Read through most of the comments - there's a few things not covered in the video that I want to clear up: You still have to charge to do charge moves in modern (which doesn't make it too useful in this case) The auto hitconfirms don't exist for every autocombo, and only some of them are useful. The Luke example is easily the best one in the demo. 2nd best would probably be Ryu's medium auto combo which lets you auto hitconfirm ex palm into level 2 super. The rest in the demo aren't useful imo. The option select is doable with classic controls, just in a different way using negative edge, wouldn't surprise me if other modern exclusive tech developed though. Capcom said they are allowing Modern Controls for CPT, so I doubt there will be a ban lol. Dynamic controls are banned though. Pretty sure 10% of these comments are from people not actually watching the video and just based off the title alone lol... so if you are going to comment please at least watch the video omg. I made this mostly so you guys can learn how to fight players using modern controls (exploit lack of moves, etc.) or learn how to use, not trying to suggest modern controls will magically make bad players into pros and it's the death of street fighter as we know it lol. There is so much more depth / dimensions to what makes a top player besides the control scheme they use. Still unsure if modern controls should be strong but we shall see I suppose
The concept of modern controls still works the same way with all of the characters and their auto combo into supers. Regardless, you're still handicapped on modern and there's no way pro players will switch over to it from classic.
My only concern is that there's ever even a chance of modern controls being preferable to classic in a competitive sense. Modern actively disengages from aspects that make fighting games fighting games and it would depress me to see that become a contender for "the way to play"
@@BreadBeardFGC Bro you have nothing to worry about. Difficult execution isn't going away. Some pros may pick up modern but I guarantee you most wont. Also stating modern actively disengages from aspects of fighting games is definitely an overreaction. Stop dooming and start (sonic) booming..... sorry that was a dumb joke
People are talking a lot about the 1 button supers, but I really feel like it's the auto hit confirms that are the bigger problem. You never drop your combo and you never do an unsafe move on block. Like, getting perfect jab->uppercut confirms are kinda insane. I feel like modern controls would be fine if they just always did the full combo.
Yeah. I mean if someone is mashing into my block, I would expect it to be ending with something punishable to literally punish a mindless mashing player. Even if the first button is safe and they could choose to stop and reset, it just repeating button 1 until a hit lands is wild. A lot of players playing modern will lose to fairly basic stuff anyways so it won't matter for them, I just hope it won't be good enough to change the tournament scene too severely
Not sure why my previous comment got removed for spreading false info talking about how modern controls adapt their combos to be more optimal on punish counter automatically. Here's the video from animeilluminati showing an example of it. Same example I mentioned. st. LK punish counter will do EX donkey on punish counter and hurricane on normal hit. ruclips.net/video/NgyCzpNozKk/видео.html
@@chaselewis5372 that video has been shown to be inaccurate. numerous people have tested it and none have been able to replicate what happened in that video
@@zeywop yep, you are right! At least from my experience with the demo, it does not change the follow up move based on hit. Regardless it always goes for the same combo.
Hitbox/Keyboard/Mixbox/Fightbox/Snackbox: "Psst. Hey, guys. You want 2-button supers? Here you go." Capcom: "rEeEeEeHh!!" => banning all ABCs Also Capcom: "You guys want 1-button supers?"
@@thesaltmerchant4564 1. Two different things are different. Amazing you figured that out. 2. Hitbox or other ABCs are available to everyone as well. Use any keyboard for the same effect. 3. Making 1-button supers/dps available to everyone does not explain why you would want 2-button supers/dps banned.
FYI, modern autocombos generally DO comeout on block, like Luke's mp autocombo. He blows meter and does a punishable move if you don't confirm. I'm not sure why his light punch one doesn't come out on block, but that's not a big deal, since like you said, it's easy to confirm on classic controls, too. But, this seems to be the exception, not the rule. I see people below who think autocombos autoconfirm, but they don't.
It's not possible to confirm a single cr.lp like the auto combo allows. It just doesn't make sense. Even if his cr.lp is minus so he's losing his turn it's still a big deal.
damn i was hoping that modern controls would be like an easy mode where you dont get everything but its easier to play, and the good ol keypad input stick n buttons would still be optimal, idk how to feel about this
Yea… I’m still not sure how I feel about this. I think it’s cool for newcomers, but also as a competitive player I’d hate to be forced to use modern controls. I doubt that will be the case though, and I think 90%+ of pros will be using classic at least to start with. I’m still gonna train modern on the side though just in case
Yeah, I'm a newcomer and I'm having fun with modern controls playing teh Demo, but it does take a lot of execution away, which has been a part of the legacy of fighting games. Some moves are balanced around this. But on the other hand, it removes the gap from people like me that had always struggled with motion inputs during combos, especially the supers. You still need great fundamentals and be good at reading and mind games in general. Another good aspect, imo, is that it makes easier to transition from learning one character to another, as the controls are now unified this way. And motivates me to use different archetypes that I never felt comfortable with, like grapplers and charge characters. I was afraid Modern Controls would be very limiting, but I was surprised by the amount of freedom and control you still have in doing many different stuff.
@@Diaphone my experience with DNF duel makes me dislike this scheme as a whole. I too would have preferred it just be a way people get into the game and then eventually learn classic, but it’s looking like some characters it won’t really matter all that much!
@@celuiquipeut6527 did you know not everyone has an arcade stick and has been playing for years? New players are gonna look at classic and modern and they'll pick modern because its not cancerous on a controller.
I've been playing a lot of GBFV since GGST servers have been sucking. I wasn't critical of one button specials, but I take it all back. That shit is wild. You can't do anything fake if you have an invincible reversal. It really doesnt take long to train your brain to do the manual input for combos when you want dmg and the special button for instant stuff.
Agreed. You can easily separate them as two moves in your head. I thought the damage nerf would be across the board, now I hear the user has the CHOICE of which input to use for the special even when already in Modern mode. This is whack.
see you understand! People want to do fake stuff or make poor choices and expect to be saved cause the optimal punishes are execution heavy. People are scared and gaslighting like a boss when all these long time FGC players know there are combo's that only classic can do cause they get specials with 4 different strengths where as modern only gets 2.
don't forget being able to instantly use charge moves, as those moves are traditionally balanced around the fact that you tend to be a sitting duck. It's going to be real interesting to see how strong charge characters are in this game
@@nekoraver6179 I think you misunderstood the issue here. Fake stuff and poor choices are two very separate things. Most if not all decent players will go for « fake stuff » from time to time. It’s all about 1) keeping your opponent on their toes and forcing them to think 2) checking their knowledge about the match-up and potentially abusing something they are not aware of 3) mixing it up, reseting pressure and probably much more than I don’t know about. This has nothing to do with execution. The thing about modern control is that it has so many option selects, players will be able to automatically beat out some options without having to do anything, leading to simplified decision making for both players (just like the neutral jump punish during fireball spam shown in the video) There’s also the fact that you’ll be able to react much faster (even a few frames is a big deal) with special moves, it’s gonna make some stuff weaker, some stuff stronger. People will learn, people will adapt, but it’s a potentially big change, so it’s understandable that some are weary of the impact it is going to have.
Yea if I didn’t play Gbvs I wouldn’t understand how good this is. We all thought ez inputs were bad but then kazunoko was first to make master rank only using easy inputs lol
I played the second beta and from what I can recall people that played on Modern controls fell into one of these two categories: they had very good fundamentals or they were actually trying the game for the first time. It seems that it will be quite strong at the start, but the rest relies on the individual player's abilities so the veterans might be able to catch up on it.
I’m legit new to SF because I never wanted to learn 6 buttons but SF 6 made me a fan I’m here for the long run and one of my homies plays it faithfully anyways I was on the beta playing modern controls and loved it but now I’m practicing the classic controls because I wanna get good with them and I gotta say definitely a great fighting game and I see why there is so much love for it
@@ZandoZone I know I am late on this conversation...but it's good that you are learning Modern AND Classic. Overall , Modern and Classic are not inherenly better or bad , it really depends on the character. Just like the video showed , Luke looses basically nothing with Modern Control , but I dare say the same wouldn't be true for the likes of Kimberly or Juri.
@@phantasosxgames8488that’s what the problem I’ve been saying. I don’t hate modern at all but there are some characters who play so differently because of modern controls. Gief becomes more of a threat with modern than classic
Man as a low-end player who has put in hours learning and relearning characters just to not whiff this is a slap in the face Someone can pick it up and spam the specials. whats the point in classic .its dumb and going to be overtaken soon😢
@@risen1726 because Modern eats away half of the moveset. It doesn't matter if a low-end player can spam hadoukens with one button , when they face a pro , the end result is the Pro doing a Perfect K.O because they do a series of combos using normal attack. It's needs specific characters like Luke , that lost only 4 moves , to be a strong option.
I don't like that they don't really have a strong downside, it's pretty much with some chars alot better to pick modern over classic and that shouldn't be like that with any char
You are very WRONG. Classic is the stronger controls. Modern Controls has weaknesses like less normals, damage, combos, while benefiting from easier inputs like easier dps and easier faster supers.
@@CrystalMang0 my guy over here spreading misinformation. If you do the motion input, you don’t lose out on damage. The debate is losing 3 normals for frame 1 reversal supers (which does limit combo routes depending if your character uses the 3 missing normals for certain combo routes), the less damage debate has been long debunked, atleast for the specials you can manually input. For Luke, that’s everything cept 236K. The AI auto hit confirming depending on the situation is also pretty disgusting too, as mentioned in the video.
@@R_C32 being able to casually super ,anti air, or EX on reaction is HUGE and worth whatever loss there currently is. just ma @xzMango5 Being able to casually super ,anti air, or EX on reaction is HUGE and worth whatever. Whoever is winning is simply going to sit there with meter and let you approach lol
@@Diaphone eh with having to simplify controls they had to take out something somewhere. There aren't many fighting games that use five buttons in the first place for basic attacks
Just to make sure I understand correctly: Can you still use the classic controls when you chose modern ? I'm asking because of what Diaphone say at the end regarding the damage nerf only affecting on easy inputs. Can you still do motion control in modern control scheme ?
So I knew that the auto combo would come out on hit, but not coming out on block. Wiffing is perfectly understandable, but on block it should be up to the attacker to not be mashing their auto string to avoid blowing themselves up for bad offense, just 2 cents!
On block, most autocombos DO come out. For some reason Luke's light autocombo is different, but his other ones DO come out on hit or block. His medium autocombo, for example, will make him do ex flash knuckle on block if you just mash it without confirming (very punishable).
I hadn't known about the automatic hit-confirms until recently. This probably puts modern controls over the edge and into competitive territory. Also I don't like it as it removes the need for a skill that isn't execution.
Yeah agreed. They are reducing THE awareness skill from previous games with that, imo. Therefore the game might become 95% about neutral and RPS. Don't know it I like it either... will see...
I think a better way to handle modern controls would be to simplify some of the motion inputs. The new Idol Showdown removes DP for double crouch maybe doing things like this will make the game more approachable. Obviously with just a bit of practice you can DP with ease but for some new players it might help them along.
I don't know why tf they didn't do this. I'm a new player and honestly have no issue with the original controls apart from the god awful directional inputs. Can't see why it can't be simpler like MKX where its just left right, down right, down back etc as opposed to including the diagonal. Feel like it forces use of the analogue which I'm so bad with!
