Timestamps! 0:00 Intro, The Batman (spoilers) 29:40 The Last Temptation of Christ (spoilers) 53:09 The Passion of the Christ (spoilers) 1:15:34 Pizza Time! I mean Question Time! 1:15:55 What films have given you spiritual experiences? 1:17:57 How should retellings of true stories be handled, especially when considering the consent of those being portrayed? 1:24:48 Is Adam still boycotting The Hurt Locker? 1:26:39 Thoughts on Smiling Friends? 1:29:43 What characters do you not mind seeing in various interpretations over time? 1:34:01 What directors would you be scared to meet in real life? 1:35:41 Do any of you have any good associations with religion? 1:44:08 Adum recommends Speed Racer (2008)!! Praise Shrek!
Good episode! I loved Robert Batboy too, gave it 4/5 on Letterboxd. Also I saw Everything Everywhere All at Once at an early screening and it’s amazing! Highly recommend
The whole point of the carpet tucker is that Batman, being a rich and privileged man, had no clue what that was and had to talk to a blue-collar cop to put the whole picture together. The way this film questioned Batman's privilege was really well done and brought more depth to his character.
Adding to this - his Spanish being bad is also a part of that. Riddler doesn't know Batman is Bruce, so he assumed he would be working class and able to figure out the Spanish and the carpeting tool.
I really like Bruce’s whole character arc because he essentially becomes a target because he abandoned his families responsibilities to the city in this quest for vengeance…and the truth is everybody in Gotham has a reason to seek revenge for a past grievance or loss that’s a similar vibe. It’s the kinda city that constantly produces orphans.Being a protector is equally as important and is a fun twist on the idea that his privilege is his super power and how his attitude and approach needed to change. I think it’s a way more complex character arc that’s different than the last two iterations, he realizes he actually does care after all.
Even if that's the point, it could have been handled way better than some random cop who happens to be there, who also happens to have a carpenter in the family and also happens to just blurt that out for no reason
My dad showed me Passion of the Christ when I was 6. He simply fast forward past all the slow parts and strictly focused on the torture scenes. We read the bible lots so I guess he was hoping we were all caught up on the lore. Keep in mind I was also not allowed to watch Harry Potter…
@@luiginastro8831 true, I have nothing wrong with people believing whatever they want. It’s’s when there are weird contradictory rules that slowly unravel the system
My church showed the crucifixion scene during Easter service and I was so so traumatized I was crying hysterically. Looking back, it makes me feel kind of dirty because why would you show that on Easter? Easter’s supposed to be the rising from the dead, but my church made it all about the brutal killing, it was absurd
I remember religious people telling others how much they cried watching the Passion of the Christ. They really got into it. Also isn't Easter soon, good timing on these movies if so.
@@NeverSaySandwich1 I'm not a Christian and never really believed in it, but my mother is as Christian as it gets. This movie reminds me of something she told me about why she didn't go to church for ~2 decades. Every time she'd go to church they'd hammer home how Jesus died and suffered for your sins and so you should be grateful and repentant and all that jazz. Well my mother really internalized those things and was so guilt ridden and basically in tears over those thoughts that she couldn't take it. To an outsider, that's what the whole point of this movie feels like. "Look at what he did for you! Watch his suffering in needless, excruciating detail! You should feel bad and if you don't become a Christian all this suffering was for nothing!" To people not in the club, it just comes across as creepy.
@@SapientGalaxy This is easily addressed. It's called the Good News, so it's essentially not about despair/hopelessness over wrongdoings but more mercy and forgiveness of them. Did your mother ever talk to anyone in the Church or seek answers about her anguish ?
As a religious man what I love about the last tempation of christ is that it fully exemplifies Christ human nature. Due to liturgy and the nature of prayer the post-acension fully divine picture of Jesus most christians discuss forgets or brushes over the incarnation where there is this divine manifestation in human form. The sacrifice and sinlessness of Christ only has meaning because he could have done otherwise. In human form God could have failed due to his human nature. It is the contingent and indeterminate nature of Christ that is best established by the Temptation of Christ.
Perhaps you are religious, but certainly not Christian. Christ himself said: whoever thinks of sin in his mind, has already sinned. If you think Christ could be tempted by the Devil, it means you only view him as a fellow sinner.
@mateistoian726 i think you are giving your interpretation of mathew as factual. I dont know what makes you come to that conclusion. What i do know is that Scripture refers to a certain logic of, in the impure keeping of our heart, having committed a sin. You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell" And, You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Now clearly, this is not just about thoughts, which are not our choice. If someone has a thought then all it is, is an impulse thrown into the brain. Its natural and spontaneous, what matters is how one responds, whether they consent to a bad thought and indulging it in their will rather than purifying themselves through prayer. This constant inner watchfulness is precisely what holiness is. This is why Christ tells us to keep vigil and stand guard over our own hearts for temptation comes at any hour. So i think i can understand what Jesus means here, without thinking that every blithe thought, which one does not control, is a sinful act. They are only sinful insofar as one's will concedes and agrees with them, but when out of love for God in ones heart, the impulse to betray Him is thrown out and scoffed at as a foreign intruder. St. Sophrony used to say that whenever a thought of prise would come he would shout in his heart "Lord Jesus help! The murderers are here for me!" Furthermore, the notion of the incarnation is that God was fully human and fully divine, and so if Jesus was not human in the sense rhat he could be tempted (as scripture clearly states otherwise why include a section of Him being tempted in the desertby Satan) is because His incarnation was fully human. If christ could not be tempted it means he did not suffer the human difficulty that tou and i do and if he doesnt share in our own suffering and difficulty, our human nature, than how can He be the one to save us? When in Johns gospel, the point is made that the Father does not judge but commits all judgement to the Son, because by the Son's perfect human existence we are all judged as a consequence. How could this be true if Christ was not really tempted? This is what it means to believe in the incarnation. It has been what the Christian tradition has believed for centuries. Now if I could make one more point, I wrote this comment a while ago and if I wrote it now i would have been more clear. The last temptation of Christ has terrible christology and is clear heresy. I liked that as a story it did something interesting and i thought it did a good job of emphasizing that Christ was fully human as well in his incarnation and not just some God man omnisciently hovering a in a mans flesh and bones like nestorious seems to have thought. But Kazanstansis' problem is thaf he sees human nature as inherently bad and the Divine as good. This is a gnostic heresy. Which means his portrayal of Christ, (far from being the one who rather cut off his hand that betray His Father, if you know what seen in particular im talking about.) Is portrayed as being sinful b3cause Kazanstasis doesnt think it can be any other way. But the Orthodox doctrine of the incarnation is and always has been that the second hypostasis of the Trinity, the Divine Son, became flesh assuming a fully human nature while retaining His Divine one and enduring the fullness of every temptation and suffering that man yndergoes He was perfect in fidelity and love for the Father all the way through. How can Christs salvific act mean anything if he couldnt be tempted? If it was just a free and easy ride for Him, how could He possibly save me? Christ was not tempted by evil, but by lesser goods. And He always maintained His love that cuts through illusion. He always remained true knowing that the sweetness of temptation was nothing in comparision to the joy of pleasing His Heavenly Father. Anyway, thanks for your comment and I had forgotten I had written this, i would agree thag the movies christology is just plain wrong, but not because it presents Him as a human being who is tempted and attacked by the Envy of Satan, but in the movie it clearly shows Him yielding to them! Yielding to self love! Like I said, Kazantskasis got the hypostastic union, fully human, fully Divine part alright but He believed that humans were inherently bad, sinful, weak and only by becoming Divine and leaving humanity are we free. This is not Christian teaching, it is in following Christ that we become like Him, one with the Father completely, yet still a created being. It is the renewal of our nature, and therefore Jesus' life has to be possible for us. If His perfection came simply from being capable of not encountering any temptation to sin, than He could not be an example for us or th end that we should strive for, for He did not undergo the fullness of human reality that we do. "Be perfect as Your Father in heaven is perfect." We are called to be like Christ not as a passing dream but as a concrete reality that through allowing Him to live within us immolate self love we begin to become like Him. It is the essence of our fallen nature to be tempted and to suffer. And Jesus never yieled to temptation and never let suffering overwhelm His love, and in bearing the worst trial of our fallen humanity, He restored for us what our humanity was created to be in God.
I think Riddler's antics were supposed to piss you off. He's an insufferable, smug creep. I never thought I was supposed to be chilled by it. Even Batman gets all mad with punching the window and being like "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE". I looked at that as like "I'M GONNA BREAK YOUR FACE YOU EVIL LITTLE SHIT" rather than Batman being desperate to get an answer because he was unnerved
This. Dano captured Riddler from the comics perfectly. He's a smug smartass when hiding behind his traps and puzzles but the moment he gets called out on his BS, he's reduced to a whiny, cowardly mess.
Exactly. Unlike Joker, Riddler doesn't really have that "cool" factor. Joker, especially in TDK, is this badass, unpredictable force who is a lot more self aware. Riddler on the other hand is this depraved guy who basically convinced himself that Batman was working with him the entire time and breaks down when shut down. He is a total loser and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't think you're necessarily supposed be FEARED, but rather disturbed, because of how accurate his insanity is. It's terrifying that I met people who are exactly like this, minus the army
While I can say that I certainly enjoyed the Batman. The enjoyment I got from it is no where near the enjoyment I got out of watching someone in my theater, who was clearly on drugs, fall head first into our row from the row above. The noise she made, accompanied by her panicked attempts at apologizing before stumbling out of the theater. 10 outta 10. Would recommend.
Holy shit, I hope she was ok. People temporarily walk off life-threatening injuries all the time while the adrenaline is going. But that's pretty fucking funny too
I thought the theme of the movie was Batman becoming a symbol of hope as well as vengeance. I thought Catwoman was pretty integral as she is the personal example of the effect he can have on the city with Riddler being the negative effect he had with his initial approach.
The Last Temptation was actually based on a book by Kazantzakis. The author was excommunicated by the church for portraying Jesus in such a humanizing way. That text has been controversial since its conception, basically.
@@Critiqu3 As a part of the trinity, christ was both human and divine however the whole idea of the atonement is that god made the perfect sacrifice (himself) to open salvation to all. To focus solely on christ's human nature is to deny his divinity (thus making this perfect sacrifice, imperfect as well as suggest that Christ was more analogous to a prophet rather than truly the son of god), which is why the last temptation was so controversial.
Although it made a big cultural impact and has one of the biggest and devoted fan bases, I honestly don’t think he book was that good, so I’d say the movies better. As for the better hero, it’s Jesus, he’s not a better character (kinda a Mary Sue) but he’s a better hero since he saves the souls of all humans by dying for their sins, Batman saved a city (kinda, sorta, not really).
I also didn't like the spamming of the theme, however there were repetative aspects of The Batman that I did like, like how the same locations were revisited under different circumstances. It made Gotham feel more like a real city.
I can't agree with the criticism about the theme being overused. Especially from Ralph and Adum, considering that for Taxi Driver they said they loved the music. That fucking saxophone in Taxi Driver played so many goddamn times I was almost becoming as unhinged as Travis.
