GOD OF WAR RAGNAROK Has Story Problems
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- God of War Ragnarok has some fundamental screenwriting problems. So let's go over ALL of them!
CHAPTERS
0:00:00 - Introduction
0:01:42 - Five Key Concepts & Original Trilogy Recap
0:03:43 - GoW 4 Recap
0:05:31 - Ragnarok's Opening Sequence
0:08:52 - Off Screen Shenanigans
0:11:02 - Narrative Imperative
0:15:25 - Brok & Sindri
0:16:41 - Single Cause and Effect Pathways
0:20:48 - Narrative Function
0:23:30 - Let's Talk About Freya
0:25:37 - The Norns & Changes of Heart
0:30:06 - This Is Eric Williams
0:31:30 - Artificial Conflicts & Knowledge Gaps
0:36:25 - Heimdall, That Lovable Scamp
0:40:00 - Thor, Thrud, and Conflict
0:43:02 - Written Into a Corner
0:46:01 - It's Tyr Time!
0:50:01 - The Family Dog
0:51:50 - Ragnarok 'N Roll
0:53:10 - Dialectical Order
0:57:37 - Not Built Towards but Arrived At
1:01:11 - Manipulation
1:06:08 - Sindri-alization
1:08:29 - Conclusion
#gowragnarok #critique #analysis #gow2018 #gow4 
Игры
All SBI/anti-DEI comments will be deleted
I’m mixed race, jack asses
It's baffling how many games are labelled "masterpiece" it feels like that term actually means "new game in very popular franchise"
Yeah, "masterpiece" is thrown around A LOT
People love hyperbole
I think that term is truly just a word that the younger generation uses as a "complex" word that they believe have a simple definition.
Really people should just throw around the word *Favorite*
it's more personal, very understandable, and not at all biased.
😂😂😂 a spartan in nors mythology in itself is proof that the game is a stretch but I still think the game did a good job
@@qobo5socikwa666 that made me realize. A modern day audience is actually interested in a 1,500 year old mythology.
But I guess that's cause of creative liberties.
I'm surprised that you didn't address Jormungandr. Considering he played a significant part in first game, his role in GoWR is rather small. His fight against Thor that was supposed to be intense in Ragnarok and the reason why he was sent back in time (which is a pretty big deal considering Mimir and Kratos dialogue about it) was super underwhelming. Hell, Thor's 2nd fight in Ragnarok was super dissapointing considering how awesome the first fight set pieces were.
Agree like imagine if Kratos has to rely on Joel’s help to find the Norns due to his familiarity with the lake of nine. That would make him more relevant and especially would make the Norns feel less tedious cause we are doing it with Jorm.
@@victory8928joels lmaoo
Riding Jormungandr breaking the frozen lake then through reality like Fenrir/Garmr and gnaw the roots of the world tree to get to the norns well underneath broooo why didn't we get a third game >_
@@jasonkvinlaug7043cause the devs didn’t want to spend 15 years making the arc that is the reason. They just got tired of the story not that I blame them. Unfortunately that meant they kinda had to rush a lot of it
@@victory8928 I still doubt a third game would make this better. Williams is on record saying almost nothing was cut from the game, that everything was how they envisioned. While that could be marketing fluff, it makes me think he just plain didn’t know how to steer the story ship
Finally someone acknowledges how the spear hitting Heimdall is stupid. I swear everyone just ignores the massive plot hole and pretends that it makes sense. I was so upset by his boss fight because Heimdall was the only character I actually liked. He felt like the biggest threat because of his foresight. For a while I thought it was going to be a huge obstacle, but its just an excuse to give Kratos a new weapon.
I really do wish they came up with a better way to beat him. I liked the fight itself, it's fun, but it makes zero sense considering how he's set up
@@thegammelier the boss fight by itself was fun, but I couldn’t get into it with all of the horrible story decisions that I was noticing, and then, when I finally got to the fight with the only character I actually liked they dropped the ball on the logic so bad that I completely lost my interest in the game.
@@thegammelier oh, and I wanted to thank you for making this video. I’m fairly new to writing so I couldn’t completely understand why I thought the story was bad, but you really helped me get all of my thoughts together.
They kinda just retconned what the hell he did in the game which felt kinda meh honestly. The fight itself is done amazingingly with how kratos tackles heimdall through the cutscenes and in the fight but as you all point out yeah why would the spear blast affect heimdall if it doesn’t daze or stun people.
DUDE FINALLY! Someone critiquing God of War Ragnarok. I was starting to feel like a crazy person when I saw everyone saying the story was amazing. Its a shame youre part 1 got a lot of views and this was has not popped off yet but you are incredibly intelligent and articulate and I would love to see you make more content like this. Consider making a patreon!
I know you said you dont like rewriting other people's work but that Freya rewrite is literally genius, both moving the Norn sections sooner and having the boss fight be during the hallucination. Holy man thats so smart
The algo do what the algo does, all I can control is the quality of my content.
Thanks for watching!
Well, you see, that's not... entirely true. Other people have critiqued the game, just not in an intelligent manner. The takes that some of the other people have are devoid of all logic (looking at you synthetic man) while here, you can tell the man actually sat down and thought about this, something I can't say for many other critics. That and most of the critiques (that I've seen anyway) focus more on gameplay while story is secondary.
I was so shocked when Atreus broke the mask and then it was sucked by the rift. All that build up for... nothing. I was expecting Odin getting a power-up, but it was dissapointing
Lmao 💀 they really wasted so much of our time to build up Atreus only to be nothing in the end
What was the point of Atreus being Loki?
How did Jormungandr go back in time?
How did fate change?
What was the point in Fenrir?
Why did Sutr change his mind about fighting because of Kratos blades?
Why did Skol and Hati amount to nothing other then a day night cycle mechanic?
Kratos has a dream where Faye says "there isnt much time".... time for what?
Faye also tells Kratos he has to bring her ashes... not Atreus! I thought the whole point of the first game was the Atreus wasnt ready to do it, but now if Faye only told Kratos to do it he could have left Atreus with Brok, Sindri or Freya and done it himself.
Theres so much more too, this game was a narrative disaster, i have no idea why or how it got the praise it did
"What was the point of Atreus being Loki?
How did Jormungandr go back in time?
How did fate change?
What was the point in Fenrir?
Why did Sutr change his mind about fighting because of Kratos blades?
Why did Skol and Hati amount to nothing other then a day night cycle mechanic?"
The answer is just "the first game said these things needed to happen, and we couldn't/didn't care to find an organic way for them to happen". Ragnarok is a mediocre story, and a terrible sequel. Atreus just accidentally creating Jormungandr, and that never meaning anything for anyone, is such a perfect encapsulation of this game's story.
gameplay decent visuals nice production value through the roof. That's the answer why it got praise. But i'm also really disappointed in the narrative
And who blew the horn in the first game offscreen? That is likely something they planned to answer when they were planning a trilogy and probably involved time travel, but they cut that out and it now remains without an answer. Also, is forseti really baldurs son like in mythology? If he is, then freya is kind of a hypocritte for not caring about his existence
@igotnopatience1717
I'd imagine the original idea 100% would have tike travel, seems a bit dumb that the only reason Jormungandr is in the present day in 2018 because he was sent through time.
