Canon Events DON'T EXIST! (Spider-Man Across The Spider-Verse Theory)
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- Опубликовано: 25 дек 2024
- today we discuss across the spider verse once again, this time touching on canon events and why they might be a LIE
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Outro Song - • TheFatRat - Rise Up
Dr. Strange said it best, "The Multiverse is a concept of which we know frighteningly little." 2099 simply doesn't have the full picture and how can he when we're dealing with infinite universes of infinite possibilities, his method so far may have worked but he's not aware of the other myriad of methods to stabilizing the Multiverse that both Miles and Gwen are starting to pick up on.
Dr. Strange also stated to Spider-Man that the Multiverse doesn't care if a few people die. It's Cold Calculus. Peter 1 and his friends rejected that...The events of No Way Home happen. Miguel knows of those events and considers both Strange and Peter 1 as fuck ups. Even when they fix it find a different method...Miguel doesn't care. Because Miguel will not stop what he's doing no matter what...He's gone insane he's gone evil.
@@flamesofchaos13eh he ain't evil
@@flamesofchaos13 he's not evil, it's just that his personal experience scarred him so much that he is so fixated on it, that can't think of other options, or at least, doesn't think he have time to think of other options.
And also, peter 1 and strange didn't fix it cleanly, yes they stopped other people from getting into their universe, but it still caused problems on the multiverse, like strange himself said so in the of nwh, and what we saw in MoM.
Yeah.
@@flamesofchaos13speaking of no way home. Does Miguel know about Tom hollands Spider-Man? Wasn’t the end of that movie making EVERYONE across all dimensions forget who he is?
It seems Hobbie Brown knows something about Miguel and knew Gwen would need a watch in the future but for Miles...he told him "make your own watch". Which to me means Hobbie Brown knows Miles can make a watch if he needed to.
There is a subtle parallel between kingpin from the first movie and Miguel. Both of them tried to use multidimensional travel to unite with family members and this action destabilized the multiverse.
Perhaps it isn’t canon events and their breaking which destabilizes things but the attempt to undo events already done.
spot wasnt in mumbattan because miles was there, he was there because there was an alchemax in mumbattan, spot was going around the different dimensions looking for alchemax, not miles. the attack would have happened whether miles was there or not.
Miles created him when he blew up the collider. Without miles he would have never existed.
@@Spawnofgolden no cause if peter from earth 1610 blew it up it would have been the same anyway, if it wasn't for the collider that brought the spider here then spot would never exist
@@LonderwOo0 we don't know how it would've happened, i don't think we ever saw him the first time in the collider so it's possible that he just wasn't there that day for one reason of another.
@@ollidragon3146 valid arguement but "possible" is not a strong word. Idk let's just wait for the 3rd movie
@@LonderwOo0 i dont think the collider would've blown up (or at least not as violently) if it had been shut down via the goober as intended, Miles deciding to throw a whole electrified Kingpin into it to short circuit it is likely what lead to such an explosive reaction
My theory is that it's the Spot that is the original Anomaly, he is the one who first opened holes in the Multiverse and cause the events of Spiderverse 1 (alongside Olivia Octavius), the Spot created Spider-Miles and then he gave powers to the Spot with the whole Bagel Effect thing. The Mumbattan Canon Event was not supposed to happen but Spot changed the story to include himself in it.
Miguel then called the stories of all the Spiders as "The Web of Life and Destiny", which in the comics is the thread that connects all universes toghether and allow them to communicate with each other safely like we see in all other Spiderverse stories. However, unlike previous stories, the Spot is opening holes in the web and making the connections weaker causing parts of the web to fall apart.
I believe that Miguel is only misunderstanding what is causing the connections to get weaker and believing that is because of the Canon Events when in reality is the Spot going around causing trouble. The reason why Miguel's alternate universe collapsed is because 2099 is the not only a different dimension but also the future for many of the Spiders (the future of universe 616 and 616B, for example).
Miguel is desperate to maintain the Canon as is because if his universe's connection with the others weakens because they change too much, his future stops making sense and his universe is then destroyed.
In a meta sense, the canon of the past is changed too much for 2099 to exist so the comic line has to be either scrapped or severely changed. Originally, Miles didn't exist and Miguel became Spider-Man as a successor to Peter, but if Miles is the successor then the canon doesn't make sense. Miguel wants to eliminate Miles from the canon so that 2099 can survive.
What the Spiderverse ultimately needs is for someone who understands the Web fully and can maintain the connections strong. In the comics we have Madame Web, I wonder if are going to see someone like that in Spiderverse 3.
Finally, what Miguel doesn't understand is that a Spider-Man that stands by when someone needs help is the most Non-Canonical thing for Spider-Man to do. Miles saving his dad or the chief in Mumbattan is actually making the Canon stronger, not weaker In my opnion.
the spot can’t have caused spiderverse 1 because he became the spot only because of miles throwing kingpin into the supercollider
@@wivx9408 The Spot made the events of SpiderVerse 1 happen, he collaborated with Olivia Octavius to build the machine for Kingpin. By how he talks I believe that the supercollider project was mostly his idea that Olivia then made happen since he replicated the whole thing in his apartment to recharge his powers. The supercollider brought Spider 42 and made Spider-Miles by changing his destiny and in turn Miles changed the destiny of a background character by making him the Sport.
@@iltiziocongliocchiali2301 oh yeah u right my bad
This is actually a really good theory. I think Miguel has misunderstood the causes of the destruction of the multiverses but he does not realise this and rather prevent anyone from taking a risk as he did not want to see another universe being destroyed like his own.
The fact that Gwen’s universe didn’t even collapse despite her father not becoming captain anyone should be a “disruption of canon events” yet nth happened. This therefore supports the theory that Miguel has misunderstood smt.
Also the holes that formed to “destroy” Indian Spider-Man’s universe looked more like the holes that Spot creates compared to the one that destroyed Miguel’s universe. This could mean that Miguel had assumed that Miles disrupting the “canon” event as the cause when it’s actually the doing of Spot. The fact that the only reason why the life of Captain in the Indian Spider-Man’s world was put in danger was because Spot (an anomaly) appeared and destroyed the building. This meant that the Captain wouldn’t have died regardless if spot wasn’t there in the first place
@@dragongirl3148 Precicely. This movie is very meta with all the references to other Spider-Man stories, and in all of those the multiverse never collapsed because other people interfeared: Shattered Dimendions, Edge of Time, Spider-Verse comic event and the multiverse episodes in the '90s cartoon prove this. If Canon Events are to be taken as real across all Spider-Man media then the MCU, many of the past games and cartoons and even the main comic universe break that rule in spades already and they are completely fine.
