Hearth guard were dark ages elite warriors, the term appears in Beowulf and The Battle of Maldon. That's probably where the hearth kin reference comes from. That and dwarves are famous Smith's and there's always a hearth in a forge.
Absolutely adore the sculpts. And I really like the rules for equipment guy and knuckle guy. The rest of it I’m pretty bummed out by. I was really hoping it wouldn’t be another paper-thin, 10 model, 7w team. Rock and Stone, friends!! Enjoy your hauls. Imma sit this one out.
Proximate Firepower at the beginning of the turn, use The Ancestors Are Watching on an engaged Hearthkin, use both AP to Fall Back, then shoot for free thanks to Ancestors with improved ballistic skill. It's 2 CP to do it, but against Legionaries or Intercessors if for whatever reason you survived a melee turn against them then this could mean a guaranteed dead marine, not counting grudge tokens.
@puenboy1 yeah after doing some of the math I realized that the hard way lol. I made a big comment after crunching some numbers over on glass half dead's video about it
I could be wrong but i see this team struggling to get over a 45% wr. I was hoping it would be 9 operatives hitting on 3s with a 4+ save and 3 circles of movement. Basically be an aldari style team that trades bonus movement for extra tanky traits. Right now they have less wounds the aldari which feels like a bad joke. Hitting on 4s is also just confusing, kaserkin have elite poins to make up for that and their still not great. Maybe im wrong and grudge tokens will carry a lot of weight but i have my doubts.
In my practice games they done really well due to Grudge tokens and Attack Order. +1 to hit at red is good too and with a +3 save they shrug off a lot of shooting attacks. I think they'll be in the okay 50% range. They're really good when played right
You are correct, sir. This team should have never made it through basic quality control. Someone should have looked at Dwarves with less Wounds than Elves and regular Humans and slapped the lead designer with a fish.
For the record, a 4+ shot with elite points is leagues better than a 3+ shot. A kasrkin's hotshot lasgun is better than an intercessor's 3+ shot with ceasless, even. The only drawback is that you don't have enough elite points to use on every single shot, but the fact that you apply elite points *after rolling* means that you don't need to use them on every shot. I will continue my one-man crusade until the KT community has internalized bayesian statistics.
@@burp114 Sure, you can dice-fix a 4+ BS with good fixing mechanics. Sisters and T'au were so good at this they had to be nerfed. Kasrkin had to be buffed. Hearthkyn are going to need some serious help. The other elephant in the room is that a 3+ Save does nothing in melee. Hearthkyn Warriors die like T'au in melee. The shame of it! On top of that, 7W is a much worse melee and shooting damage breakpoint than 8W. 2/3 and 3/4 weapons are much worse for a 7W model. The only saving grace is Kyn just don't care about the Injured debuffs between already being at the MV floor and probably auto-picking Stabilizers for everyone.
im hyped for the team, looks like a team that will be hard to learn but satisfying to run once mastered... its just a shame that its basically not available anywhere :(
The odd mass of equipment choices is for 40K compatibility. I roll a LOT of 1’s, so for me the Ion Blaster isn’t an automatic choice. Against an elite team sure, but bolter seems better against numerous teams where you can’t rely on the enemies inflicting grudges on themselves.
I feel like whoever wrote the Gear options for the Theyn forgot the limits. I understand him having the options for both gun and pistol variants IF it was like everyone else where you either get the two handed gun OR a pistol and melee. but they're allowing him to take but the two handed gun and the melee? weird.
The tax op isn’t that easy it’s only the time each turning point you gain a point so in 3 turning points you need to kill something with a grudge token and if it’s a cagey tp2 and 2 you could struggle to kil things with grudge tokens
I am interested in getting into Kill Team. When I read whats the content of the box. There are the figures...so where do I find the values and discriptions you show in the video if they aren't in the box.
