Battle of Adrianople was picked by our Patrons on Patreon. Hope you like it. Also, if you like to play strategy games on your mobile, visit spons.org/BazBattles support our channel and check out Art of Conquest.
BazBattles btw, IMHO you found an untapped goldmine with your narrator, he's one of the best video narrator in RUclips for me, you should've expanded this collaboration. Expand the scope of this channel or cover other topics and create a new channel or something. A great narrator voice with good scripts are major attraction for a RUclips channel IMO.
conan263 watch Shaun’s video about the fall of the Roman Empire. Mass immigration wasn’t what killed Rome. In fact immigration helped Rome in many cases. Had the visigoths and Alan’s not migrated into Gaul than the western Roman Empire would not have been able to stop Atilla. And mass immigration is what created the states of modern England (saxons and angles) France (franks) Italy (Lombards) and the United States (various) if you live in any of these states you probably only exist thanks to mass immigration.
Remember that if people flee their countries it's not because they woke up a morning with this idea, it's because they have serious problems like wars,famines... all caused by the therrible policy of western nations; then when you let migrants pass your borders but then you let them starve it's to be expected that they are going to revolt
It's funny, in History Class this battle was taught to us as the moment that Heavy Cavalry proved itself as the new dominant force on all future battle fields, supposedly proving that Rome's Heavy Infantry approach had become obsolete. But now learning about the events of the battle, I don't really see it. This outcome was clearly the result of the Romans being surprise by the arrival of the enemy cavalry, having their own engaged cavalry on the flank crushed and being surrounded as a result. This is pretty standard stuff and could happen to any army against any enemy fielding decent medium or heavy cavalry. Certainly Carthage, Persia or even Gaullic Tribes could have pulled off something similar in earlier centuries. In fact it looks a lot like Cannae, at least in terms of the final outcome. If anything, it looks to me as if Roman infantry actually performed exceptionally well during this battle and proved their continued superiority when you consider how long they managed to keep fighting in good order after being surrounded. A lot of Armies would have probably collapsed immediately in that kind of situation.
I agree totally the infantry would always be the backbone of Roman armies even into the early Middle Ages with basil the seconds campaigning in mountainous Bulgaria.
Only Historians would fill the Turkish mountains with cavalry haha. Even Panzers regularly fell out of formation due to speed variability. If Europe wasn’t in a warming period, the Hun’s horses wouldn’t have gotten past Ukraine. Horses without food are about as useful as Tanks without fuel.
Steven Mackintosh, it was the Visigoths and the Romans who defeated the Huns at Chalons in 451. The Roman general didn’t want to have to ask the barbarian kings for help. These Visigoths Defeated the Romans in 378 and after Theodosius I they sacked Rome in 410 and were given land in Aquitaine
This era of history is called the "migratory period" of European history. These migrations were largely driven by a famine and colder weather pushing refugees South looking for food. Problem was there wasn't enough food to feed everyone anywhere on the continent. The Goths were given a choice. Either sit around and slowly stave or fight to the death. They choose to fight. After this battle the famines actually got worse and the Visigoths ended up migrating all the way to Spain and North Africa of course after sacking Rome along the way.
Adrianopel was not the end of the roman empire, but the beginning of the end. The failure in integrating or destroying the Goths, leaded to the Goth invasion of italy, which leaded to the opening borders in gaul, which leaded to invasions of several germanic tribes in gaul, which leaded to the foundation of the germanice kingdoms in the western empire, which leaded to less taxes, which leaded to no reliable army, which leaded to the end.
And the reason I think these tribes were there in the first place is because I think the more powerful huns chased them into roman territory or just wanted some land... I think
IMHO, Adrianople was the turning point of no return. The Empire was already in a downward slide for a century or two leading up to this point (Hyper inflation, loss of trade, civil wars, over taxation of the peasant farmers, loss of discipline of the army), but Adrianople was the point when the Army proved to be finally incapable of dealing with the border threats. And, as you summarized, this lead to the final slide into total collapse.
I must say, I really enjoy that you add additional facts at the end of your videos. They really provide a great context and postscript for the battles.
Valens was an unfortunate emperor. He was looking for greatness in the East and the Goths crashed the party, well not crashed by demolished. It surely is a mystery not able to find his dead body, especially a Roman emperor. Won't he be wearing some sort battle gear that would stand out from the rest? I mean even if its assumed that his body was accidentally burned. Great video by the way. Love your channel!
Looks like he made the wrong choice in not waiting for his nephews army to show up. This should be an episode of the Terrible Blunders in military history.
@@terawatt1 It most surely is, I still consider it the best Total War game I have ever played. I said old times, because I used to play it when I was a youngster - and I have great memories with this game from that time
@@signoguns8501 In my opinion that could very well be worth it - Total War games are great and diverse coupled with mods for them - and the fact that there is so many of them anyone will find some which are to their liking
So it's the story behind the famous battle of Adrianople, it's has been a while that i wanted to read about it, but i was either too lazy or too busy; thanks for the informative video :), really enjoyed it!
Another battle where unexpected reinforcements decide the outcome. All in all, I was trying to think as a general/commander of army: Fritigern: Ok, after the initial success with that weakling comes in Thracia now we face a few legions. Boy, this is not good, I must delay them and call for my friends and then, maybe, we will make history. This is our only shot, we can`t go back, those Huns will crush us, this is our only chance. Valens: My nephew isn`t arriving. I must crush this enemy. After all, they are a bunch of barbarians and reports say they are only 10k. Fritigern: We are attacked. Now it is the moment, now or never. We win or we die together with our families. Oh, the right flank is going down. We are going down. Valens: These undisciplined soldiers attacked without my command, but w8, in the left is going well. I think I will win. I will be like Caesar. Yes, yes, yes. Fritigern: My friends arrived. Unexpected. The gods helped us. I am rubbing my eyes and still can`t believe we are surrounding these LEGIONS! Valens: Enemy reinforcements. Why did I rushed? Couldn`t I`ve waited comfortably for my nephew? I can`t bare the shame. How can I stand tall when I will look upon my ancestors? I will be curageous until the end.