I'm gonna disagree with the boys a little here about The Batman regarding distinguishing itself from the Nolan-verse. To me it felt much more comic booky and a character like Killer Croc, Clayface, or Freeze would feel much more natural here than in the Nolan-verse which is pretty hyper realistic
Yeah, for me, Gotham in The Batman seemed so dark, and decrepit, I was thinking, “Who the hell would live here?” The rain was so heavy, if you left a 2.5 L bucket open to the sky, it’d be full in 20 seconds. It was so exaggerated that it wasn’t tryna be like real life, it was tryna be a run down city in a comic book.
@@CayeDaws yeah I think it's an interesting vision of the joker with the acid burns and stuff but there's just so much joker right now. There's so many other stories that can be told
@@BrandonGiordano again my biggest problem with this joker was that he really felt like an impersonation of Nolan's Joker with all his growls and mannerisms. I liked the look of Reeve's joker and that's about it
The score may be repetitive in some instances, but something I appreciated musically near the end scene was (SPOILERS) Both Batman and Catwoman's theme seemed to combine when they ride off at the end, and once they separate her theme fades out as Batman goes off on his own and you get that sting of his theme before the credits roll, so even if the characters' leit motifs were repetitive, Michael Giacchino did something really interesting in the way that he carried the score to reflect story's conclusion.
I didn't notice because I was too distracted by Batman's magic cg cape that refused to get sucked into the wheels of his motorcycle even though it's designed in such a way that anytime he slows down he should get caught on.
I really don’t feel compelled to hold this film up to The Dark Knight. To be sure, I’ve considered the similarities and differences of the two, but they’re trying to achieve such different experiences that they might as well belong to different franchises/IP’s. While TDK excels in areas where this film does not, the opposite could also be said. It’s kinda apples to oranges but they both have Batman in them so people are acting like this new film is a sequel or something lol
Hopefully The Batman exploring more of the character’s psyche wasn’t just a one-and-done thing and that future sequels would pick up on this thread. Especially since the films are going with his Earth One origin, where Batman might have inherited his mother’s genetic susceptibility to insanity.
I'd also be fine with them doing more than 3 films(if they're this good) so that by the end of Battinson's run he has an entire rogues gallery & becomes the extremely skilled Batman from the Animated series or Arkham games
I completely disagree. I was kind of worried I was gonna be bored, but no, movie flew by. There's only one scene I thought was very unnecessary. SPOILERS: The Jongler mr Societe scene. Pretty cheesy, but aside from that, I thought everything else ranged from good to great. I don't think there's any other scene I would cut from it, everything was pretty important
@@anthonyhenriques7654 yeah it felt so long to me I don't think I'll watch it again. It's a huge negative mark on a film if I start checking my watch almost 40 minutes before the movie actually ends.
my old christian school warned me for years to stay away from "Last Temptation of Christ" and then bussed us all out in the middle of the week to go see "Passion of the Christ" when it came out hahaha, literally the most violent movie I had ever seen at that point in my life
Passion of the Christ definitely scarred me. I was a very small child when it came out and I remember my family wanted to have a movie day (several times because everyone HAD to see it) and I was excited to watch a movie with my family. But as a 6-7 year old I started screaming and crying during the torture things. Instead of taking me out of the room or something my parents were just like "this is what your savoir went through for you. Yeah it's bad but as you watch just remember his sacrifice."
Same here. All I remember from “The Passion of the Christ” is a no-stop beat down, VERY obvious anti-Semitism, and little to know discussions of His teachings and philosophies.
Gotham actually left like a real city for once in Batman. And unlike Dark Knight, which was carried by Heath, this new film actually made more going for it character wise.
Yeah I agree, and I think the guys take on Catwoman and Riddler is kinda overly simplistic…they’re meant to contrast and mirror Batman’s orphan experience as are the vigilante militia meant to mirror and contrast his personal stance on vigilante justice. I mean the desire to purge the city is relatable of course because the people who could actually affect things only use their resources for greed, power grabs and corruption and breed the constant miasma of hopelessness that seems silly to combat in Gotham. Fighting the hopelessness is way harder and more heroic than becoming the biggest thing people fear.
That's the weird thing with my mom. She loves WW2 history so she tolerates swearing and bloody violence only if it's in something based on a true story or otherwise tied to some historical event.
@@etgohome1343 This seems like a common complaint and I guess that's something the movie can improve on. To outsiders and even some Christians, it just seems like torture porn to guilt people into feeling bad for Jesus. I feel like if they show more of the resurrection then it might sit better at least with Christians because the resurrection is just as important as Jesus's suffering. There's some touching moments when the disciples see the resurrected Jesus and I feel like these scenes can show the gospel better than just ending with a short scene of Jesus rising up with his scarred hands.
Not a complaint, but I'm the only one who notices that Ralph has some delays in his audio? It stands out a lot when the three of them are talking and it seems that Ralph has a few seconds delay when listening to Adum or Alex thus you can't hear them very well as he speaks over them instead of letting them finish their sentences.
I find it interesting that the boys keeps saying it's "impossible" to keep from comparing The Batman to The Dark Knight. I think they're super different movies tonally, structurally and thematically.
Exactly, that's the part I seriously don't get. Like what similarities? Dark tone? Is that it? I think if The Batman is close to any Batman media, then it's probably Arkham Games or stuff like that. I mean there 100% IS Nolan influence in there, obviously, but saying that it's indistinguishable is absurd to me. Also they said that Joker and Riddler are very similar characters. How? Cuz they're insane? Joker had a boner for antagonizing himself against Batman, he wanted to bring havoc and even though he would say that it's for the message, we all know it isn't. Riddler on the other hand was a depraved, delusional incel loser who thought that Batman was working with him the entire time. He actually had a goal in mind based on stoping the corruption rather than chaos. They're completely different. Hell I'd say Scarecrow is more similar ro Joker than Riddler
Maybe it's because tertiary characters like Carmine & Falcone are in both, and play a big part, not just Batman & the Riddler or Joker. Reeves' Gotham felt more like it was in Birds of Prey than in the Nolan films if anything, especially the Iceberg Lounge.
@@bezglavigekoofficial7649 I thought they were clear on why they couldn't stop thinking about The Dark Knight. The hostage scene, the interrogation scene, and I'll even add the ending where the villain succeeds in their plan(though in Joker's case it was delayed due to Batman taking the fall). For Riddler and Joker, I don't see that many similarities in the characters themselves, but definitely in the way their stories played out in their movies. There was also the car chase scene, someone close to Bruce getting blown up, and maybe I'm missing something else. Considering they both happen to be Batman movies, I can see why someone can't unsee those similarities when they pile up. It personally didn't distract me as much as it did them when I saw it, but I was definitely thinking about Se7en, and when Riddler gave himself up it didn't help.
Disagree about Catwoman. I liked that even after allying herself with Batman she was still antagonistic at the end of the movie and provided a ticking clock for Batman to go to Falcone. What you’re calling cliché is actually just being faithful to the source material. Truth be told this movie did Falcone better than Batman Begins and one of the reasons for that is they had Catwoman. Edit: The consequence of bombing Alfred was to bring him and Bruce together. The scene where Bruce is worried about him and finally talks to him is obviously the consequence.
@@aperson7303 No one cares about complaining over my comment but you. I’m not “defending” anything. Adam said He felt like Catwoman was unnecessary to the movie and I felt differently so I’m disagreeing. Out of the 3 of us you’re the only one butt-hurt about it.
The reason for bombing Alfred was so that they could deliver exposition to Bruce (and us) in a way that wouldn't seem repetitive (in the Wayne Manor etc.) All of their previous scenes together were pretty straightforward and there wasn't much chemistry between them and hence they needed a scene to show that Bruce cares a little. It didn't feel organic in any way. Bombing him to bring them together proves this point since two fleshed out characters with a deep relationship wouldn't generally need a big incident to bring them together but this movie used it to tell us the truth in a very non-subtle way. Would've worked if we hadn't just gotten another exposition scene earlier where Falcone lies to him about Maroni. Basically, it's just Bruce going around being told things and him taking it at face value. It wasn't organic, at least it didn't feel like that to me.
@@virajdeshpande3701I guess one can feel like that. Sorry it wasn’t good for you. Their “deep relationship” still needed an event of some sort to occur since Bruce was clearly shutting himself from everyone for presumably decades. They went with an explosion. Could’ve been something else but it served it’s purpose. I like how even though the movie show us that he cares for Alfred, the first thing this Bruce does is to accuse him of lying. It’s like he really has to struggle to come over his anger and talk about how he really feels. Felt to me like a part of him was debating to cut Alfred entirely from his life in order to never feel that pain again. And so he started the conversation by confronting him and yet it ended with them reconnecting for what feels like the first time since Bruce’s parents died.
One thing I think they missed a beat in The Batman on is introducing Nashton before his reveal. Given the Riddler is usually a forensic investigator, I think it would've been awesome if he was in the back of the different murder locations, collecting evidence, without being too obvious. Would've added more context to him going after the corrupt police commissioner, too. A little too long, but I loved the film. Was probably my favourite batman film, mostly because I don't like Nolan's presentation of Gotham beyond Begins.
@@AimForMyHead81 Ah I've honestly never seen his face before the film so didn't suspect that to be an issue haha I checked online and it turns out he's a forensic accountant, so basically an accountant who investigates fraud and misrepresentation. I missed the 'accountant' word when Gordon explained his identity
Totally agree about the depiction of Gotham! I always felt that in Begins the city feels like it has way more grit and texture to it (mostly due to a lot of it taking place in essentially a slum) than Dark Knight or Rises. The latter two feel way too clean and sterile, whereas the new movie makes Gotham a whole character on its own.
No idea what adums talking about with the Batman score. There is a main theme that’s repeated but the actual score is pretty varied, even the main Batman theme, that two note section only happens at the end after four or five different sections.
Respectfully, cringe take my dude. I've seen this take dozens of times on the internet. Short explanation: both movies have completely different goals for their batmen. In an interview (ruclips.net/video/GeCOKD5wEec/видео.html&ab_channel=EntertainmentWeekly), Robert Pattinson talks about which comics he looked to specifically to paint batman as mystic folk legend. Christopher Nolan instead went for a more familiar and intimate Batman. One that was equal parts Batman, Bruce Wayne, and the man underneath. Hence the origin story.
No. TDK was great but has alot of problems. The Batman had better performances, fighting choreography, and cinematography. I also liked The Batman’s score better.
I think they’re both technically different movie genre’s in their film execution tone wise. Dark Knight being more an action thriller and The Batman more a broody neo-noir, once the audience expectation ebbs with time I think the discourse will change. My take is both pull off effectively the tone they’re shooting for, even though The Batman is closer to my personal preference for Batman’s characterization I love the absurd mad city vibes of the Nolan universe too.
@@antoniomendes7961 Nolan’s Batman feels like his take while Reeves has his style but is more in line with year one Batman where he talks very little and comes across very self destructive
The Big issue with the Batman is that the script wasn’t Clever for a Movie that needed to be Smart to work. The Vibe and performances were awesome but the writing and dialogue felt formulated.
I feel like there was something about both the presentation of both Batman and Unmasked Riddler where riddler is almost presented as cute and childish while the Batman is almost presented as the Villain or this monster from a horror movie.