I'm convinced Tyr also was supposed to be Kratos who was sent back in time and that depiction of his death was the original intended birth of Jormungandr. (Whethere he comes back from the Hellheim after that or it was his true death I don't know)
Unfortunately although Balrog gave us an incredible 2018 game, ultimately he chose not to involve himself in Ragnarok and he chose to make the sequel the finale and not make a trilogy. He even said he had plans for the trilogy and had little nuggets in 2018 that he planted for subsequent sequels.... why he chose not to carry on has me in disbelief. He said he didn't want to spend 10 more years ro finish the story, so instead he left it in the hands of someone less capable and destroyed the narrative. Can't blame the guy who took the helm, he had no say in it, he just had to direct a rushed game to its conclusion. Sad all round really.
@@PaulM68322 yeah, the thing we see coming out of jratos in the mural was either him becoming jormungandr or atreus taking his soul to carry it and ressurect him later, agree with all you said
This is very appreciated. It is much better having it all in one video.
You’re welcome!
It's funny how even a few throwaway lines would imrpove the game. Like if Odin said "I've been looking for you for years, but then all of a sudden, your cabin just appeared to my scrying--you must have had some powerful cloaking spell fail in this damnable winter." Stuff like that--quite a few problems I've seen defended with assumptions and guess work that, honestly, aren't bad guesses, but it's still a problem that the game doesn't actually explain things (and so I often see mutually-exclusive guesses too, with people not realizing that their "obvious" explanation is just one of many possibilities). Especially when characters also don't ASK, things that clearly beg questions but the characters just breeze on like it doesn't matter. No one is like "Freya, what stayed your hand?" It comes across as very artificial, like the characters know parts of the script and so they don't bother inquiring.
I’m okay with having to draw our own conclusions or for something to be left unsaid- but only when the script actually supports it or sets up the audience’s assumptions. GoW Ragnarok leaves *too* much unsaid or will explain it later during a walk and talk scene between set pieces
I keep telling my friends about how bad this story was and how it just broke my heart. Who and why Ingrid? What and why the mask? How did prophecy get avoided? The story is very incoherent and mind boggling. There is just so much bad in the story, like I can’t see how anyone could be happy with how any aspect of the story played out, this game needed one more sequel. The ending just happens, no build up, nothing feels earned as the story moves forward.
Now you can tell your friends to watch this video! Or get new friends!!
Yes the story is very bad and atreus sequences are the most boring shit ever but IGN will give it a 10 because it's God of War that's the definition of a Cash Grab but they are selling the game to childrens after all
Unfortunately God of War is a child's game now
It should have been a Trilogy like the classics, the Norse Saga story is just rushed.
It should have been God Of War 2018, God Of War: Fimbulwinter, and then finally God Of War: Ragnarok.
One of my fav videos. The knowledge gap part is so crucial. Great work!
I don't understand how you can unironically play the scene of Freya literally saying "I AM ANGRY!" as a way to soften your criticism. That scene is a complete joke from a writing perspective. Like, actual parody tier.
I know I'm late to the video - but thanks for making this! there's a lot of great writing advice in general in this video and I love it.
I've heard the south park advice of "go for but/therefore writing and avoid 'and then' writing" but I've never really seen a great example of it until this video. And, it makes perfect sense too. all the moments that sound so lifeless and meandering when you look at the overall plot, now I can clearly see what the problem is. thanks man.
Thanks for watching, quite a few of my other videos are stuffed full of writing advice as well
@@thegammelieri have to say thks as well currently doing my own writing project and it helped me process a lot more and streamline more of my points in a more meaningful manner so that it fits better
@@victory8928 hey, thanks! That was the whole point of this channel, to help people understand the nuances of writing and carry it forward into their own works
I just hate Atreus. He was kind of cute and novel in 2018. But in this title it was agonizing to choke down his segments. I found nothing particularly interesting about his development. I didnt "connect" with him in a way that seemingly many people did. His existence undermines the entire franchise imo. Kratos got put on the backburner for no good reason. Its not god of war anymore - it's something else. The current culture has a habit of sprinking pixie dust on everything and turning it into my little pony.
I was so excited for this game. I kept thinking about how we were going to kill Odin. I was so disappointed when it was the dwarf
You've done the best job in pointing out the issues in this story for sure
Mimir complaining about you choking out Heimdall was a beyond jarring cognitive dissidence. I refuse to believe the line was what was intended for that scene. The reason being is you fight wolvers in this mission. To which you rip a wolvers bottom jaw and the front of its chest off. Slow choking (no more pain only dreams now) Heimdall to death is the most tame kill in the whole game!
Just found your videos. Great content. Keep at it, my friend.
I found so many problems with this story and I’m not going to be as articulate as you, but some of them were:
The rewriting of the giants murals at the very beginning of the game. As soon as this happened I immediately knew the something was up with the writing. Instead of building off of what the players already knew about the lore, we instead get a “revelation” that the giants murals were not at all what we were told. This immediately killed all of the tension for me. Everything I was expecting was now obsolete, everything we learned about in the first game is now obsolete. It made me change the way I thought about the story, instead of a continuation of the story from the first game I thought about it as a separate story because obviously what we learned in the first game is not important to the conclusion.
Why did Odin kill Brock? If he knew he would need Atreus to open the rift why on earth would he kill one of his closest friends? The master manipulator and evil genius couldn’t foresee how Atreus might not trust Odin anymore after he murders one of his friends?!? It made absolutely no sense.
Why did Atreus go see jormungandr? I can’t think of a genuine reason other than to force a way into the story for Loki to become interested in iron wood. The world serpent didn’t have a real purpose in the story at all, but because it was said that he looked familiar in the first game we now have the iron wood level in gowr. It served no purpose at all in the end other than loki learning his shapeshifting which also didn’t matter, and the other thing that happened was Loki finding out Kratos is “supposed” to die. Sure it can be said that finding jormungandr in the first game was just a coincidence as well but at least there is a reason, they had to go over the lake of nine to get to the mountain.
The way kratos kills heimdall is not at all brutal enough to try and convey that kratos is returning to his old ways. And he had no choice but to kill heimdall, and this is even acknowledged by mimir when he says “I don’t think a warning is going to cut it” so why is he shocked and disgusted when kratos kills him? It makes absolutely no sense.
There are many more things but I’m not trying to write a novel here, but anyways I think your series on this game is absolutely incredible and I applaud and thank you for making it. It seems many people won’t acknowledge the flaws in the story or simply can’t see them.
As soon as Odin started talking I lost all immersion and hope for this game. What was the point of making him sound like a NYC mob boss? At least AC Valhalla had the sense to get the tone of the story right.