@@eggsandwich5278 Nearly everyone playing on a controller play with the d-pad and not the analogue. Just go from a button to another by rolling your thumb it ain't that hard. You can even slide it if you prefer.
Modern maynot have every more or max damage move.... but it's faster and SUPER consistent. Why risk a move for slight more damage, when modern has no risk and can just spam it over and over
At a certain level, you threre's nothing you can spam "over and over", SF is about mind games, set-ups etc, and for good/very good players, being optimal is the name of the game, you have 0 reason to sacrifice full damage potential and optimal combo routes for each situation just for a bit of ease of execution, which isn't even a concern at that level of play, seasoned players all have their execution on point... being gimmicky/flowcharting may get you out the lower ranks, but you won't go that far... actually, I can't remember having played online against anyone using classic... which may pretty much mean that it's not that viable...
i think execution is part of fighting games so if you remove that then that removes alot of competitive difference, tourneys or ranked you get nervous you get the jitters thats part of the environment, you can misinput, mistime or miss confirms. Modern removes all of that and it kinda just makes it --- excuse my french, a party game.
I feel like every discussion on this subject going forward is going to boil down to whether they should be balanced to be an equal alternative to Classic or an inferior "Training Wheels" mode that prepares somebody for Classic. Personally I think it should be the latter, as it's going to take a lot of downsides to convince pros that the consistency of Modern isn't worth it.
The ideal world would be that both modes to be perfect balanced, or very close to it. So you can choose, like you choose a character to main/play. But I agree this can be very hard and one will be favored to another.
@@binho2224 That is really not ideal. If Modern is balanced then what's the pay off for actually trying? Classic is obejctively more difficult and has more depth to it. It should be training wheels/for fun and that's it.
@@Lobster222 That's what "balance" means. What you're describing is "modern controls being better," not "balanced". If you have to ask "what's the pay off for actually trying", then clearly you aren't describing a system where Classic and Modern were actually balanced. And, there already ARE positives to Classic controls. The damage and complete movelist are a big positive. Like, Classic supers do a noticeable chunk less than Modern supers.
There are already notable drawbacks like with Ryu where you're missing pretty much half your movelist, meanwhile for Luke you're missing his forward which is one of his best pokes and his roundhouse which has insane range and has a disjointed hitbox. You also don't have the opportunity for more damaging and optimized combos nor the freedom of choosing a combo route should you choose Modern controls. Meaning that something like a Ryu short > donkey kick hitconfirm from Modern could be made up in damage through combos from Classic. If they nerf it too much then it'll end up like T7's assist system where it's just so shit that it's not worth using even if it has shortcut inputs for some moves.
I'm new to SF (but i've played other FG's) and I don't quite get your example of using Modern Control supers to whiff punish or catch people on reaction: the actual frame data of the super isn't any different in Modern, right? So what actually makes Modern Controls so much easier to use Supers as a punish like that? Is it just the additional time it takes to do the quarter circle or DP motion compares to a single direction makes that reaction harder to do?
It takes over 10f to do a raw super in neutral the old fashioned way. Reacting with super vs drive rush is basically impossible. 1f with modern control.
Yes, the time it takes to do inputs is *absolutely* traditionally considered in how a special is balanced. Not just that it takes time but that it takes a moment longer for your brain to go "oh yeah do the DP motion" unless you're explicitly thinking about them jumping. It's true for everything, but it's even *more* true for stuff like 360 motions where the only way to get them out rather than just jumping is to buffer them with another move. By doing it in one button you can just do it in neutral and do it *way* faster. IDK why people aren't more upset about this.
I feel that the most "broken" thing in modern controls is that the player still has the option to do motion inputs for a lot of commands for extra damage and has one button dp's and supers (the player can react a lot faster compared with a classic controller scheme). For players with the same skill level this MC scheme might be an advantage. I hope I'm wrong about this.
And as the old addage goes "if you can't beat them, join them." Which is where originality, and skills go to die. I've discovered so many new combos for different situations just by f ucking up the listed moves. It's sad because scrubs will lose out on that experience.
I agree that its really gonna be a per-character basis. There's gonna be someone who loses a key poke or some specific thing about a special or combo link that holds them back, but I'm especially excited to see some grapplers in Modern mode. If you can raw standing 720 without using some move to not jump, like Tager can with stylish in BB, that changes how you have to approach the matchup.
I am going to get SF6 because I'm a complete fighting game noob and it seems like a relatively good way to enjoy a fighting game without raging about how I suck doing quarter circles
For me GBVS and DNF are some of the only games that got this right. Everyone is using the same control scheme and there's an incentive to do manual inputs over easy inputs.
I thought the same. I don't like games where there's two available perspectives, for example third person and first person, all with advantages and drawbacks, the game should have one perspective and everything tailored to this one. The same goes for the control schemes and yes, GBVS combines that very good. They could leave the timer completely away when doing regular versions, their inputs aren't that hard after all...
i know this generation of people just want this like easy instant gratification, but I care to constantly improve at what I do and see my results through practicing and not just going on easy mode and pretending I’m good
After looking at Ryu and Luke in the Demo, I don't think the conversation will be about "you should always use modern / you should always use classic" but rather "which characters benefit / lose the most from modern / classic and is that trade-off worth it?" In my ideal world, there will be a character that benefits a lot from classic but is also really hard to execute in that control scheme which could be really cool to see play out.
I just started playing sf6 and im really new to the fighting game genre so ive been playing luke on Modern. What i dont get is the hate messages i get even after i lose the matches about how p****y i am for playing the game on modern and i really dont get it. Is it really frowned upon that i enjoy the game more with easy inputs?
I think luke is supposed to be an example of a character who will be good with modern controls. Ryu, a classic character, has more drawbacks with the scheme. The game also forces you to play with Luke's style, and modern controls, in the story demo. I'm curious if the pattern continues for the rest of the cast
Interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure it will be like that. In one week after the game is released there will be Tier lists for each character in each control scheme. I'm sure of it.
@@blinx_x9925 1 button walk up SPD is impossible to convey properly. You're basically the level 8 cpu from every street fighter past. Gief and modern controls go together like peanut butter and jelly.
I assume I can choose between which type control of players I want to fight against right (just like in SFV I have the option to choose to fight opponents on Playstation or PC)?
I wish they would have just made one control scheme honestly, I'm basically new to sf but I don't wanna not have my full arsenal, so I'm going classic. Also I assume that it would be easier to switch to modern than switch to classic if the meta declares a victorious control scheme.
6:25 On keyboard during the demo i actually got fireball a lot trying to classic DP. That seriously fked me up. Its bad habits from faulty socd cleaning
As a new player I feel like modern controls are more welcoming for me, I tried gettin into SFV back When it launched and I remember being so overwhelmed by all the inputs. But I know that you need to practice a lot to get combos right but as a casual player I just want to Launch the games from time to time and just have fun playin the game instead of feeling lost because I dont practice that much and not having a chance to win because I dont. And it’s a easier way to play with friends that dont play the game at all to just launch it, then take modern controls and play with just a little bit of explaining
Trying to make the switch to classic after a few days with modern as new player. Think you convinced me to stay with modern. Not used to fighting games with 6 buttons and now I can access with R2. You can also still do manual input for specials which is nice
Im curious, especially since you can still do specials with the classic inputs for full damage- thats never been my problem, but instant-supers sound SO GOOD. However, i cant know how drastically some characters will be affected by losing moves for a while still, and it could potentially screw muscle memory if one character is just trash without classic controls while another is basically only losing worthless moves by playing modern.
I’m a street fighter fan but it didn’t come to Xbox one so I played mortal Kombat X to 11 and now I finally play street fighter 6 and I realize, playing in classic takes longer to do specials like the upper cut. So I’m going to learn modern controls.
I wasn't aware that some characters had more missing moves than others. I'm convinced that tier list will be separated into modern and classic control versions of each character. So a modern control Zangief maybe rank higher on a tier list than the classic control version of Zangief for example.
Just because the special button doesn't let you get every special move because of lack of inputs doesn't mean you can't do the classic input yourself. I don't think you lose much of anything besides normals
I’m surprised this game doesn’t just actually tell us what to press without needing to know the code . In mortal kombat they tell you press square,triangle, etc . In this game it just shows fist and foot icons like wtf lol
With modern controlls and how they work, it feels like there will be two players playing a different game where different things are viable or even possible. That's a really wobbly base for a competetive game. I can only hope it will end up as a 'feel good gimmick' for casuals.
I'm still bummed that modern controls are most likely going to replace classic controls. I'm mediocre at fighting games but part of the fun of fighting games is the lab time you put in training mode will reward you almost all of the time and modern controls just skips over that with auto hit confirms. I understand not everyone has the free time to learn classic controls, but man.... it's going to take some time to accept this.
Im not even a fighting game try hard i played street fighter 4 to a rank most characters but that was my only street fighter and it took so much time in the combo training to get that good back then but this seems un fair and makes it mindless
I gave modern controls a try to see how it goes and while the combos and strings in built are cool unfortunately my muscle memory kicks in with classic controls. I honestly find it difficult to adapt and use modern controls when I know how to do the classic inputs. Almost like I'm playing a fighting game for the first time just with a difficult control scheme. I'll most likely stick with classic even if it meant I don't get those quicker frames or reactions that modern provides
So what happens with distance? There are certain moves, like JP's moves, that depending on the strength of the input it travels a different distance. Since modern controls don't have light, med, and heavy attacks how does it decide what distance to shoot the move? Does it track the opponent?
his fireballs are fine, as his command grab as there is only 1 version of each. For his spikes you need to do it via proper command: down down attack button and can get all 3 distance. The actual problem with Modern JP is that his down forward HP is NOT available and cannot be done via manual controls as it shares command with his low fireball attack. This is critically flawed as Hard punch version of striborg is an absolute must to his combos.
The best part of modern controls as a new player, is that I don’t have to worry so much about combos and execution and I can focus on learning footsies and fundamentals first instead.
if you mash the autocombo in that situation and they block, Luke only does crLK > crLP, but if they get hit by any of the moves, the full autocombo will come out (crLK > crLP > EX special). So no matter what the opponent does, the outcome will always be on your favour (they block and you're safe, or they get hit and you get a combo). This was a vid about the demo version of the game (only Luke and Ryu) and also a Luke specific thing, so I don't know if stuff changed in the full game.
@@allieboy181 if you just input the string manually, you will do the ex special when they're blocking so you can get punished really hard. You have to do crLK > crLP, visually confirm that the they got hit, and then do the special.
Yeah its just as the other guy said, on auto combo the combo move stops when they block, but on manual if you do the full combo by accident while they block you get countered pretty roughly
I think to limit modern controls they should only allow it up to Gold. That way if someone who's got to Gold with with modern controls wants to go higher, they can be motivated to learn classic controls.
Modern controls are designed for mostly 2 kind of players : casual and disabled. It wouldn't be faire to limit the second ones... By the way, i'm actually Gold **** with E. Honda, and I think I've never played against anybody using Modern, either in Ranked or Casual...
