Heiser came to speak at my town once on his Unseen Realm book tour. I had no idea who he was at the time. I walked out of his seminar forever, which changed in my understanding of scripture.
I don’t believe in a lot of the Calvinist doctrine BUT this is a home run. I like the late Mike Hesier and he is missed. It’s refreshing to hear this kind of understanding of the divine counsel coming from Joel. Those who reject it miss out on half the Bible and the richness of Gods glory. It’s truly right there in the word. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.
@@daveonezero6258 because I’m watching a reformed channel, I agree with the content of this video but not everything on the channel. Finding this channel and agreeing with some content doesn’t mean I agree with the full tenets of Calvin. I’m open to listening. That’s what that means.
Actually a deeper mystery to me. While wearing Hulk hands It IS possible to spin the globe to his left, but not wield the sword above his head, nor play the guitars to his far right. My interpretation is that the Hulk hands are symbolic and not to be literally worn.
I have loved Greek Mythology. Started reading it in high school and I got to college and realized these people actually practiced that as a religion it blew my mind. Usually where there is smoke there will be fire.
Then take that and see that it is all over the world. And those places are in the last few hundred years being exposed to the One True God and his Son.
@@daveonezero6258 I love reading the history of various Nations and seeing them go from under the thrall of pagan demons to becoming worshippers of Christ. Big things happen!😎👍🏻
I read Heiser's The Unseen Realm and thoroughly enjoyed it. It made SENSE and it also made me ponder these things. His admonission to think like a 1st century Jew also made a lot of sense. It opened a whole new way of looking at my Bible. Heiser always said he didn't want to protect people from their Bible's. Unfortunately, many people refuse to even consider it. I think my advantage was that I was never locked into a 'system' having come to Christ in my mid 30's. By that time I'd seen much that many never do. It kept my mind open to possibilities as well as humbled enough to know that I don't know 'everything', nor does anyone else! It's a difficult step to take but it IS rewarding.
I started a Master’s degree in History and started to realize many, many things of supernatural incidence, there was some “truth” that just can’t be excused away.
Same her. While getting my history degree and teachers license I slowly went from a Pre-mill to a Post Post Amillennial, from knowing the bible and seeing the events of history that already happened.
When you read the aneid you'll get ideas like what they talk about here where regions like where try was and where future Rome will be have a god assigned by a "Lord of heaven" to those areas. This Lord seems to also be above the council of gods that are working for or against the Trojans and Italians and latins for control of the area. So these concepts are there in home and plato and Virgil and Sumeria and such. It's that thing that when From Early like Moses and Job and such to much later like Daniel and Virgil. To even later like Thomas Martyr and many Earl Church writers are all saying something similar.....we have to consider the spiritual world.
Tolkien was a brilliant storyteller. It is so fascinating to realize he incorporated Christianity into many of his fantasy narratives. The dangers of lust of the eyes, flesh, pride of life seen in many characters, the concept of redemption and grace amidst failure. . . . Very Christ-like. It is time the Church reclaim the Arts and their unique way of conveying Truth.
I’ve been studying Dr Heisers work over the last year. Very provocative, to say the least. This was a great compliment to that, thank you Pastor Joel and RR ministries.
You're over simplifying what he said. You need to actually listen to how he explains it, remember names werent and aren't JUST names, they had meaning and description and attributes to the name / word. I understand what he means, and its plausible without being heretical.
@@anthonygamboa3146 Michael is not Jesus, Just as Adam in not Jesus, nor is Joseph Jesus. Names are given to individuals, not to be twisted by man to give new meaning and confluences to nonsense.
Let us make man in our image, is the Triune God, void of any other counsel. In the image of ‘who?’ He made them. In the image of God, He made them. To say that He was saying to multiple creatures, let us make man in all of our image, does not fit, does not follow. As brother Voddie would say, “that dog won’t hunt”.
Thanks for the information!. The late Dr Michael Heiser really connected many many dots for me with his insight into the divine council. The idea is to let the Bible be the bible and read the text within the context. Critics of Mike obviously didn't hear what he said over and over again. Scholars know all the information I'm speaking of but they don't teach it. He definitely had the credentials to teach what he did. Carry on with the truth. ❤❤❤
Thank you brothers this is march tenth. Heavens Gate is the cult you couldn't remember. Please pray for me I have cerBraley Palsy and COPD from years of smoking.i quit 3 years ago,but the damage was done. I been in the hospital's ICU 3 times from acute lung failure. This is torture.i am alone.My family is gone. It's frightening when you Or fighting for your next breath of air, but I called on Jesus in my desperate and he saved from death 3 times in the last 30 days. I have no help besides Jesus. NY church hasn't even visited me. That really hurt my ♥. I love your program.I want you a lot, Because I can't get this kind teaching at the church. I attend when I am able due to too health. I just want my flesh and blood family to cand and my church take care also.. I spent my life doing for everybody else And now that my health is Failing me no one is there..... I truly know that Jesus is comi.Mean very soon very soon.Because time is past short.
God loves you and so do all of your brothers and sisters in Christ! I love you brother and I am praying for God to help you in anyway that you need!!❤❤❤❤
"You draw near in the day that I called on Thee. You said "fear not". O Lord, you have pleaded the case of my soul; you have redeemed my life". Prayers for you and for blessings and comfort from the Lord. And I pray that family and church will visit you.
I would have appreciated taking the time to have anyone on this discussion clearly differentiate between their working theories and speculations from their Biblically based analysis. This guest seemed to speak everything so matter-of-factly…no matter his topic
I'm familiar with Doug from watching the Iron and Myth gang roundtable discussions - Derek Gilbert, Doug Van Dorn, Brian Godawa, and Judd Burton. I would imagine if you like this kind of open-minded discussion, you'd like those too.
Yup. Too many Xtian have no supernatural worldview and are fearful of Heiser. Heiserphobes. I'd call this progress, if Joel's crew didn't insist upon a 'boys only club' in his church ....counter to scriptures 1 Tim 3:11. Female deacons.
@@DeaconBeanCooter 1 Tim literally specifies deacons are exclusively men. The women mentioned in verse 11 would be their wives. Read the context of church leaders in the preceding section. The sections of Decon follows the same flow.
Lolz you logic has requirements for dcns wives but not pastors wife and that silly pronoun you can't accommodate for in 1 Tim 3:11. Don't bother yourself with study. We're low on dumb xtians. Oh wait there you are
What is "Reformed"? Every time i look it up. Lots of words with very little in defining thought, are given on every website i have looked at. From what i can tell. There are a number of opinions the host has that i would disagree with. However, his willingness to have on guests that maybe just outside of his comfort zone, and desire to learn the bible with willingness to hear out challenging ideas. Is what has kept me coming back for a number of talks, and discussions.
“Reformed”, is Protestant churches based on the teachings of the Reformers, who broke away from the Roman Catholic Church, like Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. The only problem is, we’re supposed to be following the teachings of God’s Word, not the teachings of man. That’s why many Protestant churches are apostate today, because they preach the doctrine of men, rather doing as scripture commands, and preach the Word of YHVH directly from the ßißle. Not feel good sermons about how Jesus wants endless riches and blessings for you in this life, which has no basis in scripture. Jesus promises us that we will have really difficult times if we choose to serve Him, and preach the true gospel, and the truth of His Word. He says the world will despise us for our testimony of Him, and we’ll be hàted for His name’s sake. The disciples certainly never experienced all those riches and endless blessings the prosperity preachers proclaim, because it’s not biblical. A lot of these Protestant believers deny the events of Genesis 6, and the creation of the giants through faIlen angels and human women mating, even though it’s sound doctrine, and it’s discussed elsewhere in scripture.
