The reason Haste>Mastery (up to 1450) is the amount of Death Strikes I do far exceeds the paltry ~30% increased bubble from going for Straight Mastery would give me. It's easy to overlook, but the base heal and the bubble both only apply when you Death Strike, since I Death Strike more liberally and freely, I'm getting more self sustained healing out. Because of the rapidity of reload on the Runes, I'm also able to just unleash hell in all of my offensive maneuvers, too. I don't have to keep anything in the tank(other than defensives of course) because the Runes are always a few seconds off from being Up again. Blood DK is not your standard tank, Blood DK requires a focus on OFFENSIVE capabilities to maximize Defensive. The harder we slam you, the harder we self heal. (I know Damage doesn't scale Healing, I'm saying I death strike MORE than you do, you'd need Firelands tier Mastery scaling to outpace me with this spec.)(And by then I'll have access to the same pieces meaning my itemization will be even MORE fluid than it currently is.)
Hey man, sound very logical to me, but I don´t get they way on how to get there. So do I only the reforge to get there or is it a good idea to also change the Gems from stamina / mastery to haste until I reach the 1430ish ? With only reforging I am not even close to the cap - and I am at 362 ilvl, so an "okay" gear. And are you using the Tank or DPS Tierset? I use Tank, maybe that is already a big minus to the haste cap And does the expertise cap matter a lot? Or should I just go hit cap > haste "cap" > expertise / mastery / stamina ... ? Thanks again my friend!
Bro I dont get it. The other discords seems amazing, warlock, shaman in particular, etc. I head over assuming the Blood DK disc is the same...and assuming good faith, everyone over there is like talking mad shit on haste.
@@Van_Behlen It's because the blood DK discord is much more geared toward your average/casual player. for a DK that is till progging half or more of the heroics, going mastery is likely going to be more beneficial. The DK discord position is basically "Haste is a way better dps stat than mastery, so if you arent dying go haste. if you're progging/dying then consider whether you want to trade some survivability for haste". 13/13 DKs have the luxury of way better gear, so you'll be sitting at a pretty comfortable blood shield (120%+) without having to focus on mastery. That's when haste becomes more valuable.
@@Van_Behlen feel like people are either gatekeeping or dont know what works better so they just go with popular opinion. on prot pal discord people would analyze tf out of situations to find the best option.
So far with the haste prio I've noticed BdKs are getting slapped. They are doing high dmg and healing but the damage taken is massive in my experience so far.
That’s interesting. I’ve gone back over my heroic log for Magmaw on a similar length kill. With an only 1 ilvl increase and going from mastery to haste, I took less damage, healed for more and did significantly more damage. It’s definitely a faster play style with how much faster your runes regen so it does take a bit to get used to and not lose runes.
@@deceivedonegaming6105 full epic 359 but maybe they are rotating more heart strikes than death strikes. It seems odd but they are getting slapped around
@@JAlvarez1104 Yeah I think it's a learning curve they need to overcome. Hoping they get it so I don't have to pump large heals into them constantly lol
What a great video ! I am still not sure if my healers will like if I switch to haste, but let´s see :D May I ask 2 questions about the boss tips you gave? Maloriak: Do I need to use AMS before he spreads the debuff or can I use it, after I received it and it will cancel the debuff? And if before: when is the best timing, does he cast it? I have never seen that tbh. Chimareon: So I will just make sure to safe runes for 1 DS to use when he is using his double hit, correct? Normally it always should be a 10k shield if I am not wrong. And does the "Break" Debuff go away during the Feud phase? Or will I end the boss fight which a ton of these debuffs? I assume that this will make it impossible to heal me over 10k, does it? Thanks a lot (also for all the other guides) - it helps me as we new BDK a lot !!!
