My heart breaks more with each part of you testimony and understanding of Calvinism. Started listening to pastors that were Calvinist. I ask “are they going to Heaven?” Then I think of Paul saying “if a man preach any other Gospel unto you other that which you have heard from me, let him be accursed. Questions the many who have been drawn into Calvinism over the last years. Are they a whole group oh more people we believe to be saved yet are knot. I’m just starting this voyage. I’m not Calvinist but started watching Pasternak were. I have so many questions. Thank you for showing me the light
Thank you for taking the time to post this, these are the exact logical conclusions Im having and you'd be amazed at how the conversations heat up real fast when a genuinely ask these questions, So where are you fellowshipping now and hw did you find that, In my area I seam to find either easy beliveisum ( which is almost every church Ive been to) or these guys where I am now who at least say you cant go to heaven if you in deliberate un repentant sin. Piper really woke me up to my Idolatry in my life which I had no idea because no church Ive ever been to talks about making Jesus your treasure. But I can clearly see Im a square peg trying to fit a round hole right now what did you look for on a church website that signals Not Calvanisum
We attend my hometown Baptist church. I know it can be difficult to find a good church, but they're out there! I love Piper as well; I simply disagree with his Calvinism. I believe that we should be the voice of reason and sound doctrine wherever we are at. People get heated when they feel like they cannot adequacy defend their position. It's their insecurity coming out. A confident person can stay calm because they know how to defend what they believe. Maybe if you keep pressing in, in love, and approach it from the angle of wanting to test all things to the authority of Scripture, some of them will start to listen. The best way I know how to search for a church and figure out if it is Calvinist leaning is to look at their resource page. What books are they recommending to their members? Specifically, are their soteriology sources Reformed? If you're not sure, do a google search of these sources. Are the authors Calvinist? That's the best advice I can give you. God bless you!
Respectfully, you are more than within your rights to reject Calvinism, but this is not an honest attempt to debate John Calvin's writing. 3:31 You are quoting Calvin but not quoting his argument addressing your issue with sin. This is taken from Chapter 16 which is addressing and refuting other points. In Chapter 18 of the same book, he addresses your argument of sin and determinism exactly. Why not debate those points?
Thank you for your comment! I will most certainly address that in the near future, and this is only a brief overview for those who may not know anything about Calvinism. I will do my best to accurately represent my Calvinist brothers and sisters and talk through their best arguments. Calvin and Piper would affirm everything I quoted but would simply maintain that mankind is culpable for sin. I'm simply saying I don't find this rational but yes, I will go over Calvin's best arguments. God bless!
"it's within his rights to reject Calvinism" ??? ... 'respectfully' if that is so, that in itself disproves Calvinism and EDD which is core to its framework...
@@unitedstates3068 Game, Match, Set.🎯 Calvinists are constantly speaking in casual conversation "as if" they have free will. If you pay attention, it seems to never fail. BUT, to violate a core belief like that always puzzles me. It is something I would never do. I would never say "accidentally" that I thought abortion was OK and be forced to correct myself as if I'd misspoken. Yet, on the issue of man's freedom to make actual choices that matter, many, if not most, Calvinists do this quite often.... and HATE it when you point this out. 🤷🏻♂ When forced, they will admit the irony of their belief and try to find refuge, as Calvin himself did, in 'mystery'. But there is no refuge to be found. Most seem to constantly struggle to maintain balance within the 'tension' they've become so fond of regarding their view of man's responsibility and God's sovereignty. It seems that Calvinists are impervious to cognitive dissonance.... It's their Super Power. Properly understood and defined.... there is no 'tension' God is free to do as he pleases and not required to control anything simply because he could if he wanted to. And, God has bestowed man with the freedom to choose to do 'well'...or not. As he instructed Cain in Gen.4. Doing 'well' is pleasing to God, but it is not "salvific". God is merciful and gracious to save whosoever will believe. Total Inability "from birth" is an Augustinian myth unsupported by any verse in scripture. Scripture says the God made man in his own image. THAT matters. But Determinism ultimately teaches that man does NOT matter. However, man cannot live daily as if he does not matter. It is emotionally, mentally, and even physically destructive to one's own well-being, it's very unhealthy. One man is said to have commented that, "Everything is so much easier... now that I've given up all hope."😎... But it didn't last.
@@unitedstates3068 Wow, that's bigger than the original strawman. That's the equivalent of "Can God create a rock so big that he cannot lift it?" If your understanding of Calvinism or determinism is that you have no control, then you truly don't understand the thing you are rejecting.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT OK, Let's play the over intentional simplification in reverse: In which areas is man more sovereign than God? By your definition above, God has intentionally given up sovereignty in some areas. Which areas are those?
thank you for sharing your heart and journey. I know this is one that is deeply personal. may the Lord use it to open the eyes of many to our amazing Father Who truly desires ALL to come to Him! And we can trust Him when He says that without any doubt!
