Gear no one wanted in the 90's is now the gear everyone wants 30 yrs later because someone used the tools they had and just made great music. Funny how we never learn the lesson to just use what we have.
Yeah the Valvestates were shit on constantly, even by guitar store employees. Like to no end. “We don’t want it in the shop” type of stuff. “Not a real Marshall, they suck, get a Roland”. I had one. Looked like this 8100. I thought it was okay.🤷🏻♂️ it’s not tube. Absolutely bizarre how it has flipped now.
I paid $140 for my 8100 head about 12 years ago. Sold with an “unknown problem”. From owning a few Valvestate combos in the 90’s I was 98% sure it likely just needed a new 12AX7. And bingo 🤣🤘🤘😎🤘
bought mine around 8 years ago for $100 working except for one speaker out which is just a broken solder joint that i havent fixed since i havent needed two 😂
I disagree. I think the character of the distortion in the 8100 is too different to just dial in with an EQ. They use drastically different clipping diodes.
I personally have always prefered VS100 because of the "Power Dimension" button, it basically quites the amp down a whole lot and thickens the sound to a ridiculous extent (even with the bass on 5 it's really bassy), what I also used to do is engage the "FX Mix" and pull it all the way up because if you have nothing plugged in the effects loop it makes the whole amp much louder for some reason (which is very handy because it negates the volume loss caused by engaging the Power Dimension thing). What you then end up with is a typical Valvestate sound but much more massive.
What also really helps the VS100 is never going over noon with treble or contour, the amp then sounds too fizzy. Boosting the crap out of mids also doesn't hurt, what helps even further is boosting the whole thing with a mid heavy OD which really gets rid of its scooped-ish character (I use a Proco RAT for this purpose and it sounds amazing).
As someone who hoardes multiple of both of these: THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!!!! There is really little to no good demos out there of those and your video does it justice. Btw try these settings on your 8100 if you plan on matching the Symbolic/Sound of Perseverance tone OD2 Gain:20 Bass:10 Mid: 4 Treble: 5-6 Contour: 7 Volume: 10 Fx loop level switch pressed in Effects: 3 Reverb: 7 Volume: 3 Took me forever to match
Been looking at the schematics for both of these since I have a VS100 in for repair/mods. They are both using basically the same components except for the clipping diodes in the VS100 on the OD2 channel. The layout is quite different, though. The VS100 has a completely transparent clean channel without the "crunch" clipping LEDs and so it has a unique path through the amp from input all the way to the tube. The VS100 also has the tube in the path of both clean and overdrive as well as the reverb mix, but the 8100 seems to only have the tube in the OD channels even before the reverb. The OD2 setting in the 8100 just seems to be a gain boost for the OD channel. The 8100 uses only 3m red LEDs to clip where the VS100 uses the same red LEDs for OD1 but uses 1n914 (1n4148) diodes for clipping on OD2. Overall the sound isn't too different. They basically do the same things but get there in different ways. The noticeable differences in sound would come from the clipping diodes in the OD2 channel for the VS100 and the power dimension EQ circuit on the line output of the VS100. The power dimension switch is just changing the speaker out between the EQ circuit on the line out and the normal preamp output. The line output always has this EQ power dimension circuit turned on where the speaker output is switchable via the Power Dimension button. VS100 is really complex with all the analog switches. I might switch out some of the M5201 analog switches to relays to see if it improves sound quality... or just add OD bypass loops to use a pedal instead of the internal OD circuits. neat.
The precursor to these, the MOSFET 100, was also a really solid amp. Probably a bit to vintage-y for you, gain capability is somewhere between an 800 and 900.
I think the MOSFETs are better, if you want make the Mosfet death metal or modern just put some overdrive, you can be creative with boosts like using RAT or the Metalzone. For combos like the Valvestate I prefer the ones made by Crate.
Looked away and didn't even noticed the amp changed. I have a VS100. It does the job. The cleans stay clean even when you crank it. The cone cry it gives my 2x12 when its cranked is impressive, especially with no power tube distortion.
I had an 8100 head with a sovtek preamp tube installed and ran it through an old marshall 4x12 cabinet with Celestine vintage 30s on top and G12h-100s on the bottom. It was awesome. A buddy bought a whole new Mesa Boogie 1/2 stack and was pissed I was getting more gain and low end out of a set up that cost me much less.
I just head-to-head compared these two in my living room, and the 8100 has a far more aggressive upper midrange that the VS100 can't dial in. The top end on the 8100 was also much less shrill and fatiguing than the VS100. I could give the highs a bit of boost on the 8100 and it was gnarly and good sounding, but I found I had to cut the highs at least a bit on the VS100 no matter what or it was tinny. The Power Dimension switch is totally useless because the VS100 is already so incredibly scooped at all times, and all it does is add even more scoop. Overall, the 8100 is very much more satisfying to play through and feels like a real big amp (and loud AF!), where the VS100 always felt like playing through a little practice amp that was trying to sound big. Also, the 8100 straight-up sounds like a super hot JCM800 and can cop respectable Slayer tones, which no one seems to ever talk about, but it's true.
I have a ton of amps and my guitar is very dark and muddy though all of them except the 8100 it sounds incredible. I think my evertune bridge really sucks the tone even though I have EMG 81's. What guitar and pickups are you running, do you use a boost? I find it really loves the TS-9 way more than all my other boosts, the metal zone even works in front of it!
@@MichaelDespairs The guitar I had just played thru it was a Schecter C7 multiscale with the stock pickups, really happy with that tone. If you check my channel, you can see a vid I did with my old white 8100 - I played an Eastwood Hummingbird with Gibson Iommi humbucker for that. No boosts or anything just straight. The other guitar I often play is a Univox Hi-Flyer with a Wylde L500. When I have used a boost, it was either a Rat or an original Expandora. I'm about to start some recording with an 8200 I've fixed up and I'm going to play around with a few different boosts to see if I can get some special mojo happening with any of them. But straight it sounds pretty sweet anyway.
I had no idea these amps were coveted, I used to use them in the mid 90's much to the ridicule of my mesa brethren. I used to buy them from second hand shops because they were cheap and did the job, I think I still have a few at my parents house
Ironically I think these amps hold their own pretty well against my Mesa Dual Rectifier. The Mesa is still better, but these amps aren't slouches by any means.
I think that’s why most people used them. If I remember correctly the MSRP was like $450 or something. It is crazy how popular they’ve become as of late!
