Cessna 421-C Crash Monterey, CA 13 July 21
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- LINKS:
Flightaware (ADSB Data)
flightaware.com/live/flight/N...
Flight History:
flightaware.com/live/flight/N...
Aviation Safety Network:
aviation-safety.net/wikibase/...
Live ATC: www.liveatc.net/listen.php
Finer Points Flight Training App:
www.learnthefinerpoints.com/
Flying Eyes: flyingeyesoptics.com/
Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=529500... 
Наука
Juan, I am an instructor and corporate pilot in the Monterey area. I believe she thought she was taking off runway 28L. That is the wind favoring runway most of the time. If you look at the Monterey 5 departure it calls for a right turn at 1100ft exactly what she did. The fact that she only read back the runway assignment once makes me think she had it in her head she was taking off 28L and when she started to make the right turn she realized she was going the wrong way, tried to tighten up the turn and get on heading, and she quickly began to get behind the aircraft. Look at the chart for the Monterey 5 departure and you’ll see she flew the procedure for 28L.
Thank you for this report, Juan. Eight years ago, we were at IHOP with my elderly mother-in-law, who was seemingly fine throughout the meal except that I noticed she was speaking just a little more slowly than usual. Hardly noticable, and she said she was 'just tired'. As we exited the restaurant, she 'tripped', caught herself and kept walking. She blamed her shoes and laughed it off. We dropped her at her house and watched her walk inside, but something nagged at me and even though we were nearly home, eight miles away, I convinced my husband to turn around and go back. She had collapsed just inside the door with a debilitating stroke that left her disabled for the remaining six months of her life. I will forever wonder if she would have been alright if I had insisted, even against her wishes, we leave the restaurant and go to the ER. Hearing this experienced, veteran CFI speak gave me deja vu. Now, I have no idea what her actual circumstances were, or if she was having a medical issue or not, but to everyone reading this, if you notice that a friend or loved one is even a 'little' off...if something doesn't seem 'quite right' ..especially if they're getting up there in age, TRUST YOUR GUT and get some immediate help. That is all.
I could not agree more. The worst thing said, are those things that are left unsaid. Worst thing that can happen is nothing is wrong and you look like you cared. Best thing that happens is you are right and save their life.
A few days after New Years of 2019, my mother-in-law came home from running errands and saw my father-in-law sitting as he usually did in his Lazy Boy chair, but he just looked at her and was holding his throat; he couldn't speak, but looked distraught and was trying to communicate. According to her, he INSISTED she did not call 911 (that did sound like him) but she said she told him he HAD to go with her to the hospital if he didn't improve. If I remember, she did not take him until the next morning. By then, the damage was done. He was getting better at times, but I really believe his ultra picky eating habits did him in as he refused to eat the hospital food given, such as soups and whatnot. No, it had nothing to do with what we usually think about hospital food being bad (it wasn't, I ended up eating some of his untouched food) it was just he was very stubborn and did not realize his skipping meals was doing worse for him. His goal was to eat a steak, and the doctor even told him at one point he was within a couple weeks, but then he just wouldn't eat, tube went back in his stomach, and he went south. He died in May of 2019. My mother-in-law did mention a few days after he went to the hospital that a couple days after New Years she noticed his speech was a bit slurred. He got annoyed with her for her telling him he was mumbling a bit.
Good for you Debbie. Women seem to have a better awareness of this then men. Can’t second guess yourself. She was fortunate that you noticed and went back.
I absolutely AGREE.
Years ago- after witnesssing these pre-stroke criteria- I learned an anogram F.A.S.T. It quickly described the things to look for if you were uncertain or concerned that someone in your presence was "strokin'" out.
Please refresh my memory re: FAST
My wife and I are both healthy, active, and "sharp", but getting up there. We check on each other a lot!
Juan,
I’ve known Mary Ellen for over 20 years. She was a Gold Seal CFII/MEI/ATP and a highly respected staff flight instructor at the West Valley Flying Club in Palo Alto, CA. She owned that 421 for over 20 years and knew that airplane like the back of her hand. I instantly recognized her voice on the radio and it sounded normal, maybe a bit slow although I had not personally spoken to her for 10 or so years. She was a lovely lady and will be sorely missed. RIP Mary Ellen! Blessings to the Carlin family. To fly West is a check ride we must all take.
There's a reason why you retire at 65 in the airlines. Other people seem to be debating as to whether she had a stroke or something like that, it's a shame that stuff like this still happens. I guess that's why you need a valid medical certificate to fly, but even then, it doesn't guarantee that you're always healthy.
Cal Worthington was 92 and still flying his jet when he died.
@@rangerider51 Cal was decapitated. He was drunk as a skunk screaming down route 6, slides under an 18-wheeler and pop it snaps right off.
@@bgb702 HAHA ok Creed XD his decapa was pitated
ABSOLUTELY a very sad loss of an obvious highly regarded pilot...fly high Angel... 😢😢😢
I didn't know Mary Ellen well but I did know her as a colleague in the bay area. She was a very experienced pilot and very familiar with the marine layer. She would probably not have made the obvious mistakes. I'm suspecting a medical issue or instrumentation failure. My sincere condolences to her family.