Miguel is just mistaken about the whole thing and is heavily projecting his own insecurities and fears on Miles. The thing he says about Miles not meant to be Spider-Man is obviously referring to himself as he is the only Spider-Man not having been bit by a spider but rather having been mutated with spider DNA in his origin.
The other Spiders that follow him closely are also like that: Spider-Woman Jessica Drew is also like Miguel and in the real world meta she only exist for copyright reasons, while Ben Reily is a clone of Peter born with powers and still only exist in the canon because fans like him from the '90s cartoon and because his suit looks cool.
My thought is that Miguel is jealous of Miles, because Miles became Spider-man when he is not supposed to and not only his world remained safe, but also other Spider people (Gwen and Peter B Parker) started changing their destinies without causing anomalies; while Miguel's only anomaly he created ended up destroying the entire world, I think even the entire Universe. Hence, his violent tendencies towards Miles.
Fair enough but I don’t think he would bother then. He didn’t want Miles to be part of them because Miles could cause problems if he knows that he is the reason the universe isn’t stable. Miles came and that’s exactly what happened.
If that's the case then, ALL the other Spiders would have tried to stop him, so that claim is REACHING.
@@TheInfamousWolf Well, if you noticed, he was nice and logical in front of the other Spider people, moving to rude and violent when it was just him and Miles.
I was kinda expecting him to be jealous of Peter B Parker because Peter B Parker gets to keep his daughter.
@Idread ? And why Peter B Parker had a kid? Because of his interaction with Miles.
I also think that it's not a coincidence that the 3 spiderman that chase miles at the end (Jess, Ben and Miguel) are spidermen that got their powers from uncommon ways.
That scene where Miguel is about to bite Renaissance Vulture isn't a kill move, he has venom in his fangs that harmlessly paralyzes anything he bites, he's trying to end the fight non-violently.
6:50 Miles : ,,CLAWS?? Are you even a Spider-Man”
Miles HIMSELF said it
I think the canon for 1610 and 42 miles have swapped with each other. Miguel shows Miles a scene of his dad dying but what if this was the canon from for 42 Miles because his dad is dead and 1610 Miles has expierienced his one with his uncle dying. This would lead to 1610 Miles' father staying alive during the next movie.
that’d make sense because the event that killed miles uncle was actually the event that made the prowler. and the event that killed miles dad was the event that created spiderman
Huh, interesting.
Miguel didn't show Miles his dad dying, it was his Uncle. Which means Miles IS a Spider-Man since he had a "Canon Event"
Then the mom dies
I would like to give my theory on the canon events. I think canon events can be disrupted, as in changed but not completely stopped, it needs to have a logical continuation like how a storyteller would tell a story for the canon event to continue on. For example, Gwen's dad didn't undergo the death set by the canon event because he quit his job as captain after learning Spider Woman's identity. While for Inspector Singh, the canon event was stopped because Miles (counted as an anomaly as he came from another dimension) swooped in and save Inspector Singh. From a storytelling perspective of the Mumbattan world, it makes zero sense, therefore creating the black hole. The canon event was always meant to happened for Inspector Singh, its just that Spot came and the storyline rewritten itself to kill him (again, it was a matter of time before the own research team activated the collider and caused the Alchemax building to be destroyed, Spot just made the event happened earlier).
dude thats actually really good🤔🤔🤔❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@crossedoutpebz Thanks I’ve been thinking about it for quite a while after the movie😂
I also think the destruction of a universe, like what happened to Miguel, happens when a universe's storyline is disrupted beyond repair. I personally think Miguel may be lying, and killed the alternate version of himself he replaced, which messed up the storyline beyond repair. From a meta perspective, if a Spiderman storyline is completely botched, that comic line might come to an end, destroying the universe the storyline happens in. Also been thinking about this a lot lol
Sheeah this is rly good theory
Plot holes fr (Edit: If you don't get what I mean, this is a pun, I don't mean that there's a literal plot hole in the movie.)
I think what's even weirder is how Miguel knows these things. The existence of the society in general. If he truly believed that we spider people shouldn't interrupt each others' universes since it would disturb canon events, why give them watches? Why allow them to go to each oher's universes? How did he even know this is possible? How does he know who is an anomaly and who isn't? It's very weird. I don't trust Miguel.
I'm pretty sure he hand picks everyone in the organisation, meaning he has a level of trust towards everyone that has a watch. So there is no need to worry most of the time, everyone knows the consequences and no spiderman picked by Miguel would do something bad.
He also only found out about the effects of disrupting the canon events after creating the society, since we can see many spiderman in the recording of a worlds destruction.
How does he know it's possible? He's a scientist of the future, it is likely he invented the technology trying to find a world where he could be with his family again.
We've been shown in the movie that the spider society has a way of knowing which world has an intruder (they found out where the Spot was), meaning it's just abother scanning technology
it actually makes sense if you think about it. its possible that he created the watch because there was villain who crossed into his universe. and he realized what happened.
so he went on to "fix it", with the help of others.
These watches allowed them to fight the anomalies MCU Peter made or other anomalies that are made (Vulture)
Its explained in the Movie.
I don't trust him either he's being very shady & secretive look at how he chooses who gets to be part of his special strike team despite her skills against the Vulture & Jessica asking him he didn't want Gwen on his team. And when Gwen refused to accompany them to find Miles he sends her home saying "I knew it was a mistake" meaning he knew he couldn't trust Gwen from the beginning but he wanted to see how loyal she was to him. He never answered Gwen's question about the cannon he did an about face, got in Gwen's face to assert his power & dominance over her like "How dare you question me minion."
Miguel does have spider powers they are just different from the typical Spiderman powers. He has the usual enhanced speed strength healing etc, venomous fangs like a spider which paralyze, he has organic webbing, enhanced eye sight ( can see farther, see better in the dark), he also has talons like that of a spider. if anything I'd say that Miguel is the most like a spider than other spider people.