@@CanYouRollaCrit So that is what? I am not familiar with Warhammer, well beside the PC games of Dawn of war. I thought that when you buy figures they come with the rules for them. I mean not the basic rules. A friend of mine bought the starter set so he has the core rules but from what I understood this guys shouldn't be in that book?' Kinda confusing to me.
There's definitely a specific use case to it. It'll most likely happen against guys like the thug or subductors who have good survivability in combat but mediocre damage. Pretty much a counter bruiser
Would The Ancestors Are Watching allow the Rail Rifle to be shot for free? The entry on free actions says you don't subtract any additional ap while performing them.
How many bloody tokens do these little bastards need? I've been excited for this team and can't wait to see a tactics video/guide for them. I've had 1 game using Salvagers but as a Blooded main they were very different for me and i had a major defeat. Any advice on how to run this team?
@@CanYouRollaCrit Thanks bro :) What tac ops would you recommend? I looked up the old tac ops guide you did with the rating out of 5 (which had served very well thank you again :) ) but since crit ops its abit outdated
Interesting! Good thing I managed to pre-preorder the box set at the regional WH. Sounds like I'll need magnets or more bodies for those gunners though. Also, if you take three gunners, and ignoring bog standard warriors, you still need to lose two specialists... Hmm...
@@CanYouRollaCrit Yeah, that armor is good. What are Sisters armor/wounds? Same, right? Squats are slower. I just feel they should be tougher than Sisters.
@@shockerck4465 Sisters have 8W and 3+ Sv and 3+ BS. Scions have 8W and 4+ Sv and 3+ BS, but they get Orders (including the one for a Free Mission Action for pseudo APL3) and then get 4 good Gunners along with an infinite range double-comms.
I can see that a few operatives are really pushed. Mostly the comms, lokatar, and luggar. Just a comms is good, didn’t need extra stuff. lokatar didn’t need both abilities. And the luggar would have been great with just 5 extra EP didn’t need the extra ability, but overall a cool interesting team. And balanced with the 4” movement.
They need those abilities - badly. They are Move 4", APL2, and 7 Wounds. Without those gimmick specialists these guys are Bad Compendium Tempestus Scions (Move 6", APL2, 8 Wounds, 3+ BS and 4+ Sv vs. 4+ BS and 3+ Sv). Votann get a Grudge mechanic where Scions can perform Free Action mission actions every turn, Take Aim, and can double-comms anywhere on the battlefield. Oh, and Scions get _real_ Plasma guns/pistols too. Seriously, this Kill Team is another Kasrkin-style disaster where someone got too caught up in the pet BS-compensation mechanics and made bad balance assessments.
Pretty tough to justify running 4" move teams, even if one of them gets a 12" with fly lol. Gonna have to be a pass from me based on that alone, despite how fun grudges sound.
There's no #salvaging this Kill Team. No, seriously, this here is the textbook example of why GW has no business SELLING rulebooks to these teams anymore. They print books even after they already know they are dysfunctional and will require massive adjustments post-release. Just move to free digital rules like a civilized miniatures company. Then we won't have such ugly debacles.
@@CanYouRollaCrit We'll see how this plays out compared to the "Exceedingly Powerful" and "Too Good," assessments for Exaction Squad last time. ;) 7W, 4" Move, and 4+ shooting on a 10-model team. Friends don't let friends play 71 Wound Kill Teams.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video once again, thank you! Gotta say though, I think you mispronounced Hearthkyn every single time, or… I just don’t know how it’s pronounced.
Thanks! Yeah...I gave up on that lol. I think I did 10 different pronunciations 😅🤣
@@CanYouRollaCrit It should be "Haarth-kin", I think. That, or "Herth-kin"
@@Axelhackson Yeah, harf-kin. Like half but with an R.
Hearth guard were dark ages elite warriors, the term appears in Beowulf and The Battle of Maldon. That's probably where the hearth kin reference comes from. That and dwarves are famous Smith's and there's always a hearth in a forge.
@@bargeryfamily The original Squats had Hearthguard as Elites, this is a heavy-handed carry on from that :]
Absolutely adore the sculpts.