@@Redeemed.of.YHVH.thru.Christ Thank you for taking the time to share this insight. Does the reformed community have a united stance on the creation account. As in 6 literal days of creation or other interpretation?
When they say "Reform" they actually mean Calvinism. It's a philosophy of belief of how God does things. Calvinism is another flavor of Christianity. And it is absolutely false. All Protestants or modern Christians "reformed" out of the Roman Catholic church. That's the general meaning. But thats not what they mean when these modern Pastors and Teachers say reform, they mean Calvinism. It's an ugly doctrine that they hide under a number of names to make it more palatable. Search T.U.L.I.P. and John Calvin then you will know.
@@simplearthling Thank you for the information. i'm aware of calvinism. It took me a bit to work through. i do not remember hearing the connection between reformed and calvinist before. In small doses i don't mind calvinists. When taken too far. It is horribly egotistical.
I have often thought that the story's of the Greek gods were fallen and the children of the fallen , this is awesome information and insight, much love and appreciation God bless you and your beautiful families Jesus Christ is king 👑💕 God bless
It is so great to hear a conversation on the time before the great flood. I think that hold the secrets to our past. And it is never taught. Thank you for publishing this.
I like that “the word myth means it’s just an origin story.” I worked with a woman in her 70’s, who was raised in Greece, and she said in grade school, she was taught that Greek “mythology” was their history.
@@MariaWalker-qo3vi for sure, I've studied as a hobby Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and some Mayan mythology always thinking it had to have some connection to Lucifer and the 1/3 that rebelled with him. When I went to a dead sea scroll exhibition, and then read the book of Enoch. The solid connection hit like a Mac truck and a bolt of lightning.
Great content! This is important since more and more people are having supernatural experiences coming into contact with “beings” who apparently have a lot to say. So understanding origin stories of common supernatural beings can be helpful. It’s most important for people in these situations to know Christ is king over all and the strongman has been bound, on a leash. There’s freedom in Christ and Christ alone, everything else is bondage.
My theory is that when a nation is converted to Christianity the fallen Angel that rules that nation is overthrown and one of the saints, who are ruling with Christ, becomes the ruler of that nation. I think this is where the idea of Patron Saints comes from. So, Christian nations like Norway and America no longer have fallen Angels ruling over them, but an unconverted nation like India is still ruled by a fallen Angel.
this is the same conclusion that I came to, the nephilim showed up again when the Father assigned other Elohim to look after their provinces and some of them once again sinned the unpardonable sin and created offspring.
Very interesting man. I find it refreshing listening to these different opinions and interpretations of the scriptures. It’s way better than listening to stuff like Ancient aliens or Billy Carson who quote the Bible out of context. Thank you and may God bless the work you are doing and lead you to the truth that you sincerely are seeking.
At about 18:55, Doug is talking about Adam and Eve hiding among trees of the garden. Well that brings to mind the blind man, who Jesus healed with pure saliva, and he sees too well. He sees „men like trees.“
Ive been enjoying and learning from both doug and joel over the past several months because of haunted cosmos. Having both in one show was pretty great! Thank you!
Jud 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" .... "Lord" in the New Testament is always Jesus, This speaks of TWO individuals. Unless he can prove in this case it's not speaking about Jesus as Lord in this passage. He would still have problems with the first part of the verse, "But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment," If Michael is simply another name for Jesus, and Jesus is YAHWEH, Than WHY did Michael / Jesus simply say with the authority of YAHWEH God, "I rebuke you"... Personally, I think it's heretical. Personally, all this Nephilim speculation is going to far. The bible gives very little information on this and going to other non inspired books does not help. How do you know they were not exaggerating, the stories simply got bigger when they were past down from generation to generation. Doug Van Dorn speculation is going too far. If I was a member of his church I would leave, I was a member of cult once and this to me is going way too far, when the bible has very little information on this we should not go. All this feeding is unhealth speculation about what God gives very little information on. It could lead others astray. JW's were right but also wrong... Could lead weak Christians into looking at what else do JW's have that could be right but also wrong, and lead them away from God right into the hands of a cult...
Heiser taught that God became a lowercase g god as part of the council. In that sense, his lowercase god nature would certainly have been a created sort of like Jesus's human nature was created. Not only that, Heiser believed that people would become gods as well. He also said that the old testament has to be interpreted though the lense of Babylonian religions. Heiser was a heretic.
@@UnderTheFloor79 Well, the Pharisees also called Jesus a heretic so there you go. Things you ppl don't understand u start throwing boogeyman words. We believers in Yeshua will rule will him when heaven comes to earth. The bible says we will rule over angels! That essentially makes us "gods" lowercase "g". I think you're just stuck on the word "god." It just means spirit beings in the Hebrew, i.e. elohim. They call GOD elohim, angels elohim, and deceased human spirits as elohim... aka a god, a spirit being, not THE GOD Almighty, or the Great Spirit, Who's proper name is JeHoVaH.
@@UnderTheFloor79 The Archangel Michael "could" be Jesus. Jesus wasn't Jesus until he was born in the flesh. So I guess Michael could be Jesus in Spirit and angel form cuz the name or title, Michael = Who is Like God is probably Yeshua Jesus, because no one is like God but the Son, Yeshua Jesus. And "angel" is a title and position, not the noun for a flying chub with wings. Like saying "Kernel" it's a military position, not the KFC guy. So the "angel" of the Lord means the "messenger" of the Lord, or in effect His emissary, and who can be the emissary of God but God Himself? Therefore Yeshua Jesus. If you do the studies on "the angel of the Lord" in the old testament, you will also find that likely that was also Yeshua Jesus. He is the ultimate commander-in-chief that led all the patriarchs into battle with the giants and clearing those lands for his people, the Israelites. These are some of the things of God that you don't know and think of Him (Jesus) as just the lamb. But you don't know that He was also the Lion of Judah, Yeshua Jesus the one True God and King of Kings, the Warrior of Heaven and Commander-in-Chief of Heaven and Earth and He played different "positions" at different times. There are so many facets of our wonderful God, may all Glory and Honor be unto Him, King Yeshua forever and ever Amen!
@@UnderTheFloor79 That is a complete misrepresentation of what he says. His opinion is, ancient pagan text of the nations that surrounded Israel had similar phrasing and concepts because of when they lived and where they lived. He’s very clear that these phrases were used by the writers of the Old Testament to fight back against the pagan war with Yahweh. The text gave the readers of the Old Testament context. I can walk into a Christian bookstore and find thousands of books that are not canon that use secular themes to demonstrate Christian truth in their books. It’s the same thing. For example a Christian author may quote a well-known atheist to make a point, they may put that quote in their book and then use analysis to debunk the quote. The atheist words are now in the Christian writers book. We see it all the time, that’s what Heiser is talking about. Also Heiser did not say that God demotes himself to sit on a council. Just a basic reading of the Bible tells you that “Jesus was made a little lower than the angels”. But he is still God! Did he demote himself in this case? Of course not.
The power’s & principalities are classes of angels! Your connecting dots for me- the Tartarus from Plato is the Tart-aria myth of the lost continent! That’s where the giants were, the land of the giants! And the shining serpent people explained things, also the DEEP reference! Wow, everything happens for a reason. There are no accidents
Very interesting conversation. I think SDA also believes that Jesus is Michael/the Angel of the Lord. But they believe he is God, the second of the Trinity. It is very interesting and there are passages in the scriptures that seem to point to this being so.
I wish Joseph Campbell were alive at the same time as doctor Heiser was so that so they could discuss the divine council and what it means Mythologically, that would be a great discussion.