Wow! I am glad I will never fly with you..
She did sound confused & somewhat flustered which may have led to the accident. This possibly may have been because she thought she could be getting into something above her experience level. Her earlier short flights reveal at least some lack of currency in weather experience. Very sorry for your friend.
Your honesty is commendable Juan. Thank you.
@@richardhowe5583 who you talking to? The dead woman not here?
@@brandoncorynagley92388 If you can't figure it out you need to vote for Biden again in '24.
It's always sad when we lose anyone. Condolences to the family/s.
From the recording she sounds nervous and incompetent which would lean more to a medical event rather than mechanical as she was such an experienced pilot.
That's is what I thought when I heard her voice.
Some people freeze up in life or death situations. Until you’re in at least one, you won’t know it.
Maybe it’s impossible to be an experienced pilot and never been in a panic situation, but I don’t know this.
Most likely a minor stroke.
i agree
I would want to listen to other recordings of her, but I too upon hearing her response was thinking stroke.
Mary Ellen was my flight instructor at Palo Alto. RIP. She sounds inattentive - the takeoff clearance readback is concerning...she would not have been that sloppy. wondering if she was having a medical episode of some kind?
Exactly my thoughts!
It's interesting to see that, because of how many people have been trained by this amazing lady, there are lots who know what she normally sounded like and how she conducted herself. That's unusual for aviation incidents. I'm sure it will help greatly with figuring out what happened here.
You should reach out to the NTSB to provide a statement. It’s relevant evidence.
I agree with the previous comment… if you knew her well and this didn’t sound like her, you should give a statement.
With was known as she was, and as frequently as she flew, I'm surprised ATC didn't notice. Monterey + surrounding districts never used to be a major metropolitan area. I hesitate to say it, but I think I'm not quite impressed with ATC. That said, maybe he noticed her being "off" but gave her the benefit of the doubt. Wish he'd at least done like the PIA 8303 ATC and asked if she was "comfortable…"
I can never understand any of the radio traffic at any time so I'm glad to hear that even Juan couldn't hear what this guy was saying. I would think that clarity and diction would be important skills for someone working the tower but that never seems to be the case.
For an experienced pilot, there is just something really odd with the comm, it reminds me of the Las Vegas controller's stroke incident a while back.
I agree she doesn't sound right and is making mistakes that a flight instructor should not make.
My first thought hearing the radio traffic was that this was a student pilot. After finding out that she was an instructor and that there was a passenger on board, I wondered if maybe the passenger was PIC? I'd like to know if Ms Emig had been training with Ms Carlin? If not, the radio calls don't sound like an experienced pilot with full faculties. A stroke or other medical condition might explain the non-standard communication as well as the strange flight path. My condolences to the families. 😢
She had a pax, dog, ATC, and an aircraft possibly in motion and with no CVR or black boxes, we'll never know what she was dealing with.......so everyone's speculation is worthless; save it.
@@danastewart3091 Wrong! It is NOT worthless. It is important for pilots to learn from others mistakes. This type of back and forth, even the speculation, is helpful to build recognition primed decision making skills for the future.
I know that because of this discussion I will be more likely in the future to consider evaluating the mental acuity of a fellow pilot who displayed this type of out of sorts communications. It's a component of Crew Resource Management.
My EXACT thoughts!!! That female ATC's decline in comm's is a dead ringer for this event. Eerily similar.
She did sound out of sorts as other comments have indicated. She sounded like she was going through the motions, but just barely. Such a sad outcome.
To put it nicely, she sounded..."tired".
I picked up the same view. I wonder if she had some sudden health issue.
@@jadams3427 Yes, tired or under some emotional strain. She didn't sound intoxicated or under the influence, but it did sound as though she was not at the top of her game.
Indeed...the pilot didn't sound at all confident. From the speed involved, did she lose control on instruments?
@@bluehornet6752 I suppose at this point it difficult to tell what happened, but perhaps she could have lost control while on instruments as you mentioned. So sad.
I was wondering if my ears were not working, but clearly this controller is mumbling and not speaking clearly based on your comments. Good to know I'm not going deaf. Cheers from Winnipeg.
On the basis of listening to ATC traffic on blancolirio and elsewhere, I'd say that the way ATC operators are taught to speak the world over is TOTALLY WRONG. They all gabble. They speak as if what they were saying was of absolutely no importance. They speak in a monotone, with no gaps between words. There is no attempt to enunciate or to EMPHASISE the IMPORTANT words. It is no wonder that so many people can't follow what they are saying. The fact that there may be pressure on air time, and that much of what they say consists of stock phrases, is NO EXCUSE for these grave defects. Worst of all, they seem to be taught to speak like this.
@@samuelfielder agree. ATC is 1920s technology. Ridiculous.
@@samuelfielder As a non-professional, perhaps you need to just listen.
@@williampotter2098 Well, I have listened to many, and still can't follow them. I continue to think the gabbling, the monotone, the lack of enunciation are all indefensible. They think they are beingh professional; they aren't.
I agree. Listen to the JFK ATC they scream and yell at pilots, threaten to beat them up, meet them in the parking lot, etc.