And I really like the rules for equipment guy and knuckle guy.
The rest of it I’m pretty bummed out by. I was really hoping it wouldn’t be another paper-thin, 10 model, 7w team.
Rock and Stone, friends!! Enjoy your hauls. Imma sit this one out.
The 3+ save really helps them a lot from what I've found in practice
Proximate Firepower at the beginning of the turn, use The Ancestors Are Watching on an engaged Hearthkin, use both AP to Fall Back, then shoot for free thanks to Ancestors with improved ballistic skill. It's 2 CP to do it, but against Legionaries or Intercessors if for whatever reason you survived a melee turn against them then this could mean a guaranteed dead marine, not counting grudge tokens.
I don’t think you are gonna survive being charged, even against fists
@puenboy1 yeah after doing some of the math I realized that the hard way lol. I made a big comment after crunching some numbers over on glass half dead's video about it
It's good if someone charge-blocked you for sure!
@@puenboy1 Yeah, against Intercessors, it seems very very unlikely you'd survive even if you were the one charging.
Great thanks I wanted to see the rules as the box sold out by 10:04 in the UK :/
Also for the record it's pronounced Harthkin salvagers haha
The production issues are mad
I think I pronounced it differently 10 different times :D
I could be wrong but i see this team struggling to get over a 45% wr. I was hoping it would be 9 operatives hitting on 3s with a 4+ save and 3 circles of movement. Basically be an aldari style team that trades bonus movement for extra tanky traits. Right now they have less wounds the aldari which feels like a bad joke.
Hitting on 4s is also just confusing, kaserkin have elite poins to make up for that and their still not great. Maybe im wrong and grudge tokens will carry a lot of weight but i have my doubts.
In my practice games they done really well due to Grudge tokens and Attack Order. +1 to hit at red is good too and with a +3 save they shrug off a lot of shooting attacks. I think they'll be in the okay 50% range. They're really good when played right
You are correct, sir. This team should have never made it through basic quality control. Someone should have looked at Dwarves with less Wounds than Elves and regular Humans and slapped the lead designer with a fish.
@CanYouRollaCrit I hope your right! At least we know they won't be overpowered.
For the record, a 4+ shot with elite points is leagues better than a 3+ shot. A kasrkin's hotshot lasgun is better than an intercessor's 3+ shot with ceasless, even. The only drawback is that you don't have enough elite points to use on every single shot, but the fact that you apply elite points *after rolling* means that you don't need to use them on every shot.
I will continue my one-man crusade until the KT community has internalized bayesian statistics.
@@burp114 Sure, you can dice-fix a 4+ BS with good fixing mechanics. Sisters and T'au were so good at this they had to be nerfed. Kasrkin had to be buffed. Hearthkyn are going to need some serious help.
The other elephant in the room is that a 3+ Save does nothing in melee. Hearthkyn Warriors die like T'au in melee. The shame of it!
On top of that, 7W is a much worse melee and shooting damage breakpoint than 8W. 2/3 and 3/4 weapons are much worse for a 7W model. The only saving grace is Kyn just don't care about the Injured debuffs between already being at the MV floor and probably auto-picking Stabilizers for everyone.
I’m a lot more enthused now I’ve seen what they do. The jump pack guy particularly looks fun.
That's great to hear! Yeah he's great for Tac Op scoring and hunting down lone operatives
im hyped for the team, looks like a team that will be hard to learn but satisfying to run once mastered... its just a shame that its basically not available anywhere :(
Yeah, once mastered they're really good imo
Yeah...supply has been horrible ):
The odd mass of equipment choices is for 40K compatibility. I roll a LOT of 1’s, so for me the Ion Blaster isn’t an automatic choice. Against an elite team sure, but bolter seems better against numerous teams where you can’t rely on the enemies inflicting grudges on themselves.
