DD20: PARTITION: Was it good or bad for India?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Secunderabad, 28 March 2024
77 years after the Partition of India, renowned Political Scientist and Historian Prof. Ishtiaq Ahmed discusses this still topical question with Mohan Guruswamy at Guruswamy Center, Secunderabad.
Prof Ishtiaq Ahmed is a researcher into the History of India's Partition. Through his research into hitherto unknown primary sources he has written two seminal books on Partition - "The Punjab - Bloodied, Partitioned and Cleansed", "Jinnah - His Successes, Failures and Role in History". He is also the author of "Pakistan - The Garrison State", which traces the emergence of Pakistan's military as a preeminent power in that country. Reflecting his interest in Indian Cinema and Music, he has also authored a book on "Pre-Partition Punjab's Contribution in Indian Cinema".
Mohan Guruswamy's career has traversed Government, Academia, and Industry. He is today a prolific columnist, a public intellectual, and an authority on security matters.
In this talk Prof Ishtiaq Ahmed and Mohan Guruswamy discuss Partition in general, with special reference to whether it was good or bad for India, and the lessons to be learned from it.
About half of this recording comprises of the talk between the two conversationalists, and the other half shows the Q&A session that followed.
Reflecting his love for music, Prof Ishtiaq Ahmed also regales the audience by singing a couple of songs to wind up the event.
Even in partitioned India, Govt could not save Kashmiri Pundits, how could have it possible in unpartitioned India.
Kashimi Pandits would have own state as there was no need for invasion by Pakistan or defensive from India after which they took control.
@@rtam9894Sandeshkhali silence gang agrees
Many Hindus and sickular underplay the threats of Islam and Christianity as they are spineless to call it out.
@@rtam9894sindhis should also need their seperate state to halt their genocide
Who want Hindu Muslim unity between India-Pakistan should first establish Muslim-Muslim unity between Pakistan-Afghanistan
Kuch bhi buk dete
Exactly 😊
That is impossible. Their religion taught them to hate us.
@@DipakBose-bq1vv ✅
Hindu muslim unity not possible because Quran divides them and kuran has closed all paths of unity. Only way Hindu muslim unity possible is by either all hindus convert to Islam or all muslim convert to Hindu.
Partition was a blessing for India
Sirs,it was really good for both India and Pakistan.
The only caveat is that it was incomplete. Most of the Indian Muslims stayed in india.As a result Pakistanis are always thinking about Indian Muslims and Indian Muslims are unhappy about the rise of hindu aspirations.
Exactly. Ahmed should organize pak govt to take all the Muslims that have been left in India. Every one of them.
There is only one drawback with the partition and it was noticed and remarked upon by the redoubtable Ambedkar : the partition ought to have been carried out with full transfer of the Hindus to Bharath and full transfer of all Muslim to Pakistan.
That was not done due to the cussedness of the asinine leadership of the Congress party with Karamchand Gandhi at its helm.
@@atokimruk937 including you.
what a clown this Mohan guy is
You are smarter than him?
@@yj9032yes as vikam sood ex RAW chief said about india/ Pakistan relation he says he is not a hawk but he believes in realism we are not the same people so we Indians should ignore Pakistan and move on.😊
@@CGT127 true brother
@CGT127 we may be racially different mix but real differences are in ideology. If these the conflicting ideology are removed things will be smooth. Irrespective of ideology, there is also another truth, people go after success (ugte suraj ko sabhi Salam kerte h). Jaise India Pakistan ke log jan pe khelke usa aur Europe jate h jaha per ideology dono ke hostile to h per economic benefits ke nam per jate ho aur we apko immigration ki permission bhi dete h.
@@skagraw2 Dear 63% of Pakistani population do first cousin marriage that's leads to genetic disorders. I live in Mumbai there a school near my Residence for deaf children 70% of the children's are muslims so I asked the principal why majority of children's are muslims he said because of first cousin marriage frankly l never knew about first cousin marriage in muslims community and the disorders it creates for children. Last month I read a article in a Pakistani newspaper which says 63% of Pakistani couples marry their first cousin.