She didn't sound right when she was talking to the tower controller. Almost sounded like she was impaired
Wow she really didn't sound okay I agree
Cliff High would call it a vaxxident.
Planes falling from the ski.
@@40yeartrucker25 Agree
can't believe ATC is this laid back at an airport with a 700' ceiling
007 ovc really isn’t too big of a deal in general, unless you’re new IFR or something like that.
Why wouldn't they be?
@@rileyk99 I've been into Monterey many many times. Their tower has always been excellent. In fact I've been corrected for not making proper calls. I'm surprised at this controller.
I am an ATP with over 10,000 hours mostly in Part 135 and Part 121 Jet flying. I have flown with pilots in their 70s and 80s in general aviation leisure flying and many of them are in great shape and sharp as any good pilot. Actually I learned a lot from those old timers. My mentor was well into his 70s and he introduced me to aerobatic flying. Some of my fondest memories of flying were with those old timers handing down their time earned precious knowledge for which I am forever grateful.
I'm sorry truly. But at what point should pilots stop flying? And drivers stop driving? When do they need to have people step in and I have to wonder this because my hubby still drives but yet makes some questionable turns that puts me in a broadside position with an oncoming car. Maybe he doesn't care, maybe he is unaware, maybe he wants me dead. I just hate driving with him. I want to hide his keys. We're both over 60 and him in his 70's. God help us and God Bless this poor lady. An uber for that other person would have been cheaper and less traumatic to get to Sacramento. This is all hindsight and armchair. What do I know just worry in my elderly years.
@@JennyWinters Hahaha. That’s a good question. I think each individual ages differently so each person should be evaluated separately. I do agree some people shouldn’t be driving or flying and it’s scary. Your husband does sound like he shouldn’t be driving.
I won't ride even as a pilot with a sp pilot above 70 sorry
My sincere wishes that you can recover from this. I have not and it's been 7 years.
@@alanmydland5210 What are you sorry for? I was merely stating my opinion as a younger pilot respecting older pilots. I feel sorry for you for your rigid limited mind.
Why do we have such poor communication with ATC these days? More than once I have had to get very stern with ATC telling them "PLEASE slow down and speak clearly so I can understand you. My life is depending on that right now."
Ive noticed this a lot with American ATC..even if they are not busy they talk vey quickly..I feel sorry for any one who doesnt have english as their first language
Amen to that!
I've watched many aircraft disaster/crash videos here on UTube and I have to agree with comments here on the lack of speaking skills with some ATC personnel. I understand air traffic language is abbreviated with codes and mannerisms specific to flying, not like talking on the phone. But, even with a lot of listening to aircraft radio traffic and being a retired LEO, how do you comprehend some of these controllers who insist on talking so fast it's like they think they are in a fast-talking contest. Are they trying to impress someone? Just like glevideo alluded to, he was right on point with his complaint, and good for him for calling out the ATC where some pilots would probably acknowledge the communication yet not fully understand what was advised or said.
Her history doesn’t seem to agree with the nervousness in her voice or sketchy read backs.
She sounds elderly
@@maximusaviationchannel 74 yrs.
Age wouldn't have been a problem provided she was speaking confidently and reading back calls clearly. But instead she sounded at best nervous/distracted/stressed, and at worst like she was in the beginnings of a medical episode e.g. stroke, which seems to be the general consensus at this stage (pilot incapacitation).
@@sixstringedthing Yes, this could easily explain it.
East Indian in tower very hard to understand.
Sounds like the pilot was starting to have a physical emergency
The pilot's poor read back and failure to grasp the 'hold at 5000' if not VFR lends one to believe that she was well behind the curve even before she got to the holding point of 1-zero. RIP to both.
The air traffic controller should have stopped her takeoff and told her to go back as she didn't sound entirely coherent.
Might be a case of a disease striking, unfortunately it happens now and then.
Something was not right with this pilot before takeoff.... ..just hearing the read backs is telling
....rest in peace
Respectfully.......Rudy
@@rudyramos5911 Totally agree - experienced flight instructor mangles standard communications and departure flight instructions while mumbling, sounds like medical emergency - evolving stroke.
That was my first impression. Was she groggy? Not enough sleep? Over-medicated? She just didn't sound sharp.
@@ehsnils
In all honesty, the controller didn’t sound too sharp either.
That being said, I’ll bet the controller and pilot had a working familiarity with each other developed over years of working together and they were probably familiar with each other’s style of communication. It would be interesting to hear other exchanges in previous days and compare how they sound.
That controller sounds like the last tech support person I tried to talk to.
Personally, my heart goes out to the dachshund. UPDATE: I just read an article in which the mother of the passenger said that her daughter had stopped driving in 2012 because of surgery she'd had on her brain. The mom went on to say that she'd planned to drive her daughter to where she wanted to go, but the pilot had offered her a flight. The reason for the trip was so the daughter could be with her son while he was undergoing medical treatment. The article stated that the bodies have yet to be found. The pilot was 74 years old; the passenger was 61.
Utter sadness. She had her hands full in a instant. Blessings to all.Thank you for sharing your story
Then lack of radio and procedural discipline plus what I perceive to be some mental acuity issues that come out in the pilot’s speech has me concerned about the pilot’s abilities.