I want to re-ask the question; Were the Sons of God who were assigned to rule over the nations the same ones who originally rebelled against God in the begining. . . . or, were they "good guys" who, once they became rulers over geographical territories, became corrupt? Were there multiple rebellions by these Sons of God?
Don't, forget The Prince of Preachers Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Augustus Toplady, and Most if Not All The Reformers and Great Men of The Faith. Where JWs are wrong is they believe Jesus is a created being. In Jude 1:9 The reason Michael just another name and title for Jesus, doesn't rebuke Satan is because he's still Pre-Incarnate and so God The Father did all the rebuking.
Kept seeing Judgement of the Nephilim and The Final Nephilim by Ryan Pitterson listed when I was in Amazon’s books…bought them both and now in the second book which deals more w/prophecy in the last days…fascinating and he has certainly done his research…very biblically based. Would love to see him on a Right Response podcast…
I do not agree that Jesus is Michael and it seems dangerous to teach that to people. An angel is a created being and Christ is God, The Creator. Jesus is not an angel and yet scripture states clearly in Jude 1:9 that Michael is. Furthermore, in that scripture it says Michael was contending with the devil and did not pronounce a blasphemous judgement on him and instead said The Lord rebuke you. If Michael were Christ he would have the power to rebuke the devil because Christ is God and equal with The Father.
You didn't listen. That's not what the guy said. He spoke of a title used, that was used to describe both. Just as Jesus has many titles, so Michael was called by different titles. Scripture also says that Jesus would be called the Everlasting Father. Does that make Jesus the Father? No, obviously not. Was that prophecy still fulfilled? Yes. Just as the Father is called different titles. So as Satan has had different titles throughout history. Try listening to understand, not to respond.
Nothing that you said contradicts what @kristinlowther6260 said. Scripture clearly states that Satan is a created being and also Michael did not have the authority to fully rebuke Satan. Christ is not a created being and Christ is “Lord” so Michael would not have deferred to the lord if he was indeed Christ, he would have had full authority to rebuke Satan then and there.
@@nightrider963 he never said that Michael was ever called Lord. Do you not understand English? Angel of the Lord, does not say that that Angel is either Lord or not the Lord. It says "of the", which means "originating from", not is that thing. Humans are the "dust of the earth", we are not the earth, but we do originate from dust. Micheal and any other Angel, are indeed Angels of the Lord, because they originate from Him. Duh. Use some logic instead of trying to be right. Try again. Don't be like a lefty and get triggered. Instead, actually listen or read to understand.
@@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar I am nit the least bit triggered, and I understand English perfectly. I am not the one who has to attempt to demean others to try to win his point. Before I go any further can you answer these questions; Are you saying that Doug VanDorn was only saying that Christ and Michal shared a similar title such as an Angel of the Lord ?? Do you agree or disagree that Michael and Christ is one and the same. ??? It seems that we are talking past one another because none of my points had anything to do with the “Angel of the Lord” however I have studied the subject deeply and will tespond with scriptural support that addresses your answers.
@@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar I find it interesting you use insults to make your point. It’s a reflection of your current character. That is something you would be wise to ponder and bring before the Lord in prayer. If you are a brother in Christ then you know we are not to be insulting when speaking with other brothers and sisters in the faith. If another believer is wrong then bring forth the truth with grace, if you can’t do that then choose silence. Also, making insults makes you lose credibility in the points you are trying to make. Others would be more likely to hear you out and consider your words if you weren’t insulting them.
I just don't understand how anyone who has read the bible for themselves without having it taught to them by a church previously, would ever come away thinking the 'trinity' was a thing?
I don't understand why some of us assume it's better to "read something on our own" than to have it taught to us? Have you ever wondered where that Bias toward individuality/self-sufficiency comes from?
Because Jesus called himself God and said he would send the Comforter to us. The Comforter indwells millions of people simultaneously...only an omnipresent being can do that. It's very obvious to me based solely on what is written.
31:20 bound to this earth, as mentioned in Isaiah. When you mentioned the Tower of Babel being like the building of a mountain, it goes back to any pyramid structure or obelisk, being a representation of Lucifer himself trying to climb his way out yet he is bound to this earth as he has fallen. That's how he can prowl around but he cannot leave. Not even in one of those fancy flying discs😂😂😂
Very interesting interview. A lot of "wow... Never thought about it that way" moments for sure. He definitely has a lot of knowledge (speaking about extra-biblical texts like the Lost Books of Adam and Eve, the Apocalypse of Abraham, First Enoch was very interesting) and has clearly done deep study. However, there were a few red flags that stuck out that I'm not sure what how to reconcile: 1) A-millenialism. I cannot believe any aware, thinking person can possibly hold the view that we are currently in some ambiguous "spiritual" millennial reign as we speak. Firstly, the Scriptures are pretty clear it's a physical, literal thousand year period where Yeshua will reign on earth with those who were killed during the Great Tribulation (I submit that is yet a future event, likely right around the corner), but secondly... Has he looked around? He himself near the beginning of this interview I believe, even said mankind has never been more wicked than it is now over the past few years. So... I'm sorry, but how you can hold that truthful observational viewpoint and also somehow claim Christ is currently reigning is absurd. 2) He's claiming God the Father, The Most High, and YHWH... Are NOT the same?! This is heretical, imho. 3) He's further claiming YHWH is Yeshua? What? Again, heretical. 4) He's claiming Michael (who he earlier described as being the one held up by the Prince of Persia) is Yeshua? And not an Archangel, which the Scriptures describe him as more than once? I'm sorry, but Jesus would not be held up by another Prince, yet a being of equal footing (I. E. An archangel vs. A fallen angel) could be. Again, heretical and just ridiculous. Otherwise, this was fascinating and I think absolutely absolutely worth listening to. Eat the meat and throw away the few bones.
Spurgeon also held the view that Michael was Jesus (if memory serves), in case anyone else is hearing it for the first time and wondering if it’s just a weird view.
In context, Spurgeon was referring to the archetype of Michael as a type or shadow, foreshadowing Christ as the consummate archangel, not Michael himself. Only if we are speaking of “Angelos” meaning messenger. So arch messenger (ie the gospel) perhaps. Further Daniel 8-11 also seems to differentiate between the one “like unto a man” with “bronze skin” and Michael, who is labeled Daniel’s Prince in the same paragraph and context as a dark prince of a principality was addressed. Angels as a created beings are not Christ. Indication in John was Jesus created them. He is eternally begotten of the Father. Species unique in triune relation to the Father and Spirit.
Try reading the Book of Enoch. Jude 1 refers to Enoch. Hebrews 13:2 says that we entertain angels unaware, so not all angels have wings, I think only the Cherubim and Seraphim have wings.
The idea of the divine council is incredibly shaky. The Bible much more heavily implies that God is a supreme being that sometimes listens to his lesser created beings opinions, not that he has a formal political council of which he is the chair....
I was totally with this guy on everything till Michael being another name for Jesus. That was idk if that was correct then how did Michael need power from God to fight over Moses body? Hey maybe hes right. Because Jesus wasnt given all authority till after the resurrection. You know we sometimes are so use to old ideas we can have a hard time with new ones. Sorry i was having an epiphany while writing this
Thank you so much for the stimulating conversation. I don’t find many minds to discuss things such as these with. One thing I have been interested and perplexed with. I think y’all can offer some information. Where did the population of the Earth come from that Cain had to be protected from when he was cast out of Eden? 🤔
The New Testament also tells us The Word, The Spirit and the Father are one and the same, not a trinity. And there's nothing in Daniel 10 that says the angel Gabriel was the messenger.