@@TheRosswise I used to play in a band with a dude that had one, and I was using a peavey triple x. I always thought his tone was so shrill and thin, but didn’t really know anything at all about amps at the time. Now looking back, I realize it was most likely the 2 4x10s he paired this amp with
@@TaylorDanley , Once, I got a generic email stating they had no plans to bring it back. That was the only time. It came from a "North American customer advisor" from what I remember.
I caught a massive amount of shit over my 8100 in the 90s. I was a metal head in the wrong Era. I swore that the amp was tighter and hotter than the tubes of that time. It required assistance to achieve the thrash and death metal sound I later went with but you threw a death metal pedal or a metal zone in front of this with a noise gate and you had a ripper. Good to finally get my dues on this lol. Now only if I had no sold it....
I have two 8100 only due to word of mouth that these were good amps used by some famous bands in the 90's and I personally must say I am pleased with the tones I can achieve with them. I do prefer all tube amps, but these are fun to jam on too. \m/
@@TaylorDanley dude the randall rh200 is amazing, I mine with a behringer 7 band in the loop and it slays. I have the non g2 version, so I'm not sure how the g2s options sound but I'd check it out.
Picked up a VS100 combo for 200 Canada land dollars locally. I had to open it up and do some soldering on the circuit boards, but now runs like a champ. The real killer on these VS100's is poor soldering from the factory. Components on the boards would come loose so might be worth checking on yours by an amp tech. Mine still worked even though there were loose components inside.
Just to throw a spanner into the works - the best 8100 tone I've heard recently was from the Martyr pedal by Master Effects. For this particular demo, I think the VS100 displays a much richer bass response but that might be my ears :)
just picked up a used vs100 with the matching 4x12 (all I wanted was the speaker but the pawn shop insisted I buy both) and this video is super informative, thanks! great tones, this amp has suprised me so far.
I have had both an 8080 and a VS102R. Tone wise I liked - tested through the same speakers - the 8080 more than the VS102R and kept the 8080. With the VS100, the tone stack of the OD channel is after the FX loop, which was very odd and limited the use of the FX loop for me.
That 8100 sounds amazing for its age. As for the VS100H, I have one and have noticed that a lot of the used ones floating around tend to have sketchy preamp tubes. I don't know how or why an amp circuit that barely pushes the tube as a "gentle" gain stage is able to fry them, but it does happen -- possibly due to capacitor value drift. At any rate, mine came with a 12AU7 in it which pretty much negated the tube stage's gain. I tried a couple of other 12AX7/ECC83 tubes that I had floating around, and have had good results with a JJ long-plate. It also sounds great with a Tube Screamer out in front, and if you want to get really weird with it, a Guv'nor/Angry Charlie will get you into Carcass territory.
The used vs100 I bought months back seemed dull to me until I had the preamp tube changed and holy crap it really woke the amp right up and it’s a monster now. I’d still like to get an 8100 at some point just because it seems they need to be side by side. As far as the vs100 power dimension goes, I find it useful when playing at lower bedroom volumes because it helps add more feel when turned down. Very cool demo but yeah, I think the comparison might’ve been different with a new preamp tube in the vs100.
8100 sounds gnarlier,. A bit grittier and "nastier" in a way that sounds nice to me. And the power dimension button seems to just be a "make worse" button. I would probably slightly prefer the 8100 - which is what I used to own - but I don't think the difference is huge. I'd be very interested to hear the AVT series lined up against these. Those are the valvestates that people seem to REALLY hate!
@@TheRosswise How does an analog amp 'sound digital'? Personally I'd describe AVTs as sounding mushier and not nearly as aggressive as the older Valvestates. Replacing the stock speaker helped reduce the mushiness and mud. I've mostly used mine as a power amp for other gear.
I'd take either. The difference is barely noticeable. You can always tweak the 5100 if you really need to. Personally, I've never played a Marshall valvestate head, that needed an extra boost.
I found a 8080 Combo last Week with some early 90s Eminence Speaker in it for 100€. It was totally dead and a risk. But cleaning the Pots fixed it. I've added a Output jack and now it wis waiting for some "GrrrrhhhhGGHHHH" The 8080 Combo has the same Circuit as the 8100. I can't wait to blend it with my 6505 to play with the "Dark At the Flames" Sound :D
I had one the original valvestates back in 1994.when It stopped working I brought it in to a certified marshall tech and he said wasn't worth fixing and to just go buy a new marshall tube amp. I didn't know what I had till now
With as cheap as they were at the time, he may have been right depending on the severity of the damage… but I don’t think this amp has many expensive components… sounds like the tech was kind of a dick 🤷♂️
@@TheRosswise I think this is more of a hindsight kind of thing than snobbery. Solid state amps are typically trickier/more expensive to repair and the technology was still maturing at that time.
@@StandTallTx Unless the problem was a proprietary transformer, I doubt it. Caps are dirt cheap and easy to replace and that is most of the problem with solid state issues. Transformers are relatively cheap too, that is why it would have to be something proprietary to Marshall to be too expensive to replace. But the tech was Marshall certified so he could have done it for relatively cheaply. It just sounds like the guy was a tube snob.
Only difference that sticks out to me really is that the 8100 has more mids which is saying something since it is already really scooped ha. I'm sure it'd be something you could easily match with an eq in the loop though
Hey man killer video. Hope you see this but I been looking into putting a custom order for a Deviant guitars. Unfortunately there seems to be no review videos of them on youtube. Would you recommend them? I am considering putting a custom order soon. Thanks
This Is quite funny, Cuz I bought the POD Go cuz I see some of your vids, and I have that VS100, now you got my gear! Jajajaj and yeah, the Pod go in front of my vs100 sounds awesome
Where you set the contour after you said "it's a little bit weird in the midrange" is about where I keep mine. And I always leave the power dimension switch off
Yeah it’s so sensitive, I feel like 9 o clock is a good starting point and then I dial it back jusssssst a hair until you hear the fizz in the top go away. Keep in mind though too that high end is really emphasized by the v30s in my mesa
The valvestate is a great amp, but it becomes better when you remove the medium gain 12AX7 and put in a jj 12AX7 high gain, it then sounds like a TSL100, great amp, I'll never get rid of mine...m
Through my studio headphones the VS100 sounded more scooped and muddier with more bass compared to the 8100 in this comparison, i felt i liked the 8100 quite a bit better but maybe the VS100 could be tweaked to sound closer, who knows. I dont think the 8100 is expensive over here in Sweden, as i mentioned in the earlier video i recently saw on for what compares to about 100 dollars. New Marshalls also seems to be crazy expensive in the USA compared to here in Europe, its like double the price for some reason.