But one thing all these spiders have in common is that they have spider sense and Miguel doesn't have that thanks genetically altered DNA
@@donkeymonkey2518 indeed so, but I don’t think that makes him not spider man per-se. Anyone can wear the mask.
theres a difference between being a spider and being a spider-man
@@kevinsarow8655 I get that, but spider sense is part of a bigger spectrum that interconnects all the spider people in every universe together, like what happened when gwen could sense miles was in another universe
I think the world Miles was in didn't change, because no canon event was truly disrupted. While Peter Parker died, miles sort of took his place as the Spiderman, so that the world wouldn't realise anything changed.
It would work the opposite way with Miguel: Spiderman 2099 died, but since Miguel took his place, the world took it as if he is the same person and thus the canon event (Spidermans death) didn't trigger, leading to destruction
This literally is contradictory
If miles replaced spiderman the same thing that happened to Miguel would've happened to Miles.
You're also missing a key factor which is the fact that Gwen revealed herself to her father which caused the anomaly which actually SAVED her father. As Miguel stated if a police captain is known their fate is destiny, but Gwen contradicts that by making him quit when she reveals herself. Hence why he was so pissed off and probably jealous.
@@FunkeMunke_ you're missing the point. Miguel was supposed to die, but since the other one replaced him - the canon broke. Spiderman was not supposed to die, he only did because of Miles, which is why Miles replacing him is not breaking the caonon.
As for Gwen - she's didn't break the canon, it would seem. No capitan has been saved, it is likely if she meets another one - he'll die.
@@matthewzaslavets8423 bro i get it now, (miles universe) so peter died at the collider trying to protect miles, which is his fault (anomaly). so when he gets bit the universe stablizes. (miguel’s universe) in miguel’s universe he died(canon event), story for spiderman over, but main miguel hops into that one’s spot(anomaly). making the universe like “hold up, tf” causing a black hole. therefore the universe never stabilizes. that’s what i got from your comment
@@sirhostiile5144 yep, that's my theory
@@ch42965 it sounds fun and actually reasonable
I have a theory. There are two types of anomalies.
A trigger and a fuse.
What you explained in the video about the Miles and Spot in Mumbatthan, Spot is a anomaly and Miguel says Miles is a anomaly too.
Since Miles blew up the collider in 1610, it caused Spot to be an anomaly.
Spot is the fuse anomaly and Miles is the trigger, since Spot was in Mumbattan, Miles came to Mumbattan and Miles caused the Spot to travel to Mumbattan in search of getting more powerful.
thats actually very interesting🤔🤔❤️❤️❤️
So to explain further, since Miles is described as a anomaly by Miguel, Miles caused a disruption in 1610 where that Peter died and Spot was created. Spot is a confirmed anomaly who is in search of getting more powerful because of Miles pulling the “trigger” to Spot’s “fuse”.
Although there are some grey areas like how Miles saved Captain Singh because of Spot destroying Alchemax, and Miles going to Mumbattan because Spot was there, but the original cause to it was Miles setting off a chain reaction.
Wouldn’t the spot be the original anomaly though? The whole reason the spot exists is because he brought the spider from Earth 42 over when he was still working at Alchamex. The spider bit miles and then miles got involved with all the super collider stuff and made the spot. It wouldn’t have happened if the 42 spider hadn’t been transported from a diff universe by him.
@@Kaiclysm the Spot wouldn’t have been the original anomaly since he was just a normal human when he transported the spider across.
THISSSSS is what i’ve been trying to explain!! although we don’t see any “technical” signs of the canon being broken directly because of Miles, his existence as spider-man caused a chain reaction that still poses a great threat to the multiverse: The Spot. you said everything perfectly
Minty: "The whole dimension will cease to exist if a canon event is disrupted." Me: (Fails to get a job so i disrupted a canon event.)
I had seen elsewhere someone pointed out, if this canon theory is to be believed, there are three outliers. Specifically people who were not actually bitten by a radioactive spider (Or in Spider-Ham's canon a radioactive pig...) Those three are Miguel, Reilley, and Drew.
In the comics, Miguel had half his DNA spliced with a spider's DNA as part of a plot to keep Miguel from leaving Alchemax. He has physical attributes of a spider, (claws/talons, super-strength/speed/durability, fangs and venom glands) but he does lack the spider-sense and the ability to stick to surfaces (he uses his claws and talons to climb).
Reilley canonically was clone of Peter Parker (I assume 616) who was created to fight Peter. And while it could count as being bitten since he is a clone, his DNA was post-bite Peter so that may not count.
Drew is a mixed bag, and probably the biggest wildcard. Originally she was created as a one-off placeholder for a copyright of Spider-Woman (back when Marvel and DC were fighting for copyrighting heroes and names) When her one-off took off, they initially made her origin to be an actual spider evolved into a human. That idea was quickly scrapped and they made a whole thing where she was the daughter of scientists and she had some rare disorder. Her father experimented on a cure, used irradiated spider blood in it, and inject his infant daughter with it and put her in an incubator. Mom died and dad left the incubator with family, and thanks to SCIENCE Drew emerges from the incubator after a month nearly-full-grown and with spider powers. Writers and editors didn't really have a real handle on Drew as a character, so she was tossed around in stories as people left their work on her to the next editor/writer. So technically she wasn't bitten by a radioactive spider.
Another interesting thing I noted was Drew's pregnancy in the movie was... maybe halted... time-wise? When they meat Gwen she looked very pregnant (which is fine of course) but when you fast-forward "a few months" when Gwen goes to Earth-1610B. That could be a nothing-something, but worth noting since you get a sense the team doesn't seem to leave random things lying around.
The way I see it, what will happen in Beyond will have to center around Spider-42. Specifically the how and the why from the collider being used. If you go back and watch ITSV, as Miles heads to his new school his former classmates ask about, "that earthquake last night." I get a feeling that earthquake was the collider being used to pull the 42-spider to 1610B, time-wise it lines up with Miles getting bitten.