Much better context and visualisation than ive seen in much longer documentaries (bc of all the fluffing they do). Really appreciate the effort to accurately portray Valens' record, character and abilities! Very important. All other documentaries ive seen about the battle just throw him under the bus based on result of the battle and his subsequent reputation. Great job is what im sayin!
Actually he probably would have. Caesar was a highly aggressive general and was never one to take the defensive. Remember that at Alesia he came to the very brink of total destruction because of his inability to defeat Vercingetorix before his allies arrived.
If the Romans hadn't lost this battle, then the Alans wouldn't have been in the western roman empire to save them from the Huns. In the long game, Rome actually got a lot more then is lost from this battle.
Damn Goths? Please, the romans lost it by themselves. Especially the cavaly. Not only did they charge in like idiots without orders, they could not even give a deceisive blow. Then they got outflanked. Instead of forming up, analysing the situation and waiting for the enemy to make a mistake, like romans usually do
It was let them come in peacefully, or have them come in violently. When people are pushed to desperation, the fact your border starts at a river doesn't mean anything to them.
Nice, I really liked your Alexander videos I think that the ancient history is the most exotic, thus interesting. I hope to see more videos from those times! Thanks for vid
What are you using to create your battlefield maps? HirstoryMarche looks VERY similar. Is it a piece of software or a Photoshop brush set? Because it looks great.
That was kind of the idea. Valens allowed them through because he wanted to use the Goths as volunteers in his armies and as paesants working his lands, it was common practice.
*Am I wrong for thinking this all could've been solved by diplomacy and Fritigern a useful ally against the Persians? Rome could've done a Feudal system where Fritigern pledges loyalty to Valens in exchange for land and call upon his warriors free of charge.*
That was the general idea when Valens gave then permission to cross, though the direct distribution of land to barbarian chiefs in exchange for military service was not yet common practice. What would have happened, and happened for centuries before this incident, is that the families would be given to land owners to settle as colones, while volunteers would have been sent to individual army units across the Empire. The both the East and West in the Roman Empire were permanently hungry for both farmers and soldiers. At times emperors would have led expeditions across the borders to capture slaves and recruits for the army. The poin of Adrianopolis is that the corruption of the Roman military machine, coupled with the unexpected number of this particular "band", halted this system. But all the people here saying "That's why the Empire fell" think themselves so smart because they drew the dullest possible parallel between what happenened then and today's migrations forget that the East recovered and came to an equilibrium with Gothic tribes, while the West, who didn't suffer this defeat, fell, and not because of the goths
Dacia province was North of Danube not South-West as shown in that map. And Dacians were the same as Thracians , just on the northern side of Danube. Also Dacia provice contained the goths, visigoths, ostrogoths and other ethnics wich acted as a whole province.
Except one was an organized migrant issue that was trying multiple times to settle peacefully into a nation and try to use the protection of the empire and their own forces to defend themselves from the encroaching Huns who forced them out of their original homes, while at the same time being mistreated by Roman forces unduly and aggressively because they do not care about the lives of the Goths, and the other is a bunch of random immigrants who have no need to come into Europe because they wish to take advantage of economic systems because they destroyed their home country with internal dissent, yes explain to me how the Goths are the same as the Muslims.
Slightly untrue. I believe the Romans intentionally underfed them. At least I remember a different video describing it as such. Romans often dug their own graves with sheer arrogants.
And like I said, this is not a simple migrant issue, this is a literal nation on the march trying to settle new lands to try to survive. And yes I did watch the video, and I would like you to explain how the Romans could have resolved that scenario. They did not have the troops to stop them, but they still poked, prodded and generally malpractice the Goths who were a different tribe that simply wanted to settle in Bulgaria. Also, stop conflating modern immigration to the Romans, there were numerous issues that led to the migrant crisis of the end of the Roman empire, but numerous instances of Roman mistreatment of native tribes which led to mass unrest.
I wouldn't say like the biggest naval battle in history is that anticlimactic, and bigger ships did sink. Like the German Pre Dreadnought SMS Pommern. Anyway Baz did a vid on the Bismarck which is way less eventfull then this so
Well yeah, I know. But if they can do the Bismarck, then obviously they can do this, I mean how many ships got sunk in the Bismarck vid? Like 2 or 3. So the argument that its "anti climactic" isn't an excuse not to do it
I love history. Such amazement that we know what happened so far back. Yet common sense tells us that likely - it didn't go down anything like that. Just ask someone alive today what happened during WW2. You'll get very different accounts depending on who you ask. It makes me wonder how accurate these stories are, & by extension who WE think WE are.
btw if you have no idea what the hell we are on about the wololooo is a priest sound off age of empires and the red sheep blue sheep thing is a easter egg in minecraft related to the AOE priests
The romans missed a big opportunity , they should have made the gothic leaders to swear an oath to fight for the defence roman empire for entery to the empire. then gifted them the southern land bordering the danube . it would have give the empire a small bufferzone between them and the huns plus gain more fighting men to call upon when the huns where planing a invasion as the goths would fight for there soil and people. but everything is easier in hindsight.
The idea was to break them up and use them as soldiers in the wars in persia, like it was done with thousands of other gothic warriors. It worked like that for centuries, but this time the task proved too complex for a number of reasons, mostly corruption of the officers who were supposed to keep the refugees fed and sheltered. The idea to settle whole tribe within the borders to act as buffers was a later one (see Visigoths in Southern France) but it proved fatal in the long run because it fragmented power too much, and when you give people the choice between a barbarian king who will protect them and a distant Emperor who won't they tend to choose the former.
Oh boy I love your channel ! And you have a good voice for it as well. Well articulated, loud, understandable and mellowing ^^ :D One suggestion - at the end, as you put the "lists" with bonus information, its brilliantly made, BUT - make each of them stay longer, you have to be a really fast reader to catch them and understand them thru, which I guess some might find diffucult :)
What do you expect starving n panic-stricken refugees under a charismatic leader, positioned secure atop a hill, with their women n children counting on them. They will give all they can to defend, and that they did. Barbarian or not, men will go to any limit for their women n children. This battle was doomed for the Romans at its very inception.
