Greg Anderson Shows You How To Hone An Engine Block!
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2022
- Go inside KB Racing and watch as NHRA Pro Stock's winningest driver shows you how to hone an engine block. Greg Anderson and Lake Speed Jr provide detailed, step by step instructions for honing an engine block for modern piston rings.
The process today is different than 10 years ago because piston rings today are made of different materials and coatings than they were 10 years ago.
This method of honing to size and plateau finishing for texture recently delivered Greg's NHRA record 100th Pro Stock win, so make sure to check out this one of a kind, inside look into how a championship winning Pro Stock team builds engines.
For more on the backstory of this engine project, check out this video: • Lake Speed's Ford C3 N...
#engine #enginetechnology #enginebuilding #totalseal 
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great show lake greg is the man he doesn't just drive he builds engines to
i really don't respect racers that don't work on their motors keep building them
greg so you can beat that red car
Greg is Old School! We like that!
Lake: Yet again high technical content explained for the less than smart. Thanks for all the numbers and steps !
Thanks!
What they didn’t mentioned is how special this machine is. It can actually dynamically sense the bore and pause in certain sections for extra time if it detects a high spot. It’s an amazing machine.
Very nice this channel..cheers from Malaysia..
In my motorbike i'm using the 25° crosshatch at my cylinder block
Awesome video, I love this stuff
Thanks!
So informative! GA gives the details...
Absolutely!
Getting Greg Anderson to hone your cylinders. Good thing you got that on video. Otherwise it’s another Bigfoot sighting story.
It may not seem like it, but the actual technique of using the rougher grit abrasive all the way to size and then just counting strokes with the plateau abrasive is quite revolutionary. Most machine shops are using the older technique that removes more stock with the final final abrasive, which greatly reduces the valleys left on the cylinder bore surface.
I currently have Tennessee Abrasive diamond and CBN hones for my Rottler HP3. They’re in 80, 275/325, 325/400, 600 CBN grit.
I’ve been following and listening to these techniques explained.
I am really trying my best to emerge out of my home based shop that has to stay hobby level while on my property.
I was shopping for a profilometer when I began learning about 6 and 8 stone holder honing heads.
Then there is the arc pivot hone issue I have.
It’s adding up to become an overwhelming cost in order to maintain confidence in the trade.
Sure we all want minimal wear and friction and maximum seal.
It’s just becoming evident that doing so with affordable tools isn’t achievable for myself.
@@hughobrien4139 It sounds like you are on the right track. There are always diminishing returns on all of these details. Since you already have an HP3 hone and the diamond and CBN abrasives (Kenny makes some great stuff), you can get the majority of benefit just by following the advice in the video. The 275/325 diamonds to size with 8 to 10 strokes with the 600 CBNs will get you in a good place. The profilometer can verify the finish, but that process should yield an Rpk in the 10-15 range, Rk in the 40 to 45 range and a Rvk of 40 to 50. That will be good for 90% of all engines.
My problem is that my background in the auto machining industry has been in the high performance side.
NHRA Super Comp, Top Sportsman.
I worked the induction side back then. We had several world champions we built and maintained engines for.
So I often get asked to do the routine on these engines.
I would like to slowly step into it as smart as I can without absorbing debt in these uncertain times.
Needless to say it has been very upsetting for myself and a few potential customers.
Just another case of hard choices being fact.
@@hughobrien4139 Got it. Not seeing what you already know is really hard, and like you said, there is a cost to reach the next higher level in performance.
I want to hear more from Greg
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Lake Speed and a legend
No doubt! Greg is the MAN!
He needs to shut up and let Greg talk
Greg is doing the plateau hone correctly(glad to see it) but there are still a few refinements that could be done to make it even better. Cross hatch angle is one parameter and microscopically altering the plateaus is another that no one has figured out yet.
Yup with a torque plate and block at normal operating temp. So everything twists and distorts during regular operation.. so the hone job will be true at operating torque and Temps.
Greg is the Man!
Good stuff. Really interested to see the ring package and then the engine break in and ultimately the power and blow by measurements on the dyno.
It is coming soon. We will visit CP Pistons in get into all the details.
1:48 I've seen that on a teardown ,where the hone is worn off the cylinder in the region where the head bolt is.
Distortion is real.
Yes it is!
Once Again....Thanks for all that you do!
Thanks Jeff!
I assume similar would be recommended for chrome rings now since they are hard or is it still preferred to run them on a coarse finish to make them lap themselves in.
Great question. Chrome rings still need the rougher finish to lap themselves in just as you said.
Love all the vids, but maybe just one person speak at a time.
They both have a lot to say, LOL
I think Mr speed needs to listen a little more lol
@@xxkingslayemxxgamer5553 I'm sure he knows the topic, but for sake of the viewer.
Let Greg talk
Are you running the same crosshatch angle on the 180 diamond and the 600 cbn?
Yes! You want to keep the same crosshatch angle on both processes to keep the surface finish uniform as it wears.
Good stuff as always LSJ...
Thanks!
I`d love to see a sbc engine shootout between Warren Johnson and Greg Anderson.
We'd all like to see that!
Do you run hot water thru block to heat block up to simulate running temp.??
Yes!
Lake is it ok to use gapless rings on a semi street semi daily driver N/A eventually going turbo
You can, especially for a boosted engine that sees limited street use.
I love this content. Would it be possible to do some 2 stroke content as well? Maybe you do Senior's Komets?
Also, some vids on nikasil cylnders?
That is on the calendar for 2023.