I guess they wanted to do something "different" but it's just so weird. I mean, while there are plenty of scenes showing god-like abilities, the actual story feels more like some strong people fighting each other. You know, more like wizards in Harry Potter fighting rather than cosmic entities.
I didn't mind the idea of Odin being anachronistic in his speech patterns. Odin is supposed to be smart beyond almost anyone, and manipulative as all get out. Being "different" in such a way makes sense, IMO.
Some of his dialogue is complete trash and it ruins the illusion, though
FINALLY someone who doesn't calls this a "revolutionary, groundbreaking, masterpiece that pushes the narrative in gaming forward", lol. I don't hate the game or anything like that, its just people nowadays call anything a masterpiece and the word is being overused.
I'm glad you broke this game down to a fundamental level and actually explain what went wrong & why many parts of the narrative just don't work.
I'm watching your Aloy breakdown and I'm loving it, keep up the great work my guy. You've earned a sub.
I have very, VERY strong beliefs when it comes to self-preservation and the ethics of taking a life. And I have a sneaking suspicion that you and I think differently about this topic. It is then telling that, despite that probable divide, you still nail everything wrong with the Heimdall "payoff." You cut straight to the heart of it, and leave it bare for all to see. Every other part of that section is just icing on the cake.
So could you explain yourself further ?
@@marcocortes3279 The point was not to elaborate, so as to avoid contention, but I've thought about it more and I think I have a way of phrasing it that will still keep the temperature low. It seems like -propaganda- common sense states that a civilized society is one without force, but I think the opposite is true, a civilized society is one where force is abundant and readily available. It would be nice if all the people in your nation share a religion that keeps them cohesive and respectful, but how do you account for psychopaths or outsiders? It needs to be understood that force will be met with force. I believe that any form of unprovoked physical aggression means your life is forfeit. If you break into someone's house, they should not have to divine your intent or check you for weapons, you're dead. If you punch someone and they pull out a gun? 100% justified. If I remember correctly, knives are considered lethal even at a range of up to 10 feet (and that is for professionally trained police officers, so civilians should have a larger window). If someone makes an actionable threat on the life of your child? It could not be more cut and dried.
To be fair to Gammelier, I'm assuming he's a bit of a lib (he does drink microbrews, after all). I feel pretty safe in that assessment since he seems more conciliatory when discussing Heimdall's death, while I simply couldn't stop laughing at how ham-fisted the narrative was. Isn't threatening children and small animals supposed to be the nadir of villainous actions? And we're supposed to be conflicted about the death of such a person? It was absolutely ridiculous.
Am glad you took the time to elaborate this much, i wanted to understand you more and now i do. About heimdall it is true that his death scene was supposed to be that dark moment for kratos but as i share your opinion on self defence i tought about what happened as kratos doing the good thing once again. Never in one scene between 2018 gow or ragnarok i saw old kratos coming out, he wasnt even there. new kratos was afraid of his past all the time but he already changed. old kratos was never going to come out and never did.
PD: What i mean is, kratos internal conflict seems to exist and be a big deal but in the end you realize how controled kratos was, that means, his conflict was just fear. He was never going to return to his old ways. Specially after stating in the last game how he was free of his past now.
Great video! You deserve more subscribers man, the quality of your videos are high
Thanks! Watch the HDZ one, I talk about Ezio ALOT
My biggest issue with Ragnarok is in the previous game they showed that kratos is going to die but in Ragnarok kratos never felt in any danger on the contrary norse gods felt so weak
This is my favorite video on the subject and is putting so clearly into words what I felt about this game but couldn't quite put together myself without the knowledge of storytelling you obviously possess, thank you!
20:12 people only said they hated it because most gow players think the franchise's core is to make a game that has cool visuals, satisfying gamepley and good actors.
What is the franchise's core?
@@frankkennedy6388 you think I'd have all the answers as a commenter?
@@doctormahrio5226 I just wanted to hear your opinion. That's all.
@@frankkennedy6388 I say that because I've not played any other God of war games other than the newer ones.
And it's not like the franchise was unknown to me. I just only ever found interest in it when gow 4 came out.
@@frankkennedy6388 but if you really want what I think it is. Then it's a game that is surrounded by narrative function. And creates the game around the story.
Pretty much, Story comes first, game comes second.
I stumbled across this video and I’m so happy I clicked it. It’s so great to see someone just be objective and clear about the shortcomings of a story. I hope you do a review of Baldur’s Gate in the future! Obviously it’s not a one path story like this one, but there are several key points that I believe could be worth analysing. Suffice to say you have a new subscriber 😄
This game reminds me of the last jedi for some reason. It’s all over the place and seems rushed
Just finished the game a week ago and for some reason the more I sit with the game, the more it bugs me.
I feel like the story they are trying to tell isnt bad, just executed poorly, but it can be fixed and add deeper meaning and context if they added a few new lines or even flip around some events. E.G. Freya's arc
I felt like she was done dirty in the game, easily forgives after setting her free. What i believe would add more meaning to her character and made her change so better if she made it clear when she meets Atreus again that she states "Do not hold hate for you Atreus. You wasn't the one that snapped his neck and took my one chance to set things right. You were just a kid. I fear you'll turn into next".
So you set up she does not hate Atreus, only Kratos and fears he'll turn into his father. Then you move it so when Artuse comes back from ironwood, he just goes back to the house instead of the fight with Freya. kratos and Atreus still fight and Atreus runs away. Keep playing as him and doing his story, but when we cut back to Kratos he is looking for Atreus in midgard. though everyone believes he run off to Odin like he implied, Kratos believes in a small hope he isn't. So worried for his son, he is looking all over for him. But because of that Freya shows up, trying to kill Kratos once again. Fight happens, Kratos breats her, can kill her but doesn't, Freya makes a comment how the kid isn't with him and he screams back that Odin took him. Freya for once in the game in the game is taken aback by it and comfused on how to feel. One hand she hates Kratos for what he did, but hates Odin way more, but even more what he did to her and her son. And is now scared of what he'll do to Atreus. Freya offers a rocky peace to get the kid nack, only if Kratos sets her free, but she makes ot very clear that shes doing it for the boy, not Krato, and even after they find him she still plans on killing Kratos. Then what you said about the freya should happen, that her seeing herself kill her som should be the part where she doesnt forgive, but accepts Kratos for did.
This could probably be better, but again the story told feels like it changes the characters for events to happen, instead of making the actions and feelings of the characters control the story. Add a few lines or move some events around and the story is better. I loved 2018, I wanted to love this too, but the story felt messy, like they tried to ram 2 games into one.
Only just finished it after not getting back to its since its release. Was very disappointed with the Ragnarok "war" at the end. I mean who did they lose in this war? Brok and Freyas annoying brother? Heavy losses indeed. I was honestly expecting massive consequences for all and i really expected Odin to have more up his sleeve than pretending to be Tyr.... Anyway great spectacle throughout but very safe and disappointing story. Im gonna get cracking on Valhalla and see what thats like when i get a chance. Nice vid bro.
