Thank you for commenting my friend! I felt the need to form an analogy that is a direct parallel to Ephesians 1:4 for easy understanding. Especially for those who have only ever observed Ephesians 1:4 through a Calvinistic lens. God bless!
Once you see it, you can't unsee it! Corporate Election makes so much sense of all the Calvinist (tension) passages. There need be no tension with Scripture. God bless you my friend and thank you for commenting!
There are other good analogies out there but for me, there was always a part of those analogies that I could not personally relate to, and so I came up with an analogy that we can all relate to.
Thanks Bud, great little piece . Yes John gets pretty reved up over cooperate election. For the Calvinist it takes away that position of being so very special over the others, those reprobates who god chose to create and torture for his pleasure and glory Cooperate election means that god didn’t sit around in eternity just thinking about how wonderful and special the individual Calvinist is to him and why their so special. That wicked “ cooperate election “ is almost as “ dangerous “ as free will 😱😱😱
Exactly, and if Corporate Election is just Mumbo Jumbo, why create a strawman? I believe most Calvinist are unaware of corporate election. I never gave it any weight during my 18 years as a Calvinist. It makes so much sense, I think they are literally afraid of the information spreading around. I believe that's why he's demonizing it so. It's the only view that teaches we are "chosen," as in one of God's (chosen people), when we put our faith in Christ. This makes perfect sense of Paul saying in v3, "He blessed us, in Him, with every Spiritual blessing," and then gives being "chosen" as an example of a Spiritual blessing in v4. Calvinist will agree that every Spiritual blessing is ours when we have faith in Christ, when we are in union with Him, but then they will turn around and say we were chosen (spiritual blessing) before we had faith in Christ, before we were in union with Him. I believe this is a blatant contradiction.
Great point. If God determines everything, even our desire to love Him, what is the distinction with a real difference between Him spending eternity with us Glorifying Him, and spending eternity with Himself, Glorifying Himself?
Hi. I think that is a key deception with Calvinists. They are convinced that their doctrines somehow glorify God more than other, more orthodox or conventional, doctrines. Hence the obsession with their version of ‘sovereignty’, which is all about dictatorial control. They think that if anything happens that God didn’t decree, of if God allowed His creatures certain choices, then that does not glorify Him. I’ve never understood that logic. The Bible teaches about God’s kingship, obviously, but it is quite different.
Amen. It’s interesting that John Piper gets so emotional and agitated when preaching here. This does not make his teaching become true. I am always reminded that the apostle Paul said he himself was not a great speaker. Moses needs Aaron to speak for him. There is a danger in ‘powerful’, impressive speakers today who venture into showmanship. Paul always cited the Cross, being weak, appearing foolish at times.
Calvinisim, as it relates to salvation, is a dangerous heresy. Piper sounds like a made man, not trying to be funny either. I've been thinking the last few days, could Calvinisim have something to do with the great falling away. Calvinisim, meaning, all 5 points of the Tulip. Most reformed, Calvinist don't completely understand the tulip. God bless you 🙏
To be fair to our Calvinist brothers and sisters, I would say the great falling away is speaking more of an increase in lawlessness. But if Calvinism is true, God determines the lawlessness. However, Gnosticism was a form of theistic determinism in the first century. Augustine was a former Gnostic. And if you read the early church fathers, they spoke out against this sort of thinking by focusing on passages relating to the responsibility of man. Thank you for your comment and God bless! I would recommend you watch my video: Popular Calvinist vs Church History.
The great falling away is already occurred... Look around😅 we went from the pure doctrines of Jesus' teachings... To the church at Rome ruling for 1,260 years... And the so-called "Reformation" and the printing press spreading those babylonish heresies throughout the world. And yes they authored all the "futurist" doctrines that Christians believe in today... God said he would tell us what would happen before it happens... And what does Lucifer do? Claims none of it ever happened. it's still in the future. All of that faith building knowledge wasted because people are too lazy to study history and their Bible. It only takes 80 hrs to read the whole thing... And it's on your phone! And it will read it to you while you follow along! 🤣 This last 150 years are the days in which knowledge was "greatly increased"... But sure enough "my people "continue" to perish for the lack of knowledge"... 😮 And continue to believe ridiculous commentary from their beloved reformers!... You can't reform Lucifer's Church... He's way smarter than us at deception. Adam and Eve strolled with God in the garden............. That's right. Even they were deceived. Believe and obey... The only option
I've truly never understood how people can even stand to listen to Piper, I don't dislike him, nothing like that, everything he says is confused, contradictive and whiney, same as Paul Washer....
