The evidence that damned Alonso in Russell’s Australian GP crash
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2024
- You don’t normally see an F1 driver punished for someone crashing behind them without any contact - but Fernando Alonso’s driving in the Australian Grand Prix was penalised for exactly that.
Alonso was given a 20-second time penalty for the "unusual manoeuvre" that contributed to George Russell's dramatic last lap accident in Melbourne.
What initially looked like Russell shunting on his own in Alonso’s dirty air quickly morphed into something more, as it became clear that Alonso had at least lifted off the throttle on his way into the corner.
Unsurprisingly this became very divisive very quickly. Was it a brake test? Or was it just classic, ‘wily’ Alonso doing an age-old trick of making the car behind check up - and Russell just got caught out?
0:00 Intro
1:13 What damned Alonso
3:02 Alonso bites back
4:54 But... he's wrong
6:58 Why this penalty?
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can't brake early, can't brake late, can't defend a position, can't overtake outside drs zones... the only valid thing is overtaking with drs and the other guy is forbid to defend... pathetic
Bad take
My thoughts exactly, modern F1 is so sterilised, the number of overtakes is a metric thought upon so highly that defending is almost forbidden
If you break 100 metres early in a very fast corner with a car following closely behind, don’t you think that accounts for dangerous driving?
Good take. Can’t believe f1 penalties in last few years. Getting awful.
@@ibleminenno. Certainly no worse than weaving, moving under braking and pushing cars off. Which I’ve seen in f1 many times and no penalty last few years. I can give examples of Brazil 2021 Verstappen defending Hamilton. Much more erratic and dangerous driving than a lift off.
Pathetic decision today.
I'm sorry but I thought F1 was about racing not a steward "expecting" the driver to take a corner the same way every lap
Intentionally trying to influence with the balance of the car behind is a bit dangerous though, no?
@@alexanderlane2971 this was the least aggressive I've seen it but one of the only times a penalty has been given for it.
With that logic brake checks should also go unpunished.
@@alexanderlane2971 you're telling me you think Alonso's understanding of aerodynamics is so impeccable he knew that this would crash Russel ?
@@ciarankelman what I know is that he slowed down significantly with the intent of throwing Russel off, whether that has to do with dirty air aerodynamics or simply Russel having to take evasive manouvers. Dirty driving is what it is and it's something Fernando has gotten very familiar with over many years
The only thing worse than Russell’s driving, is this take 😂
this channel should go back to their Lego technic models
Mercedes fan here, totally Russell's fault. It's clear that he had tunnel vision on Alsono, and when Alonso did something unexpected, Russell lost control
Typical “RACE” analysis. The Non British driver is in the fault
Every single video of theirs I click I realize after about 3 minutes I haven't been paying attention and its just noise in the background because they are all just blabbering.
Well except even if they're 100% right you probably would still say this like I'm sure you have every time crashtappen took Hamilton or himself out
I concur
Amen
The FIA decided Alonso was guilty, they're French. So the race analysis concurs with this however much your non British illogical brain doesn't like it. Take the emotion and feelings out of your thought and use logic and facts. That's something that people who are "non British" struggle to do.
I have been saying this for years: They need to keep the same stewards for the entirety of the calendar. How can we expect consistency from them if they change at every venue?
I don't know the exact hierarchy in motorsport, but surely it's a power struggle between more local power bases and the FIA
my brother in christ, then they could influence the outcome of the race towards certain drivers all year. It's much more fair to change them every venue
Absolutely not, if theres say 6 people deciding and it needs to be decided 5/6 for this sort of thing, that stop people favouriting, get 6 people from 6 different nations to do it @terryallen660
I’ve also been saying this years. It’s obvious to a lot of people. Except the organisers themselves.
Plus British steward gave penalty to the driver who was fighting a Brit again.
I’m British and I’m fed up of it.
As it's the stewards decisions that will effect the outcomes of some races if you have the same stewards at every race they are obviously going to form biases and it's easy for them to favour certain drivers throughout the season
"Not allowing the consequences...to impact a decision"? If he didn't crash, there would be no review at all.
Fernando deserves no penalty.
Let me ask you a question "If Russell wasn't behind him only half a second but 1.5 seconds, do yu think Alonso does this exact manouvre?"
@@THEABY1996 Russell wasn’t right on his tail. If Russell was directly behind then it would be dangerous.
Alonso calculated Russell was not too close that there would be a risk of touching.
Russell could see alonsos car clipping by the light and should’ve expected a big closing speed.
Russell immediately admitted fault.
Racing incident where Russell got caught out. Red flag should’ve been shown immediately.
If Mercedes and George complained the stewards could’ve checked
@@THEABY1996 this is just regarded
You guys go pretty far in finding an excuse for Russell failing (again) to keep his car on track.
🇬🇧
If Russell didn’t crash in turn 6, he probably would have driven into the wall again like last year. Then Toto and George could have blamed the wall from jumping out and causing a crash. Pathetic!!
@@woodenhoeyes
it's madness I tell you, madness!!!!!!!!
@@robjohnston8632 the wall turned in on me! 🙄
Be honest, if the roles were reversed and Alonso had crashed chasing George, this report would have reached a totally different conclusion.
Once again the stewards are applying penalties based on the outcome of an action, instead of the action itself. This is why people are constantly complaining that the stewards decisions are inconsistent... and they are.
guess you didnt watch the entire video
How about watching the entire video before commenting? Just a thought.
They literally explained in the video and the release that they didn’t base it on the outcome.
Stewards are dodgy, Russel has crap car control given the slightest pressure and Alonso is dirty. Nothing we didn't know before this.
Tell me you haven't watched the whole video without telling me you haven't watched the whole video
If FIA doesn't want the drivers to race, just skip sunday and give points after Q3.
Or drive full race behind safety car
Flip a coin after the formation lap and save everyone some time 🤪
Plenty of other people manage to race without incident. Just because your favourite driver got punished for going too far, doesn't mean they're not allowing racing.
@@sergarlantyrell7847 Russell has a lot of late-race shunts. Just because your favorite driver can't keep his car on track doesn't mean it's someone else's fault.