Unclean spirits are not fallen angels. Different fallen creature taxonomy. The scriptural and more credible apocryphal books demonic spirits are the unclean offspring of fallen angels and human women. These beings had unique attributes and dual natures. Neither angel nor man. So when they die, they have no place to go until judgement. This explains demons, Djinn, Fae, pokwadji, wendigo, etc. all one and the same across cultures.
@@HusGoose I don't believe demons are fallen angels, they are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Your answer doesn't address the question. I have my thoughts on what this means; however, it'd be nice to hear what others believe God is saying here.
@@gangelo777 my mistake, I see what you are asking now. Based on the text it either was THE Satan (Azazel or most high fallen angel, whoever that may be), or Satan in the sense that Satan is a title for a an unclean being that is an accuser, adversary or stumbling block. A being that looks like the attributes of “legion” in the end. Either way, I don’t think we are in a position to dogmatically say angels can’t possess as they suggested in this vid. Scripture doesn’t mention it apart from the verse you reference that seems to indicate angels can in fact possess.
@@HusGoose I tend to think, in the end, it was Satan in the sense of the spirit of Satan; the deceiver, adversary. "Spirit" in the sense of e.g. Luke 9:55 " 'Ye have not known of what spirit ye are;" Young's Literal Translation. Judas at that moment was about as kindred a spirit to Satan as you can get.
25:26 Read a book 30 years ago (Stolen Legacy) that talked about how the Greeks sought out knowledge from around the known world, namely Egypt and Mesopotamia, and incorporated the “sacred knowledge” from the various mystery schools into the understanding of their sciences, philosophies and pantheon. Only makes sense that they would have also obtained texts of the Jews if that time and gleaned from the narrative of the singular creator I AM/God.
So why is Satin allowed any power still? Did God know Satin would fall and corrupt His creation. And if so, why did God creat him knowing that. Or is God not truly all knowing in that sense?
26:27 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was 👉two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of Mount Chermon. CHANOK (ENOCH) 7:7
I would love to hear you guys discuss what seems to be all over RUclips (Israel Anderson and Billy Carson for example) that Yahweh was one of the sons of God appointed over Israel, not Jesus’s Father. That El Elyon and/or Anu is the Father, but Yahweh was a regional ruler over Israel and his character is not the same as Jesus’s Father and Jesus. Hence the demanding of murdering and raping women etc… and Jesus telling the Pharisees that their Father is a murderer. Has strong implications. Also makes sense as to whose law we were set free from. Could you dare discuss and dive into this?
Certainly there is much disclosure, Bobby Collier on Good God and Paul Wallis on 5th Kind and those two as mentioned. Many more are threshing it out also.
Actually Seraphim are considered to be the sons of Creator that fell. Angel is a lower lever of the El. It actually means „ Messenger“… Nephilim are the same as Titans just a different language.
It’s common knowledge if you open your mind that Michael is Jesus and created by the archangel Gabriel . I don’t know why people have to get so upset over that . I’m pretty sure that they would really be upset with some of the things I put on my channel .
8:05 that is true, that is where we get the word holy from; the word holy means set apart, and the Lord is the most Holy, as is there is none like Him. Also, Elohim is a plural word to represnt the Trinity, and in your contacts regarding the other created beings, you can think of the word referring to the layers when it comes to structure of creation. The word god means creator and a lot of different creations (including the ones you are calling "gods") have abilities over the physical, just like the Lord God Himself as a Man, walking on the water He created, which yes, He could have been doing it in the spiritual sense where it appears he is walking on the water but he is floating above the water, or, which would be substatially more miraculous, the Christ is changing the surface tension because He created and can manipulate whatever He wants, whenever He wants, so, He could have changed the water under His feet allowing Him to walk on a surface we cannot see, a surface nonetheless that is on the surface of the water. We do not currently possess His understanding, and I say currently because we are supposed to become more like Him after the marriage supper, so we can only speculate on what is written. Of I'm supposed to do something in His Name, which means something done in His Nature, I can speculate that beautiful miracle that could have happened while He walked this earth again, being born of a woman this time, because, yes, the Word that spoke Creation is the same Word that walked with Adam, and with Enoch, and spoke to Moses through a smokless bush, and, eventually came through the lineage of David to be born with 23 chromosomes (proven by science), to feel the pain we all endure through Eve. Then He saves us Hallel·uYah! There's a lot we don't understand but we do have a chance of gaining understanding, through our journey/relationship. I am ebthralled to have found this channel, yesterday! Great work, fellas!
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Heiser came to speak at my town once on his Unseen Realm book tour. I had no idea who he was at the time. I walked out of his seminar forever, which changed in my understanding of scripture.
Same
I don’t believe in a lot of the Calvinist doctrine BUT this is a home run. I like the late Mike Hesier and he is missed.
It’s refreshing to hear this kind of understanding of the divine counsel coming from Joel.
Those who reject it miss out on half the Bible and the richness of Gods glory. It’s truly right there in the word. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.
Heiser was not a Calvinist.
@@sethfarmer590 I know.
Why preface it with the "calvinist"?
@@daveonezero6258 because I’m watching a reformed channel, I agree with the content of this video but not everything on the channel.
Finding this channel and agreeing with some content doesn’t mean I agree with the full tenets of Calvin. I’m open to listening. That’s what that means.
@@bobthomas1536Yeah, Calvinism is whack.
Doug has immediate credability with me due to his “Hulk Hands” behind him on the bookshelf, over his right shoulder.
Actually a deeper mystery to me. While wearing Hulk hands It IS possible to spin the globe to his left, but not wield the sword above his head, nor play the guitars to his far right. My interpretation is that the Hulk hands are symbolic and not to be literally worn.
@@jamesbartu7803 🤣
And the 3 guitars and banjo!
All credibility is lost with the globe.
@@notheorytrue Umm, flat earther?
I have loved Greek Mythology. Started reading it in high school and I got to college and realized these people actually practiced that as a religion it blew my mind. Usually where there is smoke there will be fire.
Amen.
Then take that and see that it is all over the world. And those places are in the last few hundred years being exposed to the One True God and his Son.
@@daveonezero6258 I love reading the history of various Nations and seeing them go from under the thrall of pagan demons to becoming worshippers of Christ. Big things happen!😎👍🏻
I read Heiser's The Unseen Realm and thoroughly enjoyed it. It made SENSE and it also made me ponder these things. His admonission to think like a 1st century Jew also made a lot of sense. It opened a whole new way of looking at my Bible. Heiser always said he didn't want to protect people from their Bible's. Unfortunately, many people refuse to even consider it. I think my advantage was that I was never locked into a 'system' having come to Christ in my mid 30's. By that time I'd seen much that many never do. It kept my mind open to possibilities as well as humbled enough to know that I don't know 'everything', nor does anyone else! It's a difficult step to take but it IS rewarding.
Yes! So glad you decided to invite Doug on the podcast!
I started a Master’s degree in History and started to realize many, many things of supernatural incidence, there was some “truth” that just can’t be excused away.
Same her. While getting my history degree and teachers license I slowly went from a Pre-mill to a Post Post Amillennial, from knowing the bible and seeing the events of history that already happened.
When you read the aneid you'll get ideas like what they talk about here where regions like where try was and where future Rome will be have a god assigned by a "Lord of heaven" to those areas. This Lord seems to also be above the council of gods that are working for or against the Trojans and Italians and latins for control of the area. So these concepts are there in home and plato and Virgil and Sumeria and such. It's that thing that when From Early like Moses and Job and such to much later like Daniel and Virgil. To even later like Thomas Martyr and many Earl Church writers are all saying something similar.....we have to consider the spiritual world.