Thanks, bud! Haste doesn't necessarily make you take more damage unless you make big sacrifices to get that haste, so I'd give it a go and see how it feels. You can't AMS after the buff goes out as it only prevents application. You use it right before he does his knockback, but as long as you run with glyph of AMS you have a ton of leeway. And yes, just make sure you have the runes for a DS during double attack. You'll always have at least a 10k shield unless you have like literally no mastery. The Break stacks don't drop, but they cap at 4. You can survive quite long even with 4 stacks since the last phase you'll have literally all your cooldowns, but even so the off-tank will usually start tanking as you tend to push phase 2 from a feud phase.
Hey Riyani, thanks for another great video. :) I have a few questions, what talents would you use to buff up the damage in a 10 man setting? and would you mind share what your reforgelite values are for the haste build? I have cleared 13/13 HC, but I got the news about 4p DPS set a bit late, so I am running 4P tank set with DPS tier legs as the "off piece". So I dont feel in any danger of dying in raids, but as you and subtle talked about, tank dps matters - so I want to buff it up some more. Hope you are willing to share some insight :)
I'd keep a similar spec to the one we have in the beginning of the "irresponsible build" portion of the video granted someone else is bringing the attack power buff, if not, swap 2 points from toughness into abom's might. For Reforgelite just make sure you have hit and expertise at "at least" for cap and soft cap, then I have haste at 250 and mast at 160, but just make sure that haste is higher than mastery. They don't have a "minimal" value for haste, so just run with that, then if you have haste over 1430ish, then you can reforge that to mastery or more expertise (sim to see what brings the most value).
@@Riyaniwow quick question on the caps: So I do only the reforge to get there or is it a good idea to also change the Gems from stamina / mastery to haste until I reach the 1430ish ? With only reforging I am not even close to the cap - and I am at 362 ilvl, so an "okay" gear, but with tank t-set, not the DPS. And does the expertise cap matter a lot? Or should I just go hit cap > haste "cap" > expertise / mastery / stamina ... ? Thanks again my friend!
Just about to head into normals and some prog with a new guild. My Bdk is 347, and I have don a bit of a mix of both haste and Mastery. Haste is at about 1200 and mastery is around 1400 with hit cap and exp soft cap, hp is 146k unbuffed with with one Stam trinket. Should I stack mastery just to be as safe as I can or will I be ok with the haste? I am enjoying the lower cooldowns on runes. I am torn and advice would be helpful! Character name is hellrend on benediction
I switched my gear to haste today for my raid i was a bit resilent about it because we were getting clapped with nef/ chog prog , but not only i felt my rotation smother it also increase my dmg and healing overall its a high risk high reward trade but for sure worth it.note if i fuck up one run i was punished really hard too
They are both 13/13heroic main tanks, you do the math. They arent the average player here. They are fully geared in close to bis or have absolute bis. Your average joe BDK tank is going to get absolutely fucked with this setup especially if their group isnt full of pumpers.
@@Wulfenst I’ve experienced this myself. We are 4/13 heroic guild. But 150% blood shields then rio haste seems good… there’s a good balance here but ppl wanna live in extremes
I'm currently 368 ilvl with hit/exp cap, 1446 haste, 1593 mast. Content didn't feel very threatening in pre-raid gear either, but you know best what kind of damage intake you have in your raid and can make gearing choices based of that.
@@Riyaniwow Exactly why I wont do the haste setup just yet. Theres a big difference in tankiness between me and our offtank/tertiary tank who occasionally off tanks so sometimes I am taking the boss + some adds on like Halfus for example. I am looking forward to doing this setup though as I remember I think in Firelands haste started feeling really good.
@@Wulfenst "you do the math" bro he's asking the expert who understands it theoretically the best. if he was confident in his math / his knowledge he wouldn't be asking the expert.
Sim APL is not optimized for damage, but I'm actually not sure if it's the best use of the spell or not. I currently use it during DRW, and it seems like that is worth, but I'm not 100% if it is or not.
There's no real "cap," but a number that a lot of people strive for is 1421 as it gives you 7.5 sec rune speed which lines up nicely with your global CDs.
