Whats The Better Ultimate Form Mui or MT?...And Then Some
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2024
- Muso tensei vs ultra instinct...who has the better form I wonder?
#ultrainstinct #discussion #fistofthenorthstar #kenilguerriero #deathbattle #dragonball #hokutonoken
sorry I've been gone for awhile but I'm going to try n focus in on videos again!.....this really is my first ink video without talking about jagi...hrmm..
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Missing Everything [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dTYeMZGzOzw/mqdefault.jpg)
"I've been using Ultra Instinct before it was cool." -Kenshiro.
"He straight stole my boy kens technique"
-Probably Bat
@@Mczprosvids Sounds like something Bat would say. I could also picture Rei saying something like that.
I've been saying this for a long time
Does the Anryu Tenha negate the Muso Tensei?
@@UnstableYT-u7k Not after the seal break
Both share one thing in common: both have amazing theme songs.
100%
And they both have a galactic glow and fought a buff red dude and both dodge and do barrages
@@Ultimatekarz That too.
YU WA SHOCK! vs KA KA KA KA KAZE DAZE!
@@JamKyt9I kill the fight is a good Hokuto no ken soundtrack too
I don’t think solar flare would do anything remember after Ken achieve Muso Tensei he can use his rivals abilities like Shuu to perceive movements while blind and deaf
That's true. I did honestly forget about that whole shuu scene.
Yeah, the part where Kenshiro got distracted by the sunlight during a fight in the anime (don't remember if it was in the manga too) was pre muso tensei if I recall correctly. Afterwards I doubt it would startle him
Remind you all Kenshiro doesn't rely on strength or speed to defeat the enemy, which is scary.
Goku relies on training eating a lot to train and get strong and uses senzu beans. Kenshiro, I don't recall when he had a meal or trained .
That's a funny point. Kenshiro really doesn't eat.
I'm a fan of both series but I am really big into Dragon Ball. So the first thing I thought of when I heard an equal stats fight between these two is Goku vs Hit. Yeah Hit's technique isn't hokuto shinken, but it's pressure/vital point based. With that in mind, Hit gives Goku and Vegeta a run for their money and even kills Goku when they have a serious encounter (Though he does some ki revival thing, he couldn't do that if he exploded). For Ken, thinking about how one clean hit basically means death plus the power of MT, it's a pretty uphill battle for Goku. Fist of the North Star is top 5 anime of all time easily and I recommend more people watch it
100 percent yea. I wish fist of the north star got a remaster or something so more people nowadays could know about it
Bruh, I've been watching Hokuto No Ken for a while now! People are very ignorant about the OG shounen
@@Mczprosvids
Ken would win in equal stats since muso tensei makes Ken's body go into a state of nothingness making him untouchable he also can press pressure points using his aura named the 7 stars of death he can also use techniques of the warrior's he fought even if goku could block he is still exposing his pressure points in his arms he also has raoh's techniques which are crazy powerful like the heavenly commander's charge and a punch fueled by his fucking soul which opened heaven and can obliterated anyone caught in the attack
The connection between the two is a bit deeper than just glowing and dodging. They are both inspired from the concept of battle trances and emptying your mind in said trance. They both just go a different route. Also I feel like the "Kenshiro can't fly" point is a bit moot considering in Dragon ball that's just said to be a form of Ki control that even regular humans can and have learned. So I have no reason to believe that Ken being the insane prodigy he is wouldn't be able to pick it up even without MT fairly quickly. I also remember Goku being able to tank hits in UI by shifting his weight so it doesn't connect the same way even when he does get hit. The only issue is I only remember him doing that after he realizes what's going on and his issue is going to be that in HK pretty much every blow is a killing blow. Maybe he could pull something out of his ass but if stats were normalized Ken pretty much has this in the bag. I don't think people who argue against it realize that while UI is the ultimate form MT is the penultimate technique of the ultimate form in its respective setting. Really the more I think about it the more I realize that UI is closer to base HK (utilizing 100% of your body and mind when you fight) than MT.
i gotta say 11/10 amazing video i love that Kenshiro is finally getting some love and very well made and researched love
Kenshiro: Hokuto Shinken has a history of being invincible for almost
2000 years.
I kinda feel your underestimate the power of hokuto no ken Characters. Like I know most of them aren't gonna be blowing up a planet except for kenshiro and maybe kaioh. But their a lot stronger than what most people would think
One thing I notice with ultra instinct is that it isn't exclusively dodging. UI also utilizes blocks...but Kenshiro is shown to destroy his opponents simply by letting them block his attacks, as every time they block Ken's punch, they actually expose their arms to pressure point attacks. Any touch from Kenshiro can end up fatal. If Goku doesn't know that right off the bat since Ken is uses an assassination art, Ken can greatly reduce Goku's abilities or outright kill him.
Kenshiro doesn't even need to attack in order to win the fight. He can passively kill his enemies. I also believe that if Goku had full strength but didnt know anything about Kenshiro, he could still die anyways. Dragon ball isnt as technical as HnK so though Kenshiro without Musou Tensei could be killed quick by a full power attack, Kenshiro can ignore conventional durability anyways and be lethal if a single mistake is made by a z fighter.