That's cool and all dude... But given the time it took me to figure out what the hell you were talking about when you say corporate election, normally would disqualify you as an advisor to me or my family.... I've read the Bible many times... Advised others many times over the years... Never once heard the Holy Ghost tell me to "tell them about corporate election"... The phrases "everyone who comes to Christ and endures to the end, will be saved. And God made this plan from the beginning" have always been sufficient... And have rarely caused any confusion at all😂
Acts 13:48 "All who were appointed for eternal life believed" It is only those who are appointed for eternal life who believe. It is only his sheep who hear his voice.
Context always kills a "proof text." You can't just pluck a verse out of its context and use it to support Calvinism... it begs the question... is that interpretation correct?
Hi, if you put that beautiful scripture back in its context it works wonderfully with the rest of the text. What you have done is taken this scripture out of its intended context and are treating it like taking a fish out of water and just throwing it on the ground to die . That’s all you’ve achieved here today.
@redditstories1323 Honestly, this is an overused and abused "proof text." One of the practices we need to have in our studies is observation of the characters involved or not involved. I'm this verse, who does the appointing, who is appointed, and when did that appointment happen? The Calvinist assumes God appointed, the elect was the appointee, and the appointing took place in eternity past. This doesn't have to be the case, though. It is possible that the one doing the appointing is either Paul, God, or the individuals themselves. How? Well, what does "appoint" mean? The Greek word means "to be set in order, to be aligned." Three options to the appointer: 1. God: God sets these people in order by sending Paul to them and the Spirit convicting. 2. Paul: preaching the Gospel and calling the men to repentance is absolutely a valid interpretation of "ordering them." In this case, Paul is "ordering/aligning" these people towards eternal life by the truth. The people: ordered themselves by hearing the words of Paul and humbling themselves. Do your own research to figure out the answers to the other questions. Appoint -> tasso ???? -> antitasso Look up the Word antitasso, the opposite/antonym of tasso/appoint In context, it means to oppose oneself. Is this relevant info? You decide! That's the blessing of freedom in Christ. Our thoughts on these matters are not restricted! God bless!
That was actually a very good analogy, and especially with the parentheses (citizens) (believers) makes it very easy to understand.
Thank you for commenting my friend! I felt the need to form an analogy that is a direct parallel to Ephesians 1:4 for easy understanding. Especially for those who have only ever observed Ephesians 1:4 through a Calvinistic lens. God bless!
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave a comment!
Absolutely perfect comparison 👌
Once you see it, you can't unsee it! Corporate Election makes so much sense of all the Calvinist (tension) passages. There need be no tension with Scripture. God bless you my friend and thank you for commenting!
@@beberean612 Absolutely 💯
God bless you and your ministry. I will share it wherever I can.
Blessings 🙌
@@seanvann1747 Thank you friend!
Good analogy.
There are other good analogies out there but for me, there was always a part of those analogies that I could not personally relate to, and so I came up with an analogy that we can all relate to.
Clear interpretation, thank you!
Thank you for your comment! God bless!
Thanks Bud, great little piece . Yes John gets pretty reved up over cooperate election.
For the Calvinist it takes away that position of being so very special over the others, those reprobates who god chose to create and torture for his pleasure and glory
Cooperate election means that god didn’t sit around in eternity just thinking about how wonderful and special the individual Calvinist is to him and why their so special.
That wicked “ cooperate election “ is almost as “ dangerous “ as free will 😱😱😱
Exactly, and if Corporate Election is just Mumbo Jumbo, why create a strawman? I believe most Calvinist are unaware of corporate election. I never gave it any weight during my 18 years as a Calvinist. It makes so much sense, I think they are literally afraid of the information spreading around. I believe that's why he's demonizing it so. It's the only view that teaches we are "chosen," as in one of God's (chosen people), when we put our faith in Christ. This makes perfect sense of Paul saying in v3, "He blessed us, in Him, with every Spiritual blessing," and then gives being "chosen" as an example of a Spiritual blessing in v4. Calvinist will agree that every Spiritual blessing is ours when we have faith in Christ, when we are in union with Him, but then they will turn around and say we were chosen (spiritual blessing) before we had faith in Christ, before we were in union with Him. I believe this is a blatant contradiction.
@@beberean612 I agree with you! Great stuff!!
@@matthewbrown9029 Thank you for commenting brother! God bless!
How is God glorified with the theology of Calvinism? He is not glorified whatsoever by choosing who will obey him.
Great point. If God determines everything, even our desire to love Him, what is the distinction with a real difference between Him spending eternity with us Glorifying Him, and spending eternity with Himself, Glorifying Himself?
Hi. I think that is a key deception with Calvinists. They are convinced that their doctrines somehow glorify God more than other, more orthodox or conventional, doctrines. Hence the obsession with their version of ‘sovereignty’, which is all about dictatorial control. They think that if anything happens that God didn’t decree, of if God allowed His creatures certain choices, then that does not glorify Him. I’ve never understood that logic. The Bible teaches about God’s kingship, obviously, but it is quite different.
