Reloading Tips and tricks - Small Base Dies vs Standard
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2023
- In this video we show the differences in small base vs standard dies in 308 Win. Effort and case sizing dimensions are compared.
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These types of details can elude a novice reloader, despite manufacturer catalog content. Nice video!
Glad you like it. I am not much for the directions if I can help it but in some cases (pun intended) they can keep us out of trouble.
Back when I had my M1 Garand, I needed to use small base dies to get reliable feeding of my reloads, no matter the source of the cases, and also to prevent out of battery slam-fires from inadequately sized cases.
Never needed a small base but good to know they are out there if you need them 👍👍
I appreciate your channel; I have learned a great deal from it. I wish for only one additional thing though. That is- if your channel sponsor at Midway USA would acknowledge Canadian customers! Brownell's and many others will do it. They have no excuses.
GREAT VID. OMG...@ .42 in video. I can see you have never ran a drill bit thru yourself. WOW😱
Buddy bought a giant sack of lake city brass. I sized it in my normal die and loaded it up and it is ridiculously tight chambering. Now i have a small base die on the way to try to get this stuff to chamber.
Thanks for making this video. Really helps novice reloaders like me.
I had a bunch of gunnery range LC7.62 brass given to me. Apparently it was all fired in an M134 minigun because it was all MASSIVELY oversized. A standard Lee sizer would not size enough for it to chamber in my M118LR chamber.
I ended up having to anneal it AND use the redding small base body die-- THEN use the Lee Collet die to get the brass to fit my chamber. Lots of work for "free" brass...
Size it first with your normal die. (take the neck expander out of it.) then you size it with your small base die. Prevents stuck cases.
I'm so glad I learned about this before getting dies. Thanks for the video! My dad has a reloading setup with standard 223 dies, and they work in a 5.56 Chamber but not in 223 Wylde. I got a stuck case every shot. Gonna give these a try in my new press setup and see if I can get reliable feeding.
Exactly what I needed to know.
To avoid getting a case stuck, the brass can be sized with a standard die first before sizing with the short. I haven’t done this with my rifle loads, but I do it with pistol loads if I want a smaller diameter.
This process also works for 5.7x28. If you size with the standard die and then the small base die, you’re less likely to strip off the coating that helps with extraction as well.
Just did a batch of standard sized casings. Started to resize with small base (308 cal) and oh no got a case stuck. I was in a hurry and didn't get enough lube on the casing. MY BAD!
Thank you a lot for this explanation, helped me a lot to understand the difference!
Nice take on small base, i use the same small base die with no decap rod for 300 blk and 223 right out of the tumbler, for obvious reasons but also to eliminate the horrific stuck case in the standard die, any buldged will be reversed in the small base die or if it gets stuck there, i can tap it out
My AR's say 'no way to range pick-up 5.56 brass' without small base dies...
It’s so weird that everyone’s experience is different with this. I’ve heard all over of issues and if an issue can be had, I usually have it. 3 VERY different ars and a mini 14 all feed Lee full length resized cases just fine. I wonder if different manufacturers have varying specs for what they consider full length vs small base
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it
Good video.
Good video & info... thanks. 👍🏼
#1
Wondering if you could do a video on the RCBS X-Base sizing die. Set up and what the benefit is. Thank you.
I have small base and standard for .223 Remington. I rarely use the small base.
Thanks. I wonder if they can affect group size 🤔
Can you post a video about the whole process together in preping and filling the case because I still don't get the whole process all together and I'm trying to make sure I understand everything before I go ahead and buy a full reloading set
I had to buy a 223 SB die after some issues with "range brass" not chambering in my Ruger. After getting the offending cases sorted and 1 stuck case, I had an idea. Would it be a good idea to use a Dillon tool head to size with the regular die in station 1 and the SB die in station 4 of my Dillon 750 to prevent stuck cases? After cleaning up the well lubricated cases, I would then send the cases back through to get primed, get powder, and seat the bullet. These are my range fun rounds so reliability is more important to me than absolute precision.
Do they make a similar product for pistol cases? It sounds like exactly what I need for 9mm !
For your 308 rifle, after using the small base die; for the same brass, fired in your rifle, do you/can you go back to standard base dies for future reloads?
