I am a hugger, and I have a lot of female friends for that reason because most men have issues being hugged by other men. I became friends with this girl in college who wasn't a hugger, but I was unaware of that and she didn't tell me. After a few months, I was hanging out with some other friends and they casually mentioned (not directed toward me) that my other friend didn't like hugs. In my head I was like "oh crap. I've been making my friend uncomfortable every time she sees me." So the next time I saw her when we were with a group of friends, I didn't hug her. She got offended and said, "Where's my hug?" "I was told that you don't like hugs, and I don't want you to be uncomfortable around me." "Well I like them from you." And we went for a hug. Don't know why she only liked them from me, there was never anything romantic going on, and we still have catch up chats to this day.
I'm not saying it's definitely why but... I know for me, possibly because of my anxiety issues, I don't like being touched unexpectedly or being "forced" or feeling coerced into it, and this is USUALLY particularly the case when it comes to receiving hugs from guys, because I'll be frank, a lot of guys out there seem to use it in a... shall we say non platonic sense. Which feels... threatening or unsettling. Like, if I barely know a guy and he's trying to hit on me and then just... hugs me, that's incredibly creepy, unsettling, and makes me feel unsafe; I had a customer once when I was working retail, who was hitting on me and trying to convince me to meet him somewhere by myself to "model" for his photography...and before he left the shop, he spontaneously just. Hugged me. And he did it from the front, in a way that pushed my boobs up against his chest. I was SO creeped out! Even though he didn't physically "threaten" me, that made me, in my own body, feel Unsafe. But. There have always been a small number of people from whom hugs are just... nice . Whom I feel safe with. I like those! From the sound of it she knew you were a general hugger not just around her, and not like straight up just trying to flirt or cop a feel from her. So to me, it sounds like she enjoys hugs from you because because you don't make her feel unsafe, and maybe even actively help her feel at ease. The fact you immediately were willing to back off from the behavior when you thought she was uncomfortable with it speaks volumes, in a good way. It reminds me of my dad and how even some of the most wary pets would gravitate toward him because he was so gentle and respectful of them. It's a wonderful thing. I'm glad she felt safe enough to enjoy your hugs and that you're still in touch ❤
I think it is great that you reacted that way! I hate hugs and here in Germany as soon as you know a person just a little bit better, it is common to hug as a form of saying hello. I am always glad when its over ^^ I play along because i know that the others will think i dont like them (no matter how often i explain that that is not the case), but really i woulkd be glad if i dont have to touch a single person for the rest of my life apart from my boyfriend. He is literally the only exception. I dont even like my parents hugging me. And i am not autistic or anything, i am just really not a touchy person. I also think handshakes and clapping on the shoulder and all of that is just so annoying ^^ I think its great when people respect that :)
ND guy dating a ND girl and she's your friend. My GF doesn't like a lot of things from other people that she loves from me, and certain other close folks in her life.
I remember in the original movie with Christina Ricci when she's forced to go to camp and Morticia says "Wednesday is that the age when girls only have one thing on their mind", to which the councillor jokingly asks "boys?" and Wednesday replies "homicide". As someone who is autistic and absolutely loathed school activities that feeling is so relatable.
Wednesday was always my favorite character, ever, because she was so relatable to me. And especially because she wasn't written to satisfy some social quota like today.
I remember just being angry all the time because of how depressed I was and I felt relieved when I watched that. Felt very relatable to me at the time 🤣🤣
As someone on the autism spectrum myself, I really appreciate your emphasis on how important it is for autistic people to be accepted for who they are, both by themselves and others. It took me years to realize that there is nothing wrong with me for not understanding people's emotions and social cues and to instead look at all the strengths I get from autism. I really appreciate when those with a public platform like you use your expertise for more autism discussions and acceptance.
That's really nice, and good to keep in mind. My brother says I have autism "according to a friend of his in the medical field" and that I need to "fix" certain aspects of my behavior so that I am more in conformity with the rest of society (and he's the only one I know who thinks I'm not in conformity with society). Thing is, I myself don't think I have autism!!! Nothing wrong with it... it's just... it ain't me! But the idea that I have to "fix" myself to please him. So this is good to keep in mind.
Neuro divergent people aren’t just with autism it’s all different mental illnesses and all that shit. So, it pisses me off that autistic people assume characters who aren’t even autistic and look like all different mental illness or disablities because a lot of them have similar traits or looks from the outside.
@@georockstar09 I suggest looking up the traits of autism for yourself and coming to your own conclusion, because when my mom first suggested that I might be autistic I thought she was crazy, but then when I did some research I realized how much of the traits I related to. And not long after that, I was diagnosed
It's interesting how you point out the moments where Wednesday could have expressed empathy, but instead goes straight to the facts. When someone shares something important or sad with me, "that must be hard" is something I have to actively remind myself to say. To me, it feels like empty words. It feels artificial. Whereas asking for more info about the situation, or offering my own experience in response, feels like a genuine exchange, which is how I show that I care. I have trained myself to verbalise my sympathies, though, because it is clearly important to many people. I have also become hesitant to respond in situations like that, because I'm afraid of appearing like I'm making it all about myself. I'm afraid my friend will think I'm dragging the spotlight away from them and onto myself. The thing is: in my brain, there is no spotlight to drag anywhere. Instead, there's a rain cloud hanging over my friend, and what I'm doing is stepping under it with them so that they're not all alone in the rain.
I think as someone who also likes to reply with Stories, I have to remember "that sounds hard or sorry to hear that." As well. For me, I try to think of it like emotional punctuation. You help the other person feel heard that way. However I found this post insightful and I appreciate it. 🌧️🌈🌦️
This is exactly me too! I am not good with sympathising and empathising, I iust learn and tell my similar experiences. (Or I don't respond at all due to me not knowing how to). I've had a lot of difficult friendships where they always thought me askijg a bunch of questions was me ignoring what theyre saying, or me saying my own experiences is me making it about myself. When that is the only way that I know how to sincerely communicate.
i get this on such a fundamental level it's ridiculous. when a friend is telling me about their struggles or what they're going through, my first impulse is always to gather more information by asking questions and try to solve the problem by giving advice or presenting possible solutions i see, often drawing parallels to my own experiences. i want to understand what they're experiencing and i want to help them find a way through it, because that's how my empathy works. it took years for me to learn that sometimes that isn't the help they're looking for - sometimes they just want someone to hear them and validate their feelings, or someone to reassure them that they aren't at fault for whatever situation they're in. nowadays i've trained myself to respond with "that sounds really rough, how can i be here for you right now?" or "do you want empathy, comfort, or advice?", but even that sometimes misses the mark because it's interpreted as less sincere than if i had offered whatever form of support they're looking for, as Enid puts it, without having to be told.
Same. I always had the same intentions, but then I thought about what frustrates me with my family members when I'm venting to them and a big thing is that they never seem to address what I've said properly. They either try to solve it which is often unhelpful or they jump to another conversation without responding at all. I realized that what I need is someone to validate what I'm feeling because for some reason I can relax when someone else "agrees" with me about my situation, but I keep being anxious and upset until then. So realizing that what I need is actually someone to say "yeah, you're right, that sucks" has made me try to start doing that for other people more.
Please please please do not mistake not being able to see emotion in a person with that person not feeling. I live this mis-read regularly. I hurts when I am accused of not feeling (or not feeling enough) in person and even more when it gets passed to me second hand. Yes, I am guarded and use my face weird; these facts are a far cry from "not feeling"
I feel this. Sometimes I have to worry that I'm not reacting enough, and that people will think I'm not taking things seriously enough. Sometimes I react too much, and people tell me that I'm prone to panicking. I can talk to people about almost anything, but I very rarely talk to anyone about a few topics that are way too close to me. So people don't see me connecting with them, only on a superficial level. Sometimes I'm told to open up and relax, that I can open up with them. But then when I open up on my thoughts, I offend people half the time. How am I supposed to open up and also consider other people's feelings while feeling so vulnerable at the same time? And people wonder why I'm so guarded.
We have learned to live our lives by masking because people do not react well to us when not masking. This means that for us there are no "natural" expressions. Everything is a carefully chosen degree of expression. This gets us by a lot of the time, but other times it makes us come across as insincere or trying too hard. What to others can seem like an unemotional state is simply is not sharing, usually because we don't know how much to share and how to share it
I was having similar thoughts with the talk about empathy. Mostly because my particular flavor of ASD lands on being able to empathize almost excessively in terms of feeling what someone else is feeling but not knowing what to do with those feelings so not expressing that empathy or expressing it in a really weird way. I think here it's maybe not talked about because we don't have her internal voice to go on so there's no way of really knowing what she is or isn't feeling. As viewers of a TV show we just have to go on her external voice and what she is showing and saying which is outwardly very emotionless. We can't just ask her like people should ideally be asking you. It would be nice to see that addressed.
I am autistic and had no interest in wednesday as tim burton movies and Addams family iIterations never spraked my interest, I watched it only as several other autistic people told me how relatable it is and I was not disapointed I cant wait for a second season
I’m autistic, diagnosed about a year ago, so there is still so much I am learning about differences in neurotypes. And this video taught me something about neurotypical expectations. When Wednesday was talking to Bianca, it never once struck me as odd that she asked for more info instead of “empathizing” with her. To me, that WAS her empathizing with Bianca.
me too!!! same with the line "is it because you're the only normie..." because for me, that line made complete sense and it meant that she cared and was willing to engage, I never viewed it as her focusing on the facts, that was her being empathetic for me!
@@anacarolinasouza3804 exactly!! The "empathetic" answer of "that sounds rough" sound so superficial/cookie cutter and conversation ending. If you say "I know how you feel" with no explanation, it again sounds fake. If you give an example, it sounds like you're turning the conversation to yourself. So asking more about that person's situation (and with insight too!!! Noticing teacher being only normie could be hard, and noticing Bianca's amulet is supposed to help with her problems) sounds like the best response..
"There's a lot of pressure to conform...To do so would be a betrayal." You made me tear up. I'm autistic and ADHD and have been trying to fit in my whole life, before I found out I was neurodivergent in my late thirties. It's a hard habit to break, and I want better for the next generation. Only by people like you saying--and acting on the belief--that we are valuable as we are, can the stigma change. Thank you.
Neurodivergent here: I am in the ADHD category of this mindset away from the norm: I love the Addams family so much because they love each other being different when many “real” families are quick to judge or shame a person with a different brain. Great Video!!!
That's such a sweet interpretation! I've loved them since the 90s Addams Family Matters movie and I totally get that vibe. ND ppl understand that lesson deeply, even if it's relatable to many.
That is a wonderfull one. It also ties into what Johnathan said on the 1st dive into Wednesday, how Pugsley "gets it," that she just shows emotion differently. If you look at this Pugsley and Gomez having ADHD (can totally see it, trying to get diagnosed for Adult ADHD myself), it really clicks since people with different neurodivergencies can often click and just "get" each other more easily than neurotypical people, even if they are vastly different "types" of divergence. Autism and ADHD tend to click especially, because both are prone to hyperfixations, and don't mind the infodump, or even welcome it.
@@Miss_Camel yes, ADHD is type of neurological disorder. It is neurodevelopmental/neurobehavioral disorder. There ADHD brain differ from typical brains in how they function.
@@piiajarvinen2554 Their*, and I maintain that we’re just significantly more entertaining than everyone else. However, if it’s something I could claim for benefits, I’ll definitely add it to the list!! Sadly, ADHD as I am, and with my severe panic disorder, etc, I’m….still not neurodivergent. I AM mentally ill (No, not bc of ADHD), but I know my lane and how to stay in it..
As a person with a sibling with autism, I really appreciate how you said neurodivergent people just show their emotions differently. My brother is usually quiet and slightly stoic in his facial expressions, but once we bring up something he enjoys like fireworks, games, outer space, or birthday surprises, he lights up and gets loud and has the biggest smile. That also is hard for people to understand, and some extended family members joked he was "psycho" when he loudly surprised my mom with a confetti balloon he made. It's hard for people to understand that he has no boundary to show extreme joy when he's happy. It's also hard when they ask him questions and if he doesn't want to answer...he doesn't answer 😅 It took me 13 years (we're 6 years apart) to finally appreciate my brother for who he is and understand how he sees the world differently, but I'm glad that I did!
Ohhhh I can relate to this so well, though my brother doesn't get loud, but very excited and giggly when it comes to things that he likes. And yes people can get so irritated when he doesn't respond or doesn't make eye contact (which he never does unless asked to). Personally one of the things I always appreciated is how he doesn't care about norms, there is no shame or need to be "appropriate" when we are together. It is soooo comfortable, a bit of a break from society😅
Thanks for pointing this out, the only thing I'm not loving about this Wednesday portrayal as autistic is Wednesday's lack of joy. All the autistic kids I know can be very joyful at times. But OMG yea the not answering questions thing is really challenging.
My best friend is autistic and one of the best things for our friendship was me getting diagnosed with ADHD. While looking into ADHD and comparing it to autism I suddenly realized that the major differences between the two correlated with the biggest tensions in our friendship. Particularly, when I would suddenly cancel or change plans. I never knew why it was such a big deal. To me, changes in plans are usually exciting or a relief, even if I was looking forward to the original plan. And I get extremely frustrated and feel on edge if things are too predictable for too long. So I didn't realize that she actually needs that predictability. Now I do my best to stick to plans and if I might have to change or cancel them I make sure to let her know as early as possible so she has enough time to prepare for that possibility as well
You're a good friend, you actually listened to her needs ! My friends ignored my repeated demands for being contacted by written means (text or e-mail) before calling me, as I hate the unpredictability of a unannounced phone call and get really stressed out by it, especially if it has been a long time since our last contact. Their dismissal of my need is one of the reasons I first stopped having contact with them then stopped being friends with them altogether. Now I have only one friend, not a close one but at least, since she's autistic like me, she doesn't call me without warning (she even doesn't call me at all, we talk via text when not in each other's direct presence and we're happy with that).
@@littlemoth4956 that’s not necessarily true.. it depends on the friendship. My best friend and I both have adhd and it is very common for us to change plans or not follow through with plans. To go weeks without talking and then talk every day for a month. Some people thrive on change and some people don’t. But I wouldn’t consider it a dick move to do what’s best for you and your relationships.
My husband is ADHD and I'm autistic; makes for some interesting struggles but it's great when we can make our differences complement each other! He keeps me flexible and I am his working memory 😁❤
Thank you so much for this message. As an ND person (mostly ADHD with a few extras) I've been suffering from being misunderstood all my life, and I've constantly been told there was something wrong with me and "that's not how people are supposed to behave". I'll never forget the moment we were told in school to never trust anybody who won't look you in the eyes, because "they have something to hide". That really HURT, because I can't even lock eyes with people I'm really close with, much less total strangers. I had to learn to stare at the base of the nose to fake looking other people in the eyes just to not be outcast from society because of this stupid superstition. On the other hand, my first German teacher will always have a very special place in my heart. She once told my parents (who always tried to force me into masking): "Your child spends most of my lessons staring out of the window, doodling patterns on their books or writing page upon page of made-up words into their exercise book. But when I ask them about the lesson, they always know the correct answer. That's fine with me, teaching is not about feeding my own ego by having children hang on my lips, it's about them learning something. And if they learn best by simply being themselves, that's great! So please stop telling them to sit still and look at me. That's not how their brain works, and that's totally okay."
Your German teacher sounds like an angel. I had a math teacher who made me enjoy learning math, because he always added stories, and he showed me an easier way to add and subtract, which greatly helped me with budgeting later on in life. (ADHD also)
@@purple4216 She definitely was! As was your math teacher. It's so frustrating, most children ENJOY learning before they are sent off to school were it is turned into this unbearable chore. Bad enough for NT people, but we all know what 'unbearable chore' does to the average ADHD brain ... :(
I (neurodivergent, probably ADHD and autism, undiagnosed apart from anxiety and depression) also had a great teacher who always encouraged me to keep doing what I love, which was drawing and writing. She once told my mother when I was standing next to them, "Maybe they are not that good at math. But it does not matter, they draw amazingly." Up to this day, she is my source of motivation when I just feel like giving up my dreams.
@@calliesdandelions Thanks for sharing, to both of you! Reading about those ND-friendly teachers gives me hope that one day dealing with ND students in a helpful way will be considered the norm, not a rare bonus!
@Ben Nathrai I sure hope so, too! That teacher always let me scribble in my notebooks. Some of my teachers in 5th and 6th grade did, but she was especially supportive and really did not care much if I had finished all my tasks, I could draw and write whenever I wanted. She always praised my artwork, and kept many copies of it, actually. Her support made me stick to creative things, even when my depression got worse. Nowadays, I am an actor and writer. I don't draw much anymore due to lack of time for it in my schedule but I would love to get back into it at some point. Now back to the topic, I am sure you are going to be an amazing teacher. And I hope it will be more common for teachers to be more ND-supportive in the future, too.
It never occurred to me that Wednesday might be ND, particularly autistic, but it makes sense. The rest of the family are very affectionate towards each other. When Morticia, Gomez, and Pugsley are leaving Nevermore and Pugsley throws his arms around her, while Morticia knows to give Wednesday space... Hyperfocus, while most strongly associated with ADHD, is part of autism, as well. I think she, at first, hugs Enid back because Wednesday understands Enid could have died. But after a few moments, she realizes that she needs the hug as well.
I was thinking that I relate to much of what Wednesday goes through because many of her struggles (and those of neurodivergent people as well) are based on societal or cultural expectations that I relate to just because my folks are immigrants lol. And knowing how different Wednesday’s upbringing was...