With attack order and your grudge ploy, the ions are just too good. I'd only take bolters vs teams with invuns
I love the look of them but would love to see more narrative content if possible
I feel like whoever wrote the Gear options for the Theyn forgot the limits. I understand him having the options for both gun and pistol variants IF it was like everyone else where you either get the two handed gun OR a pistol and melee. but they're allowing him to take but the two handed gun and the melee? weird.
Yeah especially as the guns are just straight up better than their pistol versions. Very confusing
@@CanYouRollaCrit I wonder if it will get errata'd In a data slate
Unlikely, just a weird loadout
Great video - thank you!
No worries, glad you liked it (:
My lads finally here beautiful
Yup, they're really great!
you shouldnt be able to score settle grudge in a insgle turns. it specifies the first time each turn
Ah, my mistake!
7 Wounds is a joke imo. they can have all the special rules in the world. Be unlucky and lose hard.
Kinda, it makes them way more vulnerable to CC
@@CanYouRollaCrit Imagine being a Dwarf that's objectively worse at taking a punch to the face than an Elf. The Ancestors wept.
Maybe its better because of their abillities? But I only know this team from this video :D
The tax op isn’t that easy it’s only the time each turning point you gain a point so in 3 turning points you need to kill something with a grudge token and if it’s a cagey tp2 and 2 you could struggle to kil things with grudge tokens
I think it's still really good overall, even if it is basically a 3TP tac op to max
I am interested in getting into Kill Team.
When I read whats the content of the box. There are the figures...so where do I find the values and discriptions you show in the video if they aren't in the box.
They come in the rule book they were originally released with (:
@@CanYouRollaCrit So that is what? I am not familiar with Warhammer, well beside the PC games of Dawn of war.
I thought that when you buy figures they come with the rules for them. I mean not the basic rules. A friend of mine bought the starter set so he has the core rules but from what I understood this guys shouldn't be in that book?'
Kinda confusing to me.
Argument for the fist guy: with the free fight, you can charge, fight, then knock back. Whilst only moderately useful, it's maximally cool.
Your 7 wound fist guy would need to survive the fight to get his free knockback
There's definitely a specific use case to it. It'll most likely happen against guys like the thug or subductors who have good survivability in combat but mediocre damage. Pretty much a counter bruiser
I can imagine I'm Ryu at the same time 🥲
@puenboy1 notably you could smash him first and then fight him. You could even force him in-between two of your guys so you get combat support.
Plasma Pistol > Ion blaster on Theyn? If the Plasma hit on 3s I'd say no contest. But it hitting on 4s seems rough.
I prefer the Plasma but I can see uses for the Ion
Would The Ancestors Are Watching allow the Rail Rifle to be shot for free? The entry on free actions says you don't subtract any additional ap while performing them.
I'm not entirely sure but so far I'm saying yes
You mentioned bringing all 3 gunners. but what specialists are staying on the bench for that?
Usually the fist guy and maybe medic
You need medic against shooting teams and fist guy against melee teams)
How many bloody tokens do these little bastards need?
I've been excited for this team and can't wait to see a tactics video/guide for them.
I've had 1 game using Salvagers but as a Blooded main they were very different for me and i had a major defeat.
Any advice on how to run this team?
I just like playing them defensively, focusing on just tieing on primaries but winning via tac ops
@@CanYouRollaCrit Thanks bro :)
What tac ops would you recommend?
I looked up the old tac ops guide you did with the rating out of 5 (which had served very well thank you again :) ) but since crit ops its abit outdated
They look fun
They oddly are! They've grown on me a lot
I was kind of sceptic to this kill team but after your review I might get one team for myself
That's great to hear! They're really good but have to be played quite defensively
This team is so dwarfy!!! I need this team!! 😢
They are very dwarfy! It's a nice surprise aha
Having less Wounds than the knife-ears and unaugmented humans (Aeldari, Druhkari, Scions, Kasrkin, Sisters of Battle) is definitely un-Dwarf.
@@martylund8411 at least they should be 9wounds base.. 10 for the Theyn.
Is this one of those teams you'll need two boxes to make work?
