Another important thing to note about The Good Doctor is that they work with and promote Autism Speaks, which is a really really harmful organization!!
Oh no, autism speaks is harmful?? I’m autistic and I had no idea. Could you please explain why if that’s not an issue? I wanna make sure I’m supporting the right organizations.
@@Misskisslily They promote "curing" autism instead of providing proper resources. It is painful but you may want to look up the "I am autism" commercial from (I think) 2008 and a clip where in one of their promotions, a mother says in front of her autistic daughter that she thought about committing a m*rder s*icude because of how challenging it is to be a parent of an autistic kid. They, overall, are infantilizing and try to make autistic kids "normal" by touching them when they don't want to be touched, making them play in ways they don't want to play, etc.
yeah of course! I would suggest reading some articles about their problematic history bc I’m sure I’m not gonna be able to list everything off the top of my head but they frame autism as a disease that people should be afraid of and that needs to be cured, they advocate for eugenics and spend most of their funds on research that attempts to find ways to detect autism in the womb so that any potentially autistic babies can be aborted , they have pushed theories about vaccines causing autism, promoted types of therapy widely considered to be abusive, and if I recall correctly they have never had any autistic people working within their organization or giving them input.
feel like with how often autistic ppls special interests can center around scientific or “nerdy” themes it’d be honestly kinda common for doctors to be autistic not sure though, most may be undiagnosed or the fact that autistics aren’t usually given the same chances nt folk are..
Honestly kinda the other way around. I'm also a doctor, and have several doctor friends who are autistic. It's quite overrepresented among doctors to be on the spectrum.
i’m autistic and went to hook up with a girl over at her place and she said “oh you’re autistic? you’ll love this” and put on this show and we watched two episodes and then i made up an emergency to leave
Biggest problem with the show can be condensed pretty well by what Jarvis said about it early on - this character of Shaun is written like an autistic *child* not an autistic adult who has lived with autism for 30 years and developed a life and skills and adapted to functioning. The traits he displays are the classic markers of autistic children, which is why some autistic people still relate to them, but there is no way someone who hadn't grown and adapted to living in the world would become a doctor with a wife and children. The show is very odd not because it made up autistic traits but because they portray the adult man as if he is mentally a child, which would not ever be the case with someone who managed to become a professional surgeon.
WOW. This comment is outrageous. Can barely believe what im reading. You dont think theres a single autistic adult in the world who has these mannerisms and traits, or expresses themselves this way? The way this comment degrades children and "child-like" behavior also is disgusting, and riddled with ignorance as to how autistic people have been talked about this way, infantilized and labeled "child-like" "babies" for decades ... wow. "Because it made up autistic traits but because they portray the adult man as if he is mentally a child" Its BAFFLING that you dont see what is wrong with what you've just said. "but there is no way someone who hadn't grown and adapted to living in the world would become a doctor with a wife and children" ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF. Holy fucking shit. This entire comment is unbelievably degrading, you are a horribly ignorant person
From what I've seen of the show, it explains a lot of why he is like that. His father was extremely emotionally and mentally abusive to him. I don't think he grew much from that. Coming from an abusive household, I know it can stunt you in many ways.
No kidding! I legit thought when I saw the previews of it ages ago that the main character was, like, 16 and the main conflict was that the hospital didn't want to employ a *child* who just so happened to be autistic...like the autism made him a child genius. Which is problematic enough but imagine my surprise when this man is supposed to be a full adult. YIKES.
guy really was told to act like a caricaturical, completely lost and clueless autistic kid, except 30 seconds per episode when he has s(t)urgeon superpower surges and is magically very competent, way more than anyone else
The bit on autism goes for basically any disability. I remember watching breaking bad and being so happy that they actually cast an actor with cerebral palsy to play Walt Jr. Though RJ Mitte said he had to exaggerate some of his mannerism bc the character’s cp was a bit more severe than his. There are so many talented actors out there with disabilities that it’s stupid not to cast them for these roles.
Yep. I’m still pissed about the casting of Artie in Glee. There are literally SO MANY actors who actually use wheelchairs and other mobility aids. There was literally no excuse for them to cast an able bodied actor for that role.
As an autistic person I completely agree with Jordan's criticism and I'm so happy to hear you talk about that! I wish they started hiring autistic actors for autistic characters instead of making actors literally mock our body language. And I'm so mad that they treat an autistic character as a baby. You can respect people without patronising them. Edit: Tw: violence, ableism also, the thing he is mocking when he is screaming is an autistic meltdown. A very painful and mentally draining experience. Having it in public can be dangerous and may lead to awful reaction from people around you (like violence from adults if you are a child or a literal arrest). It feels cruel and wrong to make an allistic person act out a weird copy of it and portay it like a temper tantrum.
