what step and guidelines I need to make better profit
OMG! IM VOTING FOR BERNIE AND MEDICARE FOR ALL! ACA is overwhelming!!!!
Yeah... NO. I'll just work until my 65th birthday, which will be my early retirement.
I don't blame you...hope it isn't too far away.
@@GoWithLess Thanks for the great content though. Liked the vid.
Thats what my Dad said. He died age 64.
@@nickv4073 I'm sure he had a reasonably long and productive life.
@@csApollo11 You missed my point but that's okay.
"We signed up for a plan that Im not going t name because we didnt like it and I dont want to get sued?" Thanks for nothing then...........CLICK OFF VIDEO.
Great video. Healthcare should not be this this stressful what are they going to cover and who can I see for a doctor. I plan on paying out of pocket and my guess it will cost me $25,000 per year for 3 of us for an ok plan. Crazy!
Yes, it's crazy!!! $25k is a lot of money.
Health is health😠 back or spine
Best to keep working if possible so have reasonable healthcare.
Many keep working for this reason.
Not sure I feel great about being your age or older, working hard every day to subsidize the ACA plans you’re enjoying in early retirement.
smccrory b
spine surgery probably the last thing i would suggest for proper health, unless of course you were looking for total disability social security , pays better. you talk about traveling about the world can't imagine that with a back so bad it required surgery
today its cheaper to just pay cash and take your chances. It's probably the only reason I haven't pushed into retirement. Insurance is a monopolizing racket designed to NOT Pay for ANYTHING. They have shareholders and they are only in it to make money.
The line about insurance is right..."Hope for the best. Plan for the worst." No insurance in the US and a major accident or illness could totally wipe us out...and quickly. We don't pay for health insurance for the normal stuff. It's to protect us from the big stuff. I hope I don't have to use it.
Right up until you have a major illness or accident the bill will bankrupt you.
HE talks: volume Up
SHE talks: volume way Down
5 minutes later: leave the channel! (tired of having to adjust the volume back 'n forth!)
Why just go to the doctor if you don’t have to?
Healthcare is HALF our cost of living. It's ridiculous! Thank you for putting this together.
I have a health share while we are in the USA and yes, you can use it as "health insurance" on the IRS requirements for coverage. The primary reason we went with a health share and not traditional insurance is the in-network requirements of most health insurance companies that do not work for us as we will be in multi-states.
I'd love to know what you do for insurance when you become nomadic. We used GeoBlue while we were outside of the USA for the last 2.5 years. It covered us everywhere in the world except the USA. They were easy to use and we had no hassle whatsoever getting our medical issues covered including a knee surgery in Panama.
Good feedback, Bonnie! In the 2.5 years you were outside of the US, did you have the health share? If not, what did you do for insurance when you visited the US? We will be very interested in your Panama experience so will make sure we talk about it when you visit us ONE MONTH from today (happy dance!!!!).
You guys are too young to be retired! I plan on retiring early, too! I've been working on my investments and passive income sources. I just started my channel on personal finance...check it out :)
Hello and welcome! Congrats on starting your new channel! Hopefully, it helps you reach your goals. Sometimes the accountability can be a big help. Do you have a year/age in mind for your retirement? What are you planning for health insurance?
GoWithLess Not yet. I'm primarily concerned about being able to retire early, not necessarily stop working completely.
Good luck to you!!
I hope this answered most of your questions. Please let us know if it did...or if you have others. What are you doing for health insurance? Does it affect your retirement planning?
You two are really cute. Thanks for sharing this topic with the world. At the end of the day, the US healthcare system is basically the worst ever. I'm not FIRE yet, nowhere near, but I am considering and saving up to take two years off work, before transitioning into a new career. The healthcare question is my biggest hurdle to-date, but sometimes makes me consider not taking off at all As a country, why we decide to tie someone's health and well-being to a company, I'll never know. Also, I have to think about the outside coverage thing too, because I live across the country from my family and would like to be covered whenever I visit, which I plan on doing regularly. I'm working toward FIRE and toward this two-year mini-retirement, but at this point, the way I see it, I'll have to add an extra $5,000 a year, at minimum, for my healthcare to my general cost of living number.