I'm AuDHD (Autistic and ADHD) and really like how you handled this! One misconception is that we (Autistic people) don't feel empathy, but we do! The difference is in how we show it. Neurotypical people will typically show it by saying something like "I'm sorry!" or something similar, to show they understand what has happened and empathise. But for a Neurodivergent person, when we want to show empathy, we share a story from our own experiences that is similar to what the person we're talking to shared to show we understand and sympathise/empathise. To Neurotypical folks, this is generally seen as rude, as making the moment and discussion about ourselves instead of about them, but to Neurodivergent folks, it's a sign of understanding and empathy/sympathy. We also tend to have difficulty expression our emotions: Not necessarily entirely emotionless in appearance, or totally flat affectations, we may just have difficulty putting feelings into words or expressing them in a way that Neurotypicals find acceptable. As for the Social Cues, that is also a spectrum of how we handle it. Some can read the Social Cues, and maybe even understand what they are, but the cues don't make sense and so get ignored or disregarded. Some can't recognise the cues, but can tell when they've missed something, Some can't recognise the cues and don't recognise the more subtle expression of lines being crossed. And, due to the consequences of crossing those lines, we're prone to overshare and overexplain everything just to make sure there are no misunderstandings. How we tend to socialise is seen as strange. Our biggest ones, that seem the most common regardless of where we are in the massive spectrum, are Parallel Play (everyone is doing their own thing and just vibing side by side), Info Dumping (talking about our special interests at great length to a friend/whoever we're talking to, and then listening as they do the same), and Penguin Pebbling (I found this cool thing and thought you would like it/this thing made me think of you (gift sharing, but could also be meme sharing)). We tend to Hyperfocus, often to the determent of ourselves and/or others. Wednesday was so focused on the mystery, which drew her interest, that she missed out on some cues of what was going on around her and the damage that was being caused. I know I've been so hyperfocused on something that I didn't eat for that day and barely remembered to drink/take my allergy medication. (I also have trouble sensing hunger and thirst in general, so it was easy to miss out on food and drink for the day and not notice) And then there's Executive Disfunction, which often gets called laziness, but really is our brains refusing to allow our bodies to move to do what we need to do or want to do. We know we have things to do, we want to do them, but we can't. And it get frustrating when people don't understand that. When it comes to touch, we vary. Some love touch, some can't stand touch, and it can even very depending on if we are in a good headspace or nearing a meltdown or shutdown. .....This turned into a massive spiel, sorry! I could go on and on about this topic, and about the various struggles I have in navigating the world (Between my Autism, ADHD, SPD (Sensory Processing Disorder), RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria), Dyspraxia, Chronic Pain Condition (going on 16 years of trying to find a name for it and something to help it), and Semi-Verbal nature (I'm most comfortable when I don't have to speak, but I can speak when needed and can force speech as needed, but have Non-verbal days and go into Non-Verbal shut downs when overwhelmed), but I think I've already shared a bit too much for a simple video about Wednesday and Neurodivergence. So I'll end by saying this: If you know one Neurodivergent person, then you know ONE Neurodivergent person. The spectrum is massive, so even though there are some traits we'll share, there will also be plenty of things that are unique to each Neurodivergent person. All we ask is that you have patience and understanding when working with us, and that you remember we are just as complex as you.
I think the biggest thing everyone misunderstands about Wednesday is that she actually loves her family but is afraid they might die if she loves them after the trauma of her pet scorpion being killed by bullies when she was a little girl.
I'm Autistic, and I appreciate the approach you showed here. Its nice to hear someone talk about the strengths of neurodivergence and not just the shortcomings. I'm over 40 and still struggling with social relationships. I WANT to be around people, and I just can't figure out how to make that happen, even though many folks say I'm friendly and fun to be around. It's still impossible to go past friendship or hold a job. It shouldn't be this hard. Just one point of difference in what you talked about in the video. We do have and experience the normal range of human emotions, we just don't express them or show them in ways neurotypical folks recognize. Sometimes we can't identify or label exactly WHAT we're feeling, but we do feel it...sometimes very little, sometimes too much!
Agree! I think the emotions thing is one of the most absolutely misunderstood things about us. And while I do think Jonno might have had a slip of the tongue on that one, it never ceases to astound me how people get us so confused with one of the main characteristics fundamental to ASPD. I guess it's that difficult for some people to understand that *feeling* something & *showing feelings* 💯 do not have to coincide 😶
I think there may be a disconnect in us between the feeling an emotion and the sharing of that emotion that neurotypical people do not have. When talking to a stranger I do not see any reason to share my emotional state, but with friends it's like sharing anything else, you share your joy to bring joy to others and you share your pain to show empathy with another's pain. At least that's how it feels to me. I'm almost 40 and only discovered I'm neurodivergent within the last couple of years. It's weird coming to terms with stuff that I struggled with all my life turning out to be just my brain being wired differently
I really relate to the trouble with emotions. One thing I noticed when I started therapy, the first therapist I spoke with always did that whole 'how are you feeling?' or 'what have you been feeling?' and I hated it, because unless there was something significantly out of the norm I didn't know how to answer so it was always 'fine' regardless because I don't know how to describe what I'm feeling most times (I learned it's called alexithymia). So for a number of reasons I found a different therapist and she actually gives me pointed questions about my week and actual experiences that I could then work on extrapolating my internal experiences from and analyzing them like I would a character in a book. Somehow that makes it way easier in retrospect to figure out what I was feeling at a certain time or why I've reacted certain ways, and helps me kind of recognize similar situations when they come up. Showing feelings for me is super confusing sometimes because like I want my friends to know I care about their shitty day or their amazing experience or whatever, but I never know what to do or say. So I guess I just try to be there, or message more often with inconsequential things so they know I'm thinking about them, or send random gifts if I see something I think they'd like. I guess it works, but when someone's having a bad experience, like Wednesday said "to be honest I wish I cared more" and could empathize better.
@@echoc7213 I really relate to that. I usually either say something along the lines of "as always" or with friends and family it's usually tired (i have narcolepsy, so tired is my usual state of being). I do have a lot of trouble identifying and expressing emotions. I'm also terrible at comforting people emotionally.
My therapist recommended CinemaTherapy to me. I have binged all those videos and now am binging these. I am neurodivergent (ADHD) and diagnosed (along with the ADHD) with clinical depression, GAD, and CPSTD. Y'all's videos have helped me sooooo much--keep up the fantastic work!
I just wanted to point out that when Enid says, “Because that’s what friends do. They don’t have to be asked. And the fact that you don’t know that says everything” - that’s a mess. People are not mindreaders. They don’t know the specific needs of others. They do have to be asked. Because every brain is different. Every person is different. Everyone has different needs, even in similar situations. What is affirming and helpful for one person can actually be damaging to another. We need to normalizing asking for what we need, and hearing others when they do.
People definitely need to ask first. I HATE surprises so if I had that happen to me after a long day, I would have been very dismissive or furious with Enid as well. Not everyone needs a party, surprises, or even a ton of people around. I get that Enid is a werewolf, wolves value the pack, but she should have realized others aren't that same. that also says a lot about her.
Excellent point! And this makes me ponder further if Enid's character was supposed to say this as a werewolf, since their alertness to bodily cues would possibly be more heightened than other species of people.
Also worth noting that these are 16yo girls here. They're not gonna be the picture of emotional competence on either side of the stain-glass window 😂 Enid comes to realize after that outburst that what she said (in the heat of a moment after she nearly died multipme times!) was wrong.
as both a goth person and an undiagnosed autistic person I relate hard to Wednesday, especially this iteration. I always found it hard to relate to autistic characters until Wednesday, but she quite literally speaks my language with our shared morbid interests and the way we communicate. The way we both say "I love you" is insults and threats of violence and death. To say I feel seen by Wednesday as a show and character would be an understatement.
YES! I'm goth & autistic. Watching Wednesday was like looking in a mirror. I don't catch all these details because, to me, she acts normally. I don't pick up on the social cues the other characters are giving her either, and she always responds similarly to how I would have, so hearing the non autistic perspective on Wednesday is amusing.
I appreciate you making this video and going out of your way to be nuanced, informed, and respectful of the community. I can't wait to possibly see more videos like this in the future! Autistics aren't a monolith, and I feel the video did a great job highlighting the type of autistic presentation shown by Wednesday. I do want to mention for anyone who happens to be reading this comment that autistic people can also be hyper-empathetic, cartoonish levels of expressive, very very tuned into social cues, etc, and those who mask in such a way that they appear neurotypical to many. And each of these aspects of autistic presentation can vary in either extreme, changing day to day, person to person.
Thanks! That's the comment I wanted to write. I do know a few autiadadler and I have the most meaningful, deepest and earnest conversations with them. Or people who fight/fought depression. It's just not the small talk. And they are straight forward, which often is considered "rude". I appreciate it. And honestly: I hate that flat small talk that neurotypicals seem to like...
Thank you for this comment! I was just diagnosed about a year ago at 49 and I'm not sure if it's because of being a woman (apparently we tend to be 'better' at masking), but I'm definitely on the hyper-empathetic, very expressive, very attuned socially, etc. end of things. My markers are more things like my intense special interests, a need for structure and systems, social anxiety (possibly from being so hyper-aware in social interactions), executive dysfunction issues, texture sensitivity, etc. But yeah, we can all be sooo different than one another (just like neurotypicals!) and while I REALLY LOVE the character of Wednesday and the show, about the most she and I have in common is our similar sense of style (I'm a goth) and our hyper-focus on our areas of interest. Still, as with many other autistic people I've known, there's still more of a familiarity there with her personality than with neurotypical people and so she ultimately still feels like 'family' and someone I'd really get along with easily.
As a person with High functioning autism this makes me feel so good to know that some people actually acknowledge the fact that not all autistic people are obviously autistic. Even after 4 years of having my diagnosis, people still easily forget that my brain works differently and I have resorted to making a point to subtly mention my autism quite often just so they remember that I don't always understand what they mean or feel. I've almost lost my best friend because I don't know how I'm supposed to maintain a relationship, and they needed constant validation that I cared.
@@JustCallMeM hey, just wanted to let you know that majority stoped using high functioning and low functoning labels. since it's not always that easy. they now usually refer to using the terms high and low support needs. since it can change from day to day how you are able to function. like if your not having alot of spoons one day you might have more support needs then when you have a better day with alot of spoons.^^ you can use what you want of course depends what kinda label you feel more comfy with just wanted to inform that the labels high and low support needs exist too (i don't mean to "correct" you or anything like that. so hope it does not come off like that.)
I was diagnosed with autism a few months ago as an adult. As a kid I was asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, "a human" I said. Something I have realized as an adult that resonates with many ND people is that "I enjoy being alone but I hate being lonely". It's one of the main struggles that I have with my autism that is made worse by my CPTSD, I struggle to open up to people along with them not wanting to do the same with me. I watched Wednesday last month to see what all the hype was in the autistic community and I loved it. I'm very new to viewing myself as autistic and related so much to the hyperbolic character of Wednesday, my form of torturing my siblings involved hiding things when they displeased me rather than waterboarding though 😅
I'm neurodivergent (ASD and ADHD) and I always loved Wednesday. When I watched the series some scenes (like when Enid changes room after the date/girl's night) it hurt me and I didn't understood why. Then when you explained that scene and you told "neurodivergent people feel it but they don't know how to describe it" (something like that) I almost cried
Kudos to Tim burton for letting her have feelings sometimes. People are sometimes scared to make Wndsday have any turmoil ever because they think it will take away her wndsday-ness.
Thats all about wednesday, she'll challenge who you are and why you are. She gives so much shit, she cares to share, she bothers to point at things. She thinks she is an outsider because she doesnt show it in the same way.
As a neurodivergent person adhd ( some Dr's have had some suspension about autism), the thing about Wednesday is that she is empathetic she does feel but not in the traditional way. Social cues are hard, and a lot of my persona is preppy in a melodramatic kind of way. But I learned to be over dramatic because I was taught that emotional flatness isn't enough cue to know what you actually mean. So I over emphasize my emotions for others.its not me being fake. It's just the times I grew up in that they emphasized cbt and teaching kids the "right way" of emoting. If it were up to me, I'd be more flat. Not like Wednesday per se but somewhere close. Again the emotion is there for Wednesday it's just that she's not over verbalize or emoting. But the care and empathy is 100% there.
Yeah! For me, it's totally the same way. Growing up, I always thought that you're only human if you feel emotion, whether good or bad, and as a response to that, I try to over-amplify whatever I feel to others, because I've always been "different" from people. I want to be a part of all of their connections and relationships so badly that I end up covering my emotions with an over-dramatic mask, ironically keeping people from wanting to be friends with me.
Being confused about why someone is mad at you is such a horrible feeling because so many people don't want to explain because they think you should already know. Its so horrible and it happens too much for me.
As an introvert, thank you for this! One of my best friends is a huge extrovert. It took her awhile to understand that my tolerance for socializing is limited, and has nothing to do with not wanting to be around her. If my "social battery" is low, and she wants to see me, we get together at one of our houses and do a movie marathon, rather than a bar or party.
When it comes to the experience of empathy, as an autistic, i can def relate to Wednesday. I have never 'put myself in another's shoes' to feel empathy. I am interested in the facts and experiences of others, and I respect and empathise for them. Even though some have called that "shallow" - for me, it makes that I'm able to empathise with everyone. I've seen that often, people are only able to empathise with people if they can imagine it happening to *them*, and fail to empathise when they cant, like for homeless people, minority groups, etc. Whereas I can't make that distinction. I'm not saying my empathy is inherently better, just that neurotypical empathy has its flaws as well. And that it can be frustrating when your type of empathy is pathologized or completely dismissed.
Iirc this is called "cognitive empathy"! And in my opinion it's extremely valuable, probably even greatly undervalued, because while it may not be the same as the instinctive emotional empathy many experience, like you say, it can be more flexible when you're trying to understand people who are very different from yourself. I think both kinds of empathy are valuable for different reasons and in different situations. It's a great example of why neurodiversity is overall a good thing.
@@studioyokaiYes! I have this! Thank you! I've known for some time that even empathy is a spectrum, but I wasn't aware there were actually terms for different types. I do enjoy learning new things🤗
For me I was too emotionally empathetic, For my own protection I ended up becoming more logically empathetic. So that I can understand the struggles that people go through and I can have empathy for them but I don't feel for them. I have to have that separation because I can't solve the world's problems. If I care too much then I can't function.
Flat affect, paranoia, and even the visions she have could all point to schizophrenia as well. I think it's ambiguous for a reason and needs to stay that way. Lovely video!
I want to make it clear that I was using it as an example that you cannot make an accurate diagnosis of anything unless you're a mental health professional, and that these very common and vague signs and symptoms could be anything.
As someone with inattentive ADD who was diagnosed in her mid-twenties I spent my whole childhood and still up to this day being made to feel that I‘m Not enough. Sentences like „if you would just focus you could be so much Better“ or „stop wasting your potential and concentrate in what you‘re doing“ and to this day I want to scream at those people (mostly teacher and family) that I KNOW and I would if only I could and That constant criticism and disappointment wears on me to this day. Because I would have given up literally everything to be neurotypical Just once and have people be apprechiative and proud
My mom got offended one time that I commented that our family is more like the Addams family than a "normal" family. My entire immediate family are various flavors of neurodivergent, and we're okay with being "weird" together
In my family, WEIRD is a compliment. Also, I work in special ed in middle school. More than once, when a student complained about not being normal, someone on the staff in the program all say in one way or another, "what is normal?" Our job isn't to change our students, but help them become the very best person they can be. For example, asking for a break during class. This seems very simple to some people, but can be hard for others. I like to think that we help our students find their voice, if that makes sense.
Just a thought as an autistic person, I feel like the hug scene at least from my viewpoint would have been first hug as an automatic she is running toward me with her arms out, social cues say hug is appropriate, therefore hug even though it’s uncomfortable. Second hug was looking at her face and seeing “oh that wasn’t enough, she’s still upset” more hug as a kind of I must fix my friend thing. I really liked your viewpoint and I am very excited for season 2.
I saw Wednesday reciprocating the hug as recognizing that Enid needed it. Wednesday didnt fully engage. She was very aware that her hands were bloody. Yes, I cried.
Wow, this puts the scene where the girls fight into context for me. I've had scenario's where I honestly to this day do not know what I did wrong. This person new from the get go that I am autistic but I guess they didn't realize that I just didn't see or feel what they were seeing or feeling. It's really frustrating when something like that happens, especially if they can only scream at you 'you know what you did wrong' and not believing you when you say 'no, honestly, I just told you X, Y and Z and I don't see what is the problem.'
That reminds me of that meme, where "Unwritten Societal Rules" is a volume several feet high, and the "What's Actually Written and Codified" is this skimpy little pamphlet. Like wth, we're not mind readers, just tell us already!
@@maskedmallard537 yeah, the worst part is that before we even started dating I had explained to her that I am autistic and what that means to me and that clear communication is important to me and all that. I even gave her an example and said I'd rather you call me an asshole than not tell me what's wrong. I guess she missed the last part XD
The hug makes sense because Wednesday had just gone through a severely traumatic event. I don’t hug ordinarily but if something has happened to break down my sense of safety to that degree I am far more likely to accept a hug from whoever offers it. It has to be to a point of dissociation almost, but that’s where Wednesday is. Enid represents a safe and familiar presence by this time in the story. The blood no doubt also makes her more reassuring. ;) Make no mistake, Jonno… we understand the emotions of neurotypicals EXACTLY AS MUCH as they understand ours. Such that both sides find it hard to believe the other is telling the truth. “How can you not like hugs and eye contact?” “How can you tell they’re mad if they can’t be bothered to freaking say so?” We can’t believe they have so little respect and keep leaping to conclusions, they can’t believe we’re so rude and can’t put two and two together. We can’t believe they talk for so long about nothing, they can’t believe we can talk for so long about one thing. I could go on and on about these human : space alien relations but you get the point. And now I know another reason why I loved this show so much. Also they had a great Uncle Fester and Pugsley is too adorable to be allowable by natural law. And as odd as it is to admit it, I was weirdly hypnotized by the almost magical way Morticia’s boobs were always so perfectly set in her dress. The costume department should be proud. And speaking of magic… a psychologist (the one good one I ever saw myself) taught me about active listening. I think more Autistics should learn this. It’s like a missing piece of the puzzle. Much of social interaction is unnecessarily oblique to what is actually intended such that it’s like being expected to compete in a game with no rules presented. Active listening is a system we can actually learn with practice. If more of social interaction was presented as a system that can be applied, I think we would be able to do better. Considering it works the opposite of how we usually come across, it’s very helpful indeed where you need to counteract your natural tendency to route back to a familiar subject. You can actually make people feel heard instead of the opposite. Very helpful as a parent.