Amen. It’s interesting that John Piper gets so emotional and agitated when preaching here. This does not make his teaching become true. I am always reminded that the apostle Paul said he himself was not a great speaker. Moses needs Aaron to speak for him. There is a danger in ‘powerful’, impressive speakers today who venture into showmanship. Paul always cited the Cross, being weak, appearing foolish at times.
Calvinisim, as it relates to salvation, is a dangerous heresy. Piper sounds like a made man, not trying to be funny either. I've been thinking the last few days, could Calvinisim have something to do with the great falling away. Calvinisim, meaning, all 5 points of the Tulip. Most reformed, Calvinist don't completely understand the tulip. God bless you 🙏
To be fair to our Calvinist brothers and sisters, I would say the great falling away is speaking more of an increase in lawlessness. But if Calvinism is true, God determines the lawlessness. However, Gnosticism was a form of theistic determinism in the first century. Augustine was a former Gnostic. And if you read the early church fathers, they spoke out against this sort of thinking by focusing on passages relating to the responsibility of man. Thank you for your comment and God bless! I would recommend you watch my video: Popular Calvinist vs Church History.
The great falling away is already occurred... Look around😅 we went from the pure doctrines of Jesus' teachings... To the church at Rome ruling for 1,260 years... And the so-called "Reformation" and the printing press spreading those babylonish heresies throughout the world. And yes they authored all the "futurist" doctrines that Christians believe in today... God said he would tell us what would happen before it happens... And what does Lucifer do? Claims none of it ever happened. it's still in the future. All of that faith building knowledge wasted because people are too lazy to study history and their Bible. It only takes 80 hrs to read the whole thing... And it's on your phone! And it will read it to you while you follow along! 🤣 This last 150 years are the days in which knowledge was "greatly increased"... But sure enough "my people "continue" to perish for the lack of knowledge"... 😮 And continue to believe ridiculous commentary from their beloved reformers!... You can't reform Lucifer's Church... He's way smarter than us at deception. Adam and Eve strolled with God in the garden.............
That's right. Even they were deceived. Believe and obey... The only option
I've truly never understood how people can even stand to listen to Piper, I don't dislike him, nothing like that, everything he says is confused, contradictive and whiney, same as Paul Washer....
@@shepherd7744 I thought it was just me 🤣🙏
@@shepherd7744 People can stand it because God determined them to! 😂😂
That's cool and all dude... But given the time it took me to figure out what the hell you were talking about when you say corporate election, normally would disqualify you as an advisor to me or my family.... I've read the Bible many times... Advised others many times over the years... Never once heard the Holy Ghost tell me to "tell them about corporate election"... The phrases "everyone who comes to Christ and endures to the end, will be saved. And God made this plan from the beginning" have always been sufficient... And have rarely caused any confusion at all😂
Thank you for your advice, and for watching! God bless you my friend!
Acts 13:48
"All who were appointed for eternal life believed"
It is only those who are appointed for eternal life who believe. It is only his sheep who hear his voice.
Context always kills a "proof text." You can't just pluck a verse out of its context and use it to support Calvinism... it begs the question... is that interpretation correct?
Hi, if you put that beautiful scripture back in its context it works wonderfully with the rest of the text.
What you have done is taken this scripture out of its intended context and are treating it like taking a fish out of water and just throwing it on the ground to die .
That’s all you’ve achieved here today.
@@brendaleehayter8464 Great point! Thank you for commenting and God bless!
@@beberean612 be encouraged mate 👍
@redditstories1323
Honestly, this is an overused and abused "proof text." One of the practices we need to have in our studies is observation of the characters involved or not involved. I'm this verse, who does the appointing, who is appointed, and when did that appointment happen?
The Calvinist assumes God appointed, the elect was the appointee, and the appointing took place in eternity past.
This doesn't have to be the case, though.
It is possible that the one doing the appointing is either Paul, God, or the individuals themselves. How? Well, what does "appoint" mean? The Greek word means "to be set in order, to be aligned."
Three options to the appointer:
1. God: God sets these people in order by sending Paul to them and the Spirit convicting.
2. Paul: preaching the Gospel and calling the men to repentance is absolutely a valid interpretation of "ordering them." In this case, Paul is "ordering/aligning" these people towards eternal life by the truth.
The people: ordered themselves by hearing the words of Paul and humbling themselves.
Do your own research to figure out the answers to the other questions.
Appoint -> tasso
???? -> antitasso
Look up the Word antitasso, the opposite/antonym of tasso/appoint
In context, it means to oppose oneself. Is this relevant info? You decide! That's the blessing of freedom in Christ. Our thoughts on these matters are not restricted!
God bless!