Thanks for the nice compliment. Yes, the US healthcare system IS the worst ever. It's the #1 hurdle/challenge people mention when they consider FIRE. We have far from figured it out and it changes constantly. I hope you love your mini-retirement. When do you think you'll try that out?
We are 51 and 54 and retiring the end of 2019. Healthcare is our big worry. We also have 401k(ira's) to convert to ROTH, some ROTH money we can use, and some rental properties to sell to help us along. We are trying to figure out the best tax strategy, along with healthcare strategy to use at this time. Great info and we plan on watching more of your videos for advice. Also liked your FB page and plan on following you all there!
Heathcare and long term care are our biggest concerns, too. And, it's the thing that seems to concern most of our US viewers. Our international viewers (1/3 of our audience) seem to be amazed how big of a deal it is here.
I recently saw on one video about a couple in their 40’s that reached FIRE that moved to Portugal that has healthcare rated much higher than the US. Anyway for the couple and their 2 kids they only pay around $1500 yearly 😮.
@@opaljohnson7428 Sounds like "Our Rich Journey." :)
Danny Perry Yes indeed. I’ve learned a lot from them. Hope to retire in 4 years and my employer will pay my healthcare costs. It would be scary Not having that assurance
Great video, thanks for the candor. Beware, I've read nasty things about Azimuth: like they don't pay or pay very late or pull out micro-font disclaimers and exceptions. Fighting with insurance company is like a fight with a ghost. Best wait for it to go collections and have no accessible liquid assets and nothing vulnerable to a lien. Sad.
Very helpful comment...thank you. We haven't looked into Azimuth since we did this video but we will look at reviews online before we sign up with anyone.
I was watching 1930's film of people in NY and kept wondering how they survived without health insurance. Now we are convinced we can't live w/o it.
I was taken with how complex it all sounds even when two articulate professionals explain it.
Wonderful info. Thank you.
The exorbitant costs of prescription drugs, medical treatment and health insurance premiums in the US is shameful. When we're in other countries, locals ask us about it. Over and over, when we share that people can go bankrupt or lose their home because of their health, people seem to feel sorry that it's the reality here in the US.
Thank you for watching and commenting. This tricky issue continually changes and is our biggest challenge. And, we're healthy!
What did they do in the '30s without health insurance? Loan sharks, begging from family, becoming crippled, deformed or perpetually sick, addicted to opium, and of course dying young, very young, of silly things like pneumonia or infection. Can we live without insurance? Absolutely! Enjoy.
@@press2701 Health procedures were also much, much cheaper in the 1930s. A couple visits to the hospital didn't cost as much as your house.
Who says they didn't have health insurance? It started in the 1930s in the US.
Health insurance companies didn’t a lobbyist & no regulations to overcome and thus less legal fees back then
Please don't shout, no need to. I am using headphones.
S CT sorry!
This is so funny watching you guys now. I think I saw a downsizing your house video years ago. We are joining the FI community in five years. Funny if I would have researched you guys more back then we would have been there faster. Cheers! Thanks for the vid.
Ha!!! You're our new advertisement! :))) Welcome back!
Please update this topic regularly. How is Liberty working out? Did your Dr. Office bill Liberty directly? I wonder how health care providers react to it. We had KP - they are great in Colorado but we had a long extended prob when our daughter got a scan while at college in Maine. Finally resolved in our favor. KP had to pay a penalty of $700 for the mistake. But insult to injury - paid to the hospital! Not me who was fighting it for a year. You cannot win with Insurance.
I answered many of these questions a few hours ago on another post so will copy/paste it here. (Plus, then others here can read it!)...