I was so proud of myself when I had this epiphany ALL ON MY OWN! Concepts like active listening are usually things I need to have explained to me, but for this one, it just hit me one day. It was shortly after I had one of the MOST frustrating conversations I can ever remember having, to the point where it didn't even end, we both just walked away. But I couldn't let it because I so often felt this kind of frustration when speaking to people so I let my mind analyze it until it just clicked: neither of us had been *listening* to the other person! And I realized this had been a pattern of mine. That's when I began actively shutting-up & just listening or allowing others to lead the conversation. It was truly revolutionary. Still don't like small talk, but conversations have gotten sooooo much more satisfying.
omg. i learned what it is just now and realised that’s what has been hurting me my hole life - active listening. especially with my mother. i listen so intently, because for me it’s very disrespectful - not to be fully engaged - , picturing all she is saying. and she talks in so irritating way, without conclusions, i don’t understand usually what’s the point of this conversation. all my intense listening and picturing the situation go in vane. i always rage on her because of it. all my energy looses for not showing her my rage. l just realised why i got so tired when i small-talk with her. omg. i must relax my active listening
I dated someone who was autistic, and his dad and sister were as well ( all clinically diagnosed as so ). They all all displayed these traits in different ways, but I loved being around them because of these differences. I wonder if I too might be on the spectrum because of certain behaviors and lack of understanding human interactions at times, but I've never been diagnosed. One of the most difficult things about being in the relationship though was that my boyfriend never saw his differences as beautiful and valuable. He knew multiple languages, had such a beautiful eye for macro insect photography and saw the world in such a lovely way, but he felt that feeling of being "other" being different more than he saw all his amazingness.
I am Autistic and I got my diagnosis when I was 28 years old. This video made me cry a little because it made me remember my school life and how completely different I was, without understanding what was going on with me. Now I work as a Gestalt Psychotherapist and one of my focus is to help people with Autism understand themselves. Thank you so much for your videos, I really enjoy all of them ☺💜
I’m AuDHD, and just last night read a paper from 2022 showing that autistic people don’t necessarily have deficits in social communication, but that problems arise from interactions between people with mixed neurotypes (e.g., autistic vs. non-autistic), through the Double Empathy Problem. Essentially, it boils down to a mismatch in expectations and ability to code-switch or otherwise adapt to people with differing communication styles. In fact, in this study (and in the experience on myself and many others commenting on it), using the neurotypical deficit model, it was the neurotypicals in the study with the deficits in communication, not the autists, who got along with each other better than neurotypicals got along with each other in non-mixed situations. Because of the way we’re processing information so differently, we may struggle to pick up on or to express neurotypical social cues, but we’re usually able to adapt (because we have to in order to survive), whereas non autistic people are more likely to be weirded out by us immediately and never attempt to bridge that empathy gap. This has always been the key difference in my interactions with others, now that I think about it: whether or not the person I’m talking with vibes with me, it comes down to whether they judge me by their own expectations of me or adapt their expectations of me to fit me as I actually am, which determines the rapport and success of our interaction. Side note: Wednesday’s reaction to the surprise party wasn’t as much a lack of understanding the social cues and as issue of rigidity and perseveration making the cues she definitely got an unwelcome distraction. She missed the clues before the reveal, but the reaction to the reveal was negative because she wasn’t prepared for the change in plans, and wasn’t ready to disengage from her task. I had a similarly bad reaction when my parents surprised me with a new car (pre-diagnosis) because in the moment, all I could see was the unexpected loss of my best Autobot friend of ten years, not the joy of the 17-year-newer model of my beloved Civic. I even made a joke as we first arrived that it had better not be for me because I’d never give up my buddy as we first arrived, because I was initially told it was for my dad, and (I thought) the idea of it being for me was hilariously ridiculous… when I saw my mom’s face, I realized it was a surprise for me, and then I basically had a mini meltdown/panic episode while I tried to process the loss, the gratitude, and the pain I was causing and unable to stop causing with every passing second. Even after explaining what was going on in my head years later, my neurotypical parents still can’t quite understand it.
"I wish I cared a little more." That line resonates with me quite well. I tend to enter situations - every situation I can - with the mindset of "Approach with apathy and you'll never be disappointed." Although it helps with my anxiety and such, keeping me from panicking and worrying, I get chastised for not showing enough emotion. Thus, I've been dubbed "the quiet kid" at gatherings, among various other, harsher titles. "I wish I cared a little more." It's not melancholic. It's not self-pity. It's not making oneself be what others are. It's simply a statement. Not caring, though her and my norm, seems not to be the norm for others. It's difficult to operate as a knife among forks or fork among knives. The metaphor is interchangeable. I forgot what my point was here, or of there even was one, but my words still stand.
@@Touay. I totally understand because I deal with that often enough myself. But if the majority of people were like us then that probably wouldn't be a problem. They are Called Neuro-typical and we are called Neuro-Divergent. So their brains are typical or the norm and ours are divergent from that. But what is normal is based on what "most" people are. Most being more then 50%. If they were more like us and less like them then we would be neurotypical and they would be neurodivergent with no change in the behaviors. It's really simply a matter of numbers. There may be more that are "the norm" then not. But there are still quite a large number of us. Many masking all day long trying to appear "normal" and so we may not know it until you get close enough to them. We aren't broken just different. The point being that the key is to find people like you who will accept your differences. That's what I've had to do. Once you find your "tribe" so to speak, it's a whole lot easier to accept yourself for who you are. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference.
@@Touay. Glad I could be of help. I've been where you are believe me and much appreciated when I was given encouragement from others. I hope you find your people and things get better for you ✨️
As someone with Aspergers IRL, I love this analysis and the messages in this video!Thank you for informing people about Autism and explaining what Autism is and how people can better interact with them. Growing up, I had to deal with extreme lonliness from constant social rejection or social neglect from my Neurotypical peers. Whenever I tried to be myself around my Neurotypical peers, I always end up emotionally hurt, misunderstood, people misinterpret me all the time, people think that I'm arrogant or selfish when I'm actually not, or people are scared off by my tendency to fixate on my special interests in a more intense, passionate, analytical way than most people would. I always fantasized about having the kind of best friend who would always be there for you and always stand up for you no matter what, and it was like a fairytale, like something from a children's book about friendship that was real for my Neurotypical peers and my Neurotypical little sister whose positive social experiences sound like an absolute fantasy to me, but never for me. I still want to experience those positive social experiences and even find a husband whom I don't have to mask around, who I can express my full emotions around without them telling me that I'm doing something socially wrong somehow, and who will accept me for me. But despite my negative social experiences brought on by my Aspergers, I am quite gifted when it comes to academics and art to the point where most people who meet me IRL consider me a genius. But when that genius comes at the expense of normal social experiences and a normal social life, sometimes I wonder if it is really worth it or if I would be happier if I was born Neurotypical.
Seeking out other neurodivergents has been rewarding for me personally. I am either ADHD or AuADHD (leaning toward the second one) so I can be a bit bubbly at times for some people, but seeking out more NDs has made my kids feel less isolated for sure... And I am starting to feel it as well although it is hard to make friends as a mom. Good luck to you!
PS We can't choose our traits and happiness is kind of fleeting anyway... NTs have lots of things to be unhappy about too. You might like the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, about choosing what we will struggle with in life.
All of what you said hit close to home for me (I was diagnosed late last year with Asperger's) and it just damn hurts but everytime I make a friend I end up hoping that "they are the one"
The hug gets me every time. I know it’s not the point of this video but I’ve been a massive fan of the Addams family since I was about 6. Read hundreds of the comics, watched the 64-66 tv series numerous times, seen every movie they’ve ever made with the Addams family title, and the Wednesday series might be my favorite so far since the original series because they continued the original theme of explore different ways of living and love while showing and bringing awareness to different issues of the day. 11/10 for me
I have an asperger's personality and thanks to this series, Wednesday Addams has become one of my favorite movie characters. I really relate to her. Mostly it's how she's really intelligent, but hides emotions a lot because she doesn't know what to do with them.
This! I never saw it this way... Not knowing what to do with all these emotions. So true. For me expressing some emotions would demand a theatrical skill - it is just not natural to me to react to some things like other people do.
My son is 5 years old and lvl 3 non verbal autistic. I cried at the part you said how lonley being different can be. Something that has been on my mind for him from day 1 after official diagnosis. His communication is by echoing movie quotes to me.. lol he is into lion king right now so when he is upset he says "run away momma (instead of simba), run away and never return".... or "you disgust me" (from live action lion king). I hope he finds kind-hearted friends in his life ❤
Autistic here, but level 1. However, I had delayed speech as a child. I always quoted movies. Movies are such a big thing for so many of us regardless of our diagnostic level and I think it's because movies help us study human interactions and get better at them.
Have you heard of copy and paste behaviors? I was never non-verbal but am autistic and have come across it as a way of explaining how I approach some social situations. If a situation is close enough to a previous one, I can take what worked for me in that one and copy/paste it into this new interaction. From the outside, that sounds similar to using movie lines to communicate: "the character in the movie said this when they felt sad and I feel sad now so I will express myself the way they did"
I had this experience with one of my students. I was told ahead of time that he was on the spectrum, but it was as a "warning" to accept bad behavior. Luckily, I had prior experience because I have family, friends, and their kids who were at different levels. This young man was very organized, always did everything the same way when he came to put his stuff down, and was exceptionally bright with great questions and conversation about the material. He was just very business-like. It was during Covid year, and we had to have an assignment daily, so I had one content day, then one notes day alternating. He hated the notes part and didn't want to do it because it's not part of his process. So he showed frustration the same way a gifted student does. He didn't see value in it. I explained each time that we had to turn in something daily for attendance and that it didn't have to be word-for-word long notes, maybe just bullet points for new things he learned. I did get buy-in, and that's the only "behavior" thing i noticed. But I can see where people would see that as defiance or talking back. As I said. I was lucky. My nephew is severely autistic and my brother and sister-in-law were really good about learning how to help him and relate to him. The student's mom kept apologizing and saying, "I know he's a handfull," but I just reassured her that he was fine and that I liked him.
I am neurodivergent--specifically ADHD. I know throughout my life I have trouble relating to people. I can see it in their body language that we're not jiving, but I can't always figure out why. Sometimes I relate better with others who are neurodivergent as well--our conversations will easily jump around all over the place. Having said that, I have a lot of friends, both neurodivergent and not, who care for me for who I am. This was a great video!
Would be nice if you analyze Enid next. Lots of people have read her as having ADHD. And folks who are AuDHD (like I suspect I am) have heavily identified with both Wednesday and Enid. Great video!
Wonderful video on autism. Thank you, for bringing it more to light. Just one thing I’ll mention that I’ve come across many therapists believing is that autistic people lack empathy. Most often that is not the case. In fact, we are extremely sensitive and affected by other peoples pain. It’s overwhelming and we don’t know how to express it. Which is where the misconception comes from. And it’s hurtful to hear and be misunderstood in that way…especially from professionals. Once again thank you for your videos. I always enjoy them 😊
Agreed! My son has ASD and he is empathetic but had to be taught how emotions play out on the face. When very young he would laugh so hard when another kid got hurt and cried... his reason though was because he honestly thought the kid was making a weird face to be funny and had a cool trick of making their eyes water. Once he learned what it meant, he knew laughing at that situtaion was not appropriate so he adjusted. I think if more NTs realized how much effort and thought goes into NDs trying to do things "our way," they would try meeting NTs in the middle more. And that's where NTs can lack empathy for NDs. I'm so sorry therapists have been under that impression of ASDs lacking empathy! Being misunderstood and underestimated like that -by a professional in particular- is probably so incredibly frustrating as well as hurtful. All piled on top of you trying to process the other person's emotions. That's a lot.
I know I am neurodivergent and unofficially on the spectrum. People have always been odd to me. I remember being a kid on the playground trying to understand the strange customs and behaviors from my peers. At four years old, I told my mom I was worried about my career because I couldn't pick between being an author or an artist. I thought I was really good at masking, but my friends knew from the start.
I’m neurodivergent due to growing up disabled and learning to navigate life in a different way. I had moments where I really resonated with Wednesday, having the feeling of, “This is who I am. I’m not going to apologize for being myself.” And it felt empowering. Wednesday has her faults, but she’s also a good example of owning who you are.
It really touched me when you described how at the moment where Wednesday could have expressed sympathy, she went straight for the next question, (or factual inquiry, shall I say,) and that's okay! Simply by having the conversation, she demonstrates, how much she cares.❤️🔥
I’m autistic and would like to offer a gentle correction. Firstly, thank you for continuing to promote the message of "different, not broken" when it comes to autistic and otherwise neurodivergent people. It's clear that you're passionate about helping neurotypical people better understand and engage with their neurodiverse peers. That said, please consider moving away from language that suggests autistic people lack empathy/emotions/intuition, etc. (examples in this video include 2:36, 7:10, 11:18, though it also happened in CT's Lilo & Stitch episode). This contradicts your core message by measuring autistic people against a neurotypical baseline, which is common in the deficit model of disability. In reality, we are often deeply (sometimes excessively) emotional and empathetic. We just experience and express it differently than most neurotypical people have learned to recognize. For a long time autistic people have been described as lacking "theory of mind," but neurotypical people struggle just as much to understand our internal worlds. As you hint at around 9:30, it's not a one-way deficit - it's two people being on such different wavelengths that neither one intuitively understands what the other is trying to express.
As a neurodivergent person, I deeply appreciate this video for the validation and kindness shown toward neurodivergent folks. I'm gifted/HSP/whatever one might wanna call everything-is-intense-and-I'm-smart-in-a-way-that-is-hard (like, finished college at age 17 and also have a lot of behaviors and thought patterns that are in a Venn diagram with ADHD and ASD). Most of my close friends are also neurodivergent and/or come from other countries, and I find that those folks share the feeling of being "other" and not completely getting social cues as expected. I do observe that often people think neurodivergent folks are antisocial, but in truth a lot of us are highly social and empathetic but also don't react the same way neurotypical folks do in any given situation. I think in general a lot of neurodivergent people I know are actually more thoughtful, kind, patient, and loving than neurotypical people because we know what it is like to be bullied and outcast.
This is beautiful! I love the positivity and acceptance here. I’m Autistic + ADHD, and didn’t know the name for my experiences until the last year or so (I’m in my 20s). A lot of this information is true for a lot of autistic people, but autism is a spectrum, and all of us present differently. Oftentimes autistic women present differently than this, because we tend to mask more often than men do. For me, I can be very excitable and show my emotions when I feel safe, but when I’m at work or social events, I do often go more flat affect, because of extreme social anxiety and sensory overstimulation. I (like many autistics) have extreme emotional empathy, but I don’t have as much cognitive empathy, which means I feel it viscerally when my loved ones are hurting, but I often can’t predict their thoughts like neurotypicals seem to be able to. I’m proud of my neurodivergence, and I love seeing positive representation!!
my best friend is autistic, & this helped me understand so much. i am definitely the "soft & sensitive" one in the relationship & never understood how/why she wasn't. thank you for this!! 💚
Thank you for this careful, thoughtful analysis. Love your videos! Just a little note: Some people with ASD do show emotion. It's not a mandatory symptom. The way they show it is likely to still be somewhat atypical (some are quite good at masking, though).
I am on the spectrum. In Wednesday's interaction with Thornhill (as well as some others) I can't quite tell whether she is trying to connect or to antagonise. She would probably recognise that her blunt approach can alienate others and cause fear and discomfort even if she can't always tell which emotion she provoked specifically. I also feel like in real life, the social pressure to conform, to twist yourself to the expectations of others can help create a facsimile of social social skills even though it' more like applying the rules from a code you don't understand. Wednesday's detachment is (from my experience) unusual and typically Addams.
And well being in a family that supports AND are divergent themselves and expect oddness... That seems to work out similarly in real life. Supported autistics in autistic and ND families seem to thrive compared to their peers who have to mask/struggle in their personal AND public lives.
This was a helpful breakdown and very relatable. I haven’t seen the show but I’ve seen the “I’ve really tried…” clip of Wednesday & her friend several times. Always makes me tear up and reminds me of a high school friendship that fell apart, and how it may have felt through her eyes. (Me being more like Wednesday) Fabulous acting, and fabulous analysis. Ty as always.
When trying to explain my neurodivergence to others (high functioning spectrum) I compare it to emotional/social dyslexia. It isn't that I do not feel emotions, I just have trouble recognizing them, both my own as well as those of others.
I am neurodivergent but I really like hugs, since I usually don't understand verbal queus, the non verbal parts of relationships are easier for me to relate to
This hits hard, a lot I needed to hear. I am hearing impaired and visually dependent (despite visually impaired/ legally blind). This seems to mean that I can be considered neurodivergent. There’s a lot I had to learn socially growing up. I wanted social interaction and to feel normal as much as possible but evidently always hung on the fringe or forever outcast. Still learning, in that way but also how to stand my ground and patiently show others or remind them that I can’t always be expected to carry the weight of normal people expectations. My workload, due to neurodivergency and disability, is already higher than average normal persons. I want to be normal, to do what normal people can, and some things I can but need compassion when I can’t. Just show someone compassion/kindness. Thats all we need.
You almost got me when you said trying to conform would be a betrayal to ourselves. I've been diag' as neurodivergent a couple of months ago. My whole life had been a succession of people telling me I should show more emotions, show more interest to the people around me or that I'm weird in the way I think/act/talk. Thank you for saying we're not broken because we are neurodivergents!