You have to wonder what was Gothic leader thinking. If he loses *one* battle, it's not just a military setback - his tribe ceases to exist in an instant. On the other hand, what other choices did he have? Dividing his forces? Uh, they're already weaker than Valens. Leaving non-combatants behind and on their own in a hostile territory, with a number of Roman cities around? Not good either. Still, this situation should've given some advantages to Valens as well. - Since Goths did not seem to have their own cavalry around, Romans had months to harass them - and even if Alans were present earlier, Roman cavalry neutralizes them to some extent. - With Gothic forces being tied down to protect the main camp Valens could've focused on killing off foraging parties and other roaming bands, ensuring local superiority in every case. Even if main Gothic force breaks camp and moves in to rescue one of endangered detachments, Romans can always gtfo, destroying other groups in the meantime. - Finally, can you imagine what happens, when Roman cavalry actually listens to orders and does some proper flanking, ending up inside camp? Even if they start looting and make o other contribution to the battle, you have half the Gothic warriors scrambling to rescue their families. Bye bye frontline. At this point I wonder if Valens even knew Gothic women and children were around. It's a massive morale boost for a defender, but also a massive disadvantage if properly exploited. Doesn't seem Valens tried, as his army deployed as if for an ordinary battle, instead.
This type of thinking is what caused Stalin to refuse to let civilians evacuate Stalingrad. Stalin said his men would fight harder if they knew they had to protect the woman and children. So woman and children were stuck in the most horrific battles of all time. Thousands of non combatants died as a result.
It's this special kind of win, where circa 200k civilians got deported to do slave labor for Germans instead of evacuating beforehand and ending up in a T-34 factory somewhere behind Ural.
Yep I would have sent the cavalry around the back of the hill in secret. Pillage the camp followers then rush the main line from behind, and have them rejoin the main army again. Problem solved. Then ignore that army and focus on shoring up the river border. Then retreat to walled cities to wait them out.
It's not like the Goths are just standing there letting the Romans control their population. They're literally standing a few meters right in front of their families. A cavalry strike there is suicide for the men and it'd give the Goths even more reason to fight to the death since they've little left to live for. Even if the main roman army engages, the Gothic force is still big enough to delay and deal a lot of damage. Putting them in an even worse position when the Alan horsemen arrive.
Cael Kernil Only that we literally have contemporary roman chronists telling us that the Goths were daco-thracians. The only ones promoting the germanic origin of the goths are the germans themselves and prussian pseudo-historians. There is absolutely no evidence of germanic culture found anywhere near the Balkans or Crimea. "Were ravaging the countryside" (one of the most fertile regions in the Balkans and Europe as a whole) also "were starving", yeah pick one. The whole thing looks much more like a rebellion that the romans would try to twist in order to preserve whatever morale they had left. Funnily enough, seems to have a similar course with how the Bulgarians would uprise against the Byzantine Empire about 1000 years later.
I'd love to see the korean war with japan, and Admiral Yi's exploits in this format - though I do know it has already been covered by Extra Credits in the History series.
It's easy for you to say, with modern day communication and laws. But literally it takes just one impatient cavalryman to charge and set everything off. Good luck telling them to stop with flags and trumpets.
+nahte armystrong roman units of the late empire were anything but disciplined. most of the western troops consisted of barbarian mercenaries led by barbarian chieftains and of poor-quality auxiliaries. if these units had to fight the legions from the 1st centuries BC and AD, they would get utterly crushed every time because the legions had a much higher morale, discipline, leadership and training.
exactly he called them well discipline,well armored legionaries,even though the empire at this state in time didn't have the glorious powerful army from other eras in romes history
The sad thing is that this battle could easily have been avoided if the Romans had simply allowed Fritigern to settle normally rather than try to be as directly hostile as they were. To all the people that are trying to say this is the reason immigration does not work, first off, you have no understanding of what you are actually saying. It was a common practice of numerous empires across the centuries to allow displaced peoples to settle in border regions to bolster local defenses, and the Goths were nothing special. Also, the immigration we have today is not the same as immigration in this context. This is an entire culture and civilization on the march trying to survive, not some immigrants from one country or another. Rome had a tactical reason to allow the Goths to settle in the hinterlands, but local officials and poor leadership decisions turned an erstwhile ally into a major threat. Stop trying to politicize a historical event to try, and fail to fit your narrative. Also, Rome lost while trying to control the border, so please explain to me how harsh measures like the ones you want to implement work, for they failed here.
Exactly. The goths, and many other tribes/peoples entering the Roman Empire struggled with surviving inside the empire's lands. We see this especially in Gallia, where an unreasonable amoung of immigrants had to settle down in simply infertile land, or at least in lands incapable of sustaning the people living on it. This spread dissatisfaction within the tribes. At the same time, Rome was struggling with its politics and administration - in many cases, the local administration failed to understand the situation of the settling people . I mean, these weren't armies that marched into the lands ,especailly after they had to hand over their weapons to the Romans, but whole tribes. Sustaining such a large population was more or less unfeasable for the relatively small lands they had to live in. This, plus the fact that the Romans went through a period of internal struggles prior to the migration period, fueld hostility on both sides. Many empires throughout the ages took in fast quantities of different people and cultures- sometimes they could handle it, sometimes they couldn't. The fact that the people fleeing into Roman territory were running from an approaching enemy didn't make things better. Drawing a connection to today, or other empires that let immigrant enter, is a rather bold decision, as the circumstances are vastly, and I don't thing one cannot stress the word vastly here enough, different. Even bolder when some seem take theirentire history education from RUclips videos. Going back to this very specific example at Adrianopel, Lupicinus and especially Valens who was hundreds of miles away (and communication took time in the 4th century) were incapable of assess the situation. Moreover, Lupicinus completely failed to defuse the situation - I assume (I actually never managed to find sources that tried to explain Lupicinus' actions in detail) he thought Fritigern to be the inciter of the Goths, the one who made them feel hostile towards the Romans while the Romans themselves were partly, if not completely, responsible for this.