@@e.heckscher1576 I actually dislike Russell, I think he's annoying. I'm just agreeing with the stewards that a quasi-brake check on a car .5s behind is dangerous.
But Alonso takes A LOT of liberties with what he thinks is "fair" racing, it was only a matter of time before he got in trouble for it.
so youre basically telling us that lightly breaking and downshifting 100 metres earlier than usual on a corner should be penalised with 20 seconds and a -3 point deduction? WTF is the point of driving cars if theyre not allowed to drive them?
at that speed though braking and downshifting with someone close behind is pretty dangerous no? The difference in acceleration between open throttle and light brakes + engine braking will close a 0.5s gap fast. 100 meters is also pretty early. I’m not firmly on either side with the penalty but come on. There’s only one reason to do that and it’s called a brake check. You can do it as much as you want, as long as there’s not someone right behind you.
@@yommishyou’ve obviously never heard of conserving fuel you know f1 cars are under fueled
@@cosmic4791I’m positive they would’ve been able to tell the difference between a lift and coast having the most advanced telemetrics in racing available to them
@@cosmic4791not the same at all!!
You don't break, downshift and then excelerate again if you're saving fuel. You lift and coast@@cosmic4791
The British accent gave the narrators position away before the video even started.
Seems like Australian accent fits the narrators position better.
and the dutch accent/media also give the narrative away with max etc etc etc
Please mandatory all car with turn signal, brake lights, and anyone who wanna change racing line or try to overtake at non-DRS zone MUST write an email to stewards and get approval first.
However, the rule would only apply to Non-British driver. Since you can do no wrong as long as you are British.
🤣
And they could also add an AM-FM radio with CD changer and power antenna for the long straights….
@@gouravghosh588 as a brit i have to agree, it sure looks that way
@@jsnsk101 Let me tell you the steward in question is a salty grumpy British driver who already has a history of throwing shade at Spaniards, Carlos and Alonso. He's Johnny Herbert. He was assigned AUS GP stewardship
New F1 rule: "All laps must be equal."
DEI here we come
*Communism intensifies*
Let me quote 33.4 of the sporting regulations: ‘At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous […]’
Did he drive unnecessarily slowly? Certainly! Was it erratic? Slowing and speeding up on a straight sounds pretty erratic to me. COULD it be deemed potentially dangerous? Many people feel that way => slam dunk penalty.
@@roku_nine it was in a curve and not in straight line.
I had a discussion once, because I took a curve different as all the other drivers to try a better exit. As the driving line was different, the car behind me crashed on me.
Who's the fault in that case?
All fault with the behind car, because he must respect my driving lines if they are not intended to be erratic or bad.
The car behind, MUST be aware of the distance, braking points, possible changes in lines, etc.
You cannot follow the front car with your eyes shut. If you know what I mean.
Following the car ahead, you must be 10 times more aware of your moves and the car ahead.
In this case, Alonso was ahead, he made a change in his breaking point and driving lines. Why should he keep the same pace and lines? He didn't do anything erratic or misplaces.
On the other hand, Russel, was too confident that Alonso will do exactly the same breaking point, driving line and acceleration.
Overly confidence, leads to crash in all motor sports.
He should have been following each Alonso's move and take advantage of that early breaking point, instead of speeding normally.
@@gabrielk6244 Go and look at how that corner is driven. You take it with as much entry speed as you can for the downforce to work, as it flows onto the long backstraight (the prime overtaking section).
It's not a low speed 90 degree corner that benefits from a slow entry.
If Alonso was English, the Race would defend him to no end, but Russell is English......
33 likes
Yup. Always Mercedes mouthpiece.
Envy is a sin.
@@androod6211envy of what?
Wow, I didn't realize you had to approach a corner the exact same way every time otherwise its a penalty. Russell never even got particularly close to Alonso watching the in-car replay. This is the most shambolic penalty I've ever seen in F1. Hamilton got a 10 second penalty for missing the apex in at the fastest corner in Silverstone, hitting his competitor and sending him spinning into the wall in Silverstone. Alonso gets a DRIVE THROUGH (converted to 20 seconds) for... slowing down early to get a better exit for a corner. Right...
Russell was 89metres behind Alonso at the time.
The issue is which you’ve missed is that Alonos made a mistake and he admitted it. He slowed down then accelerated and then lifted to make the corner. That’s the issue. If he didn’t accelerate and had judged the distance and corner , it would have been fine
@@tombardsley3081 How does it matter he admitted to some mistake? Non-argument.
@@safetycar-onboard it's pretty much proof that he made the mistake then. If he denied it, it wouldn't have been a slam dunk penalty and he and Aston would have appealed in that case
@@tombardsley3081Are you saying all mistakes are infractions that must be penalised? If not then what are you on? The mistake doesn't matter, because it's Russels mistake that caused him to crash.
Alonso has been doing it for years. Vettel used to do that too. It's a genuine way of defending against someone attacking. Why not just take the cars away and have the drivers jog round the track.
BobbyKars
Yeah seems like a good thing to do, make others crash via brake-testing. Seems not dangerous at all el oh el@@ilias-mu4vt
Fair Point 😂
The Race would prefer the race was skipped altogether, with wins being rotated through the British drivers
Beat it ya clown. The rules are clear.
I'm not an Alonso fan but when he states, "it's part of the art of motorsport", I believe he's right and that he's been unfairly penalised.
Watch 4:54
There's part of Motorsport where hard driving and running your opponents out of track is acceptable.
It's called Banger Racing or arrive and Drive Go-Karting. The problem with F1 is you can't do that to someone at 180mph it's well established that is not acceptable driving standards.
we all know the Alonso quote "I think he push me off the track you have to leave a space, All the time you have to leave a space" On that occasion the door was closed before Alonso got there, but he tried an overtake anyway then got upset because there was no track left.
@@Lamster66is there a point to this word salad?
@@baclava69educating the likes of you maybe? Best go and do one!
@@Lamster66 so still no point apart from a thinly veiled stab at Alonso. Got it
TITLE SHOULD BE: "The ALLEGED "evidence" that damned Alonso in Russell’s Australian GP crash" ... This video report has now 19K Dislikes vs 12K Likes ... go figure!