@@TheRosswise Maybe but that is some crazy taxes in that case. For example i just looked up the price of a Marshall JVM410H head a Thomann and it costs 1299 Euros at Sweetwater the same amp costs 3199 US Dollars and the Euro and Dollar is worth very close to the same.
@@Stefan- Well it is just a guess. I am sure import taxes on the US end, VAT on the EU end, and shipping across the ocean add a lot to the cost. Add in currency conversions, that adds too. And maybe Marshall just charges more in the US because they can.
@@TheRosswise The Thomann price is including VAT (and shipping to Sweden even), i dont know if VAT is included in the Sweetwater price, to my understanding it is often not included in the US while its always included here in Sweden unless the prices are ment for other companies which can be the case in certain cases, but you will never see prices without VAT in a normal store. Again, the currency conversion doesnt add much since they are almost the same, 1299 Euros is 1334 US Dollars, so its 1334 USD at Thomann compared to 3199 USD at Sweetwater. I dont know why but it is crazy.
That’s awesome, I’d scoop one up because they go for $500+ here in the states! Yes they probably could be dialed to be a bit closer, I think I got the vs100 there in the demo portion, but like I said there is that caveat of my 8100 being totally serviced, so that’s a big factor also
I've never had t/rear if t/head open. (And don't plan too!) I leave that up to more experienced folks then myself! But just because - what is the tube (valve) inside the amp?
Taylor I have had the 8080v twin speaker combo ,just had it repaired, the chorus and reverb have been repaired, but the gain is shit. What's the component which has failed. So I have now bought a second hand jcm2000 tsl 60, have you a review on this amp. Also bought a cheap MG30fx for practice, have you a review on the MG30? 2022 MODEL
Taylor, what is your favorite settings on the od2 channel on the vs100? I'm trying to dial it in and all the options with the buttons and everything are becoming too much as I try. It becomes mush and I have a hard time. Looking for your favorite metal tone. Thank you
Almost a two years ago I've got 8100 for EUR 60. Would say it is a bit overpowered for me, but I couldn't stand the price... It was in working condition except the reverb (broken wire) and small, but pretty deep fire mark on top. So I did some work - build new case, put on new vinyl (brown, like on acoustic combos), some accents in details. Now I'm working on matching design speaker cabinet to have a set. A custom build for myself.
12Ax7 preamp tubes really don’t need to be replaced like power amp tubes. I have a VS265R combo that I bought new in 96. Two years back I wondered about swapping out the tube and it made zero difference in tone.
I bought a 8080 combo in 92 and traded(yup trade for trade) it in 95 with a kid who had a plexi superbass head and cab that he couldn't use in his parents apartment. A year after because my ass was broke and I couldn't afford new tubes and that thing need an inspection I ended up trading that head at a music store for a brand new vs 100 and 50 bucks. You do so much stupid shit when you're 21. Sold the vs in 2004 but still got that cab with original 70s Greenbacks and it sounds phenomenal.
That’s the truth! I just feel lucky that I was able to trade my way back to getting a triple x back in the stable. I sold my first one when I was younger and regretted it!
In 1995 I bought an 8100 half stack, and the next year the other guitarist in my band bought a VS100 half stack. The differences when you were switching back and forth were very familiar. I always liked his tone better, but really he was just a better player than me.
Wow, the Deviant guitar webpage needs too be upgraded somehow! I couldn't even get from the 'hompage' to where you just might be able to purchase one! WASSUP?? Is your link bad, or what?!?
I had a valvestate combo back when they first came out and ended up using it as a preamp into a bigger tube amp and it wasn’t bad with an overdrive in front of it. I feel like I want another one now lol. What brand/model is that guitar? That thing is insane!
i have a 8100, but i loved the AVT150 when i was younger, im trying to get one to shoot them out. i got my 8100 out of the trash lol! getting it serviced now because the pots are super scratchy.
Based off the first little track, while I think the 8100 is overall “better sounding” amp (I’d reach for that one first to record main tracks) That said, the VS100 has a more Distinct, 90s death metal sound that’s much more Unique, and I’d probably go for that over the 8100, seeing as it wouldn’t be my main amp
That's because of his taste in gain and the condenser mic. With a sm57 on the grill this has much more of an overdriven alternative rock sound. That's why I got mine originally, it sounds completely different depending on how you mic it. I now use mine into a loadbox and I recently used it on a pop punk record and a djent record, go figure.
Oh okay, this is the amp i use at my local studio to rehears with my Doom metal band. I had no clue that the 8100 was used by Chuck ò.ò I guess the one i use in the studio is the VS100, i gotta check it out. It's pretty neat, very trebley, but i cut off all the treble. It's alright to just rehears, nothing fancy, but you have to get used to equalize it and understand how it works, especially on the first overdrive channel, the low gain one. If you play around with the knobs you'll get pretty sick tones. ps: i always thought the VS100 was crap to be honest, a crappy made in Indonesia low range amplifier, until i played enough with it putting my fuzz into the OD 1 channel.
I'm the proud owner of a 78 JMP Master Lead Mk2 combo, and love it, but there are some awesome solid state amps out there, so I'm wanting options, I'm in the process of fixing an acetone ace guts sa45, and I'm just about to be gifted a vs100, so thanks for this video dude🤟
Having owned a VS100 since its release, I can say that it is an absolute keeper as long as you work to its strengths and weaknesses. Its cleans are superb and it takes pedals really well. If you run something like a Sansamp GT-2 into it, it sounds great and much better than the preamp's lacklustre inbuilt OD channels.
Most of these were sold as 1x12" combos, not heads. The 8080 came with a good Celestion speaker, in contrast with VS100 and newer Valvestate combos, which came with some cheapo speakers. That's propably where the love towards earlier Valvestates come. In reality, the newer ones are great too, and very similar sounding, but of course the 8100/8080 is the most classic one.
I owned quite a few Marshalls being a huge fan of the original Valvestate lineup, ( i still own an 8080 two 8040, and a 8020. also recently sold my 8010 Which I regret horribly) if I had to pick one of them without having time to play and test them fully, My choice would be on the 8100, i had a few of the "newer" Valvestate and to me, they have more in common with China Junk amps than with the original V8... lineup.
guys I have a question, I just bought a valvestate vs100 and all my life ive only had solid state amps. but the vs100 has a preamp tube what exactly does that do?