Rubbish, Goths had been raiding Roman lands all the the time a century beforehand because they figured out the Romans could only pursue them so far, but 99 times out of 100 the Romans caught up with them and kicked the shit out of them. In fact Gallienus and Claudius wiped out an entire generation in one campaign, do you think the Goths would simply have let that slide?. Add to this the Arian schism, constant silver devaluation, and recovering from two plagues how the hell do you think the Romans would react? With open arms? If you ask me it's just dye in the wool naivety to think these Goths were ever going to settle peacefully or integrate even if the Romans wanted them to, not at that rate in that time and certainly not when they would find it more profitable to just rob the gaffe (which they did).
Battle of Adrianople was picked by our Patrons on Patreon. Hope you like it.
Also, if you like to play strategy games on your mobile, visit spons.org/BazBattles support our channel and check out Art of Conquest.
Thank you yet again for this battle
Awesome as always.
BazBattles Excellent battle baz 👍
BazBattles btw, IMHO you found an untapped goldmine with your narrator, he's one of the best video narrator in RUclips for me, you should've expanded this collaboration. Expand the scope of this channel or cover other topics and create a new channel or something.
A great narrator voice with good scripts are major attraction for a RUclips channel IMO.
Another quality video, out of curiosity may I ask on what programme do you produce your videos?
It has always fascinated me that we know so much about this battle, while the details for dozens of others that happened in this period are lost.
more scibes than soldiers in this 1 i guess
conan263 watch Shaun’s video about the fall of the Roman Empire. Mass immigration wasn’t what killed Rome. In fact immigration helped Rome in many cases. Had the visigoths and Alan’s not migrated into Gaul than the western Roman Empire would not have been able to stop Atilla. And mass immigration is what created the states of modern England (saxons and angles) France (franks) Italy (Lombards) and the United States (various) if you live in any of these states you probably only exist thanks to mass immigration.
We have to thanks Ammianus Marcellinus for this account
Remember that if people flee their countries it's not because they woke up a morning with this idea, it's because they have serious problems like wars,famines... all caused by the therrible policy of western nations; then when you let migrants pass your borders but then you let them starve it's to be expected that they are going to revolt
I don't think this is even possible in modern western countries... And dude not cool!
"And that miracle..."
Me: OMG REALLY?!? :D
"Never came"
Me: ohokay :(
Valens : ok guys well just starve them out nice and slow...
Right wing : LEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOYYYYYYY
They had a chicken :)
I understood that reference.
JEEEENNNNNKIIIIINNSSSSSSSS
Valentinian: god damn it Valens… gaaahhhd damn it
Fight the Goths, they said.
It would be fun, they said.
Never fight the Goths, (something something "land war in Asia" or .. black clothing and poetry,) join with the Goths to fight the Hun!
They came from what is now Sweden.
THis is what happens when your empire becomes weak. You let the horde come in.
It's funny, in History Class this battle was taught to us as the moment that Heavy Cavalry proved itself as the new dominant force on all future battle fields, supposedly proving that Rome's Heavy Infantry approach had become obsolete.
But now learning about the events of the battle, I don't really see it. This outcome was clearly the result of the Romans being surprise by the arrival of the enemy cavalry, having their own engaged cavalry on the flank crushed and being surrounded as a result.
This is pretty standard stuff and could happen to any army against any enemy fielding decent medium or heavy cavalry. Certainly Carthage, Persia or even Gaullic Tribes could have pulled off something similar in earlier centuries. In fact it looks a lot like Cannae, at least in terms of the final outcome.
If anything, it looks to me as if Roman infantry actually performed exceptionally well during this battle and proved their continued superiority when you consider how long they managed to keep fighting in good order after being surrounded. A lot of Armies would have probably collapsed immediately in that kind of situation.
I agree totally the infantry would always be the backbone of Roman armies even into the early Middle Ages with basil the seconds campaigning in mountainous Bulgaria.
Only Historians would fill the Turkish mountains with cavalry haha. Even Panzers regularly fell out of formation due to speed variability. If Europe wasn’t in a warming period, the Hun’s horses wouldn’t have gotten past Ukraine. Horses without food are about as useful as Tanks without fuel.
The Gothic revolt sounds terrifying. Imagine being face to face with all that black lipstick!
Omg!
Funnily enough the Goths were probably mostly blond
🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂😂
@@starfox300 they were blonde and redhead
@@berig_gutisk he knows, he just makes jokes mentionning modern "goths" lmao
Such an epic and pivotal moment in history. After this it was game over for the Western Romans imho.
Except Western Roman Empire did not even participate in the battle.
Filip Batora The repercussions though.
The western empire would have fallen regardless
History Time after you finish with the middle ages you should talk again about the obscure parts of Antiquity
I'd say this was a ripple, Frigidus river was most likely what really put the final nail in the coffin.
If only Rome hadn't botched their diplomacy with the goths, they might have them stood a chance against the Huns with their help.
The Romans + Goths beat the Huns at Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.
Finally someone that gets it.
Steven Mackintosh, it was the Visigoths and the Romans who defeated the Huns at Chalons in 451. The Roman general didn’t want to have to ask the barbarian kings for help. These Visigoths Defeated the Romans in 378 and after Theodosius I they sacked Rome in 410 and were given land in Aquitaine
To be fair, it sounds like they just didn’t have the resources to deal with so many refugees.
This era of history is called the "migratory period" of European history. These migrations were largely driven by a famine and colder weather pushing refugees South looking for food. Problem was there wasn't enough food to feed everyone anywhere on the continent. The Goths were given a choice. Either sit around and slowly stave or fight to the death. They choose to fight. After this battle the famines actually got worse and the Visigoths ended up migrating all the way to Spain and North Africa of course after sacking Rome along the way.
Adrianopel was not the end of the roman empire, but the beginning of the end. The failure in integrating or destroying the Goths, leaded to the Goth invasion of italy, which leaded to the opening borders in gaul, which leaded to invasions of several germanic tribes in gaul, which leaded to the foundation of the germanice kingdoms in the western empire, which leaded to less taxes, which leaded to no reliable army, which leaded to the end.