Also, Goku is obsessed with "making it a good fight" and won't usually go all out in a fight. He sorta knew how OP Jiren was but still toyed around with his weaker forms before using his full strength.
Kenshiro either kills the enemy ASAP or defends himself, striking pressure points so that even if his enemy powers up or something they are either already dead or severely hindered.
I think its a shame dragon ball is so reliant on new "forms" and raw power. To me it barely even resembles martial arts anymore. They do basic punches and kicks but it just ends up being "whos transformation is strongest", like Broly fighting like a roided up caveman and still being a huge deal and messing up Goku who is supposed to be soooooo good at martial arts. Seems like most of dragon ball's martial arts just come down to power ups and not actual fighting styles.
This is why I prefer Hokuto No Ken and miss original Dragon Ball (ergo, Goku as a child).
I'm a Martial Artist myself and really appreciated how in Goku fought in original DB. I also like how Hokuto No Ken is more in it's overall presentation as you can at least appreciate how it's a question of skill rather than of "power" through "forms".
Most people do not know that HNK inspired DB anyway, Kenshiro is more like Goku's mentor in reality, just like Jesus Christ, Bruce Lee and Mel Gibson Inspired Kenshiro.
@@tv44-alternative23 Jesus Christ inspired Kenshiro? I didn't know that Kenshiro was a devout Christian.
You... do realize the fact Goku is not only a SAIYAN(a far more durable species than humans), but also from a world where Hokuto Shin Ken would be less than useless against virtually everyone? Remember its a different universe with VERY different 'laws', therefor what might be doable in one anime might not be possible in the world of another. The sheer power gap between the two would also make Hokuto Shin Ken totally useless, as was a pretty established 'trope' even back then that if the foe is stronger than you, nothing you have will work on them. As for the whole Musou Tensei argument... well purely physical attacks definitely don't work, but non-physical attacks probably would. Which Goku _can_ do by the way, did them quite a few times back in the OG series and in the movies of the OG series.
I do however agree that as a whole, Dragon Ball has significantly deteriorated. Early Z was honestly where I found the martial arts aspect just... withering away.
@@The-Singularity-X01
- durabilty doesnt matter, Ken has killed people through armor before
- The sayians are never stated to have weird shit like different pressure points and stuff, and like the video mentioned Goky had a hear attack
- EQUAL STATS
From the verse of apeing "Muso Tensei Good, Ultra Instinct bad".
Yea pretty much XD
if goku fights gradually, but kenshiro's strength will rise as well. if goku blocks attacks instead of dodging, he will slowly deplete. i think the fight will end with goku not being able to use ssb due to exhaustion, and kenshiro copying all his techniques will easily win
Goku would either die or miraculously fuck up and end up losing because that happens everytime he uses ui against someone important
If Kenshiro used Hokuto Shinken on Goku it would end in both of them dyng. Hokuto Shinken messes the flow of ki in the opponent, short circuing it this causing the explosion. On normal people it resurts in a shower of blood and entrails, but on someone like Goku, someone with ki reserves big enough to destroy solar systems, it would result in nothing short of a super nova. Kenshiro CANNOT use Hokuto Shinken on Goku, his only choice is to use Nanto Seiken.
That's an interesting take. I never even thought of that actually.
Damn, Kenshiro can just turns Frieza or Beerus into a suicide bomber
Now that you put it that way, Kenshiro opting to use Nanto Seiken moves rather than his usual Hokuto Shinken attacks makes a lot more sense against the likes of Goku. Plus, causing a supernova from utilizing Hokuto Shinken is too risky even for a terrifying juggernaut like Kenshiro to do.
That wouldn't work against Goku actually. Goku has near complete control over his Ki, which is how he was able to mix Blue and Kaioken. Simply put Hokuto Shin Ken can't do the 'make the victim explode like a blood filled balloon' thing against Goku. It might be able to disrupt a limb or two for a few moments, but nothing more than that.
@@The-Singularity-X01 I mean, Hit's death touch techniques work on Goku so I think it is fair to say Kenshiro's would work.
Great video !
I would like to bring a point tho.
You said that one of the main issues with the non nerfed Goku and Kenshiro would be the fact that Goku can fly and Kenshiro doesn't. BUT Kenshiro can copy any technique he sees with MT and Goku is actually flying thanks to a technique called the Sky Dance Technique. So Kenshiro would technically be able to fly too if we consider that the energy used by the technique doesnt matter.
I thought I commented on this when I originally saw it but yea that's a great point! I kinda forgot humans in dbz could fly as well. I guess that means Ken not flying mid fight wouldn't really be much of a problem would it XD.
you know he also has a copy technique besides Muso Tensei and he also has the art of dragon's breathing which further has him tap into 100% of his body's potential as well as the fact that his soul is pure further helps him win.
If Goku fights kenshiro I have to remind you the technic Goku uses to fly actually is possible by humans in DBZ. The god ki powers are too. Kenshiro can actually match Goku in a real fight on top of muso tensei
Ken only used Muso Tensei against Solia out of respect, since he says "I will remember your name" just before using it
Also... Kenshiro can 100% shoot beams. He can use Toki's attacks, and Toki's ...uh.. tohki... are literally blade projections of aura. It's a high level Hokuto Shinken attacks. Oh you mentioned it. I think Kamehame Ha is much stronger but it literally doesn't matter. Goku can't hit him.