Definitely a big difference in mid-range voicing between the two. I played through a VS100 full stack for a few years when I was a young stringer. I don't remember it being that forward in the mids. But I was using the matching VS 4x12 cabs which did not have V30's like your Boogie OS. V30's can be pretty beakey and forward in the mids. I wonder if the VS100 would prefer a cab loaded with something like a G12H30.
The VS100 is useable for sure and comparable, but the 8100 has much better clean/crunch sounds, and while the distorted sounds don't differ much getting the tone you want seems much easier to do on the 8100.
I had VS100H From 1992 i quess🧐 it was my second amphead ever, (first one was Randall Rg100g2, also Awesome amp) and it was a perfect thrashmetal machine🎸🔥🤟
Only difference i really hear are the 8100 has more mids. Not listening with headphones tho. I used to own one of these. I think it was the vs100. If it was the 8100 i obviously didnt know what i had at the time.
AWESOME ! Thanks a lot for your video @Taylor Danley. My old 8100 crashed few month ago and its apparently very expensive to repair (or simply ask for a quote in order to be repared) , and I got an opportunity to grab a SV100 but not knowing what could ne the differences. And you did it !!! By the way, I enjoyed listen to you playing so well your riffs, you made my day.
8100 sounds more focused/punchy, just a better overdrive character. You seemed to enjoy playing it more as well. Side note: some of your riffing has super Hate Eternal vibes and I'm digging that!
Studio monitors tell me the 8100 sounds much better in the mid range than the VS. The VS sounds really thin, lacks midrange and that definition on the "punch" of the guitar. I think in a full mix the 8100 is going to give you a better tone.
Still would've been cool to hear those great Death riffs through a Mark 2c++ . Chuck said he liked the tightness of the Valvestate amps but the Mark Amps were also very tight but sounded better imo
Thanks for the demo man!! You made up my mind on buying the VS100! I'm picking it up tomorrow and I'm stoked!! Great demo for sure!! Btw what tuning are you in? Sounds wicked!
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I have the marshall vs100. Love it. I picked a mxr carbon delay for slapback. Used a multiefgects with a delay. That got me into it.
Gear no one wanted in the 90's is now the gear everyone wants 30 yrs later because someone used the tools they had and just made great music. Funny how we never learn the lesson to just use what we have.
Yeah the Valvestates were shit on constantly, even by guitar store employees. Like to no end. “We don’t want it in the shop” type of stuff. “Not a real Marshall, they suck, get a Roland”. I had one. Looked like this 8100. I thought it was okay.🤷🏻♂️ it’s not tube.
Absolutely bizarre how it has flipped now.
And it’ll happen again. How much you wanna bet single owner Spider V half stacks are gonna go for 2 grand in 15 years?
@@bigwomp932 I'm not taking that bet!
Original VS100 owner here, these were expensive in 96, at $650.
With inflation, that’s nearly $1300 today 2024
About to pick one up today for death metal. How do you find them?
I paid $140 for my 8100 head about 12 years ago. Sold with an “unknown problem”. From owning a few Valvestate combos in the 90’s I was 98% sure it likely just needed a new 12AX7. And bingo 🤣🤘🤘😎🤘
🥳💪💪💪
yeah Nowadays you can't even get an 8010 at that price, your 8100, if you have the cabinet, is worth what? 1200 plus dollhairs.
@@patprop74saw just a 8100 head for as high as $1300
Scored an 8100 head for just 80€ in 2018 with a bunch of noisy potentiometers, also had to reattach one of the reverb springs
bought mine around 8 years ago for $100 working except for one speaker out which is just a broken solder joint that i havent fixed since i havent needed two 😂
I think when two amp are so similar like this, all it really takes is a graphic EQ in the loop to make em sound identical.
You're probably right!
I disagree. I think the character of the distortion in the 8100 is too different to just dial in with an EQ. They use drastically different clipping diodes.
I personally have always prefered VS100 because of the "Power Dimension" button, it basically quites the amp down a whole lot and thickens the sound to a ridiculous extent (even with the bass on 5 it's really bassy), what I also used to do is engage the "FX Mix" and pull it all the way up because if you have nothing plugged in the effects loop it makes the whole amp much louder for some reason (which is very handy because it negates the volume loss caused by engaging the Power Dimension thing). What you then end up with is a typical Valvestate sound but much more massive.
What also really helps the VS100 is never going over noon with treble or contour, the amp then sounds too fizzy. Boosting the crap out of mids also doesn't hurt, what helps even further is boosting the whole thing with a mid heavy OD which really gets rid of its scooped-ish character (I use a Proco RAT for this purpose and it sounds amazing).
As someone who hoardes multiple of both of these: THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!!!!
There is really little to no good demos out there of those and your video does it justice.
Btw try these settings on your 8100 if you plan on matching the Symbolic/Sound of Perseverance tone
OD2
Gain:20
Bass:10
Mid: 4
Treble: 5-6
Contour: 7
Volume: 10
Fx loop level switch pressed in
Effects: 3
Reverb: 7
Volume: 3
Took me forever to match
Thanks dude! I mean enough of you wanted to see it, so I’m happy to oblige when I’m able to!
Hoarding multiples of each! HORNS UP
Been looking at the schematics for both of these since I have a VS100 in for repair/mods. They are both using basically the same components except for the clipping diodes in the VS100 on the OD2 channel. The layout is quite different, though. The VS100 has a completely transparent clean channel without the "crunch" clipping LEDs and so it has a unique path through the amp from input all the way to the tube. The VS100 also has the tube in the path of both clean and overdrive as well as the reverb mix, but the 8100 seems to only have the tube in the OD channels even before the reverb. The OD2 setting in the 8100 just seems to be a gain boost for the OD channel. The 8100 uses only 3m red LEDs to clip where the VS100 uses the same red LEDs for OD1 but uses 1n914 (1n4148) diodes for clipping on OD2. Overall the sound isn't too different. They basically do the same things but get there in different ways. The noticeable differences in sound would come from the clipping diodes in the OD2 channel for the VS100 and the power dimension EQ circuit on the line output of the VS100. The power dimension switch is just changing the speaker out between the EQ circuit on the line out and the normal preamp output. The line output always has this EQ power dimension circuit turned on where the speaker output is switchable via the Power Dimension button.