Modern controls felt weird to me in the demo and didn't really jive with me. I do like how modern opens up the game to new players, but it will be interesting to see how viable it actually is once the game comes out. If people can have fun, that's all that matters. I can see why people are a bit worried about modern being the "meta" way to play in competitive though
As a smash player I am interested but idk if these controls hinders combo potential, like i don’t want to do automatic combos and do the same basic thing over and over, I’m willing to take my time and learn, the only reason I want the modern is because I don’t want to get an arcade stick to get better at the inputs…
As a solely Mortal Kombat player with dial combos who's never really played SF and doesn't understand links and such, modern controls are such a massive win. It plays much more like MK in that specials are a direction plus button when in MK it's a motion like DF2 (down forward 2) and in SF6 a special can be F2 (forward 2) which allows it to make more sense in my brain. I was able to play and have fun in the open beta because it didn't feel like I could only do pokes and normals as opposed to other SF games I've tried and quit pretty quickly. I'm actually considering getting the game now because of modern controls. I know that'll probably get hate and "omg git gud scrub" comments, but I think it was a great idea by Capcom.
I mean... Tbh, I was introduced to Street fighter as a franchise in Street Fighter 4. And honestly no matter how hard I tried, anything more then a normal canceled into a special or a super was beyond my realm of capability. I can not link my normals. But anyhow, even I think having two control schemes in a fighting game is a questionable decision. Especially when things like reactions are obscenely easier on "modern" controls. P.S: SF is so difficult for me to play but I took to Tekken just fine? It's so weird.
Tekken doesn't require linking, and USF4 has like no input buffering to my knowledge. In SFV it has 5 (or 8?) buffer frames which makes it much easier to link normals.
How do you choose the strengths of your specials? Like I play Guile. Would I just have to give up on being able to do a fast vs slow sonic boom? That sounds nearly unplayable
You can still do motion input for some of your special. Guile default to light boom if you use the SP button, but if you charge back then forward with the H attack button, you can get the fast boom (and it would not suffer the 20% damage penalty). Same with Blade and Flash Kick. Not every special can be done with motion input in modern though. Ryu's Tatsu and High Blade Kick overlaps with the motion input of Fireball and Hashogeki, so you can only do the SP and OD version for those two kick specials. Meaning Ryu is stuck with Medium and OD version of Tatsu and High Blade Kick with Modern control.
You potentially have to play in a totally different way against players with modern control. Basically learn how to abuse the enemies autocombos, etc.. It's not well designed in my opinion
Capcom design Modern Control to be: *A Easy Way To Learn For New Players, Not To Be Equal To Classic Control.* Without those limitation Modern Control is literally Cheating.
"Princess Controls" will become the only available controls anyway. Capcom wants to get rid of Classic since the new generation can't be bothered to "learn" stuff and "hone" skills.
The problem I feel is that modern controls asks very different things from the game and its' players. Like if a character has a super that's an insane anti-air but only if you use modern controls to react, how do you even balance that? Do you change what super you're allowed to do with modern controls? Do you make the super unusuable for classic? What about characters who have small gaps in their pressure? Should they be balanced with the idea people won't be able to trivially DP 1 frame between their moves? As long as modern is viable, it seems clear that the way they can balance is either by actively punishing people for playing classic, or by fucking over everyone who's practicing on modern by changing/removing what you're allowed to do. Both of which seem fucked. I'm okay with games which use simplified control schemes, but I think I hate the idea of trying to have them co-exist in a game where they are both potentially competitively viable. In this instance, since SF6 does not actually take big steps to accomodate for the meaningful differences created by modern, it seems like it should be (like in other games), the mode used to drastically lower the barrier to entry, while not being the mode of choice for people spending 1000+ hours grinding the game.
I cannot wrap my head around Modern Controls. If I was just starting with fighting games sure its a great place to start, but I can do SPDs and pretzels about 90% on stick so its just odd for me trying MC at this point. Also, playing multiple characters and having to remember to hold down assist to get a certain move I normally always have access to with one button is extra mental stack. So Modern can make some things harder like two buttons for a cMP in some cases. Not to mention its not universal across characters. Sure instant 100% Supers are good, but if I see a clear punish I am going to combo as optimally as possible INTO the Super from another button unless it is a sure kill on its own. Classic is for me and if it means some online losses to a Modern user here and there its fine, I am not a tournament player anyway and can live with it.
I agree with your points on one button supers. Sure, it will make a raw super punish easier but as luke right now as a street fighter newbie on classic, I can just EX qcb P into any super for a punish just fine by buffering the input in my recovery animations. So outside of whiff punishes at range I don't see it being too powerful compared
Sf6 was my first traditional fighter since mkx and my first street fighter ever, went straight into classic controls and resisted the temptation of modern. No regrets, I’m having a great time.
as a relatively "new fighting game player" (3 years and counting, experience in tekken 7, GG-ST and some XrD, some DBFZ, some GBFVS, very little SF5), i see literally no reason to not play Modern controls, they look WAY STRONGER than classic, with way more practically advantages and the option to use some "classic" tools (like QCF+L to fireball/specials with no dmg penalty), yeah you lose "some normals" (and depends on each character) but u gain A LOT OF RELEVANT ADVANTAGES like instant specials and supers and even option select? that pretty mental to me at least, i would like to hear way more veterans opinions on the matter honestly
This all inclusive stuff is just ruining the world for me. I get trying to make things accessible for people that can't shove out the money for sticks and hitboxes but it's that ease of access thing in mind that ruins the die-hard fan base. And that's the fanbase that keeps these genre's alive.
What perplexes me about the situation is what they require (and don't require) for supers on Classic. They are enforcing that you're doing the full motion twice, but also allowing you to press only one button. (In fact they require one button, if you press 3 you get EX. WTF?) In SF4 and xT you were able to spam Down, Down-Forward (or Down, Down-Back) then only press Forward (or Back) with the attack buttons when you wanted to trigger the Super. I'd really like the options to enable SF4 style shortcuts on Supers (and also require 3 buttons.) The shortcuts will help bridge the gap on modern reactions because you can just sit crouched and buffer the motion w/o moving; unlike now where you have to do squats forward or backward. Requiring 3 buttons will also be nice because when you're buffering you can still easily select if you want Special, EX, or Super.
Yeah, I dont know why they made Supers harder to do in SF6 (5 directions compared to 4 in SFV). Is it an oversight? Did they want to nerf reaction supers for some idiotic reason (but then Modern mode can just do them with 1 button). It's weird.
I'm a long time keyboard and hitbox player. (Since Alpha 2 on GGPO.) I highly doubt this has anything to do with nerfing hitbox. If anything, I remember people complaining about the fact that players could sit crouched and buffer supers in SF4. This is at a time 99.99% of the discussion was about arcade sticks and most people I played with were amazed I could even play on keyboard. Honestly though I wouldn't be surprised if this was just an oversight. For as many things you can say are nerfs or actions to make the game harder and more precise, there are many many more decisions on making the game more accessible and easier (which leads to inputs being more fuzzy).
The modern controls simplifies the game for newbies like me who finds fighting games hard and daunting to get into. I can focus more on my spacing and combos instead of practicing hard complicated inputs over and over until it’s precise. It’s a win and introduces more new players to the genre who are scared of getting into fighting games because of the high skill learning curve
However, it ruins the competitive integrity of the game. Also with how effective wiff punishing is with modern controls, it makes it even easier to wipe new players. Having inputs are also important for balance reasons, having moves being able to come out in one frame changes the balance of the game.
I was used to 6 button inputs (but im garbage at fighting games) then i tried modern controls extensively today and i was able to do stuff i never was able to do before
@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 Because they're easier and faster. The tradeoff should be that they're weaker and not as versatile. Which is intended, but as you can see, can be worked around. And that simply should not be the case.
@@saeno7258 oh, I get not wanting it to turn the other control obsolete, but the other guy wanted it to be objectively WORSE than Classic, which is the part that I don't get. Why can't they both be equally good?
Does SF6 have an option like MK11 in which I have easier directional inputs? MK11 was the only FG I played since I always had issues with the controls of typical FGs with the whole directional fiesta u have to input for special moves, it always annoyed me even when I rly wanted into some games because of some chars that looked rly interesting to me. Modern Controls in SF6 however look strange since you lose moves from it and dmg with using assist. And I dont know which chars rly suffer from it, I am thinking about getting SF6 just because of JP, since I rly like wizards, he being more like an MK char than a typical SF char and most importantly, his japanese voice is Escanor... well and Juri, Manon and Cammy look interesting too, bc of reasons.
i have a feeling they should update modern controls to remove 100% optimal option-select combos, make autocombos always continue regardless of block/hit, add extra start up frames to remove stuff like instant supers to match classic controls timing, but then also remove the damage penalty. This is all starting to look less about accessibility for newbies and more just about a new control scheme. That itself isn't bad, but to deviate from SF's DNA will get pretty weird. Motion vs charge aren't just arbitrary directional inputs. They actually have important details for SF's gameplay.
Capcom design Modern Control to be: *A Easy Way To Learn For New Players, Not To Be Equal To Classic Control* Your "fixes" make Modern Control literally Cheating.
Tbh i think gbfv did a really good job at balancing this out. Having longer cooldowns on easy inputs really helped with the meta since there were some moves that were especially vital to charas and they had to make that decision. Tbh, as someone who has never played sf, all of my previous games were anime games and the closest thing i played was gbfv, i feel like easy input should take more meter or sth in this game since that seems like the equivalent.
@@liquidjackson7172 Yeah, it wont help if there is an absolute gap in fundamentals, nothing will, modern or classic or otherwise. But i think making the ez inputs use more meter would help to incentivize newer players to experiment with motion controls more and incentivize them to use it. Also, one of the biggest strengths of modern inputs is the ability to get counterhits a lot more consistently since ur reacting faster, which does more damage anyway. Just so we are clear, im not proposing a net increase to meter to everything they do, just when u use ez inputs.
@@garethcf1016 I hear you there. If there’s no work around to what you proposed, I’d say to tax the EZ inputs even more with repeat uses. Say they press the button multiple times in a row. Things like that. At the very least, I’m happy that they taxed the overall damage.
The super button with classic controls would be pretty neat, I like being able to pick light/medium/heavy kick/punch with classic but I'm just too shit to input any super attacks
Honestly feels like removing the execution from fighting games in the equivalent of removing natural physical differences in people who fight (height, strength, endurance, etc). Takes the human element out of choking under pressure and the satisfaction of knowing you accomplished something with the effort you put in. Should be removed from tournament play imo. The pros will adapt to it either way. I don’t think having them will make for a better game to watch. Too early to really call so I guess we’ll see
Exactly. I am not an advocate of 'Harder game is a better game' but I feel its okay to have easy combos which are reliable and harder combos which are a little less consistent etc. Adds an element of choice to the game, and more diverse playstyles Motion inputs are a contentious point, since I feel they are a relic but one which provides some interesting mechanical quirks to playing fighting games which I enjoy. Luckily I can still play classic and I am not competitive so I do not care if people are playing modern against me for a win, I just find classic controls more fun and engaging
Is the dynamic not going to be available in online play? I just learned about it in the demo. Ai assist, hold for L M or H combo. Grabs and supers are auto too I think.