Tim had back surgery in 2016. When we signed up for Liberty, they stipulated that they would NEVER include anything on his back. Even something unrelated to the surgery. That's why we need an ACA plan. We don't plan to use that ACA plan unless it's for Tim's back.
We were reimbursed for 1 annual exam for Tim and it took many months for the check to arrive (I forgot exactly how long but maybe more than 4 months for less than $100?). I had my general doctor bill them directly and that was done without issue. I didn't pay anything out of pocket for my visit.
Their customer service has been friendly and very knowledgeable. And patient.
Here's our challenge and we learned it after we released our health care video. Despite being totally up front with Liberty about our plan and asking dozens of questions on 10+ long calls with them before signing up, we were surprised by the following...
WE consider Liberty our primary insurance and they are our fist line for all care (unless Tim needs attention on his back but he has not since surgery 3 years ago). The trouble is, Liberty considers themselves to be secondary, after Kaiser. Now, the only reason I have Kaiser is because there was no cost for me since Tim needed it. I never plan to touch it...ever.
I now need to submit all bills from health care providers to Kaiser, wait months to get a response from Kaiser that declines the bill and then submit the bill to Liberty. That, plus months for their process to cut a check makes the whole thing an admin challenge and thankful we haven't had much $$ tied up in bills.
Had I known this, I would ONLY have Liberty. I REALLY want to see any doctor I can and our biggest issues come from their pre-existing condition for Tim's back and our double insurance.
This healthcare issue seems to change often. We could do a video "What's happening with Tim and Amy's healthcare" nearly every video.
Health insurance in the States is critical. Here in Canada we are fortunate with our Health Care (OHIP). Private health insurance in Canada is a complete waste of money. I am extremely close to retirement and have started to retrieve some information regarding private health care. I can honestly tell you that private heath care plans in Canada are an absolute scam. All plans have a yearly cost. The one plan I was looking at was 249.00 per month plus tax which amounts to $3376.44 per year. This plan included some dental, eye care and prescription drugs. There was other minor coverage but I cannot remember what it was. The big hitter for us was the drug plan. It only covered $2200.00 per year worth of drugs. We are on approximately $4000.00 worth of drugs per year. This means that after reaching our drug limit of $2200.00 from the plan, we then pay out of pocket for the rest. So lets do the math. The plan cost per year of $3376.44 + $1800.00 from out of pocket cost = $5176.44. It will be cheaper for us to pay all our drugs out of pocket ($5176.44 - $4000.00 = $1176.44). I will keep the $1176.44 in my pocket instead of wasting it on this ridiculous plan. As far as dental is concerned, I will gladly pay for our two yearly cleanings worth approximately $300.00 per year. As far as vision goes, many vision care places offer a free eye exam if you purchase their glasses or contact lenses there. All these Canadian Plans are similar. If you are a Canadian Citizen, I urge you not to waste your money on these heath care plans. Thanks
Thank you for sharing, Norm. I thought Canadian health care was very affordable. Surprised to hear the cost of your prescriptions.
Sadly we decided we simply can't take the risk of travelling withing the USA on the ACA. I know in theory the ACA covers you for emergency care anywhere in the country but honestly I can't see how you can avoid getting screwed somehow if you end up in the ER out of network (Balance billing for a start). We now do all out travelling out of the country because trip insurance is remarkably cost effective (we use Berkshire Hathaway). So road trips our out, but extended vacations to the far East and Europe are in. I am an expat Brit so we could high tail it back to the UK if we had to but the US is home now so we put up with the crappy HC system for now.
We haven't fully investigated expat health insurance options. Thank you for the BH tip...we will look into it.
Thankful I live in a country that has universal health care!
Yes! That’s a huge deal. Medical coverage is one of the biggest challenges in the US.
If you live in the UK and the next Tory MP that says we need to privatise the NHS.. Just remember what they really mean by that... Massive profits for HC providers and drug companies and costs with go up by 2 to 3 times! My mum and Dad back in the UK have to wait for non urgent appointments... But they would cost thousands in the USA... $zero cost to them.