Goku: Wow vegeta what is that? Meditation? It'll make us stronger?!
Yeah the people that say Goku is outsmarting Ken are crazy.
How exactly can Goku beat Kenshiro unless he just wipes out the planet instantly? Even without equalized stats: Kenshiro has precognition, Muso Tensei and can just copy moves if he wanted to and adapt to Goku's speed or power if necessary. Unless Goku can somehow bypass Muso Tensei or even Soryu Tenra he can't win that fight and it's unlikely that he'll instantly blow up the planet.
Even if he blew up the planet - if Kenshiro were to remain in Muso Tensei state not even that would scratch him. On the other hand we don't know the limits of MT.
Great video tho! I enjoy seeing new FotNS theory / discussion videos.
If goku blew up the planet I don't think ken could breath in space even MT (either or we probably wouldn't figure out the answer to that), also can Ken gain others powers?(Stat wise not like technique wise) and ya thank u 🙏
@@Mczprosvids during the fight with Han Kenshiro went from not being able to see Han's fist to exchanging blows with him, killing him in the end (even Shachi didn't see their fists at first, but he also adapted and was able to see afterwards)
Powerwise he never had to adapt, but I'm pretty sure he can, if needed. But he wouldn't need a power up due to MT being so OP
@@KingKenshiro the only thing is goku far out classes anyone's speed in HNK. Dbz character could travel around the earth in less then a day in the buu saga and there far stronger then they were back then. I don't think ken could humanly adapt to speeds that fast. Kens strength isn't as much of a factor. Gokus punch could most likely destroy a planet if he wanted it too, while Ken can't do that and is nigh nowhere close to striking power as someone like beerus(who tapped a planet in half) his advantage is pressure points being able to one shot people. But as I said I can't imagine a situation where Ken could get a hit on goku, If he did kaiohs technique (The one he used on MT I forgot the name) or some other way to catch goku off guard without hitting him possibly but otherwise it's nigh impossible.
@@Mczprosvids Goku tries to punch MT Ken and fails (cuz MT) -> MT Ken hits Goku -> Goku dead
Saying Kenshiro couldn't land shots on Goku is a pretty long shot.
Ken is far from being a "normal human" he is almost godlike by the end (see his uncle Kasumi Kenshiro) so we can't say that he can't humanly adapt to that speed. He is already as fast as being invisible to normal human eyes. Kasumi dodges bullets at point blank range just before they hit him, for instance. That's not even a big feat for him
@@Mczprosvids Ken is touched by the Buddha
Nice analysis
I absolutely love the fist of the north star fav anime ppl always think kenshiro is weal wich i hate cause hes not MT entered the chat 😂 but i love how this guy responds can u pls do ger vs MT that would he appreciated pls respond u earned a sub fav yt
Muso Tensei is better. IMAGINE Goku using Jiren, Broly, Cell, Buu, Frieza's moves on an enemy.
GOKU is SO GOOD @ LONG RANGE & HIGH SKILLFULL FIGHTER.
KENSHIRO LIMITED RANGE BUT CAN BECOME GOKU.
Ultra instinct is autonomous body technique making you dodge, it doesn't make you faster, if the other person is too fast it's impossible to dodge
Musou Tensei (unconscious Transmigration) Takes the win 💯 Im not too big on super honestly
I don't know if this counts,but when Kenshiro fought Kaioh,his blast could destroy the moon plus when Kenshiro acquired Tenryu Kyoku Ho the could destroy the moon with his fists
Are you perhaps talking about Kaioh being scaled up to Moon level? I know Vs Battle wiki should be taken with a grain of salt at times but Kaioh did completely wiped out a Kenshiro, who is powerful enough to punch Falco that exerted enough power to split open the ground and clouds all at once, and he does scale above Raoh in most aspects, including the Hokuto Gōten Shō technique which is stated to be of Island busting proportions.
Forgot to put in a 100% Kenshiro there (before he interacted with the Nyoninzō)
We can't assume that Kenshiro can copy any technique regardless that would be a fallacy off rip. It might work in his universe but it doesn't exactly mean he can copy techniques from other fictions especially since they use a different power source ki chakra spirit energy etc. We also must look whom the technique was used against, and the magnitude of the techniques power. Not all techniques scale up very well. I'm not convinced Muso tensei is at the same type of power as MUI. Since MUI requirement of power is such a higher threshold than MT. It's sorta like trying to compare a spider sense to MT.
MT doesn't really need to power scale due to the fact that it's not a power based transformation. Kens techniques can insta kill people but MT just gives him, intangiblity, ability to channel his fallen allies, etc.