Great vid - I plan on getting back into SF and was wondering if I should stick to classic or modern. Will give Modern a shot! (I can imagine graplers like Zangief, who have to input these obnoxious circle motions just to get a command grab, will be BUFFED with modern)
never noticed this, but is the hadou-ken actually two hands holding a fireball? When it breaks it looks like there are dark blue hands that were holding and moving the fireball the whole time...
the hands were in street fighter 2, they just added them back in 6, you can also see them as the fireball is moving. The "fireball" is more like a flying punch, and apparently is only a little warm.
One thing I'm curious about is, the "combo assist" mode lets you do combos that are otherwise not available to Modern controls, but that I've heard are not the best combos out there to be doing. I'm curious as to how much ability you have to break _out_ of those auto-combos midstream, and what benefit that could offer. Like say a basic auto-combo is "holdR2+LLLLL" and that does a full string, but all at reduced damage and maybe it's not the most efficient outcome. But would you have the option to, say, "holdR2+LL, _drop_ R2,M,H,Special,Super," basically leave behind the auto combo after the first couple of hits land and shift into the combo that a pro would be doing using Classic controls? Or would the control mechanics cause lag that would prevent that combo from working? If the combo would work, would the entire thing be at reduced DPS, or would only the portion that as an auto be reduced, and the manual inputs would be at normal damage?
you can break the combos mid stream at any point and change them up or even extend them if you want, also yes if you do the motion input for a move mid combo it does the full damage the 20% only applies when you use the special button for that move
@@blinx_x9925 So that will be the next step for RUclipsr tutorials, a list of different combo options to break out of the auto-combos in ways that would not otherwise be accessible in Modern mode, but provide significant added value.
@@timogul yes most likely, the other big factor to find out is which characters are best with modern the answer will most likely be the grapplers and possibly marisa
I think modern control players are gonna wipe the floor with classic control players. I’m not saying this is necessarily a good thing, but modern controls are incredibly intuitive and make everything way faster. Frames are frames and in the end, whoever can get their attack out in fewer frames is gonna have a huge advantage. Yes, some moves do less damage, but you can do them way more frequently to make up for that.
doesn't matter how easy the controls are, ultimately its up to who can control the distance, get their pokes in, whiff punishes, etc making the executions easier doesn't change the core game
@@jeffmx5923 he destroyed everybody on the beta who used modern controls stop it, executions don't make you a good player, in street fighter v it was people at silver work who could do better combos than me but could never beat me on my way to diamond, its more to the game than inputs
@Eclisis quarter circle + punch for hadoken vs a single button. Single button supers. These make a difference and will drop the skill ceiling for the game since now instead of practicing the inputs and making it consistent, u just hit a single button and a direction and there's your special. A nerf to damage won't make much a difference if u can more consistently hit specials
@@jeffmx5923 no they don't, you have to effectively use the moves while playing, would help somebody who knows how to play the game already use a character they don't normally use absolutely, what's wrong with that, it's still a game of chess, why don't use modern controls and play me tomorrow when they came drops, I'll smash you
I'm Tekken player not a street fighter player so I don't know how good modern controls are going to be and I don't really have any way of knowing, but I can say that modern controls to me are like automatic transmissions on a motorcycle, it literally takes the way the thing that makes it fun
Imagine your B&B combo always landing by mashing one button, giving JUST as good damage as it would if you were doing the combo regularly, and always being safe on block, therefore there's no risk to mindlessly mashing. In addition, your power-crushes, parries, and unblockables are all only one frame to start up. That's modern controls. 💀
I personally don't like modern controls. It should not replace the traditional direction based controls and commands. It should PURELY serve as training wheels for new players, so that they can work their way to getting good at the traditional way. I don't like Fighting Games being made easier because a big part of the experience of playing a fighting game is the learning curb to execution and timing. It takes away from that experience when you water things down to Anime brawler level simplicity.
The only way I see to fix imbalances in the control schemes is to BUFF CLASSIC CONTROLS. You can't yank back hard on Modern at this stage, lest Capcom is attacking the very thing they want newbies (and more) to embrace. Even worse, I want to say CLASSIC = 6 BUTTONS, not 8 buttons. So how can we make 6 button Classic stand up to Modern? Well, how about not locking Drive Impact to HP+HK? If I could DI using LK+MP or LK+HP, I can more quickly respond to situations like Modern can. How about Classic being able to use a level 1 super art using LK+HP+Direction? If I could quickly level 1 when in BurnOut, I would feel much stronger. How about LP+HK is a shortcut to the Special button that allows for quick reversal DPs, SPDs, and more? There's lots of possibilities here other than "Classic controls now means choosing to be disadvantaged".
I'm going to try both. End of the day I'm glad because my kids will be able to play street fighter without getting frustrated. They're 8 and 6, and their uncle loves fighting games. Thus will be a great way for them to connect with their uncle.
Damn, I agree modern definitely seems like it has some competitive edge, particularly with the moveset changes not being equal across the board. God i really don't like it or want to learn it though lmao. Edit: getting massive GBVS instant anti air DP ptsd
@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 I mean I've been using classic in the demo, but unfortunately I'm not the type to overlook something if there's a good competitive reason to use it lol
@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 Imagine a Guile player being able to do antiair flash kicks 100% of the time...yeah for some characters this isnt going to be fun to fight against
In my experience Modern control luke fits me like a glove lol. Despite losing a few moves just doing his combos feels soo good. And It's been a while since I played a street fighter game
Same man. Even Ryu. I’m consistently hitting 40-60% hit combos. It all comes down to fundamentals and baiting if you go modern. Good trade off if you ask me
I think that as long as there is an option not to get matched with Modern control players as a Classic player it's completely fine. Competitive players/tournaments will have to figure out what they do tho.
I really don't think this is going to happen, as modern control players would probably not be able to find as many matches. Unless the majority decides to use it, than it would be the other way around, unless you just give in and disable this option. This is definitely gonna be in discussion once the game launches and we get to see the first tournaments.
"Modernizing" controls are long overdue. When you think about the evolution of gaming in general, you think the about the ability to do way more interesting things therefore hooking new and old players alike. Trying to stick with dinosaur mechanics is counterintuitive to building and evolving more and more interesting gaming, especially if your game is going to die because no one wants to play an overly complex game. Simplifying controls is one of the longest overdue changes necessary to gaming.
This is my first street fighter thanks to modern controls and I’m absolutely loving it but after playing the beta some characters are still incredibly hard to play like the drinking kicking guy who I wanted to main but It was incredibly hard to even try to learn him. I love the game but I hope I’m not forced to play as easy characters like Luke and the other guy in the demo. I’m sure if I train with the character for 3 years I should be able to get used to them like I did with Shang Tsung in MK11
Don’t let beta discourage you! The full release game will include an incredible amount of tools to teach new players how to learn their character. Characters that you think are hard are easy to others and vice versa. Luke will be a difficult character to master since a majority of his combos are very timing centered which can be incredibly difficult for players.
If modern controls end up being superior to classic controls, the game is competitively finished. Watching tournaments where there's a lot of focus on reacting with one button DPs to things constantly, and with the neutral being simplified because of lack of buttons, would make for a pretty boring and uninspiring experience. I can only imagine how utterly boring GG or MVC would play like if their version of Modern controls had been superior to the normal scheme... I don't believe Capcom would let it reach that state - they would either nerf the Modern controls or ban them from their own tournaments if it comes to it. But let's see. It's a bit preemptive to call it either way.
They don't give a damn about the tournaments. They only want as many people to buy their game as possible, which means attracting noobs, which then means empowering those noobs so they commit to the purchase.
@@watchmesquatch You'd be surprised how important a pro scene is in maintaining interest in a game. There's a reason everyone wants their game to be an ESport
@@watchmesquatch But noobs will buy your game whether Modern controls are allowed in tournaments or not, though. On the other hand, having a strong competitive scene is like 24/7 hours marketing and interest in your game. There's a reason they're sinking 2 mil into the prize pool this year.
Dunno, i didn't watch the tourney for how they input their move... But for their decision making... That's the clutch I'm looking for... So it doesn't matter if the control is modern or classic... Bcoz decision making is not on thr controller sidr but on the individual... So what if u use classic but if u made terrible choice the match won't be enjoyable
Read through most of the comments - there's a few things not covered in the video that I want to clear up:
You still have to charge to do charge moves in modern (which doesn't make it too useful in this case)
The auto hitconfirms don't exist for every autocombo, and only some of them are useful. The Luke example is easily the best one in the demo. 2nd best would probably be Ryu's medium auto combo which lets you auto hitconfirm ex palm into level 2 super. The rest in the demo aren't useful imo.
The option select is doable with classic controls, just in a different way using negative edge, wouldn't surprise me if other modern exclusive tech developed though.
Capcom said they are allowing Modern Controls for CPT, so I doubt there will be a ban lol. Dynamic controls are banned though.
Pretty sure 10% of these comments are from people not actually watching the video and just based off the title alone lol... so if you are going to comment please at least watch the video omg. I made this mostly so you guys can learn how to fight players using modern controls (exploit lack of moves, etc.) or learn how to use, not trying to suggest modern controls will magically make bad players into pros and it's the death of street fighter as we know it lol. There is so much more depth / dimensions to what makes a top player besides the control scheme they use. Still unsure if modern controls should be strong but we shall see I suppose
The concept of modern controls still works the same way with all of the characters and their auto combo into supers. Regardless, you're still handicapped on modern and there's no way pro players will switch over to it from classic.
Why are you shilling this so hard?
@@ultraman498 Because it's his personal opinion and his right to speak it here. Any more dumb questions you want to "shill" out?
My only concern is that there's ever even a chance of modern controls being preferable to classic in a competitive sense. Modern actively disengages from aspects that make fighting games fighting games and it would depress me to see that become a contender for "the way to play"
@@BreadBeardFGC Bro you have nothing to worry about. Difficult execution isn't going away. Some pros may pick up modern but I guarantee you most wont. Also stating modern actively disengages from aspects of fighting games is definitely an overreaction. Stop dooming and start (sonic) booming..... sorry that was a dumb joke
People are talking a lot about the 1 button supers, but I really feel like it's the auto hit confirms that are the bigger problem. You never drop your combo and you never do an unsafe move on block. Like, getting perfect jab->uppercut confirms are kinda insane. I feel like modern controls would be fine if they just always did the full combo.
Yeah. I mean if someone is mashing into my block, I would expect it to be ending with something punishable to literally punish a mindless mashing player. Even if the first button is safe and they could choose to stop and reset, it just repeating button 1 until a hit lands is wild.
A lot of players playing modern will lose to fairly basic stuff anyways so it won't matter for them, I just hope it won't be good enough to change the tournament scene too severely
Not sure why my previous comment got removed for spreading false info talking about how modern controls adapt their combos to be more optimal on punish counter automatically. Here's the video from animeilluminati showing an example of it. Same example I mentioned. st. LK punish counter will do EX donkey on punish counter and hurricane on normal hit.
ruclips.net/video/NgyCzpNozKk/видео.html
@@chaselewis5372 That just seems like the game playing for you and shouldn't be allowed in tournaments.
@@chaselewis5372 that video has been shown to be inaccurate. numerous people have tested it and none have been able to replicate what happened in that video
@@zeywop yep, you are right! At least from my experience with the demo, it does not change the follow up move based on hit. Regardless it always goes for the same combo.