Your rant on Calvinism blurs the difference between God's will of purpose and his will of command. Man is responsible to obey his commands but his will of purpose is secret. See Deut. 29:29. I would also like to point out that your Anti-Calvinism makes man's will the determiner and the determined, which makes man's will both cause and effect. Also, Paul tells us that man can only have true freedom by being a servant of Christ (1 Cor. 7:22).
Do you believe God decrees in His will of "purpose" who will not obey His will of "command," or is that something we determine before the foundation of the world and God simply decrees all other things that come to pass?
God according to His own purpose and grace has seen fit to spare a multitude of Adam's fallen race the just condemnation of their sin (2 Tim 1:9) while leaving others lost to justice. God does not one person by showing mercy to another.
I don't see how Arminianism is any less hopeless than Calvinism. We've got a weird schizophrenic God if He's 100 percent influenced by human choices. They're both hard deterministic universes.
I disagree. I'm not an Arminian but Arminians don't believe or teach that God is 100% influenced by human choices, only that He has determined to allow them and still brings about all of His purposes in spite of them. This is the true chess master, who doesn't need to control both sides of the chess board to ensure His victory. A true chess master wins because he is just that good at chess. Knowledge of how to defeat your opponent is not the same thing as moving the pieces for them. Knowledge and causation should not be conflated.
@@beberean612 A true chess master would win the game. Not lose most of the pieces. Look at deconstruction, shifting moral values and general immorality across time. If salvation is entirely based on human decisions we are so screwed it isn't even funny. God feeling some nebulous love for us is utterly meaningless if the end result is we still roast in Hell. Resistable Grace and limited atonement are both deeply nihilistic worldviews which lead to even small children think they'll never measure up to some arbitrary standard of good that keeps changing based on culture. If we say only good natured believers can be saved we're screwed. If we say only good natured people get saved we're equally screwed. If we say only believers get saved we've got God creating people who will definitely roast for having the misfortune of being born in the wrong place at the wrong time. If we say everyone gets saved we're just wasting our time. There's no hope in any view where if you mess up you get set on fire.
My heart breaks more with each part of you testimony and understanding of Calvinism. Started listening to pastors that were Calvinist. I ask “are they going to Heaven?” Then I think of Paul saying “if a man preach any other Gospel unto you other that which you have heard from me, let him be accursed. Questions the many who have been drawn into Calvinism over the last years. Are they a whole group oh more people we believe to be saved yet are knot. I’m just starting this voyage. I’m not Calvinist but started watching Pasternak were. I have so many questions. Thank you for showing me the light
God bless and thank you for your comment! If you have any questions, even if I don't know the answer, I will get an answer for you.
Thank you for taking the time to post this, these are the exact logical conclusions Im having and you'd be amazed at how the conversations heat up real fast when a genuinely ask these questions, So where are you fellowshipping now and hw did you find that, In my area I seam to find either easy beliveisum ( which is almost every church Ive been to) or these guys where I am now who at least say you cant go to heaven if you in deliberate un repentant sin. Piper really woke me up to my Idolatry in my life which I had no idea because no church Ive ever been to talks about making Jesus your treasure. But I can clearly see Im a square peg trying to fit a round hole right now what did you look for on a church website that signals Not Calvanisum
We attend my hometown Baptist church. I know it can be difficult to find a good church, but they're out there! I love Piper as well; I simply disagree with his Calvinism. I believe that we should be the voice of reason and sound doctrine wherever we are at. People get heated when they feel like they cannot adequacy defend their position. It's their insecurity coming out. A confident person can stay calm because they know how to defend what they believe. Maybe if you keep pressing in, in love, and approach it from the angle of wanting to test all things to the authority of Scripture, some of them will start to listen. The best way I know how to search for a church and figure out if it is Calvinist leaning is to look at their resource page. What books are they recommending to their members? Specifically, are their soteriology sources Reformed? If you're not sure, do a google search of these sources. Are the authors Calvinist? That's the best advice I can give you. God bless you!
Do you believe that God is omniscient?
Yes.
@@beberean612 did he know our exact sins before creating anything?
@@chrismabe2661 Yes.
@@beberean612 doesn’t it follow then that there is a sense in which God determines those sins to happen when he creates reality from nothing?
Calvinism doesn’t give people an excuse, it gives people a reason not to believe. Great video!
Respectfully, you are more than within your rights to reject Calvinism, but this is not an honest attempt to debate John Calvin's writing. 3:31 You are quoting Calvin but not quoting his argument addressing your issue with sin. This is taken from Chapter 16 which is addressing and refuting other points. In Chapter 18 of the same book, he addresses your argument of sin and determinism exactly. Why not debate those points?
Thank you for your comment! I will most certainly address that in the near future, and this is only a brief overview for those who may not know anything about Calvinism. I will do my best to accurately represent my Calvinist brothers and sisters and talk through their best arguments. Calvin and Piper would affirm everything I quoted but would simply maintain that mankind is culpable for sin. I'm simply saying I don't find this rational but yes, I will go over Calvin's best arguments. God bless!