Go figure how many crybabies hate mercedes even when they no longer have success. And F1 Fans haveing small brains isnt new.
+ Disliking the presented evidence and reasoning isnt something you should dislike in the first place, unless you indeed have a small brain, because the video simply gave you the reasoning given by the stewards which you were clearly searching for. So the video gave you exactly what you looked for, yet you were angry with the stewards and what next? You think the stewards will get the message if you dislike this video? xd
Well thats very surprising indeed.
19k vs 14k now.
@@AlexTamayo.It's now 240k vs 391k
@@prospekt1909 wow, that's so funny! I've never heard a funnier joke, omg! 🤦♂
but sending a driver to hospital will cost only 10 sec penalty if you are a british driver.
The teams and drivers asked for harsher penalties this year. I guess u wouldn't know that
@@mehdeem4270 i gUeSs U wOuLdNt KnOw ThAt
@@mehdeem4270 Come on man. You can do better than that.
@@DuckmanR10 🤡
@@williamkaplan6414 did i say wrong?
Even Russel says it wasnt Alonso fault, he took it on himself and admited that he lost control. Sure it surprised him, but that doesnt mean that Alo is to blame.
He blamed it on himself right after leaving the car but then blamed Alonso in the media pen. It looks like the team influenced him to raise the issue
Considering they might be teammates next year, I wouldn't wanna try to cause any drama either. Especially with Alonso.
He dint say that kid
@@siddhantmehta1591Yes, he did. Just inform yourself before you write such comments.
Stop twisting the truth kiddo.
Bruno Senna lifter earlier entering turn 1 in Barcelona, Michael Schumacher got caught out and crashed into Bruno. Schumacher was given the penalty because it was "his responsibility" to avoid collision since he was the "trailing driver" and every media outlet agreed it was Michael's fault because Bruno Senna had every right to defend in the manner he did. But now that a Brackley-based team crashes out because Alonso slowed earlier entering a corner, it's the car in front that gets penalised. Both scenarios were racing incidents. But the way the stewards hand penalties is undeniably erratic, and it interferes with the outcome of the standings way too much.
Great example
Should be top comment.
All these dumb 'examples' just prove you don't get why Alonso got the penalty. It's not just that he braked earlier, or lifted just before braking. He lifted (braked), accelerated and then braked again, erratic driving. That's what got Alsonso the penalty. If he hadn't messed up and just done it in 2 smooth motion it would not have been a problem and Russell would have been to blame. Alonso fucked it up and got caught.
@@Sam-te9sj blablabla, all your rambling proves you dont understand why he got the penalty and why they're now looking for excuses.
Potentially? F1 is now "Minority Report".
The only evidence the stewards needed was that Alonso is Spanish and Russell is British!
Yes, the british youtube channel thinks alonso should be penalised. Not surprising.
Exactly but to add to the disgrace they have to go above and beyond with name-calling "amateur" , "madness" etc... and seal the deal with " 100% " certainty.
As if you could be 100% sure in a matter like this if you're objective!
So are you trying to say a multiple world champion and veteran of F1 did that by mistake?
Such a large mistake that he went down a gear and was so slow for the corner had time to go back up before it?
So by your logic either this was on purpose or he is completely incompetent.
I doubt its the latter.
Also I couldn't care less that Russell crashed - thats his own problem for not being able to deal with a situation. However allowing a blatant brake check to go unpunished seems like inviting Alonso to continue to do it.
When you have no point to make, you attack the person making the argument. If you have a point, then make points about the incident.
@@siraff4461 Magnussen did it in Jeddah... The Race praised it. Alonso does it in ONE corner, it is "madness".
The evidence is there, it’s not a matter of opinion, what he did was dirty, he hit the brakes while George was travelling at full speed, when George would’ve had his eyes focused on the apex. Alonso slamming the brakes early, then accelerating again, would’ve distracted George causing him to lose his concentration, his own braking point & entry into the corner. That’s unsportsmanlike conduct & Fernando rightfully got punished.
I have never ever disagreed with a report as much as this one. They would never have penalized Alonso for a change in corner approach without Russell's shunt.
and spectators getting hurt.
The FIA just make it up as they go along, alonso got 20 second for this but max only got 5 second when he moving in to the middle of the track and brake checked Lewis on a straight when he had to give up the place in 2021
I think that’s the point though. It essentially was like a brake check.
Yeah… obviously. Did you not watch this video? That’s the whole point.
Did you not watch the video? This is literally explained at the end of the video.
so a man cannot make a mistake? he's still human, and at the end of a race. Russel is the one that wasn't able to keep it because he wasn't ready to react
What I'm hearing (In a pedantic brittish accent): "our boy doesn't know how to properly overtake a car or drive a race car, so it's Alonso's fault"
British commentators try an impartial take challenge (impossible)
As a brit myself I agree 👍
you can always tell an Enlishman, but not much.
The guy did a dangerous brake check, wtf has the nationality of the following driver got to do with that ffs
@@senseofthecommonman what was dangerous about it??? he barely braked and was just doing what any sane driver would do to keep position on the last lap of the race. It's not Alonso's fault that Russell was in lala land
By this analogy. Every time a driver moves to the inside to defend they should get a 20 second penalty for dangerous driving because they're doing something different to the lap before. Sorry the-race but I wholeheartedly disagree with you and the stewards on this one.
He was driving defensively. That's all.
😅🤣👍 he moved 1 cm to the left and he braked 5 cm earlier .he didn’t do that the previous lap so 20 second penalty
I wouldn't say lifting 100 metres before you have before in the race is a bit more than covering the inside. He himself admitted to making a mistake
From what I understood, the only reason there are comparisons with previous lap is to show that he really started slowing down way before the corner. The reason for the penalty wasn't "driving differently than previous lap", it was "dangerous driving" which I think deliberately downshifting at 250+kmh with car following you 0.5s behind easily counts as.