@@Riyaniwow This is only partly accurate; there is a cap. Diminsihing returns exists and given current ilevel restraints 1400 should be roughly aimed at, 7.5 is the magic number, but being a little above or below it hardly impacts gameplay at all. Hit to Cap > Expertise to Soft Cap> Haste to 1400> Mastery=Stam> Everything else, even subsequent haste stacking.
Hi Riyani thanks for this vid. Got one question on chimaron dk solo tank. Under the buff, dk can’t die with more than 10k shield I get that. But without the buff, how should I deal with the damage under 4 breaks. I could use all the cd and externals but what if they ran out? And then rng?
Hey bud-- the tank that tanks during the feud phase will also be the one with aggro going into the last phase, so he'll have fewer stacks. Before he dies you'll be able to stack up a full blood shield. Then just pop your CDs once you're tanking and hope the boss dies before you do.
What I would do first is reset all your reforge (so you know what your stats are baselvl), and then regem all your gear with either pure str(if you dont need the bonus), str/haste, str/stam if you need a color for a good bonus on the item( It could be argued to do stam instead of str, but I think logs shows they are about the same in effectiveness so its down to personal perf, since even if you did stam instead of str its only about 7K in increase hp without extra buffs) . Then start with your least important secondary stats (crit, dodge, parry- str grants parry so you can safely reforge out of it) on your gear and reforge until you get hit and exp soft cap. whatever is left convert to haste. When deciding to reforge mast to haste, you want to be between 10-15 on your character sheet, so thats like 500-1150 ish in mastery. As long you dont go below 10( this is based on logs of the top 100 bdks that are haste builds and I averaged the values), convert mast to haste, you might end up with gear that your not sure what to do, like an item with crit/haste but you were already hit/exp cap before you got to that item, there its personal choice to leave it for the extra dps, or convert the crit to really whatever you want, mast, parry, dodge, if youre going to go over 15 mast, id go parry, but by that time youll be in full heroic gear and this comment is not needed anymore anyway lol.
I love the video but can't agree with the weak auras argument. Everyone should be aware of what's happening in the fight. When you have people with key rolls go down, someone will need to replace them, or its a wipe. Same for raid leaders. They definitely need all of that info.
Snapshot is when you maximize your stats in order to use an ability which gains the benefit over it's entire duration. For example, the pet scales with strength and haste, so if you have lust, fallen crusader proc, strength pot, etc. when you pop your pet, then it'll keep those stat values for the entire 1 minute duration, even if the buffs fade on you.
No, the DS heal is still based on a percentage of the damage that you have taken in the last 5 secs. Gear upgrades will increase the damage of the strike but not the healing. Normally, getting more gear will actually decrease your DS heal simply because you become more tanky, take less damage and in turn heal yourself for less.
@@JAlvarez1104 depends, the minimum heal is 7% of your max HP and ~40-50% of your DS will be minimum, so more hp does increase both the heal and the blood shield from those specific instances.
Thanks for uploading the shorter version, great tips 👍
Damn, there are people out there more passionate about DK blood tanks in Cata than me?! Loved this episode and learned a lot!
Borderline obsession cases over here-- cheers bud!
The reason Haste>Mastery (up to 1450) is the amount of Death Strikes I do far exceeds the paltry ~30% increased bubble from going for Straight Mastery would give me.
It's easy to overlook, but the base heal and the bubble both only apply when you Death Strike, since I Death Strike more liberally and freely, I'm getting more self sustained healing out.
Because of the rapidity of reload on the Runes, I'm also able to just unleash hell in all of my offensive maneuvers, too. I don't have to keep anything in the tank(other than defensives of course) because the Runes are always a few seconds off from being Up again.
Blood DK is not your standard tank, Blood DK requires a focus on OFFENSIVE capabilities to maximize Defensive. The harder we slam you, the harder we self heal. (I know Damage doesn't scale Healing, I'm saying I death strike MORE than you do, you'd need Firelands tier Mastery scaling to outpace me with this spec.)(And by then I'll have access to the same pieces meaning my itemization will be even MORE fluid than it currently is.)
