Daniel Defense H9
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2024
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InRange has extensive history with the Hudson H9, being there for the beginning..and the end of that saga. Daniel Defense has now released their version of the H9, bringing it effectively back to the market in a new guise. Let's shoot it and get some first impressions.
It's a great sign of the market when Yet Another Good Pistol is only whelming.
Karl's shirt is wonderful.
I will like this video based on the hat alone.
It's a high function hat
I liked due to the t-shirt.
The hat is quite exceptional.
Obviously Karl frequents only the very best haberdashers.😅😂
It’s an epic fucking hat mate
Hey Karl, when that hat has pups, can I have one ?
Absolutely
Well timed release with Daniel Defense acknowledging the keyholing problem today.
Where did you see the acknowledgement? I’d like to see it.
Mine keyholed…Daniel Defense has been in possession of my gun since 02/29/2024 for its second trip for warranty work. It is 04/24/2024.
@@HollyrockFarmthey sent a mass email out about it. They redesigned the barrel. Said it would be about 30 days before everyone could start the exchange process.
@@The_Lorax0331 …Either my spam filter ate it or they forgot me… Thank you!
There’s some rootin tootin vibes right dere. I tell you what.
Yee haw
For $1300? Yeah I'll buy just about anything else for half the price.
I think DD thought everyone would buy this at its insane price because it has the DD name on it.
Well, they do for their overpriced ARs, so why wouldn't they?
It has a trigger chassis. DD should've went with a polymer frame to make it less expensive. Then offered metal grip frames later.
@@stevem4783their ARs are worth the price for the rail and barrel. Have you ever owned one?
Kind of the MO for Daniel Defense in general
For years I have felt that my Colt 1911's shot low and I would "tripod" my sights at 15-25 yards when shooting, cause I would always be hitting my target in the stomach rather than the high A zone that I aimed at.
This isn't an issue with my Staccato 2011s (I run red dots on them now, so even more so a non-issue)
I thought I was crazy and it was me. This blows my mind. It all makes sense now, learned something today.
For a $1300 price point, there are numerous pistols with better sights, better trigger, better recoil, also optic ready. Shadow 2 compacts can be found close to that price now, for instance. Not to mention any number of much cheaper pistols that you can spend the difference tricking out to your particular preferences.
Does it have the cool low bore axis though, i think not
Shadow 2 compact sucks. No drop safety or decocker. I’ll take one of the new berettas over it.
@@soylentgreen7074 I didn't imply it was a gun everyone liked, I was making a point that a new competition-style pistol was near that price point. Just pretend I put your favorite representative pistol in place of that one if it helps stroke your ego.
@@n0tthemessiah my comment had zero to do with ego but ok…
I was assuming you meant for carry since you mentioned the compact. I guess I assumed wrong.
@@soylentgreen7074you haven’t shot the S2C if you say ”it sucks”…or you have no taste in guns. 😂 It’s an excellent pistol.
What is the point of a 12 o clock hold? I dont understand why you would want to shoot when you cant see your target.
If I’m honest, I should probably change my sights to a 6 o clock hold, but I find it works to just line up on the target and pull trigger. My Jericho 941 though has chunky sights unlike my Beretta 84BB making 12 o’ clock holds difficult. Generally there’s still for my guns enough gap to know what im shooting or where roughly. Man sized target, I’d have no issue
For combat/reflex shooting, I prefer center hold, especially with night sights. both eyes open, front dot covers target. But, six is fine too. 12 is just weird.
It's really one of two things: either it's a manufacturing defect they don't want to fix (front sight too tall, rear sight too short), or it's deliberate to accommodate people who shoot fast and tend to show more front sight above the rear sight. Neither is compelling. All pistols should have the sights regulated for a middle or 6 o'clock hold.
@@WeaponsAffairI think that’s what they’re calling 12 o clock. I also prefer center hold it’s the way all my Glocks and other pistols shoot except my sigs
Sig uses the Combat Hold and with a Sig X-Ray sights with colored front sight and blacked out rear sights, I kinda get it.
At close self-defense distances even with irons I shoot both eyes open and target focused, so I just reflexively put that front sight dot on target.
For anything else though, I prefer middle/6 o'clock hold.
Though in reality, I just have red dots on everything now...
and then we'll do a 3rd video, the mud test
MUD
TEST
MUD
TEST
The market was different when the first H9 came out, very few people then thought that a 2011 style gun could be reliable enough for defensive uses but that has changed. There are now metal framed striker fired guns available for less than the price of the original H9 with more readily available parts.