Stewards gave a pretty complicated explanation so of course it's easy for you to pinpoint some sections to suit in defending your driver, but I'm pretty sure if the team thought Alonso's actions were excusable they would just appeal the decision. Not like they can lose anything from it.
Move to the inside? That's fine. However, if they move inside, change their mind, and go back on the outside, that could cause the overtaking car to misjudge which direction to dive and crash.
Cant believe real people still even watch F1. FIA's cuckoldry in the last 10 years has been unreal. Shitty sport now
George has proven to be unstable when his car gets close to another. This is a number of incidents now in his career. It’s a thing.
If we wanted consistency in every corner we’d watch NASCAR.
Why? Is Nascar on rails or something
What? Even on ovals in nascar there are multiple lines you can take through the corner. The ideal line can change through the race as your car changes and the track temp changes.
@@f.b.i2644 Exactly, and there is normally more sliding and tire degradation. Just watch their latest race at COTA to see a lack of consistency in laps lol.
This isn’t a good take. This feels like a journalistic attack towards Alonso as opposed to simply explaining the penalty and why it is or isn’t the correct decision.
Huh? He explained it in detail?
@@themercedestraveler9566ah yes, calling him a “rank ameteur” and spending an entire video trying to justify it without showing the other side, isn’t an attack. He is not responsible for the actions of another driver.
Modern new media nowadays
All they actually did was present data as "COLD HARD FACTS" presenting one explanation of the data whilst totally ignoring another possible explanation.
Then on top of that they assign moral deviancy to that other possibility. "Rank amateur" "completely unbecoming". What is actually going through these people's heads when they write this?
In 2002 Barrichello decided to brake early for the first corner and Ralf Schumacher rear-ended him and got airborne. What did Ralf say after getting launched into the air and landing in the barriers? From what I remember he said that "it's a racing incident" and "the driver in front has the right to brake whenever he wants".
Exactly. Villeneuve crash Montreal 2006 following Ralph Schumacher. F1 is turning really really soft and fruity
We will get to the point where a clean overtake will be called dangerous driving
@@brentvillanueva15 classic crashes are good andy. F1 drivers do not like fans like this.
@@ALIGHTFORTHEWORLD Old school F1 drivers or modern day (past 4 years) "non fat sugar free soy latte" type drivers?
@@OnlineHipHopTV And soon circuits will have speed limits at different zones, traffic signals and before you know it, we'll be paying to watch traffic.
This will be Russels 3rd last lap shunt all by himself. Why penalize Alonso? The is BS.
When was the last time a driver took 20 seconds and 3 license points without making contact with anyone?
Edit: typo
Yes and No
The 20 seconds was because it was classed as a drive through penalty (which they have been able to use but not bother to since they brought in five seconds). As it was after the race, this was turned into a time penalty (20 seconds being the estimated time it would take to serve the penalty normally)
The three points definitely seems harsh on top of that and unusually high, which is why more and more people are being extremely sceptical of why these two penalties were given on the day Johnny Herberrt, a known Mercedes supporter, was in on the decision.
@@MrSniperfox29 I get what you're saying and I understand.
When was the last time a driver took a drive through penalty and 3 license points without making contact with anyone?
Edit: more typos
Brit media getting triggered every time a British driver has an issue with Alonso is fucking hilarious
I totally agree with you.
Oh wow, an English F1 media outlet vilifying a non British driver. I swear that Russell, Norris, Hamilton could shoot Verstappen and Sky, The RACE, BBC etc. would all come out and say "Well I think we need to look at the facts first, Verstappen has a very shootable face so I really think the blame here is 60/40 Max's fault"
“Shootable face” that’s hilarious.
Its always the case. The blatant villifying is so pathetic.
😂😂😂
@@bakeshield2761In every sport, the British media do this. They are a bunch of sore losers and bad winners 🤣.
Nothing but facts
Anytime a Mercedez Benz crashes "NO NO MIKEY, THIS IS NOT OKAY"
You know what’s funny? They can analyze all of this and give Alonso a penalty (despite him just racing and keeping George honest), but they can’t give Norris a penalty for a jump start everyone saw
This is why you aren't a steward, and they are.
Sorry but you're wrong on this one guys, Alonso was penalised for taking a corner differently, George didn't react to that well and lost control of his car. The stewards clearly punished the consequences rather than the action, which if George didn't crash wouldn't have even been talked about.
Same if you drink an drive. If you don’t get pulled over nothing happens, but it doesn’t mean you are not doing something wrong
@@jimenezgd9916 So you're saying if a driver takes a corner differently to get a better exit etc. they should be penalised for that too as it's also doing something wrong?
Ridiculous.
@@tomevans9512 not differently when you lifted, braked, downshifted back in throttle, up shifted and then you brake again, downshift before taking the corner. Go watch the telemetry and tell me if he didn’t do something wrong. Now, the penalty too harsh,but he was erratic and that is a fact.
@@jimenezgd9916 So you want the FIA to monitor every drivers telemetry at every corner, decide if they've been "erratic", very objective measurement there, and issue a penalty?
@@tomevans9512 telemetry is for you to educate yourself. So next time you don’t say “corner differently to get a better exit” braking hitting gas, braking and hitting gas before a corner will never give you better exit.
For your info: 13k likes / 17k dislikes on this "report"
There is still an option to see the dislike ratio on RUclips.
Where? I disliked as this was not a journalistic and unbiased report. Glad to see it’s not just me.
@@southbrit the app RUclipsREVANCED restores the dislike count amongst other things like background playback and blocks ads which are even part of the video itself.
The dislike count just disappeared though. I think they can remove the dislikes entirely on their video, probably to make themselves look better.
13k up vs. 16k down now.
13k / 17k now
Hardly ever see a video with such a bad upvote to downvote ratio, since the 'removal' of the dislike button. If my addon is right, it's 11k up to 14k down.
I remember when hamilton and max verstappen had a crash and max slammed in the barrier with 51g, but hamilton got only a 10-second time and handed two penalty points.. but braking earlier is 20 seconds and three points? that's insane lmao.. FIA needs to get their shit together
Such bullshit. He eased through the corner differently because it was the final lap and he needed to get the car home. Russel’s inexperience is not Alonso’s fault.
it isnt, he wasnt penalized for russells driving, but for his own given only his telemetry.