I love your use of the Mrs. Doutbfire scene for the climax twist, that was hilariously great! Kudos to you 👏 🙌
Made me laugh!
@@thegammelier That was my response. Denial, denial...anger! That's why it was so hilarious 🤣 Thanks for the breakdown. Having completed the game I knew something was off and empty about this game but couldn't understand why. Thanks for breaking down the "why". Disappointing story, good gameplay. Empty.
Odin was underpowered and didnt feel as threatening and lethal as Zeus. Like he didn't show all of his true powers.
I feel like you missed a very simple relationship between the tree-barrier and the events in the story:
> Atreus maintains the barrier to keep Freya (And reavers) out.
> The emotional turmoil of Fenrir dying contributed to him turning into a bear, thus breaking the barrier.
> Odin finally finds them because the barrier was broken, paralleling how Baldur found them in the first game, forcing them to leave home.
The rest is spot-on. The story was just beat after beat after unconnected beat. It felt so anticlimactic. The "build-up" was spotty when it was there at all, so it all fell apart instead of coming together.
Especially your response to that "manipulation" line at 1:01:25? Family dog. I saw it coming. Still had to giggle.
Thank you for this great video!
Amen!
This was some next level story breakdown. Great vid, my man.
Dear Sony, based on Ragnarok and Spiderman 2 convoluted plots, cab you hire this person?
Hey that video was really good! Why does this guy have so few subscribers?
Good work, duder!
Brother, if I knew the answer to that, I’d be at 100k by now
Great analysis, and i love the Golden Path in the background :^)
I'm gonna frame it, someday
"Bow to your queen " is one of the cringiest lines in all of gaming
The Yoshi’s Island music was, indeed, the move 😎
Cool breakdown, I too am a OG GOW fan. I think overall, I was disappointed with GOWR. But, it makes me love 2018 and the rest of the series even more, which I think is the biggest win this game could give .
10:40 in the Hellheim part this two has a conversation about Odin
You talking about Atreus and Thrud talking about Odin being a bad person? Pretty sure I addressed this in the video but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to
Yes. GoWR does have story problems: The story.
Can someone explain to me what the deal was with the magic tree barrier in GOW2018? Who set that up? Was it Faye? Why wouldn't she tell Kratos about it? I know this is probably been answered before but I've never seen an answer personally
If I recall Faye did it but she didn’t tell Kratos cause it would mean telling him stuff that she wanted him to avoid like that she is a jotnar and cause she was afraid they would learn about their destined faith which she didn’t want either of them to go through. But it was also ragnaroked in ragnaroked since she returns as dreams there
Faye set it up and asked they be used for her cremation so that Atreus and Kratos would fulfill the giants' prophecy.
Of course, Ragnarok makes the prophecies irrelevant lol
Absolutely incredible video and script, I too have been subbed to jacob geller for years now, and I want you to know, this video is easily at the level of quality i hold some of his best video at, its that good, thank you for making good content. looking forward to seeing more content from you.
Thanks for watching and the amazing compliment that I can't hope to possibly live up to!
Can anyone also clue me in as to what made atreyus even consider that tyr might be alive and that'd be worthwhile to look for him? I'm in the middle of my second playthrough and I feel like this is a huge plot hole. He's presumed dead or heavily implied that he's dead in the last game so what would even give a traias the slightest suggestion that he was alive and in prisoned?
I think because of the hidden murals, right? He and Sindri had been searching them out for a while. I dunno, I could be mistaken. It’s really bad story structure to have had Sindri and Atreus searching for the murals before the story started in the first place. It’s very passive, even if having them do it beforehand sets up Kratos’ mistrust when he learns Atreus has been up to that
@@thegammelier maybe they implied it but it's definitely never explicitly stated. Very frustrating because that's one of the things that really starts the story off. I still just can't believe they messed it up so bad. People blame the fact that it was going to be three games and that they had to compress two games into one game. But they could have easily cut a lot of stuff and I chose not to. I don't know. Hopefully whatever game Corey barlog is working on now He won't just abandon (assuming it's a multi part story. ). He claimed to set up so much in 2018 and spoke about it so much. And then just dipped.
@@tbowne05
In the hidden prophecy of Skol and Hati he saw what he assumed to be Tyr leading the armies against Odin in Ragnarök.
So if he's gonna be around when Ragnarök happens that means he's alive.
@@fatos342 okay but if tyr is supposed to be dead why did he assume the figure he saw was tyr? From what I remember the figure shown was so generic looking (especially when you consider a turned out to be kratos) that it could have been anyone. Why did he think it was tyr if tyr was dead. This is like a whole chicken or the egg thing and I think is a major flaw in the story.
I thought he was just trying to find out more about the prophecy but Odin read it as trying to learn about Tyr’s location as he went to Tyr’s shrines to get the giant shrines. Only after Odin visits does Atreus think he is alive but that isn’t explained well in the game
Me, using the same iconic GOW track in all my GOW based videos: Yeah, spot on music choice tbh. Well played.
I thought the reason why they kept doing the trees with the hand prints was to keep Freya out, cause when she attacked them in the beginning and screamed and made everything start falling and crumbling towards them kratos said we’re almost to the stave and once they cross it it gets calm
Yeah, that’s the reason…but is it a good one? Good enough for the retread, good enough to start your new story with?
EDIT: Also, I forgot that Freya attacks Kratos within the tree line during her boss fight, so…she could just ignore the barrier all along?
Yeah, it’s called the protection stave. I don’t know how this Dingus didn’t realize that or at least didn’t feel it was necessary to mention. There are definitely problems with Ragnarok and its story, but he’s just being insufferable overdramatic douche.
@@thegammelierThey also explain that fimbulwinter breaks down magic but it's never stated that's the reason.
@@SourPatchPuss That would be you.
"How about this" *plays music from Yoshi's Island*. Well played sir.
All right, I'll watch this again. You convinced me.
But in all seriousness I am really confused by the accolades that this game got. I'm going through my second replay right now and it is nowhere near as good as the first. Their entire portions of the game that I wish I could skip. So many parts of the game that are simply tunnels you walk through with a few battles on each end that exist only to allow characters to deliver dialogue.
I don't think time will be as kind to this game as God of war 2018. I think it's inferior and almost every single aspect except maybe gameplay variety.
Oof, god speed, friend, I don’t have the strength for a second playthrough. Maybe in a few years and now knowing what it is ahead of time, I’ll be able to appreciate it on its own terms
Some of your examples of "unbroken cause and effect" can only be such if you don't consider the events of the previous game. An example is when freya attacks kratos. There's a reason she's attacking. I agree the original god of war was written better.
You miss my point: it’s not that there’s no reason, because obviously there is if you take the first game into account. It’s that there’s no reason in *this* story why they happen. Think of stories as self contained things, each one needs its own reasons for events to happen, otherwise it feels unmotivated.
Yes, but why NOW? Why at THIS moment?
You and the people who liked your comment don't really understand narrative.