VS100 is really complex with all the analog switches. I might switch out some of the M5201 analog switches to relays to see if it improves sound quality... or just add OD bypass loops to use a pedal instead of the internal OD circuits. neat.
Very helpfull 10100rsn. Helped to make my decision. TY
The precursor to these, the MOSFET 100, was also a really solid amp. Probably a bit to vintage-y for you, gain capability is somewhere between an 800 and 900.
I think the MOSFETs are better, if you want make the Mosfet death metal or modern just put some overdrive, you can be creative with boosts like using RAT or the Metalzone. For combos like the Valvestate I prefer the ones made by Crate.
I love the MOSFET Lead 100 head!
Looked away and didn't even noticed the amp changed. I have a VS100. It does the job. The cleans stay clean even when you crank it. The cone cry it gives my 2x12 when its cranked is impressive, especially with no power tube distortion.
I had an 8100 head with a sovtek preamp tube installed and ran it through an old marshall 4x12 cabinet with Celestine vintage 30s on top and G12h-100s on the bottom. It was awesome. A buddy bought a whole new Mesa Boogie 1/2 stack and was pissed I was getting more gain and low end out of a set up that cost me much less.
I just head-to-head compared these two in my living room, and the 8100 has a far more aggressive upper midrange that the VS100 can't dial in. The top end on the 8100 was also much less shrill and fatiguing than the VS100. I could give the highs a bit of boost on the 8100 and it was gnarly and good sounding, but I found I had to cut the highs at least a bit on the VS100 no matter what or it was tinny. The Power Dimension switch is totally useless because the VS100 is already so incredibly scooped at all times, and all it does is add even more scoop. Overall, the 8100 is very much more satisfying to play through and feels like a real big amp (and loud AF!), where the VS100 always felt like playing through a little practice amp that was trying to sound big. Also, the 8100 straight-up sounds like a super hot JCM800 and can cop respectable Slayer tones, which no one seems to ever talk about, but it's true.
I have a ton of amps and my guitar is very dark and muddy though all of them except the 8100 it sounds incredible. I think my evertune bridge really sucks the tone even though I have EMG 81's. What guitar and pickups are you running, do you use a boost? I find it really loves the TS-9 way more than all my other boosts, the metal zone even works in front of it!
@@MichaelDespairs The guitar I had just played thru it was a Schecter C7 multiscale with the stock pickups, really happy with that tone. If you check my channel, you can see a vid I did with my old white 8100 - I played an Eastwood Hummingbird with Gibson Iommi humbucker for that. No boosts or anything just straight. The other guitar I often play is a Univox Hi-Flyer with a Wylde L500. When I have used a boost, it was either a Rat or an original Expandora. I'm about to start some recording with an 8200 I've fixed up and I'm going to play around with a few different boosts to see if I can get some special mojo happening with any of them. But straight it sounds pretty sweet anyway.
Now we need a proper test of an AVT100 head to these two so the entire range is repped.
I had no idea these amps were coveted, I used to use them in the mid 90's much to the ridicule of my mesa brethren. I used to buy them from second hand shops because they were cheap and did the job, I think I still have a few at my parents house
Ironically I think these amps hold their own pretty well against my Mesa Dual Rectifier. The Mesa is still better, but these amps aren't slouches by any means.
I think that’s why most people used them. If I remember correctly the MSRP was like $450 or something. It is crazy how popular they’ve become as of late!
@@TheRosswise I used to play in a band with a dude that had one, and I was using a peavey triple x. I always thought his tone was so shrill and thin, but didn’t really know anything at all about amps at the time. Now looking back, I realize it was most likely the 2 4x10s he paired this amp with
@@TaylorDanley Speakers make a HELL of a difference. And I think we all fall victim to the 'scoop out all the mids' thing at some point.
You should also compare them to the Master Effects Martyr pedal! Maybe run it into the SD Powerstage. It would be the ultimate Valvestate shootout!
I think he's demo'd that pedal before. Or else I'm confusing him with someone else.
@@CFChristian he might have but I can't find it right now. Even still it'd be great to hear all three side by side
I’ll put it on my radar, thanks for the suggestion!
I have one and its amazing. Bought it bcs the 8100 cant really handle roadlife and you have the 8100 sound with every backline they can provide
@@russiangoose7053 My bad, it was Muff. Or Fluff. Whatever his name is, I don't care for his playing.
I've personally emailed Marshall probably 10 times over the last 10 years asking them to bring one of these back.
That's amazing. Any response?
@@TaylorDanley , Once, I got a generic email stating they had no plans to bring it back. That was the only time. It came from a "North American customer advisor" from what I remember.
Auditory makes a good 8100 amp sim for anyone looking. Nice video as always Taylor 👍
Thanks dude! 🙌
I caught a massive amount of shit over my 8100 in the 90s. I was a metal head in the wrong Era. I swore that the amp was tighter and hotter than the tubes of that time. It required assistance to achieve the thrash and death metal sound I later went with but you threw a death metal pedal or a metal zone in front of this with a noise gate and you had a ripper. Good to finally get my dues on this lol. Now only if I had no sold it....
I like my VS100, it's a tight amp compared to my other tube heads.
I have two 8100 only due to word of mouth that these were good amps used by some famous bands in the 90's and I personally must say I am pleased with the tones I can achieve with them. I do prefer all tube amps, but these are fun to jam on too. \m/
I would love to see more Randall stuff on here. There's a lot of affordable models that sound pretty good. I use the RH200 and I got it for like $250
I actually just bought a RG1503H for that reason! Soon!
@@TaylorDanley dude the randall rh200 is amazing, I mine with a behringer 7 band in the loop and it slays. I have the non g2 version, so I'm not sure how the g2s options sound but I'd check it out.
Picked up a VS100 combo for 200 Canada land dollars locally. I had to open it up and do some soldering on the circuit boards, but now runs like a champ. The real killer on these VS100's is poor soldering from the factory. Components on the boards would come loose so might be worth checking on yours by an amp tech. Mine still worked even though there were loose components inside.
Yeah, that's what I hear. The 8100 is good, I don't know that I will keep the vs100 though.