For me, this is My Favorite Batman movie. I haven't watched The Dark Knight in a good bit, but everything I remember about it in terms of the characterization, this movie blows out of the water. To me, when I think of Batman, I think of three things that made me love the character the way I do now: Batman The Animated Series, The stories starring the character by Writer/Artist Darwyn Cooke, & The 60's show. This movie captures chunks of each of those interpretations & sorta mashes them up. The psychology of the character as written by Cooke is there, some of the aesthetics of the 60s show is here (just taken to a more serious degree), & the way Batman leaves the story at the end feels like we're getting closer to that Conroy version of the character I love. but that's just my bias.
That's the thing about Batman, you can't objectively narrow it down to "three things"(not saying you are). The character is closing in on 100 years of source material at this point. It depends on what you were brought up on I guess. Personally for me, when I think about Batman, I think about The Dark Knight and the first two Arkham games. I enjoyed The Animated Series when I was younger too but, honestly, as an adult, it's not the greatest thing ever looking back on it. A good chunk of it was kinda dull or just out of place/kinda bad, Bruce Timm had some good ideas about Batman but also some pretty bad ones. Mask of the Phantasm was the best version of that and was helped by not being restricted by being too kid friendly, and then the Arkham games perfected that formula of Batman but to the point where a lot of elements were completely different so I don't even know if I consider it to be the same version. Definitely give The Dark Knight another watch whenever you can. I think it's not only a phenomenal film but some of the best characterization of Batman and its characters ever adapted. Batman and the Joker and their dynamic, Gordon, Dent, Alfred, all of it was taken from the comics and even enriched upon. I absolutely love that movie.
The Last Temptation of Christ” is my favorite movie about Jesus because it best illustrates how He was both man AND God. What would be more tempting than to live a normal life? Getting married to Mary Magdalene, having children, and growing old! Jesus was already tempted with “all the kingdoms of the world and their glory”, but that wasn’t enough for Jesus to renounce God (Gospel of Mark, chapter 4, verses 8 to 10). As for the criticisms, I’ll address them to the best of my knowledge: 1. I understand that the Judeans speaking in American accents (Judas is from Brooklyn?!?) is arresting. However, it it was a deliberate choice by Martin Scorsese to differentiate the power imbalance between them and the Romans (Londoner David Bowie as Pontius Pilate). To many Americans, a British accent denotes intelligent and a higher status (the American colonies used to be part of the British Empire). 2. Casting a pale, lighter haired Jesus was also a deliberate choice. Having the “classical” way of portraying Jesus as a “You think you know this Jesus? Think again!” (From Scorsese’s director’s commentary on the Criterion Collection. 3. I will agree about portraying Mary Magdalene as a prostitute, but later scholarship disputes this assumption. I think it works for the movie as a juxtaposition of the sexual Mary and the celibate Jesus. Also, I really resented Mel Gibson talked shit about “The Last Temptation of Christ”. Not only did he reuse the sets for the former movie for “The Passion of the Christ”, but even the idea of having the Judeans speak Aramaic and the Romans speak Latin! The only thing that I can say is that Gibson was able to successfully make the movie a hit through pandering to evangelical Christians because it didn’t challenge the “100% divine Jesus that is comforting and not challenging. Also, Gibson being confirmed as an anti-Semite really colors any subsequent viewings. “The Batman” was good, but I was shocked that it didn’t get an Oscar nomination for Best Makeup and Hairstyling! Colin Farrell looked so different.
I might be the only one that thought Riddler was a little bit disappointing because he wasn't in it enough. what The Dark Knight definitely has over this film is that driving antagonistic force that Heath Ledgers Joker brings.
Ralph, if you ever read this, something to meditate on - "For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." (Luke 9:26)
I actually had the opportunity to hear Jim Caviezel speak a few weeks ago. He is an extremely charismatic speaker. He talked about his experience getting struck by lightning twice during the production lol
I don't think I've ever watched the whole movie of Passion of Christ but I do remember seeing some of the torture scenes and stuff (I was like 9-10? But growing up Catholic, I knew some context + it was my "edgy, puberty phase" where my friends and I would watch scary or gory stuff, like "who's the toughest among us" thing). But the scene that stood out to me was the one where Jesus' mother Mary was in the crowd and she remembers young Jesus tripping over while watching present Jesus fainting and falling to the ground. That was really moving for me, kind of a reminder that Jesus has his human side and was once a little boy. So yeah, it's mostly the flashback scenes I remember lmao.
I want to see The Passion of the Jesus with a Shrek. Lord Farquaad would be Pontius Pilate. donkey would either be John the Baptist or Judas. Not sure who would play Mary.. The wolf I guess?
Gotta admit, I didnt see the crucifying in the passion of the christ coming. Very bold choice for the writer. You guys really should have had a spoiler section for these movies. :)
Catwoman is essential for Batman’s arc in this movie. She introduced the idea that Bruce Wayne/Batman is a privileged person even as an orphan. That motive is again explored by the interaction with the policeman and finally when the Riddler explains his plan. Also she is the vehicle for showing to the audience that Batman has principles whereas she doesn’t. At the end Batman realizes that fear isn’t the answer for solving Gotham’s problems is more about hope. Also it hints that probably we will see a more philanthropic Bruce in the next movie.
My theory on where they'll go with this in a sequel is that Bruce will over correct, hang up the cowl and try to solve Gotham's issue through philanthropy, only to realise some villains (cough, Joker, cough) need the Batman to defeat, and a balance must be found. Kind of like the reverse of this movie.
also didnt batman's combined interest and her gf's demise result in the whole down the rabbit hole gang reveal ? like yeah it was melodramatic at parts (the whole film was) but i dont think "she was inessential" was the best take
With Christians, you have to remember that they dogmatically believe that Jesus died for their sins. If they think literally anything else happened they feel they run the risk of burning in hell for eternity. On the flip side, they believe that heaven is basically just being with God/Jesus for all eternity and that is the greatest pleasure a human could ever feel. Any pleasure you get from appreciating art pales in comparison to heaven. The Passion reinforces that belief system while The Last Temptation critically examines it. But even that critical examination is heresy leading to hell. I agree its a warped world view, but you have to understand it to understand the reason why The Passion was successful while Last Temptation was so poorly received.
Are they bringing up that the other Batman films have other themes in their scores, as if The Batman doesn’t? Besides the Batman theme, we have the Bruce Wayne/Gotham theme, the Catwoman theme and the Riddler theme, all of which have their own distinct, memorable melody and are all brought up pretty consistently and fittingly throughout the film. It’s not just the same two notes over and over again.
I really didn't find the Batman all that confusing tbh. I thought if anything they linked all of the stories together too well. Pretty much everyone was involved in everything. In terms of it feeling too Nolan-y, I think it's more that they both take inspiration from a handful of the same comics. I loved it, I think it's probably my favourite CBM but I'll need to give it time.
@@coletrainhetrick It was nothing like the Nolan films. It was far grimmer, darker and grungier in its aesthetic. If I can compare it to another comic book movie, it would honestly be the crow.
I dont know. Ive been a devout comic reader for 20 years now and as much as i hate putting prerequisites like that in front of my explanations for why i enjoyed something i do think that created a different experience for me. Ive been saying this since i saw it, everyones question is “is it better than TDK? The answer is no. Its not a better film than TDK, HOWEVER, as a comic reader i think its a much better BATMAN FILM. Its more comic booky to me, its more Batman centered, its actually ABOUT Bruce and Batman as opposed to almost every other Batman film being more about the villains. I just liked it, it really felt like a Batman comic from the late 80s early 90s but come to life on screen. Loved it
If you're not super religious, Passion of the Christ is just worthless. Instead of spreading a universally applicable message of love and helping others, it's just focused on "LOOK HOW MUCH THIS MAN SUFFERS! HE IS SUFFERING FOR YOU! AREN'T YOU GRACIOUS?!" The fact that this became a legit phenomenon back when it came out where churches and parents were dragging people to watch an R-rated torture porn movie because "it's important" disgusts me.
I think there's some merit in the film since it claims to be the most accurate depiction of Jesus's death but yeah showing it to kids is super irresponsible and Christians need to explain the merits of the film or else it just looks like torture porn. When she was a kid, my friend said that she was invited to a sleepover but the parents of the house used it as a ruse to make her watch the Passion. After watching it, they asked, "are you a Christian now" and she agreed out of fear.
@@Watchful049 It's not irresponsible but forcing it on someone is out of line. Most kids being taken to it were leaving a home where they are subjected to violence to downgrade to only watching someone else in fiction being hit for a change, which is not damaging and might get some empathy for Jesus or victims of violence in general.
~ 23:00 my partner had a similar criticism of Batmans "detective work" but I thought it fit really well thematically in the film and it was actually one if my favorite aspects (fwiw I was not a huge fan of this movie, I thought it was good not great, don't have an interest in watching it again). This Batman and more importantly this Bruce Wayne is being shown as more of this tormented and fucked up person. He is delusional. He thinks it's his responsibility to go out at night in a weird costume and scare people. He thinks he's a hero when he's just a rich asshole playing dress up. He thinks he's a detective but he's just well connected and in the right places at the right times. It's always been really the working class people around him supporting him that let him succeed by any measure. I mean where would he be without Alfred? His actual servant? I am interested to see how this iteration of batman develops in later films.
Batman is inherently and inescapably a super hero power fantasy. Taking Batman seriously and exploring how Batman would be in real life is doomed to be self annulling. The character of Batman simply couldn't exist in the real world
Growing up Me and my friends at church were not allowed to watch passion until we were older And I’m very glad the leaders at my church and parents had the wisdom to recognize it’s definitely not for kids or even teenagers
I think the one thing I'll disagree with as far as how you boys felt about Batman, is that the one big thing The Batman really has over the Nolan films, despite any necessary criticisms you can apply, is Batman, or at least Rob's portrail of him. Say what you want about his Bruce Wayne, even though I enjoy it, Rob may be the best Batman we've had in live action. I did get a kick out of the Riddler scene in the jail too though, but I'm so desensitized by the Adam West series that I equally think it's as intentionally funny as it would be if unintentional. It could go either way and I'd still love it. Most fun Batman film is easily the Adam West movie. If the Sards ever spoke about that movie I'd probably die and the cum I am a huuuuge fan of Bruce Kobain too, I love that parallel between the two of them, how the weight of the world fell on their shoulders.
couldnt agree more with adam about the score they could have cut out like half of the music in the movie and it would have made it so much better and the music wasn't even that good or inspired to begin with i would love to see a shorter directors cut with less music or something
I watched the movie twice now and I believe the score was a major contributing factor to the atmosphere. Besides, I really take issue with YMS saying the score just consists of the same two notes being played and them saying that the other Batman films have other themes, as if The Batman doesn’t. Bruce Wayne’s theme has got to be one of the best Batman themes ever written. It conveys so much within one piece and is used extremely effectively IMO.