As an amusing final note, you can see Earth-42 has very little info and most of it is related to the movies (with a bit related to Miles comic canon). It may seem the number is random, but I don't think it is. Those of us who are Douglas Adams fans know the number. 42 is "the answer to life, the universe, and everything" from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
I'm waiting for the destiny weaver and the 'other' to come in at the third movie and say "miguel your canon even theory doesn't work"
I think that what happens in Spider-Man Indias universe just happened because of the spot, when Miguel is showing his backstory and that universe being destroyed it looks like the whole universe is glitching, but in Mumbattan it looks like a black hole, like the spot. I think Miguel’s whole theory is wrong, Mayday is an anomaly, Gwen’s dad after he quits, even Miguel and his 2 closest people to him (Jessica Drew and Scarlet Spider) are anomalies. Miguel’s powers came from an experiment, Jessica Drew’s from the high evolutionary (I think) and the scarlet spider is a clone. None of these have the proper cannon events
The real imposters were among us the whole time
What "High Evolutionary"? Do you mean Hydra?
5:54 also if Miles never got bitten, the Spot wouldn't even exist in the first place. Miles was the one who threw the bagel and the Spot is after. Also without Miles Spot wouldn't even discover he can travel to dimensions.
I mean, technically speaking Miles-42 is the first Anomaly. Pre-Bagel Spot warped Spider-42 away from Earth-42, meaning Miles-42 didn't become Spider-Man when he was supposed to. It was only some time _after_ that event did Miles-1610 get bitten and receive his powers.
So Miguel is already jumping to conclusions without thinking.
we dont rly know if miles was the one to become spiderman in earth 42.
My guess would be that Peter Parker didn't become spiderman there, leading to many deaths and crimes including father of Miles 42 and by the lack of these two good rolemodels Miles leaned towards Aarons ways of working and became the prowler.
also in into the spiderverse when Miles meet Spiderman and their spider sense kicks in, Miles's colors shift from green and purple to red and blue indicating that he was leaning towards his uncles ways
@@tobiaszbrzezinski9473 In the exposition scene where Spot explains his origin, you actually see Spider-42 creeping up on Miles-42 before Spot warped it to Earth-1610.
Miles-42 was supposed to be that world's Spider-Man. Spot changed things, so he and Miles-1610 effectively swapped destinies.
@@K2niarDneK good point
apparently i missed it
edit: oh it's in the video here, but i wrote my comments before watching XD
I saw a theory somewhere that the Miguel we see in Across is actually an impostor and the real Miguel (the real spider-man with powers) is trapped somewhere trying to get back to his universe and they will help the real Miguel get out in Beyond.
I would prefer that and could be part of theory why miquel always wears the watch even in universe
What’s insane is that IMDb put this movie in the number 11 spot for the top 250 movies of all time, I hope this is the first animated movie to win an Oscar for movie of the year
I think it will get a nomination for best film. It’s a shoo in to win best animated film.
It's not going to happen.
The original was even better, and it didn't win. It wasn't even nominated. Bohemian Rhapsody was nominated that year.
@@me-myself-i787 tf is the slander between animated films. HOW DID BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY GET NOMINATED BUT NOT SPIDERVERSE!
@@dreyishere the awards shows are so out of touch it’s honestly painful
I think Miguel was the original anomaly and either knows or doesn't know and then puts the blame on miles.
I do believe he knows he's the villain. He says miles being Spiderman caused the other Spiderman to die in his universe however when Miguel travels to be with his daughter the spiderman in that universe didn't die and he somehow remained after it's thread 'unravelled'.
@connorfarrell3391 the whole movie of ATSV is about standing out and going against the norm and doing your own thing and being different but did Miles really do that if he did something everybody (audience) could get behind and sided with him and shit on Miguel? Wouldn’t applying the lesson IRL mean siding with Miguel?
Also I love how Spider-Man fans say Miguel is completely wrong and unreasonable but would hate any spider-man adaptation in which uncle Ben lived and didn’t die, and fans wanted MCU Peter to suffer consequences and loss and not have it all/the easy way out, and would NWH and PS4 be as popular as they were if Aunt May didn’t die?
A lot of people that just shit on Miguel are blinded by their emotional hormones and lack any rational intelligence and can’t consider the other side and only see black and white and can’t see that neither side is completely right or wrong
Spider-Man fans do not want to be wrong and always want to be right and on the winning side
Miguel is meant to represent the Spider Man fandom as a whole. directors pointed out that this idea of the canon acts as a critique of spiderfans who act as though all Spider-Men have to go through the same "canon" moments. And that any adaptation that doesn't is "an anomaly" or wrong and is treated harshly. It sounds like Spider-Man fans are projecting their self absorbed and insecure demands onto Miguel and don’t want to be wrong
People are so caught up in calling out the already established inconsistencies in the canon event idea that they don’t understand or acknowledge the thematic significance of canon events as a representation of “necessary story beats (especially for Spider-Man)” that they for years want to happen all the time but can’t admit they were wrong or were challenged by that.
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 what is blud yappin’ about?
@@Kozmokast The truth
Something else, is that Miguel says that Miles' dad has to die for him to lose someone close to him, but Miles already did. He lost his Uncle Aaron in the first movie, and Miguel's explanation of the multiverse even calls back to that.
You know what other canon death happened to Miles? Peter Parker. Two people he's looked up to has already died in front of him
@@captainfalcon3742 Miguel be like: NOPE we gotta make it 3 just to be safe!
Did anyone else notice about 51 minutes into the movie the computer screens Miguel was watching? One had Spider-Punk, a few have the Spot and the big one that goes floating by has Miles and Gwen on the roof looking at Gwen's watch. I wonder how long Miguel has been watching them. And why is Miguel more concerned with Miles then the Spot. It doesn't add up.
I personally think that not just spider people experience canon events, but just people in general. Basically, all villains would have a canon event, Kingpin losing his family, The Spot getting hit by a bagel(?), And Miles, if he was never bitten by Spider-42, losing uncle, blaming Spider-Man for his death, and becoming the Prowler.
Honestly when Miles disrupts the Canon Event in Mumbattan, I don't think *that* caused the singularity to form, the singularity was from Spot. You can see that the Alchemex building that's falling down is building up with some sort of black substance that looks just like his portals, and it would make sense considering he just absorbed the energy of the particle accelerator and blew up the building doing so.
On top of that, it's very clear that Miguel isn't telling everyone the full story, but I'm not 100% sure what the real story is. Either he's leaving out important details as to what caused his second reality to be destroyed, or he doesn't quite know what the rules of the multiverse are and is just assuming. I have some crackpot and unconfirmed theories such as maybe he meddled with that reality too much, or maybe that the reality we see as his "home" isn't actually where he's from, but I haven't been able to rewatch the movie to find evidence on either front.