Hitbox/Keyboard/Mixbox/Fightbox/Snackbox: "Psst. Hey, guys. You want 2-button supers? Here you go."
Capcom: "rEeEeEeHh!!" => banning all ABCs
Also Capcom: "You guys want 1-button supers?"
Difference is Capcom made them available to everyone
You joke, but 1 button supers are already possible through the custom controller edit menu.
@@thesaltmerchant4564 1. Two different things are different. Amazing you figured that out.
2. Hitbox or other ABCs are available to everyone as well. Use any keyboard for the same effect.
3. Making 1-button supers/dps available to everyone does not explain why you would want 2-button supers/dps banned.
@@thesaltmerchant4564 Hitbox is avaliable to everyone. They have a website and everything. If you're gonna cry, make it make sense.
“Available to everyone” - not when you slap a price on it. Then it’s P2W.
FYI, modern autocombos generally DO comeout on block, like Luke's mp autocombo. He blows meter and does a punishable move if you don't confirm. I'm not sure why his light punch one doesn't come out on block, but that's not a big deal, since like you said, it's easy to confirm on classic controls, too. But, this seems to be the exception, not the rule. I see people below who think autocombos autoconfirm, but they don't.
It's not possible to confirm a single cr.lp like the auto combo allows. It just doesn't make sense. Even if his cr.lp is minus so he's losing his turn it's still a big deal.
You're wrong, bud. It does auto confirm off lows.
Oh... I really like your animations, didn't know you play fighting games 💜
damn i was hoping that modern controls would be like an easy mode where you dont get everything but its easier to play, and the good ol keypad input stick n buttons would still be optimal, idk how to feel about this
Yea… I’m still not sure how I feel about this. I think it’s cool for newcomers, but also as a competitive player I’d hate to be forced to use modern controls.
I doubt that will be the case though, and I think 90%+ of pros will be using classic at least to start with. I’m still gonna train modern on the side though just in case
Yeah, I'm a newcomer and I'm having fun with modern controls playing teh Demo, but it does take a lot of execution away, which has been a part of the legacy of fighting games. Some moves are balanced around this.
But on the other hand, it removes the gap from people like me that had always struggled with motion inputs during combos, especially the supers. You still need great fundamentals and be good at reading and mind games in general. Another good aspect, imo, is that it makes easier to transition from learning one character to another, as the controls are now unified this way. And motivates me to use different archetypes that I never felt comfortable with, like grapplers and charge characters.
I was afraid Modern Controls would be very limiting, but I was surprised by the amount of freedom and control you still have in doing many different stuff.
@@Diaphone my experience with DNF duel makes me dislike this scheme as a whole. I too would have preferred it just be a way people get into the game and then eventually learn classic, but it’s looking like some characters it won’t really matter all that much!
And that is exactly my problem with that control scheme. Its a dumbing down. And its not good.
@@celuiquipeut6527 did you know not everyone has an arcade stick and has been playing for years? New players are gonna look at classic and modern and they'll pick modern because its not cancerous on a controller.
I've been playing a lot of GBFV since GGST servers have been sucking. I wasn't critical of one button specials, but I take it all back. That shit is wild. You can't do anything fake if you have an invincible reversal. It really doesnt take long to train your brain to do the manual input for combos when you want dmg and the special button for instant stuff.
Agreed. You can easily separate them as two moves in your head. I thought the damage nerf would be across the board, now I hear the user has the CHOICE of which input to use for the special even when already in Modern mode. This is whack.
see you understand! People want to do fake stuff or make poor choices and expect to be saved cause the optimal punishes are execution heavy. People are scared and gaslighting like a boss when all these long time FGC players know there are combo's that only classic can do cause they get specials with 4 different strengths where as modern only gets 2.
don't forget being able to instantly use charge moves, as those moves are traditionally balanced around the fact that you tend to be a sitting duck. It's going to be real interesting to see how strong charge characters are in this game
@@nekoraver6179 I think you misunderstood the issue here.
Fake stuff and poor choices are two very separate things.
Most if not all decent players will go for « fake stuff » from time to time. It’s all about 1) keeping your opponent on their toes and forcing them to think 2) checking their knowledge about the match-up and potentially abusing something they are not aware of 3) mixing it up, reseting pressure and probably much more than I don’t know about.
This has nothing to do with execution. The thing about modern control is that it has so many option selects, players will be able to automatically beat out some options without having to do anything, leading to simplified decision making for both players (just like the neutral jump punish during fireball spam shown in the video)
There’s also the fact that you’ll be able to react much faster (even a few frames is a big deal) with special moves, it’s gonna make some stuff weaker, some stuff stronger. People will learn, people will adapt, but it’s a potentially big change, so it’s understandable that some are weary of the impact it is going to have.
Yea if I didn’t play Gbvs I wouldn’t understand how good this is. We all thought ez inputs were bad but then kazunoko was first to make master rank only using easy inputs lol
I played the second beta and from what I can recall people that played on Modern controls fell into one of these two categories: they had very good fundamentals or they were actually trying the game for the first time. It seems that it will be quite strong at the start, but the rest relies on the individual player's abilities so the veterans might be able to catch up on it.
I’m legit new to SF because I never wanted to learn 6 buttons but SF 6 made me a fan I’m here for the long run and one of my homies plays it faithfully anyways I was on the beta playing modern controls and loved it but now I’m practicing the classic controls because I wanna get good with them and I gotta say definitely a great fighting game and I see why there is so much love for it
@@ZandoZone I know I am late on this conversation...but it's good that you are learning Modern AND Classic.
Overall , Modern and Classic are not inherenly better or bad , it really depends on the character. Just like the video showed , Luke looses basically nothing with Modern Control , but I dare say the same wouldn't be true for the likes of Kimberly or Juri.
@@phantasosxgames8488that’s what the problem I’ve been saying. I don’t hate modern at all but there are some characters who play so differently because of modern controls. Gief becomes more of a threat with modern than classic
Man as a low-end player who has put in hours learning and relearning characters just to not whiff this is a slap in the face Someone can pick it up and spam the specials. whats the point in classic .its dumb and going to be overtaken soon😢
@@risen1726 because Modern eats away half of the moveset.
It doesn't matter if a low-end player can spam hadoukens with one button , when they face a pro , the end result is the Pro doing a Perfect K.O because they do a series of combos using normal attack.
It's needs specific characters like Luke , that lost only 4 moves , to be a strong option.
I don't like that they don't really have a strong downside, it's pretty much with some chars alot better to pick modern over classic and that shouldn't be like that with any char
You are very WRONG. Classic is the stronger controls. Modern Controls has weaknesses like less normals, damage, combos, while benefiting from easier inputs like easier dps and easier faster supers.
@@CrystalMang0 your statement makes no sense
@@CrystalMang0 have you heard of motion?
@@CrystalMang0 my guy over here spreading misinformation. If you do the motion input, you don’t lose out on damage. The debate is losing 3 normals for frame 1 reversal supers (which does limit combo routes depending if your character uses the 3 missing normals for certain combo routes), the less damage debate has been long debunked, atleast for the specials you can manually input. For Luke, that’s everything cept 236K. The AI auto hit confirming depending on the situation is also pretty disgusting too, as mentioned in the video.
@@R_C32 being able to casually super ,anti air, or EX on reaction is HUGE and worth whatever loss there currently is. just ma @xzMango5 Being able to casually super ,anti air, or EX on reaction is HUGE and worth whatever. Whoever is winning is simply going to sit there with meter and let you approach lol
This is going to be really interesting to see with newly created characters like Jamie if they're made with modern controls in mind.
Someone said that in the beta Jamie couldn't raw drink, that's potentially a big deal with so much of his kit locked behind his drink level.
Idk how much thought capcom putting into this tbh considering how some characters are missing a lot more than others
@@Diaphone eh with having to simplify controls they had to take out something somewhere. There aren't many fighting games that use five buttons in the first place for basic attacks
Just to make sure I understand correctly: Can you still use the classic controls when you chose modern ?
I'm asking because of what Diaphone say at the end regarding the damage nerf only affecting on easy inputs.
Can you still do motion control in modern control scheme ?
@@yoannsoh4009 yea it remaps the buttons and makes a shortcut button, but you can still enter in most to all quarter circles.
Thank you for the in-depth analysis of Modern Controls Diaphone. Your videos are great and educational. Keep it up!
So I knew that the auto combo would come out on hit, but not coming out on block. Wiffing is perfectly understandable, but on block it should be up to the attacker to not be mashing their auto string to avoid blowing themselves up for bad offense, just 2 cents!
On block, most autocombos DO come out. For some reason Luke's light autocombo is different, but his other ones DO come out on hit or block. His medium autocombo, for example, will make him do ex flash knuckle on block if you just mash it without confirming (very punishable).
@@Emezie This is good to hear then. I wonder if its intended or is an oversight
@@Emezie thank you very much!
I hadn't known about the automatic hit-confirms until recently. This probably puts modern controls over the edge and into competitive territory. Also I don't like it as it removes the need for a skill that isn't execution.
Yeah agreed. They are reducing THE awareness skill from previous games with that, imo. Therefore the game might become 95% about neutral and RPS.
Don't know it I like it either... will see...
@@yoannsoh4009 Definitely gonna 1 and done every modern player. Don't care either.
@@watchmesquatch unless they one and done you :-) only doing rising uppercut and supers on reaction.
😅 This game about to be funny
@@watchmesquatch game isn’t even out and you already crying such a typical fgc scrub behaviour
I think a better way to handle modern controls would be to simplify some of the motion inputs. The new Idol Showdown removes DP for double crouch maybe doing things like this will make the game more approachable. Obviously with just a bit of practice you can DP with ease but for some new players it might help them along.
I don't know why tf they didn't do this. I'm a new player and honestly have no issue with the original controls apart from the god awful directional inputs. Can't see why it can't be simpler like MKX where its just left right, down right, down back etc as opposed to including the diagonal. Feel like it forces use of the analogue which I'm so bad with!
@@eggsandwich5278 Nearly everyone playing on a controller play with the d-pad and not the analogue. Just go from a button to another by rolling your thumb it ain't that hard. You can even slide it if you prefer.
@dylanlerian5960 thats definitely not true maybe more experienced players might but most try to use analog sticks on controller
Modern maynot have every more or max damage move.... but it's faster and SUPER consistent. Why risk a move for slight more damage, when modern has no risk and can just spam it over and over
At a certain level, you threre's nothing you can spam "over and over", SF is about mind games, set-ups etc, and for good/very good players, being optimal is the name of the game, you have 0 reason to sacrifice full damage potential and optimal combo routes for each situation just for a bit of ease of execution, which isn't even a concern at that level of play, seasoned players all have their execution on point... being gimmicky/flowcharting may get you out the lower ranks, but you won't go that far... actually, I can't remember having played online against anyone using classic... which may pretty much mean that it's not that viable...
i think execution is part of fighting games so if you remove that then that removes alot of competitive difference, tourneys or ranked you get nervous you get the jitters thats part of the environment, you can misinput, mistime or miss confirms. Modern removes all of that and it kinda just makes it --- excuse my french, a party game.
I feel like every discussion on this subject going forward is going to boil down to whether they should be balanced to be an equal alternative to Classic or an inferior "Training Wheels" mode that prepares somebody for Classic. Personally I think it should be the latter, as it's going to take a lot of downsides to convince pros that the consistency of Modern isn't worth it.