Pretty much guaranteed that the controller will indicate something similar to your comment in the NTSB interview--didn't like the first readback, didn't like the second readback, but probably wasn't sure what to do about it at that point. In over 20 years, I had just one pilot whose readback attempts on the ground, combined with the level of intervention that I knew had been required from ground control when he had arrived at the airport earlier, resulted in me deciding to cancel his clearance and asking him to call approach control to discuss his situation with a supervisor and facility manager. After a review of the tapes, the pilot ended up being denied any further clearances of any kind and was referred to a safety officer at the FSDO. That is highly unusual, but once in a while it might be the better alternative to outcomes like this.
When I was an EMT I recall a woman that has upper back pain and spoke like this pilot. She was having a heart attack. Women have different symptoms than men do. I'm just speculating of course.some women have no symptoms at all. Another time a woman was sweating from her forehead with shortness of breath and she was having severe heart problems.
Perhaps she was in tne beginning stages of a stroke or even a heart attack. This will be a doozy of an investigation.
I'm thinking exhaust gas in the cabin. She sounds confused, but she's a CFI at her home airport flying an aircraft she's had for a decade.
Would the passenger have recognized any out of the ordinary behaviors with the pilot? It saddens me to think that there was someone there that might have recognized any indications of unusual behavior with the pilot and intervened. Of course the passenger could have been occupied with anything else - I'm not assigning responsibility when it is unwarranted. It's just that having a second pair of eyes right there that might have prevented this tragedy go unutilized is heartbreaking.
Thank you Juan, for this speedy report and update on this accident. For all of us familiar with Monterey and the aircraft of particular interest. My sincere condolences to the affected families.
Hi Mr Brown, your coverage of these incidents are greatly appreciated your comments and coverage is very good! Thank you so much.
San Carlos and Palo Alto are also right under the approach for SFO, so she would've been highly experienced with navigating fairly complicated airspace.
Exactly.
I could understand maybe 1 out of 5 words that the ATC spoke. Maybe that's why she nerved out?
@@vonstroop9866 Pilots with her experience (if she was current and proficient) don't "nerve out". This should have been a milk run for her.
@@williampotter2098 I'm sure you're right. I was nerved myself trying to make a quick understanding of it. And I'm sitting at home...
@@williampotter2098 I've been a pilot for 26 years and having a controller who mumbles like that and only clearly says every 5th word when I'm on takeoff into IFR would be unnerving and I suspect I will think that in another 20 more years of being a pilot. When listening to these recordings, remember that they are far higher audio clarity than when you're actually hearing them in the plane.
Very detailed report Juan. Seems like pilot incapacitation since no pilot communication and right turn into high ground just before the crash.
MontereyCountyWeekly reported:
Meanwhile, veteran commercial airline pilot Bill Sabo, who lives on the [Monterey] Peninsula, says that among aviators, there's speculation that the plane suffered a failure in one of its engines, causing it to veer in the direction that took it to its doom.
"She started to climb and for some reason I haven't figured out yet, she turned right after takeoff. I've looked at the weather reports for that period of time, and it was reported to be 700 and overcast, meaning clouds were down to 700 feet…in a high-performance plane, you're going to clouds right away.
"Why she turned right, I'm not sure. It may have been she lost the engine. If she lost it on the right engine, with all the power on the left, it would push the airplane to the right," Sabo continues. "She got to a point in the climb, and this is very difficult, one of the most difficult thing to do, is balance this airplane with power on one side, no power on the other, and trying to keep it level."
@@RaoulThomas007 Both engine teardown will help with this.
Thank you for putting these out so quickly. It’s good to stay informed.
Listening to her voice, I would never have gotten on that plane !
100%. Sounds strokish to me.
She sounded like a student pilot, I was shocked when he stated her experience, I almost don't believe it. Definitely sounds like she was having a stroke or something
Came here to say the same thing. Her speech sounded slightly slurred, and how she was responding sounded like she wasn't all there.
She definitely didn't sound right.
@Night Rider and the poor doggy
Some East Indian gentlemen make pretty good engineers...I've worked with lots of them. Some of them have worked hard to develop (or were raised in an environment that taught them) better English pronunciation and grammar than many of our school children. This tower controller was not one of those gentlemen.
Just to protect this comment thread, the same holds true for any ESL learner. Some are fluent, some are incomprehensible. And neither is this an indication of intelligence.
Comprehensibility is a must for this line of work. I couldn’t understand the guy either.
I had trouble understanding him also.
Lufthansa flight crews have the best spoken English of anyone I've ever heard on the radio.
@@stay_at_home_astronaut KLM was right at the top also. A German flight attendant told me the Dutch are the best English speakers in Europe. The kids watch mostly British TV since Holland is only 100 miles across the Channel. This was 1991 FWIW.
You have opened a whole new world to me.
“Where the aircraft entered the house” is not a phrase you want to hear. RIP. Edited to add that the clearance wasn’t to an airport, it was to a SNS VORTAC. Practice flight? Maintenance flight? She was going to go VFR to someplace else? And she sounded a bit confused and not confident. As for the radio, her phraseology and her procedures were unprofessional. Among other things, you don’t say “ready for takeoff.” You say “ready for departure” or “holding for IFR release.”