What an idiotic and biased moderator
Thank god for partition! Or else we would have stuck with all the horrors that are Pakistan of today
Yes, we would have all become a giant poor Gaza like place.
Secular muslim is a term for those people who either ignore Qur'an and hadees or they never read those books which ruled india for 800 yrs...
As a Hindu it was Disaster for us that our motherland was divided and we lossed civilizational land where Vedas was written,Indus river, Nankana shahib, kartarpur shahib,Hinglaj temple and on eastern side many historical sites..On the other hand Imagine Akhand Bharat where 25 crores of muslims of Pakistan 15 crores of Bangladesh and 20 crores of India...60 cores literally ye Disaster hota..60 crores Muslims in India horrible situation for us
It's a misplaced conception. The only loss due to partition was the loss of human lives in million and the human tragedy of migration. Otherwise big nations can't survive without a powerful emotional and cultural bond.
In present day Pakistan, economy was controlled by non Muslims ( just like Afghanistan until 1979 and Gulf until 1973). So that would have been a problem. But politically it would have been like Cyprus and Labonan. Very loose administrative control.
@@asadraza1666fact ❤This area might feel left over in united India and every one knows the muslim victim hood mindset😊
@@DevRajKhadka-xy7ky Ireland and Sudan have also been divided on regious basis. I didn't know what is the religion of Nagaland but they are also not happy. Anyway it was just a hypothetical discussion. Let's forget past and look to the future
Indua valley is not origin of our civilization... It's last remains of our civilization... Now submerged dwarka found to be 10000 year old.. Most of hindus important places are in India only..
If India 🇮🇳 would have not been partitioned the Islamisation or breaking India in many parts would have been much more faster. One of the sole reason why Maulana Azad or Deobandi was against partitioned.
Is guruswamy anti India or anti Hindu or "anti population stats of Hindus in pakistan"?
Time is up for political correctness. One thing common to all separatists around the world has one book which is common. Even when given asylum in Europe we can see their activities. Why people who follow other books don't indulge in such activities. So it's the book which is responsible.
It is good for India
Having Pakistan as a buffer state between India and the ever-restive Afghanistan is the best outcome of Partition.
Atleast we would have more control over India if not partition afghanis illegal immigrants would have been our problem in undivided India
The guy opening the discussion is typical of the politicians of the IN.D.I.A
Is there no caste systems in Islamic society where syed community dominate the rest.
Read report in Dawn 2 years ago when police were sent to the top University when " upper caste" Muslims refused entry to lower caste Muslims in hostel upper floors reserved for them. Muslims in pak call themselves " Rajput", " Lodi", " Jat", " Khatri", etc, etc putting them above other Muslims
If partition never took place, could Indian foreeign policy be forced to give Asylum to afghanistan which leads to insecurity ? Could india with a 40% MUSLIM POPULATION , trade freely with Israel ? Could India have had an independent foreign policy ? Ambedkar was one man who understood Pakistan entirely
All your doubts have become ture if that had happened
In around minute 25, a comment was made that during Indo-China war in 1962, Bhutto wanted to open up a front against India on the western front. But Ayub Khan refused for the sake of South Asia.
The real reason was USA was providing arms and winter clothing to India to fight back the Chinese and President JFK cautioned Pakistan not to get involved.
They patiently waited till 1965 after JFK was assassinated.
JFK had a soft spot for India and gave go ahead to India to liberate Goa. Before that India was hesitant as Portugal was part of NATO.
I have travelled to many parts of Pakistan in 1988 and spent lot of time with the locals including the army in Gilgit. They even invited me and took me across the border via Karakoram Highway (absolutely beautiful) to the Chinese post. Nothing but fond memories of Pakistan.
Yet I am glad it is a separate nation and partition worked out better for India. I will add more to that once I finish listening to the whole episode.
Jai Hind !
@@TheSudeepRoysir ....why don't our so called intellectual discuss about scared Islamic doctrines...which created laws for India for 800 yrs.... Hindus often reject and criticise their own sacred books but muslim believes in those books which openly create hatred for idol worshippers and who doesn't believe in prophet ....??