@@frankish5314 Completely agree, I live n Canada. Our system is not perfect but it's almost perfect. Would not trade it for anything! Our drug costs are ultra low too.
So true! I have recently been financially raped by our "healthcare" system.
Thank you so much for this video! I totally get how you're saying "sorry we don't have a one-size-fits-all answer for you". It's just really nice to hear your so-far experiences, and what you're thinking about all of this. We've been really befuddled by this aspect of early retirement (our dream), but when we heard you say "ACA...subsidized per your annual income", we were like oh....THERE it is!!! That is the thing we hadn't realized, is that it is so much cheaper on a typical retirement income than it would be for us right now. So thank you!! You are SO INSPIRING!!!!!
❤❤❤ to you!!!! I hope you live in a state that offers reasonable options. I hope you reach your dream soon!
Please read my line previously about how the ACA is currently in danger. :(
the health sharing ministries seem very suspect to me. i wonder if they cover birth control? or same sex marries couples? not that insurance companies aren't suspicious themselves, ha!
Those are good questions. We don't have many options...sadly, we have to take what we can get.
ACA...lol
I was forced into early retirement at the age of 63.5 in November of 2017. I had two months of health insurance--so in February 2018 I joined Christian Healthcare Ministries. I had no pre-existing conditions and I can use it any where. So long as the incident is over $500.00 they will share it. I pay $150.00 a month plus $40.00 per year for unlimited catastrophic insurance, plus $25-30 a quarter. They are excellent and fast in processing.
J Lee . Christian Healthcare ministries unfortunately is not available in all 50 states. For example they can't insure you if you're a New York State resident.
That sounds very reasonable. Nice that they process quickly, too. Tim's back surgery makes things tricky for him to get coverage.
Only in the USA!
J Lee Yep.
@@farmerdoc2924I will check into this as I am not aware of this restriction.
Does pension income count
We don't have income from a pension so our answer would be uninformed and we don't want to give you bad advice about something so important. Ask a professional...maybe a CPA?
Yes
Health Care in the US is total racket and will inevitably crash, but not until they drain every possible cent they can from people
Wow 14 $ for kaiser... I am tempted to ask why not just have that - whats the catch?
Each of us has an annual $6,000 deductible AND we can't use the doctors we know and like.
vijay anandh
No doctors can be found to accept the plan.
GoWithLess,
I found your channel a couple of weeks ago and have thus far enjoyed hearing about your journey through early retirement. Like many of your other viewers, I too was wondering what you were doing for healthcare insurance and how you were paying for it. Why? Because, like you, my wife and I chose to retire early. However, unlike you, I wanted no part of the ACA and having to accept a subsidy (aka handout or charity) in order to be able to afford healthcare.
My wife and I dealt with the ridiculous cost of healthcare in the US a different way. When we retired, we sold everything we owned, and moved to Mexico. Here we have full coverage healthcare through a private Mexican health insurance company that costs us $2,600 per year. My unsubsidized health care in the US (BCBS of Texas) was costing us $1,900 per MONTH.
I look forward to hearing more about your travel and experiences in early retirement.
Regards,
Troy
Mexico is a very viable option when we put down roots after our nomadic travels. What has been your experience with routine or urgent medical care in your new country?
GoWithLess,
Fortunately we have no reason to use any of the doctors or medical facilities here. However, we have had several friends who have. All have had positive reports about their experiences.
Regards,
Troy
Health insurance is racket in this country. If you don’t read the fine line your can be fudged big time :(
You're right. :(
You are supposed to read everything.
Health insurance documents is no different than anything else.
I checked into those health ministries, by investigating their bylaws and tne print in their documentation, it shows that they have a right to not pay any claim. They also report that they are NOT insurance. You are throwing your money down the toilet. I was an insurance underwriter so I knew where to look.
We know others who have had positive experiences with them for the past few years. Unfortunately, we don't have great options.