So if two weeks ago someone crashed being backed up by Haas cresting a 25 second gap would have the same rules application?
The difference is consistency - something a multiple world champion is acuteley aware of.
@@siraff4461No it isnt. The difference is that someone made an error and lost control of their car. This is MOTOR RACING, not the fucking freeway.
At no point did Haas _suddenly and unexpectedly_ slow down
@@valerierodger5 cars guessing Magnussen’s next move where he was going to sandbag to bunch them up
@@Sean-if7rp Magnussen simply slowed his acceleration out of corners where there was no overtaking opportunity, exploiting the characteristics of the track. Not once did he brake-accelerate-brake into a corner. One is slow and one is just erratic
Lets put this in context... He lifts 100m before when he does over 225kph to travel 100m would take him like slightly over 1s so coming off the throttle at 1s earlier is nothing in terms of time is not anywhere near as daunting as this over emphasized 100m remark you making about distance when the argument is coming about reaction times.
Russel's telemetry is missing from this analysis. Beacuse if, I dunno, it turned out that he actually braked LATER than usual, carrying more speed into the corner, than all this discussion goes out of the window, doesn't it?
That's the big question. Where's Russell's telemetry?
Are we expected to believe that the lead car must consider what a car, half a second behind him, might do if he changed his approach to a corner????? That's unbelievable!!!!!
The Stewards basically told Alonso "You have no right to defend your position."
When MAG did it in Singapore, it was ok and when PER did it in Abu Dhabi 21, it was ok, and now suddenly, it's a problem
@@lck0ut348brake checking is not defensive driving ffs.
@@senseofthecommonman LMAO
Brake checking is slamming brakes hard like senna used to do it in his career. Alonso slammed first brake at unusual turn which was about 27 kmh slower. If it was was brake checking it should have been way more. Only 2 conclusions, he made a mistake or tactical racecraft for better exit. If you don't know every other driver in past used to do this but they weren't as soft and went harder too, watch prost vs senna Silvertone 93,mansell at aus. it's just cars now rely on downforce too much. He got caught by dirty air and merc were already snappy .Alonso deserved a penalty but 20 sec + 3 pp for what half or more not being his fault is crazy.
@@otokonitimothy4367agreed. It's a clear case of FIA double standards in action.
So he was accused of a "brake check" even though his braking input was so negligible that coming off the throttle had a bigger effect - and they didn't have the evidence to be certain over his intention, but gave him a penalty anyway?
Fucking pathetic on the Stewarts part. If Russell didn’t crash, we would not even have this discussion.
Why aren't appealing man,they would be 4th in standings
Clearly you don’t know anything about drag or engine braking.
Anyway, Alonso was 70kmph slower than his previous lap. Brake checking is a pretty valid accusation.
@@paperplane-db8qf What a strange accusation to make. I didn't say he wasn't slower, or intentionally slower, but as he said, he was slower in order to get a better exit out of the corner.
Russell went off because of dirty air, not from having to avoid Alonso.
@@Ruylopez778 did you even read the report or watch the video. he slowed 100m earlier than any other lap in the race, then reaccelerated, then began breaking again for the actual corner so yes a completely valid accusation. the accusation to which he has been penalised by the stewards.
Yeah Alonso misjudged the corner and lost a bit of time because of it, but he wasn't the one who made a mistake, Russell was the one that couldn't comprehend a car moving slightly different than he imagined it was going to, and therefore lost the car. Alonso didn't make Russell crash. Russell did it himself.
That acceleration and then deceleration caused Russell to crash. It was a dangerous manoeuvre. If Alonso didn’t have to accelerate again it would have been fine
FIA/F1 need to now analyse George's driving data of the crash.................especially sine this has happened to said George last season.
Alonso took Russell to school, and now the Stewards are basically stating that drivers need to drive according to what their telemetry was reading out for the entire race. He was defending the position plain and simple.
Let me quote 33.4 of the sporting regulations: ‘At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous […]’
Did he drive unnecessarily slowly? Certainly! Was it erratic? Slowing and speeding up on a straight sounds pretty erratic to me. COULD it be deemed potentially dangerous? Many people feel that way => slam dunk penalty.
"He was deffending position" right before a turn, without forcing any contact whatsoever. I don't gnow if, in deed, can get more plain and simple than that.
the alonso school of brake checking
@DerSim688 The Stewards flat out said they took the decision, not bearing the accident in mind , implying that if the accident hadn't happened, this would be a non-issue. On this basis, Checo had no business backing up Lewis in Abu Dabi, given the "magnitude " of the race.
@@reslllence A break check forces the driver behind to avoid contact, which is not the case. Also, Alonso is not the "inventor" of this, not even close. With all that said, the penalty is acceptable. The 20s... way too much, seeing similar cases in the near past. You force a driver into the wall, you get 5s. You downshift BEFORE a turn, 20s... I don't see the consistency here
Alonso: Not the first time Russell has crashed on the last lap 🤣
Not the first time Alonso has pulled a scummy move and those two championships were an awfully long time ago. He is a slightly above average F1 driver, living on past glories, for as long as he can get away with it.
@@calibrazxr750 And that is why they have you as credited performance anaylisit. Oh wait, they don't actually
@@Max.44 none of the idiots commenting on here, you included, are one of the stewards, and yet you all know so much more than they do. But I guess the clue is in the fact that you are all idiots.
@@calibrazxr750 "Slightly above average F1 driver" You must be new to this F1 thing, because out of 20 drivers in the entire world that get a seat, the slightly above average ones get to fight for championships on a good car. Funny how you thought that was an insult to a 2 time champion.
@eliasvaldes82 as an F1 driver, he is slightly above average. There are 10 teams and 29 drivers. He regularly finishes around the bottom half of the top ten. He rarely threatens the podium and never looks even remotely like he is going to win a race. He is the epitome of slightly above average. It's not an insult, it is an accurate description based on the available evidence.