And the reason I think these tribes were there in the first place is because I think the more powerful huns chased them into roman territory or just wanted some land... I think
IMHO, Adrianople was the turning point of no return. The Empire was already in a downward slide for a century or two leading up to this point (Hyper inflation, loss of trade, civil wars, over taxation of the peasant farmers, loss of discipline of the army), but Adrianople was the point when the Army proved to be finally incapable of dealing with the border threats. And, as you summarized, this lead to the final slide into total collapse.
@@TEverettReynolds The Eastern Empire continued for a thousand years after Adrianople.
It's lead, not leaded, you illiterate barbarian.
@@CritKhan its leadeded, actually.
I must say, I really enjoy that you add additional facts at the end of your videos. They really provide a great context and postscript for the battles.
"The emperor's body was never found"...so he could be still alive....out there....waiting....FOR REVENGE!!
nah he burned.
nah he was a bitch and is likely still running
@@fitnesspoint2006 he likely committed seppuku. Most generals did after a humiliating loss like this one, rather than live with the shame.
@@signoguns8501 i don't think the romans called it seppuku but I see your point
@@apassionatenerd.3564 They probably definitely called it seppuku, tbf
1:26 YO that sound track in the background is fire! took me straight back to 2005 when i started playn rome total war :D 10/10
Valens was an unfortunate emperor. He was looking for greatness in the East and the Goths crashed the party, well not crashed by demolished. It surely is a mystery not able to find his dead body, especially a Roman emperor. Won't he be wearing some sort battle gear that would stand out from the rest? I mean even if its assumed that his body was accidentally burned. Great video by the way. Love your channel!
slapnut1207 That makes sense. Good point.
Looks like he made the wrong choice in not waiting for his nephews army to show up. This should be an episode of the Terrible Blunders in military history.
@@Wallyworld30 I don't think VAlens was ever going to win.
Whenever BazBattles posts, I have to like the video before watching it, the stuff’s just too good
Man your voice makes even adds feel good
That Rome Total War soundtrack at the beginning did remind of good old times and makes for a really great introduction aswell!
why old times? To me it's still one of the best games ever made
@@terawatt1 It most surely is, I still consider it the best Total War game I have ever played. I said old times, because I used to play it when I was a youngster - and I have great memories with this game from that time
I wish i could play the total war series :( Im tempted to buy a pc just for those games lol
@@signoguns8501 In my opinion that could very well be worth it - Total War games are great and diverse coupled with mods for them - and the fact that there is so many of them anyone will find some which are to their liking
So it's the story behind the famous battle of Adrianople, it's has been a while that i wanted to read about it, but i was either too lazy or too busy; thanks for the informative video :), really enjoyed it!
"Art of Conquest: War Without Limits"
...except all the freemium resources, energy, level caps, etc.
You know, no limits.
Another battle where unexpected reinforcements decide the outcome.
All in all, I was trying to think as a general/commander of army:
Fritigern: Ok, after the initial success with that weakling comes in Thracia now we face a few legions. Boy, this is not good, I must delay them and call for my friends and then, maybe, we will make history. This is our only shot, we can`t go back, those Huns will crush us, this is our only chance.
Valens: My nephew isn`t arriving. I must crush this enemy. After all, they are a bunch of barbarians and reports say they are only 10k.
Fritigern: We are attacked. Now it is the moment, now or never. We win or we die together with our families. Oh, the right flank is going down. We are going down.
Valens: These undisciplined soldiers attacked without my command, but w8, in the left is going well. I think I will win. I will be like Caesar. Yes, yes, yes.
Fritigern: My friends arrived. Unexpected. The gods helped us. I am rubbing my eyes and still can`t believe we are surrounding these LEGIONS!
Valens: Enemy reinforcements. Why did I rushed? Couldn`t I`ve waited comfortably for my nephew? I can`t bare the shame. How can I stand tall when I will look upon my ancestors? I will be curageous until the end.
i cannot tell how much i love this Channel.... At last something usefull is on YT, really thanks and good work :-*
Great Video guys, and the narrator is Top Notch. This period of History is so overlooked and hope you guys keep these coming!
This is so sad. Alexa, play despacito.
LMAOOOOO
@@manguy1259 holy shit wuuut.
this channel has the most smooth transitions i've ever seen on youtube between the actual video and sponsored content
Much better context and visualisation than ive seen in much longer documentaries (bc of all the fluffing they do). Really appreciate the effort to accurately portray Valens' record, character and abilities! Very important. All other documentaries ive seen about the battle just throw him under the bus based on result of the battle and his subsequent reputation.
Great job is what im sayin!
JUST HOW IS THIS AMAZING ANIMATION MADE?
Makes me want to create fictional wars.
My boy Julius Caesar would have never done this
Actually he probably would have. Caesar was a highly aggressive general and was never one to take the defensive. Remember that at Alesia he came to the very brink of total destruction because of his inability to defeat Vercingetorix before his allies arrived.
would have probably cut off supply lines and reinforcements before trying to engage them. i noticed it was the first thing he did in every battle.
At the battle of Thapsus Caesar's troops attacked without orders and started the battle
He would have built a wall around the Goths
@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97 First he built a wall....
Instant like before video even starts. Love your content!
One of the most sad moment of the entire Roman History...Damn Goths!
If the Romans hadn't lost this battle, then the Alans wouldn't have been in the western roman empire to save them from the Huns. In the long game, Rome actually got a lot more then is lost from this battle.
Yes, and then they went to the western part...Did you ever hear about the sack of Rome? Who is the stupid now?
Everything would've been fine if they hadn't mistreated the Goths, it was their own damn fault.
They couldve probably avoided this situation if they didnt try to quick fix the problem... twice.
Damn Goths? Please, the romans lost it by themselves. Especially the cavaly. Not only did they charge in like idiots without orders, they could not even give a deceisive blow. Then they got outflanked. Instead of forming up, analysing the situation and waiting for the enemy to make a mistake, like romans usually do
I would build a great great wall in the northern border and i’ll have the Goths pay for that wall!
They kind of did do that...
Nah, I'm just gonna let them in without any kind of check and let them destroy my country.
It was let them come in peacefully, or have them come in violently. When people are pushed to desperation, the fact your border starts at a river doesn't mean anything to them.
Varangian Guard
you invaded the americas. what about that?