Welcome to "Unseen Realm"! 🎉
Yeey Heiser and Doug! How do these men feel bout women? 1 Tim 3:11. Female deacons.
@@DeaconBeanCooter Heiser said that he could argue either way, and once challenged someone to "make him care" about the subject.
@@Navarrator10 sounds like slander
@@DeaconBeanCooter please explain. He said this on his Naked Bible Podcast
@@Navarrator10 cite it
After listening to Heiser, I watched Lord of the Rings again and my thought was "Wow Tolkien knew this divine counsel, fallen angel view well".
😂
Tolkien was a brilliant storyteller. It is so fascinating to realize he incorporated Christianity into many of his fantasy narratives. The dangers of lust of the eyes, flesh, pride of life seen in many characters, the concept of redemption and grace amidst failure. . . . Very Christ-like. It is time the Church reclaim the Arts and their unique way of conveying Truth.
I’ve been studying Dr Heisers work over the last year. Very provocative, to say the least. This was a great compliment to that, thank you Pastor Joel and RR ministries.
This discussion really makes you think and just opens up the scriptures in so many ways …. we tend to be too rigid in our thinking!
Man, these talks are so fascinating! Thank you, Pastor Joel!
Absolutely!!
I was entirely on board except for the Michael being Jesus. Nope nope nope
Thanks for the heads up. I won't be wasting my time with this.
Agreed 👍
You're over simplifying what he said. You need to actually listen to how he explains it, remember names werent and aren't JUST names, they had meaning and description and attributes to the name / word. I understand what he means, and its plausible without being heretical.
@@anthonygamboa3146 Michael is not Jesus, Just as Adam in not Jesus, nor is Joseph Jesus. Names are given to individuals, not to be twisted by man to give new meaning and confluences to nonsense.
@@markharris27 Except for the comments, im out a here!
Another great program.
Doug's books on the angel of the Lord/Christophany are excellent.
Let us make man in our image, is the Triune God, void of any other counsel. In the image of ‘who?’ He made them. In the image of God, He made them. To say that He was saying to multiple creatures, let us make man in all of our image, does not fit, does not follow. As brother Voddie would say, “that dog won’t hunt”.
Thanks for the information!. The late Dr Michael Heiser really connected many many dots for me with his insight into the divine council. The idea is to let the Bible be the bible and read the text within the context. Critics of Mike obviously didn't hear what he said over and over again. Scholars know all the information I'm speaking of but they don't teach it. He definitely had the credentials to teach what he did. Carry on with the truth. ❤❤❤
Thank you brothers this is march tenth. Heavens Gate is the cult you couldn't remember.
Please pray for me I have cerBraley Palsy and COPD from years of smoking.i quit 3 years ago,but the damage was done. I been in the hospital's ICU 3 times from acute lung failure. This is torture.i am alone.My family is gone. It's frightening when you Or fighting for your next breath of air, but I called on Jesus in my desperate and he saved from death 3 times in the last 30 days.
I have no help besides Jesus. NY church hasn't even visited me. That really hurt my ♥.
I love your program.I want you a lot, Because I can't get this kind teaching at the church. I attend when I am able due to too health. I just want my flesh and blood family to cand and my church take care also.. I spent my life doing for everybody else And now that my health is Failing me no one is there.....
I truly know that Jesus is comi.Mean very soon very soon.Because time is past short.
God loves you and so do all of your brothers and sisters in Christ! I love you brother and I am praying for God to help you in anyway that you need!!❤❤❤❤
"You draw near in the day that I called on Thee. You said "fear not". O Lord, you have pleaded the case of my soul; you have redeemed my life".
Prayers for you and for blessings and comfort from the Lord. And I pray that family and church will visit you.
I would have appreciated taking the time to have anyone on this discussion clearly differentiate between their working theories and speculations from their Biblically based analysis. This guest seemed to speak everything so matter-of-factly…no matter his topic
Read The Unseen Realm by Dr Michael Heiser.😊
I'm familiar with Doug from watching the Iron and Myth gang roundtable discussions - Derek Gilbert, Doug Van Dorn, Brian Godawa, and Judd Burton. I would imagine if you like this kind of open-minded discussion, you'd like those too.
Interesting! We the people, demand more!
Love the content
Very interesting discussion. “Michael,” “serpentine Watcher,” and pigs losing their minds. You both made this great. Thank you.
Excellent conversation. Thank you.
Michael Heiser vibes, love it!
Yup. Too many Xtian have no supernatural worldview and are fearful of Heiser. Heiserphobes. I'd call this progress, if Joel's crew didn't insist upon a 'boys only club' in his church ....counter to scriptures 1 Tim 3:11. Female deacons.
@@DeaconBeanCooter 1 Tim literally specifies deacons are exclusively men. The women mentioned in verse 11 would be their wives. Read the context of church leaders in the preceding section. The sections of Decon follows the same flow.
@@HusGoose you are incorrect and displayed to not have even attempted to research the original language.
Lolz you logic has requirements for dcns wives but not pastors wife and that silly pronoun you can't accommodate for in 1 Tim 3:11. Don't bother yourself with study. We're low on dumb xtians. Oh wait there you are
@@HusGoose literally pick up an interlinear
What is "Reformed"? Every time i look it up. Lots of words with very little in defining thought, are given on every website i have looked at.
From what i can tell. There are a number of opinions the host has that i would disagree with. However, his willingness to have on guests that maybe just outside of his comfort zone, and desire to learn the bible with willingness to hear out challenging ideas. Is what has kept me coming back for a number of talks, and discussions.
“Reformed”, is Protestant churches based on the teachings of the Reformers, who broke away from the Roman Catholic Church, like Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. The only problem is, we’re supposed to be following the teachings of God’s Word, not the teachings of man. That’s why many Protestant churches are apostate today, because they preach the doctrine of men, rather doing as scripture commands, and preach the Word of YHVH directly from the ßißle. Not feel good sermons about how Jesus wants endless riches and blessings for you in this life, which has no basis in scripture. Jesus promises us that we will have really difficult times if we choose to serve Him, and preach the true gospel, and the truth of His Word. He says the world will despise us for our testimony of Him, and we’ll be hàted for His name’s sake. The disciples certainly never experienced all those riches and endless blessings the prosperity preachers proclaim, because it’s not biblical. A lot of these Protestant believers deny the events of Genesis 6, and the creation of the giants through faIlen angels and human women mating, even though it’s sound doctrine, and it’s discussed elsewhere in scripture.
@@Redeemed.of.YHVH.thru.Christ Thank you for taking the time to share this insight. Does the reformed community have a united stance on the creation account. As in 6 literal days of creation or other interpretation?
When they say "Reform" they actually mean Calvinism. It's a philosophy of belief of how God does things. Calvinism is another flavor of Christianity. And it is absolutely false.
All Protestants or modern Christians "reformed" out of the Roman Catholic church. That's the general meaning. But thats not what they mean when these modern Pastors and Teachers say reform, they mean Calvinism. It's an ugly doctrine that they hide under a number of names to make it more palatable. Search T.U.L.I.P. and John Calvin then you will know.
@@simplearthling Thank you for the information. i'm aware of calvinism. It took me a bit to work through. i do not remember hearing the connection between reformed and calvinist before.
In small doses i don't mind calvinists. When taken too far. It is horribly egotistical.
@@jackfrost2978Toby sumpter has a 6 part sermon series that was recently released called “what is reformed anyway” and I think it would be helpful!
I’m stoked for this!
I have often thought that the story's of the Greek gods were fallen and the children of the fallen , this is awesome information and insight, much love and appreciation God bless you and your beautiful families
Jesus Christ is king 👑💕 God bless
I am currently reading Brian Gadawa’s books now! Such fascinating books and really puts flesh on so many biblical scriptures.