Just to throw a spanner into the works - the best 8100 tone I've heard recently was from the Martyr pedal by Master Effects. For this particular demo, I think the VS100 displays a much richer bass response but that might be my ears :)
I love my Martyr. Would recommend.
just picked up a used vs100 with the matching 4x12 (all I wanted was the speaker but the pawn shop insisted I buy both) and this video is super informative, thanks! great tones, this amp has suprised me so far.
I have had both an 8080 and a VS102R.
Tone wise I liked - tested through the same speakers - the 8080 more than the VS102R and kept the 8080.
With the VS100, the tone stack of the OD channel is after the FX loop, which was very odd and limited the use of the FX loop for me.
That 8100 sounds amazing for its age. As for the VS100H, I have one and have noticed that a lot of the used ones floating around tend to have sketchy preamp tubes. I don't know how or why an amp circuit that barely pushes the tube as a "gentle" gain stage is able to fry them, but it does happen -- possibly due to capacitor value drift. At any rate, mine came with a 12AU7 in it which pretty much negated the tube stage's gain. I tried a couple of other 12AX7/ECC83 tubes that I had floating around, and have had good results with a JJ long-plate. It also sounds great with a Tube Screamer out in front, and if you want to get really weird with it, a Guv'nor/Angry Charlie will get you into Carcass territory.
Both sound like angry wasps trapped in a cupboard.
Prefer the VS100, based on my style when it comes to tracking and mixing it would probably work better for me.
Thanks Talor you rule!
The used vs100 I bought months back seemed dull to me until I had the preamp tube changed and holy crap it really woke the amp right up and it’s a monster now. I’d still like to get an 8100 at some point just because it seems they need to be side by side.
As far as the vs100 power dimension goes, I find it useful when playing at lower bedroom volumes because it helps add more feel when turned down.
Very cool demo but yeah, I think the comparison might’ve been different with a new preamp tube in the vs100.
What preamp you go with
@@paulrise ECC803 S.
My brother bought a vs100, and it has an issue where barely any of the distortion works. Ill try and see if getting a new tube will help it
8100 sounds gnarlier,. A bit grittier and "nastier" in a way that sounds nice to me. And the power dimension button seems to just be a "make worse" button.
I would probably slightly prefer the 8100 - which is what I used to own - but I don't think the difference is huge.
I'd be very interested to hear the AVT series lined up against these. Those are the valvestates that people seem to REALLY hate!
I have tried an AVT, to my ears it sounded really digital. Which was a bad thing 20 years ago.
I’m keeping my eyes out for one!
@@TaylorDanley buy mine
@@TheRosswise
How does an analog amp 'sound digital'?
Personally I'd describe AVTs as sounding mushier and not nearly as aggressive as the older Valvestates. Replacing the stock speaker helped reduce the mushiness and mud. I've mostly used mine as a power amp for other gear.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 It just did.
Valve state 100 dose it for me both sound close very cool video ✌️
I'd take either. The difference is barely noticeable. You can always tweak the 5100 if you really need to. Personally, I've never played a Marshall valvestate head, that needed an extra boost.
I'd love to see you play one of the old Tealstripe Peavey Bandit/Supreme amps. Was used a lot in early Swedish Death and Black Metal
I’m surprised the matching 8412cabinet to the 8100 didn’t catch back on.
The g12l-35 speakers are a huge part of the death/white zombie/prong sound
I found a 8080 Combo last Week with some early 90s Eminence Speaker in it for 100€.
It was totally dead and a risk. But cleaning the Pots fixed it.
I've added a Output jack and now it wis waiting for some "GrrrrhhhhGGHHHH"
The 8080 Combo has the same Circuit as the 8100. I can't wait to blend it with my 6505 to play with the "Dark At the Flames" Sound :D
Can i turn my new valvestate head into an 8100 or the other good one i forgot the number of it?
I had one the original valvestates back in 1994.when It stopped working I brought it in to a certified marshall tech and he said wasn't worth fixing and to just go buy a new marshall tube amp. I didn't know what I had till now
Tube snobbery is a hell of a thing. I got some amazing deals over the years because of it though.
With as cheap as they were at the time, he may have been right depending on the severity of the damage… but I don’t think this amp has many expensive components… sounds like the tech was kind of a dick 🤷♂️
@@TheRosswise I think this is more of a hindsight kind of thing than snobbery. Solid state amps are typically trickier/more expensive to repair and the technology was still maturing at that time.
@@StandTallTx Unless the problem was a proprietary transformer, I doubt it. Caps are dirt cheap and easy to replace and that is most of the problem with solid state issues. Transformers are relatively cheap too, that is why it would have to be something proprietary to Marshall to be too expensive to replace. But the tech was Marshall certified so he could have done it for relatively cheaply. It just sounds like the guy was a tube snob.
Only difference that sticks out to me really is that the 8100 has more mids which is saying something since it is already really scooped ha. I'm sure it'd be something you could easily match with an eq in the loop though
Hey man killer video. Hope you see this but I been looking into putting a custom order for a Deviant guitars. Unfortunately there seems to be no review videos of them on youtube. Would you recommend them? I am considering putting a custom order soon. Thanks
I'll have one soon, but yeah Royce is a good friend and he does a really good job handcrafting instruments.
I still prefer the 8100.. which tuning on that guitar?
C standard my dude
i thought the VS100 sounded better, fuller and not as abrasive in the high frequencies!
This Is quite funny, Cuz I bought the POD Go cuz I see some of your vids, and I have that VS100, now you got my gear! Jajajaj and yeah, the Pod go in front of my vs100 sounds awesome
That is funny! Who knew I'd go down this rabbit hole of 90's gear when I first started my channel.. either way it's been so much fun!
@@TaylorDanley love your vids Bro! Keep It up🔥
Where you set the contour after you said "it's a little bit weird in the midrange" is about where I keep mine. And I always leave the power dimension switch off
Yeah to me that 9 o'clock position is where it sounds more like a traditional JCM.
Yeah it’s so sensitive, I feel like 9 o clock is a good starting point and then I dial it back jusssssst a hair until you hear the fizz in the top go away. Keep in mind though too that high end is really emphasized by the v30s in my mesa
@@TaylorDanley I've got the vs265 combo, stock. The high end is surprisingly tame on the stock speakers
The valvestate is a great amp, but it becomes better when you remove the medium gain 12AX7 and put in a jj 12AX7 high gain, it then sounds like a TSL100, great amp, I'll never get rid of mine...m
Through my studio headphones the VS100 sounded more scooped and muddier with more bass compared to the 8100 in this comparison, i felt i liked the 8100 quite a bit better but maybe the VS100 could be tweaked to sound closer, who knows. I dont think the 8100 is expensive over here in Sweden, as i mentioned in the earlier video i recently saw on for what compares to about 100 dollars. New Marshalls also seems to be crazy expensive in the USA compared to here in Europe, its like double the price for some reason.