One thing is that we do feel things fully. We feel emotions, we feel empathy. It's the emoting that doesn't come naturally. Facial expressions are hard work and exhausting. Speaking in a monotone with resting face and clinical language isn't beamcause we don't feel things. It's just a change in how we express them
I think the focus on direct speech as an autistic trait is a case of being biased by American culture. Dutch and Nordics would mostly consider a lack of superficiality as a way to show that you already believe there is a connection.
Thank you for clarifying that Neurodivergent is not a synonym for autistic but simply a type of it. I have ADHD and CP which is a neurodivergent movement disorder.
Well... I didn't expect to end up in the rabbit hole of questioning my neurotype today, but here I am 2 hours after watching this video buried in tabs of articles on autism. I'm now reanalyzing my entire life through a different lens because the more I look, the more I find that parts which never made sense before are kind of falling into place. If this is anything like my past identity explorations, I'll be in label limbo for months, but many thanks to the video and commenters for making me think about this. Even if it's an invalid connection, I'm learning a lot about myself in the process.
Hi! This is a great video and I love the examination of people with autism in the Wednesday series. Here are just a couple of small notes on language regarding neurodivergence that might help everyone! *We usually try to use person-first language, ie: instead of saying someone is autistic we say “a person with autism”. *”Normal” is a word we tend to steer away from, instead saying things like “neurotypical”. The word “normal” is really loaded in the neurodiverse community. *There’s a common misconception that folks with autism lack emotion or empathy, but very often nothing could be further from the truth. We just don’t always connect emotionally or express emotion in a neurotypical way. This video is a great examination of how people who are neurodiverse sometimes struggle to interact with their friends and peers, and love the videos here at Mended Light in general!
As a fellow autistic person, I can definitely agree with the last point about emotions but as for the first two I don’t really care if someone says I’m not normal because I know I never will be and I don’t want to be. Some people don’t like the word normal but I think rather than trying to erase it from our language, we should focus on removing the negative stigma around not being normal. Also ‘person with autism’ means the same thing as autistic. Autistic is just quicker. I find when people say person with autism it seems to imply they think I shouldn’t want to be called autistic as if being autistic is different from being a person. Just my personal views on the matter, no obligation to agree of course. :)
as someone with ADHD and ASD, i 100% agree with all of this!! ^^^ i also wanted to add that some autistic people are more hyperempathetic (like me!), some are hypoempathetic or have no empathy at all, some are hyperempathetic towards animals/inanimate objects/etc but not people or vice versa, etc - it's a very diverse thing. i've seen some people headcanon Enid as hyperempathetic autistic and Wednesday as hypoempathetic autistic and i can definitely see it ^__^
@@fluffyvoid2619 I agree with you. I'm not diagnosed autistic (my director believes I'm high functioning, I just haven't bothered getting a diagnosis yet) but I do have a physical disability diagnosed and I prefer being called a disabled person over a person with a disability. I see no reason to avoid being called what I am.
*I prefer autistic. For me autism is not a condition, it's just a part of my identity. I am autistic, just as I am a nerd, a software developer and polyamorous. Of course this labeling is pretty personal, but most autistic people I know rather use autist or autistic than person with autism. Person with autism feels belittling and overcomplicated to me. *Normal vs neurotypical or allistic is a good point. Normal emphasizes how we are different from allistic people in a dehumanizing way rather than a descriptive way. *So true, it's hard sometimes. I can be totally overwhelmed by emotion and just not know what to do with it. When my partner tries to help me by asking how I feel I'm like: I don't know? I feel a lot. Mostly BLAAGH and a little of BLBLBLrrr, I know it doesn't make sense but I don't know what I feel, just that it's a lot XD apparently that's called alexithymia, which is common for autistic people.
There is debate whether to use "person with autism" or "autistic person". As an autistic person, I generally prefer "autistic person" but it simply depends on individual preference.
As someone who's ND (ADHD, plus there's been some talk about looking into Aspergers as a possibility) this show was....a gut punch but in a good way. I basically used the show to explain some of my quirks to my partner. Though I tend to be better at masking than Wednesday is (But I compare it to AI art, it's not perfect and there's always something a bit off) and it kinda helped him understand where I'm coming from on a lot of things. That it's not a lack of caring. I care...I just don't show it like "normal" people do. But I do show it.
I'll be using this comparison too. I've used the original Spock and the newest series Spock as well. The scenes that Ethan Peck's Spock has with his fiancée have been a source of treasure. They feel deeply and show it, although differently.
As someone who has been plagued by my autism my entire life, to me the most unrealistic part of this entire series wasn't the monsters, it was that people still tried to connect with Wednesday, that they didn't give up on her and tried to understand and give her a place amongst them.. that simply doesn't happen in real life sadly. Those of us who are different are outcasts, ghosts, or even subject for mockery
Wednesday broke and healed my heart at the same time, as an autistic person that still longing and working on my late diagnoses. It was difficult to see her struggles, things that i´ve understood and past throug, but it was harder to see how people could make room for her being and getting better on human connection with love and it wasn´t a option for most of my life. The hardest part, on my perspective, on being autistic (with or without diagnoses): people neuronormative respecting theirs needs and at the same time respecting yours, even without understanding it too much. People are often easy to judge and misjudge others.
I just discovered that I got adhd and i don't know what to feel or to think about it. Thank you for your intelligent and kind words about neurodiverce people - it helps me to process my thoughts and feelings.
As someone who has both ADHD & autism, I am very pleased with how many representations of ADHD/autistic people in movies & tv we are seeing lately. Wednesday, Evelyn from EEAAO, Katie & Aaron from The Mitchell’s vs. the Machines, etc. Very encouraging to see people like me on the screen being super-awesome and not being cast as some kind of burden to the people around them.
Excellent Episode, thank you for that Jonno! I am on the autism spectrum (diagnosed recently at age 37) and it is really hard. Just being around people: I feel like in a play and I'm the only one who didn't get the script and never nowing what is going to happen next. Trying to recover from family and teachers not knowing or understanding what is going on. Always labled as shy, socially awkward and lazy, always underperforming and not meeting the mark while doing my best. My diagnosis was a huge relief, but on the outside I mask just well enough that people tend to forget that i have limitations and instead of an adjustment in expectations, I am still supposed to be "more normal" which is soul crushing. Even though they claim to understand my diagnosis. I still feel nobody can see who I really am and I don't even know who I am because of having spent all my life so far trying to be who I was expected to be and failing. But who really knows who they are I guess, talking to people about that, the issue is downplayed and it's said that everybody feels that way, or so I am told. Also I feel emotions extremely deeply and I care about people and not fitting in or offending/hurting others on accident, but it doesn't show on the outside, so it is easy to assume that I don't care. Easy to be misread/misunderstood. Animals are the only safe connections in my life.
Yeah I hate the whole, "Everybody is a little autistic or ADHD sometimes." Good for you, buddy. I'm a lot like that ALL the time! Like they think that since they've occasionally experienced something similar once or twice that ADHD isn't real or that "You're no more Autistic than the rest of us." Like, I don't need to be "more" autistic to satisfy some NT's expectations of me.
Really appreciated what was said in this video. I can be split down the middle - I can either come across very monotonous and uncaring or care so much and get told I'm too emotional. It's incredibly difficult to find where on that line I'm expected to be with every single individual relationship.
i’ve lost the vast majority of my close friends recently because of a lot of what wednesday went through and what you described. i hurt people without realizing it and said things that were taken completely differently than i meant, or they couldn’t understand me and expected me to be different, called me gullible or heartless or that i was lying to them, and it’s caused me a lot of pain and loneliness. this video was exactly what i needed to see. thanks jono.
Watching this video and keeping in mind the conversation Wednesday had with Morticia when she was first being enrolled into the academy, where she says something and Morticia says in response "Finally a kind word for your mother" made it click in my head exactly how much it is that Morticia understands Wednesday and how her brain works.
I'm on the autism spectrum and I just want to thank your for this content; expressing that we bring value to the table and that we're worth accommodating. So much other content is focused on our deficits and masking capabilities and what autistic people are expected to do for the comfort of others, but to be honest, just presenting as "human" consumes soooo much bandwidth that it's exhausting and personally, I have to withdraw to recover from the depletion.
I think that a lot of what I see, at least in the experiences of my friends and I and our kids... Is that seeing the various levels of neurodivergence is also important. Like, my daughter with an ADHD diagnosis and her cousin who is pretty severely autistic from a genetic microdeletion. And then remembering how hard it has been to realize the "oh hey, maybe the reason I always felt and was treated by my family as explicitly different (eg. I literally just told my partners I need a flow chart for all the subtext in a 'normal' conversation with my folks 😂😅) is because I AM wired different and that is ok" ... Like finally realizing I am neurospicy and learning what flavors as an adult is helping me be a better parent and a better me. So yes, Wednesday might be coded autistic, and I wouldn't be surprised, but even that diagnosis we need to be aware is on a spectrum, as well as that a lot of things we see as symptoms for things are more ... Studied in guys. Like we all know a male heart attacks symptoms, but women's can be identical to panic attacks and only differentiated by the EKG and blood tests.
I’m going to be honest- I am neurodivergent and I struggle so heavily with trying to get people- neurodivergent or otherwise, just anyone who isn’t similar “enough” to me- to conform to my standard of “being.” This channel is really helping me to realize the true differences between people and also that other people struggle with this too. Hearing this perspective is really helpful! I love this channel now, even more than Cinema Therapy (which is saying a lot!)
Autistic here *waves* since I was a kid I always thought I couldn’t be autistic cause I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum where I feel waaay too much than nothing really and I want so desperately to make connections it comes off like wow, and I was abused and conditioned to understand basic social ques or else; so now in my 30’s and my last therapist and I worked out I’m the way I am cause all these reasons AND autistic. I switched to a specialized therapist for autistic individuals who experienced a lot of trauma in the name of conforming and it was very eye opening. Being autistic isn’t the same for everyone and having shows like this display autistic individuals even a little is helpful. I hope that the mass media companies can do some research and one day be able to show a bit more of the whole spectrum, so that little kids and their parents can realize ohh maybe our child is just a bit different, instead of forcing them to conform “for their saftey”
I was diagnosed with autism last month and I can definitely recognise myself in parts of Wednesday's experience, but I'm also reminded of the vast differences in autistic experiences. I'm high masking and try to blend in, usually I succeed, but it also means that people are less sympathetic when I fail and it has been a literal nightmare to get help wich in turn has lead to depression, anxiety and obsessive compulsive thoughts and behaviours. I'm very empathetic and often take on other people's feelings like they were my own wich makes it super difficult to engage in the world around me. In many ways I'm the opposite of Wednesday, even if we both are autistic.
I kinda got the vibe from how she handled her “emotions” as it is pretty similar to how I handle mine(not healthy btw). She builds up her walls all while pretending she would rather be alone, when in all reality she really cares.
Something I'd like clarification (and maybe a whole educational video) on: what exactly makes someone neurodivergent vs "different"? Because sure, people with autism, ADHD etc. think and see the world differently, but technically speaking EVERYONE does. When does someone's unique perspective and way of processing things make them neurodivergent? How deviant from the "norm" does someone have to be before they're no longer just "unique," "weird" or "eccentric"? How is the "norm" established in the first place? How do we determine whether someone has a form of neurodivergence or simply shares similar traits? What types of psychological conditions are considered forms of neurodivergence, and why? Are there disagreements about what things should or should not be in that category?
My daughter is neurodivergent and it is such a struggle for her in school. 😢 She is in forth grade now and has no friends. She gets bullied and teazed a lot. And as best as I and her therapist try to explain to her that she is unique not horrible she still feel heavily depressed. It's heart breaching to watch your child go through this and not being able to help😢😢😢
I have asperger's and have all the associated social struggles. I really appreciate the way you model compassion and empathy, it helps me relate to NT people in a way they can more easily understand without making me feel like I'm completely faking it
My beautiful 6 year old son was diagnosed with autism right before starting kindergarten, but I knew he was autistic since he was 3 years old. His dad refused to believe it right up until the diagnosis was made. I think a lot of parents are afraid to see what is there because they think that a diagnosis of autism will mean that there is something wrong with their kid. But from the moment I first suspected it, I was not remotely bothered by the idea that my son might be autistic. I loved him to death and knew he would be the same unique kid after a diagnosis. And I knew that with a diagnosis, we could focus on, and develop his unique strengths. I don't know what he would be like now if we had ignored the signs; but I do know that with early and consistent support, he is set to conquer the world. Also, as an aside, I was never diagnosed, but I'm pretty sure I'm neurodivergent myself. This video really resonated with me. I have struggled with trying to anticipate how people will react to me for my whole life. People are always getting mad, hurt, offended, or, most often, just plain put off, when I least expect it. I don't want my son to struggle like I did.
i related to wednesday except i smile haha. I like that when wednesday was talking to bianca that you mentioned that people should be happy that theyre showing interest instead of micromanaging how people show empathy and making people feel guilty for not doing it the way they want. I have never been good at comforting people, i dont do hugs or crying so my way of showing empathy is offering solutions to peoples problems rather than telling people i feel sorry for them. I have thought for a while that i may be possibly autistic so when people mentioned wednesdays autistic traits i was like no wonder i relate lol.
The hug felt round the world. It's a meaningful moment that resonates because Wednesday does not hug anyone. The fact she not only let Enid hug her but hugged her back is a big step for her character. It's still interesting to note that she still initially resists, pushing Enid away, but you can see the moment she tells herself, this is okay we both need this and thats a wonderful thing.
Wednesday in her previous versions was super smart, perceptive like a psychic, very logical and somehow like an adult. She was like super human child earlier.
It's been long since I felt so seen. Thank you. As a peer-reviewed autistic person (with ADHD, but I think that doesn't play a huge role here) I heavily related to Wednesday from the beginning. It still hurt a lot, when my then-partner, who is also AuDHD, but also has childhood cPTSD on top of that, pointed out how Enid's rant when she moves out also applies to me. I've been alone at home for a month now, everyone else is on vacation, and tonight I broke down because I was so frustrated how I looked forward to being alone for weeks or months before this, but I can't handle it when I'm alone. So after some trigger-seeking and a lot of crying I am now in a state where I finally have the emotional and mental capacity to watch this video that was on my list for so long, and it's soo healing. Your main goal seems to be to teach neuronormative folks how to accept neurodivergent people for who they are, but today, you are teaching my neurodivergent ass how to accept myself for who I am. Again, thank you so much.
I mean, I haven't watched it yet, but my take is neurodivergent is anyone who thinks in different ways from others, so all of the Addams Family would be that. I find it fascinating how much these characters speak to us, that from a simple comic making jokes that straddle the line between quasi-anti-sometimes-pro-xenophobic commentary and misanthropic criticism of American mythology can be so adaptable across half a dozen generations.
I think it’s because they bring the “dark side” of human beings to the front. Their macabre ideology is something we all think but push down or don’t show because it is not socially acceptable.
On the other hand, I understand that this is for a new generation, but I do miss the days when none of the Addamses were self-aware enough to recognize that the world doesn't comform to their values: there was a power in the way that everyone else had to accommodate their values because of the sheer magnitude of their personalities. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think he's specifically referring to neurodivergence officially. Not just people who think different but people who's brains actually function differently from typical brain function. Autism, ADHD, Turret's, etc... Anyone can change how they think, but someone who is truly neurodivergent can't change how their brain physically processes information.
Pet peeve on autism descriptions. Autism is NOT a lack of empathy. Autists are some of the most empathetic people I know, sometimes even debilitatingly so. But our algorithm for experiencing and expressing emotion is fundamentally different so we misinterpret and misunderstand constantly. And then neurotypicals (including researchers) think we don't care. ASPD understands but doesn't care. ASD cares but doesn't understand. Big difference.
I am a hugger, and I have a lot of female friends for that reason because most men have issues being hugged by other men. I became friends with this girl in college who wasn't a hugger, but I was unaware of that and she didn't tell me. After a few months, I was hanging out with some other friends and they casually mentioned (not directed toward me) that my other friend didn't like hugs. In my head I was like "oh crap. I've been making my friend uncomfortable every time she sees me." So the next time I saw her when we were with a group of friends, I didn't hug her. She got offended and said, "Where's my hug?" "I was told that you don't like hugs, and I don't want you to be uncomfortable around me." "Well I like them from you." And we went for a hug. Don't know why she only liked them from me, there was never anything romantic going on, and we still have catch up chats to this day.
I'm not saying it's definitely why but... I know for me, possibly because of my anxiety issues, I don't like being touched unexpectedly or being "forced" or feeling coerced into it, and this is USUALLY particularly the case when it comes to receiving hugs from guys, because I'll be frank, a lot of guys out there seem to use it in a... shall we say non platonic sense. Which feels... threatening or unsettling.
Like, if I barely know a guy and he's trying to hit on me and then just... hugs me, that's incredibly creepy, unsettling, and makes me feel unsafe; I had a customer once when I was working retail, who was hitting on me and trying to convince me to meet him somewhere by myself to "model" for his photography...and before he left the shop, he spontaneously just. Hugged me. And he did it from the front, in a way that pushed my boobs up against his chest. I was SO creeped out! Even though he didn't physically "threaten" me, that made me, in my own body, feel Unsafe.
But.
There have always been a small number of people from whom hugs are just... nice . Whom I feel safe with. I like those!
From the sound of it she knew you were a general hugger not just around her, and not like straight up just trying to flirt or cop a feel from her.
So to me, it sounds like she enjoys hugs from you because because you don't make her feel unsafe, and maybe even actively help her feel at ease. The fact you immediately were willing to back off from the behavior when you thought she was uncomfortable with it speaks volumes, in a good way.
It reminds me of my dad and how even some of the most wary pets would gravitate toward him because he was so gentle and respectful of them.