The person on the radio may have been the passenger, not the pilot.
The incorrect phraseology may just be lax procedures in the area and everyone getting used to it (not that that's good...), but the somewhat slow and confused readback sounded a bit disconcerting - considering this is supposed to be an experienced CFI. Then again, maybe it was the passenger. The clearance to SNS VORTAC itself is apparently pretty standard for the area, as it seems to be very common to go IFR through the marine layer, then VFR on top to wherever you want to go.
@@gordonrichardson2972 - You make a very good point. This would render all speculation about the owner/pilot based on the radio communication completely irrelevant.
@@gordonrichardson2972 An epiphany! And as an instructor, maybe a student. We don’t even know if she was PIC. Among all the conjecture, myself included, someone brings us back to the fact…we don’t have clue.
As painful as it would be the pilot’s son should be asked if that was his mother’s voice. Are there other recordings of her comms?
Juan, I say again, You Are The Best. Many thanks for all you have done and continue doing. More than well done.
Her communications aren’t even close to correct, something was wrong. The Tower guy is far from stellar as well.
I agree the radio calls don't sound right (as an experienced ME pilot).
I agree. Not what you expect from a high time ME IFR pilot. Tower too, most notice pilot stress and work with them. Age seems to be a factor in these reports? But,being 74, there comes a time when what drives stress can't get the brain and other parts of the body to deal with it all at the same time.
My 1st thought was a rookie IFR pilot due to such poor radio procedure but with her experience level I tend to agree it was a medical event.
The ATC controller reminds me of flying in Mexico. Very hard to understand someone that mumbles an doesn’t enunciate correctly. I hope the NTSB picks up on this and does something about this air traffic controller because correct enunciation is critical in this business. Like many other comments, I think the clue to this is in Mary Ellen‘s voice and manner of speaking. I’m sure people that know her would be able to say whether this was her typical ATC voice or something out off the ordinary. If her age is truly 74, you have to think about cognitive or medical issues as a probable cause as well as mechanical issues. It’s too early in the investigation to speculate but because of the ATC recordings and flight path data, we have clues.
UPDATE: Pilot/Owner age 74.
Well, was she a CFI or a CFII…
@@jmwSeattle CFII according to her linkedin profile.
@Night Rider There could be a physical or mental problem with anyone.
Blood clot? DVT or PE- Deep vein thrombosis or a pulmonary embolism? Recently vaccinated?
All these old folks who still think they've got the 'Right Stuff'. So many kill themselves every year in their airplanes.
The poor woman sounded completely out of it on the radio.
An IFR takeoff into low IMC is as serious as fricking heart attack! There's no way to explain to an inexperienced pilot or non-pilot how challenging this is.
Interesting to listen as an aviation enthusiast, but sad to hear about the loss of lives in this and the fire fighting aircraft crash previously. Rest In Peace all departed souls.
Good Report Juan. The Best on the Internet.
Thanks for the update JB. Hope pilot, the passenger and her puppy are ok, even though they may have been injured.
Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏽🖖🏽
Thank you mr Juan, Prayers for the loved ones, am not an aviator, but my grandfather learned to fly from a man named Laurie Young in the early days (learned to fly in a PBY Catalina) and my uncle Robert flies gliders out of Herlong for years and your work on this channel is very important, I must commend your professionalism, once again, rip to the lost souls and prayers for their loved ones.
RIP to the pilot and passengers, always so sad to hear news like this.
Thank-you for more detailed information. My Dad was a pilot, and the details are very interesting and informative. You bring the reality to it. Praying for the families that lost their loved ones. And bless you, and keep U safe on your flights.
It’s amazing to me how unprofessional some tower controllers can be. Thanks Juan for this update. I could sense your dismay.
The tower guy is difficult to understand. He's semi - mumbling.
and isn't a native English speaker to boot. Yea lets hire people that barely speak English to talk to pilots all day, lol. Only the Govt thinks like this.
@@mitch_the_-itch quota?
@@mitch_the_-itch Easy fellas. "Barely speak English" is just a bit hyperbolic.
@@daveth121864 Barely speaks intelligible English. That was about the worst ATC I've ever heard. Makes me wonder if they've got one of those virtual towers..with the back office in Mumbai. Inexcusable.
For me, he is totally mumbles.
Good for you Juan! Calling it what it is and lessons we can take away will help us all going forward. Sloppy radio communications on both sides may seem small but may also be an indication of disaster to come. It may not be today but it will get you. Love the analysis.
Mary Carlin, the pilot, was an extremely experienced aviator and instructor.
The key word WAS
Age?
@@davidbagley1783 . A reply from another poster said 74 for the pilot, 61 for the passenger.
The pilot sounds elderly. I am thinking perhaps she suffered a mild stroke before takeoff and didn’t recognize it. I know somebody who had a stroke while driving and got into a mild traffic accident as a result. He exchanged info with the other driver, then continued on to work. Coworkers reported afterwards that he seemed dazed and distracted. Several hours later, he collapsed. He was hospitalized and left permanently impaired both cognitively and physically. Had he recognized his condition when the stroke first happened and he had his accident they think he would have been able to make a full recovery.