The main reason alot of comments say Ken could mostly likely copy gokus moves is due to 2 things, A he's copied fighting styles that have worked entirely different from his before and we don't know the full extent of that ability but from every description it says it copies any technique flawlessly and thats all we have to go on i can understand why you can disagree with that point though, B Goku has alot of techniques extremely similar to things fist of the north star characters have been shown to be able to do, in the same stats scenario goku would probably just look like a martial artist with a very odd style
Kenshiro vs Saitama will be good fight
The Kenshiro ranged attack that you mentioned its named "Tenha Kassatsu" and it is litterally unblockable since it hits the pressure point
If we then compare it with
Kenshiro Kasumi, the uncle of Kenshiro of "Souten no Ken" (or "Fist Of The Blue Sky " in English) there is literally no comparison, Ken solos
Both are "auto mode"
Expect
Musou is accepting sorrow
Where
Ui is accepting power
Ken has and can use the Muso Insatsu.... that's it.... it's literally MUI before MUi..... and its not just a dodge its also a counter so its better. (this move can be seen in Raoh vs Toki)
I'm gonna say that as a massive DB and Hokuto fan that i think Musou Tensei is the superior technique.
I think moreso because Kenshiro feels more human than Goku, i overall enjoy HOW he achieved what he did, AND i think Musou Tensei feels more like an end all be all considering all the forms Goku has ended up with.
To be honest Ultra Instinct is a common power, there is a version of it or something similar in pretty much any fighting manga, even Ken has something like it the Muso insatsu, its the same as UI, the only reason that Ultra Instinct has any hype is because Goku has it, its a pretty mid thing if you look at it as a stand alone power.
Kens Rage called Musou Tensai "Subconscious Transmigration of the souls". I thought that was a pretty good name for it. Tensai means genius though or is it tensei which is different? I dont know.
I'm glad I looked this up though because I though these two techniques were similar and there are apparently some huge differences. I kinda think Kenshiro could kill Goku without the power levels being equal too. He just needs one hit.
Someone else brought up kenshiro being able to fly sense he can learn techniques by seeing them and flying isn't a saiyan specific technique. It's definitely possible
@@Mczprosvids Yes and even though the power levels dont go insane in Hokuto no Ken quite like Dragonball, I think that Ken's assassin arts plus Gokus arrogance in a fight would come into play and allow Kenshiro to say his carchphrase. Goku would be tempted to take Kens attack to see if it can hurt him. Because he is kinda stupid like that.
@@jrtien oh 100% gokus normally pretty stupid. I don't doubt he'd get one tapped unless he's somehow instantly aware of who he is
Also Ken gets stronger by absorbing his opponents aura/ki so even if hokuto doesn't work(even though you need to know hokuto yourself to not explode against a hokuto technique) Ken could just MT to stall long enough to become stronger than Goku, he'd also get goku's powers through being his foe/rival.
Also hokuto soryu tenra makes both the user and the foe fight in a empty void where both of the fighters speed, strength, ki etc are stripped with only their martial arts skills left which would mean free win for the hokuto user.
Hey man this was a good vid you think you can compare Hokuto Ryu Ken and the Satsui No Hado/Dark Hado.
Only character I know that can obtain musou tensei in dragon ball is Future Trunks
And probably Future Gohan if he weren't dead.
Finally, someone speaking facts in this debate.
Flying is a technique in DB Universe as well. In a fight no matter what Goku did Kenshiro would be able to match and exceed almost instantly. Just saying... That's how his form works, then not being able to hit him is going to be a problem. Also remember that Kenshiro can sense fighting spirits, so he'd either pop the form or have a heart attack instantly from how massive the force of goku was.
I think Goku and Kenshiro’s secret techniques would even out, but with Goku losing. Kenshiro has every fighter’s techniques from Shin’s Nanto Seiken, Rei’s Nanto Suichoken, Shu, Nanto Hakuruken, Souther’s Nanto Hoh Ken, Toki’s Hokoto Shiken, and Ryuga’s Taisan Tenrou Ken. Goku barely survived Jiren the first time, but Kenshiro almost beat his brother Raoh because he feared Kenshiro after mastering Museo Tensei!🤣🤣
Toki's Hokuto Juu no Ken (Lit. Soft Hands Fighting Technique)
Only correction fron Ken fighting Souther was that Ken lost their first battle and he did the same exact same thing. But on his later fight, he did figure it out just fine halfway through that fight.
Also his Hundred Cracked fists hit pressure points disabling and weakening the opponent over time.
Your Video is a 9/10 as even before the whole One Upmanship of Anime all together i have been saying the same thing for decades.
Also Kenshiro also has teleport abilities in the first season for a couple episodes, but i guess they dropped it overall.
MT is the better one , it doesnt just dodge but he becomes ghost like and able to use any tehnique he saw
i agree with almost all your points here, kenshiro would pretty much bitch slap goku, i can even argue that kenshiro would win even without equal stats, since goku will never fight with someone much weaker than him and he would put himself at kenshiro s power and ken could simply touch his pressure points getting him to sleep or paralyze him, and from what i remember in souten no ken it was stated that hokuto shinken can counter subconcious movement and during kaioh vs kenshio fight where he surpased kaioh he stated that hokuto shinken has infinite fighting variations and infinite potential said by kaioh and lin, hokuto shinken is broken as fuck, equal stats goku is basically just nothing compared to kenshiro, with and without musou tensei.
Ken could learn to fly. It is a skill that is done with ki control.