TDK is undisputedly the better movie in my opinion, but as a Batman movie this is much better. I found Pattison’s Batman to be much more compelling, especially in comparison to Bale’s Batman, which ironically was played very blandly at best or very hilarious at worst. In fact I find it very surprising that there’s people saying the opposite and that Pattinson’s Batman was somehow bland
Adam's anecdote about prayer in the last question seems, with all due respect, egocentric. The point of prayer is not comfort or God responding to your feelings (see Moralistic Therapeutic Deism). Religion is not about using it as a tool to get what you want but to conform your desires/feelings to the truth claims of a religion.
Great podcast, guys 🤗. I'm sure you are already aware, but Stephen Fry - outside of being a brilliant man - is an openly gay comedian, author, documentarian and historian, that has delved into a lot of topics raised here, with very similar standing to Adum's experiences. He has an amazing docuseries called ; Out There. Would love to hear your thoughts on it one day. Keep up the awesome show, love what you guys do.👏👏
I never tought about the double standards that religious groups have with violence in the passion of the crhist and any other movie. Religious groups, they will demand your respect but force their views in any aspect of live
@@NeverSaySandwich1 Many movies have points to their violence, but MPAA and conservative America will have a problem with that. But this movie gets a pass, even when is part of the ones that use violence just for shock value, like you said, just to highlight that a violent death was violent. No deeper meaning there.
@@vjara94 I'd personally argue that the deeper meaning implied by the Passion was to bring sympathy. It isn't violence for the purpose of violence, it's violence to help the audience understand what the burden of human sin meant for Jesus. It's truly a shame that many Christians don't see the value of violence in movies when that same purpose in depicting violence (ie the cost of sin) still exists in other stories
@@daniellaguilles8955 but that's not deeper meaning, it's the only meaning, but no one can denied is highly effective in making a character sympathetic, and in that note, the last temptation does the exact opposite, where misery is not an exchange for character development to gain the audience sympathy. I don't even dislike this movie that much, just the show that surrounded it.
@@vjara94 I guess what I'm trying to say is that Christians should try to see the same value in depicting violence in movies because many of them don't. Whether or not we call this value 'deeper meaning' it's important for them to see that it can exist through violence outside of movies depicting Christ.
It's crazy, but I just so happened to have been reading up on Terrence Malick as I was listening to this, and he just so happens to be making his own film about Jesus.
I felt y’all’s criticisms on the Batman theme used over and over in the movie. I’m actually going to school for film score composition and when I watched the movie I LOVED the score but as Adam said when it’s the same theme with the same two notes again and again it really does get irritating. They could’ve changed the harmonization of the melody or add a different chord progression for some variations of the Batman theme but 🤷♂️
i was a little disappointed with that joker tease at the end, I may be in the minority but I wanna see the Joker character rest for a while. Batman has an incredible rouges gallery and I'm just a little tired of seeing the clown again.
I was looking for a time stamp to the religious discussion, but Adam wrote a detailed transcript minute by minute what goes on and what is said. Is he alright? Should someone check on him?
I agree 100% with Adam's views on religion. I was raised strictly religious. When i was 13 or 14 i would just sit in our backyard and think about how horrific and bizarre it was that my thoughts, a thing that i could not control, were being constantly monitored for sin. Their interpretation of God must be so fickle and intolerant. My parents were very serious about religion, and when i started drawing weird things and listening to heavier and heavier music they were worried and tried to stop it. I don't blame them. They are wonderful people who were convinced that they were doing the right thing, controlled by fear. Fear and guilt is all that religion has bestowed on my life. Whenever i go to church i feel like my spirit is being crushed. My brain simply will not let me believe in something that i cannot feel or touch, but i can just feel the ideology trying to seep in and re-write my brain. I can feel it saying "Your brain should be the canal of God, your words should be the words of God, your identity should be absorbed by God, the fact that you are not happy right now means that you are not a part of God and are, therefore, a vessel fit only for destruction". Horrifying shit.
Two friends of mine hold it in really high regard and I'm actually eager to see it, they're really into the Coens and all kinds of weird good shit like In Bruges so I don't *doubt* them per se... Just not exactly sure what to expect
The more I think about it, the more Adam’s take on the score makes absolutely no sense. Like really? The WHOLE score is the same two notes? Lmao. I’ve listened to the entire soundtrack after watching the movie, and that is very much not an accurate description of what it sounds like.
I really enjoyed watching The Batman. It was my first movie at a theater in years and was definitely fun in IMAX. It was the best movie theater experience I have had in a decade or two. I only had a few small nitpicks with it. Spoilers below: (1) Spraypainting the conspiracy clues on the floor felt too cliche. (2) The editing of the attack at Wayne Manor that injured Alfred felt a little sloppy and confusing. You're left wondering why Alfred isn't answering the phone, but really Batman is calling an hour after the attack. And when Dory (the maid answers) she doesn't answer like a normal person would. It's all engineered for suspense. (3) Seems like they gloss over that innocent civillians must have died in the car chase. (4) Some of the riddle solutions were confusing on a first watch. This very well could be a problem with me missing it. I was confused on how Batman deduced that the cipher key had a message and what they were eliminating to make it visible, as well as the explanation of El Rata and what it meant (even the characters were confused about that).
So the drive thing was because they already had the letters and as Alfred was deciphering it the letters started to form. “You are El rataa alada” is actually a smart word play. For someone who hasn’t learned basic Spanish, you would read that as “you are the rat with wings” or something like that. BUT you actually say it like “la rataa alada.” Riddler has been very calculated with his riddles, so it couldn’t have been a mistake. Say the words together and you get “You are el rataa alada”, “url rataaalada”
I think the problem with riddler, or at least one of them, isn’t that he’s not in it enough- it’s that his presence isn’t felt at all when he’s not on screen. Zodiac works because the zodiac’s presence is felt in every scene through the performances and just the general air of tension across the whole city, which we get glimpses of through the leads’ families. This movie doesn’t have that AT ALL. And, when riddler is on screen, we see way too much of him. There’s no mystery, there’s nothing to be scared of. It’s all right there in the open, he- the RIDDLER- just says exactly what he means all of the time in well-exposed phone footage
The biggest issue with The Batman is that the villain didn't have "Damaged" tattooed on his forehead.
Yeah how else are we supposed to know whether he's a damaged individual or not!?
We live in a society where it's necessary
@@fromvault801 oh, bottom text!
Cause I'm all messed up you know, mom's totally gonna freak
Timestamps!
0:00 Intro, The Batman (spoilers)
29:40 The Last Temptation of Christ (spoilers)
53:09 The Passion of the Christ (spoilers)
1:15:34 Pizza Time! I mean Question Time!
1:15:55 What films have given you spiritual experiences?
1:17:57 How should retellings of true stories be handled, especially when considering the consent of those being portrayed?
1:24:48 Is Adam still boycotting The Hurt Locker?
1:26:39 Thoughts on Smiling Friends?
1:29:43 What characters do you not mind seeing in various interpretations over time?
1:34:01 What directors would you be scared to meet in real life?
1:35:41 Do any of you have any good associations with religion?
1:44:08 Adum recommends Speed Racer (2008)!! Praise Shrek!
Good episode! I loved Robert Batboy too, gave it 4/5 on Letterboxd. Also I saw Everything Everywhere All at Once at an early screening and it’s amazing! Highly recommend
@@michaelscott8901 thanks for the time stamps office guy
Hell yeah! SPEED RACER is a masterpiece!
@@williamw2529 no problem
Freaking hero
The whole point of the carpet tucker is that Batman, being a rich and privileged man, had no clue what that was and had to talk to a blue-collar cop to put the whole picture together. The way this film questioned Batman's privilege was really well done and brought more depth to his character.
Adding to this - his Spanish being bad is also a part of that. Riddler doesn't know Batman is Bruce, so he assumed he would be working class and able to figure out the Spanish and the carpeting tool.
I personally like how most of the riddles were solved through cooperation.
I really like Bruce’s whole character arc because he essentially becomes a target because he abandoned his families responsibilities to the city in this quest for vengeance…and the truth is everybody in Gotham has a reason to seek revenge for a past grievance or loss that’s a similar vibe. It’s the kinda city that constantly produces orphans.Being a protector is equally as important and is a fun twist on the idea that his privilege is his super power and how his attitude and approach needed to change. I think it’s a way more complex character arc that’s different than the last two iterations, he realizes he actually does care after all.
I guess. 🤷♂️
Even if that's the point, it could have been handled way better than some random cop who happens to be there, who also happens to have a carpenter in the family and also happens to just blurt that out for no reason
Ezekiel 23:20
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."
My favorite part of Pulp Fiction
facts
My dad showed me Passion of the Christ when I was 6. He simply fast forward past all the slow parts and strictly focused on the torture scenes. We read the bible lots so I guess he was hoping we were all caught up on the lore. Keep in mind I was also not allowed to watch Harry Potter…
Religious people are weird.
No offense.
@@luiginastro8831 true, I have nothing wrong with people believing whatever they want. It’s’s when there are weird contradictory rules that slowly unravel the system
it's crazy to me how a religion based on a made up story has a problem with other made up stories
Same dude
My church showed the crucifixion scene during Easter service and I was so so traumatized I was crying hysterically. Looking back, it makes me feel kind of dirty because why would you show that on Easter? Easter’s supposed to be the rising from the dead, but my church made it all about the brutal killing, it was absurd
robert pattinson said he was gonna do porn if the movie flopped. remember what they took from you.
he said he'd do porn either way so we win regardless
If he worked with 4 Chambers that would be amazing
I remember religious people telling others how much they cried watching the Passion of the Christ. They really got into it. Also isn't Easter soon, good timing on these movies if so.
Yes, Zombie Jesus day is soon.
I was one of those way-too-young kids whose parents insisted I see this and I was peer pressured into saying I cried
its a good movie eternally seethed at by reddit
@@NeverSaySandwich1 I'm not a Christian and never really believed in it, but my mother is as Christian as it gets. This movie reminds me of something she told me about why she didn't go to church for ~2 decades. Every time she'd go to church they'd hammer home how Jesus died and suffered for your sins and so you should be grateful and repentant and all that jazz. Well my mother really internalized those things and was so guilt ridden and basically in tears over those thoughts that she couldn't take it. To an outsider, that's what the whole point of this movie feels like. "Look at what he did for you! Watch his suffering in needless, excruciating detail! You should feel bad and if you don't become a Christian all this suffering was for nothing!" To people not in the club, it just comes across as creepy.
@@SapientGalaxy This is easily addressed. It's called the Good News, so it's essentially not about despair/hopelessness over wrongdoings but more mercy and forgiveness of them.
Did your mother ever talk to anyone in the Church or seek answers about her anguish ?
As a religious man what I love about the last tempation of christ is that it fully exemplifies Christ human nature. Due to liturgy and the nature of prayer the post-acension fully divine picture of Jesus most christians discuss forgets or brushes over the incarnation where there is this divine manifestation in human form. The sacrifice and sinlessness of Christ only has meaning because he could have done otherwise. In human form God could have failed due to his human nature. It is the contingent and indeterminate nature of Christ that is best established by the Temptation of Christ.
Great comment!
I agree! As a religious man myself I adored the film.
Perhaps you are religious, but certainly not Christian. Christ himself said: whoever thinks of sin in his mind, has already sinned. If you think Christ could be tempted by the Devil, it means you only view him as a fellow sinner.