The ideal world would be that both modes to be perfect balanced, or very close to it. So you can choose, like you choose a character to main/play. But I agree this can be very hard and one will be favored to another.
@@binho2224 That is really not ideal. If Modern is balanced then what's the pay off for actually trying? Classic is obejctively more difficult and has more depth to it.
It should be training wheels/for fun and that's it.
@@Lobster222 That's what "balance" means. What you're describing is "modern controls being better," not "balanced". If you have to ask "what's the pay off for actually trying", then clearly you aren't describing a system where Classic and Modern were actually balanced.
And, there already ARE positives to Classic controls. The damage and complete movelist are a big positive. Like, Classic supers do a noticeable chunk less than Modern supers.
what convince is winning, if they lose a lot to modern players ,they gonna switch it
There are already notable drawbacks like with Ryu where you're missing pretty much half your movelist, meanwhile for Luke you're missing his forward which is one of his best pokes and his roundhouse which has insane range and has a disjointed hitbox. You also don't have the opportunity for more damaging and optimized combos nor the freedom of choosing a combo route should you choose Modern controls. Meaning that something like a Ryu short > donkey kick hitconfirm from Modern could be made up in damage through combos from Classic.
If they nerf it too much then it'll end up like T7's assist system where it's just so shit that it's not worth using even if it has shortcut inputs for some moves.
I'm new to SF (but i've played other FG's) and I don't quite get your example of using Modern Control supers to whiff punish or catch people on reaction: the actual frame data of the super isn't any different in Modern, right? So what actually makes Modern Controls so much easier to use Supers as a punish like that? Is it just the additional time it takes to do the quarter circle or DP motion compares to a single direction makes that reaction harder to do?
It takes over 10f to do a raw super in neutral the old fashioned way. Reacting with super vs drive rush is basically impossible. 1f with modern control.
Yes, the time it takes to do inputs is *absolutely* traditionally considered in how a special is balanced. Not just that it takes time but that it takes a moment longer for your brain to go "oh yeah do the DP motion" unless you're explicitly thinking about them jumping. It's true for everything, but it's even *more* true for stuff like 360 motions where the only way to get them out rather than just jumping is to buffer them with another move. By doing it in one button you can just do it in neutral and do it *way* faster.
IDK why people aren't more upset about this.
I feel that the most "broken" thing in modern controls is that the player still has the option to do motion inputs for a lot of commands for extra damage and has one button dp's and supers (the player can react a lot faster compared with a classic controller scheme). For players with the same skill level this MC scheme might be an advantage. I hope I'm wrong about this.
No, you're not wrong. Objectively speaking, a person whose fast on Classic Controls will be a God on Modern controls. MC was made for chumps.
And as the old addage goes "if you can't beat them, join them." Which is where originality, and skills go to die. I've discovered so many new combos for different situations just by f ucking up the listed moves. It's sad because scrubs will lose out on that experience.
Very good video explaining the subject and the editing was on point. Good stuff!
I agree that its really gonna be a per-character basis. There's gonna be someone who loses a key poke or some specific thing about a special or combo link that holds them back, but I'm especially excited to see some grapplers in Modern mode. If you can raw standing 720 without using some move to not jump, like Tager can with stylish in BB, that changes how you have to approach the matchup.
I am going to get SF6 because I'm a complete fighting game noob and it seems like a relatively good way to enjoy a fighting game without raging about how I suck doing quarter circles
For me GBVS and DNF are some of the only games that got this right. Everyone is using the same control scheme and there's an incentive to do manual inputs over easy inputs.
I thought the same. I don't like games where there's two available perspectives, for example third person and first person, all with advantages and drawbacks, the game should have one perspective and everything tailored to this one. The same goes for the control schemes and yes, GBVS combines that very good. They could leave the timer completely away when doing regular versions, their inputs aren't that hard after all...
i think MBTL did a good job too especially with the later added control options
i know this generation of people just want this like easy instant gratification, but I care to constantly improve at what I do and see my results through practicing and not just going on easy mode and pretending I’m good
After looking at Ryu and Luke in the Demo, I don't think the conversation will be about "you should always use modern / you should always use classic" but rather "which characters benefit / lose the most from modern / classic and is that trade-off worth it?"
In my ideal world, there will be a character that benefits a lot from classic but is also really hard to execute in that control scheme which could be really cool to see play out.
JP is that character
I just started playing sf6 and im really new to the fighting game genre so ive been playing luke on Modern. What i dont get is the hate messages i get even after i lose the matches about how p****y i am for playing the game on modern and i really dont get it. Is it really frowned upon that i enjoy the game more with easy inputs?
I think luke is supposed to be an example of a character who will be good with modern controls. Ryu, a classic character, has more drawbacks with the scheme. The game also forces you to play with Luke's style, and modern controls, in the story demo.
I'm curious if the pattern continues for the rest of the cast
Marisa with modern controls is a monster, I'm calling it now.
Interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure it will be like that. In one week after the game is released there will be Tier lists for each character in each control scheme. I'm sure of it.
@@nairdacnalbeli think the grapplers are going to be the big threat with modern
FYI you can toggle off modern controls for World Tour mode in the settings
@@blinx_x9925 1 button walk up SPD is impossible to convey properly. You're basically the level 8 cpu from every street fighter past. Gief and modern controls go together like peanut butter and jelly.
I assume I can choose between which type control of players I want to fight against right (just like in SFV I have the option to choose to fight opponents on Playstation or PC)?
this would be better.. i dont want to play against people with modern, its way to overtuned and strong
Thanks for making a positivie video on this. Many players seek to make me feel bad as a newbie becuase I can't get the consistency down for inputs.
I wish they would have just made one control scheme honestly, I'm basically new to sf but I don't wanna not have my full arsenal, so I'm going classic. Also I assume that it would be easier to switch to modern than switch to classic if the meta declares a victorious control scheme.
6:25 On keyboard during the demo i actually got fireball a lot trying to classic DP. That seriously fked me up. Its bad habits from faulty socd cleaning
As a new player I feel like modern controls are more welcoming for me, I tried gettin into SFV back When it launched and I remember being so overwhelmed by all the inputs. But I know that you need to practice a lot to get combos right but as a casual player I just want to Launch the games from time to time and just have fun playin the game instead of feeling lost because I dont practice that much and not having a chance to win because I dont. And it’s a easier way to play with friends that dont play the game at all to just launch it, then take modern controls and play with just a little bit of explaining
Which is fair & completely understandable as an accessibility thing. Most people's issues (like my own) come to the competitive scene.
@@zkaine7083 I feel like the best thing for them to do would be to have separate tournaments and ranked modes for modern and classic
@@Arrayment Exactly my thought as well.
Trying to make the switch to classic after a few days with modern as new player. Think you convinced me to stay with modern. Not used to fighting games with 6 buttons and now I can access with R2. You can also still do manual input for specials which is nice
Im curious, especially since you can still do specials with the classic inputs for full damage- thats never been my problem, but instant-supers sound SO GOOD. However, i cant know how drastically some characters will be affected by losing moves for a while still, and it could potentially screw muscle memory if one character is just trash without classic controls while another is basically only losing worthless moves by playing modern.
I’m a street fighter fan but it didn’t come to Xbox one so I played mortal Kombat X to 11 and now I finally play street fighter 6 and I realize, playing in classic takes longer to do specials like the upper cut. So I’m going to learn modern controls.
I wasn't aware that some characters had more missing moves than others. I'm convinced that tier list will be separated into modern and classic control versions of each character. So a modern control Zangief maybe rank higher on a tier list than the classic control version of Zangief for example.
Just because the special button doesn't let you get every special move because of lack of inputs doesn't mean you can't do the classic input yourself. I don't think you lose much of anything besides normals
I’m surprised this game doesn’t just actually tell us what to press without needing to know the code . In mortal kombat they tell you press square,triangle, etc . In this game it just shows fist and foot icons like wtf lol
With modern controlls and how they work, it feels like there will be two players playing a different game where different things are viable or even possible. That's a really wobbly base for a competetive game. I can only hope it will end up as a 'feel good gimmick' for casuals.
Thank you so much I was looking everywhere on how to use the enhanced moves
I'm still bummed that modern controls are most likely going to replace classic controls. I'm mediocre at fighting games but part of the fun of fighting games is the lab time you put in training mode will reward you almost all of the time and modern controls just skips over that with auto hit confirms. I understand not everyone has the free time to learn classic controls, but man.... it's going to take some time to accept this.
Im not even a fighting game try hard i played street fighter 4 to a rank most characters but that was my only street fighter and it took so much time in the combo training to get that good back then but this seems un fair and makes it mindless
A lot of Japanese players are already trying modern, Jiyuna has a video explaining it too.
I tried to play street fighter before, but I could never get the hang if the Controls but with this I think I can dive back into it
I gave modern controls a try to see how it goes and while the combos and strings in built are cool unfortunately my muscle memory kicks in with classic controls. I honestly find it difficult to adapt and use modern controls when I know how to do the classic inputs. Almost like I'm playing a fighting game for the first time just with a difficult control scheme. I'll most likely stick with classic even if it meant I don't get those quicker frames or reactions that modern provides
So what happens with distance? There are certain moves, like JP's moves, that depending on the strength of the input it travels a different distance. Since modern controls don't have light, med, and heavy attacks how does it decide what distance to shoot the move? Does it track the opponent?
his fireballs are fine, as his command grab as there is only 1 version of each. For his spikes you need to do it via proper command: down down attack button and can get all 3 distance. The actual problem with Modern JP is that his down forward HP is NOT available and cannot be done via manual controls as it shares command with his low fireball attack. This is critically flawed as Hard punch version of striborg is an absolute must to his combos.
As a smash bros player learning street fighter 6 with modern controls has been so much easier and I’m having a amazing time with the game so far
Sounds about right
As a casual player, modern do look nice but theres that nostalgic feeling of using the classic layout and pulling off hard stuff with it.
The best part of modern controls as a new player, is that I don’t have to worry so much about combos and execution and I can focus on learning footsies and fundamentals first instead.
3:39 can someone explain a little more detail what’s going on here? What exactly makes the auto better than the manual input
if you mash the autocombo in that situation and they block, Luke only does crLK > crLP, but if they get hit by any of the moves, the full autocombo will come out (crLK > crLP > EX special). So no matter what the opponent does, the outcome will always be on your favour (they block and you're safe, or they get hit and you get a combo).
This was a vid about the demo version of the game (only Luke and Ryu) and also a Luke specific thing, so I don't know if stuff changed in the full game.
@@CasteHappy so what happens when doing the combo manually on that situation?
@@allieboy181 if you just input the string manually, you will do the ex special when they're blocking so you can get punished really hard. You have to do crLK > crLP, visually confirm that the they got hit, and then do the special.
@@CasteHappy ahh I see, thanks I’m not that experienced with fighters yet and I haven’t played sf6 yet either. Cheers 🍻
Yeah its just as the other guy said, on auto combo the combo move stops when they block, but on manual if you do the full combo by accident while they block you get countered pretty roughly
I think to limit modern controls they should only allow it up to Gold. That way if someone who's got to Gold with with modern controls wants to go higher, they can be motivated to learn classic controls.