Why didn't they give equal penalties according to previous accidents caused like this? Just because a 10sec penalty wouldn't have done anything they changed it to 20sec... What the fuck!
Basically everyone in the 80s, 90s and 2000s would get a dozen penalties per race
The Race, now try again without crying.
This was a pathetic video hahaha sounds like that cat meme with the crying girl
Just a British racing channel supporting a british racing driver who couldnt follow a car.
George is not a world champion material. He was schooled by Alonso 😂
And Alonso didnt even look at him or touched him... that is his power
I hope they took into account the fact Russell has history with last lap crashes where he seems to lose his focus.
These distant, after-race penalties are turning Formula 1 into a Court Drama series.
It wasn't a distant, after-race penalty. It happened during the last lap and was imposed ASAP. The confusion was why Alonso was 8th in the final standings when he finished 6th and now we know why.
I can see the sportscasters saying, "An F1 race was held today; Results tomorrow."
@@MrPhilbautista5 hours😂
Why do you still watch? F1 isn't racing, it's an exhibition of technology.
@@busher69 So you don't play or watch video games, just listen about them?
What about a movie? Same deal? Digital cameras run on metal oxide semiconductor technology.
I would suggest you switch to reading the paper, but even newspapers run on technology.
Even listening requires technology.
I bet you rarely wake up in the morning without the assistance of technology.
You might as well sit down and watch technology happen.
So.....a pro driver at the 'pinnacle' of the sport failing to react appropriately to an 'age old' tactic is the practitioner of that tactic's fault....according to the scrutineers......brilliant. 😶
It just can't be Russell's fault.
We can't have people convinced that he just isn't as good as the British media wants him to be.
"Failing to react appropriately" while driving a car on the edge is a naive way to judge the accident. He isn't driving a car that's on rails, anyone with two eyes can see that the Mercedes is very unstable at the rear. A brake check during a high-speed turn with a car that's on ice is an accident waiting to happen.
@@matthewledford7209 Why should anyone other than merc sorry what that particular car, can or not handle? Jfc Russell failed to see what was going on and binned it. Simple
@@user-pi9bh8yw9y The car being unstable is mitigating circumstances for him crashing, the main point is when a driver is driving on edge, an unexpected/unwarranted lift during a high speed corner while the other driver is close by is dangerous.
@@user-pi9bh8yw9y ?Simple?
Brake checking is not part of racing. Period.
“Pinnacle of Motorsport” and THIS gets a friggin penalty; okay so we’re done with ‘defensive/strategic’ driving? Not Fernando’s fault that a young’n couldn’t deal.
Absolutely. Sh!t, they analyse this but there are plenty of instances where a driver will change their line or approach to fend off/displace another driver, but nothing is said of it. Example. How many times have we seen a driver go for the inside on the approach to a corner but then on the exit deliberately 'holds' the corner and slows up the other driver. Is this not in breach of the very regulations Alonso got stung for? Plenty of other examples as well. Sh!t, Russell had how many laps to overtake Alonso yet he could get past. I believe there are other examples like this where Russell has found himself in the same situation with the same out come.
Literally, like he isn't called osama bin russel for nothing.
F1 is doomed and this channel is pure garbage.
I'm glad we have professional experts here everyday in RUclips comments.
@@aaronwestley3239 go back to watching drive to survive
If a British driver did the exact same thing to Russell then The Race would simply call it a “cheeky little move that made George lose his sixes and sevens”
Alonso cannot be blamed for Russell’s foolishness. Canada, Singapore, and now Melbourne-Russell crumbles mentally under pressure
5:56 Alonso’s mistake is more befitting of a rank amateur? Bro chill out. Also, Alonso is being penalized for messing up a lift and coast. He never intended to break check Russell. Same way an overtaking driver gets penalized for mistakenly overtaking off track even if they didnt intend to.
Disagree here that he was "extremely" dangerous. He didn't slam brakes, just lifted and changed gear. Slowing down in tight corners is a racing manouvre, seen in many series and done by many drivers (ie. the Magnussen train last race).
I don't think this would have been even considered for a penalty 10 years ago.
Russell is a B-driver! Mercedes should get rid of him.. makes so many small mistakes and big ones 😂
The braking isn't the issue it's him having to get back on the throttle that did him in. Had he braked 25m later and coasted the corner it wouldn't have been an issue
Anyone that says he braked hard causing the crash didn’t read the stewards’ notes. This just further demonstrates how inaccurate the publicly available telemetry data is. It shows Alonso braking hard, he braked so light in reality, the stewards didn’t even attribute it as a worthwhile factor to consider.
@@watersnortmoment3734didn’t you see the video? The brake telemetry is binary, either a 1 or 0. Also lifting during high speeds effectively works like breaking.
@@aaawac2174 genuinely doesn’t matter, there is no logic behind the stewards decision
Patethic from the Race. Villanizing Fernando for being a racing driver just because the guy behind him was careless is not the level I expected you guys to stoop to. And trust me that level was already low. But here we are.
If he was British there would be no issue
All I got from this is that @therace is a George Russel fan.
🗣🗣since 2007
People don't seem to understand how dangerous slowing down on the apex of a fast turn is. With .5 of a second gap, a crash was almost inevitable. Alonso is one of the best drivers that's ever lived, he knew exactly what he was doing.
if this were a slower corner, no one would bat an eye at a car driving slower to park itself on the apex to defend.
"A moment of madness" Really?? I Highly doubt that his botched attempt at a recing maneuver could be considered madness. Calling it madness seems to be very unfair and uncalled for. When you look at the incident from an unbiased perspective I do not beleive a reasonable person would call it "madness".
Did you see what happened in F3 with the driver swerving at and hitting another driver? THAT was a moment of madness and it went unpunished!
What a joke
This is possibly as absurd as claiming Alonso milimetrically calculated the exact instance to back Hamilton up in Hungary 2007 so that he didn’t have enough time to restart another lap by less than a second. Guy might have a high IQ but he is not a god 😂
"A moment of madness!" ...what a drama queen this dude is lol. He speaks as those he is on the Merc team.
I’m not sure “the race” understands what madness is. Unacceptable and ableist towards people with mental health problems.