That is true about spot, because in Miles’ universe, when spot used an energy source to create more spots, everything imploded causing multiple dozens of his “holes” to shoot & spread everywhere throughout the building he was in.
Miguel caused an incursion. The canon isn’t real. Well that’s what I’m guessing. I just think that there is a specific reason why when Miguel shows a hologram of what he describes as “EVERYTHING”, it’s no coincidence why it looks exactly like the sacred timeline from Loki after it started branching off.
Across the Spider-Verse is not an MCU film (and no, the few non-reciprocal references are not enough because the film refers to the entire history of Spider-Man, not just the MCU), so we cannot not use the MCU rules for this film.
The opposite is also true. Why in the MCU have we never had Glitch?
They never really explained Miguel's backstory beyond him going to a different world and fucking that up. Maybe what happened before explains what the canon really is.
If Prowler 42 was supposed to be spiderman, then why is His Universe Not Unraveling Yet?
4:44 the difference is that pavitrs canon event was interrupted while TECHNICALLY miles never broke any of his canon (yet) he has gotten biten, has lost his uncle, the whole deal.
spot was explicitly after the alchemaxes, he would've shown up to the one in earth-50501 regardless (he also showed up in that dimension before gwen or miles arrived). it seems like the building would have exploded in the same way even if pavitr was the only one trying to stop him
Also, why didn't Earth-42 crumble after the spider was stolen from it, thereby preventing _all_ canon events?
There's more. 1610 Miles isn't even responsible for the anomaly. 1610 Doc Ock and The Spot are. They were the ones who brought the Earth-42 spider in the first place!
Always found weird how Miguel managed to get this many spider-people without actually having full on spider powers. Comicswise he should have some of the spider-people’s powers but much weaker and with no spidersense. Hope they get into that on the next one. Great video, loved to see someone else noticed the inconsistencies on the movie haha
You’re wrong Miguel is stronger than Peter and all his sense are amplified by a lot so that makes up for the spider sense that he doesn’t posses. He also has his fangs and claws so if he bites Peter it’s over for him same thing with miles all he has is his camouflage and venom blast but that ain’t gonna help if Miguel can sense Mike’s while invisible and that venom blast wouldn’t kill Miguel so spider man 2099 is just stronger than both
exactly my point, his means of attack are more lethal, while our spider man only tries to deter his enemies not kill them, on a certain level miguel is no better than the villains hes fighting
@@vibingwithjoseph4100no he’s not stronger
@@vibingwithjoseph4100 Overall Miguel is still weaker, but he doesn’t seem to have limitations, as stated on the video things like killing dont seem to be off the table for him. While Peter and the spider people have to constantly restrain themselves to not punch people’s jaw off like Doc oc did with scorpion in superior spiderman after taking peter’s body. Miguel just doesn’t really have that raw power so he compensates with other stuff.
@Minty I agree that he has "more lethal" ways of attacking but he never uses it, he used it once where he accidentally killed a specialist, but besides that he hasn't used it. And his fangs produce a non lethal venom
the prowler already existed on 1610 when miles got bit
I think the writers are introducing what is call an information hazard. The moment you consider all possible things being linked and that the things that don't happen around you happen somewhere else is the moment you can no longer believe that only your existence is important. If your universe is not special then it makes it expendable. It's a cognitive dissonance in your mind to simultaneously believe your universe is important while also believing other universes exist. Miles represents the person who lets go of this dissonance and simply accepts the existence of all worlds while Miguel represents someone who believes that no universe is special, not even his. It's the extremes of decision making. You can either calculate the perfect next step you take in life or you simply take that next step and do your best.
I still don't understand how Miguel's universe was "erased" or "moved" just because he took the place of someone else's dad for a year. We have seen other people live in other universes just fine. Is it because Miguel was there for a long time? Wasn't it just 1 year though? Did he do too many heroic deeds as a spiderman and 'dad' in another universe that it completely changed everything? Well how does that explain Miles' universe and the earth 42? IT was completely changed and is fine. Even Gwen's dad quit.... I don't understand.
OR maybe did something happen to Miguel's daughters' universe that had nothing to do with him? He just assumed that he caused all the damage?
Miguel is the anomaly....he made himself into Spiderman and he was never bitten by a spider. On top of that he's the only one in the universe there's no other Miguel.
hes not a vampire those fangs are just spider fangs that knocks enemies out not kill...
Note: There's this thing called absolute point in time, which is literally a canon event that is applied to individuals instead of a group of people.
Anyways I think miles is a different kind of anomaly. His universe is intact because he's still spider man nonetheless and part of the web of life and destiny, meaning he is vulnerable to canon events. Earth 42 miles wasn't bitten yet and therefore no canon events. When the collider went off and wasn't supposed to in the original timeline in the final battle of itsv, it caused the multiverse disruption. As for miguel lying or being wrong, the spot is supposedly an anomaly because he wasn't supposed to exist. In what if episode 4, doctor strange tries to save christine, but whatever he tries, she'll just die in a different way because it's an absolute point in time. So I'm guessing even if the spot wasn't there, the inspector still would've died, just in a different way. Miguel's the leader because he has the multiverse technology from 2099 obviously.
Yeah 2099 IS the Anomaly. He's a narcissist or he's projecting. He's blaming Miles for what he is guilty of.
I think canon events can be disrupted but not fully avoidable like if you stop someone from dying the canon will balance it out and kill someone else so that algorithm stays intact
Why does the universe collapse simply by saving someone from another universe? Wouldn’t a death that wasn’t supposed to happen also ruin the canon? If every Spider-Man’s story is foretold as canon, wouldn’t crossing dimensions and interacting with other Spider-People also be considered canon? If that’s not true, then wouldn’t simply crossing over to a different universe be breaking the canon? Wouldn’t Miles, the walking talking anomaly be corrupting everything he touches? Wouldn’t Spot? We are missing a bunch of details and I hope someone with more knowledge, like Madam Web, comes in to explain it.
Also, notice, in the chase scene when Miguel is using his claws, miles says, "Are you even spiderman?" He was angry at miles before, but when miles said that, he went *BESERK*.