In some ways it's making me think of the Dornaus & Dixon Bren Ten. When it was first launched it had promise as it had the kind of features shooters at the time wanted but the company failed for reasons other than the design of the gun (in D&D's case it was poor QC of the frame and slide castings) and then some years later the gun is brought back with some updates they try again (the Peregrine Falcon, successor to the Bren Ten) but by the time it comes back the market has moved on and it's too little, too late.
The action of nearly every successful gun on the market is a "2011 (1911) style" locked breech tilting barrel system. Why would anyone think that universally copied system is unreliable?
@@kodiakkeith Its not the overall browning titling barrel style operation so much as its the details, particularly the magazines. The 2011 type guns until the last few years were all also made with the intention of being competition only guns and features such as short chambers and lightening cuts can be detrimental to function in less than clean environments but provide advantages in a competition setting.
The issue with 2011 magazines was that for some time you had to tune them to the gun you were using them in. This definitely detracted from the off the shelf reliability.
@@kodiakkeith The problem with 2011s (and before that Para-Ord widebody 1911s) was never the action, it was the magazines.
Can't blame the gun for that.
I've never had an interest in the H9, but i gotta say, having to aim for a nebulous point above the target you're trying to shoot, completely obscuring said target behind iron sights, sounds super appealing!
Sig Combat sights have entered the chat
I always appreciate all Your content . Thank You. Shoot Straight Stay Safe & Stay Well.
The original was a bunch of internet hype. Karl even says the recoil mitigation was weight. The DD version is more hype from the many of the same guntubers that will repeat whatever they are paid to say. When new things come to the market beware when everyone says how "great" it is before you spend your money.
Who's saying it's great? Most reviews I've seen are trashing it for the keyholing, trigger, and price.
@@stevem4783 It doesn't take much to find guntubers saying the original and this one is "great". This hype happens with lots of firearms and its usually from the same channels.
@@mrtlsimon There's always obvious shills out there. That's why you don't take anyone's opinion as gospel, just piece together the available info as best you can and come to your own conclusions.
I cannot thank you enough for the information on holds. I have a a Glock and Beretta and always hit low with my dad’s 1911. Had no idea why because it never occurred to me different guns use the sight picture differently.
A note of the plate system. There have been multiple people that have had plates delivered where the holes in the plate did not line up properly with the holes in the slide.
Blown away!!!!! Did I see Sinistral smile @ 13:00 AND 14:00????????
That hat is absolutely splendid.
An interesting appraisal , thanks Karl and Russell
It's unfortunate that this design is underwhelming... when the H9 was first coming out, I was excited to see where it would go (although, I expect most people with a mind for it would have predicted that it would fail, as it did). Interesting to see that Daniel Defense is reviving it, sorry to hear that it's still not particularly worth it. Thank you as always for the video!
Thank you for an honest review and being honest about your personal biases, even if it comes down to having to admit it is not the world beater we all hoped it would be!
Gotta say Your hat stole the show ! DD took away the THICCness which is just wrong.
With my Glocks, I shoot with my front sight a bit higher than the rear and aim a bit low. With the three dots in a triangular arrangement I can acquire a sight picture faster than having them in a straight horizontal line.
I'm so confused by the design choices made here. The original H9 was a very different object to everything else being made at the time, even just visually, it clearly wasn't another, boring version of the same, basic idea as every other pistol. It had its own thing going on. This thing appears to be just another modern pistol, just with janky sights and no real advantages, over its predecessor, or anything else on the market. In removing the chunky features at the front, and removing weight from the piece in general, DD appear to have completely deleted any specific value the original concept had, and I don't understand that decision at all. The old school H9 was heavier than some pistols. No one who was in the market for a pistol like that gave the slightest shit about that though, so why change it for aluminium? It's such a weird choice for a company like Daniel Defence to make, considering how competently their other products are made and marketed in general.
As a complete layman I thought it looked way different than the original at the front, which seemingly much smaller "overhang". Looks like I'm not imagining things.
I had heard the aluminum frame thing was actually something alot of people were asking for, and that hudson kinda shot themselves in the foot by implying they would release an aluminum frame version at some point in the future, so naturally lots of people decided to wait for this new version and not buy the current version, which contributed to poor sales, meaning there was no money to develope any future versions, and when combined with the existings guns having to be constantly sent back for warranty work, lead to them ultimately folding. I figured this was part of the reason DD just opted for aluminum right out of the gate. as for why people wanted it, i'd assume it had to be people wanting it for concealed carry, and generally speaking a lighter gun is gonna be more convenient to carry around all day.