The meltdown clip really angered me as I felt so uncomfortable that an allistic person was acting it out, cause it felt mocking instead of understanding
I might be a bit of an outlier on this but I actually really enjoy the good doctor. Mostly the doctor aspect. I absolutely agree with the fact that it's incredibly gross that they didn't cast an autistic person to play someone autistic. It's also a very stereotyped and shallow view of autism (white guy is super smart but has tantrums and can't communicate). But I personally can see past that when I choose to not see it as a real portrayal of autism. The issue for me is when other non autistic people do think this is what autism is. Sidenote: i recommend Heartbreak High and Young Royals for autistic characters played by actual autistic people!
So it shouldn’t be on tv at all, based on the fact the autistic community isn’t asking for it at all, I’d say maybe the autistic experience shouldn’t be dramatized, or re-enacted for entertainment at all seeing it just can’t be done right.
Do y’all think they got into some wacky hijinks and and formative mischief growing up alike Lindsey Lohan in the iconic 1998 family/comedy remake of the 1961 classic?
Both in undergrad (a bio or socio-anthropology class) and grad school (sped education masters), we had to watch an episode of The Good Doctor to list all the issues in the episode the prof chose and explain why what happened was either incorrect or implausible and how it harmed actual science and advancement in social understanding and acceptance of autistic people and issues with understandings of anatomy and physiology in pop culture.
Your school experience sounds like the one I wanted lol Nope, I took a film theory class that based every lesson on a different Biblical commandment that somehow featured the Star Trek TNG ‘Inner Light’ episodes, Hitchcock’s ‘The Birds’, but somehow NOT ‘The Ten Commandments’!!!! Shockingly NOT worth 30k a semester. 🤬🤬🤬
@@asheronthehoise4813 Totally valid! I am happy that in a lot of higher ed circles, they are finding new language for teachers that teach students with disabilities, but unfortunately it hasn't translated to a change in what the majors or job titles are for the most part 🙁
i didnt get diagnosed with autism until i was in my 20s. one thing i've learned about our community is that we can be INCREDIBLY good actors, seeing as we have to mask our autistic traits if we don't want to be ostracized for them. thanks for talking about how goofy this show is
exactly!! I can't get diagnosed because there aren't even any private psychologists in my province who specialize in adult adhd but all my therapists have suggested I have autism. I never agreed because I always did well in social situations, was well liked, managed my emotions, and understood others. Then I realized I'm actually working through extremely complex systems in order to replicate being neurotypical. For example, I make decisions on what to say in a conversation by formatting each option in a choose-your-own-adventure telltale type game in order to not offend others. I love choose-your-own-adventure-games because it allows me to practice and model social interactions in a safe space that I can easily reset! Everyone who knows me closely will see my acting exterior break and my apathy will leak through. We truly have mastered social survival!
@@herb_rolls It sounds as though you're masking. I was recently diagnosed with autism at age 29. I slipped through the cracks for many years, despite being evaluated for other mental disorders, because I developed methods of assimulating over the years. If you want to see if that's what you're doing, you can take a free CAT-Q test online. It was a part of my testing process. My score factored heavily into my diagnosis.
@@CreatEr1n I agree especially as they make social interactions into a choose your own adventure novels which is a good indication they found a coping mechanism that works for them in social situations, plus autistic people can hold themselves differently depending on who they are around. mimicking things to make social interactions easier is a autistic trait from what I recall. My boyfriend is super formal with strangers to the point some people find it charming he's so stiff yet polite with people but if you're close to him he's a big silly goof who's just doing his best to make people around him feel good by making them laugh.
The autistic people have super powers trope is so annoying to me as an autistic person. The new predator movie where they directly say autism is the latest step of human evolution. Idk why it upsets me so much.
I just watched the predator movie a few days ago and it was ridiculous how they treated the kids autism (and having that guy with Tourette’s used only for jokes was weird) I have no clue why that’s a troupe
It's eugenics. The functioning labels are in the same vein of categorizing Autistic people as better or worse based on their skills. They want to push a model minority myth to force Autistic people to work harder.
i just don't like the way that media in general is like 'whats an incredibly simple way we can explain this EXTREMELY nuanced condition that affects the entirety of the human brain and consciousness differently in every single case to.... a bunch of allistic people who really don't want to think about it?' its always either 'think of them as brain damage victims' or ' think of them as SUPERHEROES,' like no, if you want superheroes in your movie, just DO THAT. stop dragging actual disabled people who already suffer from sh!t representation into it.