Miguel is not a Spider-Man. He is a Prowler.
I also subscribe to that theory
i didn't have a choice, not my fault the spider was teleported to me and bite me
spot in the first movie, (when he was working for funny big man) stole the earth 42 radioactive spider, and managed to accidently let it go loose causing it to end up by the subway somehow and biting our miles. either miguel is mistaken for thinking miles is the problem or he is not who he says he is, thats just what i think though.
one of the greatest theories i've heard yet! the production on point too, much love, stay onna grind
Also gwen stopped her dad from being a cop but you know that might be different
Great video! i just wanted to mention another detail. when we first meet Prowler Miles, his face is lit up with blue and red. Spider-Man colors. And the strike team Miguel brings along w/ him to catch Miles ALSO dont have the same canon events as everyone else! Ben Reilly is a clone, so he was BORN with spider powers, he was never bitten. And Jessica Drew was never bitten by a spider either! her backstory changes a lot in the comics, from being injected with a spider-blood serum, or originally being a spider that evolved into a human being. She was never bitten either. Its really interesting that Miguel’s team also aren’t traditional spider people!
Naw I heard she was born with it or mind controlled by Hydra to believe she was a spider.
The thing I love about spider verse theories is unlike other movie theories, they are often true, due to the deep understanding and idea the directors have for the film and all the small details they hide throughout, it’s great.
I think Spot may have created the "Captain's death" canon event whenever he absorbed the dark matter in Mumbattan, which is why Miles disrupting it immediately after would be the thing to trigger the hole. That would also explain why when Miles sees glimpes of his dad's death, he also sees Singh. And it makes sense from Spot's POV too, since all he really knows about Spider-Man's personal life is that he has a close relationship with a police captain, so he takes that away in every universe.
Is it off the table that 2099 isn’t who he says he is? I remember 2099 being more serious than your average Spider-Man but he just seems ………..off and isn’t one of 2099 villains like a shapeshifter or something?
In away, the Peter Park of earth1610 who died, was a bit of an anomaly or at least not cannon. He was happily married to Mary Jane and he was a well liked and repected hero. He seemed to have had a charmed life as Spider-Man. Where don't most Spiders end up as outlaws because of J. Jonah Jameson? But, I am not all that knowledgeable anymore in all things Spider-Man.
Also earth 42 miles was supposed to be the one and only spiderman because the mother had no idea who spiderman was meaning there was no such thing as a spiderman on that earth.
I feel Miguel isn’t being fully truthful. The cannon event that happened in Mumbatten to me looks to be caused by the collider explosion as the black liquid slowly covers the building and Jessica Drew even calls it a quantum hole. The other reason I believe this is in the footage Miguel shows of him breaking the cannon. It looks more like the waves from a collider like seen like ITSV. I believe a collider has to be involved to destroy a universe and not what Miguel says. At the end of the Movie spider-man India is on Gwen’s band. If miles had caused his universe to implode why would he be there?
Something that interests me is that although Miles may be considered the original anomaly, it wasn't his choice to be bit. If I remember correctly Miguel said he's been watching to make sure no anomalies go to a different universe but if he was watching why didn't he stop the spider from biting Miles? Was it already too late to stop the events that were about to occur? Why is he being blamed for all this when it was the Spot who originally did the experiment that made the spider go from earth 42 to earth 1610? Another thing I want to know is what if the spider bit earth 42 Miles and before getting smacked gets transported to earth 1610 and bites that version of Miles? Would both worlds start to destroy themselves? I personally don't trust Miguel as when Gwen started to interrogate him about the canon events being true he shouted "do you want to find out?!" as if he didn't want to admit he doesn't know everything about the canon events but doesn't want to risk it as one universe did collapse.
I assumed that anomalies only started crossing dimensions after 1610's alchemax first tore the hole that allowed interdimensional crossing, so considering the first ever instance of an anomaly was the 42 spider i doubt Miguel would have even started monitoring the different dimensions yet. I guess he was already monitoring his own universe and then became aware of the rip in the spiderverse that allowed travel between dimensions, which led him to become the overseer of all the universes and to form the spider society. He's still suspicious but he also might have just got stuck with the job since he's a scientist in the universe with the most advanced tech that we've seen and is probably the only one who knows how to use it
In the post-credits scene in the first movie you can see how Miguel had only just finished making the watch after the events of the movie had happened. He mentions something like he was only gone for like 2 hours and all of that had happened so he had no idea of the spider from earth 42 being in the wrong universe. This means this is also before he made the spider society and had known about miles before meeting any other spider person, which in my opinion is very interesting.
@@JJafan. that's actually interesting, I completely forgot about the post credits scene but the thing that's confusing for Miguel is why didn't he ever intervene before the spot started traveling dimensions during the second movie instead of only sending Gwen knowing she was in his words a "liability"
@@briochelover That's honestly why I don't trust him, he seems to know so much so he seems to make himself the leader of the spider society despite not even having the same abilities like other spider people that being spidey sense and the ability to stick and climb onto walls and when hes asked if what he believes in is true he doesn't elaborate as if hes hiding something but we're just going to have to wait and see for beyond the spiderverse
6:16 the spot would’ve been there anyways because he was getting more dark matter to become more powerful
Miguel does have a no-killing policy also the reason he was about to bite the vulture was because his fangs have a paralyzation syrum in them that he can inject into his enimies to keep them from moving. He also has supser senses and bright lights hurt his eyes which is why he stopped whenever the spotlight had shined on him also he uses his own organic webbing
Im happy that ouwer miles is spiderman i hope he wouldnt change
At Least Miles Got Bitten,But Miguel Just ran an Experiment To get his Powers. Miguel didn’t even get bitten and wasn’t supposed to be Spider-Man.
Miguel also wanted miles to be at spider hq when his dad dies, but part of the canon event is for the spiderman to see the police captain die right in front of them
that is true!!
The way KingPin gets in and out of cars breaks the spider-verse
Miguel also said that if Miles wasn’t bit, his Peter Parker wouldn’t have died, but do we know that? How do we know that if Miles wasn’t there, the same result wouldn’t have happened? It’s possible that he wouldn’t have died, but do we know that for sure? I think Miles’s Peter probably still would’ve died because it was Prowler who jumped him before he could shut off the machine and he was also fighting Goblin as well. We may never know.