Import taxes is my guess.
@@TheRosswise Maybe but that is some crazy taxes in that case. For example i just looked up the price of a Marshall JVM410H head a Thomann and it costs 1299 Euros at Sweetwater the same amp costs 3199 US Dollars and the Euro and Dollar is worth very close to the same.
@@Stefan- Well it is just a guess. I am sure import taxes on the US end, VAT on the EU end, and shipping across the ocean add a lot to the cost. Add in currency conversions, that adds too. And maybe Marshall just charges more in the US because they can.
@@TheRosswise The Thomann price is including VAT (and shipping to Sweden even), i dont know if VAT is included in the Sweetwater price, to my understanding it is often not included in the US while its always included here in Sweden unless the prices are ment for other companies which can be the case in certain cases, but you will never see prices without VAT in a normal store. Again, the currency conversion doesnt add much since they are almost the same, 1299 Euros is 1334 US Dollars, so its 1334 USD at Thomann compared to 3199 USD at Sweetwater. I dont know why but it is crazy.
That’s awesome, I’d scoop one up because they go for $500+ here in the states!
Yes they probably could be dialed to be a bit closer, I think I got the vs100 there in the demo portion, but like I said there is that caveat of my 8100 being totally serviced, so that’s a big factor also
I've never had t/rear if t/head open. (And don't plan too!) I leave that up to more experienced folks then myself! But just because - what is the tube (valve) inside the amp?
Which one? I think Marshall used branded tubes (probably rubys or something, no idea) I replaced the tube in the 8100 with a JJ
I can say this. I had a band in the 90s where I had a VS 100 and my other guitarist had a 8100. I could never get mine to sound as good as his.
Different speakers maybe?
Taylor I have had the 8080v twin speaker combo ,just had it repaired, the chorus and reverb have been repaired, but the gain is shit. What's the component which has failed. So I have now bought a second hand jcm2000 tsl 60, have you a review on this amp. Also bought a cheap MG30fx for practice, have you a review on the MG30? 2022 MODEL
Taylor, what is your favorite settings on the od2 channel on the vs100? I'm trying to dial it in and all the options with the buttons and everything are becoming too much as I try. It becomes mush and I have a hard time. Looking for your favorite metal tone. Thank you
Almost a two years ago I've got 8100 for EUR 60. Would say it is a bit overpowered for me, but I couldn't stand the price... It was in working condition except the reverb (broken wire) and small, but pretty deep fire mark on top. So I did some work - build new case, put on new vinyl (brown, like on acoustic combos), some accents in details. Now I'm working on matching design speaker cabinet to have a set. A custom build for myself.
Dweebs, great Punk rock band name! Fun amps, I used to have one of the smaller combos, sounded like a small 70's AM radio/toaster lol.
I have a smaller Valvestae with 2 12 inch speakers and I love it , it's loud and I love it .
Wow, these much more different than I was expecting.
The big question is, how old are the tubes? These amps date way back, have you checked whether tubes were replaced recently?
I think with a fresh 12ax7 the vs100 could make it even
12Ax7 preamp tubes really don’t need to be replaced like power amp tubes. I have a VS265R combo that I bought new in 96. Two years back I wondered about swapping out the tube and it made zero difference in tone.
I bought a 8080 combo in 92 and traded(yup trade for trade) it in 95 with a kid who had a plexi superbass head and cab that he couldn't use in his parents apartment.
A year after because my ass was broke and I couldn't afford new tubes and that thing need an inspection I ended up trading that head at a music store for a brand new vs 100 and 50 bucks.
You do so much stupid shit when you're 21. Sold the vs in 2004 but still got that cab with original 70s Greenbacks and it sounds phenomenal.
That’s the truth! I just feel lucky that I was able to trade my way back to getting a triple x back in the stable. I sold my first one when I was younger and regretted it!
Somehow this is the first time ive seen this channel - super fun! Subscribed!
In 1995 I bought an 8100 half stack, and the next year the other guitarist in my band bought a VS100 half stack. The differences when you were switching back and forth were very familiar. I always liked his tone better, but really he was just a better player than me.
Fuck yes! The video I've been waiting for!
🥳🥳🥳
Wow, the Deviant guitar webpage needs too be upgraded somehow! I couldn't even get from the 'hompage' to where you just might be able to purchase one! WASSUP?? Is your link bad, or what?!?
No, it’s a one man show and he just doesn’t have a great website yet. You can contact him on IG too
Hi can you do a comparison between the peavey invected mh and the marshall jubilee 2525h iam thinking about buying one but don't know what one to get
@Taylor Danley Hi!! what song are you playing at 9:08?
Hail by my band Sacrificer
I had a valvestate combo back when they first came out and ended up using it as a preamp into a bigger tube amp and it wasn’t bad with an overdrive in front of it. I feel like I want another one now lol. What brand/model is that guitar? That thing is insane!
8100 sounds more natural and "tubey", like the older jmp Marshalls, as the other v.s. heads sound like metal monsters! Love 'em all!
i have a 8100, but i loved the AVT150 when i was younger, im trying to get one to shoot them out. i got my 8100 out of the trash lol! getting it serviced now because the pots are super scratchy.
Pawn shop just sold me a vs100 for 50 bucks. No sound. One spray on the headphone jack and now I have a vs100 for my doom metal
Band
Based off the first little track, while I think the 8100 is overall “better sounding” amp (I’d reach for that one first to record main tracks)
That said, the VS100 has a more Distinct, 90s death metal sound that’s much more Unique, and I’d probably go for that over the 8100, seeing as it wouldn’t be my main amp
That's because of his taste in gain and the condenser mic. With a sm57 on the grill this has much more of an overdriven alternative rock sound. That's why I got mine originally, it sounds completely different depending on how you mic it. I now use mine into a loadbox and I recently used it on a pop punk record and a djent record, go figure.