@mateistoian726 i think you are giving your interpretation of mathew as factual. I dont know what makes you come to that conclusion. What i do know is that Scripture refers to a certain logic of, in the impure keeping of our heart, having committed a sin.
You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell"
And,
You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Now clearly, this is not just about thoughts, which are not our choice. If someone has a thought then all it is, is an impulse thrown into the brain. Its natural and spontaneous, what matters is how one responds, whether they consent to a bad thought and indulging it in their will rather than purifying themselves through prayer. This constant inner watchfulness is precisely what holiness is. This is why Christ tells us to keep vigil and stand guard over our own hearts for temptation comes at any hour. So i think i can understand what Jesus means here, without thinking that every blithe thought, which one does not control, is a sinful act. They are only sinful insofar as one's will concedes and agrees with them, but when out of love for God in ones heart, the impulse to betray Him is thrown out and scoffed at as a foreign intruder. St. Sophrony used to say that whenever a thought of prise would come he would shout in his heart "Lord Jesus help! The murderers are here for me!" Furthermore, the notion of the incarnation is that God was fully human and fully divine, and so if Jesus was not human in the sense rhat he could be tempted (as scripture clearly states otherwise why include a section of Him being tempted in the desertby Satan) is because His incarnation was fully human. If christ could not be tempted it means he did not suffer the human difficulty that tou and i do and if he doesnt share in our own suffering and difficulty, our human nature, than how can He be the one to save us? When in Johns gospel, the point is made that the Father does not judge but commits all judgement to the Son, because by the Son's perfect human existence we are all judged as a consequence. How could this be true if Christ was not really tempted? This is what it means to believe in the incarnation. It has been what the Christian tradition has believed for centuries.
Now if I could make one more point, I wrote this comment a while ago and if I wrote it now i would have been more clear. The last temptation of Christ has terrible christology and is clear heresy. I liked that as a story it did something interesting and i thought it did a good job of emphasizing that Christ was fully human as well in his incarnation and not just some God man omnisciently hovering a in a mans flesh and bones like nestorious seems to have thought. But Kazanstansis' problem is thaf he sees human nature as inherently bad and the Divine as good. This is a gnostic heresy. Which means his portrayal of Christ, (far from being the one who rather cut off his hand that betray His Father, if you know what seen in particular im talking about.) Is portrayed as being sinful b3cause Kazanstasis doesnt think it can be any other way. But the Orthodox doctrine of the incarnation is and always has been that the second hypostasis of the Trinity, the Divine Son, became flesh assuming a fully human nature while retaining His Divine one and enduring the fullness of every temptation and suffering that man yndergoes He was perfect in fidelity and love for the Father all the way through. How can Christs salvific act mean anything if he couldnt be tempted? If it was just a free and easy ride for Him, how could He possibly save me? Christ was not tempted by evil, but by lesser goods. And He always maintained His love that cuts through illusion. He always remained true knowing that the sweetness of temptation was nothing in comparision to the joy of pleasing His Heavenly Father.
Anyway, thanks for your comment and I had forgotten I had written this, i would agree thag the movies christology is just plain wrong, but not because it presents Him as a human being who is tempted and attacked by the Envy of Satan, but in the movie it clearly shows Him yielding to them! Yielding to self love! Like I said, Kazantskasis got the hypostastic union, fully human, fully Divine part alright but He believed that humans were inherently bad, sinful, weak and only by becoming Divine and leaving humanity are we free. This is not Christian teaching, it is in following Christ that we become like Him, one with the Father completely, yet still a created being. It is the renewal of our nature, and therefore Jesus' life has to be possible for us. If His perfection came simply from being capable of not encountering any temptation to sin, than He could not be an example for us or th end that we should strive for, for He did not undergo the fullness of human reality that we do. "Be perfect as Your Father in heaven is perfect." We are called to be like Christ not as a passing dream but as a concrete reality that through allowing Him to live within us immolate self love we begin to become like Him. It is the essence of our fallen nature to be tempted and to suffer. And Jesus never yieled to temptation and never let suffering overwhelm His love, and in bearing the worst trial of our fallen humanity, He restored for us what our humanity was created to be in God.
Jesus Christ and Batman. A combo I'd never thought Sardonicast would crossover with.
The Passion of the Batman
Impractical jokers
Wash Away your Sins,
I guess
The Last Temptation of Bruce Wayne
Both are my heroes👍😁
I think Riddler's antics were supposed to piss you off. He's an insufferable, smug creep. I never thought I was supposed to be chilled by it. Even Batman gets all mad with punching the window and being like "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE". I looked at that as like "I'M GONNA BREAK YOUR FACE YOU EVIL LITTLE SHIT" rather than Batman being desperate to get an answer because he was unnerved
This. Dano captured Riddler from the comics perfectly. He's a smug smartass when hiding behind his traps and puzzles but the moment he gets called out on his BS, he's reduced to a whiny, cowardly mess.
I agree. Riddler is a man child in the comics so that's a +1.
Exactly. Unlike Joker, Riddler doesn't really have that "cool" factor. Joker, especially in TDK, is this badass, unpredictable force who is a lot more self aware.
Riddler on the other hand is this depraved guy who basically convinced himself that Batman was working with him the entire time and breaks down when shut down. He is a total loser and I wouldn't want it any other way.
I don't think you're necessarily supposed be FEARED, but rather disturbed, because of how accurate his insanity is. It's terrifying that I met people who are exactly like this, minus the army
Riddler is amazing his legacy will come true in real life his way is the only way forward I support the Riddler I think we need to rise up and attack
@@bezglavigekoofficial7649 *plus the army
While I can say that I certainly enjoyed the Batman. The enjoyment I got from it is no where near the enjoyment I got out of watching someone in my theater, who was clearly on drugs, fall head first into our row from the row above. The noise she made, accompanied by her panicked attempts at apologizing before stumbling out of the theater. 10 outta 10. Would recommend.
Holy shit, I hope she was ok. People temporarily walk off life-threatening injuries all the time while the adrenaline is going.
But that's pretty fucking funny too
Aww, I hope she's alright.
I hope she wasn’t too badly hurt, and that she got help for the whole drug problem.
Also did you get her number?
I thought the theme of the movie was Batman becoming a symbol of hope as well as vengeance. I thought Catwoman was pretty integral as she is the personal example of the effect he can have on the city with Riddler being the negative effect he had with his initial approach.
The Last Temptation was actually based on a book by Kazantzakis. The author was excommunicated by the church for portraying Jesus in such a humanizing way. That text has been controversial since its conception, basically.
Which drives me nuts. Isn't the whole damn point of Jesus that he was human? Humanizing him gives his suffering and ultimate death more weight
It had nothing to do with the humanization, but the idea that Christ could even be tempted by Satan is blasphemy
@@Critiqu3 As a part of the trinity, christ was both human and divine however the whole idea of the atonement is that god made the perfect sacrifice (himself) to open salvation to all. To focus solely on christ's human nature is to deny his divinity (thus making this perfect sacrifice, imperfect as well as suggest that Christ was more analogous to a prophet rather than truly the son of god), which is why the last temptation was so controversial.
He was not excommunicated, but he was threatened with it, but the Greek court overruled it.
@@Kow8675309
Jesus was tempted by Satan:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temptation_of_Christ
Who's the better hero? Batman or Jesus?
Is the Passion of the Christ a case of "the book was better"?
Man out here asking the real questions
Jesus wasn't played by Robert Pattinson sooooo...
Both of them are not very good at treating mentally ill people 😬
the movie is definitely better than the book, they left out a lot of the bigotry and misogyny lmao
Although it made a big cultural impact and has one of the biggest and devoted fan bases, I honestly don’t think he book was that good, so I’d say the movies better.
As for the better hero, it’s Jesus, he’s not a better character (kinda a Mary Sue) but he’s a better hero since he saves the souls of all humans by dying for their sins, Batman saved a city (kinda, sorta, not really).
I also didn't like the spamming of the theme, however there were repetative aspects of The Batman that I did like, like how the same locations were revisited under different circumstances. It made Gotham feel more like a real city.
I would agree if it were a lame theme. This theme gets close to the Sam raimi spiderman and superman theme easily
I can't agree with the criticism about the theme being overused. Especially from Ralph and Adum, considering that for Taxi Driver they said they loved the music. That fucking saxophone in Taxi Driver played so many goddamn times I was almost becoming as unhinged as Travis.
@@zackerywoytkiw4172 Different strokes for different folks I guess.
@@NeverSaySandwich1 Yeah that was awesome. The club almost felt like a character in its own right.
@@zackerywoytkiw4172 yeah the reuse of that theme in taxi driver was so annoying
I'm gonna disagree with the boys a little here about The Batman regarding distinguishing itself from the Nolan-verse. To me it felt much more comic booky and a character like Killer Croc, Clayface, or Freeze would feel much more natural here than in the Nolan-verse which is pretty hyper realistic
Yeah, for me, Gotham in The Batman seemed so dark, and decrepit, I was thinking, “Who the hell would live here?” The rain was so heavy, if you left a 2.5 L bucket open to the sky, it’d be full in 20 seconds. It was so exaggerated that it wasn’t tryna be like real life, it was tryna be a run down city in a comic book.
The only thing I really feel is too similar to the Nolan Trilogy was how the Joker acted and spoke and I'm glad his interview was cut
@@CayeDaws yeah I think it's an interesting vision of the joker with the acid burns and stuff but there's just so much joker right now. There's so many other stories that can be told
@@BrandonGiordano again my biggest problem with this joker was that he really felt like an impersonation of Nolan's Joker with all his growls and mannerisms. I liked the look of Reeve's joker and that's about it
The score may be repetitive in some instances, but something I appreciated musically near the end scene was (SPOILERS)
Both Batman and Catwoman's theme seemed to combine when they ride off at the end, and once they separate her theme fades out as Batman goes off on his own and you get that sting of his theme before the credits roll, so even if the characters' leit motifs were repetitive, Michael Giacchino did something really interesting in the way that he carried the score to reflect story's conclusion.
I didn't notice because I was too distracted by Batman's magic cg cape that refused to get sucked into the wheels of his motorcycle even though it's designed in such a way that anytime he slows down he should get caught on.
I really don’t feel compelled to hold this film up to The Dark Knight. To be sure, I’ve considered the similarities and differences of the two, but they’re trying to achieve such different experiences that they might as well belong to different franchises/IP’s. While TDK excels in areas where this film does not, the opposite could also be said. It’s kinda apples to oranges but they both have Batman in them so people are acting like this new film is a sequel or something lol
53:44 When Alex says "it's like Southland Tales" you know things aren't gonna go well (and I mean that in a good way)
Hopefully The Batman exploring more of the character’s psyche wasn’t just a one-and-done thing and that future sequels would pick up on this thread. Especially since the films are going with his Earth One origin, where Batman might have inherited his mother’s genetic susceptibility to insanity.
I'm sorry, what was that last bit?
@@josesosa3337 Batman’s mother is an Arkham and the Arkhams have a familial history of insanity that he most likely inherited, as well
I'd also be fine with them doing more than 3 films(if they're this good) so that by the end of Battinson's run he has an entire rogues gallery & becomes the extremely skilled Batman from the Animated series or Arkham games
I like this take, da roach dawg jr
My biggest problem with the batman was the length but on a second viewing it felt like it went by faster.