If you have no Health Insurance, or under insured, self employed, or financially challenged, you can receive access to Healthcare through a Membership in the National Motor Club of America- our Security Shield Membership at $29.00 a month offers access to Teladoc- a Network of Board Certified Physicians who provide consultations either by phone, or thru video conferencing, who can diagnose illnesses and dispense prescriptions to your local pharmacy. You receive unlimited access for yourself and up to 5 family members, in addition to other Healthcare, Vision, Dental, Prescription and Hospital benefits. Our Membership is much better than AAA- visit www.nmcfs.com/61154 for further details.
I haven't used it as I am still working, but I looked into Cigna Global with high deductables, since I am pretty healthy. I think they have good global options with various deductables
Do you know if that's travel insurance or international health insurance? I'll have to add them to our list when we get planning our nomadic healthcare! Thank you!
We joined CHM for $300 a couple per month. No deductible as such but we pay the first $500 per incident. No restrictions on doctors or hospitals at all.
Is it global?
Check out their website or their RUclips channel--it will answer all your questions. They are located in Ohio. I use them too and am considering keeping them as my secondary when I go on Medicare in September.
What does CHM stand for?
Christian Healthcare Ministries@@debbiekohlFL
Yes it is global.Check out their website.@@lolal2502
For your ACA insurance (Kaiser at the moment) it seem to me that you are missing a significant benefit. You qualify for two benefits, 1) The tax credit and 2) Cost sharing reductions (CSR). The tax credit piece of the puzzle you have very well figured out. The CSR, not so much. I realize you lean towards HSA plans, but the benefits of Silver plans with the CSR benefits seem to good to ignore. CSR benefits are only available on Silver plans and these "turbo charged" benefits come into play when your MAGI is less than 250% of the FPL, which in your case would be < $41,150. There are 3 levels of turbocharging based on income. If you are keeping your MAGI below $24,700 you qualify for plans with extraordinarily low deductibles and greatly reduced annual max. The is mostly true as long as you keep your income below $32,920. You can run the estimates on the Connect for Health Colorado anonymous shopping tool.
True, but the HSA allows you to reduce your real income which can be a massive benefit if you would otherwise have too much MAGI to qualify. Bronze plans (ours has a $13,200 deductible/OOP max) are OK for us who never go to the doctor except for the annual check up/prescription renewal and wellness exams.
We are in a similar sitution as Frank. Investing the maximum amount in an HSA has been part of our strategy. Starting in January, we are hoping to stop using the ACA and transition to an expat insurance plan. I appreciate your comment, Chris, and hope it helps others navigate their options. What you explained is new for me. Thank you!
Can you tell us what investments you have which don't produce enough interest, dividends and capital gain distributions (from sales made by the fund manager during the year, not you) to put you over the subsidy threshold? As an early retiree, I invest aggressively in mutual funds but they throw off too much "passive income" for me to enjoy the ACA subsidy.
Our investments don't produce high dividends or capital gains. We're in funds like VTSAX. Until we sell the asset, the taxes are fairly low.
Health insurance is my number one concern with early retirement. If there was a good option, I would already have called it a career. Looks like I will end up with a job at Starbucks or somewhere else that offers bennefits to part time workers...sad.
Is moving to another county an option? If not, are you able to qualify for an ACA subsidy? It's just awful that you have to work to maintain health insurance.
@@GoWithLess Keep working or move to another country? Seems like "six of one half a dozen of another" to me. This means leaving my family, friends, professional network and liquidating my paid for house. Not a great option. There just aren't any really good options right now.
@@rickforse8518 Qualifying for an ACA subsidy is only based on your Modified Adjusted Gross Income, nothing else. Perhaps you can manage your income since your house is paid for to keep it low enough?
@@rickforse8518 Agree - none of the options are great when it comes to healthcare in the US. :(
@@chrisadams6971 Good suggestion!