👍👍👍
What makes matters worse Kenshiro surpassed Musou Tensu to some unknown technique that ended Majin Kaioh who was far worse than his bro Raoh, made Musou Tensu look like a girl scout in the manga
👍👍👍
I think only a madman would argue that if both Goku and Kenshiro fight with the same stats that Goku would win.
Hokuto hyakurutsu ken and hokuto zankaiken
Kenshiro used heavens command charge against han
Ultra Instint vs Muso Tensei.
🤔
But have you considered this, hokuto lets you use 100% of the human strenght while regular training can only unlock 30%, have we seen a human in dragon ball at 100% ?
Humans got heavily shafted in Dbz since after the original DragonBall. Unless we count roshis buff form as "100%" most likely not
Guru unlocking someone's potential?
@@babygiraffe7074 they got stronger tho, you cant get stronger than 100%
Is kenshiro a god by the end of the manga
i tihnk one of the weirdest things in Fist of the Northstar is when Shachi is too slow too even see the shadow of Han's fist ... so he gets someone on equal lvl to fight him for 5 seconds, and than his eyes and speed adapt to that Han's..... bro legit just fot 300% faster from watching a fight for 5 seconds ... and Shachi isn´t even that strong ... in Fist of the Northstar, speed seems to work somewhat different i guess
i think MT only let its user to master the abilities that his previous rivals mastered since kenshiro also uses MT on kaioh but he did not master kaioh's techniques such as the technique that brings kenshiro into a whole new dimension to confuse his senses so i dont think MT really let its user to copy his opponent's techniques
He could've but he never really needed to. Unlike most main anime forms the problem was Ken never really used it that much. The other thing is Ken most likely wouldn't normally use someone like kaiohs powers due to it requiring u to have an evil aura n all that. I believe in Canon in Mt he only really did reis moves, one of yudas and tokis iirc but it's just because he didn't particularly need everybody's powers but he has the ability to use them.
@@MczprosvidsHokuto Shinken: Sueshin (Spirit of Water Reflection)
As you said MT is just way too fricken op and honestly Goku would probably only be able to win by getting Kenshiro before he could even do it
OMAE WA MOU SHINDEIRU
But what if in a non equel stats fight the star of death shines above goku?
then goku is just straight up screwed no matter what
the thing is, even if ken hits goku's pressure point does not mean he'll immediately explode, in vegito vs buu, you can see that buu literally went inside super saiyan vegito and tries to tear them apart from inside out, but vegito uses his inner ki and kicks buu out of his body and this is no difference from kenshiro's pressure point attacks which is to blow his enemies from inside out. current goku is stronger than vegito back then so goku could do the same thing but easier.
kenshiro may could disable goku's body parts but in kenshiro's major fights, he seemingly cannot use that technique that could disable an opponent's body part so im pretty sure hitting that pressure point would be tough for speedy and tough major opponents like goku. but he may be able to perform some secret kamehameha on goku to seal him and prevent him from flying like what kenshiro did to souther but the thing is the same thing happened to goku in tournament of power so i dont think goku being not able to fly is a debuff for goku
MUI vs MT? in my opinion MT is like MUI but with extra abilities and MT is effective against even speedy opponents while MUI can be defeated by an opponent with super speed and high accuracy. both techniques can be ruined using area attacks and with the right technique both of them either MT and MUI can be countered and defeated. i'd say MT is superior against MUI because not only because MT is the OG, but MT is like an evolved version of MUI.
Without equal stats I think it be hard for Ken to hit gokus pressure points but I think it still be possible. After getting shot hurt him(bad db super writing) the little frieza guys Lazer piercing him, being hit by a rock when he's caught off guard hurt him. If he can't sense or see the attack coming he can't do much against it. While it be similar to most hnk fights (with it taking a bit of work) considering goku doesn't instantly know who Ken is, if Ken could knock his senses off a bit I can imagine he could disable the rest of him easier.
As for the flying thing, someone else pointed out the goku flying is a technique and not an alien thing (which I forgot about tbh) which means Ken could most likely fly by watching goku fly around for a bit. So that limitation might notve even been needed.
Unfortunately with Mt coming out once in a blue moon, we never got to see if kai ohs abilitiy or anything like that would've worked on kenshiro now. Considering kaiohs anryo tenha distorts time,space and reality which makes it a top tier distortion move and Ken broke out of it eventually. We don't really know what it would take to mess up Ken like that again as no one used anything that intense afterwards.
10:09 that's toki's move
Ken has it too. He just didn't have to use it.
Ui doesn't improvce strength speed or durability, it's just the body moving autonomously to avoid being hit,
Against anyone of -greater- stats, it's something to equal the playing field, Against equal or lower stats it's more or less an instant win button. However musou tensei makes it impossible is as you said, fighting at a much higher level,
Musou tensei is the better form, but i do think it'd be a draw due to the fact their speed would logically in an equalized stats fight be equalized, Neither could hit the other
Id disagree on that because Moro punching mui Goku got his whole arm shattered. Plus the fight between jiren literally proves that mui is a higher level of power.
7:47 Anyone know who composed thos banger??