Too soon...😁
This man's voice is so goddamn relaxing!
Nice, I really liked your Alexander videos I think that the ancient history is the most exotic, thus interesting.
I hope to see more videos from those times!
Thanks for vid
Valentinian i the last great western roman emperor, his death and the battle of adrinople caused damages that even theodosius i couldn't heal
What are you using to create your battlefield maps? HirstoryMarche looks VERY similar. Is it a piece of software or a Photoshop brush set? Because it looks great.
How glad I am to have found this channel
It's always a huge pleasure when there is a new baz battle !
-we want settlement
*settles them in sassanid border*
win and WIN
Haha nice
good luck convincing them to move across hundreds of kilometers with no food to a desert where theres even less food.
that wasnt a deser back then, also. Food could be provided if you really need those tribes as buffer
They'd still probably wouldn't WANT to live there.
That was kind of the idea.
Valens allowed them through because he wanted to use the Goths as volunteers in his armies and as paesants working his lands, it was common practice.
Good choice of music- gives me those pre-battle chills from RTW that I so miss.
"Valens was few kilometers away from Constantinople" - in map it is about 80 km. Everything is relative.
Keep up the awesome videos!
*Am I wrong for thinking this all could've been solved by diplomacy and Fritigern a useful ally against the Persians? Rome could've done a Feudal system where Fritigern pledges loyalty to Valens in exchange for land and call upon his warriors free of charge.*
That was the general idea when Valens gave then permission to cross, though the direct distribution of land to barbarian chiefs in exchange for military service was not yet common practice.
What would have happened, and happened for centuries before this incident, is that the families would be given to land owners to settle as colones, while volunteers would have been sent to individual army units across the Empire.
The both the East and West in the Roman Empire were permanently hungry for both farmers and soldiers.
At times emperors would have led expeditions across the borders to capture slaves and recruits for the army.
The poin of Adrianopolis is that the corruption of the Roman military machine, coupled with the unexpected number of this particular "band", halted this system.
But all the people here saying "That's why the Empire fell" think themselves so smart because they drew the dullest possible parallel between what happenened then and today's migrations forget that the East recovered and came to an equilibrium with Gothic tribes, while the West, who didn't suffer this defeat, fell, and not because of the goths
Diplomacy is no substitute for strength--it depends on military strength for success.
@@francescofontana9707 very wise
Oh BazBattles. This jump in production quality im seeing in the battle walk through. This is a new side of you and I like it! Keep up the good work!
As much as I love Roman history I hate hearing the late Empire getting defeated. ROMA INVICTA
edgy
ROMA AETERNA!
There is nothing crigier than an edgelord throwing latin phrases at the of their sentences to appear smarter.
Imperialx I have some bad news about your Roman Empire... hash-tag: breaking news (#teamLarsPorsena)
Reckless Roges What do you mean? Last time I checked Rome was unconquered.
Dude love the pace you ate putting these , I visible get excited everytime I see a new video . Still would love to a BTS on. these
THEN THE ALAN RIDERS ARRIVED!
You'd be surprised how true that actually is.
Don't we wish
I saw the notification... but its not worth to watch without my favorite foods. BazBattles is a day saver.
Dacia province was North of Danube not South-West as shown in that map. And Dacians were the same as Thracians , just on the northern side of Danube. Also Dacia provice contained the goths, visigoths, ostrogoths and other ethnics wich acted as a whole province.
I'm happy that the little introduction to the battle is back for this battle. It's a nice little framing for the rest of the video.
Ojalá pueda agrgar subtítulos en español para el resto de los vídeos, se agradecen este tipo de materiales audiovisuales. Thank you
Every day is a bleak one for deeply depressed... But seeing BazBattles upload brings joy to my heart :)
Are you gonna do the sacking of Rome in 410 AD by Frittergen's adopted son, Alaric?
As great as always, and 3 videos in a shorter time! Always look forward to seeing your videos
This is cool! Hail Byzantium!!!!!
Thanks mate can't wait for next video
"let us into your country!"
"ok"
"give us free shit"
"ok"
"that's not enough! RIOT!"
is this 378 or 2018?
Except one was an organized migrant issue that was trying multiple times to settle peacefully into a nation and try to use the protection of the empire and their own forces to defend themselves from the encroaching Huns who forced them out of their original homes, while at the same time being mistreated by Roman forces unduly and aggressively because they do not care about the lives of the Goths, and the other is a bunch of random immigrants who have no need to come into Europe because they wish to take advantage of economic systems because they destroyed their home country with internal dissent, yes explain to me how the Goths are the same as the Muslims.
It was over a thousand years ago, calm your tits
Slightly untrue. I believe the Romans intentionally underfed them. At least I remember a different video describing it as such. Romans often dug their own graves with sheer arrogants.
El Psy yeah let's underfed dozens of thousands that outnumber us and still have their weapons.... Romans are not stupid like that.
And like I said, this is not a simple migrant issue, this is a literal nation on the march trying to settle new lands to try to survive. And yes I did watch the video, and I would like you to explain how the Romans could have resolved that scenario. They did not have the troops to stop them, but they still poked, prodded and generally malpractice the Goths who were a different tribe that simply wanted to settle in Bulgaria. Also, stop conflating modern immigration to the Romans, there were numerous issues that led to the migrant crisis of the end of the Roman empire, but numerous instances of Roman mistreatment of native tribes which led to mass unrest.
Probably the best channel for historical battles 👍👍👍
Still waiting for that Battle of Jultand, I will never give up
Fag Master it was actually a pretty anticlimactic just a bunch of dreadboughts nailing each other causing minimal damage
I wouldn't say like the biggest naval battle in history is that anticlimactic, and bigger ships did sink. Like the German Pre Dreadnought SMS Pommern. Anyway Baz did a vid on the Bismarck which is way less eventfull then this so
Well yeah, I know. But if they can do the Bismarck, then obviously they can do this, I mean how many ships got sunk in the Bismarck vid? Like 2 or 3. So the argument that its "anti climactic" isn't an excuse not to do it
Gotta point ^^
There is a really good video on the battle of Jutland in the very same sort of style as this one.