@@thegammelierthat's such a strange point to make, I understand its important in context of creating a story using a strict framework. But I have no idea how that reasonable inference of freya's rage in the previous game, coupled with dialogue stating that there has been multiple attempts. Your 'but' and 'therefore' criticism seems to work in a linear framework expecting an event right before to lead to the next. I don't know about you but I feel fine triaging plot threads, and seeing where they lead. Ragnarok can create a reasonable but and therefore thread if you agree to separate parts of the plot, and agree there is nuance to why things are happening. Sure it is not ultra concrete as the 2018 more linear focused storyline, but then again I never wanted it to be, I wanted to things to have varied a effects I wanted to know the reasoning for actions in the game to be varied and complicated. But I feel like you discount them too quickly, without feeling a perfect causal link. I can understand that frustration, but the reason I still find myself liking the story is that I'm perceiving it differently each time revisit it. Gow 2018 I understood first time through and to be honest each time through however enjoyable it will always diminish for me. But for raganrok (excluding slower sequences like ironwood), I feel like I'm understanding the nuances of why the story would have played out this way. And honestly much of my disappointment with game wasn't with much of the first 80% it was literally ragnarok being too short too small a scale, and frankly lacking the grit, of the fights with garm and thor1. I honestly think if surtr, fenrir, jorm and the warring armies, had an darker atmosphere of war and death, I think people would be more satisfied with game because there is a greater payoff after experience a behemoth of a plot.
@@aryanullal2877The raggy battle IMO, had a pretty dark atmosphere and there was a good chunk of spectacle in it, I think it more so has to do with the camera than anything tbh as you have to pay attention to what’s happening around you compared to a fixed camera angle(luckily I’m a pro at the game so it’s easy for me).
After watching, appreciating, and taking notes from your 3-part video on this game, I am looking forward to watch this Supercut/DIRECTOR’S CUT LIMITED EDITION video.
I LOVED that first game. I got to play it when it came out on PC. This was after I’d seen VARIOUS playthroughs of the game. But the game still HIT. Harder than before, in some areas. And it plays so damn well. Even conquered all the Valkyrie queens 😤😤😤
I have only ever seen a playthrough of Ragnarok and I was def disappointed with it. A lot of the Kratos & Atreus stuff is still SOLID. But most of the game just feels… undercooked. Your breakdown of it made all the problems I had (but I didn’t know how exactly to voice em) so clear.
Also, your video gave me a LOT to think about for the story I am working on. I am a character designer so I am focusing on developing and designing characters for my portfolio. But ofc, unless you have a SOLID story behind the character, you won’t get much aside from “this looks cool.”
Especially appreciated the breakdown of story + consequence thread (doing “because of that/hence/but” instead of “and then”) and the dialectical order. AND the narrative imperative. DEF helped with figuring out the beginning, and a good starting point. I DEF needed a reminder of such things. I actually revisited my story to revise it, ensuring that I was building up to moments, instead of just arriving at them. So, thanks for helping me make my story better :)
That’s the whole point of this channel, to lay it all out so others can put it to practice. Thanks for the kind words and good luck!
The ONE GOOD thing about it is kratos apologizing in helheim
I thoroughly enjoyed playing the Ironwood section, and I believe it was a crucial and significant part of the game
I didn't know the sonic forces cycle would happen 5 years later
Love the Perfect Dark reference haha
S'one of the best
i think perhaps the worst offscreen moment is the implication that kratos fights RAGNAROK and stops him in an unspecified manner before reuniting with atreus....
You mean at the end of the main story when surtr tried to stab asgard?
@@rulo9647no, remember the giant at that point is called "ragnarok". He refers to a moment were they noticed "ragnarok" was going way to fast head on asgard, that meant the people from midgard were going to die if they didnt stop him for a moment (remember they wanted so save the people). Kratos and their team was meant to stop "ragnarok" when the game changes to atreus. Then, when you go back to kratos is implied that they indeed stoped the giant for a moment and saved the people.
We should make a game out of the Cause and Effect Pathway.
Let me try:
Ratchet and Clank are playing a game of chess
AND THEN
A TV show starring Clank starts playing
THEREFORE
They watch the show
BUT
Ratchet hates the show
THEREFORE
He snatches the remote and changes the channel
THEREFORE
They watch the news to see Ratchet's homeworld being invaded
THEREFORE
They go back to the Solana Galaxy.
Mario starts walking to the right
BUT
A goomba is in the way
THEREFORE
Mario jumps on the goomba
27:41 Actually I think this was a subtle way to show Odins manipulation of Atreus. Odin is one of the smartest god alive and Is all seeing with eyes and ears everywhere, however he pretends to not know Heimdall switched sides to make himself seem more humble and funny.
It's possible! I don't think that was the writer's intent, but I think they'd be more than happy to accept that as so
Thanks for watching, by the way
Yes that was the point 100 percent.
Very good video, I too found Ragnarok's story very dissapointing and you put it very well into words. I will have to defend the thor thrud conflict though. Mimir and Atreus talk about Thor and his family, and they come to the conclusion that Thor in his drunken rage beat up his son in the first game, so his wife gave him an ultimatum to stop drinking and be better. This was in a side quest, so missable, but I actually like when side content gives meaningful context to the overall narrative
Thanks for the response! Yes, I must have missed that, as I admittedly did not do all the side content, though I’d still much rather have had that relationship more fleshed out on screen between the two of them and not mentioned off handedly by a third character
That's going from "not mentioned" to "told but not shown." A step up but still not very good.
49:28 - is this song from Earthbound? Are you ALSO an Action Button fan?
I’ve been reading Tim Rogers since the Action Button Manifesto way back in the day- but I also owned the original Earthbound with the included strategy guide when it came out so I’ve been a fan from the beginning. I don’t even remember how I became aware of that game, since I was only 10 at the time but I got it that Christmas and loved it ever since.
I’m an old nerd in more ways than one
@@thegammelier Rock n' roll, dude. That OWNS. I appreciate your writing analysis here, as I am self-deprecating about my own writing/am always trying to improve. This video, the Grim Fandango vid, and your most recent vid really give some excellent insight into the medium, so thank you
@wizcatcheslightning don’t forget the HZD vid! Lotta good stuff in there too if you haven’t watched it yet
As much as I love making these videos, I hope to get back to writing myself one of these days. Don’t want to be the archetypical ‘those who can’t do, teach’
@@thegammelier it’s on my list, I’ve been watching you in my downtime. Well, you’re writing while making scripts for these vids, so don’t discount that you’re keeping that muscle flexed ;p
Hey man just finished watching your video and gotta say, it was incredible. Great Job and keep up the good work.
Now onto my problems with my story. I am nowhere as good as a story analytic like you but I gotta say a few things.
First, I think the story was too safe. All the bad guys die, the main characters live and the day is saved. I think many people overlook the problems in the story because it had a “good” ending. Now you compare Ragnarok with GOW 2018. I think it completed kratos and Atreus arcs. But the ending also had kratos killing Baulder in front of his Mom. Or look at the original trilogy where because of his vengeance, the entire Greek world was destroyed.