It's targas theme from Fotns Lost paradise
@@Mczprosvids You saved me..long may the 7 point Dipper shine your way. 🌌🌌🌌🌌
My boy zimatorn made a reaction/response video to this. He knows about FOTNS alot. Long story short he agreed with you but he did point out a few things you got wrong about FOTNS
Oh really? I gotta take a look at that.
Thanks for telling me. I definitely wouldnt've found that without you telling me about it.
@@Mczprosvids it's cool.
The only person Kenshiro couldn't steal moves from was Falco, because that dude was the D&D Sorcerer of martial artists, that is, weird innate martial arts
EDIT: Wait, flying's just a technique. Couldn't Kenshiro just copy that as well? Come to think of it, god ki stuff is someone one can train for as well, so maybe Kenshiro could rip that off as well
Falco explicitly told Ken to see his ultimate move so he could copy it and it wouldn't die off with him, any Toki based or physical based move/technique Ken ever saw its at his disposal and with the use of Muso Tensei he should have acces to techniques he didn't even see used.
@@JR_22A No, that was literally Falco's main shtick. He had an innate martial art that Kenshiro couldn't copy
That's it was so great that Falco's wife was pregnant, so the art wouldn't die.
@@InfernosReaper Falco in the manga literally says ¨K..Kenshiro you can take note of this, that was my final succession technique¨ after cutting the namelss Shura in half and Ken says, ¨I have taken note of it Falco!¨.... anime version is more less the same, they explain that both maniuplate Toki/ki, Ken can use it, Falco is the succesor and the strongest Gento Koken user because he has the golden light, but thats it, its no different from other martial arts that use Toki/ki.
@@JR_22A It also clearly states that it's an inherent/innate style which is why Kenshiro can't just copy it like he did everything else.
That one stuck out more to me, because that was kind of a big deal.
@@InfernosReaper It was not, from chapter 145 when he Falco first shows up to chapter 165 when he dies, at no point they say that his power is an innate thing, his golden light is the only innate thing he has as he is the strongest user of Gento Koken, but apart from that there is nothing of his that Ken couldn't copy, hell at one point Ken lets himself get beaten so he can learn his fighting style...... Ken also says that he received Falco's spirit, that and Falco himself telling him to take note of his final move makes it pretty clear that Ken can copy his moves, he just chooses not to or doesn't have a need for it (as with most other techniques he copied).
Just like with Hokuto Shinken even if its an blood line martial art pass from father to son we saw mediocre people from outside the Hokuto blood lines learn it to some extent, Ken being an absolute prodigy would be able to copy the moves perfectly.
The only thing even close to that is Falco saying that Ken can not undestand his moves.... literally seconds before he just assimilates them and counters them.
Goku figured out the timeskip from hit and almost eliminated Jiren with a new destructo disk move he learnt from krillin
yeah but they werent really intangible just in a different dimension. Kenshiro is literally intangible unless you can use muso tensei, which literally means both fighter will die if they do.
I'd like to know if a saint who mastered 7th sense could learn Ultra Instinct or Musou Tensei could learn these techniques.
.
I wanna watch/read Saint Seiya really bad but I haven't started yet. Eventually though....
@@Mczprosvids Please do. I'd like to see a comparison/review from you.
The big and main difference is that Goku is an alien and his DNA is obviously different from every Super human Kenshiro has fought and defeated.
Kenshiro is still my hero, but this would be a Best buddy scenario at best.
great video tho
Pretty entertaining video with a lot of valid points
Except from the part where you called Souther "Thouzer" that is
Bro this is the third time someone's called me out on his name XD. I just say thouzer cuz I got introduced to his character in Lost paradise cuz I wasn't caught up yet.
@@Mczprosvids poor guy has the worst translation experience. He went from Souther to Souza, to Thouzer and lastly Thouther
@@darnydeeds5729 Ew I've never heard Thouther. That sounds nasty XD
@@Mczprosvids It IS nasty bro.
His name is pronounced "Souza" so there's no definitive way how to write his name
Souther, Thouzer, Thouther.. we don't know if it's due to a "Th" pronunciation problem, because some people can't say "th" - it comes out as "s" when they try saying it. Souther, Thouzer and Thouther would sound the same if said by a person that can't pronounce the "th"
Most powerful human: Kenshiro
Kenshiro is lyk a Bruce Lee/Jet Li type character and Goku more a Jackie chan/Stephen chow type character 2 different styles both insane power houses though 1 now that Goku got sum insane power ups I also luv Vampire Hunter D & Bio boosted Armor Guyver
They dont even need to fight in equal stats kenshiro can use %100 of his brain in musou tensei and that mean he have infinite potential he can use infinite strength speed and durability as he imagined kaioh too said hokuto have infinite potential so kenshiro can beat goku with just one hit he dont even make him mad and kenshiro too can fly exactly because he can use his ki so good he even can use stand so goku have no chance to win even in normal stats of them
Goku would prolly teach kenshiro how to fly and use ultra instinc. Given musou tensei copies techniques. Kenshiro is a god walking earth that just can't fly lol.
Ken should have some limited fly via the use of Toki and Ken already has MUI its called ¨Muso Insatsu¨.