Your voice and all of this is so good!
I love history. Such amazement that we know what happened so far back. Yet common sense tells us that likely - it didn't go down anything like that. Just ask someone alive today what happened during WW2. You'll get very different accounts depending on who you ask. It makes me wonder how accurate these stories are, & by extension who WE think WE are.
You have no idea how much I love you guys for using Rome: Total War music in this video! Love you guys!
make battle of Grunwald
Thanks Baz I really needed this today
Baz u alive?
I am fascinated by this battle. Thank you!
Man...history does repeat itself
@Ibrahim The US and Israel*
I love this channel always learning new things
“Let us in your country”
“Give us food”
“You guys are not giving us enough”
*Riot*
Seems familiar
"F*** my Daughter"
"You didn't F*** my daughter"
"You disrespected our family"
CASUS BELLI
I dont really get how its familiar?
@@toddharig8142 He's saying it sounds like Mexicans invading US and demanding lodging and 5-star cuisine.
@@Kathayne636 I know that's what he is saying. Im just calling fake news.
WOW 3 VIDEOS IN A SPAN IF 3 WEEKS. This channel makes me learn more about history than School.
*WE NEED TO BUILD A WALL!*
Yes! I can't wait to watch this tonight.
wololooo
red sheep blue sheep
food please!
btw if you have no idea what the hell we are on about the wololooo is a priest sound off age of empires and the red sheep blue sheep thing is a easter egg in minecraft related to the AOE priests
STOP EVERYTHING !! New BazBattles video
The romans missed a big opportunity , they should have made the gothic leaders to swear an oath to fight for the defence roman empire for entery to the empire. then gifted them the southern land bordering the danube . it would have give the empire a small bufferzone between them and the huns plus gain more fighting men to call upon when the huns where planing a invasion as the goths would fight for there soil and people. but everything is easier in hindsight.
Glyn Humphrey It wasn't exactly possible.
Given that the situation with the Goths lasted for years, i'm sure they had thought of what you said but did not want to go with it.
The idea was to break them up and use them as soldiers in the wars in persia, like it was done with thousands of other gothic warriors.
It worked like that for centuries, but this time the task proved too complex for a number of reasons, mostly corruption of the officers who were supposed to keep the refugees fed and sheltered.
The idea to settle whole tribe within the borders to act as buffers was a later one (see Visigoths in Southern France) but it proved fatal in the long run because it fragmented power too much, and when you give people the choice between a barbarian king who will protect them and a distant Emperor who won't they tend to choose the former.
Great...Just Great... - Gratian 378 AD
I misread the title as Battle of Adrianpole and thought that was a really funky name 😂
Another amazing story thank you BazBattles
So Gothic bands were revolting even back then.
Oh boy I love your channel ! And you have a good voice for it as well. Well articulated, loud, understandable and mellowing ^^ :D
One suggestion - at the end, as you put the "lists" with bonus information, its brilliantly made, BUT - make each of them stay longer, you have to be a really fast reader to catch them and understand them thru, which I guess some might find diffucult :)
#ostrorapistnotwelcomehere #buildhadrianswall #makeromagreatagain
Absolutely Great! Keep up the great work!
What do you expect starving n panic-stricken refugees under a charismatic leader, positioned secure atop a hill, with their women n children counting on them. They will give all they can to defend, and that they did. Barbarian or not, men will go to any limit for their women n children. This battle was doomed for the Romans at its very inception.
You have to wonder what was Gothic leader thinking. If he loses *one* battle, it's not just a military setback - his tribe ceases to exist in an instant.
On the other hand, what other choices did he have?
Dividing his forces? Uh, they're already weaker than Valens.
Leaving non-combatants behind and on their own in a hostile territory, with a number of Roman cities around? Not good either.
Still, this situation should've given some advantages to Valens as well.
- Since Goths did not seem to have their own cavalry around, Romans had months to harass them - and even if Alans were present earlier, Roman cavalry neutralizes them to some extent.
- With Gothic forces being tied down to protect the main camp Valens could've focused on killing off foraging parties and other roaming bands, ensuring local superiority in every case. Even if main Gothic force breaks camp and moves in to rescue one of endangered detachments, Romans can always gtfo, destroying other groups in the meantime.
- Finally, can you imagine what happens, when Roman cavalry actually listens to orders and does some proper flanking, ending up inside camp? Even if they start looting and make o other contribution to the battle, you have half the Gothic warriors scrambling to rescue their families. Bye bye frontline.
At this point I wonder if Valens even knew Gothic women and children were around. It's a massive morale boost for a defender, but also a massive disadvantage if properly exploited. Doesn't seem Valens tried, as his army deployed as if for an ordinary battle, instead.
This type of thinking is what caused Stalin to refuse to let civilians evacuate Stalingrad. Stalin said his men would fight harder if they knew they had to protect the woman and children. So woman and children were stuck in the most horrific battles of all time. Thousands of non combatants died as a result.
It's this special kind of win, where circa 200k civilians got deported to do slave labor for Germans instead of evacuating beforehand and ending up in a T-34 factory somewhere behind Ural.
Yep I would have sent the cavalry around the back of the hill in secret. Pillage the camp followers then rush the main line from behind, and have them rejoin the main army again. Problem solved. Then ignore that army and focus on shoring up the river border. Then retreat to walled cities to wait them out.
It's not like the Goths are just standing there letting the Romans control their population. They're literally standing a few meters right in front of their families. A cavalry strike there is suicide for the men and it'd give the Goths even more reason to fight to the death since they've little left to live for. Even if the main roman army engages, the Gothic force is still big enough to delay and deal a lot of damage. Putting them in an even worse position when the Alan horsemen arrive.
My day gets brighter every time I see either you, Historia Civilis, or Brain4Breakfast upload
Well When Brain4Breakfast was still alive.
Build the wall! And kick them out!
Proclivity to Destroy Leftists but all that was kind of galic and thratian land before Rome took it over. What do you mean?
The Danube was an wall of water. They just not had enough troops to hold them out
Conservatism is a mental disorder.