Yes! It’s been fascinating! I just hate how detailed it gets in some of the violence and depravity.
It is so great to hear a conversation on the time before the great flood. I think that hold the secrets to our past. And it is never taught. Thank you for publishing this.
Holy... That point about Michael is super fascinating to ponder.
As a Fellow Reformed Baptist, I have the same views as Doug Van Dorn.
This is good stuff! People need to listen in detail and all the way, before jumping to conclusions :)
I like that “the word myth means it’s just an origin story.” I worked with a woman in her 70’s, who was raised in Greece, and she said in grade school, she was taught that Greek “mythology” was their history.
Myth means exaggerated truth
@@Venom-33381 maybe less exaggeration than we were led to believe :)
@@MariaWalker-qo3vi for sure, I've studied as a hobby Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and some Mayan mythology always thinking it had to have some connection to Lucifer and the 1/3 that rebelled with him.
When I went to a dead sea scroll exhibition, and then read the book of Enoch. The solid connection hit like a Mac truck and a bolt of lightning.
Love Doug!! This is a great convo!
Great content! This is important since more and more people are having supernatural experiences coming into contact with “beings” who apparently have a lot to say. So understanding origin stories of common supernatural beings can be helpful. It’s most important for people in these situations to know Christ is king over all and the strongman has been bound, on a leash. There’s freedom in Christ and Christ alone, everything else is bondage.
Also, when you realize we are the fallen ones… you will begin to gain wisdom.
Around 6:00 re: "Cyclops". Remember this word literally means "round eye". Not "one eye". If that clears anything up.
You can trust any dad with a huge bookcase, swords, hulk hands, and guitars in the background
My theory is that when a nation is converted to Christianity the fallen Angel that rules that nation is overthrown and one of the saints, who are ruling with Christ, becomes the ruler of that nation. I think this is where the idea of Patron Saints comes from. So, Christian nations like Norway and America no longer have fallen Angels ruling over them, but an unconverted nation like India is still ruled by a fallen Angel.
this is the same conclusion that I came to, the nephilim showed up again when the Father assigned other Elohim to look after their provinces and some of them once again sinned the unpardonable sin and created offspring.
Very interesting man. I find it refreshing listening to these different opinions and interpretations of the scriptures. It’s way better than listening to stuff like Ancient aliens or Billy Carson who quote the Bible out of context. Thank you and may God bless the work you are doing and lead you to the truth that you sincerely are seeking.
At about 18:55, Doug is talking about Adam and Eve hiding among trees of the garden. Well that brings to mind the blind man, who Jesus healed with pure saliva, and he sees too well. He sees „men like trees.“
Ive been enjoying and learning from both doug and joel over the past several months because of haunted cosmos. Having both in one show was pretty great! Thank you!
Love this channel. But I love Christ Jesus more
😂👍🏻❤️
Heiser points out that the "sons of Israel" is inaccurate because Israel didn't exist. ❤
Jud 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" .... "Lord" in the New Testament is always Jesus, This speaks of TWO individuals.
Unless he can prove in this case it's not speaking about Jesus as Lord in this passage. He would still have problems with the first part of the verse,
"But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment,"
If Michael is simply another name for Jesus, and Jesus is YAHWEH, Than WHY did Michael / Jesus simply say with the authority of YAHWEH God, "I rebuke you"... Personally, I think it's heretical.
Personally, all this Nephilim speculation is going to far. The bible gives very little information on this and going to other non inspired books does not help. How do you know they were not exaggerating, the stories simply got bigger when they were past down from generation to generation.
Doug Van Dorn speculation is going too far. If I was a member of his church I would leave, I was a member of cult once and this to me is going way too far, when the bible has very little information on this we should not go. All this feeding is unhealth speculation about what God gives very little information on. It could lead others astray.
JW's were right but also wrong... Could lead weak Christians into looking at what else do JW's have that could be right but also wrong, and lead them away from God right into the hands of a cult...
Valid points. Good questions
Very interesting conversation. Lost me with Michael being
Jesus tho, but I enjoyed this.
Heiser taught that God became a lowercase g god as part of the council. In that sense, his lowercase god nature would certainly have been a created sort of like Jesus's human nature was created.
Not only that, Heiser believed that people would become gods as well. He also said that the old testament has to be interpreted though the lense of Babylonian religions. Heiser was a heretic.
@@UnderTheFloor79 Well, the Pharisees also called Jesus a heretic so there you go. Things you ppl don't understand u start throwing boogeyman words. We believers in Yeshua will rule will him when heaven comes to earth. The bible says we will rule over angels! That essentially makes us "gods" lowercase "g". I think you're just stuck on the word "god." It just means spirit beings in the Hebrew, i.e. elohim. They call GOD elohim, angels elohim, and deceased human spirits as elohim... aka a god, a spirit being, not THE GOD Almighty, or the Great Spirit, Who's proper name is JeHoVaH.
@@UnderTheFloor79 The Archangel Michael "could" be Jesus. Jesus wasn't Jesus until he was born in the flesh. So I guess Michael could be Jesus in Spirit and angel form cuz the name or title, Michael = Who is Like God is probably Yeshua Jesus, because no one is like God but the Son, Yeshua Jesus. And "angel" is a title and position, not the noun for a flying chub with wings. Like saying "Kernel" it's a military position, not the KFC guy. So the "angel" of the Lord means the "messenger" of the Lord, or in effect His emissary, and who can be the emissary of God but God Himself? Therefore Yeshua Jesus. If you do the studies on "the angel of the Lord" in the old testament, you will also find that likely that was also Yeshua Jesus. He is the ultimate commander-in-chief that led all the patriarchs into battle with the giants and clearing those lands for his people, the Israelites. These are some of the things of God that you don't know and think of Him (Jesus) as just the lamb. But you don't know that He was also the Lion of Judah, Yeshua Jesus the one True God and King of Kings, the Warrior of Heaven and Commander-in-Chief of Heaven and Earth and He played different "positions" at different times. There are so many facets of our wonderful God, may all Glory and Honor be unto Him, King Yeshua forever and ever Amen!
@@UnderTheFloor79 That is a complete misrepresentation of what he says. His opinion is, ancient pagan text of the nations that surrounded Israel had similar phrasing and concepts because of when they lived and where they lived. He’s very clear that these phrases were used by the writers of the Old Testament to fight back against the pagan war with Yahweh. The text gave the readers of the Old Testament context. I can walk into a Christian bookstore and find thousands of books that are not canon that use secular themes to demonstrate Christian truth in their books. It’s the same thing. For example a Christian author may quote a well-known atheist to make a point, they may put that quote in their book and then use analysis to debunk the quote. The atheist words are now in the Christian writers book. We see it all the time, that’s what Heiser is talking about.
Also Heiser did not say that God demotes himself to sit on a council. Just a basic reading of the Bible tells you that “Jesus was made a little lower than the angels”. But he is still God!
Did he demote himself in this case? Of course not.
@@bobthomas1536 Michael meaning who is like God couldn't be Jesus because Jesus is God
The power’s & principalities are classes of angels! Your connecting dots for me- the Tartarus from Plato is the Tart-aria myth of the lost continent! That’s where the giants were, the land of the giants! And the shining serpent people explained things, also the DEEP reference! Wow, everything happens for a reason. There are no accidents
Very interesting conversation.
I think SDA also believes that Jesus is Michael/the Angel of the Lord. But they believe he is God, the second of the Trinity. It is very interesting and there are passages in the scriptures that seem to point to this being so.