Fatwa e alamgiri was written for Indian subcontinent why nobody quotes those books to describe indian Society.....
India is not becoming Hindu Pakistan , India has same number of muslims or maybe more as pakistan. If Hindus don't unite Indian muslims will ask for another partition in upcoming years.
The professor Ishtiaq Ahmad is an eminent scholar and highly intellectual in the subcontinent. His Research and books change the perspective of Indian history everyone across India and Pakistan must encourage thoughtful writing...❤
If India wouldn't have been partioned the democracy might be more strong which is today. The Afghanistan wouldn't be under civil war through west intervention. China wouldn't dare to take Tibet. Hindu Muslims gap wouldn't wide as it is today. India would be super power ahead of China challenging West and USA.
8 Crore Hindus killed since first Islamic Invasion.
Millions of Hindus have died in last 100 year alone
Crore of Hindus are displaced from Pakistan and Bangladesh in last 75 year
Lakh of Hindus are internally displaced from Kashmir and Muslim majority pockets within India
Doctor Ishtiaq Ahmed was much more rational and measured in his assessment of the situation
Mr Guruswamy came across as a left liberal with fixed notions .. disappointing. He has to have some knowledge about the lack of capable Muslim leadership who could not guide their community over the last 75 years. I watched the World Cup match in Hyderabad and stands full of Muslims strongly and openly supported the Pakistani team and were fawning over Babar Azam. All this is not lost on common people like us
And i thought i was the only one who noticed the hybd stadium crowds supporting Pak
India has a huge pakistanis residibg in bharat because of takla gandhi @@M_R___974
Muslims in india are pro Pakistani. They have no loyalty to India. They want to be treated in india as guest.
Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed despite all his visits to India and his observations seems more influenced by what he reads in western press . He seems to think that anti Muslim attitude is rife in India and the government. I do not know if he is playing to Muslim gallery in Hyderabad or he genuinely changed his opinion of India. I would be interested to know what evidence he has to form this opinion.
Scholar Nasim Yousaf was the first to uncover hidden facts about the partition of India, starting with his book published in 2003. It wasn't until 2020 that professors, inspired by Mr. Yousaf's work, began to acknowledge these findings but took the credit instead of giving it to him.
Majority of rough Muslim Generals / Officers in British India Army was the main reason for the partition. They would have looted and destroyed whole India, just like they did to Pakistan in the last 75 years.
Very balanced comments by Dt Ishtiaq. I dont know how many books he wrote, but I have read three, all excellently researched and written. True scholar
41:00 yes partition is good for India in the long run. Would have been better if all muslims left India. We would have had 200 million fewer problems.
Profound ideas, excellent decisions.
Please don't give lectures to Indians We are very progressive and ready to reform and please don't very about Indian society we will never be Pakistan
Sitting in secundrabad... nome of the sicular dared to discuss about razakars atrocities....what a shame.....and these people are discussing about Lahore.....what an irony
Very nice and balanced analaysis by Prof Ahmad I would appreciate if you could discuss the fate of the thriving hindu communities which lived there for centuries in the Pakistan side
Finally 💕
Really glad that our 'Men who matter' are back in action after this long a pause. Please keep the discussions going. Splendid conversation. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
yes, yeh dil mange more
Difference between the two countries can be gauged from this simple fact . There are many Indian politicians , intellectuals who talk like Mohan Guruswamy but there's hardly any politician or intellectual in Pakistan who talk like Dr Istiaq Ahmed . He is talking like this because he is not Pakistani citizen .
41:24 Do this Swedish momin want, 20% of momin population in sweden ?
the opening remarks by host itself indicated that they have a pre-conceived notion and belong to what's called lutyen who support previous family led regimes no matter how anti-modern it is, considering that whole party is family controlled, while calling itself democratic. Secondly, partition was the better among all other worst options and it's good that it happened. Just imagine India having to deal with all the mess on its western side. it was just that it should have been done with least human sufferings, which was a tragedy
Exactly.,these people are group 0f elites who refuses to accept the hard-core realities but try everything to disillusion common people mind that everything is propganda......look at that lady from Amritsar who was saying muslims are being lynched by hindus everywhere......these are the people we have to deal with....