Hey man, sound very logical to me, but I don´t get they way on how to get there.
So do I only the reforge to get there or is it a good idea to also change the Gems from stamina / mastery to haste until I reach the 1430ish ? With only reforging I am not even close to the cap - and I am at 362 ilvl, so an "okay" gear.
And are you using the Tank or DPS Tierset? I use Tank, maybe that is already a big minus to the haste cap
And does the expertise cap matter a lot? Or should I just go hit cap > haste "cap" > expertise / mastery / stamina ... ?
Thanks again my friend!
oh boy, the DK discord is going to love this one
Bro I dont get it. The other discords seems amazing, warlock, shaman in particular, etc.
I head over assuming the Blood DK disc is the same...and assuming good faith, everyone over there is like talking mad shit on haste.
@@Van_Behlen It's because the blood DK discord is much more geared toward your average/casual player. for a DK that is till progging half or more of the heroics, going mastery is likely going to be more beneficial. The DK discord position is basically "Haste is a way better dps stat than mastery, so if you arent dying go haste. if you're progging/dying then consider whether you want to trade some survivability for haste".
13/13 DKs have the luxury of way better gear, so you'll be sitting at a pretty comfortable blood shield (120%+) without having to focus on mastery. That's when haste becomes more valuable.
We're favorites in there
@@Van_Behlen feel like people are either gatekeeping or dont know what works better so they just go with popular opinion. on prot pal discord people would analyze tf out of situations to find the best option.
After being a prot warrior since 2003, cata blood DK is the reason I play today
So far with the haste prio I've noticed BdKs are getting slapped. They are doing high dmg and healing but the damage taken is massive in my experience so far.
That’s interesting. I’ve gone back over my heroic log for Magmaw on a similar length kill. With an only 1 ilvl increase and going from mastery to haste, I took less damage, healed for more and did significantly more damage.
It’s definitely a faster play style with how much faster your runes regen so it does take a bit to get used to and not lose runes.
thats cause they are using it wrong or still have blue gear
@@deceivedonegaming6105 full epic 359 but maybe they are rotating more heart strikes than death strikes. It seems odd but they are getting slapped around
@@JAlvarez1104 Yeah I think it's a learning curve they need to overcome. Hoping they get it so I don't have to pump large heals into them constantly lol
@@jasondotson1186 This channel gives bdk advice for turbonerd parsers. Take it with a huge grain of salt.
Has anyone seen if Subtle posted any Stat weights for the haste build?
did you see it until now ?
What a great video ! I am still not sure if my healers will like if I switch to haste, but let´s see :D
May I ask 2 questions about the boss tips you gave?
Maloriak: Do I need to use AMS before he spreads the debuff or can I use it, after I received it and it will cancel the debuff? And if before: when is the best timing, does he cast it? I have never seen that tbh.
Chimareon: So I will just make sure to safe runes for 1 DS to use when he is using his double hit, correct? Normally it always should be a 10k shield if I am not wrong. And does the "Break" Debuff go away during the Feud phase? Or will I end the boss fight which a ton of these debuffs? I assume that this will make it impossible to heal me over 10k, does it?
Thanks a lot (also for all the other guides) - it helps me as we new BDK a lot !!!
Thanks, bud! Haste doesn't necessarily make you take more damage unless you make big sacrifices to get that haste, so I'd give it a go and see how it feels.
You can't AMS after the buff goes out as it only prevents application. You use it right before he does his knockback, but as long as you run with glyph of AMS you have a ton of leeway.
And yes, just make sure you have the runes for a DS during double attack. You'll always have at least a 10k shield unless you have like literally no mastery. The Break stacks don't drop, but they cap at 4. You can survive quite long even with 4 stacks since the last phase you'll have literally all your cooldowns, but even so the off-tank will usually start tanking as you tend to push phase 2 from a feud phase.