57:41 a serpent with legs sounds like a dragon.
Yes
If you look in Job, hes clearly describing a dragon like creature. Says when he sneezes fire comes forth
My thoughts exactly. Thinking of the serpent as a dragon makes a lot more sense of why God cursed it to crawl on its belly
@@RightResponseMinistries could be a reptilian
Yay for Paxmail 🙏🏻 waiting for such a youtube too 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Gentry's Revelation Commentary IS available for pre-order now and should be released within a month. "The Divorce of Israel"
I wish Joseph Campbell were alive at the same time as doctor Heiser was so that so they could discuss the divine council and what it means Mythologically, that would be a great discussion.
I want to re-ask the question; Were the Sons of God who were assigned to rule over the nations the same ones who originally rebelled against God in the begining. . . . or, were they "good guys" who, once they became rulers over geographical territories, became corrupt? Were there multiple rebellions by these Sons of God?
When Jesus sent the demons into the pigs, that was the first recorded instance of deviled ham!
I believe Matthew Henry and Matthew Poole believe Michael the Archangel is Jesus.
Not sure what I think, but Henry and Poole are solid.
Don't, forget The Prince of Preachers Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Augustus Toplady, and Most if Not All The Reformers and Great Men of The Faith. Where JWs are wrong is they believe Jesus is a created being. In Jude 1:9 The reason Michael just another name and title for Jesus, doesn't rebuke Satan is because he's still Pre-Incarnate and so God The Father did all the rebuking.
Kept seeing Judgement of the Nephilim and The Final Nephilim by Ryan Pitterson listed when I was in Amazon’s books…bought them both and now in the second book which deals more w/prophecy in the last days…fascinating and he has certainly done his research…very biblically based. Would love to see him on a Right Response podcast…
I do not agree that Jesus is Michael and it seems dangerous to teach that to people. An angel is a created being and Christ is God, The Creator. Jesus is not an angel and yet scripture states clearly in Jude 1:9 that Michael is. Furthermore, in that scripture it says Michael was contending with the devil and did not pronounce a blasphemous judgement on him and instead said The Lord rebuke you. If Michael were Christ he would have the power to rebuke the devil because Christ is God and equal with The Father.
You didn't listen. That's not what the guy said. He spoke of a title used, that was used to describe both. Just as Jesus has many titles, so Michael was called by different titles. Scripture also says that Jesus would be called the Everlasting Father. Does that make Jesus the Father? No, obviously not. Was that prophecy still fulfilled? Yes. Just as the Father is called different titles. So as Satan has had different titles throughout history. Try listening to understand, not to respond.
Nothing that you said contradicts what @kristinlowther6260 said.
Scripture clearly states that Satan is a created being and also Michael did not have the authority to fully rebuke Satan.
Christ is not a created being and Christ is “Lord” so Michael would not have deferred to the lord if he was indeed Christ, he would have had full authority to rebuke Satan then and there.
@@nightrider963 he never said that Michael was ever called Lord. Do you not understand English? Angel of the Lord, does not say that that Angel is either Lord or not the Lord. It says "of the", which means "originating from", not is that thing. Humans are the "dust of the earth", we are not the earth, but we do originate from dust. Micheal and any other Angel, are indeed Angels of the Lord, because they originate from Him. Duh. Use some logic instead of trying to be right. Try again. Don't be like a lefty and get triggered. Instead, actually listen or read to understand.
@@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar
I am nit the least bit triggered, and I understand English perfectly.
I am not the one who has to attempt to demean others to try to win his point.
Before I go any further can you answer these questions;
Are you saying that Doug VanDorn was only saying that Christ and Michal shared a similar title such as an Angel of the Lord ??
Do you agree or disagree that Michael and Christ is one and the same. ???
It seems that we are talking past one another because none of my points had anything to do with the “Angel of the Lord” however I have studied the subject deeply and will tespond with scriptural support that addresses your answers.
@@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar I find it interesting you use insults to make your point. It’s a reflection of your current character. That is something you would be wise to ponder and bring before the Lord in prayer. If you are a brother in Christ then you know we are not to be insulting when speaking with other brothers and sisters in the faith. If another believer is wrong then bring forth the truth with grace, if you can’t do that then choose silence. Also, making insults makes you lose credibility in the points you are trying to make. Others would be more likely to hear you out and consider your words if you weren’t insulting them.
This was amazing .I'm subscribing
I just don't understand how anyone who has read the bible for themselves without having it taught to them by a church previously, would ever come away thinking the 'trinity' was a thing?
I don't understand why some of us assume it's better to "read something on our own" than to have it taught to us?
Have you ever wondered where that Bias toward individuality/self-sufficiency comes from?
@@amandamckinney928 No, I haven't given it any thought, I like to think for myself.
Because Jesus called himself God and said he would send the Comforter to us. The Comforter indwells millions of people simultaneously...only an omnipresent being can do that. It's very obvious to me based solely on what is written.
31:20 bound to this earth, as mentioned in Isaiah. When you mentioned the Tower of Babel being like the building of a mountain, it goes back to any pyramid structure or obelisk, being a representation of Lucifer himself trying to climb his way out yet he is bound to this earth as he has fallen. That's how he can prowl around but he cannot leave. Not even in one of those fancy flying discs😂😂😂
Very interesting interview. A lot of "wow... Never thought about it that way" moments for sure. He definitely has a lot of knowledge (speaking about extra-biblical texts like the Lost Books of Adam and Eve, the Apocalypse of Abraham, First Enoch was very interesting) and has clearly done deep study. However, there were a few red flags that stuck out that I'm not sure what how to reconcile:
1) A-millenialism. I cannot believe any aware, thinking person can possibly hold the view that we are currently in some ambiguous "spiritual" millennial reign as we speak. Firstly, the Scriptures are pretty clear it's a physical, literal thousand year period where Yeshua will reign on earth with those who were killed during the Great Tribulation (I submit that is yet a future event, likely right around the corner), but secondly... Has he looked around? He himself near the beginning of this interview I believe, even said mankind has never been more wicked than it is now over the past few years. So... I'm sorry, but how you can hold that truthful observational viewpoint and also somehow claim Christ is currently reigning is absurd.
2) He's claiming God the Father, The Most High, and YHWH... Are NOT the same?! This is heretical, imho.
3) He's further claiming YHWH is Yeshua? What? Again, heretical.
4) He's claiming Michael (who he earlier described as being the one held up by the Prince of Persia) is Yeshua? And not an Archangel, which the Scriptures describe him as more than once? I'm sorry, but Jesus would not be held up by another Prince, yet a being of equal footing (I. E. An archangel vs. A fallen angel) could be. Again, heretical and just ridiculous.
Otherwise, this was fascinating and I think absolutely absolutely worth listening to. Eat the meat and throw away the few bones.
That’s why they had the living trees in the wizard of oz !!
When it comes to the serpent, one thing of note is that seraphim means flaming serpent.
Spurgeon also held the view that Michael was Jesus (if memory serves), in case anyone else is hearing it for the first time and wondering if it’s just a weird view.
In context, Spurgeon was referring to the archetype of Michael as a type or shadow, foreshadowing Christ as the consummate archangel, not Michael himself.
Only if we are speaking of “Angelos” meaning messenger. So arch messenger (ie the gospel) perhaps. Further Daniel 8-11 also seems to differentiate between the one “like unto a man” with “bronze skin” and Michael, who is labeled Daniel’s Prince in the same paragraph and context as a dark prince of a principality was addressed.
Angels as a created beings are not Christ. Indication in John was Jesus created them. He is eternally begotten of the Father. Species unique in triune relation to the Father and Spirit.