This is actually a pretty good idea if modern turns out to be too strong (although I’d say a higher threshold, maybe plat)
Modern controls are designed for mostly 2 kind of players : casual and disabled.
It wouldn't be faire to limit the second ones...
By the way, i'm actually Gold **** with E. Honda, and I think I've never played against anybody using Modern, either in Ranked or Casual...
1 button specials do only save a few frames, but I feel like they greatly reduce human error/misinputs
Modern controls felt weird to me in the demo and didn't really jive with me. I do like how modern opens up the game to new players, but it will be interesting to see how viable it actually is once the game comes out.
If people can have fun, that's all that matters. I can see why people are a bit worried about modern being the "meta" way to play in competitive though
almost feels like the modern controls is hitbox compared to classic controls. looks like a big advantage just adjustment is all it takes
@@ps123fan Hitbox doesn't give a big advantage at all. People really need to stop spreading this for justifying their bad execution.
Is there a way to do light and heavy specials? It seems you only have access to Medium and EX
i hope they make separate online divisions for each button setting. i'm gonna be playing traditional.
As a smash player I am interested but idk if these controls hinders combo potential, like i don’t want to do automatic combos and do the same basic thing over and over, I’m willing to take my time and learn, the only reason I want the modern is because I don’t want to get an arcade stick to get better at the inputs…
You might just want a controller that's Playstation style (dpad in line with the buttons)
you can do it on normal controller. Kids were doing it on super nintendo pads before smash players were born lol.
@@sk8lifeXgr8life Huh?
As a solely Mortal Kombat player with dial combos who's never really played SF and doesn't understand links and such, modern controls are such a massive win. It plays much more like MK in that specials are a direction plus button when in MK it's a motion like DF2 (down forward 2) and in SF6 a special can be F2 (forward 2) which allows it to make more sense in my brain. I was able to play and have fun in the open beta because it didn't feel like I could only do pokes and normals as opposed to other SF games I've tried and quit pretty quickly. I'm actually considering getting the game now because of modern controls. I know that'll probably get hate and "omg git gud scrub" comments, but I think it was a great idea by Capcom.
SF isn’t MK, though. Either learn it or stay at Mk.
I can deal with the instant specials and supers or whatever, but I think I gotta draw the line at auto hit confirms. That's too much.
I mean... Tbh, I was introduced to Street fighter as a franchise in Street Fighter 4.
And honestly no matter how hard I tried, anything more then a normal canceled into a special or a super was beyond my realm of capability. I can not link my normals. But anyhow, even I think having two control schemes in a fighting game is a questionable decision. Especially when things like reactions are obscenely easier on "modern" controls.
P.S: SF is so difficult for me to play but I took to Tekken just fine? It's so weird.
Tekken doesn't require linking, and USF4 has like no input buffering to my knowledge. In SFV it has 5 (or 8?) buffer frames which makes it much easier to link normals.
@@permabanQrus I ended up getting placed in bronze and climbed to Platinum 2 so far. SF6 is a good buy.
How do you choose the strengths of your specials? Like I play Guile. Would I just have to give up on being able to do a fast vs slow sonic boom? That sounds nearly unplayable
You can still do motion input for some of your special. Guile default to light boom if you use the SP button, but if you charge back then forward with the H attack button, you can get the fast boom (and it would not suffer the 20% damage penalty). Same with Blade and Flash Kick.
Not every special can be done with motion input in modern though. Ryu's Tatsu and High Blade Kick overlaps with the motion input of Fireball and Hashogeki, so you can only do the SP and OD version for those two kick specials. Meaning Ryu is stuck with Medium and OD version of Tatsu and High Blade Kick with Modern control.
You potentially have to play in a totally different way against players with modern control. Basically learn how to abuse the enemies autocombos, etc.. It's not well designed in my opinion
It's going to be easy to predict a modern control player due to having less attacks and has a classic control player I will enjoy that fact.
Capcom design Modern Control to be:
*A Easy Way To Learn For New Players, Not To Be Equal To Classic Control.*
Without those limitation Modern Control is literally Cheating.
"Princess Controls" will become the only available controls anyway. Capcom wants to get rid of Classic since the new generation can't be bothered to "learn" stuff and "hone" skills.
The problem I feel is that modern controls asks very different things from the game and its' players.
Like if a character has a super that's an insane anti-air but only if you use modern controls to react, how do you even balance that? Do you change what super you're allowed to do with modern controls? Do you make the super unusuable for classic?
What about characters who have small gaps in their pressure? Should they be balanced with the idea people won't be able to trivially DP 1 frame between their moves?
As long as modern is viable, it seems clear that the way they can balance is either by actively punishing people for playing classic, or by fucking over everyone who's practicing on modern by changing/removing what you're allowed to do. Both of which seem fucked.
I'm okay with games which use simplified control schemes, but I think I hate the idea of trying to have them co-exist in a game where they are both potentially competitively viable.
In this instance, since SF6 does not actually take big steps to accomodate for the meaningful differences created by modern, it seems like it should be (like in other games), the mode used to drastically lower the barrier to entry, while not being the mode of choice for people spending 1000+ hours grinding the game.
I totally agree with you, there’s another super important thing. Mental stack…
I cannot wrap my head around Modern Controls. If I was just starting with fighting games sure its a great place to start, but I can do SPDs and pretzels about 90% on stick so its just odd for me trying MC at this point.
Also, playing multiple characters and having to remember to hold down assist to get a certain move I normally always have access to with one button is extra mental stack. So Modern can make some things harder like two buttons for a cMP in some cases. Not to mention its not universal across characters. Sure instant 100% Supers are good, but if I see a clear punish I am going to combo as optimally as possible INTO the Super from another button unless it is a sure kill on its own.
Classic is for me and if it means some online losses to a Modern user here and there its fine, I am not a tournament player anyway and can live with it.
I agree with your points on one button supers. Sure, it will make a raw super punish easier but as luke right now as a street fighter newbie on classic, I can just EX qcb P into any super for a punish just fine by buffering the input in my recovery animations. So outside of whiff punishes at range I don't see it being too powerful compared
Sf6 was my first traditional fighter since mkx and my first street fighter ever, went straight into classic controls and resisted the temptation of modern. No regrets, I’m having a great time.
as a relatively "new fighting game player" (3 years and counting, experience in tekken 7, GG-ST and some XrD, some DBFZ, some GBFVS, very little SF5), i see literally no reason to not play Modern controls, they look WAY STRONGER than classic, with way more practically advantages and the option to use some "classic" tools (like QCF+L to fireball/specials with no dmg penalty), yeah you lose "some normals" (and depends on each character) but u gain A LOT OF RELEVANT ADVANTAGES like instant specials and supers and even option select? that pretty mental to me at least, i would like to hear way more veterans opinions on the matter honestly
This all inclusive stuff is just ruining the world for me. I get trying to make things accessible for people that can't shove out the money for sticks and hitboxes but it's that ease of access thing in mind that ruins the die-hard fan base. And that's the fanbase that keeps these genre's alive.
What perplexes me about the situation is what they require (and don't require) for supers on Classic.
They are enforcing that you're doing the full motion twice, but also allowing you to press only one button. (In fact they require one button, if you press 3 you get EX. WTF?)
In SF4 and xT you were able to spam Down, Down-Forward (or Down, Down-Back) then only press Forward (or Back) with the attack buttons when you wanted to trigger the Super.
I'd really like the options to enable SF4 style shortcuts on Supers (and also require 3 buttons.) The shortcuts will help bridge the gap on modern reactions because you can just sit crouched and buffer the motion w/o moving; unlike now where you have to do squats forward or backward. Requiring 3 buttons will also be nice because when you're buffering you can still easily select if you want Special, EX, or Super.
Yeah, I dont know why they made Supers harder to do in SF6 (5 directions compared to 4 in SFV). Is it an oversight? Did they want to nerf reaction supers for some idiotic reason (but then Modern mode can just do them with 1 button). It's weird.
@Bolo Fundoordriller I think it's a attempt to nerf the hit box controller
@Guy Montag I 100% agree its messed up. It even discouraged me because I was going to learn hitbox going into sf6.
I'm a long time keyboard and hitbox player. (Since Alpha 2 on GGPO.) I highly doubt this has anything to do with nerfing hitbox. If anything, I remember people complaining about the fact that players could sit crouched and buffer supers in SF4. This is at a time 99.99% of the discussion was about arcade sticks and most people I played with were amazed I could even play on keyboard.
Honestly though I wouldn't be surprised if this was just an oversight. For as many things you can say are nerfs or actions to make the game harder and more precise, there are many many more decisions on making the game more accessible and easier (which leads to inputs being more fuzzy).
So which characters don’t get impacted much by losing moves?/which characters are pretty strong still, even though they’re using modern controls?
The modern controls simplifies the game for newbies like me who finds fighting games hard and daunting to get into. I can focus more on my spacing and combos instead of practicing hard complicated inputs over and over until it’s precise.
It’s a win and introduces more new players to the genre who are scared of getting into fighting games because of the high skill learning curve
However, it ruins the competitive integrity of the game. Also with how effective wiff punishing is with modern controls, it makes it even easier to wipe new players. Having inputs are also important for balance reasons, having moves being able to come out in one frame changes the balance of the game.
I was used to 6 button inputs (but im garbage at fighting games) then i tried modern controls extensively today and i was able to do stuff i never was able to do before
I'm really worried about Modern's viability tbh... Hopefully it doesn't overshadow Classic controls.
They're on the same level of viability.
@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 thats the problem, modern should always be objectively worse
@@redrenji6144 BUT WHY?!
@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 Because they're easier and faster. The tradeoff should be that they're weaker and not as versatile. Which is intended, but as you can see, can be worked around. And that simply should not be the case.
@@saeno7258 oh, I get not wanting it to turn the other control obsolete, but the other guy wanted it to be objectively WORSE than Classic, which is the part that I don't get. Why can't they both be equally good?
Does SF6 have an option like MK11 in which I have easier directional inputs?
MK11 was the only FG I played since I always had issues with the controls of typical FGs with the whole directional fiesta u have to input for special moves, it always annoyed me even when I rly wanted into some games because of some chars that looked rly interesting to me.
Modern Controls in SF6 however look strange since you lose moves from it and dmg with using assist. And I dont know which chars rly suffer from it, I am thinking about getting SF6 just because of JP, since I rly like wizards, he being more like an MK char than a typical SF char and most importantly, his japanese voice is Escanor... well and Juri, Manon and Cammy look interesting too, bc of reasons.
i have a feeling they should update modern controls to remove 100% optimal option-select combos, make autocombos always continue regardless of block/hit, add extra start up frames to remove stuff like instant supers to match classic controls timing, but then also remove the damage penalty.
This is all starting to look less about accessibility for newbies and more just about a new control scheme. That itself isn't bad, but to deviate from SF's DNA will get pretty weird. Motion vs charge aren't just arbitrary directional inputs. They actually have important details for SF's gameplay.
Capcom design Modern Control to be:
*A Easy Way To Learn For New Players, Not To Be Equal To Classic Control*
Your "fixes" make Modern Control literally Cheating.
Tbh i think gbfv did a really good job at balancing this out. Having longer cooldowns on easy inputs really helped with the meta since there were some moves that were especially vital to charas and they had to make that decision.