I haven't got there yet. I am just starting to fight my way through the pile of cases. I am optimistic that the std dies should work after a firing in the new chamber. Only time will tell and it may be interesting to see if there is any accuracy loss between the 2 even after the fact.
👍
Kiwi natural will reduce sizing effort.
It also happens to be one of the best release agents for glass bedding firearms as well as many other products involving powerful adhesives.
So basically use a SB die if i use random spent brass. But use a FL die if i buy new fresh box of ammo from a store or new unfired brass?
This is a topic that frustrates me because no one in the reloading community answers it well, and the common answer given by the reloading community usually leaves new reloaders confused or sent in the wrong direction. The short answer is that SB dies will produce resized cases that are factory spec and guaranteed to chamber, so go with SB dies....or if you want custom dies, contact a die company and send them some of your fired brass so they can make you a custom die set.
The long answer:
Whether you would be best served by purchasing SB dies or FL dies all depends on how your chamber is cut.
If it's a tight chamber, you want SB dies. Attempting to use FL dies to reload for a rifle with a tight chamber can actually bulge the brass during resizing and cause the case's diameter to increase as the brass conforms to the FL die...since the die is cut larger than your chamber, this produces a FL resized case that will no longer fit in your rifle. It's very common for new reloaders to buy FL dies since FL dies are THE recommended item (especially to folks who own bolt action rifles), and it's very common for new reloaders to have to immediately buy SB dies because the FL dies didn't work. That was my experience when I first started loading rifle cartridges.
If your rifle has a sloppy chamber, you MIGHT be able to use a FL die if the die sizes the brass in all the critical dimensions to make it fit your chamber...it won't be a perfect match like you'd get with custom dies, but it'll be a better fit than brass sized with SB dies. It's said that using FL dies increases brass life because it works the brass less, but this is only a benefit you realize if you're not annealing; annealing is the most effective way to extend brass life. Aside from that, the primary benefit to FL dies is that they do produce brass that fits your sloppy chambers better, and this can lead to better accuracy. FL dies are a die company's stab-in-the-dark attempt at making custom/semi-custom dies for rifles with loose chamber tolerances; it's a complete stab in the dark since the die company is attempting to make these custom/semi-custom dies for rifle chambers that they haven't measured. But being able to walk into a store and pick up an FL die and not have to wait for a custom ordered die for large chambers is probably beneficial to some folks. The thing to keep in mind though is that if you have multiple rifles that you're loading for, your chances of successfully reloading for all of them with a FL die decreases with each additional rifle being tossed into the mix. Technically, if you're using a FL die to load for multiple rifles, you're supposed to keep the brass for each rifle segregated for use in only the rifle the brass was fired from. You may even only have two rifles, but it's very likely that the ammo loaded for one rifle won't work in the other. If you get the brass mixed up, you'll probably have to bring in an SB die to get the brass into a usable shape.
I think it makes the most sense to forget FL dies and instead buy SB dies and then order custom dies for the rifles you want custom sets for.
Very helpful!
Thank you.
I think I’m going to get some Dykem and paint some 308 cases to figure out where it’s tight, I have this issue!
LC brass, FL rcbs dies, won’t chamber in a converted Schmidt-Rubin (GP11) in 308
Hey, how many firings should it take for 6.5 cm. brass to fully fit chamber ??? I shot once an hardly elongated. Second firing still same . Why ?????? Rem. 700
Starline brass too
@@Joe-hu7di shoulder
Only have a small base die for 223 so I didn’t have to buy one later
I spent some time on the phone with RCBS at one point and they explained their Full Length and Small Base dies to me this way:
FL dies are for rifles with oversized chambers and are intended to produce ammo that is closer to custom ammo that is outside of factory spec (larger dimensions than factory ammo); SB dies are for chambers cut to a tighter tolerance and SB dies will produce factory spec ammo that works in every rifle.
I found this to be true; the use of RCBS standard FL dies (which I bought on recommendation of the entire reloading community) failed to produce brass that would pass gaging in an RCBS case gage. That ammo failed to chamber in my Remington 700. Attempting to use the FL dies years down the road produced ammo that also failed to chamber in my Bergara as well (yes, the brass was fired from that specific rifle). My Lee dies and the RCBS SB dies worked great though, and I am sorry I wasted time, money, effort, frustration with FL dies.