What if Toki also had the Muso Tensei? How would he do against Kenshiro while both having the Muso Tensei?
Nothing would happen, it would be like Ken vs Raoh, they had to drop it as they would both die after a few hits.
Not a bad video, but how do you think he'd deal with the Warp Kamehameha?
In MT he'd go through it but in base form....he might just have to get hit honestly, if not just barely dodge it.
Kenshiro does not actually create new moves on the fly. All the moves he knows were ones he learned growing up training under his master Ryuuken or moves he learned from watching another martial artist. Musou Tensei is possibly the only exception as that he learned through immense sadness. Kenshiro merely decides when to use what technique. It is less that Kenshiro is a fighting genius and more that he learned multiples textbooks worth of crap on pressure points and meridian theory to go along with turning all ht emoves into muscle memory.
Also, Raoh is stated to nearly have Ultra Instinct when he fights Toki in that his body will subconsciously counterattack. It is called Muso Insatsu. That technique is actually closer to proper ultra instinct than Musou Tensei.
MT 🥵🥶
As all fun and game until MT comes out XD
@@Mczprosvids yes everyone gangsta until me Toki from fist of the North Star gets MT
Arent they both animated by Toei animation
Believe so yes
To be fair, flying isn't really a stats thing, so in equal stats, Goku _should_ still win just by having a massive mobility advantage.
-also saying that Musou Tensei can only be beaten by more Musou Tensei lowkey feels like a no limits fallacy but that's just me-
The mobility advantage doesn't really matter unless he was trying to run away from the fight (which he wouldn't do), there isn't much that would change, considering that Ken using Muso Tensei would be unharmed by ranged attacks and that his range is the same as Goku there isn't much that staying mid air would do.
Also since flight is a technique in DB and knowing that Ken can use his aura to move massive objets with ease there is nothing stoping him from learning how to fly like Goku mid fight.
@@JR_22A but I highly doubt kenshrio would be able to handle fight anyways.
The way chi is portrayed in fotns is way different then how chi is portrayed in dbz.
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou The use of Ki and Toki is more less the same over all, but even if he was for some reason unable to copy flight (he would be able to as even Bidel a novice at the use of Ki could fly) he can still move himself around with his Toki aura or simply grab Goku out of the air and force him down (Ken's aura is stupid powerful being able to casually revert a waterfall makeing it shoot into the sky higher than it fell).
who hit first will win , goku has a strong punch and kenshiro has a death technique
I think kenshiro maybe gonna win this fight because goku dont use his max power in the beginig of fight
and if kenshiro touch him goku will be dead alredy
I mean you know that technique when kenshiro put 2 finguers in front head of someone
😅 goku be like
Its equal stats, so Ken just wins, he has better powers and abilities.
We’ve seen that powering up in dbz can just negate hax so goku should be able to undo the effects of Hokuto Shinken by just being in super saiyan or ui that passively makes goku do the best course of action for the context it’s used for,
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Problem has it that the Hokuto Shinken is not hax, it's a energy (or physical) attack that forces the body to self destruct, unless Goku knows what pressure point does what and press the counter point he has almost 0 chance of surviving it.
We have examples of people that have ripped out or burnt out pressure points so this attacks can be stopped even if you don't know the pressure points, but you need to know how to and be able to tank the damage of stoping it, tearing out chunks of your flesh (muscle, nervs, tendons) or burning away the point itself (like Falco who evaporated part of his heart to stop a pressure point attack).
Is likely that by the time Goku realised something is wrong he would not have time to stop it, not to mention that depending on the location of the pressure point he would have to do massive disabling damage to himself to stop it.
Ken___ho
Also Raoh vs Yujiro would be an amazing fight. Raoh smokes Yujiro imo. And Yuichiro is the strongest Baki character.
it depends on who hits first. Raoh, Yujiro explodes. Yujiro, Raoh pretty much dies instantly.
Hokuto tenha kassatsu
See here's the thing, kenshiro mastered his form that no other mastered had ever done until he showed around. Goku, of we r going by the tournament of power ultra since that's what's being showed. Goku will lose cause as we seen its a form that was foreign to him. He might of mastered getting to it, but he doesn't know how to channel it properly with is why it was on a time limit. We all know jiren would of won that battle definitely
Ultra instinct is described as a form so hard, not even thousand year old gods could master it.
The skill needed to attain ui at all, even just sign would require millions of years for the most skilled.
While mosou tensei is hard to learn, it’s probably way harder to learn ui then mosou tensei.
To say musou tensei can't be hit without using musou tensei is a no limits fallacy. For example, if God "fought" kenshiro in MT, ken still loses. I think it is more fair to say that you have to be able to affect multiple dimensions or just be able to damage astral beings. I am not saying goku wins an equal stats fight with kenshiro. I am just saying that depending on the arguements you use, you could say that with god ki, goku can affect multiple dimensions and therefore might be able to hurt kenshiro in MT. With equal stats, there is still hakai that can erase your body and soul. Can kenshiro defend against that? Don't know. The universes are too deferent to be sure. It is a thought provoking idea, though.