Tbh, as someone who has never played sf, all of my previous games were anime games and the closest thing i played was gbfv, i feel like easy input should take more meter or sth in this game since that seems like the equivalent.
Your overall damage is limited and it doesn’t erase the skill gap in fundamentals.
@@liquidjackson7172 Yeah, it wont help if there is an absolute gap in fundamentals, nothing will, modern or classic or otherwise.
But i think making the ez inputs use more meter would help to incentivize newer players to experiment with motion controls more and incentivize them to use it.
Also, one of the biggest strengths of modern inputs is the ability to get counterhits a lot more consistently since ur reacting faster, which does more damage anyway.
Just so we are clear, im not proposing a net increase to meter to everything they do, just when u use ez inputs.
@@garethcf1016 I hear you there. If there’s no work around to what you proposed, I’d say to tax the EZ inputs even more with repeat uses. Say they press the button multiple times in a row. Things like that. At the very least, I’m happy that they taxed the overall damage.
@@liquidjackson7172 yeah it would be absolutely fked if it had full damage with that kind of speed and consistency
Zangief with one button supers being able to react to Fireballs seems incredibly strong
The super button with classic controls would be pretty neat, I like being able to pick light/medium/heavy kick/punch with classic but I'm just too shit to input any super attacks
Honestly feels like removing the execution from fighting games in the equivalent of removing natural physical differences in people who fight (height, strength, endurance, etc). Takes the human element out of choking under pressure and the satisfaction of knowing you accomplished something with the effort you put in. Should be removed from tournament play imo. The pros will adapt to it either way. I don’t think having them will make for a better game to watch. Too early to really call so I guess we’ll see
Exactly. I am not an advocate of 'Harder game is a better game' but I feel its okay to have easy combos which are reliable and harder combos which are a little less consistent etc. Adds an element of choice to the game, and more diverse playstyles
Motion inputs are a contentious point, since I feel they are a relic but one which provides some interesting mechanical quirks to playing fighting games which I enjoy.
Luckily I can still play classic and I am not competitive so I do not care if people are playing modern against me for a win, I just find classic controls more fun and engaging
Is the dynamic not going to be available in online play?
I just learned about it in the demo. Ai assist, hold for L M or H combo. Grabs and supers are auto too I think.
I think it's good that there are pros and cons to the different control setups.
Unless you’re a charge character or jp than modern is objectively better
Great vid - I plan on getting back into SF and was wondering if I should stick to classic or modern. Will give Modern a shot!
(I can imagine graplers like Zangief, who have to input these obnoxious circle motions just to get a command grab, will be BUFFED with modern)
never noticed this, but is the hadou-ken actually two hands holding a fireball? When it breaks it looks like there are dark blue hands that were holding and moving the fireball the whole time...
the hands were in street fighter 2, they just added them back in 6, you can also see them as the fireball is moving. The "fireball" is more like a flying punch, and apparently is only a little warm.
I feel like modern is going to create an easy transition for player who come from games like Granblue
One thing I'm curious about is, the "combo assist" mode lets you do combos that are otherwise not available to Modern controls, but that I've heard are not the best combos out there to be doing. I'm curious as to how much ability you have to break _out_ of those auto-combos midstream, and what benefit that could offer.
Like say a basic auto-combo is "holdR2+LLLLL" and that does a full string, but all at reduced damage and maybe it's not the most efficient outcome. But would you have the option to, say, "holdR2+LL, _drop_ R2,M,H,Special,Super," basically leave behind the auto combo after the first couple of hits land and shift into the combo that a pro would be doing using Classic controls? Or would the control mechanics cause lag that would prevent that combo from working? If the combo would work, would the entire thing be at reduced DPS, or would only the portion that as an auto be reduced, and the manual inputs would be at normal damage?
you can break the combos mid stream at any point and change them up or even extend them if you want, also yes if you do the motion input for a move mid combo it does the full damage the 20% only applies when you use the special button for that move
@@blinx_x9925 So that will be the next step for RUclipsr tutorials, a list of different combo options to break out of the auto-combos in ways that would not otherwise be accessible in Modern mode, but provide significant added value.
@@timogul yes most likely, the other big factor to find out is which characters are best with modern the answer will most likely be the grapplers and possibly marisa
I think modern control players are gonna wipe the floor with classic control players. I’m not saying this is necessarily a good thing, but modern controls are incredibly intuitive and make everything way faster. Frames are frames and in the end, whoever can get their attack out in fewer frames is gonna have a huge advantage. Yes, some moves do less damage, but you can do them way more frequently to make up for that.
doesn't matter how easy the controls are, ultimately its up to who can control the distance, get their pokes in, whiff punishes, etc making the executions easier doesn't change the core game
@@eclisis5080 lol it most certainly does my guy.
@@jeffmx5923 he destroyed everybody on the beta who used modern controls stop it, executions don't make you a good player, in street fighter v it was people at silver work who could do better combos than me but could never beat me on my way to diamond, its more to the game than inputs
@Eclisis quarter circle + punch for hadoken vs a single button.
Single button supers.
These make a difference and will drop the skill ceiling for the game since now instead of practicing the inputs and making it consistent, u just hit a single button and a direction and there's your special.
A nerf to damage won't make much a difference if u can more consistently hit specials
@@jeffmx5923 no they don't, you have to effectively use the moves while playing, would help somebody who knows how to play the game already use a character they don't normally use absolutely, what's wrong with that, it's still a game of chess, why don't use modern controls and play me tomorrow when they came drops, I'll smash you
I'm Tekken player not a street fighter player so I don't know how good modern controls are going to be and I don't really have any way of knowing, but I can say that modern controls to me are like automatic transmissions on a motorcycle, it literally takes the way the thing that makes it fun
Imagine your B&B combo always landing by mashing one button, giving JUST as good damage as it would if you were doing the combo regularly, and always being safe on block, therefore there's no risk to mindlessly mashing. In addition, your power-crushes, parries, and unblockables are all only one frame to start up.
That's modern controls. 💀
I personally don't like modern controls.
It should not replace the traditional direction based controls and commands. It should PURELY serve as training wheels for new players, so that they can work their way to getting good at the traditional way.
I don't like Fighting Games being made easier because a big part of the experience of playing a fighting game is the learning curb to execution and timing.
It takes away from that experience when you water things down to Anime brawler level simplicity.
The only way I see to fix imbalances in the control schemes is to BUFF CLASSIC CONTROLS. You can't yank back hard on Modern at this stage, lest Capcom is attacking the very thing they want newbies (and more) to embrace. Even worse, I want to say CLASSIC = 6 BUTTONS, not 8 buttons. So how can we make 6 button Classic stand up to Modern?
Well, how about not locking Drive Impact to HP+HK? If I could DI using LK+MP or LK+HP, I can more quickly respond to situations like Modern can.
How about Classic being able to use a level 1 super art using LK+HP+Direction? If I could quickly level 1 when in BurnOut, I would feel much stronger.
How about LP+HK is a shortcut to the Special button that allows for quick reversal DPs, SPDs, and more?
There's lots of possibilities here other than "Classic controls now means choosing to be disadvantaged".
I'm going to try both. End of the day I'm glad because my kids will be able to play street fighter without getting frustrated. They're 8 and 6, and their uncle loves fighting games. Thus will be a great way for them to connect with their uncle.
They can use the Dynamic controls then. Those are only available offline and they provide even more assistance to the player.
modern control is the best thing added to the entire genere since combos.
Damn, I agree modern definitely seems like it has some competitive edge, particularly with the moveset changes not being equal across the board. God i really don't like it or want to learn it though lmao.
Edit: getting massive GBVS instant anti air DP ptsd
Then don't. There's classic controls too.
@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 I mean I've been using classic in the demo, but unfortunately I'm not the type to overlook something if there's a good competitive reason to use it lol
@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 Imagine a Guile player being able to do antiair flash kicks 100% of the time...yeah for some characters this isnt going to be fun to fight against
Do grapplers have 1 button specials too? Because I remember how great it was for street fighter on 3ds.
yes the grapplers will have one button specials as with every character on modern
In my experience Modern control luke fits me like a glove lol. Despite losing a few moves just doing his combos feels soo good. And It's been a while since I played a street fighter game
Same man. Even Ryu. I’m consistently hitting 40-60% hit combos. It all comes down to fundamentals and baiting if you go modern. Good trade off if you ask me
Can you use Modern controls in ranked and/or tournament play, though? I think that would be the only limitation.
Yes, you can.
I think that as long as there is an option not to get matched with Modern control players as a Classic player it's completely fine. Competitive players/tournaments will have to figure out what they do tho.
I really don't think this is going to happen, as modern control players would probably not be able to find as many matches. Unless the majority decides to use it, than it would be the other way around, unless you just give in and disable this option. This is definitely gonna be in discussion once the game launches and we get to see the first tournaments.
It feels like Capcom took some inspiration from smash
"Modernizing" controls are long overdue. When you think about the evolution of gaming in general, you think the about the ability to do way more interesting things therefore hooking new and old players alike. Trying to stick with dinosaur mechanics is counterintuitive to building and evolving more and more interesting gaming, especially if your game is going to die because no one wants to play an overly complex game. Simplifying controls is one of the longest overdue changes necessary to gaming.
What characters do you suggest to use with modern control?
This is my first street fighter thanks to modern controls and I’m absolutely loving it but after playing the beta some characters are still incredibly hard to play like the drinking kicking guy who I wanted to main but It was incredibly hard to even try to learn him. I love the game but I hope I’m not forced to play as easy characters like Luke and the other guy in the demo. I’m sure if I train with the character for 3 years I should be able to get used to them like I did with Shang Tsung in MK11
Don’t let beta discourage you! The full release game will include an incredible amount of tools to teach new players how to learn their character. Characters that you think are hard are easy to others and vice versa. Luke will be a difficult character to master since a majority of his combos are very timing centered which can be incredibly difficult for players.
If modern controls end up being superior to classic controls, the game is competitively finished. Watching tournaments where there's a lot of focus on reacting with one button DPs to things constantly, and with the neutral being simplified because of lack of buttons, would make for a pretty boring and uninspiring experience. I can only imagine how utterly boring GG or MVC would play like if their version of Modern controls had been superior to the normal scheme...
I don't believe Capcom would let it reach that state - they would either nerf the Modern controls or ban them from their own tournaments if it comes to it.
But let's see. It's a bit preemptive to call it either way.
They don't give a damn about the tournaments. They only want as many people to buy their game as possible, which means attracting noobs, which then means empowering those noobs so they commit to the purchase.
@@watchmesquatch You'd be surprised how important a pro scene is in maintaining interest in a game. There's a reason everyone wants their game to be an ESport
@@watchmesquatch But noobs will buy your game whether Modern controls are allowed in tournaments or not, though. On the other hand, having a strong competitive scene is like 24/7 hours marketing and interest in your game. There's a reason they're sinking 2 mil into the prize pool this year.
Dunno, i didn't watch the tourney for how they input their move... But for their decision making... That's the clutch I'm looking for... So it doesn't matter if the control is modern or classic... Bcoz decision making is not on thr controller sidr but on the individual... So what if u use classic but if u made terrible choice the match won't be enjoyable
@@syahidirhassan4846 the control scheme dumbs down their decision making though