I don't understand why FL dies are sold as the standard when they DO NOT produce factory spec ammo and instead produce custom ammo for oversized chambers. SB dies produce factory spec ammo and they should be the standard. This would remove so much of the frustration new reloaders experience in purchasing dies.
Lee has it figured out. Unlike RCBS and others, Lee doesn't bother with making FL and SB...Lee makes dies to a single spec that produces sized brass that pass a case gage and that chamber easily in every rifle. Lee and SB dies by other manufacturers should be what is recommended to new reloaders.
Addressing the concerns of stuck cases in SB dies, I’ve never experienced a stuck case in my SB dies. I imagine if you're getting stuck cases in a SB die, it's either because you're not lubing the case body or your lube is poor quality. I use Hornady Unique (the stuff that comes in the little tub) and lube the full case body. I also use a Forster Co-Ax (same as in this video) with my SB dies and never have to exert as much force as what's shown in the video no matter the caliber, even with mixed source brass (maybe there was some exaggeration in the video for theatrical effect??).
This is mind blowing stuff.🤯
Really, its quite infuriating!
To your point, why wouldn’t the die size the WHOLE damn side? This must be why my 223/556 reloads are so damn inconsistent! (range brass bought in BULK).
My Bolt action reloads with non-range brass are just fine.
I get the fact that it makes sizing easier and hardens the brass less but if thats the case (pun intended) maybe we need to make custom annealers for that.
^++++++++++++++
Ok one more comment, the nerve to call it FULL LENGTH SIZING 🤬😡🤬
Thanks for the info. It'll be very helpful. This also happens when you run hot loads. Sometimes, normal FL dies won't do it.
Invest in a rollsizer.Problem.solved.
So if I was going to buy a new set of reloading dies, especially for a semi-auto I would be much better off to buy the small base dies? Why not just buy small base dies for every caliber/firearm even if they are semi-auto, bolt action or single shot?
I do have small base dies for my 22-250 made by Parker-Hale that I bought used in 1995. It is a gorgeous rifle! I bought 2 new boxes of Remington 50 Grn soft points when I got the rifle so I shot 1 box to zero the rifle, shoot a few water jugs and a few walnuts laying on one of the banks by my target butt.
I didn't have dies for a 22-250 yet so I rann up to my friends house who did have dies and multiple rifles in 22-250. This one time I decided not to take my rifle with me as I always did so that I could reload a few and then run them through the chamber, the reason I didn't take my rifle is because I have NEVER had a problem with any reloads going into my chambers BUT I did this time!
I got home, grabbed my rifle and 20 reloads, tried to chamber the reloads and I could barely get the bolt handle closed on my rifle without a lot of force and on some I didn't try any harder to close the bolt because I didn't want an out of battery detonation.
The next day I grabbed the reloads and my rifle and went to the old, very rural, gun shop about a mile up the road from me and the old gun smith, who was a genius and my friend's uncle grabbed a set of RCBS small base dies in 22-250 and to stay away from full length dies for this rifle because the Parker-Hale is high quality and has a very tight chamber because they may use a set of "Brushes" to ream a chamber on 10 rifles whereas Remington, Winchester and other American gun makers will use a set of brushes to do 100 chambers
I bought the SB RCBS dies and never looked back WHICH IS WHY I am asking about being better off just to buy the small base dies in any new set of dies?
Any known options to use an almost case head size ram to fully push the case through a die fully resizing the case head and body just above the extraction groove (on the idea of bullet sizing) perhaps using a 2 section ram, if needed, to fully push case through die? I read the following "small base" comment here SmallArmsSolutions Live Q&A - June 30, 2023 "@LuvBorderCollies 1 day ago My experience with small base dies is ..... save your money. Short version> late 70s got a RCBS SB die 223 for a Mini14 and Colt SP-1. Chronic problems with failure to fully chamber often enough to finally be annoyed to figure out why. The small base die was squeezing down the brass towards the case head. Because of variations in brass thickness/hardness some would have a tiny "ring" just ahead of the extractor cut. This was all it'd take to massively jam up the SP-1.**
So I got RCBS standard 223 dies and never had another problem. Gunshop customer came in (2011) with exact same problem. Told him the answer what I did. Looked like I had 3 heads but I guaranteed it would work or every penny back. He never came back.
**I really really learned to appreciate the strength of the Colt made operating handle. I was certain it HAD to break dozens of times but it didn't phase it. Kudos to Colt old time quality."