Yeah, get spine surgery and nobody will touch you except the person who gave you that surgery. It is the story of my life. I’ve had 2 spine surgeries so I’m a massive pariah. Lol
That totally stinks. :(((
Is an early retirement payment will change when you reach the full retirement?
We will move to Medicare in the US when we become eligible. That will be in 13-15 years.
No, once you file you are fixed at that benefit amount plus cost of living adjustments
We are retired and have Tricare through military. We pay for as I am retired reserve and not active duty retired. Yes there is a difference. Once I hit 60, premiums will be covered by DOD. Premiums are $1100/ month and deductible is $150 each, total of $300. It is portable in US and also overseas travel. Cost is expensive to us but as you stated we need due to medical issues and need to be covered. We are currently age 57 and 56. We live the nomad life style now and probably for next 5 years. We have an RV (5th wheel) and I pull it with a F359 dually. Good luck to you.
That is a lot but if it totally covers you and has such low deductibles and you have health issues, it's just something to budget for. The tricky part is when healthcare costs are unknown. Your nomad life sounds fun! Are you touring the US or also Canada, Mexico, south? How long have you been nomadic? Any lessons to share since we're living out of a suitcase in a year?
GoWithLess we have been nomad for almost 1 1/2 years. Traveling US first. Want to get to Alaska down the road nd see parts of Canada some day also. If you go nomad get what you are comfortable living in. Also costs are factor. We sold home and use proceeds. Will take SSN at 62 for deed income and my buy home at that time.
@@dbulsa What an incredible life!
If you like your doctor you keep your doctor. Ha!!!!
:)
Why not keep your income low enough for SNAP and Medicaid?
Hi Steven! That's a good question and one we answered on this thread. We'll be lazy and copy/paste instead of writing a new answer! I hope you'll forgive us!
Our dividend and interest income puts us too close to being above the Medicaid threshold. We also rely on capital gains from our investments and we are never 100% sure what this income will be in a given year. If we were relying on Medicaid and our income was too high (disqualifying us from Medicaid) we would be in a bind - too much income for Medicaid and no ACA coverage (as we understand it, you commit to one or the other at the beginning of the year). We do not have any issue with Medicaid and believe it is a valid option if you qualify.
I really appreciate the video and you sharing your experiences. I'm cautiously optimistic that by the time I'm able to retire (a little early) that it will be either easier or there will be better options. How much time would you say you spend researching what plans / options are available to you?
We spend hours and hours and hours choosing our healthcare and it's ongoing because each year it all changes. We hope it gets better, too!
This is great information. I liked your ten(?) part series on how you retired in your 40s. The trickiest part of planning to retire early, for me, seems to be health insurance. Thanks for covering it here and being real.
Hi Myles! Thank you so much. This health insurance piece continues to be a challenge for us. We're in Mexico for a visit now and I'll be getting a dental cleaning tomorrow just to see what it's like. We hear that medical treatment outside of the US can be excellent. Let's see how it goes tomorrow!
Also, you might like a quickie video we did about early retirement - it's the closest this we have to a viral video. : ) ruclips.net/video/35DO-NoupRg/видео.html
Any questions we can answer?
Hey there, Amy and Tim! Thanks for all of this info. This is a big consideration.
Thank you!!! We need to get together!
Nice video! We are traveling internationally with our family for the long-ish term. For the last 9 months we’ve had an ACA Kaiser plan (with subsidies) plus World Nomads travel insurance. Per Kaiser, they cover emergency care abroad, but really any accident/sudden illness would be covered by World Nomads, and Kaiser would only enter the equation if we (God forbid!) had to return to the US for extended care. I’ve got a claim out now with World Nomads after our 3 year old needed stitches in Spain - looking forward to seeing how that goes!
Thank you for sharing what you're doing for healthcare. Isn't it crazy? What state do you call home? I'd love to hear more about your international travels!
Great video! Hope this healthcare topic remains in the series. Two questions: What is wrong with just using trip insurance that includes health insurance? And what is wrong with the ACA cliff to medicaid insurance? Both are government subsidized health insurance.