I personally didn’t feel the pacing at all
I completely disagree. I was kind of worried I was gonna be bored, but no, movie flew by. There's only one scene I thought was very unnecessary. SPOILERS:
The Jongler mr Societe scene. Pretty cheesy, but aside from that, I thought everything else ranged from good to great. I don't think there's any other scene I would cut from it, everything was pretty important
The guy next to me literally fell asleep halfway through the movie for, like, 2 minutes.
interesting, I haven't seen the movie myself but normally when a movie feels long on first viewing it feels even longer the second time around
@@anthonyhenriques7654 yeah it felt so long to me I don't think I'll watch it again. It's a huge negative mark on a film if I start checking my watch almost 40 minutes before the movie actually ends.
my old christian school warned me for years to stay away from "Last Temptation of Christ" and then bussed us all out in the middle of the week to go see "Passion of the Christ" when it came out hahaha, literally the most violent movie I had ever seen at that point in my life
There’s a gorgeous Criterion blu ray that contains much of Stan Brakhage’s work. It’s very interesting.
I love how the boys are like _"are we gonna talk spoilers?"_ in every episode even though the answer is always yes lol
The comparison of The Passion of the Christ to Southland Tales makes me wish Dwayne Johnson played Jesus Christ
Passion of the Christ definitely scarred me. I was a very small child when it came out and I remember my family wanted to have a movie day (several times because everyone HAD to see it) and I was excited to watch a movie with my family. But as a 6-7 year old I started screaming and crying during the torture things. Instead of taking me out of the room or something my parents were just like "this is what your savoir went through for you. Yeah it's bad but as you watch just remember his sacrifice."
Wow, your parents were terrible. I’m sorry you had to experience that.
Last Temptation is one my favorite films and i also think its the best film depicting Christ. It's deeply moving for me.
Same here. All I remember from “The Passion of the Christ” is a no-stop beat down, VERY obvious anti-Semitism, and little to know discussions of His teachings and philosophies.
Gotham actually left like a real city for once in Batman. And unlike Dark Knight, which was carried by Heath, this new film actually made more going for it character wise.
Yeah I agree, and I think the guys take on Catwoman and Riddler is kinda overly simplistic…they’re meant to contrast and mirror Batman’s orphan experience as are the vigilante militia meant to mirror and contrast his personal stance on vigilante justice. I mean the desire to purge the city is relatable of course because the people who could actually affect things only use their resources for greed, power grabs and corruption and breed the constant miasma of hopelessness that seems silly to combat in Gotham. Fighting the hopelessness is way harder and more heroic than becoming the biggest thing people fear.
Carried by Heath? Nah, the music, cast, suspense, dilemma, morals, even a lot of the action works for me.
My mother that hates horror movies and gore loves The Passion.
Just tell her Jigsaw is a metaphor for God or some shit and I'm sure she'll be a Saw fan in no time.
That's the weird thing with my mom. She loves WW2 history so she tolerates swearing and bloody violence only if it's in something based on a true story or otherwise tied to some historical event.
@@NeverSaySandwich1 Sure, but when that is literally all your movie has to offer then I can't really call it a great movie.
@@NeverSaySandwich1 Either way, there's just not much substance to that alone in my opinion.
@@etgohome1343 This seems like a common complaint and I guess that's something the movie can improve on. To outsiders and even some Christians, it just seems like torture porn to guilt people into feeling bad for Jesus. I feel like if they show more of the resurrection then it might sit better at least with Christians because the resurrection is just as important as Jesus's suffering. There's some touching moments when the disciples see the resurrected Jesus and I feel like these scenes can show the gospel better than just ending with a short scene of Jesus rising up with his scarred hands.
Love the fan art with you guys wearing the Kung Fu Panda costumes XD
Go away.
Come back.
This is a wild trio of films to discuss in one podcast episode lmao hell yeah
Not a complaint, but I'm the only one who notices that Ralph has some delays in his audio? It stands out a lot when the three of them are talking and it seems that Ralph has a few seconds delay when listening to Adum or Alex thus you can't hear them very well as he speaks over them instead of letting them finish their sentences.
I find it interesting that the boys keeps saying it's "impossible" to keep from comparing The Batman to The Dark Knight. I think they're super different movies tonally, structurally and thematically.
The batman did most things better than the dark knight.
@@jagmohansingh7692 Debatable
Exactly, that's the part I seriously don't get. Like what similarities? Dark tone? Is that it? I think if The Batman is close to any Batman media, then it's probably Arkham Games or stuff like that. I mean there 100% IS Nolan influence in there, obviously, but saying that it's indistinguishable is absurd to me.
Also they said that Joker and Riddler are very similar characters. How? Cuz they're insane? Joker had a boner for antagonizing himself against Batman, he wanted to bring havoc and even though he would say that it's for the message, we all know it isn't. Riddler on the other hand was a depraved, delusional incel loser who thought that Batman was working with him the entire time. He actually had a goal in mind based on stoping the corruption rather than chaos.
They're completely different. Hell I'd say Scarecrow is more similar ro Joker than Riddler
Maybe it's because tertiary characters like Carmine & Falcone are in both, and play a big part, not just Batman & the Riddler or Joker. Reeves' Gotham felt more like it was in Birds of Prey than in the Nolan films if anything, especially the Iceberg Lounge.
@@bezglavigekoofficial7649 I thought they were clear on why they couldn't stop thinking about The Dark Knight. The hostage scene, the interrogation scene, and I'll even add the ending where the villain succeeds in their plan(though in Joker's case it was delayed due to Batman taking the fall). For Riddler and Joker, I don't see that many similarities in the characters themselves, but definitely in the way their stories played out in their movies.
There was also the car chase scene, someone close to Bruce getting blown up, and maybe I'm missing something else. Considering they both happen to be Batman movies, I can see why someone can't unsee those similarities when they pile up. It personally didn't distract me as much as it did them when I saw it, but I was definitely thinking about Se7en, and when Riddler gave himself up it didn't help.
Disagree about Catwoman. I liked that even after allying herself with Batman she was still antagonistic at the end of the movie and provided a ticking clock for Batman to go to Falcone.
What you’re calling cliché is actually just being faithful to the source material. Truth be told this movie did Falcone better than Batman Begins and one of the reasons for that is they had Catwoman.
Edit: The consequence of bombing Alfred was to bring him and Bruce together. The scene where Bruce is worried about him and finally talks to him is obviously the consequence.
Indeedie. I think they didn't give certain aspects a fair chance.
Nobody cares bout the comics but you when you need to defend dumb movies
@@aperson7303 No one cares about complaining over my comment but you.
I’m not “defending” anything.
Adam said He felt like Catwoman was unnecessary to the movie and I felt differently so I’m disagreeing.
Out of the 3 of us you’re the only one butt-hurt about it.
The reason for bombing Alfred was so that they could deliver exposition to Bruce (and us) in a way that wouldn't seem repetitive (in the Wayne Manor etc.) All of their previous scenes together were pretty straightforward and there wasn't much chemistry between them and hence they needed a scene to show that Bruce cares a little. It didn't feel organic in any way. Bombing him to bring them together proves this point since two fleshed out characters with a deep relationship wouldn't generally need a big incident to bring them together but this movie used it to tell us the truth in a very non-subtle way. Would've worked if we hadn't just gotten another exposition scene earlier where Falcone lies to him about Maroni. Basically, it's just Bruce going around being told things and him taking it at face value. It wasn't organic, at least it didn't feel like that to me.
@@virajdeshpande3701I guess one can feel like that. Sorry it wasn’t good for you.
Their “deep relationship” still needed an event of some sort to occur since Bruce was clearly shutting himself from everyone for presumably decades. They went with an explosion. Could’ve been something else but it served it’s purpose.
I like how even though the movie show us that he cares for Alfred, the first thing this Bruce does is to accuse him of lying.
It’s like he really has to struggle to come over his anger and talk about how he really feels.
Felt to me like a part of him was debating to cut Alfred entirely from his life in order to never feel that pain again. And so he started the conversation by confronting him and yet it ended with them reconnecting for what feels like the first time since Bruce’s parents died.
Kinda weird that the Passion of the Christ never got a sequel about Muhammed, he was even in the end credit scene.
What? Did that actually happen?
@@regular-sizedman5329 no
One thing I think they missed a beat in The Batman on is introducing Nashton before his reveal.
Given the Riddler is usually a forensic investigator, I think it would've been awesome if he was in the back of the different murder locations, collecting evidence, without being too obvious.
Would've added more context to him going after the corrupt police commissioner, too.
A little too long, but I loved the film. Was probably my favourite batman film, mostly because I don't like Nolan's presentation of Gotham beyond Begins.
Paul Dano is too recognisable to have him simply lingering in the background. Besides, in this movie, Nashton is an accountant as I recall.
@@AimForMyHead81 Ah I've honestly never seen his face before the film so didn't suspect that to be an issue haha
I checked online and it turns out he's a forensic accountant, so basically an accountant who investigates fraud and misrepresentation. I missed the 'accountant' word when Gordon explained his identity
Totally agree about the depiction of Gotham! I always felt that in Begins the city feels like it has way more grit and texture to it (mostly due to a lot of it taking place in essentially a slum) than Dark Knight or Rises. The latter two feel way too clean and sterile, whereas the new movie makes Gotham a whole character on its own.
Forensic accountant, not investigator. He looked to the books and saw the renewal donation had loopholes which then began his search into corruption
No idea what adums talking about with the Batman score.
There is a main theme that’s repeated but the actual score is pretty varied, even the main Batman theme, that two note section only happens at the end after four or five different sections.
To me, The Batman is a better batman movie but the dark knight is a better film overall. Anyone else have that feeling?
Respectfully, cringe take my dude. I've seen this take dozens of times on the internet.
Short explanation: both movies have completely different goals for their batmen. In an interview (ruclips.net/video/GeCOKD5wEec/видео.html&ab_channel=EntertainmentWeekly), Robert Pattinson talks about which comics he looked to specifically to paint batman as mystic folk legend.
Christopher Nolan instead went for a more familiar and intimate Batman. One that was equal parts Batman, Bruce Wayne, and the man underneath. Hence the origin story.
No. TDK was great but has alot of problems. The Batman had better performances, fighting choreography, and cinematography. I also liked The Batman’s score better.
@@bigpileofpuke It's just a theme of two notes spammed relentlessly lmao.
Also, flashier cinematography =/= better.
I think they’re both technically different movie genre’s in their film execution tone wise. Dark Knight being more an action thriller and The Batman more a broody neo-noir, once the audience expectation ebbs with time I think the discourse will change. My take is both pull off effectively the tone they’re shooting for, even though The Batman is closer to my personal preference for Batman’s characterization I love the absurd mad city vibes of the Nolan universe too.
@@antoniomendes7961 Nolan’s Batman feels like his take while Reeves has his style but is more in line with year one Batman where he talks very little and comes across very self destructive
The Big issue with the Batman is that the script wasn’t Clever for a Movie that needed to be Smart to work. The Vibe and performances were awesome but the writing and dialogue felt formulated.