It's a wonderful thing. I'm glad she felt safe enough to enjoy your hugs and that you're still in touch ❤
I think it is great that you reacted that way! I hate hugs and here in Germany as soon as you know a person just a little bit better, it is common to hug as a form of saying hello. I am always glad when its over ^^ I play along because i know that the others will think i dont like them (no matter how often i explain that that is not the case), but really i woulkd be glad if i dont have to touch a single person for the rest of my life apart from my boyfriend. He is literally the only exception. I dont even like my parents hugging me. And i am not autistic or anything, i am just really not a touchy person. I also think handshakes and clapping on the shoulder and all of that is just so annoying ^^
I think its great when people respect that :)
ND guy dating a ND girl and she's your friend. My GF doesn't like a lot of things from other people that she loves from me, and certain other close folks in her life.
i love this story ❤
Maybe you give her an excellent hug!
I remember in the original movie with Christina Ricci when she's forced to go to camp and Morticia says "Wednesday is that the age when girls only have one thing on their mind", to which the councillor jokingly asks "boys?" and Wednesday replies "homicide". As someone who is autistic and absolutely loathed school activities that feeling is so relatable.
I feel like for girls at that age, it's usually one or the other... if not both....
As an Aro who also hated activities, it *is* relatable!
@@jessi8252 as an ace, this is 100% on point for me too.
Wednesday was always my favorite character, ever, because she was so relatable to me. And especially because she wasn't written to satisfy some social quota like today.
I remember just being angry all the time because of how depressed I was and I felt relieved when I watched that. Felt very relatable to me at the time 🤣🤣
As someone on the autism spectrum myself, I really appreciate your emphasis on how important it is for autistic people to be accepted for who they are, both by themselves and others. It took me years to realize that there is nothing wrong with me for not understanding people's emotions and social cues and to instead look at all the strengths I get from autism. I really appreciate when those with a public platform like you use your expertise for more autism discussions and acceptance.
That's really nice, and good to keep in mind. My brother says I have autism "according to a friend of his in the medical field" and that I need to "fix" certain aspects of my behavior so that I am more in conformity with the rest of society (and he's the only one I know who thinks I'm not in conformity with society). Thing is, I myself don't think I have autism!!! Nothing wrong with it... it's just... it ain't me! But the idea that I have to "fix" myself to please him. So this is good to keep in mind.
I agree with everything you’re saying, as someone who also is on the spectrum ❤. Thank you
Neuro divergent people aren’t just with autism it’s all different mental illnesses and all that shit. So, it pisses me off that autistic people assume characters who aren’t even autistic and look like all different mental illness or disablities because a lot of them have similar traits or looks from the outside.
Right? Most "therapists" just want to cure/treat us. It's nice to see one who actually wants us to be accepted for who we are
@@georockstar09 I suggest looking up the traits of autism for yourself and coming to your own conclusion, because when my mom first suggested that I might be autistic I thought she was crazy, but then when I did some research I realized how much of the traits I related to. And not long after that, I was diagnosed
It's interesting how you point out the moments where Wednesday could have expressed empathy, but instead goes straight to the facts. When someone shares something important or sad with me, "that must be hard" is something I have to actively remind myself to say. To me, it feels like empty words. It feels artificial. Whereas asking for more info about the situation, or offering my own experience in response, feels like a genuine exchange, which is how I show that I care. I have trained myself to verbalise my sympathies, though, because it is clearly important to many people.
I have also become hesitant to respond in situations like that, because I'm afraid of appearing like I'm making it all about myself. I'm afraid my friend will think I'm dragging the spotlight away from them and onto myself. The thing is: in my brain, there is no spotlight to drag anywhere. Instead, there's a rain cloud hanging over my friend, and what I'm doing is stepping under it with them so that they're not all alone in the rain.
🌧 🌧❤️❤️ that's so sweet
I think as someone who also likes to reply with Stories, I have to remember "that sounds hard or sorry to hear that." As well. For me, I try to think of it like emotional punctuation. You help the other person feel heard that way.
However I found this post insightful and I appreciate it. 🌧️🌈🌦️
This is exactly me too! I am not good with sympathising and empathising, I iust learn and tell my similar experiences. (Or I don't respond at all due to me not knowing how to). I've had a lot of difficult friendships where they always thought me askijg a bunch of questions was me ignoring what theyre saying, or me saying my own experiences is me making it about myself. When that is the only way that I know how to sincerely communicate.
i get this on such a fundamental level it's ridiculous. when a friend is telling me about their struggles or what they're going through, my first impulse is always to gather more information by asking questions and try to solve the problem by giving advice or presenting possible solutions i see, often drawing parallels to my own experiences. i want to understand what they're experiencing and i want to help them find a way through it, because that's how my empathy works. it took years for me to learn that sometimes that isn't the help they're looking for - sometimes they just want someone to hear them and validate their feelings, or someone to reassure them that they aren't at fault for whatever situation they're in.
nowadays i've trained myself to respond with "that sounds really rough, how can i be here for you right now?" or "do you want empathy, comfort, or advice?", but even that sometimes misses the mark because it's interpreted as less sincere than if i had offered whatever form of support they're looking for, as Enid puts it, without having to be told.
Same. I always had the same intentions, but then I thought about what frustrates me with my family members when I'm venting to them and a big thing is that they never seem to address what I've said properly. They either try to solve it which is often unhelpful or they jump to another conversation without responding at all. I realized that what I need is someone to validate what I'm feeling because for some reason I can relax when someone else "agrees" with me about my situation, but I keep being anxious and upset until then. So realizing that what I need is actually someone to say "yeah, you're right, that sucks" has made me try to start doing that for other people more.
Please please please do not mistake not being able to see emotion in a person with that person not feeling. I live this mis-read regularly. I hurts when I am accused of not feeling (or not feeling enough) in person and even more when it gets passed to me second hand. Yes, I am guarded and use my face weird; these facts are a far cry from "not feeling"
THISSSS!
I feel this.
Sometimes I have to worry that I'm not reacting enough, and that people will think I'm not taking things seriously enough. Sometimes I react too much, and people tell me that I'm prone to panicking.
I can talk to people about almost anything, but I very rarely talk to anyone about a few topics that are way too close to me. So people don't see me connecting with them, only on a superficial level.
Sometimes I'm told to open up and relax, that I can open up with them. But then when I open up on my thoughts, I offend people half the time. How am I supposed to open up and also consider other people's feelings while feeling so vulnerable at the same time?
And people wonder why I'm so guarded.
RBF is a curse for the ND!!
We have learned to live our lives by masking because people do not react well to us when not masking.
This means that for us there are no "natural" expressions. Everything is a carefully chosen degree of expression. This gets us by a lot of the time, but other times it makes us come across as insincere or trying too hard.
What to others can seem like an unemotional state is simply is not sharing, usually because we don't know how much to share and how to share it
I was having similar thoughts with the talk about empathy. Mostly because my particular flavor of ASD lands on being able to empathize almost excessively in terms of feeling what someone else is feeling but not knowing what to do with those feelings so not expressing that empathy or expressing it in a really weird way.
I think here it's maybe not talked about because we don't have her internal voice to go on so there's no way of really knowing what she is or isn't feeling. As viewers of a TV show we just have to go on her external voice and what she is showing and saying which is outwardly very emotionless. We can't just ask her like people should ideally be asking you. It would be nice to see that addressed.
I am autistic and had no interest in wednesday as tim burton movies and Addams family iIterations never spraked my interest, I watched it only as several other autistic people told me how relatable it is and I was not disapointed I cant wait for a second season
Added to this; there is so much so frickin well written autistic Wednesday fanfiction it's like a treasure chest full of good representation
By Jesus’ stripes, you are healed.
Nice!!
@@christiantwist3360 please stop
@@christiantwist3360You don’t need to be cured of autism. Stop taking the Lord’s name in vain.
I’m autistic, diagnosed about a year ago, so there is still so much I am learning about differences in neurotypes. And this video taught me something about neurotypical expectations. When Wednesday was talking to Bianca, it never once struck me as odd that she asked for more info instead of “empathizing” with her. To me, that WAS her empathizing with Bianca.
I had the exact same reaction!
me too!!! same with the line "is it because you're the only normie..." because for me, that line made complete sense and it meant that she cared and was willing to engage, I never viewed it as her focusing on the facts, that was her being empathetic for me!
@@anacarolinasouza3804 Exactly! Asking the question showed she cares. I feel like my 16-year-old self would have acted very much the same way.
How do you get diagnosed as an adult? How did you know to get tested?
@@anacarolinasouza3804 exactly!! The "empathetic" answer of "that sounds rough" sound so superficial/cookie cutter and conversation ending. If you say "I know how you feel" with no explanation, it again sounds fake. If you give an example, it sounds like you're turning the conversation to yourself.
So asking more about that person's situation (and with insight too!!! Noticing teacher being only normie could be hard, and noticing Bianca's amulet is supposed to help with her problems) sounds like the best response..
"There's a lot of pressure to conform...To do so would be a betrayal." You made me tear up. I'm autistic and ADHD and have been trying to fit in my whole life, before I found out I was neurodivergent in my late thirties. It's a hard habit to break, and I want better for the next generation. Only by people like you saying--and acting on the belief--that we are valuable as we are, can the stigma change.
Thank you.
Neurodivergent here: I am in the ADHD category of this mindset away from the norm: I love the Addams family so much because they love each other being different when many “real” families are quick to judge or shame a person with a different brain.
Great Video!!!
That's such a sweet interpretation! I've loved them since the 90s Addams Family Matters movie and I totally get that vibe. ND ppl understand that lesson deeply, even if it's relatable to many.
That is a wonderfull one. It also ties into what Johnathan said on the 1st dive into Wednesday, how Pugsley "gets it," that she just shows emotion differently. If you look at this Pugsley and Gomez having ADHD (can totally see it, trying to get diagnosed for Adult ADHD myself), it really clicks since people with different neurodivergencies can often click and just "get" each other more easily than neurotypical people, even if they are vastly different "types" of divergence. Autism and ADHD tend to click especially, because both are prone to hyperfixations, and don't mind the infodump, or even welcome it.
Wait, ADHD is considered “neurodivergent”? Yes, I’m actually asking.
@@Miss_Camel yes, ADHD is type of neurological disorder. It is neurodevelopmental/neurobehavioral disorder. There ADHD brain differ from typical brains in how they function.
@@piiajarvinen2554 Their*, and I maintain that we’re just significantly more entertaining than everyone else. However, if it’s something I could claim for benefits, I’ll definitely add it to the list!! Sadly, ADHD as I am, and with my severe panic disorder, etc, I’m….still not neurodivergent. I AM mentally ill (No, not bc of ADHD), but I know my lane and how to stay in it..
As a person with a sibling with autism, I really appreciate how you said neurodivergent people just show their emotions differently. My brother is usually quiet and slightly stoic in his facial expressions, but once we bring up something he enjoys like fireworks, games, outer space, or birthday surprises, he lights up and gets loud and has the biggest smile. That also is hard for people to understand, and some extended family members joked he was "psycho" when he loudly surprised my mom with a confetti balloon he made. It's hard for people to understand that he has no boundary to show extreme joy when he's happy. It's also hard when they ask him questions and if he doesn't want to answer...he doesn't answer 😅
It took me 13 years (we're 6 years apart) to finally appreciate my brother for who he is and understand how he sees the world differently, but I'm glad that I did!
By Jesus’ stripes, he is healed.
Ohhhh I can relate to this so well, though my brother doesn't get loud, but very excited and giggly when it comes to things that he likes. And yes people can get so irritated when he doesn't respond or doesn't make eye contact (which he never does unless asked to).
Personally one of the things I always appreciated is how he doesn't care about norms, there is no shame or need to be "appropriate" when we are together. It is soooo comfortable, a bit of a break from society😅
Thank you for sharing this
Thanks for pointing this out, the only thing I'm not loving about this Wednesday portrayal as autistic is Wednesday's lack of joy. All the autistic kids I know can be very joyful at times. But OMG yea the not answering questions thing is really challenging.
Did he say that? I kept hearing him say we didn’t have emotions.
My best friend is autistic and one of the best things for our friendship was me getting diagnosed with ADHD. While looking into ADHD and comparing it to autism I suddenly realized that the major differences between the two correlated with the biggest tensions in our friendship. Particularly, when I would suddenly cancel or change plans. I never knew why it was such a big deal. To me, changes in plans are usually exciting or a relief, even if I was looking forward to the original plan. And I get extremely frustrated and feel on edge if things are too predictable for too long. So I didn't realize that she actually needs that predictability. Now I do my best to stick to plans and if I might have to change or cancel them I make sure to let her know as early as possible so she has enough time to prepare for that possibility as well
You're a good friend, you actually listened to her needs ! My friends ignored my repeated demands for being contacted by written means (text or e-mail) before calling me, as I hate the unpredictability of a unannounced phone call and get really stressed out by it, especially if it has been a long time since our last contact. Their dismissal of my need is one of the reasons I first stopped having contact with them then stopped being friends with them altogether. Now I have only one friend, not a close one but at least, since she's autistic like me, she doesn't call me without warning (she even doesn't call me at all, we talk via text when not in each other's direct presence and we're happy with that).
And that's why having both is a daily rollercoaster lmao
Yeah, that's a dick move, ADHD/Autism or not. Don't do that shit. I'm glad you're doing better.
@@littlemoth4956 that’s not necessarily true.. it depends on the friendship. My best friend and I both have adhd and it is very common for us to change plans or not follow through with plans. To go weeks without talking and then talk every day for a month. Some people thrive on change and some people don’t. But I wouldn’t consider it a dick move to do what’s best for you and your relationships.
My husband is ADHD and I'm autistic; makes for some interesting struggles but it's great when we can make our differences complement each other! He keeps me flexible and I am his working memory 😁❤
Thank you so much for this message. As an ND person (mostly ADHD with a few extras) I've been suffering from being misunderstood all my life, and I've constantly been told there was something wrong with me and "that's not how people are supposed to behave".
I'll never forget the moment we were told in school to never trust anybody who won't look you in the eyes, because "they have something to hide". That really HURT, because I can't even lock eyes with people I'm really close with, much less total strangers. I had to learn to stare at the base of the nose to fake looking other people in the eyes just to not be outcast from society because of this stupid superstition.
On the other hand, my first German teacher will always have a very special place in my heart. She once told my parents (who always tried to force me into masking): "Your child spends most of my lessons staring out of the window, doodling patterns on their books or writing page upon page of made-up words into their exercise book. But when I ask them about the lesson, they always know the correct answer. That's fine with me, teaching is not about feeding my own ego by having children hang on my lips, it's about them learning something. And if they learn best by simply being themselves, that's great! So please stop telling them to sit still and look at me. That's not how their brain works, and that's totally okay."
Your German teacher sounds like an angel. I had a math teacher who made me enjoy learning math, because he always added stories, and he showed me an easier way to add and subtract, which greatly helped me with budgeting later on in life. (ADHD also)
@@purple4216 She definitely was!
As was your math teacher. It's so frustrating, most children ENJOY learning before they are sent off to school were it is turned into this unbearable chore. Bad enough for NT people, but we all know what 'unbearable chore' does to the average ADHD brain ... :(
I (neurodivergent, probably ADHD and autism, undiagnosed apart from anxiety and depression) also had a great teacher who always encouraged me to keep doing what I love, which was drawing and writing. She once told my mother when I was standing next to them, "Maybe they are not that good at math. But it does not matter, they draw amazingly." Up to this day, she is my source of motivation when I just feel like giving up my dreams.
@@calliesdandelions Thanks for sharing, to both of you! Reading about those ND-friendly teachers gives me hope that one day dealing with ND students in a helpful way will be considered the norm, not a rare bonus!
@Ben Nathrai I sure hope so, too! That teacher always let me scribble in my notebooks. Some of my teachers in 5th and 6th grade did, but she was especially supportive and really did not care much if I had finished all my tasks, I could draw and write whenever I wanted. She always praised my artwork, and kept many copies of it, actually. Her support made me stick to creative things, even when my depression got worse. Nowadays, I am an actor and writer. I don't draw much anymore due to lack of time for it in my schedule but I would love to get back into it at some point.
Now back to the topic, I am sure you are going to be an amazing teacher. And I hope it will be more common for teachers to be more ND-supportive in the future, too.
It never occurred to me that Wednesday might be ND, particularly autistic, but it makes sense. The rest of the family are very affectionate towards each other. When Morticia, Gomez, and Pugsley are leaving Nevermore and Pugsley throws his arms around her, while Morticia knows to give Wednesday space...
Hyperfocus, while most strongly associated with ADHD, is part of autism, as well.
I think she, at first, hugs Enid back because Wednesday understands Enid could have died. But after a few moments, she realizes that she needs the hug as well.
I was thinking that I relate to much of what Wednesday goes through because many of her struggles (and those of neurodivergent people as well) are based on societal or cultural expectations that I relate to just because my folks are immigrants lol. And knowing how different Wednesday’s upbringing was...
I'm AuDHD (Autistic and ADHD) and really like how you handled this! One misconception is that we (Autistic people) don't feel empathy, but we do! The difference is in how we show it. Neurotypical people will typically show it by saying something like "I'm sorry!" or something similar, to show they understand what has happened and empathise. But for a Neurodivergent person, when we want to show empathy, we share a story from our own experiences that is similar to what the person we're talking to shared to show we understand and sympathise/empathise. To Neurotypical folks, this is generally seen as rude, as making the moment and discussion about ourselves instead of about them, but to Neurodivergent folks, it's a sign of understanding and empathy/sympathy. We also tend to have difficulty expression our emotions: Not necessarily entirely emotionless in appearance, or totally flat affectations, we may just have difficulty putting feelings into words or expressing them in a way that Neurotypicals find acceptable.
As for the Social Cues, that is also a spectrum of how we handle it. Some can read the Social Cues, and maybe even understand what they are, but the cues don't make sense and so get ignored or disregarded. Some can't recognise the cues, but can tell when they've missed something, Some can't recognise the cues and don't recognise the more subtle expression of lines being crossed. And, due to the consequences of crossing those lines, we're prone to overshare and overexplain everything just to make sure there are no misunderstandings.