Hey Riyani, thanks for another great video. :)
I have a few questions, what talents would you use to buff up the damage in a 10 man setting? and would you mind share what your reforgelite values are for the haste build?
I have cleared 13/13 HC, but I got the news about 4p DPS set a bit late, so I am running 4P tank set with DPS tier legs as the "off piece". So I dont feel in any danger of dying in raids, but as you and subtle talked about, tank dps matters - so I want to buff it up some more.
Hope you are willing to share some insight :)
I'd keep a similar spec to the one we have in the beginning of the "irresponsible build" portion of the video granted someone else is bringing the attack power buff, if not, swap 2 points from toughness into abom's might.
For Reforgelite just make sure you have hit and expertise at "at least" for cap and soft cap, then I have haste at 250 and mast at 160, but just make sure that haste is higher than mastery.
They don't have a "minimal" value for haste, so just run with that, then if you have haste over 1430ish, then you can reforge that to mastery or more expertise (sim to see what brings the most value).
@@Riyaniwow Well thank you for the tips, I improved my average parse from 83 to 94 and I even got some 99 in there 😁
@@Kenneth91bauer We love to hear it!
@@Riyaniwow quick question on the caps: So I do only the reforge to get there or is it a good idea to also change the Gems from stamina / mastery to haste until I reach the 1430ish ? With only reforging I am not even close to the cap - and I am at 362 ilvl, so an "okay" gear, but with tank t-set, not the DPS.
And does the expertise cap matter a lot? Or should I just go hit cap > haste "cap" > expertise / mastery / stamina ... ?
Thanks again my friend!
Just about to head into normals and some prog with a new guild. My Bdk is 347, and I have don a bit of a mix of both haste and Mastery. Haste is at about 1200 and mastery is around 1400 with hit cap and exp soft cap, hp is 146k unbuffed with with one Stam trinket. Should I stack mastery just to be as safe as I can or will I be ok with the haste? I am enjoying the lower cooldowns on runes. I am torn and advice would be helpful! Character name is hellrend on benediction
I switched my gear to haste today for my raid i was a bit resilent about it because we were getting clapped with nef/ chog prog , but not only i felt my rotation smother it also increase my dmg and healing overall its a high risk high reward trade but for sure worth it.note if i fuck up one run i was punished really hard too
What is your haste and mastery going into a raid unbuffed? Also ilvl with it please.
They are both 13/13heroic main tanks, you do the math. They arent the average player here. They are fully geared in close to bis or have absolute bis. Your average joe BDK tank is going to get absolutely fucked with this setup especially if their group isnt full of pumpers.
@@Wulfenst I’ve experienced this myself. We are 4/13 heroic guild. But 150% blood shields then rio haste seems good… there’s a good balance here but ppl wanna live in extremes
I'm currently 368 ilvl with hit/exp cap, 1446 haste, 1593 mast.
Content didn't feel very threatening in pre-raid gear either, but you know best what kind of damage intake you have in your raid and can make gearing choices based of that.
@@Riyaniwow Exactly why I wont do the haste setup just yet. Theres a big difference in tankiness between me and our offtank/tertiary tank who occasionally off tanks so sometimes I am taking the boss + some adds on like Halfus for example. I am looking forward to doing this setup though as I remember I think in Firelands haste started feeling really good.
@@Wulfenst "you do the math" bro he's asking the expert who understands it theoretically the best. if he was confident in his math / his knowledge he wouldn't be asking the expert.
Good content!! Do you cast Outbreak during DRW? I see a lot of top logs casting it right on pull. The sim do it too...
Sim APL is not optimized for damage, but I'm actually not sure if it's the best use of the spell or not. I currently use it during DRW, and it seems like that is worth, but I'm not 100% if it is or not.
Does the haste development change your thoughts on best race for blood DK? Does 1% haste as a Goblin change your opinion?