I feel like there was something about both the presentation of both Batman and Unmasked Riddler where riddler is almost presented as cute and childish while the Batman is almost presented as the Villain or this monster from a horror movie.
For me, this is My Favorite Batman movie. I haven't watched The Dark Knight in a good bit, but everything I remember about it in terms of the characterization, this movie blows out of the water. To me, when I think of Batman, I think of three things that made me love the character the way I do now: Batman The Animated Series, The stories starring the character by Writer/Artist Darwyn Cooke, & The 60's show. This movie captures chunks of each of those interpretations & sorta mashes them up. The psychology of the character as written by Cooke is there, some of the aesthetics of the 60s show is here (just taken to a more serious degree), & the way Batman leaves the story at the end feels like we're getting closer to that Conroy version of the character I love. but that's just my bias.
That's the thing about Batman, you can't objectively narrow it down to "three things"(not saying you are). The character is closing in on 100 years of source material at this point. It depends on what you were brought up on I guess. Personally for me, when I think about Batman, I think about The Dark Knight and the first two Arkham games.
I enjoyed The Animated Series when I was younger too but, honestly, as an adult, it's not the greatest thing ever looking back on it. A good chunk of it was kinda dull or just out of place/kinda bad, Bruce Timm had some good ideas about Batman but also some pretty bad ones. Mask of the Phantasm was the best version of that and was helped by not being restricted by being too kid friendly, and then the Arkham games perfected that formula of Batman but to the point where a lot of elements were completely different so I don't even know if I consider it to be the same version.
Definitely give The Dark Knight another watch whenever you can. I think it's not only a phenomenal film but some of the best characterization of Batman and its characters ever adapted. Batman and the Joker and their dynamic, Gordon, Dent, Alfred, all of it was taken from the comics and even enriched upon. I absolutely love that movie.
@@Crow-qm7zw Completely agree with the main take here! Batman is really the multiple versions of Batman we grow up with!
The Last Temptation of Christ” is my favorite movie about Jesus because it best illustrates how He was both man AND God. What would be more tempting than to live a normal life? Getting married to Mary Magdalene, having children, and growing old! Jesus was already tempted with “all the kingdoms of the world and their glory”, but that wasn’t enough for Jesus to renounce God (Gospel of Mark, chapter 4, verses 8 to 10).
As for the criticisms, I’ll address them to the best of my knowledge:
1. I understand that the Judeans speaking in American accents (Judas is from Brooklyn?!?) is arresting. However, it it was a deliberate choice by Martin Scorsese to differentiate the power imbalance between them and the Romans (Londoner David Bowie as Pontius Pilate). To many Americans, a British accent denotes intelligent and a higher status (the American colonies used to be part of the British Empire).
2. Casting a pale, lighter haired Jesus was also a deliberate choice. Having the “classical” way of portraying Jesus as a “You think you know this Jesus? Think again!” (From Scorsese’s director’s commentary on the Criterion Collection.
3. I will agree about portraying Mary Magdalene as a prostitute, but later scholarship disputes this assumption. I think it works for the movie as a juxtaposition of the sexual Mary and the celibate Jesus.
Also, I really resented Mel Gibson talked shit about “The Last Temptation of Christ”. Not only did he reuse the sets for the former movie for “The Passion of the Christ”, but even the idea of having the Judeans speak Aramaic and the Romans speak Latin! The only thing that I can say is that Gibson was able to successfully make the movie a hit through pandering to evangelical Christians because it didn’t challenge the “100% divine Jesus that is comforting and not challenging. Also, Gibson being confirmed as an anti-Semite really colors any subsequent viewings.
“The Batman” was good, but I was shocked that it didn’t get an Oscar nomination for Best Makeup and Hairstyling! Colin Farrell looked so different.
They should make a movie called The Passion of the Crust. It would be about being tempted by pizza.
Well, that's the subtitle of the 2nd Gingerdead man movie
I would like to see a movie where Mohamed gets tempted by bacon
Me as a celiac
I might be the only one that thought Riddler was a little bit disappointing because he wasn't in it enough. what The Dark Knight definitely has over this film is that driving antagonistic force that Heath Ledgers Joker brings.
Ralph 99% of the way through a podcast about Jesus: Talking about religion makes me uncomfortable, by the way.
I feel so bad for him now
Where does he talk about religion? If you have the time stamp.
It's not cool or fashionable to talk about this topic.
@@kairos_fluent unless you are mindlessly hating on it
@@bun197 true dat
Ralph, if you ever read this, something to meditate on - "For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." (Luke 9:26)
1:28:45 To clarify, the style they tried to emulate was the Rankin/Bass Hobbit film, not Ralph Bakshi's adaptation. Very different in style.
There are a lot of strange misconceptions about Smiling Friends, despite it being so popular.
Ben Shapiro probably hates The Batman because Riddler feels similar to Paul Dano's Prisoners character: Alex Jones
Ben thinks this movie is pro "Defund the police"
If Adum ever gets a cameo in Smiling Friends he has to play another horse character
The character better have Adum’s iconic frown
@@NoxxPie Does he even know any of the people involved with it? Why would they randomly ask him to cameo anyways?
@@NoxxPie adum is a pretty prolific internet creator, that’s why
I actually had the opportunity to hear Jim Caviezel speak a few weeks ago. He is an extremely charismatic speaker. He talked about his experience getting struck by lightning twice during the production lol
jesus christ ralph wait for people to finish and then speak
I don't think I've ever watched the whole movie of Passion of Christ but I do remember seeing some of the torture scenes and stuff (I was like 9-10? But growing up Catholic, I knew some context + it was my "edgy, puberty phase" where my friends and I would watch scary or gory stuff, like "who's the toughest among us" thing). But the scene that stood out to me was the one where Jesus' mother Mary was in the crowd and she remembers young Jesus tripping over while watching present Jesus fainting and falling to the ground. That was really moving for me, kind of a reminder that Jesus has his human side and was once a little boy. So yeah, it's mostly the flashback scenes I remember lmao.
I haven’t seen Passion since I was a kid either, but that was always the standout scene for me
I want to see The Passion of the Jesus with a Shrek. Lord Farquaad would be Pontius Pilate. donkey would either be John the Baptist or Judas.
Not sure who would play Mary.. The wolf I guess?
Gotta admit, I didnt see the crucifying in the passion of the christ coming. Very bold choice for the writer. You guys really should have had a spoiler section for these movies. :)
Catwoman is essential for Batman’s arc in this movie. She introduced the idea that Bruce Wayne/Batman is a privileged person even as an orphan. That motive is again explored by the interaction with the policeman and finally when the Riddler explains his plan. Also she is the vehicle for showing to the audience that Batman has principles whereas she doesn’t. At the end Batman realizes that fear isn’t the answer for solving Gotham’s problems is more about hope. Also it hints that probably we will see a more philanthropic Bruce in the next movie.
My theory on where they'll go with this in a sequel is that Bruce will over correct, hang up the cowl and try to solve Gotham's issue through philanthropy, only to realise some villains (cough, Joker, cough) need the Batman to defeat, and a balance must be found. Kind of like the reverse of this movie.
Cringe take
also didnt batman's combined interest and her gf's demise result in the whole down the rabbit hole gang reveal ? like yeah it was melodramatic at parts (the whole film was) but i dont think "she was inessential" was the best take
Da Resurrection: Let’s Get it Started
According to Zach Synder, Superman is Jesus which makes Batman that one thief or something whatever who cares
With Christians, you have to remember that they dogmatically believe that Jesus died for their sins. If they think literally anything else happened they feel they run the risk of burning in hell for eternity. On the flip side, they believe that heaven is basically just being with God/Jesus for all eternity and that is the greatest pleasure a human could ever feel. Any pleasure you get from appreciating art pales in comparison to heaven. The Passion reinforces that belief system while The Last Temptation critically examines it. But even that critical examination is heresy leading to hell. I agree its a warped world view, but you have to understand it to understand the reason why The Passion was successful while Last Temptation was so poorly received.
Are they bringing up that the other Batman films have other themes in their scores, as if The Batman doesn’t? Besides the Batman theme, we have the Bruce Wayne/Gotham theme, the Catwoman theme and the Riddler theme, all of which have their own distinct, memorable melody and are all brought up pretty consistently and fittingly throughout the film. It’s not just the same two notes over and over again.
Wow Adam was harsh on the Batman. I found Paul Dano to be pretty terrifying
That opening was so brutal and that frantic scream definitely caught me off-guard.
I really didn't find the Batman all that confusing tbh. I thought if anything they linked all of the stories together too well. Pretty much everyone was involved in everything.
In terms of it feeling too Nolan-y, I think it's more that they both take inspiration from a handful of the same comics.
I loved it, I think it's probably my favourite CBM but I'll need to give it time.
@@coletrainhetrick It was nothing like the Nolan films. It was far grimmer, darker and grungier in its aesthetic. If I can compare it to another comic book movie, it would honestly be the crow.
Can't wait to watch Passion 2 on Tubi
In elementary there was an assembly in the gym and without warning the crucifixion from The Passion was screened for all the children.
I dont know. Ive been a devout comic reader for 20 years now and as much as i hate putting prerequisites like that in front of my explanations for why i enjoyed something i do think that created a different experience for me. Ive been saying this since i saw it, everyones question is “is it better than TDK? The answer is no. Its not a better film than TDK, HOWEVER, as a comic reader i think its a much better BATMAN FILM. Its more comic booky to me, its more Batman centered, its actually ABOUT Bruce and Batman as opposed to almost every other Batman film being more about the villains. I just liked it, it really felt like a Batman comic from the late 80s early 90s but come to life on screen. Loved it
Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy pop up as Jesse and Celine in Waking Life so there is a Linklater extended universe
If you're not super religious, Passion of the Christ is just worthless. Instead of spreading a universally applicable message of love and helping others, it's just focused on "LOOK HOW MUCH THIS MAN SUFFERS! HE IS SUFFERING FOR YOU! AREN'T YOU GRACIOUS?!"
The fact that this became a legit phenomenon back when it came out where churches and parents were dragging people to watch an R-rated torture porn movie because "it's important" disgusts me.
dude i remember my parents making us watch it yearly as early as 4 years old cause its "important"
definitely not traumatized at all
I think there's some merit in the film since it claims to be the most accurate depiction of Jesus's death but yeah showing it to kids is super irresponsible and Christians need to explain the merits of the film or else it just looks like torture porn. When she was a kid, my friend said that she was invited to a sleepover but the parents of the house used it as a ruse to make her watch the Passion. After watching it, they asked, "are you a Christian now" and she agreed out of fear.
@@Watchful049 thats so fucked up
Self important maybe lol. It's a movie that seems to do a lot of patting it's audience on the head
@@Watchful049 It's not irresponsible but forcing it on someone is out of line. Most kids being taken to it were leaving a home where they are subjected to violence to downgrade to only watching someone else in fiction being hit for a change, which is not damaging and might get some empathy for Jesus or victims of violence in general.