An interesting turn of events that Hudson folded because potential buyers were waiting for the aluminum model. Now that DD has finally built the aluminum version it's just meh. Hudson probably still would have gone bankrupt even if they had been able to make the aluminum model.
That's the entire dilemma with gun development. We've pretty much hit peak design with the guns we have on the market, so there's no real reason to create something "new" ... but without people creating "new" stuff, the market will just stagnate (and maybe we'll miss out on something real cool). So I guess we need people like the Hudsons to go out and bankrupt themselves coming up with new stuff hoping that maybe a new innovation sticks every once in a while.
Karl Marx described this phenomenon as the tendency of the rate of profit to fall
That´s one mighty fine hat, pardner.
Well done 👍
Enjoy your work thank you.
I know this is off-topic, but Karl’s t-shirt is ace. And, man, that is a hat *brim*…
Thanks for explaining why you feel that sight picture concept is wrong. Too many people are just going to leave it at "I don't like the way I'm supposed to use these sights."
I've been looking forward to this...
I always kinda thought part of the recoil management in the original design was the lowered recool spring axis. The DD H9 with the standard recoil spring axis just looks like another pistol to me.
I hate 12 o’clocks also, I like dead on or 6 o’clock. 6 o’clock is easy for longer range because you don’t have to cover your target. Same as in high power shooting. You can ‘lolly pop’ the dot over the sight instead of covering it. Many people shoot that way and I think I remember Karl saying that in the past for high power shooting. I was surprised to hear him say all 1911 style guns shoot 12 o’clock for him. I personally haven’t experienced that. They are usually dead on with fixed sights. Ones with adjustable sights I will adjust to a 6 o’clock hold.
Long time viewer first time commenter. I had purchased the original H9, I found your interviews with the original owners the Hudsons quite remarkable. I guess you did to some degree cover their trials and tribulations getting it to market. The same way you did with the I believe the Hill and Mac Sturmgewehr. They both failed, I've never understood why you failed to follow the story to the end. Never have been a fan boy of the Glock but understand the virtues. That's why they make so many different guns because there are so many different people. Always enjoy your videos, seemed true and authentic, never understood why your zeal initially never followed it to the finality.
There was nothing to cover? I'm not sure what there was to cover. We discussed the H9A. They blew up. As I understand it, they didn't return a bunch of customer's guns that were in for repair. Daniel Defense buys the name or something and here we are. That seems like following it to the end to me? :)
dang, that footage of the original gun is great. When you were shooting the DD model I thought the recoil looked easy to deal with but next to the old footage I really see what you mean.
Love the t-shirt Karl.
Is the bullet tumbling in flight a bug or a feature??
Random crit on unarmored targets
We didn't experience that problem, although Daniel Defense has recently said that they've been been able to re-create it with a small batch of guns and a specific brand of ammo. They seem to be addressing it so give them props for that.
@@tryxxor ipsec should add 2 points for keyholing alpha for maximum gamer points.
I have a stock Ruger SR1911 and it shoots to a 6:00 hold, so not all 1911’s are at 12:00. Great video!
Therapist: “Glock 1911 isn’t real, it can’t hurt you.”
Glock 1911:
I'm not sure if I'm willing to take a chance on this gun. Even after Daniel Defense taking over. I don't feel it's different enough from a Sig, HK, or Glock for the price.
I had the same 12 o clock hold with two different PSA dagger slides. Luckily the red dot fixed that.
I paid a little more than half the H9's MSRP for one of Springfield Armory's Hi Power clones and I have to say it sounds like I made the far better investment.
I missed the Hudson; alongside the Alien Laugo it really got my hopes up... and I never really was disappointed in either :)
It wins in the looks department, but yeah the 12 oclock hold is a not a feature I'm looking for.
My main carry gun uses the 12 o'clock hold. To compensate i blacked out the front sight and made a new dot on its base. Its a love the gun but hate the sights thing. I dont see why manufacturers do it with most of us not liking it.
I have a tisas 9mm 1911 and it has a dead on hold. It does hit low and left sometimes but thats user error.
Honesty Is The Best Policy!
Thank You Both for your Honesty!
For That Money!?! One can Buy Two or Three Other Reputable Firearms!