It is possible but I feel alot of gokus universe tearing attacks are because he's full strength hitting people or a power up, with equal stats I can't think off the top my head of any moves he has that are just going through dimensions. As for Hakai it's debatable if it work. Just cuz in that state you can argue ken doesn't even technically "exist" to be destroyed, but it could definitely go either or.
@Mczprosvids I agree mostly that Goku's "physical" strength is responsible for most of the damage we see dealt, but affecting multiple dimensions and other universes can be argued to transcend physical strength as infinite strength only gets you to 4d attack potency while goku and beerus' threatened the entire universe 7 macrocasm including heaven which is stated to be a realm that transcends dimensionality. Is this arguement for God ki affecting other dimensions consistent? Maybe. Ki control can be argued for the inconsistencies we see.
Oh gosh this guy is mispronouncing the Hokuto No Ken characters lol. It's RAOH not Roh. Also regular Kenshiro if he's bloodlusted can just musou tensie immediately & phase Goku out of existence.
I correct it later in later videos past I my hnk pronunciations video
Fist of the north star and Kenshiros character, power and story are all completely.
We haven’t seen the full extent of Goku’s Ultra instinct technique yet so saying. UI is inferior is extremely premature
Not necessarily no. At the end of hnk2 it's said ken absorbed the knowledge of all his previous succesors, one of the ongoing Mangas right now is of his succesor two eras ago. Which would mean whatever gets revealed in that story kenshiro would know and be able to use, so that standard applies to both characters. There feats in that story I could've brought up here that ken would be able to do that would've changed even more about the ken section.
I don't think UI is getting anything extra, it may get more powerful stats wise but that's it, Goku may get other powers/abilities but UI is pretty dead end in terms of what it can do, general power boost and enhanced autonomous reflexes, there isn't much to it, to be honest UI is pretty crap, most fighting anime have the same or an improved version, Ken himself has the Muso Insatsu which does the same (makes the body react to unseen attacks subconsciously dodging and doing a counter, no cool down or anything its a passive thing, in the remake movies Raoh says this kicks in before the enemy even chooses what attack they will use).
The only reason UI gets any attention is because Goku has it, its the newest shiniest transformation, but doesn't do much.
Doesn’t kaioh have enough power to destroy the moon
Supposedly..... yes.
Smh never heard of the glow smh noobs
Talk to em bruh.
Super Saiyan?
Musou Tensei?
Stands/Hamon/Spin?
All of these are fodder due to the fact that neither of them compare to the MASTAH. But who’s the mastah you say? Lemme elaborate:
WHEN I SAY WHO’S THE MASTAH
YOU SAY *balls up fists slowly* Shooooo Nuuuufff.
@@KOHARUKOUSUKEI
Me: When you say “MASTAH”, I say *(eyes glow red)* “Slo poke.”
Goku just use powerups to beat his opponents.That is how dragon ball fans know that you are not watched dragonball at all.
@zami8827 yea cuz he definitely didn't need UI to beat jiren. Or ssg to beat beerus. Or super saiyan to beat frieza. Or ssj4 to beat baby. There's literally no examples of what I did so I guess I'm lying.
@@zami8827 or do we want to talk about him literally jumping practically EVERY single villian
Ultra instinct is pretty much a rip off version of Muso Tensei
👍👍👍 YES. MUSO TENSEI is THE FATHER OF ULTRA INSTINCT.
Goku wins…
Video is with equal stats, and equal stats Ken wins 0 diff.
Ken gets stronger by absorbing aura of his opponents just and Mt can also give power not just techniques so he could just copy Goku with Mt and go ui or something lol.
@@JR_22A equal stats, goku just erases him from existence.
@@ismailkeskinklc5300
The ui that Kenshiro would copy from goku isn’t the same ui goku himself would use.
The technique for ui is just auto dodge, not the form and glowey aura itself.
I highly doubt kenshrio would be using ui at all given the taxing nature of it.
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou This is equal stats... if it was full power Goku he could blitz him and do it.... but its not, Goku has to aim at the dude to use the Hakai, by that time Ken could had not problem used Muso Tensei and Goku would have 0 idea where Ken is.
Altho Ken could, he doesn't need to copy UI, he alredy has better stuff, both the Muso Tensei (turns him into ¨nothing¨ and makes him invisible and intangible) and Musou Insatsu (its UI but better since it takes no toll on the body, using MI you automatically react to any attack dodge and counter subconsciously) are better as they have no time limit and can be used at will.
Goku wins because he is childhood ☝️🤓
For you, maybe.
But for many other people Kenshiro was THEIR childhood.
Personally, Goku was a part of my childhood (like you) but Kenshiro taught me the definition of a what a Man and a Martial Artist is. 🙏🥋
@@KamenRider1 You clearly didn't get the joke. Saying "goku wins because it's childhood" was the favorite argument of several Dragonball fans in Latin America to justify that goku beat any fictional character.
@Lautaro Farias
Okay. I'm not from Latin America nor an avid DBZ fan so I wouldn't really know that.
Thank you for clarifying.
@@KamenRider1 far more people grew up with goku then with kenshiro though for the most part.
Except for Japan and Italy where fotns arguably triumphs dbz in terms of popularity, especially Italy.