Oh okay, this is the amp i use at my local studio to rehears with my Doom metal band. I had no clue that the 8100 was used by Chuck ò.ò
I guess the one i use in the studio is the VS100, i gotta check it out. It's pretty neat, very trebley, but i cut off all the treble. It's alright to just rehears, nothing fancy, but you have to get used to equalize it and understand how it works, especially on the first overdrive channel, the low gain one. If you play around with the knobs you'll get pretty sick tones.
ps: i always thought the VS100 was crap to be honest, a crappy made in Indonesia low range amplifier, until i played enough with it putting my fuzz into the OD 1 channel.
Nice but you are using a Mesa Cab, it would be great if you use a Marshall Cab because that is what many People bought in the past
I also assess and set the tone on my amp while sitting behind the dispersion zone of the speakers. 😂 just ribbing you. Great video as usual.
I'm the proud owner of a 78 JMP Master Lead Mk2 combo, and love it, but there are some awesome solid state amps out there, so I'm wanting options, I'm in the process of fixing an acetone ace guts sa45, and I'm just about to be gifted a vs100, so thanks for this video dude🤟
8100 sounds better, the other sounds more like a cheap pedal.
Having owned a VS100 since its release, I can say that it is an absolute keeper as long as you work to its strengths and weaknesses. Its cleans are superb and it takes pedals really well. If you run something like a Sansamp GT-2 into it, it sounds great and much better than the preamp's lacklustre inbuilt OD channels.
Had the 8100...prob 100 gigs, sold it few yrs ago for $250...still wish id kept it
Most of these were sold as 1x12" combos, not heads. The 8080 came with a good Celestion speaker, in contrast with VS100 and newer Valvestate combos, which came with some cheapo speakers. That's propably where the love towards earlier Valvestates come. In reality, the newer ones are great too, and very similar sounding, but of course the 8100/8080 is the most classic one.
What style of metal would you consider the playing in this video? I never care for metal playing in gear demos but this stuff is quite stellar.
Mines doesn’t make any noise just a thump when I turn it on and nothing all the led works but no sound
I owned quite a few Marshalls being a huge fan of the original Valvestate lineup, ( i still own an 8080 two 8040, and a 8020. also recently sold my 8010 Which I regret horribly) if I had to pick one of them without having time to play and test them fully, My choice would be on the 8100, i had a few of the "newer" Valvestate and to me, they have more in common with China Junk amps than with the original V8... lineup.
guys I have a question, I just bought a valvestate vs100 and all my life ive only had solid state amps. but the vs100 has a preamp tube what exactly does that do?
i bought a vs100 today and it was around 350$ but the guy accepted 320$ and im so excited for it to hopefully ship with no issues
Definitely a big difference in mid-range voicing between the two. I played through a VS100 full stack for a few years when I was a young stringer. I don't remember it being that forward in the mids. But I was using the matching VS 4x12 cabs which did not have V30's like your Boogie OS. V30's can be pretty beakey and forward in the mids. I wonder if the VS100 would prefer a cab loaded with something like a G12H30.
The VS100 is useable for sure and comparable, but the 8100 has much better clean/crunch sounds, and while the distorted sounds don't differ much getting the tone you want seems much easier to do on the 8100.
That’s true, I actually much prefer the clean sound of the vs100 though…. I just wish it had that crunch mode like the 8100 did!
Any chance for a shootout of old solid state vs new? Maybe like the 8100 or Ampeg vs the new Orange Super Crush? Cheers.
I had VS100H From 1992 i quess🧐 it was my second amphead ever,
(first one was Randall Rg100g2, also Awesome amp)
and it was a perfect thrashmetal machine🎸🔥🤟
Sounds like the VS100 could use an overdrive compared to the 8100 but it sounds totally fine
Yeah, I actually shot a part with overdrives in front, but the video was getting kind of long... I should have kept it in!
Only difference i really hear are the 8100 has more mids. Not listening with headphones tho. I used to own one of these. I think it was the vs100. If it was the 8100 i obviously didnt know what i had at the time.
I think that’s most people that used to own them, but also when you buy an amp new for such little money, that’s bound to happen!
@@TaylorDanley true that. Im glad to see your channel blowing up man. You know i been here since the beginning. Still never miss a video! 🖤
@@billyturk8117 thanks dude, appreciate you!
What guitar is that? Looks great!
Deviant Guitars Grimoire
Is there any difference between the VS100 and the VS100H?
AWESOME ! Thanks a lot for your video @Taylor Danley. My old 8100 crashed few month ago and its apparently very expensive to repair (or simply ask for a quote in order to be repared) , and I got an opportunity to grab a SV100 but not knowing what could ne the differences. And you did it !!! By the way, I enjoyed listen to you playing so well your riffs, you made my day.
Glad it helped!
8100 sounds more focused/punchy, just a better overdrive character. You seemed to enjoy playing it more as well. Side note: some of your riffing has super Hate Eternal vibes and I'm digging that!
That's awesome dude! I'm glad you enjoy it. Great band!
Thank you for these rad videos. 👍👍👍
From what I understand all VS amps are sensitive to the preamp tube used. I’ve got a JJ 12AX7 in mine which opened it up a bit.
Tones here are awesome!
Hey dude, thanks for dropping in!
Studio monitors tell me the 8100 sounds much better in the mid range than the VS. The VS sounds really thin, lacks midrange and that definition on the "punch" of the guitar. I think in a full mix the 8100 is going to give you a better tone.
(2)
Agreed. I bet if I worked it a little more I could get the vs100 there, but in general that’s the feeling I get from both of them.
i mean you arent wrong and i agree with everything you said, but you cant deny even in this video VS sounds better in the mix..
i retract my statement, the best would be a tracking a guitar with both amps!
tube screamer does wonders for my vs100 OD2 channel hehehe
I bought a vs100, nice fun amp imo, good practice amp for only 250$
Really good vid man. Avt150 next?
It’s on the list for sure, if I can find one for a good price when I’m ready to buy more, I will
Man that riff starting at 14:38 is 🔥
In my honest opinion, I think the VS100 sounds better and more full. Good for me since they go for a much better price used!
Opposite I say. 8100 sounds more like a tube Marshall.
Chug battle f\/*k YEAH hell yesss
Still would've been cool to hear those great Death riffs through a Mark 2c++ . Chuck said he liked the tightness of the Valvestate amps but the Mark Amps were also very tight but sounded better imo
Thanks for the demo man!! You made up my mind on buying the VS100! I'm picking it up tomorrow and I'm stoked!! Great demo for sure!! Btw what tuning are you in? Sounds wicked!