Second, this is my personal opinion, I think Kratos should not have a good ending where he lives happily ever after. Remember he destroyed the Greek world killing thousands of innocents. Just think how hard it would have hit if Kratos went back to his old ways killing everyone and starting Ragnarok to save his son, only for Atreus to hate him in the end. Or Atreus watching Kratos die and turning into a lying and manipulative being to destroy Odin’s family and starting Ragnarok. It would have hit much more harder that way then the way it is presented in this game.
Third, Freya’s arc makes no sense. She decided to kill Kratos, then decides to use him, and then work with him like him killing Baulder never happened. There was no resentment towards Kratos after that one cutscene where she forgives him for killing her son. Also coming to my first point, it was too safe. Again Kratos or Atreus having to kill Freya because she was blocking their path would have hit much more harder than say Brok’ s death.
Fourth, the character’s actions have no real consequences. They destroyed an entire relam, and how did it affect the other worlds? Nothing. Compare this with the original games and you will see what I am saying. Kratos killed the Gods and it destroyed the world and its magic along with it. Kratos again kills the Gods and nothing really happened. Kratos despite being driven by vengeance is a bad man. Sure the Greek Gods are not saints either but he does kill millions of innocents because of his actions.
Compare this with RDR2. Despite being a prequel to RDR1, it perfectly leaves where the original starts. And you look at Arthur’s story. He was a bad man. He killed a man for a few bucks and because of that he dies. But when he realise his end his near he decided to save John sacrificing himself and completing his arc. He changes in the end of the story, but that does not mean he doesn’t face his past consequences. The reason the ending hits so hard is because it’s more real than say him living happily ever after. He faces the consequences of his actions. He might be a good person in the end, but he cannot change his past which catches up with him. Or look at John where his vengeance allows pinkertons to know of his location, they use him, kill him which inturn has jack follow the same path as his father.
I think the game would have been much better of being 3 parts as originally intended. The ending just felt so rushed and the left a lot of things to just “and that just happened because we have to progress the story”.
I think points two and four would have been together. Sorry for stretching it out. I hope I am able to convey what’s in my mind.
Thanks for the kind words, and you make a lot of sense. I actually like the idea of Kratos truly going back to his old ways in order to save his son-- but the writers wanted happy endings, so that just wasn't in the cards.
Did you delete the older videos
I did, they cluttered up my dashboard and I figure this is the better version anyway
@@thegammelier Shame part 1 had some good comments that I found interesting.
@@thegammelier You should have kept them they had some comments that had some good info
@@tatepalmer1997You know, I didn't think of the comments when I deleted them. That's my bad
Thank you for this video. I thought I was losing my mind, especially because this game's narrative is so problematic that I simply can't understand how it's shortcomings are not reflected in its scoring. After much thought, I think this game's writing can be synthesized in the following sentence: probably good ideas, awful execution.
They purposefully didn’t delve deeper into making things make sense to keep space open for them to make another game
I really appreciate this, I felt really empty about the conclusion of ragnarok and I really couldn't articulate why was it so. There was an absurd amount of praise talking about how this was the perfect conclusion to the entirety of GOW. Came out of it feelin really disappointed with both the spectacle and the narrative. The worst thing was that all the build up with lore and the characters felt thrown aside for somthing messy and half baked. How ragnarok was the ultimate war between gods. The world serpent and thor having a battle so intense it ripped through space time. Kratos's death. The fucking mask. A whole bunch of loaded guns that never got to fire.
You can tell they didn’t fire them on purpose, subverting expectations, but normally when my expectation is subverted I’d hope it’s replaced with something better…
Amen!
2:50 can’t believe you forgot the most
Important aspect of these things, Kratos never wanted to be god of war and just wanted to not suffer from Greek tragedy PTSD from killing his family, then Zeus kills him for supporting mainly the Spartans even if the Spartans are the ones mainly worshipping him and because he is destined to kill him. That leads Kratos to killing Zeus and the gods that got in his way to Zeus.
Solid, well put together video! Deserves more views. GOW 4 definitely had the better story than Ragnarok even though Ragnarok got more hype in its third act
Great analyzing bro! That was a great video! I really appreciate your work.
This review is actually hilarious 💀😂
the story has a litney of pacing issues and some deritive combat skills too
I just beat the game a few days ago. Felt like I wasted 40hrs . Gameplay was fun but wtf was that story. I immediately replayed GOW1 & damn, what a difference .
After watching this video i now understand it all, i overhyped this game so much that it went over my head but the only good thing i say about this game is the side bosses, enemys,new mechanics, and kept some old mechanics/abilities from the previous game but still wished we could have explored asgard under odins nose like he wasnt all seeing and explore the whole realm with other new enemys and bosses just like a side realm before regnarok destroys it. Side note gna is a very hard tanky boss in give me god of war difficulty i died 50 times to her and i cryed of Joy after i defeated her.
The larger problem with the story, beyond the narrative concerns brought up here, is that the first game was focused on the development of Kratos and Atreus, whereas this game focuses on the action and goings-on aroudn Ragnarok. Atreus and Kratos develop in more unnatural ways because theyre servicing the action of the story.
It's what superhero movies do, which is why the heroes feel so similar other than their general aesthetic differences in the MCU. Instead of letting the characters develop in natural and believable ways, they develop in the ways the plot directs them.
Ask yourself: would the Kratos of 2018, full of regret for his past life as a God, really care if anyone worshipped him? And yet the end of Ragnarok has him proud to be a revered Norse legend.
It was doomed from the start, the story the writers wanted to tell had nothing to do with Kratod and everything to do with "look at these awesome action set pieces!"
I’d argue it’s more they had a story they wanted to tell in mind but that they didn’t know how to do the leg work to get the characters to those end points in meaningful ways. Like I said towards the end of the video, they don’t build to their conclusions, they just arrive there.
I don’t think it’s, ‘look at these cool set pieces’ because…what set pieces? Especially compared to how epic 2018’s conclusion was, and that’s just Baldur. Nothing in Ragnarok holds a candle to the dragon boss battle, Baldur at the beginning or Baldur at the end of 2018. They’re just plain cooler fights with more spectacular visuals, while also having escalating action contained within those fights. The battles in Ragnarok are stale in comparison, even if they’re ‘cool’ on the surface, they don’t really escalate or morph into new stages according to the needs of the characters. They’re flat. The only one that really compares is Thor’s first fight- and that’s it
@@thegammelier Ragnarok is just a giant visual spectacle...
I agree they didn't do the leg work for their conclusion. They started the story knowing they wanted it to end with a big, epic battle, and everything else was a contrivance to get to that point.
The spectacle of the bosses, etc. and the story probably don't come from the same place (art direction vs. narrative). I agree the visual spectacle is lesser in Ragnarok, but they clearly intended Asgard on fire to land more than it did from a narrative perspective.
Ingrid should've returned to Atreus and been used to kill Odin. Drop Frer from the story.