I thought similar sounds frail slightly confused
@@DoubleMonoLR I hate to say it but it needs to be said every time. 74 is old. Society has gotten to a point that many almost demand to live to see 100 years of age or as close as possible. If such a comment offends anyone in that age range, so be it. There is nothing wrong with getting old. Getting old is earned. Father time is undefeated for a reason. Most athletes attempt to go up against Father Time late in a successful career and they all lose. Why? Ignoring what should be obvious to anyone looking in a mirror. Society has a level of arrogance that plagues each and every one of us in someway and I am willing to admit it. This is a result of our addiction to conveinences that spoil any and all things to be grateful for in life. I am 41 years old and being a guy from Philadelphia, Pa, I personally buried over 40 friends over the years. A generation of good people, that were not perfect, just like you and me and every human on earth. They were young people and a certain industry formerly known as snake oil salesman had a hand in alot of those early exits in life. If I could ask their spirits if 74 years of age is old, the reply back would be something like..."shame on you for asking." The Seven Ages of Man by William Shakespeare sums it up in a few words leaving out the word "woman" but it goes for men and women all the same way. Most 74 year olds are in the 7th stage - second childishness and mere oblivion. My condolences to all those that perished and I hope the families get closure from the investigation. This one is interesting and in 2021 anything is possible and can not be ruled out. Maybe her 7th stage kicked in the moment she boarded a vehicle that she was piloting into the air above homes at a couple hundred miles an hour with 2 additional souls on board, one not having the ability to speak but was not barking in the background. One question that won't get asked and if so, go unanswered - Did she recently receive one or two pins in the left or right arm? If so, being that clotting has been reported, that might be a factor. Hence the reason for informed consent. My family doctor informed me with his opinion and where to look for answers. We came to a unanimous decision being that will only happen if administered to my dead body as I will not bow down to any person or government while I am alive. This same physician to my parents for well over 40 years told them to avoid this experiment at all costs. My parents are older than the pilot. They bow down to this government without hesitation and the panel on the wall can tell no lies. Now I am dealing with the complications that are physical and mental since the narrative read off the teleprompter is starting stink up the place. I love my parents more than anything but I make sure they know they are old and nearing the end, don't let the government give you a push off the ledge. Nothing is free in life - Nothing. Those that left their elderly loved ones to die alone during the past 18 months should be ashamed of themselves. If my parents were both suffering from Ebola, no one would stop me from being at both of their sides all the way to the end no matter how ugly and/or contagious such a condition is according to The "experts". The entire medical community has been corrupted and under a gag order for many years so their advice does not get my approval from anyone in the white jacket club. Let's see if she rolled up the sleeve or not. I am not flying anytime in the near future but going into higher elevations as a pilot that has been administered the experiment is not something that should be happening. No drugs and alcohol and no untested emergency approved injections via big pharma companies that if investigated, probably killed more people than cancer. I will never go in for a screening or go in and beg for more years as if anyone deserves to play God. It's 4am. My mother is not well and it is bothering me. I baseball batted my television over a decade ago and to hear it on at their house makes my blood boil. Now the booster is being repeated over and over and over again. This crash is a metaphor that is exactly what is happening to this entire nation I call home. It could have possibly prevented, regardless, it ended via a crash and burn. Soon, no one will even utter such words as "74 is not old" since the estimated population for this country in 2025 is forecasted to be under 100 million. I wonder where everyone will be immigrating to outside of this place I call home? Most people in America don't have enough to make it thru the next 90 days. The backhoe business might be the one to get into. Then again, every funeral director I speak with said they would have gone under without the assistance they received and have been forgiven, not having to pay back. Not one comment brought up this woman and possibility this could be a result of having a complication from a recent jab. I take it that most in the comments took it or want to avoid the conversation. That is why this nation is lost and divided. I don't lean left or right in case that is a thought one might have...I am more of the middle finger type meaning I don't pick sides...Lets brainstorm and compromise like adults. I wish everyone nothing but the best in life no matter what the future may hold. Just please ask questions and demand answers before following the crowd or government pushed conclusions.
@@DoubleMonoLR 74 is getting to be the point where cognitive decline through normal aging starts to take effect. Driving sometimes is an issue, let alone flying a high performance, complex twin in IFR.
@@johnkeith2450 yeah, everyone is affected differently. Not everyone can be Bob Hoover. And frankly, with the son saying his mom was super safe and a great pilot leads me to think he knew she should probably stop flying
Clinical stroke is often exactly as you propose. The victim is unaware of his situation. The extreme form of this is the patient with a one sided paralysis who complains that he is having to share his hospital bed with someone else because he simply cannot process the lack of sensation and control. The early signs of stroke (slurred speech and impairment following procedure on takeoff) may have evolved into a one sided paralysis early in flight. I doubt such an experienced pilot could otherwise have performed this way.
Thanks Juan.
I grew up in San Carlos. It’s like local news.
My best to the pilot and passengers and their families. Also condolences it it comes to that.
I had a hard time understanding the air traffic controller, those guys are usually clear and concise.
From listening to her voice, her read backs to ATC, she may have had a medical condition which incapacitated her. Very sad
I don't think that at all. Sounds like a typical rook pilot.