"it's within his rights to reject Calvinism" ??? ... 'respectfully' if that is so, that in itself disproves Calvinism and EDD which is core to its framework...
@@unitedstates3068 Game, Match, Set.🎯 Calvinists are constantly speaking in casual conversation "as if" they have free will. If you pay attention, it seems to never fail. BUT, to violate a core belief like that always puzzles me. It is something I would never do. I would never say "accidentally" that I thought abortion was OK and be forced to correct myself as if I'd misspoken. Yet, on the issue of man's freedom to make actual choices that matter, many, if not most, Calvinists do this quite often.... and HATE it when you point this out. 🤷🏻♂
When forced, they will admit the irony of their belief and try to find refuge, as Calvin himself did, in 'mystery'. But there is no refuge to be found. Most seem to constantly struggle to maintain balance within the 'tension' they've become so fond of regarding their view of man's responsibility and God's sovereignty. It seems that Calvinists are impervious to cognitive dissonance.... It's their Super Power. Properly understood and defined.... there is no 'tension' God is free to do as he pleases and not required to control anything simply because he could if he wanted to. And, God has bestowed man with the freedom to choose to do 'well'...or not. As he instructed Cain in Gen.4. Doing 'well' is pleasing to God, but it is not "salvific". God is merciful and gracious to save whosoever will believe. Total Inability "from birth" is an Augustinian myth unsupported by any verse in scripture.
Scripture says the God made man in his own image. THAT matters. But Determinism ultimately teaches that man does NOT matter. However, man cannot live daily as if he does not matter. It is emotionally, mentally, and even physically destructive to one's own well-being, it's very unhealthy.
One man is said to have commented that, "Everything is so much easier... now that I've given up all hope."😎... But it didn't last.
@@unitedstates3068 Wow, that's bigger than the original strawman. That's the equivalent of "Can God create a rock so big that he cannot lift it?" If your understanding of Calvinism or determinism is that you have no control, then you truly don't understand the thing you are rejecting.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT OK, Let's play the over intentional simplification in reverse: In which areas is man more sovereign than God? By your definition above, God has intentionally given up sovereignty in some areas. Which areas are those?
Exactly!! Thanks you for this video
God bless!
thank you for sharing your heart and journey. I know this is one that is deeply personal. may the Lord use it to open the eyes of many to our amazing Father Who truly desires ALL to come to Him! And we can trust Him when He says that without any doubt!
Thank you for your comment and God bless!
Your rant on Calvinism blurs the difference between God's will of purpose and his will of command. Man is responsible to obey his commands but his will of purpose is secret.
See Deut. 29:29. I would also like to point out that your Anti-Calvinism makes man's will the determiner and the determined, which makes man's will both cause and effect. Also,
Paul tells us that man can only have true freedom by being a servant of Christ (1 Cor. 7:22).
Do you believe God decrees in His will of "purpose" who will not obey His will of "command," or is that something we determine before the foundation of the world and God simply decrees all other things that come to pass?
God according to His own purpose and grace has seen fit to spare a multitude of Adam's fallen race the just condemnation of their sin (2 Tim 1:9) while
leaving others lost to justice. God does not one person by showing mercy to another.
Both of my parents are caught in this web, very sad
Be a Christian! If you are Born Again, not possible to walk away from the faith.
I don't see how Arminianism is any less hopeless than Calvinism. We've got a weird schizophrenic God if He's 100 percent influenced by human choices. They're both hard deterministic universes.
I disagree. I'm not an Arminian but Arminians don't believe or teach that God is 100% influenced by human choices, only that He has determined to allow them and still brings about all of His purposes in spite of them. This is the true chess master, who doesn't need to control both sides of the chess board to ensure His victory. A true chess master wins because he is just that good at chess. Knowledge of how to defeat your opponent is not the same thing as moving the pieces for them. Knowledge and causation should not be conflated.
@@beberean612 A true chess master would win the game. Not lose most of the pieces. Look at deconstruction, shifting moral values and general immorality across time. If salvation is entirely based on human decisions we are so screwed it isn't even funny. God feeling some nebulous love for us is utterly meaningless if the end result is we still roast in Hell. Resistable Grace and limited atonement are both deeply nihilistic worldviews which lead to even small children think they'll never measure up to some arbitrary standard of good that keeps changing based on culture. If we say only good natured believers can be saved we're screwed. If we say only good natured people get saved we're equally screwed. If we say only believers get saved we've got God creating people who will definitely roast for having the misfortune of being born in the wrong place at the wrong time. If we say everyone gets saved we're just wasting our time. There's no hope in any view where if you mess up you get set on fire.
@@storba3860 Thank you for your comment but I do not follow your logic here as it is based on circular reasoning.
@@beberean612 We're being told to trust a plan and we're also told the plan can fail.
Calvinism and Arminianism are "twin" theological systems that both distort scripture. It's not either or as calvinist like to frame the debate.