We know that Miguel can run simmulations of auch events (he told Miles when his dad will die thanks to it, as said in the movie). Considering such simulations are used to predict the time of events, they seem to be reliable enough
Well, I think Peter Parker's resilience to stop the collider decreased knowing that if he fails, someone else will stop them. After all, I'm pretty sure he saw the other Spider people before the collider exploded.
Great video! Very intriguing…Miguel really only has the suit in common lol. Youve made me so hype for the next one
Your incorrect. Miguel has fangs , organic webs , and claws.
He literally has 50% spider DNA.
So therefore his suit isn't the only thing he has in common.
let's not forget that the alchemax building fell because of spots' holes
exactly❤️❤️❤️
Spot was after miles to prove he wasn’t a “villain of the week”, but he was mainly there for the collider bc he had been left his universe and traveled to others that had one as well
Man I’m loving all of this with Miguel and Miles!! It’s so intriguing
5:43 He would have though, he was traveling through the multiverse trying to get more spots. They tracked him there and Gwen left to stop him buy Miles followed her when he WAS supposed too. So more like it was a coincidence that Miles followed Gewn on her mission to stop the Spot, which happens to be his arch nemesis
Whether Miles followed Gwen or not he still would have been there to consume the colliders energy
Miguel is in fact, Spider-Man, what happend to him is that his boss, injects him with an drug so powerfull if he went to relapse he would die. In an attempt to fix this Miguel, since works at Alchemax, decides to rewrite his DNA with an old of one of his before the drug affected him, but in the proccess of it, an co-worker sabotages him, fusing his DNA with that of an spider, which gave him his somewhat different powers.
(That thing he injected in himself when miles first meets him, is most likely the drug.)
Honestly I think the reason we don't see Miles' universe get a black hole is simply that the writers weren't planning ahead, earlier in into the spider-verse we see Gwen not be able to save her Peter in what seems to be a factory/warehouse but in across the spider-verse she saves him at a school dance.
I mean, sure, of course they hadn't planned that while writing Into the Spiderverse, but that's just too big of a plothole hole to be left unaccounted for now that they've (seemingly) established this new rule. It'd be careless of them not to come up with an explanation, and nothing about these movies is careless.
You do have a point. But in the first movie, Gwen's Backstory wasn't important to the whole plot so it became a placeholder in the First movie. Unlike ATSV where Gwen (and her dad I guess) were getting more screen time & a more fleshed out Backstory, so changes were needed to be made in order to make it more dramatic & probably closer to what happened in her comic story. (Spider-Gwen does have a comic, but I haven't read it so don't take my word for it completely)
@@hellish_eirian yeah I think the only reason it’s different is like you said because it didn’t get much focus and was kinda glossed over so they had to make different to make it more in-depth
@@multiplemysteries5242 Yup, even if they don't explain it the third one will still be great I'm betting, I got faith in em.
I have a question. If our miles(E-1610) was supposed to be the Prowler, then why did uncle Aaron became the Prowler* instead of Miles??
maybe if the spider didn't bite E-1610 Miles, Aaron would still be the Prowler. Then something makes him face Spiderman and die (or more likely get executed by Kingpin after failing to kill him), which caused Miles to learn about his identity if he hadn't done it up to that point, and he then takes a grudge on Spiderman and becomes the Prowler.
And since now there's no Spiderman on E-42, Aaron would give Miles the mantle of the Prowler after something happens (that may or may not have something to do with Jeff's death). Where, as mentioned before, if there was a Spiderman, Aaron would be dead, instead of being what looks like a henchman.
@D.Ku_03 yeah miles may have just gone through uncle aaron's home and randomly come across the suit. Kinda like harry osborn becoming green goblin - he found norman's secret lair
Reminder that in the first movie, Miles' Spider-Sense was still triggered by Green Goblin, who was thrown towards him BY Peter Parker. Meaning that this fact at 3:05 is completely wrong and a blatant misrepresentation of why Miles' Spider-Sense was so slow to shift to the Peter Parker Spider-Man colors, like Peter's Spidey-Sense, Peter's Sense is so attuned it can react faster than him, but Miles just got his powers pretty early before this scene, so he's still adjusting to it, meaning he has no clue what's going on. The Spidey-Sense we see is also merely a representation of their own senses, Peter's sense is around himself, and the colors are for him, and then when we switch to Miles, the colors are what he was being warned about, Green Goblin, which shift to Spider-Man's colors to show him that Peter is like him, a Spider-person.
1:53 OMG I 100% DIDN'T KNOW THAT WHATTTTTTTTTTTTT
Technically Miguel is the original anomaly for time travelling in the first place he also isn't Spider-Man for those who refuse to call Miles Spider man but are quick to call Miguel Spiderman without hesitation dude can't even stick to walls nor was he bit by a spider
theory: miguel doesn’t need canon events since he lives in future years after his peter parker went thru his events
I’m surprised madam web hasn’t shown up yet to make sense of all of this
In my opinion, every spider man has a canon of losing the sex of close people by villains and it is usually 2 men and 1 woman e.g. Peter B Parker lost his uncle captain stacy and gwen by villains
Andrew Garlfield lost his uncle , gwen and captain stacy
Tom Holland lost his uncle (or not), aunts and Tony Stark (captain), Peter P ( ps4) he losted aunt , uncle and jefferson because villans
And Miles lost through the villain Kingpin - uncle Aaron And Peter Parker (which i think that was his captain)so miles should through Spot now lose one female character And I think it's Rio
Another thing that's not mentioned is when did Miguel become Spiderman? There's another RUclips video talking about Miguel who died wearing green, our Miguel is wearing purple. Those are the colors of the Prowler. If neither Miguels were meant to be Spiderman, who was the original Spidy in his world? Also, when his daughter disappears, there is Peter standing behind him. Which Peter is he? Did Miguel becoming Spiderman break the Canon? If that is the case, maybe Miguel is just pissed that Miles became Spiderman without paying the consequences.
My theory is that Spider-Man 2099 isn’t a real Spider-Man he’s just a guy who injects himself with a liquid that gives him his powers in the end the only non technological thing about him are his teeth and his incredible eye-sight
MIGUEL DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT INCURSIONS.