Just a amazing video
Got about 1,500 rds through mine. Threw an RMR on top and I really do like the gun. Feels good and it likes to run fast, but I really don't know who they made this gun for. Its bigger than what most people want for a carry gun, and smaller than what people want for competition. There are just better options for both
i think the point of the combat 12oclock hold sight picture is to use it similarly with a red dot with both eyes open, superimposing the front sight dot right ontop of the target and your non dominant eye keeping track of target. lots of uspsa shooters do it with fiber front sights and target only focus. this takes alot of practice and high round counts to shoot well this way on far or difficult targets without messing up the sight alignment 😅 6 o'clock or center split holds with a front sight focus are alot easier for me and most people i think 😅
Mine has been back with Daniel Defense for over a month. It was keyholing with 115 gr Fiocchi. The same ammunition shot fine out of a Glock, HK, and a SIG. Other people have had issues with a variety of ammunition (some videos here on RUclips). I have had emails and voicemails that have gone unanswered. I have to keep calling and get a person on the phone to get any updates. At last check my pistol was with the gunsmith for "testing".
I know Daniel Defense has released a statement saying they are going to have a program where people can mail in their barrels for replacement. Apparently they made a redesign of the barrel. That is a little confusing to me as from what they said at SHOT they had already redesigned practically all of the pistol. I guess it needed another redesign. It seems odd that in a purported 1,000,000 rounds of testing that this issue wasn't found if it was a design problem. It seems to me more like a problem when they moved to fuillscale production.
I love that shirt it’s the best
excellent hat
I followed the story of the H9 on inrange and i always wanted one. By the time i was able to buy one they were already gone. I just thought it looked cool and it being different was my main interest.
Neat!
I wanted to like this gun. Rented it at my local range and noticed the same thing you did about the sights, let the front sight sit on top of the rear sights and it shoots just fine. The problem I had was MULTIPLE failure to feed into battery after my first 30 or so rounds. (I put a total of 100 rounds through it) They seemed to occur at random, full mags as well as partially full. Sometimes back to back. My hand actually got sore from slamming the back of the slide forward, that was how often it happened. Overall it was a very disappointing experience. I felt like the gun did handle well, when it worked. But there were so many failures it just made it not fun to shoot. I didn't notice any keyhole but I wasn't really looking for it. My other concern for this is the durability/longevity of that recoil spring design. Thats a lot of force being put on a little tab that's sticking up. Over time, I wonder if that tab could potentially break. I do hope DD can get the issues fixed, but I can't call this a reliable gun right now. Not from my experience.
It would be very interesting to see a comparison of this "low bore axis" concept with the Archon which seems to be an actual low bore axis pistol for like 300 bucks less than the H9.
I think you need to put a red dot on it and put it on the clock. After the mud test 😉
After getting just a phenomenal hand gun with my Canik for less than $700 I just have a hard time getting excited about pretty much any $1000+ striker fired.
It might be a fun experiment to try the original alongside a DD version weighted down with attachments to replicate the balance and overall weight of the original. But, if you would rather not shoot your original H9, that's understandable.
Want a low recoil aluminum frame with good sights out of the box and not optics ready? Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you the CZ P01!
How much do you want to bet that the sights were speced in the data that DD bought and they just didn't change them?
They changed every other part 🤷♂️
Any chance u could show us the holster ur using for Deadeye Division?
Mines shoots perfectly fine. And I don’t have to aim “higher” to get it where I want.
That hat is freakin epic
Canick warren are also seem to be "combat 12 O'clock" hold" as well I do not like them but have not replaced it yet.
Good review. Mine is also trash
Well at least it has an red dot ready slide so the sights are't as big of an issue. As most people who will use this for more than plinking will put a red dot on it.
Also nice hat Karl.
Oh the hilarity. The OG H9 was killed because everyone wanted to wait for the lightweight carry gun, because that was the hotness at the time, and now DDs H9 is getting a cool reception because everybody wants a heavy competition gun, and they put out a lightweight carry gun.
And everybody is going to end up buying a Glock at the end of the day anyway.
What brand of gloves are being used in the video, the black ones?
I would have liked to see a side by side comparison or somethin
Karl is the best gun tuber out there. His hat is the second best.
I would love parts for my original so I'm not terrified to use it. I was hoping this would shoot like the Hudson. Guess ill still carry the Beretta.
Man I understand yall don’t think it shoots better than the original but watching yall hit that spinner it looked like it had no recoil. Even with the goofy sight hold yall were drilling it.