Yeah, to an extent. You basically need 1.5 boxes
@@CanYouRollaCrit Thanks for the reply! I hope a normal box will do for this though. The upside of just dealing with upgrade spures.
they saunds like elite teams slayers
They do shoot elite teams to death haha
Just how many different tokens do you need for these teams??
A lot if you're using the equipment and utility grenades 🤣
Interesting! Good thing I managed to pre-preorder the box set at the regional WH. Sounds like I'll need magnets or more bodies for those gunners though. Also, if you take three gunners, and ignoring bog standard warriors, you still need to lose two specialists... Hmm...
Magnets work but some of the arms...go on weird due to the bodies
7 wounds? I see 8 wounds coming in the future for this team.
Nah. I feel/think they were originally 8 wounds with a +4 save. If they go to 8 wounds then they'd need to go down to a +4 save again
They are already slow and inaccurate, for that they ought to be sturdier than elves at the very least. Ugh.
@@CanYouRollaCrit Yeah, that armor is good. What are Sisters armor/wounds? Same, right?
Squats are slower. I just feel they should be tougher than Sisters.
@@shockerck4465 Sisters have 8W and 3+ Sv and 3+ BS. Scions have 8W and 4+ Sv and 3+ BS, but they get Orders (including the one for a Free Mission Action for pseudo APL3) and then get 4 good Gunners along with an infinite range double-comms.
What size are their bases?
28mm
it is posibble to make all specialist fron one box? or second box is needed?
You'll need a second box imo but because you want 3 gunners too
I can see that a few operatives are really pushed. Mostly the comms, lokatar, and luggar. Just a comms is good, didn’t need extra stuff. lokatar didn’t need both abilities. And the luggar would have been great with just 5 extra EP didn’t need the extra ability, but overall a cool interesting team. And balanced with the 4” movement.
They need those abilities - badly. They are Move 4", APL2, and 7 Wounds. Without those gimmick specialists these guys are Bad Compendium Tempestus Scions (Move 6", APL2, 8 Wounds, 3+ BS and 4+ Sv vs. 4+ BS and 3+ Sv).
Votann get a Grudge mechanic where Scions can perform Free Action mission actions every turn, Take Aim, and can double-comms anywhere on the battlefield. Oh, and Scions get _real_ Plasma guns/pistols too.
Seriously, this Kill Team is another Kasrkin-style disaster where someone got too caught up in the pet BS-compensation mechanics and made bad balance assessments.
@@martylund8411 fair enough I see your point :)
They are but it makes the KT quite the shooting machine when they gwt setup right. Although a lot of the operatives are too wordy
Im sure someone said it but its HEARTH-KYN was so hard to follow when i heard it 😅 i do like the video though.
But Heartykin 🥺
Lol WHAT did you call them?!!!
Hearty-kin :DDDD
This Killteam actually looks pretty cool. Even with the slow movement
They are! Best way to explain it is to plan out all your moves at the start of the game for the rest of the game. It's hard but really rewarding
Pretty tough to justify running 4" move teams, even if one of them gets a 12" with fly lol. Gonna have to be a pass from me based on that alone, despite how fun grudges sound.
Once you get past the movement, they're really solid. You just have to plan moves in advance but I can understand, move 2 white is a pain aha
Its pronounced "Haarth-kin"
Heeeeryhe kine 🤔
There's no #salvaging this Kill Team.
No, seriously, this here is the textbook example of why GW has no business SELLING rulebooks to these teams anymore. They print books even after they already know they are dysfunctional and will require massive adjustments post-release. Just move to free digital rules like a civilized miniatures company. Then we won't have such ugly debacles.
Votann are pretty great? They're not horrible.
@@CanYouRollaCrit We'll see how this plays out compared to the "Exceedingly Powerful" and "Too Good," assessments for Exaction Squad last time. ;)
7W, 4" Move, and 4+ shooting on a 10-model team. Friends don't let friends play 71 Wound Kill Teams.