Varangian Guard I agree! We should believe more in our instinct, just like we did most of human history
"If you don't have a border, you don't have a country." Trump was right
I liked the slower narration. Absolutely great stuff as always though!
uncontrolled migration into europe? sounds familiar...
Absolutely love this channel!
"Refugees welcome"
Cael Kernil I don't know why I kept thinking of Merkel while watching this?😂😂 glad I am not the only one.
Cael Kernil Gothic, Alan, and Frankish Refugees saves Rome from being entirely destroyed. Battle of Catalaunian fields boi.
Cael Kernil isnt america built on refugees
Cael Kernil Only that we literally have contemporary roman chronists telling us that the Goths were daco-thracians. The only ones promoting the germanic origin of the goths are the germans themselves and prussian pseudo-historians. There is absolutely no evidence of germanic culture found anywhere near the Balkans or Crimea. "Were ravaging the countryside" (one of the most fertile regions in the Balkans and Europe as a whole) also "were starving", yeah pick one. The whole thing looks much more like a rebellion that the romans would try to twist in order to preserve whatever morale they had left. Funnily enough, seems to have a similar course with how the Bulgarians would uprise against the Byzantine Empire about 1000 years later.
EMH dude during massive wars going on in Europe people used to flee and come to America....like come on it's all there on google
This just makes me wanna play Rome total war, awesome video ! Keep them coming
Battle of Manzikiert or Battle of Vienna pls.
Love these videos! Keep up the great work!!!!!!
Reading Ammianus is like to know about the european refugee crisis...History repeats itself.
Except you won't find the whole Syrian populace starving, fully armed, in the middle of Turkey and revolting.
Of course not...Factors change, but the results are the same. Historia magistra vitae said once Cicero.
Of course I bring him into this. History has eternal laws, technology cannot anything in this discussion. History repeats, this is a fact.
Historia Aeterna Except it's not repeating itself since a lot of factors changed. Unless the moral of the story is : "People starving get angry".
No, it isnt even similar
Excellent! Well done! Greetings from Argentina.
#GothicRefugeesWelcome
I'd love to see the korean war with japan, and Admiral Yi's exploits in this format - though I do know it has already been covered by Extra Credits in the History series.
#Visigothswelcome #notallgoths
Such an interesting battle!
>troops charge forward without even being told to
13:27 "well disciplined"
It's easy for you to say, with modern day communication and laws. But literally it takes just one impatient cavalryman to charge and set everything off. Good luck telling them to stop with flags and trumpets.
+nahte armystrong
roman units of the late empire were anything but disciplined. most of the western troops consisted of barbarian mercenaries led by barbarian chieftains and of poor-quality auxiliaries. if these units had to fight the legions from the 1st centuries BC and AD, they would get utterly crushed every time because the legions had a much higher morale, discipline, leadership and training.
exactly he called them well discipline,well armored legionaries,even though the empire at this state in time didn't have the glorious powerful army from other eras in romes history
Excellent video, as always. Might you consider covering the Battle of Cannae? Or alternatively Battle of Zama?
The sad thing is that this battle could easily have been avoided if the Romans had simply allowed Fritigern to settle normally rather than try to be as directly hostile as they were. To all the people that are trying to say this is the reason immigration does not work, first off, you have no understanding of what you are actually saying. It was a common practice of numerous empires across the centuries to allow displaced peoples to settle in border regions to bolster local defenses, and the Goths were nothing special. Also, the immigration we have today is not the same as immigration in this context. This is an entire culture and civilization on the march trying to survive, not some immigrants from one country or another. Rome had a tactical reason to allow the Goths to settle in the hinterlands, but local officials and poor leadership decisions turned an erstwhile ally into a major threat. Stop trying to politicize a historical event to try, and fail to fit your narrative. Also, Rome lost while trying to control the border, so please explain to me how harsh measures like the ones you want to implement work, for they failed here.
Exactly. The goths, and many other tribes/peoples entering the Roman Empire struggled with surviving inside the empire's lands. We see this especially in Gallia, where an unreasonable amoung of immigrants had to settle down in simply infertile land, or at least in lands incapable of sustaning the people living on it. This spread dissatisfaction within the tribes. At the same time, Rome was struggling with its politics and administration - in many cases, the local administration failed to understand the situation of the settling people . I mean, these weren't armies that marched into the lands ,especailly after they had to hand over their weapons to the Romans, but whole tribes. Sustaining such a large population was more or less unfeasable for the relatively small lands they had to live in. This, plus the fact that the Romans went through a period of internal struggles prior to the migration period, fueld hostility on both sides.
Many empires throughout the ages took in fast quantities of different people and cultures- sometimes they could handle it, sometimes they couldn't. The fact that the people fleeing into Roman territory were running from an approaching enemy didn't make things better.
Drawing a connection to today, or other empires that let immigrant enter, is a rather bold decision, as the circumstances are vastly, and I don't thing one cannot stress the word vastly here enough, different. Even bolder when some seem take theirentire history education from RUclips videos.
Going back to this very specific example at Adrianopel, Lupicinus and especially Valens who was hundreds of miles away (and communication took time in the 4th century) were incapable of assess the situation. Moreover, Lupicinus completely failed to defuse the situation - I assume (I actually never managed to find sources that tried to explain Lupicinus' actions in detail) he thought Fritigern to be the inciter of the Goths, the one who made them feel hostile towards the Romans while the Romans themselves were partly, if not completely, responsible for this.
Bullshit. They didn't even have the ability to feed these people, let alone do it for free.
Fucking THANK you!
They were too late
Rubbish, Goths had been raiding Roman lands all the the time a century beforehand because they figured out the Romans could only pursue them so far, but 99 times out of 100 the Romans caught up with them and kicked the shit out of them. In fact Gallienus and Claudius wiped out an entire generation in one campaign, do you think the Goths would simply have let that slide?. Add to this the Arian schism, constant silver devaluation, and recovering from two plagues how the hell do you think the Romans would react? With open arms? If you ask me it's just dye in the wool naivety to think these Goths were ever going to settle peacefully or integrate even if the Romans wanted them to, not at that rate in that time and certainly not when they would find it more profitable to just rob the gaffe (which they did).
I serously love this channel