@@mitch_the_-itch did you watch/hear the initial report about the pilot’s decades of experience and being a well know CFI ???
@@raycoleman3183 Jumping to the conclusion of a medical condition is a leap to far.
@@mitch_the_-itch I don't know, she just didn't sound right in the communications with the tower, and definitely not what you would expect from a highly experienced pilot who is very used to operating in areas with difficult operating conditions. The two airports she was listed as operating out of as an instructor are both, so other comments have said, right under the approach to SFO so that's going to be complex airspace to operate in so she shouldn't be having difficulty understanding her departure clearance to climb to 5,000 feet and report if she's in the clear, where she would presumably be cleared to continue to her filed altitude of 7,000, or to hold at 5,000 if she was still in the overcast. That's pretty simple even for a non-pilot to understand but she just didn't seem to be able to get a grip on it which is definitely a worrying sign for a pilot used to operating in areas with complicated departure clearances to avoid conflict with commercial traffic. The original comment isn't jumping to a conclusion of a medical event, just offering it as a possibility in view of the evidence that she didn't sound right in the communications and the fact she was just apparently unable to understand her departure clearance, which could be a sign of an incipient medical condition effecting her cognitive abilities, which is very bad for a pilot and something that a whole array of medical conditions can do...
@@mitch_the_-itch yet you are ‘jumping to the conclusion’ of the meaning of my reply to you…..since you either missed it or ignored it…..the point was …her experience and qualifications far exceeded that of a ‘typical rook pilot’ and therefore your inference didn’t seem to apply here. Something else was going on……
I'm only a sim pilot but while "flying" in and out of KMRY, which I do often, I listen to LiveATC. I instantly recognized Mary Ellen's voice. Although I've never met this experienced and respected pilot, I am deeply saddened. My condolences to her family.
Sad. Thank you for your videos. They are very informative
pilot didn’t sound very coherent
Was essentially, that is, incoherent.
Another sad accident. My condolences to the families involved.
Great initial assessment, Juan!
How very tragic for all involved. My condolences to Family, Friends and Associates.... R.I.P.
This is as sad as it gets losing a gifted aviator and the love of aviation.
Highly experienced, local instructor pilot with a decade flying this airplane. Whether medical or mechanical, this is a very difficult loss.
Thanks for this update.
Excellent assessment for what you have so far.
That ATC guy... was about as clear and easy to understand as placing an order at a fast food drive through on a rainy saturday night.
The pilot was clearly well behind the curve running through post start up operations and it didn't get any better. Sometimes you just need to park in the runup bay for a little longer and get everything squared away and under control.
Remember ATC audio edited for brevity in the presentation.
I fly in and out of Monterey often and was based there for a while. On clear days the views are stunning. On summer days, though, MRY is a magnet for the marine layer and a VFR-on-top clearance is quite common.
Local convention and etiquette is to cancel upon reaching VFR-on-top. In fact, approach will nudge the pilot who reports "on top" without cancelling…
Great Update Juan, thanks for sharing
Love your videos sir 😎👍🏽
It would be interesting to hear her audio with ATC from an earlier flight.
I thought aneurysm or stroke as soon as I heard her speak.
I was thinking the same thing. She did not sound right for someone who is both an ATP and CFI.
Exactly what i was going to comment, and as other replies to you, the comparison to previous recordings and this may point towards a medical event rather than mechanical, have you heard the ATC woman who had a stroke mid shift, on air, and she just carried on clearly trying hard through what was happening to her, her speech was at times okish and then very slured and made clear mistakes, pilots picked up on it and kept asking her if she was ok, until it got to the point where they asked for someone to check on her, i thought a stroke ect would incapacitate you but she just carries on, could be whats happened here, or something simela?
@@DJCAntisocial a lot of people have strokes and have know idea until someone else catches on, even then the person having the stroke can be in denial and even combative about it, happend to a friend of mine. Hes fine now , but it was weird
@@DJCAntisocial - While the onset of stroke symptoms can be sudden, it's not unusual for the victim to be unaware that it is happening initially. I too listened to the video of the ATC who suffered a stroke while on shift. The change in her speech pattern was very similar.
The acronym FAST (Facial drooping, Arm weakness, Speech difficulties and Time) has been used by the National Stroke Association, American Heart Association and others to educate the public on detecting symptoms of a stroke.
The five warning signs of stroke are:
Sudden onset of weakness or numbness on one side of the body.
Sudden speech difficulty or confusion.
Sudden difficulty seeing in one or both eyes.
Sudden onset of dizziness, trouble walking or loss of balance.
Sudden, severe headache with no known cause.
Thanks for posting facts and only facts. I appreciate it. Aviation is a such a small community, especially in the Bay Area.
Thank you for presition updates. I noted this issue about READ-BACK also that's it's a necessity. Cheers.
How tragic. May all of the souls RIP.
Condolences to the families.
Every pilot should push record on their phone before taking off.
I don't think that the phone would have survived. :/
I usually have a GoPro running on most of the aircraft I fly. I also have my headset audio being recorded by my iPad. I do it primarily for debriefing and looking to improve my skills, but it is also there in case something bad happens. A poor man's FDR.