Not really no-- you only go goblin if you want the added mobility, but troll>orc>goblin is still the play.
@@Riyaniwow Thanks! If I am a Goblin, haste softcap would be 1322 then ya?
will the Haste build still being good for phase 2?
Hey thanks for the shortened video, what is the haste cap though? i am guessing it effects rune speed more than anything
There's no real "cap," but a number that a lot of people strive for is 1421 as it gives you 7.5 sec rune speed which lines up nicely with your global CDs.
@@Riyaniwow This is only partly accurate; there is a cap. Diminsihing returns exists and given current ilevel restraints 1400 should be roughly aimed at, 7.5 is the magic number, but being a little above or below it hardly impacts gameplay at all.
Hit to Cap > Expertise to Soft Cap> Haste to 1400> Mastery=Stam> Everything else, even subsequent haste stacking.
Hi Riyani thanks for this vid. Got one question on chimaron dk solo tank. Under the buff, dk can’t die with more than 10k shield I get that. But without the buff, how should I deal with the damage under 4 breaks. I could use all the cd and externals but what if they ran out? And then rng?
Hey bud-- the tank that tanks during the feud phase will also be the one with aggro going into the last phase, so he'll have fewer stacks. Before he dies you'll be able to stack up a full blood shield. Then just pop your CDs once you're tanking and hope the boss dies before you do.
How do you go about reforging/stat prio in this method?
What I would do first is reset all your reforge (so you know what your stats are baselvl), and then regem all your gear with either pure str(if you dont need the bonus), str/haste, str/stam if you need a color for a good bonus on the item( It could be argued to do stam instead of str, but I think logs shows they are about the same in effectiveness so its down to personal perf, since even if you did stam instead of str its only about 7K in increase hp without extra buffs) . Then start with your least important secondary stats (crit, dodge, parry- str grants parry so you can safely reforge out of it) on your gear and reforge until you get hit and exp soft cap. whatever is left convert to haste. When deciding to reforge mast to haste, you want to be between 10-15 on your character sheet, so thats like 500-1150 ish in mastery. As long you dont go below 10( this is based on logs of the top 100 bdks that are haste builds and I averaged the values), convert mast to haste, you might end up with gear that your not sure what to do, like an item with crit/haste but you were already hit/exp cap before you got to that item, there its personal choice to leave it for the extra dps, or convert the crit to really whatever you want, mast, parry, dodge, if youre going to go over 15 mast, id go parry, but by that time youll be in full heroic gear and this comment is not needed anymore anyway lol.
I love the video but can't agree with the weak auras argument. Everyone should be aware of what's happening in the fight. When you have people with key rolls go down, someone will need to replace them, or its a wipe. Same for raid leaders. They definitely need all of that info.
mastery also increases the blood shield no? not jus thealing like he said
Mastery doesn't increase the healing portion, only the shield. We just refer to the absorb + healing as overall healing.
what's snapshot ?
Snapshot is when you maximize your stats in order to use an ability which gains the benefit over it's entire duration.
For example, the pet scales with strength and haste, so if you have lust, fallen crusader proc, strength pot, etc. when you pop your pet, then it'll keep those stat values for the entire 1 minute duration, even if the buffs fade on you.
@@Riyaniwow uhhh that's huge, I didn't know about that. Thanks for taking the time to answer
we getting into it today?
But more stam= more vengeance = more ap = higher dps and more healing from highest DS?
No, the DS heal is still based on a percentage of the damage that you have taken in the last 5 secs. Gear upgrades will increase the damage of the strike but not the healing. Normally, getting more gear will actually decrease your DS heal simply because you become more tanky, take less damage and in turn heal yourself for less.
@@JAlvarez1104 depends, the minimum heal is 7% of your max HP and ~40-50% of your DS will be minimum, so more hp does increase both the heal and the blood shield from those specific instances.
The conversation is haste vs mast-- I think both of us still gem stam and value it higher than either stat.