Adam is the only guy who can sneak in a furry reference in a discussion about religion and make it sound natural.
to be fair, unless you're pretty into the bible or horsecock you're not gonna pick up that reference
~ 23:00 my partner had a similar criticism of Batmans "detective work" but I thought it fit really well thematically in the film and it was actually one if my favorite aspects (fwiw I was not a huge fan of this movie, I thought it was good not great, don't have an interest in watching it again).
This Batman and more importantly this Bruce Wayne is being shown as more of this tormented and fucked up person. He is delusional. He thinks it's his responsibility to go out at night in a weird costume and scare people. He thinks he's a hero when he's just a rich asshole playing dress up. He thinks he's a detective but he's just well connected and in the right places at the right times. It's always been really the working class people around him supporting him that let him succeed by any measure. I mean where would he be without Alfred? His actual servant? I am interested to see how this iteration of batman develops in later films.
Batman is inherently and inescapably a super hero power fantasy. Taking Batman seriously and exploring how Batman would be in real life is doomed to be self annulling. The character of Batman simply couldn't exist in the real world
I mean that's not how I feel about Batman as a character. He uses his wealth to tangibly help people and willingly puts his life on the line.
This is the worst take on Batman as a character.
Growing up
Me and my friends at church were not allowed to watch passion until we were older
And I’m very glad the leaders at my church and parents had the wisdom to recognize it’s definitely not for kids or even teenagers
I think the one thing I'll disagree with as far as how you boys felt about Batman, is that the one big thing The Batman really has over the Nolan films, despite any necessary criticisms you can apply, is Batman, or at least Rob's portrail of him. Say what you want about his Bruce Wayne, even though I enjoy it, Rob may be the best Batman we've had in live action.
I did get a kick out of the Riddler scene in the jail too though, but I'm so desensitized by the Adam West series that I equally think it's as intentionally funny as it would be if unintentional. It could go either way and I'd still love it.
Most fun Batman film is easily the Adam West movie. If the Sards ever spoke about that movie I'd probably die and the cum
I am a huuuuge fan of Bruce Kobain too, I love that parallel between the two of them, how the weight of the world fell on their shoulders.
This was the only episode where I've been annoyed. So much talking over each other in this one specially during the Batman discussion.
couldnt agree more with adam about the score
they could have cut out like half of the music in the movie and it would have made it so much better
and the music wasn't even that good or inspired to begin with
i would love to see a shorter directors cut with less music or something
I watched the movie twice now and I believe the score was a major contributing factor to the atmosphere. Besides, I really take issue with YMS saying the score just consists of the same two notes being played and them saying that the other Batman films have other themes, as if The Batman doesn’t. Bruce Wayne’s theme has got to be one of the best Batman themes ever written. It conveys so much within one piece and is used extremely effectively IMO.
TDK is undisputedly the better movie in my opinion, but as a Batman movie this is much better. I found Pattison’s Batman to be much more compelling, especially in comparison to Bale’s Batman, which ironically was played very blandly at best or very hilarious at worst. In fact I find it very surprising that there’s people saying the opposite and that Pattinson’s Batman was somehow bland
@Jonathan Jones I’m not sure when, but I’ve never been really much of a Bale guy anyways
@Jonathan Jones I think that the Nolan movies got memed to death
Oh man, when Paul Dano started singing Ave Maria my friends and I burst out laughing in the cinema. Absolutely hilarious 😂
Adam's anecdote about prayer in the last question seems, with all due respect, egocentric. The point of prayer is not comfort or God responding to your feelings (see Moralistic Therapeutic Deism).
Religion is not about using it as a tool to get what you want but to conform your desires/feelings to the truth claims of a religion.
Chug that copium friend
Religion brain rot is funny
@@cracktoon_powerscaling Please, go back to Reddit.
conformity good.
holy shit adam and ralph talk over each other constantly in the beginning, its unlistenable.
Who the hell is that guy cutting everyone off every 5 seconds
I'm so glad to see that good old Ralph is back ❤️
Love you guys, keep it up!!
Great podcast, guys 🤗. I'm sure you are already aware, but Stephen Fry - outside of being a brilliant man - is an openly gay comedian, author, documentarian and historian, that has delved into a lot of topics raised here, with very similar standing to Adum's experiences. He has an amazing docuseries called ; Out There. Would love to hear your thoughts on it one day. Keep up the awesome show, love what you guys do.👏👏
21:30 can we get a full hour of ralph talking about zoe kravitz catwoman
26:26 If only Ralph used this line of thinking when it came to Joker.
I never tought about the double standards that religious groups have with violence in the passion of the crhist and any other movie.
Religious groups, they will demand your respect but force their views in any aspect of live
@@NeverSaySandwich1 Many movies have points to their violence, but MPAA and conservative America will have a problem with that. But this movie gets a pass, even when is part of the ones that use violence just for shock value, like you said, just to highlight that a violent death was violent. No deeper meaning there.
@@vjara94 I'd personally argue that the deeper meaning implied by the Passion was to bring sympathy. It isn't violence for the purpose of violence, it's violence to help the audience understand what the burden of human sin meant for Jesus. It's truly a shame that many Christians don't see the value of violence in movies when that same purpose in depicting violence (ie the cost of sin) still exists in other stories
@@daniellaguilles8955 but that's not deeper meaning, it's the only meaning, but no one can denied is highly effective in making a character sympathetic, and in that note, the last temptation does the exact opposite, where misery is not an exchange for character development to gain the audience sympathy.
I don't even dislike this movie that much, just the show that surrounded it.
@@vjara94 I guess what I'm trying to say is that Christians should try to see the same value in depicting violence in movies because many of them don't. Whether or not we call this value 'deeper meaning' it's important for them to see that it can exist through violence outside of movies depicting Christ.
@@NeverSaySandwich1
Ah, so the "point" of The Passion's violence is about guilt-tripping, got it.
A crucifixion would be that gory
always ready for a Sardonicast dose, thank you bois.
It's crazy, but I just so happened to have been reading up on Terrence Malick as I was listening to this, and he just so happens to be making his own film about Jesus.
I felt y’all’s criticisms on the Batman theme used over and over in the movie. I’m actually going to school for film score composition and when I watched the movie I LOVED the score but as Adam said when it’s the same theme with the same two notes again and again it really does get irritating. They could’ve changed the harmonization of the melody or add a different chord progression for some variations of the Batman theme but 🤷♂️
It never really bothered me, it felt like an act of dread and tension less like a hero theme but I get why it could
@@thomasjohnson1885 I actually felt the same way when it came to the feeling of dread and tension as you say.
I can only think of a few movies that pull repetition off.. SICARIO comes to mind
i was a little disappointed with that joker tease at the end, I may be in the minority but I wanna see the Joker character rest for a while. Batman has an incredible rouges gallery and I'm just a little tired of seeing the clown again.
Ye that was definitely a studio mandate, felt so forced. There's been like 4 different jokers in the past few years, he's getting tiring
YMS: (Gives The Batman a 6/10)
HiTop: OPEN UP
I would give it a 6, and I really liked it.
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 I’d give it a 7. I liked it, but takes itself WAY too seriously and could have used some trimming down.
I know I'm in the minority, but I thought the dialogue in Batman was just incredibly cringey.
So much cliched dialogue throughout. When Catwoman said, "we're not so different, you and me," I nearly lost it
No no, I also think that
Not 'The Resurrection of The Christ'? Seems like a more appropriately elegant title for something like this.
I was looking for a time stamp to the religious discussion, but Adam wrote a detailed transcript minute by minute what goes on and what is said. Is he alright? Should someone check on him?
He doesn't write it an ai does
I agree 100% with Adam's views on religion. I was raised strictly religious. When i was 13 or 14 i would just sit in our backyard and think about how horrific and bizarre it was that my thoughts, a thing that i could not control, were being constantly monitored for sin. Their interpretation of God must be so fickle and intolerant. My parents were very serious about religion, and when i started drawing weird things and listening to heavier and heavier music they were worried and tried to stop it. I don't blame them. They are wonderful people who were convinced that they were doing the right thing, controlled by fear. Fear and guilt is all that religion has bestowed on my life. Whenever i go to church i feel like my spirit is being crushed. My brain simply will not let me believe in something that i cannot feel or touch, but i can just feel the ideology trying to seep in and re-write my brain. I can feel it saying "Your brain should be the canal of God, your words should be the words of God, your identity should be absorbed by God, the fact that you are not happy right now means that you are not a part of God and are, therefore, a vessel fit only for destruction". Horrifying shit.
You guys should have Arin from game grumps on for next episode, Speed Racer is unironically his favorite movie.
I thought the exact same thing the moment they brought up Speed Racer. That would be amazing!
Two friends of mine hold it in really high regard and I'm actually eager to see it, they're really into the Coens and all kinds of weird good shit like In Bruges so I don't *doubt* them per se... Just not exactly sure what to expect
How they managed not to bring the controversies of Passion is crazy
The more I think about it, the more Adam’s take on the score makes absolutely no sense. Like really? The WHOLE score is the same two notes? Lmao. I’ve listened to the entire soundtrack after watching the movie, and that is very much not an accurate description of what it sounds like.
The Batman was better than Joker.
Oh, yeah, definitely
Joker has way fewer problems with the plot than The Batman, Joker is objectively better.
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 lmfao ok
I really enjoyed watching The Batman. It was my first movie at a theater in years and was definitely fun in IMAX. It was the best movie theater experience I have had in a decade or two. I only had a few small nitpicks with it. Spoilers below:
(1) Spraypainting the conspiracy clues on the floor felt too cliche.
(2) The editing of the attack at Wayne Manor that injured Alfred felt a little sloppy and confusing. You're left wondering why Alfred isn't answering the phone, but really Batman is calling an hour after the attack. And when Dory (the maid answers) she doesn't answer like a normal person would. It's all engineered for suspense.
(3) Seems like they gloss over that innocent civillians must have died in the car chase.
(4) Some of the riddle solutions were confusing on a first watch. This very well could be a problem with me missing it. I was confused on how Batman deduced that the cipher key had a message and what they were eliminating to make it visible, as well as the explanation of El Rata and what it meant (even the characters were confused about that).
So the drive thing was because they already had the letters and as Alfred was deciphering it the letters started to form.
“You are El rataa alada” is actually a smart word play. For someone who hasn’t learned basic Spanish, you would read that as “you are the rat with wings” or something like that. BUT you actually say it like “la rataa alada.” Riddler has been very calculated with his riddles, so it couldn’t have been a mistake. Say the words together and you get “You are el rataa alada”, “url rataaalada”
I think the problem with riddler, or at least one of them, isn’t that he’s not in it enough- it’s that his presence isn’t felt at all when he’s not on screen. Zodiac works because the zodiac’s presence is felt in every scene through the performances and just the general air of tension across the whole city, which we get glimpses of through the leads’ families. This movie doesn’t have that AT ALL. And, when riddler is on screen, we see way too much of him. There’s no mystery, there’s nothing to be scared of. It’s all right there in the open, he- the RIDDLER- just says exactly what he means all of the time in well-exposed phone footage
I wanted to watch this yesterday but Adum uploaded his 5 hour long Twitter discussion so I had to watch that first. No complaints just funny timing.
What's that saying? "There's no hate like Christian love"
[ looks up Ezekiel 23:20 ]
God dammit Adum, of course you know that one.