P.S. Kratos did nothing wrong in this game, he was just surrounded by stupid people.
This is such a great video. I just washed it a third time simply to enjoy the information on writing that you give.
Are you ever going to do a video on God of war 2018 or uncharted 4 (which you seem to think is the best game ever)?
I'm mustering up the courage to one day make that U4 video. I wanna do it justice and hit AAAAAAAAALL the talking points about why I think it's great. It'll probably be another 60 minute long video, and those sure take a long time to make.
@@thegammelier well I look forward to when it comes out. I'll definitely have to play it before watching the video though.
Really liked this vid, you nailed down most of the reasons I harbor so much disappointment for the game, but there's still something I don't fully understand fundamentally. Which is the single Cause and Effect point you brought up. At the surface level, I do get that 1 certain action begets 1 certain result, and that it feels smoother for a story to weave through a path with the formula of "Certain thing happened, therefore we must do this, but something came up to hinder us, so now we have to deal with this in this specific manner." However, I don't see a whole lot of differences in the formula for the events of the openings of both games. With the way you have outlined the summary of both games' openings, it seems that at the surface level, it feels as though GOW 2018 pulls the single cause-and-effect method better than Ragnarok. But even then, there is still uncertainty for me on the various plot points you brought into attention and whether they should be concretely classified as "and then" or "but then" scenes. If it's possible I'd like to discuss why 2018 harbors the single cause and effect style with more grace than Ragnarok, because I fully don't get it yet.
It’s a tough one to break down further than I already have and you elaborated on (one direct action leads to one direct outcome that redirects protag’s action).
It’s a matter of story telling in the moment, I guess. Let’s take Freya’s attack at the beginning: why does she attack? Because she hates Kratos, yes, but also because they’re beyond the protection staves. Why are they beyond them? Because they had to hunt for deer. Why beyond the staves? Because food is scare within the staves. Why’s food scare? Because it’s Fimbulwinter.
None of those answers are 1) actually within the text of the game, they have to be explained later and 2) caused by direct actions from the protags. Are they logical, justified actions? Sure, but they’re not character motivated and that’s my issue. Same with Odin and Thor.
You can argue (as many have in my comments) that they arrive specifically because Atreus knocks down a tree in bear form and that’s a nice logical answer, but it’s not a character motivated one. There’s no real reason for them to visit that’s a direct result of their previous actions, it just happens because that’s how the writers chose to start the plot. Baldur shows up specifically because the trees are chopped down, revealing Kratos’ presence to the Norse gods. Odin and Thor just decide how’s the time to show up, apropo of nothing, really, beyond ‘Atreus is searching for Tyr,’ which…sure, man. That’s *a* reason.
In GoW2018, Kratos chopping down a tree is, of course, not explained right away since we don’t know why he’s doing it, why the tree has a handprint, etc. That’s all before the game begins too BUT once Kratos chops down the tree, everything in the opening sequence after that are direct causes and effects.
I probably haven’t cleared it up much but I hope that helps. Thanks for watching.
@@thegammelier You certainly provided a fair bit more clarity here with your reply so I do thank you for that. I was gonna bring up the fact that it isn't brought up immediately why Kratos chops down the tree in the opening of 2018, but you broke down the reason why it functions there because that 1 thing leads to the whole chain of events for at least the entire opening.
But it could be argued that players can intuitively infer that Freya is pissed at Kratos for Killing her son at the end of GOW 2018, and since most people played or at least know of the ending of GOW 2018, they can easily surmise that our lads are being attacked by Freya because she got the chance to do so.
I was gonna bring the troll up and how he shows up randomly like Freya, but he had a reason to take away the deer cuz im sure he hungree and all, so that direct conflict of interest in that deer is what permitted the troll bossfight which is established in the moment in the game. With Freya you need prior knowledge of the last game, and that is what makes it feel more disjointed I guess.
One other thing I wanted to ask is that whether it's ideal for a story to go through one long unbroken chain of events, because one concern I have is that stories might become too linear if there's only 1 storyline happening at one time. A few of my favorite media (ASOIAF, MGS, Snatch) incorporate many moving pieces at once, irrespective of the major storyline. Does the entire story of any piece of literature need to be written in the direct cause and effect method? or can you start up other stuff as the story gets longer and wider?
I'm sorry that I'm writing a bunch of stuff; it's just that literature and writing is a big passion of mine and all, and I want to improve my writing as time goes on. I really appreciate you taking the time to write out your replies
Here’s a secret: writing can be anything you want it to be, so long as it’s good. The examples you gave were all purposefully defiant of norms when they made those works. One of my favorite games is Planescape: Torment and that story would change on a dime at any moment!
But here’s a second secret: writers who successfully discard norms like that? 9 times out of 10 still know the fundamentals of writing like the back of their hand. You need to know the rules before you can break them!
So no, a work doesn’t have to be one long, unbroken chain of cause and effects, though I’d argue the early novels of ASOIAF definitely had chains going on in their individual chapters, which then coalesced at the end. Plus, even a story told in parts makes sure those parts are variations on a theme (like Snatch). Something needs to tie it all together, even if it isn’t an unbroken chain of cause and effects.
@@thegammelier Thanks for the elaboration and the tips. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to reply to me. I'll need to study up on writing more from now on, and I'll check out that Planescape game that you mentioned. Have a good one dude!
@@LikeADamnFIDDLE You can have B plots and C plots, but those still need to be chains of cause and effect. Like, I dunno, two guys have a beef, and so you have a story showing both of them going through the motions of dealing with it and preparing for a fight, and then the conclusion is them fighting. This would allow 2 largely separate stories, with separate characters, for most of the run time, but it would still start and end with united purpose and everything flows. You can also have side-plots that branch off from the main chain that may not directly influence the plot itself but can affect the characters and resound themes, but these too need to clearly start from something and then logically flow until they end.
I couldn’t finish it.
The Game or the video?
Zing!
the game but nice one. @@gameover9390
If it's the fourth god of war game, then it's god of four
Fantastic Video :) you have my respect fellow content creator
Thanks! Good luck on the path
Freya should have been more vile in her quest for vengance it’s obvious she didn’t care about collateral since she manipulated raiders to there deaths by saying kratos caused fimbulwinter
If they hide behind the stave she could have cursed the surrounding area making animals and any who live there suffer to draw Atreus out
Kratos may not want to kill her but those actions would give him no choice
Game should have started as Atreus searching for the portals/prophecies/Tyr, Freya intercepts him to bait out Kratos, Atreus tells her about the prophecy before Kratos arrives, cue whatever stuff deemed necessary/cool
Would have been way more motivated/ way better cause effect pathway
Leaving the staves to hunt deer is boring/unmotivated
Yeah, she should have been more vile. Felt like they did her dirty. Not forgiven him so easily, be more crude with trying to kill him. Though I like to think she only wants to kill Kratos not Atreus as he was just following his dad. So she didn't go hardcore in fear of killing him, but it would have been awesome to have her bait out Kratos with a lie that he believes, but gets him almost killed for.