It is bad be cause there was no exchange of population and the Muslims stay. We could not solve our refugee problem even today.
Partition was a blessing for hindus of this motherland... hindus safe now .. zombies 🧟♀️ in Pakistan 🇵🇰 and Bangladesh enjoying thir arabi Gulami
Scholar Nasim Yousaf was the first to uncover hidden facts about the partition of India, starting with his book published in 2003. It wasn't until 2020 that professors, inspired by Mr. Yousaf's work, began to acknowledge these findings but took the credit instead of giving it to him.
I am not only a supporter of Partition (of India) but a champion and I consider it very essential. I find Savarkar's demand for an undivided nation (Akhand Bharat) with both Hindus and Muslims living together a very novice thinking. My only pre-condition is that every single Muslim must be moved to Pakistan and every single Hindu must be moved to India otherwise new nation will never be a stable nation which is an essential condition for progress and development. (BR Ambedkar in the book on Pakistan and Partition of India, written 7 years before actual partition. He remained supportive of this statement till the actual partition)
Watching from Kolkata.
Some of these oldies were barking mad to suggest re-unification of subcontinent...they've lived their lives and are about to go, how could they even think of spoiling the lives of the youngsters of the coming generations, by suggesting reunification?😮
Good for India and Hindu
Mr. Mohan mentioned about the "police action", but conveniently forgot about the Razakar atrocities committed before that said police action! Why??? 😞
The lady saying lynching by sanatan janun should see the data of Hindus lynching by Muslims and Muslims lynching by Hindus . Please don’t show your Ignorance and stupidity by rhetoric comments . These people come and speak anything about Hindus . Also Prof Ishtiaq please refrain from spreading falsehood in trying to prove Islam as peaceful . People now know what is written in Quran .
Who is this Mohan guy interviewing Ishtiaq Ahmed ? What is his background. His opening remarks appear a load of non sense. We are heading for autocracy? Where is he getting this idea. In which universe he is inhabiting ? Why is he bringing the North and South divide etc. This is supposed to be about partition of India and Pakistan .He seems to a kind of left wing hot head. He is talking a lot of nonsense in front of a foreign guest that too a of Pakistani origin. He seems to be more interested in dishing out his left wing drivel than seeking the opinion of the guest.
Books:
INDIA AND PAKISTAN: THE OPPORTUNITY COST OF CONFLICT by APRIL 24, 2014
Pakistan The Garrison State by Ishtiaq Ahmad
While Memory Serves By Tuker
We divide and you rule by Jauhar
Everything in hands of children and insane is disastrous only. Just by endorsement of Hindu nation would have completed and made partitions successful. Which is failing presently. One portions got all right and privileges other is kept asking dharamsala clearly.
@20.53 I disagree with ishtiaq Ahmed, we are not same people in your country Pakistan Hindu's 🕉️ from 13 percentage has become less than 1 percentage. Whereas India 🇮🇳 a majority hindu 🕉️ 🚩 country Muslims were 4 percentage of total population today they're 20 percentage of the total population. More of that Hindu hater's like guruswamy doesn't have to take citizenship of western country to live a free life like ishtiaq Ahmed have too.
There is no need to talk of friendship between the two countries because it is all sham and bogus .
Now both countries should try to avoid each other for atleast 25 years . Only after that if both the country people yearn for interaction between the both countries , then only we should move forward . Indian Govt policy is absolutely right . 99% Pakistanis believes in Ghazwe e Hind and 100% believes in jihad and two nation theory . With these believes there can be no friendship and peace between the two countries .
There is only one drawback with the partition and it was noticed and remarked upon by the redoubtable Ambedkar : the partition ought to have been carried out with full transfer of the Hindus to Bharath and full transfer of all Muslim to Pakistan.
That was not done due to the cussedness of the asinine leadership of the Congress party with Karamchand Gandhi at its helm.