How we tend to socialise is seen as strange. Our biggest ones, that seem the most common regardless of where we are in the massive spectrum, are Parallel Play (everyone is doing their own thing and just vibing side by side), Info Dumping (talking about our special interests at great length to a friend/whoever we're talking to, and then listening as they do the same), and Penguin Pebbling (I found this cool thing and thought you would like it/this thing made me think of you (gift sharing, but could also be meme sharing)).
We tend to Hyperfocus, often to the determent of ourselves and/or others. Wednesday was so focused on the mystery, which drew her interest, that she missed out on some cues of what was going on around her and the damage that was being caused. I know I've been so hyperfocused on something that I didn't eat for that day and barely remembered to drink/take my allergy medication. (I also have trouble sensing hunger and thirst in general, so it was easy to miss out on food and drink for the day and not notice) And then there's Executive Disfunction, which often gets called laziness, but really is our brains refusing to allow our bodies to move to do what we need to do or want to do. We know we have things to do, we want to do them, but we can't. And it get frustrating when people don't understand that.
When it comes to touch, we vary. Some love touch, some can't stand touch, and it can even very depending on if we are in a good headspace or nearing a meltdown or shutdown.
.....This turned into a massive spiel, sorry! I could go on and on about this topic, and about the various struggles I have in navigating the world (Between my Autism, ADHD, SPD (Sensory Processing Disorder), RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria), Dyspraxia, Chronic Pain Condition (going on 16 years of trying to find a name for it and something to help it), and Semi-Verbal nature (I'm most comfortable when I don't have to speak, but I can speak when needed and can force speech as needed, but have Non-verbal days and go into Non-Verbal shut downs when overwhelmed), but I think I've already shared a bit too much for a simple video about Wednesday and Neurodivergence.
So I'll end by saying this: If you know one Neurodivergent person, then you know ONE Neurodivergent person. The spectrum is massive, so even though there are some traits we'll share, there will also be plenty of things that are unique to each Neurodivergent person.
All we ask is that you have patience and understanding when working with us, and that you remember we are just as complex as you.
I think the biggest thing everyone misunderstands about Wednesday is that she actually loves her family but is afraid they might die if she loves them after the trauma of her pet scorpion being killed by bullies when she was a little girl.
I'm Autistic, and I appreciate the approach you showed here. Its nice to hear someone talk about the strengths of neurodivergence and not just the shortcomings. I'm over 40 and still struggling with social relationships. I WANT to be around people, and I just can't figure out how to make that happen, even though many folks say I'm friendly and fun to be around. It's still impossible to go past friendship or hold a job. It shouldn't be this hard. Just one point of difference in what you talked about in the video. We do have and experience the normal range of human emotions, we just don't express them or show them in ways neurotypical folks recognize. Sometimes we can't identify or label exactly WHAT we're feeling, but we do feel it...sometimes very little, sometimes too much!
Agree! I think the emotions thing is one of the most absolutely misunderstood things about us. And while I do think Jonno might have had a slip of the tongue on that one, it never ceases to astound me how people get us so confused with one of the main characteristics fundamental to ASPD. I guess it's that difficult for some people to understand that *feeling* something & *showing feelings* 💯 do not have to coincide 😶
I think there may be a disconnect in us between the feeling an emotion and the sharing of that emotion that neurotypical people do not have. When talking to a stranger I do not see any reason to share my emotional state, but with friends it's like sharing anything else, you share your joy to bring joy to others and you share your pain to show empathy with another's pain. At least that's how it feels to me. I'm almost 40 and only discovered I'm neurodivergent within the last couple of years. It's weird coming to terms with stuff that I struggled with all my life turning out to be just my brain being wired differently
I really relate to the trouble with emotions. One thing I noticed when I started therapy, the first therapist I spoke with always did that whole 'how are you feeling?' or 'what have you been feeling?' and I hated it, because unless there was something significantly out of the norm I didn't know how to answer so it was always 'fine' regardless because I don't know how to describe what I'm feeling most times (I learned it's called alexithymia). So for a number of reasons I found a different therapist and she actually gives me pointed questions about my week and actual experiences that I could then work on extrapolating my internal experiences from and analyzing them like I would a character in a book. Somehow that makes it way easier in retrospect to figure out what I was feeling at a certain time or why I've reacted certain ways, and helps me kind of recognize similar situations when they come up.
Showing feelings for me is super confusing sometimes because like I want my friends to know I care about their shitty day or their amazing experience or whatever, but I never know what to do or say. So I guess I just try to be there, or message more often with inconsequential things so they know I'm thinking about them, or send random gifts if I see something I think they'd like. I guess it works, but when someone's having a bad experience, like Wednesday said "to be honest I wish I cared more" and could empathize better.
@@echoc7213 I really relate to that. I usually either say something along the lines of "as always" or with friends and family it's usually tired (i have narcolepsy, so tired is my usual state of being). I do have a lot of trouble identifying and expressing emotions.
I'm also terrible at comforting people emotionally.
My therapist recommended CinemaTherapy to me. I have binged all those videos and now am binging these. I am neurodivergent (ADHD) and diagnosed (along with the ADHD) with clinical depression, GAD, and CPSTD. Y'all's videos have helped me sooooo much--keep up the fantastic work!
I just wanted to point out that when Enid says, “Because that’s what friends do. They don’t have to be asked. And the fact that you don’t know that says everything” - that’s a mess. People are not mindreaders. They don’t know the specific needs of others. They do have to be asked. Because every brain is different. Every person is different. Everyone has different needs, even in similar situations. What is affirming and helpful for one person can actually be damaging to another. We need to normalizing asking for what we need, and hearing others when they do.
💯 THIS!!!!!!!👏👏👏👏👏
People definitely need to ask first. I HATE surprises so if I had that happen to me after a long day, I would have been very dismissive or furious with Enid as well. Not everyone needs a party, surprises, or even a ton of people around. I get that Enid is a werewolf, wolves value the pack, but she should have realized others aren't that same. that also says a lot about her.
YEEEEEEES
Excellent point! And this makes me ponder further if Enid's character was supposed to say this as a werewolf, since their alertness to bodily cues would possibly be more heightened than other species of people.
Also worth noting that these are 16yo girls here. They're not gonna be the picture of emotional competence on either side of the stain-glass window 😂 Enid comes to realize after that outburst that what she said (in the heat of a moment after she nearly died multipme times!) was wrong.
as both a goth person and an undiagnosed autistic person I relate hard to Wednesday, especially this iteration. I always found it hard to relate to autistic characters until Wednesday, but she quite literally speaks my language with our shared morbid interests and the way we communicate. The way we both say "I love you" is insults and threats of violence and death. To say I feel seen by Wednesday as a show and character would be an understatement.
YES! I'm goth & autistic. Watching Wednesday was like looking in a mirror. I don't catch all these details because, to me, she acts normally. I don't pick up on the social cues the other characters are giving her either, and she always responds similarly to how I would have, so hearing the non autistic perspective on Wednesday is amusing.
I appreciate you making this video and going out of your way to be nuanced, informed, and respectful of the community. I can't wait to possibly see more videos like this in the future!
Autistics aren't a monolith, and I feel the video did a great job highlighting the type of autistic presentation shown by Wednesday. I do want to mention for anyone who happens to be reading this comment that autistic people can also be hyper-empathetic, cartoonish levels of expressive, very very tuned into social cues, etc, and those who mask in such a way that they appear neurotypical to many.
And each of these aspects of autistic presentation can vary in either extreme, changing day to day, person to person.
Thank you!
Thanks! That's the comment I wanted to write. I do know a few autiadadler and I have the most meaningful, deepest and earnest conversations with them. Or people who fight/fought depression. It's just not the small talk. And they are straight forward, which often is considered "rude". I appreciate it.
And honestly: I hate that flat small talk that neurotypicals seem to like...
Thank you for this comment! I was just diagnosed about a year ago at 49 and I'm not sure if it's because of being a woman (apparently we tend to be 'better' at masking), but I'm definitely on the hyper-empathetic, very expressive, very attuned socially, etc. end of things. My markers are more things like my intense special interests, a need for structure and systems, social anxiety (possibly from being so hyper-aware in social interactions), executive dysfunction issues, texture sensitivity, etc.
But yeah, we can all be sooo different than one another (just like neurotypicals!) and while I REALLY LOVE the character of Wednesday and the show, about the most she and I have in common is our similar sense of style (I'm a goth) and our hyper-focus on our areas of interest.
Still, as with many other autistic people I've known, there's still more of a familiarity there with her personality than with neurotypical people and so she ultimately still feels like 'family' and someone I'd really get along with easily.
As a person with High functioning autism this makes me feel so good to know that some people actually acknowledge the fact that not all autistic people are obviously autistic. Even after 4 years of having my diagnosis, people still easily forget that my brain works differently and I have resorted to making a point to subtly mention my autism quite often just so they remember that I don't always understand what they mean or feel. I've almost lost my best friend because I don't know how I'm supposed to maintain a relationship, and they needed constant validation that I cared.
@@JustCallMeM hey, just wanted to let you know that majority stoped using high functioning and low functoning labels. since it's not always that easy. they now usually refer to using the terms high and low support needs. since it can change from day to day how you are able to function. like if your not having alot of spoons one day you might have more support needs then when you have a better day with alot of spoons.^^
you can use what you want of course depends what kinda label you feel more comfy with just wanted to inform that the labels high and low support needs exist too (i don't mean to "correct" you or anything like that. so hope it does not come off like that.)
I was diagnosed with autism a few months ago as an adult. As a kid I was asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, "a human" I said. Something I have realized as an adult that resonates with many ND people is that "I enjoy being alone but I hate being lonely". It's one of the main struggles that I have with my autism that is made worse by my CPTSD, I struggle to open up to people along with them not wanting to do the same with me.
I watched Wednesday last month to see what all the hype was in the autistic community and I loved it. I'm very new to viewing myself as autistic and related so much to the hyperbolic character of Wednesday, my form of torturing my siblings involved hiding things when they displeased me rather than waterboarding though 😅
I'm neurodivergent (ASD and ADHD) and I always loved Wednesday. When I watched the series some scenes (like when Enid changes room after the date/girl's night) it hurt me and I didn't understood why. Then when you explained that scene and you told "neurodivergent people feel it but they don't know how to describe it" (something like that) I almost cried
Kudos to Tim burton for letting her have feelings sometimes. People are sometimes scared to make Wndsday have any turmoil ever because they think it will take away her wndsday-ness.
Sadly that wasn't Tim Burton, Jenna Ortega insisted on it.
Thats all about wednesday, she'll challenge who you are and why you are. She gives so much shit, she cares to share, she bothers to point at things. She thinks she is an outsider because she doesnt show it in the same way.
As a neurodivergent person adhd ( some Dr's have had some suspension about autism), the thing about Wednesday is that she is empathetic she does feel but not in the traditional way. Social cues are hard, and a lot of my persona is preppy in a melodramatic kind of way. But I learned to be over dramatic because I was taught that emotional flatness isn't enough cue to know what you actually mean. So I over emphasize my emotions for others.its not me being fake. It's just the times I grew up in that they emphasized cbt and teaching kids the "right way" of emoting. If it were up to me, I'd be more flat. Not like Wednesday per se but somewhere close. Again the emotion is there for Wednesday it's just that she's not over verbalize or emoting. But the care and empathy is 100% there.
this! same experience here, I too ended on the other side of the emoting spectrum. And sometimes is just hard to know how to hit the right spot
@Theveganflower i assume you meant "suspicion"? :-?
@@irrelevant_noob lol yes
I learned how to look and what to say when feeling pain, because otherwise no one would think I got hurt
Yeah! For me, it's totally the same way. Growing up, I always thought that you're only human if you feel emotion, whether good or bad, and as a response to that, I try to over-amplify whatever I feel to others, because I've always been "different" from people. I want to be a part of all of their connections and relationships so badly that I end up covering my emotions with an over-dramatic mask, ironically keeping people from wanting to be friends with me.
Being confused about why someone is mad at you is such a horrible feeling because so many people don't want to explain because they think you should already know. Its so horrible and it happens too much for me.
As an introvert, thank you for this! One of my best friends is a huge extrovert. It took her awhile to understand that my tolerance for socializing is limited, and has nothing to do with not wanting to be around her. If my "social battery" is low, and she wants to see me, we get together at one of our houses and do a movie marathon, rather than a bar or party.
that's a very sweet friend of yours
Treasure that friend
The fact that you always repeat how it's okay and there's nothing wrong with the way neurodivergent people act makes me so happy, thank you so much
When it comes to the experience of empathy, as an autistic, i can def relate to Wednesday.
I have never 'put myself in another's shoes' to feel empathy. I am interested in the facts and experiences of others, and I respect and empathise for them.
Even though some have called that "shallow" - for me, it makes that I'm able to empathise with everyone.
I've seen that often, people are only able to empathise with people if they can imagine it happening to *them*, and fail to empathise when they cant, like for homeless people, minority groups, etc. Whereas I can't make that distinction.
I'm not saying my empathy is inherently better, just that neurotypical empathy has its flaws as well. And that it can be frustrating when your type of empathy is pathologized or completely dismissed.
That was very well said, thank you
Iirc this is called "cognitive empathy"! And in my opinion it's extremely valuable, probably even greatly undervalued, because while it may not be the same as the instinctive emotional empathy many experience, like you say, it can be more flexible when you're trying to understand people who are very different from yourself.
I think both kinds of empathy are valuable for different reasons and in different situations. It's a great example of why neurodiversity is overall a good thing.
@@studioyokai Weird. From what you describe I think I might have both.
@@studioyokaiYes! I have this! Thank you! I've known for some time that even empathy is a spectrum, but I wasn't aware there were actually terms for different types.
I do enjoy learning new things🤗
For me I was too emotionally empathetic, For my own protection I ended up becoming more logically empathetic. So that I can understand the struggles that people go through and I can have empathy for them but I don't feel for them.
I have to have that separation because I can't solve the world's problems. If I care too much then I can't function.
Flat affect, paranoia, and even the visions she have could all point to schizophrenia as well. I think it's ambiguous for a reason and needs to stay that way. Lovely video!
Mental problems are quite often mixed. It can be really difficult to diagnose the underlying condition.
Autism and schizophrenia aren't mutually exclusive and share some traits. Some people have both diagnoses.
I want to make it clear that I was using it as an example that you cannot make an accurate diagnosis of anything unless you're a mental health professional, and that these very common and vague signs and symptoms could be anything.
@@melh2723 except they are. Negative symptoms of schizophrenia resemble autism and are fully a part of it.
Except her visions are true predictions not delusions.
As someone with inattentive ADD who was diagnosed in her mid-twenties I spent my whole childhood and still up to this day being made to feel that I‘m Not enough. Sentences like „if you would just focus you could be so much Better“ or „stop wasting your potential and concentrate in what you‘re doing“ and to this day I want to scream at those people (mostly teacher and family) that I KNOW and I would if only I could and That constant criticism and disappointment wears on me to this day. Because I would have given up literally everything to be neurotypical Just once and have people be apprechiative and proud
My mom got offended one time that I commented that our family is more like the Addams family than a "normal" family. My entire immediate family are various flavors of neurodivergent, and we're okay with being "weird" together
In my family, WEIRD is a compliment. Also, I work in special ed in middle school. More than once, when a student complained about not being normal, someone on the staff in the program all say in one way or another, "what is normal?" Our job isn't to change our students, but help them become the very best person they can be. For example, asking for a break during class. This seems very simple to some people, but can be hard for others. I like to think that we help our students find their voice, if that makes sense.
Just a thought as an autistic person, I feel like the hug scene at least from my viewpoint would have been first hug as an automatic she is running toward me with her arms out, social cues say hug is appropriate, therefore hug even though it’s uncomfortable. Second hug was looking at her face and seeing “oh that wasn’t enough, she’s still upset” more hug as a kind of I must fix my friend thing.
I really liked your viewpoint and I am very excited for season 2.
I saw Wednesday reciprocating the hug as recognizing that Enid needed it. Wednesday didnt fully engage. She was very aware that her hands were bloody.
Yes, I cried.
Wow, this puts the scene where the girls fight into context for me. I've had scenario's where I honestly to this day do not know what I did wrong. This person new from the get go that I am autistic but I guess they didn't realize that I just didn't see or feel what they were seeing or feeling. It's really frustrating when something like that happens, especially if they can only scream at you 'you know what you did wrong' and not believing you when you say 'no, honestly, I just told you X, Y and Z and I don't see what is the problem.'
That reminds me of that meme, where "Unwritten Societal Rules" is a volume several feet high, and the "What's Actually Written and Codified" is this skimpy little pamphlet. Like wth, we're not mind readers, just tell us already!
@@maskedmallard537 yeah, the worst part is that before we even started dating I had explained to her that I am autistic and what that means to me and that clear communication is important to me and all that. I even gave her an example and said I'd rather you call me an asshole than not tell me what's wrong. I guess she missed the last part XD
The hug makes sense because Wednesday had just gone through a severely traumatic event. I don’t hug ordinarily but if something has happened to break down my sense of safety to that degree I am far more likely to accept a hug from whoever offers it. It has to be to a point of dissociation almost, but that’s where Wednesday is. Enid represents a safe and familiar presence by this time in the story. The blood no doubt also makes her more reassuring. ;)
Make no mistake, Jonno… we understand the emotions of neurotypicals EXACTLY AS MUCH as they understand ours. Such that both sides find it hard to believe the other is telling the truth. “How can you not like hugs and eye contact?” “How can you tell they’re mad if they can’t be bothered to freaking say so?” We can’t believe they have so little respect and keep leaping to conclusions, they can’t believe we’re so rude and can’t put two and two together. We can’t believe they talk for so long about nothing, they can’t believe we can talk for so long about one thing. I could go on and on about these human : space alien relations but you get the point.