How in the everloving fuck do you not have way more subscribers? All of your videos, or at least the ones that I've seen, are very well edited and scripted. This channel, as long as it continuously uploads and continues with this quality, is a ticking time bomb to be catapulted into the youtube algorithm. 687 subs as I'm writing this, but it shouldn't be for long.
I’m stuck in small YT purgatory but I’ll keep pluggin’ away
@@thegammelierkeep it up man, very high quality content
@@thegammelieraye man I would LOVE to see you do this breakdown for spiderman
@@javongarnett41 I might someday. I didn’t like Spider Man, I found the story very boring, so I’ve never beaten it. Fertile ground for a video essay
@@thegammelier definitely is I loved the breakdown of this and spiderman needs it
Spoilers on the corkboard!
If you know, you know.
Haha, you’re the first to mention it!
Huge balls to drop this before a TLOU 2 video. Many of the problems people have with that story are in here. Cant wait to hear you tackle it...
Want an idea of where I’ll go? Check out my previous video on Abby’s side of the story. Spoilers: I really like the game, warts and all
@@thegammelierOdd that you like a game pretty much constructed of plot holes.
@@billjacobs521 My feelings about plot holes are perfectly summed up by the below. Does TLoU2 have a lot of warts? Hell yeah it does, but it lands a lot more than it misses for me.
ruclips.net/video/j9HivyjAKlc/видео.htmlsi=9Jx3hdpGCrDFEb1f
@@billjacobs521 most of the things about TLOU2's story that you consider "plot holes", aren't even plot holes
@@kostasspirou1010 Then you must not know that characters acting entirely out of character for the sake of the plot is also a plot hole.
This game is the disappointment of a lifetime for me
Ditto
Game is still siq just could’ve been better. Something like Rise of Skywalker is infinitely more disappointing because it just completely undoes everything that was good in the original trilogy like Vader’s sacrifice. Ragnorok didn’t make 2018 GOW any worse, if anything it made it better
@@dws0828
It made 2018 infinitily worse and rendered it useless.
@@fatos342 Yeah, that's the sad part. GOW 2018 was praised for how much it sets up plot points for Ragnorok...but Ragnarok didn't deliver on or even address some of those things. We didn't even find out who blew the horn. :'( So in retrospect, some of these plot points weren't even planned.
I mean the “game” was great and fun. Just the story was just mid
Thank you for bringing to light how aimless, amateur and sloppy this story is. I seethe at how highly praised it is.
It was an amazing game but the story was my only problem with it, everything else is amazing
excellent analysis vid! I agree with you on pretty much everything here, except one thing: heimdall is the bestest boy in the game for being such an entertaining asshole and I was very sad when he died. RIP heimy.
I loved to hate Heimdall. He was great and I wish he died a better death
@@thegammelier absolutely agree, was very sad about how underwhelming and contradictory his death was
Could Fenrir dying be the reason for the narrative imperative?
It is, since it triggers Atreus getting emotional and becoming a bear, but my point is more, "is that good enough/good screenwriting?" Atreus doesn't drive any of the action until he asks Kratos to follow him after Odin and Thor leave-- that's a long time for one half of your protagonists to not make any active choices, y'know?
There's a difference between "this question has a logical answer" and "is this the best choice the writers could have made to tell the story"
@@thegammelier Ahh I see. That makes sense. I gotta say I really enjoyed your video man, basically summed up a lot of my gripes with the game and it definitely felt like a downgrade from 2018s story. Also merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to you, too, thanks!
I've watched these 3 videos before and they were amazing. But I must say; that this supercut was released with poor timing. It would be dope if you released it when Ragnarok gets its PC Port.
I’m much too impatient to wait. I literally thought of making this yesterday and then…spent…like…twelve hours doing so…
Thanks for all the rewatches! I really appreciate it
Genuinely curious. Why would it have been better if he published this along with the PC release of Ragnarok?
@@Takejiro24 Algorithm
@@nuhashtarafdar1592 Ah. Much appreciated 👍
15:23 tlou2_death_sound.mp3
Good ears!
@@thegammelier I played that game on grounded (using a controller, ofc, and I'm pretty inexperienced with that). I'm well aware of that sound lol
Ingred was freyrs soul
I enjoyed the gameplay, but hardly remember the story. This game is far from masterpiece.
I have same feeling towards Ragnarok i was just disappointed. The actual Ragnarok battle was shorter than Ironwood like how ?
-Freya doesn't change her mind simply because Kratos protects her from a raging Atreus bear. In the first Atreus mission he had tried to talk to her, to convince her to join them against Odin. When he told her that he was a giant and that Tyr was alive, she believed it was all a lie.
But right now, after her duel with Kratos, she sees Atreus shapeshift ("it's, uh, giant magic") and she begins to reconsider her intents and actions, realizing that if what Atreus told her is true, then maybe she has an actual chance to escape Odin's control.
-After Atreus "meets" Heimdall, Odin tells him that the guardian god sometimes forgets to think things through in the heat of the moment, therefore he doesn't really compensate for the spears detonating on him. However, he starts to act differently in the fight, first knocking the spears away instead of grabbing them, then evading them altogether making the player detonate the spears when he steps on them... but even then Heimdall is missing brains.
Also, he is veeeery arrogant, so I would argue that it is in character for him to not see that coming.
I agree with your logic when it comes to Freya and that’s an angle I hadn’t considered before…but I also think the script doesn’t do a good enough job connecting those dots if that’s the case.
Freya’s so overwhelmingly consumed with rage that for her to logic herself out of it in the moment doesn’t feel right. I maintain she needed to be broken down further, hit rock bottom, for her to finally be able to see the light.
Thanks for watching!
The comics (which are shit, by the way, don't bother) establish that a tribe of berserkers can shapeshift (into bears, specifically) through non-giant magic. So that isn't even concrete answer.
Also, they kind of hint heimdall cant read kratos' mind. He repeatedly complains thorought the fight about how kratos can fight thinking of nothing. It seems they want to imply kratos cleared his mind and thought on instinct insteade of thinking, preventing heimdall from foreseeing his moves
@@igotnopatience1717 Then he wouldn't even need the spear.
@@billjacobs521 good point. But even if he cant read his mind, he is still extremely fast and has great reflexes, só having the spear would still improve kratos odds
I do not see how Odin is not the victim in this story.
Homestly, my standards were way up there bcose of gow2018... But this game was a let down.
AND THE RUNIC ATTACKS WERE TRASH!!!
13:28 that whole point you were trying to make bothered ME lol. Clearly you got the characters mixed up, first off. This whole thing happens PRIOR to the last tree getting chopped off in 2018 [duh]. So idk what point you were trying to make or why it bothered you so much. The fact you even kept that part in the video and just tried to play it off as “pretend this is atreus” baffles me.
I feel like the game wasn’t bad, just… underwhelming. Gow 2018 y def one of my favourites of all time. I love ragnarok but it isn’t nearly as good. I would give gow 2018 a 94 and gow ragnarok a 83