Very insightful. Great podcast 👊🏼
I subscribed because I like your subject matter, I unsubscribed because you have too many ads during the discussion.
"Michael, one of the chief princes," - Jesus is not one of anything- he is THE ONE!
Try reading the Book of Enoch. Jude 1 refers to Enoch. Hebrews 13:2 says that we entertain angels unaware, so not all angels have wings, I think only the Cherubim and Seraphim have wings.
The idea of the divine council is incredibly shaky. The Bible much more heavily implies that God is a supreme being that sometimes listens to his lesser created beings opinions, not that he has a formal political council of which he is the chair....
What is the difference between the two?
Would you consider the church formal?
That could make logical sense, councils have always existed in the Heavens unto Earth, Even a few young men got to see it and kinda freaked out📕🔍🤔😂😄👍
Every king would have a council
God is all-knowing so why would He need a council?
It was good up to the part where Michael is referred to Jesus
I was totally with this guy on everything till Michael being another name for Jesus. That was idk if that was correct then how did Michael need power from God to fight over Moses body? Hey maybe hes right. Because Jesus wasnt given all authority till after the resurrection. You know we sometimes are so use to old ideas we can have a hard time with new ones. Sorry i was having an epiphany while writing this
Thank you so much for the stimulating conversation. I don’t find many minds to discuss things such as these with.
One thing I have been interested and perplexed with. I think y’all can offer some information.
Where did the population of the Earth come from that Cain had to be protected from when he was cast out of Eden? 🤔
His siblings
So many commercials you're just getting into listsling and boom a commercial advertisement
Why were there still Nephilim after the flood? A second incursion?
The New Testament also tells us The Word, The Spirit and the Father are one and the same, not a trinity.
And there's nothing in Daniel 10 that says the angel Gabriel was the messenger.
Thanks!
Thank you!!
If fallen angels don’t possess people, why did Satan enter Judas?
Unclean spirits are not fallen angels. Different fallen creature taxonomy.
The scriptural and more credible apocryphal books demonic spirits are the unclean offspring of fallen angels and human women. These beings had unique attributes and dual natures. Neither angel nor man. So when they die, they have no place to go until judgement.
This explains demons, Djinn, Fae, pokwadji, wendigo, etc. all one and the same across cultures.
@@HusGoose I don't believe demons are fallen angels, they are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Your answer doesn't address the question. I have my thoughts on what this means; however, it'd be nice to hear what others believe God is saying here.
@@gangelo777 my mistake, I see what you are asking now.
Based on the text it either was THE Satan (Azazel or most high fallen angel, whoever that may be), or Satan in the sense that Satan is a title for a an unclean being that is an accuser, adversary or stumbling block. A being that looks like the attributes of “legion” in the end.
Either way, I don’t think we are in a position to dogmatically say angels can’t possess as they suggested in this vid. Scripture doesn’t mention it apart from the verse you reference that seems to indicate angels can in fact possess.
@@HusGoose I tend to think, in the end, it was Satan in the sense of the spirit of Satan; the deceiver, adversary. "Spirit" in the sense of e.g. Luke 9:55 " 'Ye have not known of what spirit ye are;" Young's Literal Translation. Judas at that moment was about as kindred a spirit to Satan as you can get.
@@gangelo777 I believe you are likely correct. We will both find out in time!
Game changing
25:26 Read a book 30 years ago (Stolen Legacy) that talked about how the Greeks sought out knowledge from around the known world, namely Egypt and Mesopotamia, and incorporated the “sacred knowledge” from the various mystery schools into the understanding of their sciences, philosophies and pantheon. Only makes sense that they would have also obtained texts of the Jews if that time and gleaned from the narrative of the singular creator I AM/God.
So why is Satin allowed any power still?
Did God know Satin would fall and corrupt His creation. And if so, why did God creat him knowing that.
Or is God not truly all knowing in that sense?
Interesting content.
26:27 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was 👉two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of Mount Chermon. CHANOK (ENOCH) 7:7
Seventh Day Adventist also believe Micheal is Jesus.
I always hit the brakes when Doug speaks!
In Daniel Michael is referred to as “one of the chief princes”. Jesus is God not one of many 12:58 .
The more I ask, the more I realize I don't know
I would love to hear you guys discuss what seems to be all over RUclips (Israel Anderson and Billy Carson for example) that Yahweh was one of the sons of God appointed over Israel, not Jesus’s Father. That El Elyon and/or Anu is the Father, but Yahweh was a regional ruler over Israel and his character is not the same as Jesus’s Father and Jesus. Hence the demanding of murdering and raping women etc… and Jesus telling the Pharisees that their Father is a murderer. Has strong implications. Also makes sense as to whose law we were set free from. Could you dare discuss and dive into this?
38:49 - his allotment - this is interesting with the idea Yahweh is a son, not the Father.
Certainly there is much disclosure, Bobby Collier on Good God and Paul Wallis on 5th Kind and those two as mentioned. Many more are threshing it out also.
The only creatures that fit the description of the serpent is a fallen seraphim.
Angels are called sons of God and the fallen angels were and are the gods the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian myths are about.
Actually Seraphim are considered to be the sons of Creator that fell. Angel is a lower lever of the El. It actually means „ Messenger“… Nephilim are the same as Titans just a different language.
@@robinpresleywoodward I agree 100% I used the term Angel as a general description
It’s common knowledge if you open your mind that Michael is Jesus and created by the archangel Gabriel . I don’t know why people have to get so upset over that . I’m pretty sure that they would really be upset with some of the things I put on my channel .
Jesus Christ is the SON of God Almighty.
29:09 if Zeus were part of this second group that wouldn't make very much sense cos in the mythos Zeus just about impregnated half of the world 😂😂
Had me till the Michael thing. I'll pass this along as I do the posts of others, but not as an endorsement. Sorry Mr Dorn
The self declared gnostic private calvinist Anglican man preacher host.😂
Check The Second Coming of Saturn by Dr Derrick Glibert. He covers all of thrle myth genealogies. Good read
44:21 why not call Him Immanuel like they were told to? 🤷♀️
Michael as another name for Christ? Sketchy stuff..
How is Jude 1:9 explained then?
8:05 that is true, that is where we get the word holy from; the word holy means set apart, and the Lord is the most Holy, as is there is none like Him. Also, Elohim is a plural word to represnt the Trinity, and in your contacts regarding the other created beings, you can think of the word referring to the layers when it comes to structure of creation. The word god means creator and a lot of different creations (including the ones you are calling "gods") have abilities over the physical, just like the Lord God Himself as a Man, walking on the water He created, which yes, He could have been doing it in the spiritual sense where it appears he is walking on the water but he is floating above the water, or, which would be substatially more miraculous, the Christ is changing the surface tension because He created and can manipulate whatever He wants, whenever He wants, so, He could have changed the water under His feet allowing Him to walk on a surface we cannot see, a surface nonetheless that is on the surface of the water.
We do not currently possess His understanding, and I say currently because we are supposed to become more like Him after the marriage supper, so we can only speculate on what is written. Of I'm supposed to do something in His Name, which means something done in His Nature, I can speculate that beautiful miracle that could have happened while He walked this earth again, being born of a woman this time, because, yes, the Word that spoke Creation is the same Word that walked with Adam, and with Enoch, and spoke to Moses through a smokless bush, and, eventually came through the lineage of David to be born with 23 chromosomes (proven by science), to feel the pain we all endure through Eve. Then He saves us Hallel·uYah!
There's a lot we don't understand but we do have a chance of gaining understanding, through our journey/relationship. I am ebthralled to have found this channel, yesterday! Great work, fellas!
Gentry's commentary is done now.