Curious if the material (aluminum or iron) of the torque plate and hardness (60Rc very hardest on most scales) will matter? Or the torque material and hardness of the cylinder head is designed for the specific torque plate? I think I might be putting too much thought into the foundation of the torque plate 😂
Using one is better than not. Having one the even more closely approximates the cylinder, the better.
Can a backyard hack like me approximate this deep valley/smooth plateau finish with a three stone hone in the same-ish grits? (Key word = APPROXIMATE). Just as a thought experiment, assume bore is within spec for taper and roundness.
Not trying to build any type of crazy power, mostly interested in raising the bar on what is considered “good” ring sealing….for the benefits to longevity.
Enjoying your videos. Thought provoking stuff.
Thanks for the question. Yes, Sunnen actually published a paper in the late 1980's that recommended going to size with a JHU123 (70 grit) stone and then finishing with 600 Cork Bond for 60 seconds. That's for honing with a CV-616.
@@TotalSeal Perhaps there are other providers, but the finest stone I can find for the shadetree-type 4 inch, 3 stone hone….is like 400 grit.
@@nateb8245 Dang, doesn't look like you can replicate this type of finish with a backyard hone.
This is the most important machining process you can do for an engine - here's where you don't skimp
@@nateb8245 If you gonna hand hone your engine I recomend at least spending the money on Sunnen Micro adjust hone. It utilizes the same head as some of the more budget oriented honing machines and uses Sunnen AN series stones, which will give you proper grits for desired finishes and even platue brushes available. The real magic is up to the operator. My personal opinion is them spring hones I see everyone using here on youtube are weapons lol
Have you guys worked with chromoly sleeves before? I'd love to see what it takes for a chromoly sleeve and steel piston in a diesel application.
Great question! Even Chromoly cylinders need this same finish, but the grits might be different as the hardness of the sleeve affects how it hones.
@@TotalSeal thanks for the quick reply and truly invaluable expertise.
It’d be nice if y’all would do more street spec content. Maybe even oof them Toyota V8s
Understood. These practices do apply to street engines, and not just US based V8’s.
Can i deglaze with a 120 ball hone and install new moly rings?
Will they seat?
You can deglaze with a ball hone, and Moly rings are forgiving when it comes to ring seal.
@Total Seal Piston Rings appreciate your response this is my first time with moly rings lost of cast ring engines gonna try it out
Hey guys I need a little help. What honing oil should I be using with 200 grit diamond stones with a sunnen rod hone on small engine bores.
The QuakerCut 004PE is an excellent honing oil.
@@TotalSeal Thank you.
A tenth of a thousands is raal close to the finishing size using diamonds. Do you guys go a half a thou over for extra clearance too?
No. Go to the size that provides the piston to wall clearance the piston manufacturer recommends.
@@TotalSeal I just did a Ford 390 at 4.0800 (Silv-o-lite marks the boxes with sizes), and the pistons feel tight going in (I did not mike the pistons to verify, and re-verified with my bore gauge). I think next time I do a Ford I'll give'em that extra half a thou just in case - a little loose is better than tight.
I have a 550 hp sbc being built now. The machine shop honed the cylinders to 40 thousandths from 30 instead of boring it and didn't use a torque plate would you be concerned?
While that is not ideal, it is not a problem for a factory iron block with that bore size.
@@TotalSeal would distortion be much of an issue?
@@Dougarrowhead For a 550 HP iron block engine with standard rings, it is not a problem. If you were going for more power, etc... then it should be done with a deck plate, etc...
@@TotalSeal seems like most machine shops I have dealt with skip steps only because it is easier for them. I'm a perfectionist and it drives me nuts that they didn't use a torque plate. When everything is complete I will feel like it isn't as correct as it could have been and could be just a little bit better.
@@Dougarrowhead We can sympathize with you on that!
I hope all the arm chair machinist noticed that they didn't have to get the block warm to accurately hone to within a couple tenths of a thousanth. I get tired of hearing how just torque plating with gaskets isn't enough. Sorry had to vent it was a long hot days at the shop
Understood!
would have been good if Greg could have talk some why was greg there you wouldnt let him talk
Would've been two thumbs up if the clown 🤡 talking to Greg Would've listened and not spoke over him 🙄 because of Greg it still gets a 👍
Yeah he has to learn to pipe down.
But torque plate only simulates COLD engine. When hot, cylinders would be not perfectly round anyway.
Hot honing is the next level up from this process.
@@TotalSeal Ok. Interesting. Never heard about hot honing. But it's logical.
I wish Lake would not talk over people. So we could hear from the experts.
He’s the one who taught Greg the new process with the deeper Rvk.
@Total Seal Piston Rings When I said expert I was in no way trying to disparage Lake. I know he is a very smart and knowledgeable man, you can tell that by listening to him. I should have said let the other guy. It's just very hard to watch when one person keeps talking over someone. Let the man finish a sentence is all I'm saying.
@@TotalSeal see comments below
@@Mdc869 Understood. Lake gets a little excited sometimes. We will try to cut back on his morning caffeine, LOL.
@@TotalSeal 10 4 I have watched all his videos. He is a great source of information, I love learning about how the pros do stuff. No doubt he is a pro.
Tone it down a little and let Greg talk.... Anytime you have someone like this trying to describe his theory on machining a bore it's time to just be quiet and let him do his thing. Pretty much ruined this one.....
Never happen. I can watch one or two videos a year... Just enough to remind myself why I don't watch. Besides not picking up any significant knowledge.
great video but the total seal guy needs to lay off the caffeine and let his experts do the talking. he talks to much over the top of the person we really want to hear from
That guy on the right is annoying as hell!