Across the Spider-Verse is not an MCU film (and no, the few non-reciprocal references are not enough because the film refers to the entire history of Spider-Man, not just the MCU), so we cannot not use the MCU rules for this film.
The opposite is also true. Why in the MCU have we never had Glitch?
7:17 fair enough tbh. But maybe it’s because he also changed his own story. He now knows what might happen and wants to prevent it from happening again. He has experience knows more about the universe than all other spider mans.
Miguel even gets so mad when Miles jokingly says, " Are those claws ? Are you sure you are even Spider-Man? And then he furiously replies Are you?😂
Hey man thanks for the heart and honestly 2099 doesn't make sense to me coz the Canon events don't really apply to him as well as he truly is somewhat of an impostor (because of how different he is) , in fact Miles is more attuned to the traditional Spidey tropes than Miguel is . I just can't buy what he says , I love Miles and hate how badly he was hurt physically and emotionally by Miguel and everyone else(except Hobie).
If you notice the universe destruction effect is different between Mumbattan and 2099's backstory, one is a black hole similar to spots, and the other is the same effect as the super collider from the first movie. This leads me to believe that the destruction of these universes is an external factor and not the whole "Canon event" shtick. That external factor, however, in both cases it has to do with the alchemax super collider. Also, since the Spot is the second external factor for Mumbattan, who's to say that someone didn't mess with 2099's super collider and destroyed that entire universe. Someone who would want all the Avengers 2099 dead. Someone like Kang. Now the Kang part might be far fetched but my point still stands. Now for canon events i say that they actually just signify what's the most probable thing to happen to someone important to spiderman and can actually be prevented with no problems.
The thing about Miles saving Inspector Singh is that it shouldn't really disrupt that canon of that world since a different event could have still happened to him later; him saving a kid from another disaster that has nothing to do with the Spot or Miles. Mumbattan's Spider Man can still experience this "canon event" later. And what's stopping Mumbattan's Spider Man getting close to another "Captain" and that person dies instead of Inspector Singh; theoretically that would still make the canon event happen. This can be further proven with Gwen's dad no long being Captain too; this wouldn't stop Gwen from making a relationship with another police Captain in her world and the "canon event" could still happen. Thinking about it like that Miguel analysis of a canon event being disrupted shouldn't even apply in this case since theoretically it could still happen.
Bro’s just suffering bc he killed a family that wasn’t his
I'm a little iffy on your argument regarding Spot being the canon event at 5:30. From what I'm understanding, the Spider-man canon event only accounts for the death of a certain loved one. If Spot weren't there in the first place, Captain Singh would've died to another incident instead.
I do agree that Miguel is either wrong, lying, or maybe not even the Miguel we know. As for Spider-man 2099's powers, Miguel is more spider than any other Spider-man, being 50% spider in his DNA, and yes, his original abilities did consist of using claws and having fangs. His original costume also did have a cape.
Another reason to suspect Miguel might be lying or wrong is look at No Way Home. That movie (and by extension every other Spider-Man movie) is very much cannon to Spider-Verse as we see and yet that entire movie was one big breaking of canon events. From Peter bringing each of the villains from their universes before the moment of thier deaths, to Strange literally erasing everyone's memories. Even Miguel himself brings this up in the movie. Yet Earth-199999 and presumably Tobey and Andrew's universes are completely fine.
Fun Fact: I watched Bad Guys in the theater and the movie was accidentally forgotten to start and was 5 minutes late to start.
Another thing that i havent heard anyone talk about is that after Miles saves the captain in Mumbattan, the hole that takes the fallen building is one that looks alot more like how the spots holes look (hypothetically more so after the spots transformation), and not how the universe unraveled in Miguel's flashback.
or Miguel's lying for some other reason.
The comics would all be identical if every canon event happens to every spider person
I think people over complicate this, every spiderman has their own story and universe and Gwen is literally the opposite where Peter dies instead of her while she is “spiderman”, they each have their own “canons” but their needs to be some consistency, it’s like their need to be plot points but the story can be different on the way there
I think Inspector Singh would have died no matter what, considering what happened in 'What If...', Doctor Strange's first attempts to break the Canon didn't work as his wife keeped dying after every time he went back and changed the past to try and stop her death. And once he did break the Canon, the same thing happened to his dimension, as it was engulfed by the black stuff.
Also I'm pretty sure Miguel injected himself with the venom from the spider that bit Peter, which in turn makes him spider-man.
Miguel may be wrong, but he's only trying to protect Miles' dimension from collapsing
good point❤️❤️
Across the Spider-Verse is not an MCU film (and no, the few non-reciprocal references are not enough because the film refers to the entire history of Spider-Man, not just the MCU), so we cannot not use it. the MCU rules for this film.
The opposite is also true. Why in the MCU have we never had Glitch?
Canon events and absolute points are not necessarily the same thing.
1) Canon events can be easily broken while absolute points should require an amount of energy at an Eldritch level.
2) The canon events are exclusively related to Spider-Man, but the points absolutely not at all.
I think another clue comes from peter b parkers own mouth. "You're the reason I had her, OK?"... You're telling me that bringing a spider-child into your universe that was never going to happen without Miles' influence based on the trajectory his life seemed to be headed in; wouldn't reverberate and cause a dimensional collapse similar to Miguels'? Too many things don't add up and I can promise it's not due to the writers overlooking inconsistencies. I've got a feeling we've only seen the first half to the greatest superhero plot jotted down on paper.
0:31 nice colorful background, i love it1!11!!111!!!!!!
Thank youuuu!! New video this month! I'm back baby!!!❣️
I have a feeling Miguel is an anomaly himself, and him trying to play god and make the multiverse the way he wants it is going to end very poorly for him. And I mean VERY poorly. I don't think he'll survive the next movie.
To your point about spot being there only because miles was in mumbattan, spot stopped in mumbattan before the 3 spiders arrived there, and I don’t think he has the ability to anticipate where miles is going to go - but I think ur point is still valid because the spot wouldn’t have been made without miles
Let's also remember that the Multiverse and the "Web of Life and Destiny" are similar but very different concepts. They both may be "right/wrong".
our miles wasn’t me why to be the prowler, because he is good at heart and uncle aaron was already the prowler
i like that part where u say the canon wouldnt have even happened without miles because since spot created miles and miles created spot, the whole event where insp. singh is "supposed" to die was done by spot