That’s the only reason fia penalized Alonso because George got caught asleep and wiped out.
If it was Yuki or Albon or anyone from a lesser team, no investigation would have happened :D
No it's not the case Russell could've ended up into the back of Alonso's car making a dangerous crash there
@@marothegamer36 and that my friend is motor racing.
@@marothegamer36 Russel didn't lose the control of his car because of alonso, he had plenty of room to see he needed to slow down more because Alonso was slowing down earlier, but that's his mistake, it should en here.
@@ShinkenKeruberosu Plenty of room? Did you not see the telemetry? Good luck trying to react to a blatant brake check at that speed/distance.
So driver have to match exactly the same braking, accelerating every lap and if you don't you get penalised?? Let see next race how the driver match their ever lap??
8:55 I wholeheartedly disagree with this being low cost, should the championship turn out to be as close as last year then 4 points can be the difference between P5 and P10. Not to mention that this penalty dropped Fernando behind George in the drivers and Aston Martin behind Mercedes in the constructor's championships respectively.
If that is the case, they should check all the stats from 14 turns x 20 cars x 58 laps = 16240 checks? 😂
We are living in 21st century. They just need to put a filter on the data to pickup extra-ordinary data. Can be done by a simple excel guy in 2 mins if they have the data.
19 cars*
LMAO@@okbutwhocares
@@arunbabu6524 they should work with Williams, my understanding is they are really good with Excel.
Si no eres británico si.
Keep going FIA, keep going... They should put speed limits and traffic ligths in order to be more secure, like we have in an average downtown. They penalized Alonso because Russell didn't keep the car in track, just that.
Yeah they should also penalise all overtaking because "dangerous".
These drivers should signal before they overtake like the rest of us safe drivers do!
I hate the ever increasing rules that are spoiling our sport, but brake checking is not acceptable, if you don’t understand that then you don’t understand motorsport.
Russell's driving is like he reading a script, Alonso is an improv comedian. Can't blame either for doing their job.
At this point it's pretty safe to say that the vast majority of motorsport fans think this is just a case of Russell being caught napping, not Alonso perpetrating some dastardly action.
it is interesting that Hamilton got 10s penalty for taking Max out from race (they have contact) in Britain 2021, and here Alonso got 20s penalty for impacting Russells crash.
You need to look at the document for the penalty. Penalties have now changed. If the current policies applied to the HAM-VER instance, it'd be the same drive-through penalty (converted to 20-second because the drive-through penalty couldn't be served during the race)
Interesting that Max only got 10 seconds for brake testing in 2021 🤨 and we can go on and on. FIA is inconsistent trying to get a patern is impossible
So they say alonso is allowed to enter the corner differently, but penalty given as he misjudged it. But then contradict themselves that as it was intentional that is aggravating circumstances to give a harsher penalty than the baseline 10sec penalty. Totally hypocritical and ridiculous application of the rulebook. It’s a racing incident. Alonso misjudged his entry, Russel misjudged his closing speed to alonso and missed his turn in and braking point and that’s it. Racing incident.
If this is dangerous driving then why no penalties for Verstappen in Brazil 2021, or probably a whole book full of incidents of pushing off track, weaving, moving under brakes that never get penalised.
Indeed if this is a penalty that harsh I don't' think Max has ever driven a clean overtake or defence in his life. Apply this style of stewarding and he would probably by now have so many penalty points as to be banned from driving for so many races that he would probably still be banned with how many points he'd have racked up in some of those epic multi lap battles (that where not always geniune penalty free, but still)... Max doesn't have to do anything on track very often these days, but the way he was driving when he actually had a rival or two makes this so laughable to penalise so harshly... If Alonso screwed up enough to cause contact or even force Russel to do anything to avoid him a penalty is fair enough, the usual slap on the wrist small penalty most likely with how far back Russel was - even with contact it would have still been partially his fault. But here Russel lost the car on his own, being spooked by Alonso choosing to take a different approach the corner... Something he should entirely expect, especially given that was a race for position with no tactical reason to let the other car through and drive your own race...
you don't even need to go back as far as Brazil 2021, Magnussen train at Jeddah 2024 exist 😂
if you make a mistake that causes an incident you are still penalised, do you think because bottas didnt mean to take 6 cars out at the start of hungary 2021 he shouldnt be penalised?
These drivers judge their entry speed to within a couple of meters, no way Alonso could misjudge it by 100meters by accident, do you really not understand that.
The only thing missing from this analysis is the fact that Alonso did the very same thing in the last race against Hamilton. I guess Alonso has figured out he can stall the airflow of these ground-effect cars by slowing into them. This stalled airflow is particularly effective if the car behind is also navigating high-speed corners where the extra ground force is crucial to keep them planted. This goes beyond whiley, and borderlines on premeditated intent to cause harm. He didn't break test, so much as he airflow tested him. He made a mistake all right. He didn't pull off this move smoothly enough to fool the telemetry. I wonder if he was spotted judging the distance to the car behind him. That said, no one has commented yet on the exposed underside of the Mercedes car.
I still don't understand how he's being penalized here. If he did break earlier because he thought it may cause some dirty air for Russell, than that is good tactic...
I'm with Alonso on this one. It's not brake checking if the car behind you has plenty time to respond.
with all due respect at those speeds, it is almost impossible to respond properly if you are only half a second behind
@@chipiegg1466what a dumb comment. They’re elite F1 drivers for a reason. Next.
@@chipiegg1466Russell had plenty of time to respond, he just didn't want to do what was necessary because it would compromise any chance of overtaking. His own stupidity and lack of talent caused him to crash.
@@chipiegg1466f1 drivers have, on average, a 0.2s reaction time. Half a second is more than double the time it would take to react. I feel that Russell had tunnel vision in the same way he had when he crashed behind Norris last year. He was caught napping.
@@chipiegg1466 and that's why racing is hard, and only the best can do it. but agree to disagree on whether this is fair, it's a subjective thing
The distance between Russell and Alonso when he lifts "early" is way significant for Russell to realize he cannot approach the corner at maximum speed. He misjudged the situation, like he did already more than once
They were .5 seconds apart. Think about what that means. Russel had almost no time to react.