She sounded as if she was distressed
Sounded scared. As if the conditions were outside her ability.
R
Or very distracted. As if having some other thoughts competing with her normal routine. As a pro owning and regularly flying a complicated aircraft, her voice sounds more like a novice and I agree the controller didn’t help matters. Is it possible that working a tower of a wealthy clientele airport dulls their teeth.
@@RalphEllis She was a seasoned CFI with decades of experience. I like to think that this was just a normal flight for her.
On some of the threads above, there is speculative talk of the possibility of her having a stroke.
Outstanding video and presentation.
Good evening sir, love your channel! Also looked like to me that your flight aware footage playback setting might be set to 10x. Try clicking on it to cycle through other playback speeds. Thank you for all you do!
My condolences to these families for the loss of their loved ones. 💐🙏
@blancolirio I was in Watsonville on Saturday getting fuel with a friend. I photographed this aircraft shortly after one female occupant exited the aircraft after shutting it down. When I read the tail number on flight aware Tuesday morning my heart sank as I knew I had just seen that airplane and most likely the owner. Such a terrible tragedy. Prayers to the family of the victims involved.
I'm sure the NTSB would like to see your photograph.
@@terrya6486 going to try and contact them now
Did she appear healthy? ie gait.
@@SteamCrane She seemed healthy and normal. Didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.
@@PSYCHEDELIKSOUL Thanks! The prevailing question being bounced around is whether this was a sudden medical event or a long term decline.
Sad day for the family! So sorry for your loss.
You have a great channel and so interesting.
This is by far the most bestest channel on RUclips. @blancorilio thank you man I will be your wing man any time.
I could never be a pilot. I'd always be in trouble for asking the control tower to slow the hell down so I can understand what they're trying to say.
Steve. I am a pilot and I occasionally ask controllers to slow down so I can understand them. They gladly comply.
Thank you for great info
Juan, she checked in with departure. That was her last tx. Controller told her to turn right to 030 immediately. No response. This was just prior to low altitude alert.
It sounds to me like something was wrong with this pilot, an impairment of some type... that does not sound what you'd hear over the radio from a seasoned flight instructor.
RIP.
Yeah, I suspect decompression sickness. She listed scuba diving as a hobby on the instructor information page.
@@RubenKelevra She would have had to be diving within hours of flying and had only attained 2000 MSL in a pressurized cabin. Not a likely cause assuming open water diving (
I know a hobby scuba guy in his 60's in average health who started having episodes of losing consciousness during the day. They're having a time figuring out what is up with him. After finding little to explain it, they started telling him to keep up eating and hydration throughout the day searching for any reason why it's happening. He only really got indication of how bad it was when it happened at his work where a nurse at the office was called in when he blanked out with coworkers. Maybe not a classic stroke but not responding to the world for a few minutes. Maybe not from diving, maybe just an aging thing.
Sad news Juan, I hope their families are ok.🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👍❤🇺🇸
Sad event. Great preliminary debriefing. Keep up the good work Juan.
Thank you Juan! 👍👍👍
Excellent rant on the lax ATC communications being exemplified and expected.
At my Podunk Class D airfield, the controllers will "educate" you very quickly for piss poor radio skills. "Read back all instructions" is in the ATIS here and they mean it.
One pet peeve of mine I'll hear on the radio here are pilots (students?) saying they're "ready for takeoff" rather than "ready for departure." Too close to "cleared for takeoff" for my liking.
How anyone can make out what the controller is saying is beyond me.
once again, excellent, unbiased analysis Juan. Are we seeing more mechanical issues secondary to COVID?
Thank you JB. Cheers!
two souls were on board, pilot was Mary Ellen Carlin, owner of the aircraft, CFI, age 74.
There have been times on these aviation videos when i have heard some very competent switched on ATCs. They have played a key role in bringing an aircraft through an emergency to safety! They were quick to grasp the situation! And totally on the ball! It underscored my respect for these people, and the role they play in aviation safety! It will be interesting to see if there is any focus on this ATCs performance in the various investigations.
Very informative, thank you.
PS - she did come up on the departure freq briefly and just said "I'm on frequency" or something similar
On a totally different note.. You know the RUclips is doing their thing correctly (for once) when every time I see a VASAviation video on something like this your breakdown of the incident is the next suggested video.
Agree.
"Hooold the fuck up" is what Juan wanted to say during the poor ATC-pilot comms, nice save switching it to "phone" ... ;)
Don’t forget olé Mr. Brown is perfect. Stick to the story and save the criticism it had NOTHING to do with accident.
Sounds to me like she was slurring her words on the radio. Her experience doesn’t seem match the what happened here.
Thank you, Juan!
Great informative Breakdown
Mumbling under his beard... RIGHT ON
Enunciation is so important especially in aviation, seems like people could try a little harder.
Agreed, such as no clear speaking skills...no job
Juan, you and I have been around the block more than a few times. I have to agree to almost all of the posts of folks that have known Mary, and their analysis (albeit not factual yet, as we await the NTSB report). Thank you for reporting on this and for further info, Kathryn’s report has other information. Blue side up, and RIP Mary and Aloce..