Is it because the original 1911 had tiny, barely visible sights?
How was the muzzle flip? I didn't watch the entire interview, but from what I remember, the point of dropping the recoil spring isn't to reduce but to redirect the recoil.
It won't beat an Alien, but few has a lower bore axis, maybe Strike One?
Since when did 1911 type pistols have a 12 o'clock hold? All of mine are 6 o'clock, though the Girsan did need a new sight to rectify that (It came with a 12 o'clock hold).
What about dead eye division and the 1866 Winchester content you teased in an earlier video? I want to know more about the 44 Henry ammo setup!
Working on it. These edits take time.
@@InrangeTv ok, thanks man
Firearms design and manufacturing is a messy business. I hope you and Ian didn't get burned too bad. People can be really ruthless and belligerent when it comes to brands or personalities involving guns. Often makes me wonder why anyone bothers designing anything new at all when you're just opening yourself up for public ire and almost cerrtain commercial failure.
Best wishes to you and the channel's future! ❤️
Based on what I'm hearing here, I don't believe the firearm will leave the market. The market will leave the firearm.
Hi, I heard you on Behind the Bastards and have come to see what fun and nonsense is going on.
Hey, people may be dunking on your hat(looks like Yosemite sam’s) but I bet it is breathable and nice to have the sun off your face. “If it looks stupid but works, it isn’t stupid.” -unknown
And I personally don’t think it looks stupid. I bet if you gave someone that hat and a 🧢 baseball cap, and told them to stand in the desert all day, 9/10 would pick your hat and apologize.
I bought the least cowboy looking cowboy hat I could find because the wide brim keeps the sun off you from every angle, but I don't like people thinking I'm a cowboy. Baseball hats are keeping the sun out of your eyes. Proper hats keep the sun off you entirely.
@@IlIlllIllIlIIIll good points. And yes the sun off your shoulders and neck probably feels amazing as well.
@@IlIlllIllIlIIIll a big enough hat is almost like an umbrella
@@IlIlllIllIlIIIlli prefer USGI "boonie" sun hats the older vietnam era ones, in jungle green, for outdoor sun shade. The more modern ones have narrower brims. The marerial breaths decently and real ones are made of ripstop and quite durable.
For 1300, I can get a Langdon Tactical 92G, P30, or a PX4, all substantially better!
I like my stock 92GTS more than the H9
The steel frame pdp costs a little more but does everything better.
nice hat
If the point of the unique design was to reduce recoil via lowered bore axis, and it doesn't, what's the point other than cool new tech?
I like the looks and steel frame of the original H9 better. I also feel having a aluminum frame should be cheaper than steel. Way faster to make and easier on tooling. I'll keep my original in box in the safe as a collector piece. Wish the parts were interchangeable.
Good info. I can't get it in CA anyways, but I wouldn't pay $1300 for it.
Nice hat
Is that a 10 gallon hat or is Karl just happy to see the H9?
I also hate a 12 oclock hold, but the thing about getting less input on what's going on only happens if you are front sight focusing. The thing about front sight focus on sights being the only/correct way is a myth. Target focus, just like combat had been in human history up until the point gun sights were a thing. It's not hard to do and you can still make accurate shots. I can do 100yd shots with a G19, target focus on irons.
I've got terrible sight but the irons are not blurry. And even if they are for you, you line up the blurs as they all look equal. Equal gap in between the blurs, equal height on the tops of them. Same as front sight focus, but you can see your target.
The Daniel Heatfense Hat9
DD made an H9 for CCW. That's it, for the upsides and downsides.
Hudson had their chance they had a window to make it and dropped the ball…meh is the perfect review for this. IDK what DD was thinking with this one
I would love to see a comparison of the DD H9 with the Sig P365 X Macro-either one with an aluminum grip (e.g., Icarus Precision) or the P365 Legion AXG.
I have one, it’s a better gun
@@SinistralRifleman Which one is better? And why do you think so?
Compare this to a cz p01 in a torture test since it's kinda in the same category ❤
So this means that everyone who's been saying that bore axis doesn't really matter was right.
What was it about the H9 that drew your attention and interest in it way back when? Just getting an insight into the design, development, and manufacturing of a new firearms product, or was there something specific about the design or philosophy (or anything else) that led to the original videos?
As an aside, there my be increased recoil due to the lockup or other inherent factors aside from weight... that said, it's a shame it doesn't actually do what its intended to especially at its price.