@@andreigeorgesco Would a better driver like Hamilton or Alonso himself have crashed in that situation? I doubt it
@@Mammel248 yes hamilton rear ended max when he got brake checked last time?
@@reslllence this is an absolutely different situation, worthless comparing
@@andreigeorgesco yes, but that doesn't mean he had only 0.5 sec to react. That would have happened if Alonso suddenly became stationary. Look at Russell's onboard and tick the time when you realise that Alonso is slowing down; In my opinion a racing driver has more than enough time to react to that. The problem is that these cars get very pointy at that spot, we saw many drivers in FP (even Alonso in qualy) go through the gravel there
7:25 - bullshit and you know it. Hindsight's 20/20. We all know that nobody would be talking about it after the race, especially if Russel got past him. The only way I could see it is if Russel didn't pass and then he complained and complained.
Might as well just sim race.
Russell is well known for last lap crashes
This video is a rare miss step from The Race. There was a whole video less than 2 weeks ago on how f1 stewarding is still inconsistent, yet here is an example of inconsistent stewarding and it’s characterized as a rightful penalty for a dangerous incident? Cmon guys. If this is a dangerous incident then Alonso should’ve got a penalty in Hungary for his defense vs Hamilton and Perez should’ve gotten a penalty for his defense against Hamilton in Abu Dhabi. All three of these incidents have a slower car defending attacks from a faster car and using conventional driving methods to slow the car behind and get better exists into flat out sections. Only difference is Russell crashed and Hamilton didn’t. Even 16 year olds learning to drive for the first time know that it’s the responsibility of the car behind to avoid an accident. Sure you could argue that Alonso was inconsistent with his driving here, but it’s still the responsibility of the car behind to take extra caution.
It’s more inconsistency from a governing body that has time and time again given penalties based off an incidents effect on others and not the incident itself. Imagine if offsides was only called when a goal is scored. It doesn’t matter what happened after, you call the offsides if a player is offsides. It’s shocking to me that after Canada 2019 there was not a complete reset of the penalty system in F1 which 5 years later is still terrible and one of the worst in all of sport. Really disappointing and disingenuous reporting here from The Race.
Rubbish
while I whole heartedly agree with this general premise, I'd like to point out that sometimes, on rare occasions, we DO want to penalize based on the outcome. Like when Senna deliberately crashed into Prost to win the championship.
I guess those would be exceptional circumstances but my point is you cant always separate the outcome from the incident.
That said, this one is bonkers and The Race should be ashamed of this video. Absolute travesty
Britbong merc simps, no surprise
same thoughts w you
@@tiansiviveFair point, context definitely matters. Imagine what the reaction would’ve been if Verstappen crashed into Hamilton in Abu Dhabi 2021 lol. I just hope that f1 and the FIA can get it together to make more consistent and common sense rulings on penalties in the future. I don’t have much hope tho…
Could you please analyze several of Russell's laps going into that segment? He might have been approaching the corner much faster than usual as he was getting ready for an overtake
Exactly. Basically we need to see Russells speed at corner entry for the 5 laps previous for that same corner. Im convinced he took it a good few mph quicker and thats why he lost the car
Absolutely. That will be a good data to analyse as well, Russell was desperate to pass.
It's the same speed kid..check it yourself instead of creating doubts
And it might show him reacting too late to Alonso's lift/brake
It wasn't 👍
HOW did that affect russel ?
did russel had to brake suddenly ?
did russel had to swerve suddenly?
how it russel changed his telemetry due to this ?
none
What's the point of racing is NO RACING IS ALLOWED?!?!
You guys have got this wrong, Alonso did nothing wrong, this is racing.
2 things that damned Fernando: 1- One of the stewards is Johnny Herbert, 2- Fernando isn’t British.
Case closed.
Fernando gets away with shitty driving all the time. Good he finally got penalized for it.
Can someone tell me where i can get photos like the ones that appear in the video??
The thing is these days everyone thinks they are an expert when they aren't, even arguing like they are an expert at the event, with all the information available and just interviewed the drivers, even though they are just sitting at home with a beer and a packet of crisps....
other scenarios: drivers hitting others, resulting in an heavy crash. 5/10 sec
this scneario: fernando slows down a bit, big gap to russell, no contact, russell looses it, resulting in a pretty mild crash (in terms of impact). 20 sec
Bro read the document, it literally says the baseline for penalties this year is 10 seconds. They obviously thought the minimum penalty was insufficient, hence the 20 seconds instead. So the penalty is just a reflection of the current rules.
Missed the point, penalties aren’t given based on outcomes.
@@danasathan2410very obviously was in this case...
@@ibleminenpeople either can’t read, or process information that is given to them in a concise manner, all they hear and see is that’s not fair blah blah blah, which has absolutely nothing to do with the facts.
Honestly is not use trying to talk to people like that, it just passes through the hollow space between their ears….
@@bobbymoto1675 How? He didn’t get the penalty for Russel’s crash tho, he got it for the unsual approach he used to take the turn.
Narrator could barely contain his outrage at what happened to GR. Dude is practically shaking.
"How dare he do that to George!!! I'm gonna make a video RIGHT now"
Just making clickbait videos by exaggeration. I think it's more cynicism than genuine emotion.
Its up to the guy behind. If the AM did have an engine problem isn't George simply going to drive around him and make the pass? So in reality it's Georges reflexes that are to blame for not being able to deal with that situation.
getting your braking point wrong by 100 metres seems way outside F1 norms. At 100m different, no wonder Russel got caught out.
Honestly I think it's absolute nonsense he's been penalised. He didn't brake check him, Russell crashed. I get he might have been being wily but so what? That's correct.
Alonso earlier brake tests was more notorious to this one.
Did you actually watch the video?? ffs
@@yesitsme-qr1nt Simply Alonso fanboys. I'd ignore.
Note to self: never brake going into a corner, especially when you’re in front of a Mercedes.
@@yesitsme-qr1nttheir reason was literally he can't make a mistake hes a world champion lol