And now I know another reason why I loved this show so much. Also they had a great Uncle Fester and Pugsley is too adorable to be allowable by natural law. And as odd as it is to admit it, I was weirdly hypnotized by the almost magical way Morticia’s boobs were always so perfectly set in her dress. The costume department should be proud.
And speaking of magic… a psychologist (the one good one I ever saw myself) taught me about active listening. I think more Autistics should learn this. It’s like a missing piece of the puzzle. Much of social interaction is unnecessarily oblique to what is actually intended such that it’s like being expected to compete in a game with no rules presented. Active listening is a system we can actually learn with practice. If more of social interaction was presented as a system that can be applied, I think we would be able to do better. Considering it works the opposite of how we usually come across, it’s very helpful indeed where you need to counteract your natural tendency to route back to a familiar subject. You can actually make people feel heard instead of the opposite. Very helpful as a parent.
I was so proud of myself when I had this epiphany ALL ON MY OWN!
Concepts like active listening are usually things I need to have explained to me, but for this one, it just hit me one day. It was shortly after I had one of the MOST frustrating conversations I can ever remember having, to the point where it didn't even end, we both just walked away. But I couldn't let it because I so often felt this kind of frustration when speaking to people so I let my mind analyze it until it just clicked: neither of us had been *listening* to the other person! And I realized this had been a pattern of mine. That's when I began actively shutting-up & just listening or allowing others to lead the conversation. It was truly revolutionary. Still don't like small talk, but conversations have gotten sooooo much more satisfying.
omg. i learned what it is just now and realised that’s what has been hurting me my hole life - active listening. especially with my mother. i listen so intently, because for me it’s very disrespectful - not to be fully engaged - , picturing all she is saying. and she talks in so irritating way, without conclusions, i don’t understand usually what’s the point of this conversation. all my intense listening and picturing the situation go in vane. i always rage on her because of it. all my energy looses for not showing her my rage. l just realised why i got so tired when i small-talk with her. omg. i must relax my active listening
I dated someone who was autistic, and his dad and sister were as well ( all clinically diagnosed as so ). They all all displayed these traits in different ways, but I loved being around them because of these differences. I wonder if I too might be on the spectrum because of certain behaviors and lack of understanding human interactions at times, but I've never been diagnosed. One of the most difficult things about being in the relationship though was that my boyfriend never saw his differences as beautiful and valuable. He knew multiple languages, had such a beautiful eye for macro insect photography and saw the world in such a lovely way, but he felt that feeling of being "other" being different more than he saw all his amazingness.
As a person who works with kids aged 3-11 on the spectrum, I really appreciate you talking about them not changing themselves ☺️
I am Autistic and I got my diagnosis when I was 28 years old. This video made me cry a little because it made me remember my school life and how completely different I was, without understanding what was going on with me. Now I work as a Gestalt Psychotherapist and one of my focus is to help people with Autism understand themselves. Thank you so much for your videos, I really enjoy all of them ☺💜
I’m AuDHD, and just last night read a paper from 2022 showing that autistic people don’t necessarily have deficits in social communication, but that problems arise from interactions between people with mixed neurotypes (e.g., autistic vs. non-autistic), through the Double Empathy Problem. Essentially, it boils down to a mismatch in expectations and ability to code-switch or otherwise adapt to people with differing communication styles. In fact, in this study (and in the experience on myself and many others commenting on it), using the neurotypical deficit model, it was the neurotypicals in the study with the deficits in communication, not the autists, who got along with each other better than neurotypicals got along with each other in non-mixed situations. Because of the way we’re processing information so differently, we may struggle to pick up on or to express neurotypical social cues, but we’re usually able to adapt (because we have to in order to survive), whereas non autistic people are more likely to be weirded out by us immediately and never attempt to bridge that empathy gap. This has always been the key difference in my interactions with others, now that I think about it: whether or not the person I’m talking with vibes with me, it comes down to whether they judge me by their own expectations of me or adapt their expectations of me to fit me as I actually am, which determines the rapport and success of our interaction.
Side note: Wednesday’s reaction to the surprise party wasn’t as much a lack of understanding the social cues and as issue of rigidity and perseveration making the cues she definitely got an unwelcome distraction. She missed the clues before the reveal, but the reaction to the reveal was negative because she wasn’t prepared for the change in plans, and wasn’t ready to disengage from her task. I had a similarly bad reaction when my parents surprised me with a new car (pre-diagnosis) because in the moment, all I could see was the unexpected loss of my best Autobot friend of ten years, not the joy of the 17-year-newer model of my beloved Civic. I even made a joke as we first arrived that it had better not be for me because I’d never give up my buddy as we first arrived, because I was initially told it was for my dad, and (I thought) the idea of it being for me was hilariously ridiculous… when I saw my mom’s face, I realized it was a surprise for me, and then I basically had a mini meltdown/panic episode while I tried to process the loss, the gratitude, and the pain I was causing and unable to stop causing with every passing second. Even after explaining what was going on in my head years later, my neurotypical parents still can’t quite understand it.
"I wish I cared a little more."
That line resonates with me quite well.
I tend to enter situations - every situation I can - with the mindset of "Approach with apathy and you'll never be disappointed."
Although it helps with my anxiety and such, keeping me from panicking and worrying, I get chastised for not showing enough emotion. Thus, I've been dubbed "the quiet kid" at gatherings, among various other, harsher titles.
"I wish I cared a little more."
It's not melancholic. It's not self-pity. It's not making oneself be what others are. It's simply a statement. Not caring, though her and my norm, seems not to be the norm for others. It's difficult to operate as a knife among forks or fork among knives. The metaphor is interchangeable.
I forgot what my point was here, or of there even was one, but my words still stand.
"Neurodivergent people aren't broken. They are just different" I love this! Because we are treated like we are broken
I like the sentiment, but my all-but-complete inability to maintain social relationships kinda makes me feel broken.
@@Touay. I totally understand because I deal with that often enough myself. But if the majority of people were like us then that probably wouldn't be a problem. They are Called Neuro-typical and we are called Neuro-Divergent. So their brains are typical or the norm and ours are divergent from that. But what is normal is based on what "most" people are. Most being more then 50%. If they were more like us and less like them then we would be neurotypical and they would be neurodivergent with no change in the behaviors. It's really simply a matter of numbers. There may be more that are "the norm" then not. But there are still quite a large number of us. Many masking all day long trying to appear "normal" and so we may not know it until you get close enough to them. We aren't broken just different. The point being that the key is to find people like you who will accept your differences. That's what I've had to do. Once you find your "tribe" so to speak, it's a whole lot easier to accept yourself for who you are.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference.
@@Brigsgirl22 Thanks. I really needed some encouragement today. ❤
@@Touay. Glad I could be of help. I've been where you are believe me and much appreciated when I was given encouragement from others. I hope you find your people and things get better for you ✨️
As someone with Aspergers IRL, I love this analysis and the messages in this video!Thank you for informing people about Autism and explaining what Autism is and how people can better interact with them.
Growing up, I had to deal with extreme lonliness from constant social rejection or social neglect from my Neurotypical peers. Whenever I tried to be myself around my Neurotypical peers, I always end up emotionally hurt, misunderstood, people misinterpret me all the time, people think that I'm arrogant or selfish when I'm actually not, or people are scared off by my tendency to fixate on my special interests in a more intense, passionate, analytical way than most people would. I always fantasized about having the kind of best friend who would always be there for you and always stand up for you no matter what, and it was like a fairytale, like something from a children's book about friendship that was real for my Neurotypical peers and my Neurotypical little sister whose positive social experiences sound like an absolute fantasy to me, but never for me. I still want to experience those positive social experiences and even find a husband whom I don't have to mask around, who I can express my full emotions around without them telling me that I'm doing something socially wrong somehow, and who will accept me for me.
But despite my negative social experiences brought on by my Aspergers, I am quite gifted when it comes to academics and art to the point where most people who meet me IRL consider me a genius. But when that genius comes at the expense of normal social experiences and a normal social life, sometimes I wonder if it is really worth it or if I would be happier if I was born Neurotypical.
I have had these same fantasies and have been considered a genius as well.
Seeking out other neurodivergents has been rewarding for me personally. I am either ADHD or AuADHD (leaning toward the second one) so I can be a bit bubbly at times for some people, but seeking out more NDs has made my kids feel less isolated for sure... And I am starting to feel it as well although it is hard to make friends as a mom. Good luck to you!
PS We can't choose our traits and happiness is kind of fleeting anyway... NTs have lots of things to be unhappy about too. You might like the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, about choosing what we will struggle with in life.
All of what you said hit close to home for me (I was diagnosed late last year with Asperger's) and it just damn hurts but everytime I make a friend I end up hoping that "they are the one"
As fellow aspie. This sounds like me. Bad at social cues but I get the best grades in class. I'll marry you!
The hug gets me every time.
I know it’s not the point of this video but I’ve been a massive fan of the Addams family since I was about 6. Read hundreds of the comics, watched the 64-66 tv series numerous times, seen every movie they’ve ever made with the Addams family title, and the Wednesday series might be my favorite so far since the original series because they continued the original theme of explore different ways of living and love while showing and bringing awareness to different issues of the day. 11/10 for me
I have an asperger's personality and thanks to this series, Wednesday Addams has become one of my favorite movie characters. I really relate to her. Mostly it's how she's really intelligent, but hides emotions a lot because she doesn't know what to do with them.
This! I never saw it this way... Not knowing what to do with all these emotions. So true. For me expressing some emotions would demand a theatrical skill - it is just not natural to me to react to some things like other people do.
My son is 5 years old and lvl 3 non verbal autistic. I cried at the part you said how lonley being different can be. Something that has been on my mind for him from day 1 after official diagnosis. His communication is by echoing movie quotes to me.. lol he is into lion king right now so when he is upset he says "run away momma (instead of simba), run away and never return".... or "you disgust me" (from live action lion king). I hope he finds kind-hearted friends in his life ❤
I think I just found younger me-
I wasn’t nonverbal, but I did that a lot and my brothers just rolled with it-
Autistic here, but level 1. However, I had delayed speech as a child. I always quoted movies. Movies are such a big thing for so many of us regardless of our diagnostic level and I think it's because movies help us study human interactions and get better at them.
Have you heard of copy and paste behaviors? I was never non-verbal but am autistic and have come across it as a way of explaining how I approach some social situations. If a situation is close enough to a previous one, I can take what worked for me in that one and copy/paste it into this new interaction. From the outside, that sounds similar to using movie lines to communicate: "the character in the movie said this when they felt sad and I feel sad now so I will express myself the way they did"
I had this experience with one of my students. I was told ahead of time that he was on the spectrum, but it was as a "warning" to accept bad behavior. Luckily, I had prior experience because I have family, friends, and their kids who were at different levels.
This young man was very organized, always did everything the same way when he came to put his stuff down, and was exceptionally bright with great questions and conversation about the material. He was just very business-like. It was during Covid year, and we had to have an assignment daily, so I had one content day, then one notes day alternating. He hated the notes part and didn't want to do it because it's not part of his process. So he showed frustration the same way a gifted student does. He didn't see value in it. I explained each time that we had to turn in something daily for attendance and that it didn't have to be word-for-word long notes, maybe just bullet points for new things he learned. I did get buy-in, and that's the only "behavior" thing i noticed. But I can see where people would see that as defiance or talking back.
As I said. I was lucky. My nephew is severely autistic and my brother and sister-in-law were really good about learning how to help him and relate to him. The student's mom kept apologizing and saying, "I know he's a handfull," but I just reassured her that he was fine and that I liked him.
I am neurodivergent--specifically ADHD. I know throughout my life I have trouble relating to people. I can see it in their body language that we're not jiving, but I can't always figure out why. Sometimes I relate better with others who are neurodivergent as well--our conversations will easily jump around all over the place. Having said that, I have a lot of friends, both neurodivergent and not, who care for me for who I am. This was a great video!
Would be nice if you analyze Enid next. Lots of people have read her as having ADHD. And folks who are AuDHD (like I suspect I am) have heavily identified with both Wednesday and Enid. Great video!
Wonderful video on autism. Thank you, for bringing it more to light. Just one thing I’ll mention that I’ve come across many therapists believing is that autistic people lack empathy. Most often that is not the case. In fact, we are extremely sensitive and affected by other peoples pain. It’s overwhelming and we don’t know how to express it. Which is where the misconception comes from. And it’s hurtful to hear and be misunderstood in that way…especially from professionals.
Once again thank you for your videos. I always enjoy them 😊
Agreed! My son has ASD and he is empathetic but had to be taught how emotions play out on the face. When very young he would laugh so hard when another kid got hurt and cried... his reason though was because he honestly thought the kid was making a weird face to be funny and had a cool trick of making their eyes water. Once he learned what it meant, he knew laughing at that situtaion was not appropriate so he adjusted.
I think if more NTs realized how much effort and thought goes into NDs trying to do things "our way," they would try meeting NTs in the middle more. And that's where NTs can lack empathy for NDs. I'm so sorry therapists have been under that impression of ASDs lacking empathy! Being misunderstood and underestimated like that -by a professional in particular- is probably so incredibly frustrating as well as hurtful. All piled on top of you trying to process the other person's emotions. That's a lot.
Definitely! Most of us are hyper empathetic, even.
I know I am neurodivergent and unofficially on the spectrum. People have always been odd to me. I remember being a kid on the playground trying to understand the strange customs and behaviors from my peers. At four years old, I told my mom I was worried about my career because I couldn't pick between being an author or an artist. I thought I was really good at masking, but my friends knew from the start.
I’m neurodivergent due to growing up disabled and learning to navigate life in a different way. I had moments where I really resonated with Wednesday, having the feeling of, “This is who I am. I’m not going to apologize for being myself.” And it felt empowering. Wednesday has her faults, but she’s also a good example of owning who you are.
In what way are you neurodivergent? What do you have?
It really touched me when you described how at the moment where Wednesday could have expressed sympathy, she went straight for the next question, (or factual inquiry, shall I say,) and that's okay! Simply by having the conversation, she demonstrates, how much she cares.❤️🔥
I’m autistic and would like to offer a gentle correction. Firstly, thank you for continuing to promote the message of "different, not broken" when it comes to autistic and otherwise neurodivergent people. It's clear that you're passionate about helping neurotypical people better understand and engage with their neurodiverse peers. That said, please consider moving away from language that suggests autistic people lack empathy/emotions/intuition, etc. (examples in this video include 2:36, 7:10, 11:18, though it also happened in CT's Lilo & Stitch episode). This contradicts your core message by measuring autistic people against a neurotypical baseline, which is common in the deficit model of disability.
In reality, we are often deeply (sometimes excessively) emotional and empathetic. We just experience and express it differently than most neurotypical people have learned to recognize. For a long time autistic people have been described as lacking "theory of mind," but neurotypical people struggle just as much to understand our internal worlds. As you hint at around 9:30, it's not a one-way deficit - it's two people being on such different wavelengths that neither one intuitively understands what the other is trying to express.
As a neurodivergent person, I deeply appreciate this video for the validation and kindness shown toward neurodivergent folks.
I'm gifted/HSP/whatever one might wanna call everything-is-intense-and-I'm-smart-in-a-way-that-is-hard (like, finished college at age 17 and also have a lot of behaviors and thought patterns that are in a Venn diagram with ADHD and ASD). Most of my close friends are also neurodivergent and/or come from other countries, and I find that those folks share the feeling of being "other" and not completely getting social cues as expected. I do observe that often people think neurodivergent folks are antisocial, but in truth a lot of us are highly social and empathetic but also don't react the same way neurotypical folks do in any given situation. I think in general a lot of neurodivergent people I know are actually more thoughtful, kind, patient, and loving than neurotypical people because we know what it is like to be bullied and outcast.
This is beautiful! I love the positivity and acceptance here. I’m Autistic + ADHD, and didn’t know the name for my experiences until the last year or so (I’m in my 20s).
A lot of this information is true for a lot of autistic people, but autism is a spectrum, and all of us present differently. Oftentimes autistic women present differently than this, because we tend to mask more often than men do.
For me, I can be very excitable and show my emotions when I feel safe, but when I’m at work or social events, I do often go more flat affect, because of extreme social anxiety and sensory overstimulation. I (like many autistics) have extreme emotional empathy, but I don’t have as much cognitive empathy, which means I feel it viscerally when my loved ones are hurting, but I often can’t predict their thoughts like neurotypicals seem to be able to.
I’m proud of my neurodivergence, and I love seeing positive representation!!
my best friend is autistic, & this helped me understand so much. i am definitely the "soft & sensitive" one in the relationship & never understood how/why she wasn't. thank you for this!! 💚
Thank you for this careful, thoughtful analysis. Love your videos!
Just a little note: Some people with ASD do show emotion. It's not a mandatory symptom. The way they show it is likely to still be somewhat atypical (some are quite good at masking, though).
I am on the spectrum. In Wednesday's interaction with Thornhill (as well as some others) I can't quite tell whether she is trying to connect or to antagonise. She would probably recognise that her blunt approach can alienate others and cause fear and discomfort even if she can't always tell which emotion she provoked specifically.
I also feel like in real life, the social pressure to conform, to twist yourself to the expectations of others can help create a facsimile of social social skills even though it' more like applying the rules from a code you don't understand. Wednesday's detachment is (from my experience) unusual and typically Addams.
And well being in a family that supports AND are divergent themselves and expect oddness... That seems to work out similarly in real life. Supported autistics in autistic and ND families seem to thrive compared to their peers who have to mask/struggle in their personal AND public lives.
This was a helpful breakdown and very relatable. I haven’t seen the show but I’ve seen the “I’ve really tried…” clip of Wednesday & her friend several times. Always makes me tear up and reminds me of a high school friendship that fell apart, and how it may have felt through her eyes. (Me being more like Wednesday) Fabulous acting, and fabulous analysis. Ty as always.
When trying to explain my neurodivergence to others (high functioning spectrum) I compare it to emotional/social dyslexia. It isn't that I do not feel emotions, I just have trouble recognizing them, both my own as well as those of others.