Thanks for watching and for your excellent questions! There are many different types of trip insurance that cover a wide variety of things. However, we’ve never seen a trip insurance plan that compares to comprehensive health insurance. Most trip insurance is designed for emergency visits and/or getting you back home to use your primary health plan. Tim had a herniated disc a few years ago that required surgery. If we were abroad with only trip insurance, this surgery would likely not be covered by any trip insurance plan (at least not the plans we’ve reviewed). Also, if we learned we had cancer, we wouldn't think trip insurance would cover something like that. Trip insurance seems to exclude pre-existing conditions and ongoing treatment.
Our dividend and interest income puts us too close to being above the Medicaid threshold. We also rely on capital gains from our investments and we are never 100% sure what this income will be in a given year. If we were relying on Medicaid and our income was too high (disqualifying us from Medicaid) we would be in a bind - too much income for Medicaid and no ACA coverage (as we understand it, you commit to one or the other at the beginning of the year). We do not have any issue with Medicaid and believe it is a valid option if you qualify.
Hope this helps!
@@GoWithLess Electing Medicaid does not prevent future timely enrollment into an ACA plan. The loss of Medicaid is considered loss of Minimum Essential Coverage and creates a Qualifying Event for your to enroll in an ACA plan. That said, Medicaid is a state/federal partnership and coverage outside of your particular state is very iffy. Also, access to doctors in a timely fashion, or even access at all can be a big issue.
@@chrisadams6971 Helpful info, thank you!
The only thing being subsidized are the insurance companies and a pittance for your medical expense. I wish ACA worked better.
Very important subject for early retirees. When you talk about income, you should be qualifying it as your 1040 MAGI, not your gross. So its pretty easy to stay under say 50K MAGI and get the ACA subsidy. Also if you had fallen below the income bend on ACA you would NOT qualify for Medicaid because you have assets. You can also contribute to your HSA yearly to lower your MAGI which I see as a huge bonus. I have been on ACA for 3 years with 3 more to go to 65 and have very low payments (zero this year). I am glad I do not have as many years as you have left to wiggle your way through this jungle. As far as I understand the policy I can get urgent/emergency care anywhere in US. But I have not tested that...
Thanks for your input! You're right, we should have specified the income as MAGI. Keeping our MAGI low allows us to get a nice ACA subsidy but it means we can't take full advantage of converting traditional IRA investments into ROTH IRA money. Also, Medicaid seems to be based upon income, not assets (www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/eligibility/index.html). We have asked some of our insurers about out-of-state coverage (in the US). It sounds as though you're right but "emergency" is the key word there. In a conversation with one of our past health insurance companies, it seemed like life-or-death stuff. Even then, there may be a big out-of-pocket bill.
question if you applied to ACA in 2018 what year do you have to prove your income and how do you prove it, visavis above? Are you required to provide tax returns or will 1099s or bank statements in 2019 suffice? Big problem I see is if you have a large income before applying for ACA, then a small one, you lose any subsidies in the application year.
@@fredost1504 You are wise. To enroll for subsidy you do not have to prove anything, you use your previous tax statement to come up with your best income estimate for the upcoming year. Then after that year completes, ACA will send you a tax form to use for your taxes. This adjusts the subsidy to match the actual MAGI for the past year. If MAGI is lower than estimate, they increase subsidy as a tax credit. If actual MAGI goes too high (above 400%), then you lose entire subsidy and have to pay it all back as a tax owed. So you need to be able to control your income or you could get a tax bomb. But so far, in my 4th year, that has not been a problem.
@@fredost1504 When you sign up, you estimate your earnings for the following year. You receive a subsidy (if you qualify) each month. If you predicted incorrectly, it would catch up with you at tax time. Plus, there may be penalties.
@@GoWithLess With the advent of ACA, for those under age 65 Medicaid is based purely on MAGI. That is not true for 65 and older where assets do come into play.