What nonsense this India guy is saying about India and the BJP. He is spreading false information. Modiji and BjP is for every Indian.
Majority community always ruling india Vijanagar empire save whole South India for 350years from Muslim rule,Marath empire ruled India for 150years
So only fools claim that Hindus got chance of Ruling India after 1000years of gap
Absolutely rubbish
Absolutely stupid conversation, this guru guy is hopeless.
Thank god, dangerous Trojan horses like Guruswamy have been marginalized now. These Track2 guys are conflict entrepreneurs.
Really Jinnah / Sawhardy after blood shed they got what they wanted as they said Muslim can live with Majority Hindus.
Matra to hai sangeet me. Although not able to speak southies but known
Excellent talk by Professor Ahmed. The angry and crying comments of hindu extremists in comments is the proof 😂.
One way traffic.... Nobody to counter from right wing side....
1:44 Jinnah says Wa Alai kum Salam to Mawlana Sahab in Namaz
The moderator has an agenda. If the only interest is to advice Hindus then keep it to yourself.
You can see disaster.
Prof Ahmad is quite rational in his approach.Since partition we have wasted a great deal of national resources in war and preparation for it.The opportunity cost is too heavy.This amount ,if friendly understanding can be achieved, can eradicate poverty in both the countries.In politics also we may see gradual development towards non-communal approaches.The thekedars of communal narratives may face near oblivion.The sub-continent may become the greatest economic hub of the world.We may not think of reunification.But there can be confederation with the constituents keeping the respective sovereignity intact.The society can see absence of religious hatred, reforms in social customs etc. The efforts of the organisers of this occasion may oneday bring about desired result which may not be liked by the vested interests on oppsite sides of the borders. As a result, China may desist from a misadventures on the border.
Have you ever read and observed Islamic ideology....??
As a marathi secular, naturally progressive hindu..........
If there was no partition muslims would have been more than 30-40% and then bramhins would have become more dominant to counter muslims.........so cow belt jahil Hindi states would have become more powerful and drained hindu energy by making them more agreesive.....
Becaus e Pakistan was created and muslims got divided into two , and indian Muslim accepted secular islam, (comapre with Pakistani pure islam).....and Hindu congress strengthened secular values and destroyed religious thekedari by Bramhin sanatanais.......mostly in south india.
When British ruled India .Uttar Pradesh was only State for Which British had liking for Mussoorie Dehradoon Haridwar Climate had affinity to there British Climate .Where Can you get a city like Allahabad and Benares which has World Significance.if was not for Uttar Pradesh .Punjab would not have been part of India and also Kashmir.British gave Sikh Empire Total Independence from 1763 onwards when they defeated that Islamic Invaders .it was British Claimed there unfulfilled dream to get Control of Whole of Punjab and Kashmir in 1853 from Sikh Empire that Eastern UP and Meerut region Upites fought with British and made Punjab part of British Empire ,it is saying in Punjab that If Eastern UP Soldiers had not fought with British Sacrificing there lives then Punjab would have been Independent .again 1857 revolution against British happened in all parts of UP and Meerut region where million if India Soldiers Sacrificed there life for Indias freedom.
🤡
Exactly india created secular elites like ateeq Ahmed, Mukhtar Ansari,dawood Ibrahim despite being a minority..
That's how secualr Muslim created personal law board and waqf board.....
that's why they were so oppose to alimony to a divorced women....
That's why muslim support triple talaaq...👏👏👏
No wonder people like you become the oxygen for BJP...
Partition was good for pakistan. Aaj hum majey sey pakistan mey gay (cow) ka gosht kha saktey hain. Musalmanane-hind tau ees barey mey soch bhi nahi sakta.
Accha wah bahut Accha kaam kar diya jese 🤣😂
This Mohan guy’s un invited interventions are a load of non sense. He wants to sound very intellectual but making an ass of himself.His opening remarks sound as if from someone not mentally balanced.
This guru try , to be papa of Indian…
Guru get lost …
Partition was the best decision, but the sad part was that many people were killed