I am neurodivergent but I really like hugs, since I usually don't understand verbal queus, the non verbal parts of relationships are easier for me to relate to
This hits hard, a lot I needed to hear. I am hearing impaired and visually dependent (despite visually impaired/ legally blind). This seems to mean that I can be considered neurodivergent. There’s a lot I had to learn socially growing up. I wanted social interaction and to feel normal as much as possible but evidently always hung on the fringe or forever outcast. Still learning, in that way but also how to stand my ground and patiently show others or remind them that I can’t always be expected to carry the weight of normal people expectations. My workload, due to neurodivergency and disability, is already higher than average normal persons. I want to be normal, to do what normal people can, and some things I can but need compassion when I can’t.
Just show someone compassion/kindness.
Thats all we need.
You almost got me when you said trying to conform would be a betrayal to ourselves. I've been diag' as neurodivergent a couple of months ago. My whole life had been a succession of people telling me I should show more emotions, show more interest to the people around me or that I'm weird in the way I think/act/talk. Thank you for saying we're not broken because we are neurodivergents!
the writing in this show is AMAZING. they made being "weird" normal.
One thing is that we do feel things fully. We feel emotions, we feel empathy. It's the emoting that doesn't come naturally. Facial expressions are hard work and exhausting. Speaking in a monotone with resting face and clinical language isn't beamcause we don't feel things. It's just a change in how we express them
I think the focus on direct speech as an autistic trait is a case of being biased by American culture. Dutch and Nordics would mostly consider a lack of superficiality as a way to show that you already believe there is a connection.
Thank you for clarifying that Neurodivergent is not a synonym for autistic but simply a type of it. I have ADHD and CP which is a neurodivergent movement disorder.
Well... I didn't expect to end up in the rabbit hole of questioning my neurotype today, but here I am 2 hours after watching this video buried in tabs of articles on autism. I'm now reanalyzing my entire life through a different lens because the more I look, the more I find that parts which never made sense before are kind of falling into place. If this is anything like my past identity explorations, I'll be in label limbo for months, but many thanks to the video and commenters for making me think about this. Even if it's an invalid connection, I'm learning a lot about myself in the process.
"label limbo" is a good way of putting it. I can relate.
Hi! This is a great video and I love the examination of people with autism in the Wednesday series. Here are just a couple of small notes on language regarding neurodivergence that might help everyone!
*We usually try to use person-first language, ie: instead of saying someone is autistic we say “a person with autism”.
*”Normal” is a word we tend to steer away from, instead saying things like “neurotypical”. The word “normal” is really loaded in the neurodiverse community.
*There’s a common misconception that folks with autism lack emotion or empathy, but very often nothing could be further from the truth. We just don’t always connect emotionally or express emotion in a neurotypical way.
This video is a great examination of how people who are neurodiverse sometimes struggle to interact with their friends and peers, and love the videos here at Mended Light in general!
As a fellow autistic person, I can definitely agree with the last point about emotions but as for the first two I don’t really care if someone says I’m not normal because I know I never will be and I don’t want to be. Some people don’t like the word normal but I think rather than trying to erase it from our language, we should focus on removing the negative stigma around not being normal. Also ‘person with autism’ means the same thing as autistic. Autistic is just quicker. I find when people say person with autism it seems to imply they think I shouldn’t want to be called autistic as if being autistic is different from being a person.
Just my personal views on the matter, no obligation to agree of course. :)
as someone with ADHD and ASD, i 100% agree with all of this!! ^^^
i also wanted to add that some autistic people are more hyperempathetic (like me!), some are hypoempathetic or have no empathy at all, some are hyperempathetic towards animals/inanimate objects/etc but not people or vice versa, etc - it's a very diverse thing. i've seen some people headcanon Enid as hyperempathetic autistic and Wednesday as hypoempathetic autistic and i can definitely see it ^__^
@@fluffyvoid2619 I agree with you. I'm not diagnosed autistic (my director believes I'm high functioning, I just haven't bothered getting a diagnosis yet) but I do have a physical disability diagnosed and I prefer being called a disabled person over a person with a disability. I see no reason to avoid being called what I am.
*I prefer autistic. For me autism is not a condition, it's just a part of my identity. I am autistic, just as I am a nerd, a software developer and polyamorous.
Of course this labeling is pretty personal, but most autistic people I know rather use autist or autistic than person with autism. Person with autism feels belittling and overcomplicated to me.
*Normal vs neurotypical or allistic is a good point. Normal emphasizes how we are different from allistic people in a dehumanizing way rather than a descriptive way.
*So true, it's hard sometimes. I can be totally overwhelmed by emotion and just not know what to do with it. When my partner tries to help me by asking how I feel I'm like: I don't know? I feel a lot. Mostly BLAAGH and a little of BLBLBLrrr, I know it doesn't make sense but I don't know what I feel, just that it's a lot XD apparently that's called alexithymia, which is common for autistic people.
There is debate whether to use "person with autism" or "autistic person". As an autistic person, I generally prefer "autistic person" but it simply depends on individual preference.
As someone who's ND (ADHD, plus there's been some talk about looking into Aspergers as a possibility) this show was....a gut punch but in a good way. I basically used the show to explain some of my quirks to my partner. Though I tend to be better at masking than Wednesday is (But I compare it to AI art, it's not perfect and there's always something a bit off) and it kinda helped him understand where I'm coming from on a lot of things. That it's not a lack of caring. I care...I just don't show it like "normal" people do. But I do show it.
I like the AI art analogy, lol. It's so accurate😅
I'll be using this comparison too. I've used the original Spock and the newest series Spock as well. The scenes that Ethan Peck's Spock has with his fiancée have been a source of treasure. They feel deeply and show it, although differently.
As someone who has been plagued by my autism my entire life, to me the most unrealistic part of this entire series wasn't the monsters, it was that people still tried to connect with Wednesday, that they didn't give up on her and tried to understand and give her a place amongst them.. that simply doesn't happen in real life sadly. Those of us who are different are outcasts, ghosts, or even subject for mockery
Wednesday broke and healed my heart at the same time, as an autistic person that still longing and working on my late diagnoses.
It was difficult to see her struggles, things that i´ve understood and past throug, but it was harder to see how people could make room for her being and getting better on human connection with love and it wasn´t a option for most of my life.
The hardest part, on my perspective, on being autistic (with or without diagnoses): people neuronormative respecting theirs needs and at the same time respecting yours, even without understanding it too much.
People are often easy to judge and misjudge others.
The hugging scene at the end of the episode always gets me emotional.
I just discovered that I got adhd and i don't know what to feel or to think about it. Thank you for your intelligent and kind words about neurodiverce people - it helps me to process my thoughts and feelings.
As someone who has both ADHD & autism, I am very pleased with how many representations of ADHD/autistic people in movies & tv we are seeing lately.
Wednesday, Evelyn from EEAAO, Katie & Aaron from The Mitchell’s vs. the Machines, etc.
Very encouraging to see people like me on the screen being super-awesome and not being cast as some kind of burden to the people around them.
Excellent Episode, thank you for that Jonno! I am on the autism spectrum (diagnosed recently at age 37) and it is really hard. Just being around people: I feel like in a play and I'm the only one who didn't get the script and never nowing what is going to happen next.
Trying to recover from family and teachers not knowing or understanding what is going on. Always labled as shy, socially awkward and lazy, always underperforming and not meeting the mark while doing my best. My diagnosis was a huge relief, but on the outside I mask just well enough that people tend to forget that i have limitations and instead of an adjustment in expectations, I am still supposed to be "more normal" which is soul crushing. Even though they claim to understand my diagnosis.
I still feel nobody can see who I really am and I don't even know who I am because of having spent all my life so far trying to be who I was expected to be and failing.
But who really knows who they are I guess, talking to people about that, the issue is downplayed and it's said that everybody feels that way, or so I am told.
Also I feel emotions extremely deeply and I care about people and not fitting in or offending/hurting others on accident, but it doesn't show on the outside, so it is easy to assume that I don't care. Easy to be misread/misunderstood.
Animals are the only safe connections in my life.
Yeah I hate the whole, "Everybody is a little autistic or ADHD sometimes."
Good for you, buddy. I'm a lot like that ALL the time! Like they think that since they've occasionally experienced something similar once or twice that ADHD isn't real or that "You're no more Autistic than the rest of us." Like, I don't need to be "more" autistic to satisfy some NT's expectations of me.
As an autistic person who grew up in the theater, I feel everything you said❤
"...not broken, just different". You have no idea how much I needed to hear that. Thank you!
Really appreciated what was said in this video. I can be split down the middle - I can either come across very monotonous and uncaring or care so much and get told I'm too emotional. It's incredibly difficult to find where on that line I'm expected to be with every single individual relationship.
i’ve lost the vast majority of my close friends recently because of a lot of what wednesday went through and what you described. i hurt people without realizing it and said things that were taken completely differently than i meant, or they couldn’t understand me and expected me to be different, called me gullible or heartless or that i was lying to them, and it’s caused me a lot of pain and loneliness. this video was exactly what i needed to see. thanks jono.
Watching this video and keeping in mind the conversation Wednesday had with Morticia when she was first being enrolled into the academy, where she says something and Morticia says in response "Finally a kind word for your mother" made it click in my head exactly how much it is that Morticia understands Wednesday and how her brain works.
I'm on the autism spectrum and I just want to thank your for this content; expressing that we bring value to the table and that we're worth accommodating. So much other content is focused on our deficits and masking capabilities and what autistic people are expected to do for the comfort of others, but to be honest, just presenting as "human" consumes soooo much bandwidth that it's exhausting and personally, I have to withdraw to recover from the depletion.
I think that a lot of what I see, at least in the experiences of my friends and I and our kids... Is that seeing the various levels of neurodivergence is also important.
Like, my daughter with an ADHD diagnosis and her cousin who is pretty severely autistic from a genetic microdeletion. And then remembering how hard it has been to realize the "oh hey, maybe the reason I always felt and was treated by my family as explicitly different (eg. I literally just told my partners I need a flow chart for all the subtext in a 'normal' conversation with my folks 😂😅) is because I AM wired different and that is ok" ... Like finally realizing I am neurospicy and learning what flavors as an adult is helping me be a better parent and a better me.
So yes, Wednesday might be coded autistic, and I wouldn't be surprised, but even that diagnosis we need to be aware is on a spectrum, as well as that a lot of things we see as symptoms for things are more ... Studied in guys. Like we all know a male heart attacks symptoms, but women's can be identical to panic attacks and only differentiated by the EKG and blood tests.
I’m going to be honest- I am neurodivergent and I struggle so heavily with trying to get people- neurodivergent or otherwise, just anyone who isn’t similar “enough” to me- to conform to my standard of “being.” This channel is really helping me to realize the true differences between people and also that other people struggle with this too. Hearing this perspective is really helpful! I love this channel now, even more than Cinema Therapy (which is saying a lot!)
Autistic here *waves* since I was a kid I always thought I couldn’t be autistic cause I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum where I feel waaay too much than nothing really and I want so desperately to make connections it comes off like wow, and I was abused and conditioned to understand basic social ques or else; so now in my 30’s and my last therapist and I worked out I’m the way I am cause all these reasons AND autistic. I switched to a specialized therapist for autistic individuals who experienced a lot of trauma in the name of conforming and it was very eye opening. Being autistic isn’t the same for everyone and having shows like this display autistic individuals even a little is helpful. I hope that the mass media companies can do some research and one day be able to show a bit more of the whole spectrum, so that little kids and their parents can realize ohh maybe our child is just a bit different, instead of forcing them to conform “for their saftey”
As an autistic person I appreciate the way you describe neurodivergence. Understanding is what is needed most. Thank you for spreading awareness.
I was diagnosed with autism last month and I can definitely recognise myself in parts of Wednesday's experience, but I'm also reminded of the vast differences in autistic experiences. I'm high masking and try to blend in, usually I succeed, but it also means that people are less sympathetic when I fail and it has been a literal nightmare to get help wich in turn has lead to depression, anxiety and obsessive compulsive thoughts and behaviours. I'm very empathetic and often take on other people's feelings like they were my own wich makes it super difficult to engage in the world around me.
In many ways I'm the opposite of Wednesday, even if we both are autistic.
I teared up watching this video, I didnt know how much I needed to hear "Neurodivergent people aren't broken they're just different."
Thank you
I kinda got the vibe from how she handled her “emotions” as it is pretty similar to how I handle mine(not healthy btw). She builds up her walls all while pretending she would rather be alone, when in all reality she really cares.
Something I'd like clarification (and maybe a whole educational video) on: what exactly makes someone neurodivergent vs "different"? Because sure, people with autism, ADHD etc. think and see the world differently, but technically speaking EVERYONE does. When does someone's unique perspective and way of processing things make them neurodivergent? How deviant from the "norm" does someone have to be before they're no longer just "unique," "weird" or "eccentric"? How is the "norm" established in the first place? How do we determine whether someone has a form of neurodivergence or simply shares similar traits? What types of psychological conditions are considered forms of neurodivergence, and why? Are there disagreements about what things should or should not be in that category?
My daughter is neurodivergent and it is such a struggle for her in school. 😢
She is in forth grade now and has no friends. She gets bullied and teazed a lot. And as best as I and her therapist try to explain to her that she is unique not horrible she still feel heavily depressed. It's heart breaching to watch your child go through this and not being able to help😢😢😢
I have asperger's and have all the associated social struggles. I really appreciate the way you model compassion and empathy, it helps me relate to NT people in a way they can more easily understand without making me feel like I'm completely faking it
00:50 - 00:56 🖤 I got so emotional each time I saw the 2 Wednesdays interacting(have you notice they have the same height?^w^
My beautiful 6 year old son was diagnosed with autism right before starting kindergarten, but I knew he was autistic since he was 3 years old. His dad refused to believe it right up until the diagnosis was made. I think a lot of parents are afraid to see what is there because they think that a diagnosis of autism will mean that there is something wrong with their kid. But from the moment I first suspected it, I was not remotely bothered by the idea that my son might be autistic. I loved him to death and knew he would be the same unique kid after a diagnosis. And I knew that with a diagnosis, we could focus on, and develop his unique strengths. I don't know what he would be like now if we had ignored the signs; but I do know that with early and consistent support, he is set to conquer the world.
Also, as an aside, I was never diagnosed, but I'm pretty sure I'm neurodivergent myself. This video really resonated with me. I have struggled with trying to anticipate how people will react to me for my whole life. People are always getting mad, hurt, offended, or, most often, just plain put off, when I least expect it. I don't want my son to struggle like I did.
i related to wednesday except i smile haha. I like that when wednesday was talking to bianca that you mentioned that people should be happy that theyre showing interest instead of micromanaging how people show empathy and making people feel guilty for not doing it the way they want. I have never been good at comforting people, i dont do hugs or crying so my way of showing empathy is offering solutions to peoples problems rather than telling people i feel sorry for them. I have thought for a while that i may be possibly autistic so when people mentioned wednesdays autistic traits i was like no wonder i relate lol.
The hug felt round the world. It's a meaningful moment that resonates because Wednesday does not hug anyone. The fact she not only let Enid hug her but hugged her back is a big step for her character. It's still interesting to note that she still initially resists, pushing Enid away, but you can see the moment she tells herself, this is okay we both need this and thats a wonderful thing.
Wednesday in her previous versions was super smart, perceptive like a psychic, very logical and somehow like an adult. She was like super human child earlier.
It's been long since I felt so seen. Thank you.
As a peer-reviewed autistic person (with ADHD, but I think that doesn't play a huge role here) I heavily related to Wednesday from the beginning. It still hurt a lot, when my then-partner, who is also AuDHD, but also has childhood cPTSD on top of that, pointed out how Enid's rant when she moves out also applies to me.
I've been alone at home for a month now, everyone else is on vacation, and tonight I broke down because I was so frustrated how I looked forward to being alone for weeks or months before this, but I can't handle it when I'm alone.
So after some trigger-seeking and a lot of crying I am now in a state where I finally have the emotional and mental capacity to watch this video that was on my list for so long, and it's soo healing.
Your main goal seems to be to teach neuronormative folks how to accept neurodivergent people for who they are, but today, you are teaching my neurodivergent ass how to accept myself for who I am.
Again, thank you so much.
I mean, I haven't watched it yet, but my take is neurodivergent is anyone who thinks in different ways from others, so all of the Addams Family would be that. I find it fascinating how much these characters speak to us, that from a simple comic making jokes that straddle the line between quasi-anti-sometimes-pro-xenophobic commentary and misanthropic criticism of American mythology can be so adaptable across half a dozen generations.
I think it’s because they bring the “dark side” of human beings to the front. Their macabre ideology is something we all think but push down or don’t show because it is not socially acceptable.
On the other hand, I understand that this is for a new generation, but I do miss the days when none of the Addamses were self-aware enough to recognize that the world doesn't comform to their values: there was a power in the way that everyone else had to accommodate their values because of the sheer magnitude of their personalities. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think he's specifically referring to neurodivergence officially. Not just people who think different but people who's brains actually function differently from typical brain function. Autism, ADHD, Turret's, etc... Anyone can change how they think, but someone who is truly neurodivergent can't change how their brain physically processes information.
PLEASE make a longer video talking about autism. You explain it so well, and it would be really interesting.
Pet peeve on autism descriptions. Autism is NOT a lack of empathy. Autists are some of the most empathetic people I know, sometimes even debilitatingly so. But our algorithm for experiencing and expressing emotion is fundamentally different so we misinterpret and misunderstand constantly. And then neurotypicals (including researchers) think we don't care.
ASPD understands but doesn't care. ASD cares but doesn't understand. Big difference.
yeah and she constantly says.... she doesn't care.
@@moraynerblacksmith5686 Exactly. This is why, for me, Wednesday is not autistic. Not this version of her, anyway.
THANK YOU! I'm Autistic and I'm too empathic