I'm a US expat in China and have lived without insurance for over 10 years because of the cost. We find it cheaper to just go out of pocket. We got a prenatal and birth plan 7 years ago for a great price on the Chinese equivalent of Groupon. I have looked at many different plans from local Chinese insurers to big names like Aetna to medical sharing groups. I nearly pulled the trigger twice on them but it's just crazy money for us, insurance that we almost never use shouldn't cost more than our rent!
Thank you for sharing your situation, Steven! On a side note, I'd be so interested to learn more about your expat life in China! That's not a story I hear about often.
@@GoWithLess That can be a novel in itself. Flexibility is the key to not going bonkers, there are alot of benefits to living abroad... I've had a lot of great travel opportunities and have a lot of interesting folks flow through in my life.
@@Steven-rn2bu this option is good, if you stay in one country most of the time. What if you are nomad and staying in different countries a few months at a time?
I don't think it's wise to go without insurance, one accident can bankrupt you no matter how young you are.
Very informative guys, glad you’re sharing this!
Thank you for watching and commenting!!!
So crazy, cracked up when Tim said, “in order to have my whole self covered.” Sometimes I wonder where this world is going. Great video, so informative. Please continue to update us on your healthcare journey.
I got a kick out of that too! Appreciate you watching!!!!!
Awesome vid, thanks for all the time you spent putting it all together!
We always appreciate you watching and commenting, Todd!!! Happy you liked it!
Will you be covered when you are overseas? Since you plan to be away a lot this year that question comes to mind.
Yes, for sure, we'll get health insurance for our time on the road. Currently, we're looking at Azimuth but we're at the beginning of figuring it out.
For short trips I wouldn’t worry about it. We don’t. Also depends on where you are. In some countries in Asia , like Thailand and Malaysia, it is cheap and good. They have ‘ medical tourists’ , from other Asian countries , Europe, the Middle East and the US. In Singapore it’s very expensive, especially for foreigners. But since you plan to be on the road for a big part of the year, it’s good you are looking into it.
Is healthcare in Singapore expensive for locals? Is it anywhere near as crazy as it is in the US? It's interesting to learn what people do in other countries.
It is much higher than other South East Asian countries but not as crazy as the US. Let me give you 2 examples. Total knee replacement surgery costs less than 12k USD in Singapore but only about 5K in Malaysia. Cataract surgery ( one eye) costs less than 6K USD in Singapore but less than 2 K USD in Malaysia. I understand these procedures cost a lot more in the US. These costs are what citizens pay. Permanent Residents pay 20 % more. A foreigner up to double.
We have health insurance here too but we pay much lower premiums. We also have an account we contribute to while working, we can tap on that for in hospitalisation costs. Room charges are pretty high, as high as our hotel rates! But one can opt for cheaper 6 or 4 bed rooms. However with an Aging population we have a short supply of rooms. We also have discount schemes for certain segments of the population like lower income and also older people. Those born before 1950 qualify for ‘ Pioneer Generation’ discounts. My Mother in law who is in her 70s had a fall 3 years ago and spent half the year in hospital and rehab, fortunately it was discounted due to her age.
We are a population where every 5 th person is a millionaire in USD terms, because our real estate is very pricey. An average family 3 bedroom apartment costs more than USD 1 million. In fact with 1 million you would have to buy a really way out( but then Singapore is small so how way out can it be ?) and old unit, small, less than 1500 sqft. That would be private housing. Even some of our public housing flats cost almost 1 million USD. The average landed house costs about 3 million USD and these would be the lower end of landed housing. So asset wise we are Crazy Rich Asians!
Thank you for explaining all of that! I think it's fascinating to see how much things cost in other countries. Tim and I can spend an hour or more in local grocery stores. We like checking out what's sold as well as the price. Same with windows of real estate offices. Let's hope we don't need medical attention in Singapore! Sounds like a quick trip to Malaysia would make sense if we did! Have you ever gone to other countries to keep your medical costs down?