Like, it’s a disability. Acting like it’s some new more advanced part of human evolution is so frustrating because it diminishes some of the terrible things autistic people have to deal with, it’s just a way for allistics to try and make themselves feel better about autistic people, which is weird because they’re just people. You don’t need to pity or treat them differently
it's like... weirdly "eugenicist" in a way i can't pin down. Also the erasure of high-supports-needs autistics or any other autistic people that aren't palatable to allistic standards
the whole “there must be actors with autism” there are! ….now… the FIRST autistic actor to EVER play an autistic main character was kayla cromer playing matilda in “everything’s gonna be okay” in ONLY 2020, just 3 years ago! the FIRST! and she did amazing and the show is amazing and shows so many versions of what autism looks like (which as an autistic person means so much to me) she’s also playing an autistic character in the new monster high cartoon! chloe hayden is another autistic actress playing an autistic character (quinni in heart break high) who’s a very realistic portrayal of an autistic person, there’s even a scene where she was a meltdown that was so realistic it triggered me into having one which kinda sucks but also love to see the realism lol
and actually anthony hopkins, a very famous and acclaimed actor (best known for silence of the lambs) revealed he was autistic a few years ago! so there’s been at least one autistic actor for decades lol
So fascinating to hear about the good doctor. I’m 28, autistic and live with my mom (largely bc I’m disabled but also bc inflation/the housing crisis). My mom LOVES this show. I have just chosen not to engage bc I feel like it would melt my brain to watch or try to explain why it’s messed up. I also want to thank y’all for talking about autism and disability bc I know that (unfortunately) it can be a somewhat contentious subject
Don't beat yourself up for living with your parents, the rent prices nowadays are ridiculously high. You gotta make at least 2 minimum wages to afford a decent place.
@@NGU7754 totally, I have a classmate who's extremely smart and has done a lot of work who moved with her parents during our master's degree program... She has a BF, and she works. The reason is because the rent is ridiculous, she has every right to save herself a lot of stress by moving back in with her parents.
That's me (physically disabled and autistic) and my Dad (loves the show), hope it gets easier living there or you move out if that's becomes an option that you want :)
I am Autistic and I saw a few minutes of The Good Doctor and couldn't stop crying because it was so insulting and spreads so much dangerous misinformation about Autistics. It hurts so bad knowing that Freddie even works with Autism Speaks. I cannot stop shaking thinking about it.
Same here. I didn’t watch any of it but my mom watched the pilot and couldn’t get any further. She said it made her physically feel bad and that she was somehow slighting me by watching it, lol. It is absolutely abhorrent and I’m very glad people are taking the piss now
I was recently diagnosed with Autism at age 38. I remember being a child and reading about autism (I think I was reading an encyclopaedia which maybe should have been a big flashing sign). I was like oh that’s me! But then I saw it represented in media as being usually boys that had no friends, were obsessed with trains and almost non verbal (not that there is anything wrong with that). So I put it to the back of my mind for over 30 years I guess. It’s sad that representation these days is still often so bad.
im not officially diagnosed because id have to pay out of pocket for it and im broke asf. but im like 99% sure im autistic, and it was only after looking thru yt vids of autistics sharing their experiences, not having their stories be told by a parent or some third party, but straight from their own mouth, was and still is so fucking helpful :)
@@unseenmolee I’m sorry, I had to pay a CHUNK! It shouldn’t be so difficult to get diagnosed. If you haven’t already you should look up the Autism Spectrum Quotient (AQ). It’s one of the tests/questionnaires that are used to diagnose autism. I took it before I went for an assessment because I wanted to know if I was on the right track with my self diagnosis. You’ll also find most support groups and communities for people with autism accept self diagnosis, as the barriers to getting diagnosed are substantial.
@@unseenmolee I’m not sure of your age or gender, but another thing to look into is autistic masking. It’s something that many women/AFAB people with autism learn to do to “fit in” better. I believe it’s also significant for any people with autism who weren’t diagnosed as children. A lot of things clicked into place for me once I learned about that.
I've been wondering recently about getting assessed, but I wouldn't know where to start. My mom said when I was a kid that she thought I had some traits, but she was kind of "joking" and never pursued it. Now I'm a 39yo AFAB and really about done with people giving me shit about not emoting, not making eye contact, not engaging in conversation, not "mourning correctly," etc.
@@wideride8320 have a bit of a look online about how to get assessed where you are located, or maybe talk to your regular doctor if you have one. I’m in Australia so I only know about how to get accessed here.
when you learn that the main actor for the good doctor is a huge supporter of autism speaks the clips make more sense - just mindless weird takes on autism that don't apply
@@shavon Autism Speaks is an organization founded around the idea that autism is something that needs to be cured and their goal in research/charity is to work on finding cures. There are 0 people on their board or in any meaningful position in the company. It's just a bunch of people who either know an autistic person or think it's "really really sad." Most of their resources are not for helping autistic people, but for helping others "deal with" their autistic relatives, or looking into what causes autism so they can try and stop it from happening. Hopefully you can understand why that mission is not something autistic people want anything to do with.
@@shavon Don't know how many people are gonna respond to this but: Autism Speaks is a "charity" that puts profits towards "curing autism." If that itself isn't enough to raise an eyebrow, they also put forth many other harmful ideologies regarding (and including the promotion of violently restraining) autistic people. Overall, a charity caked in systemic ableism, with little to no benefit to autistic people whatsoever.
@@shavonAustim Speaks has put out ads in the past that haven’t aged well. People are of the opinion that Autism Speaks believes autism needs to be cured, and that is apparently a really bad thing. I can’t say that I personally agree as someone with a severely autistic niece who is a non-verbal young adult who cannot and will not ever be able to take care of herself. I don’t understand why it’s “bad” that organizations are trying to find a cure for that. The notion that she “just has a different neurotype” (which is apparently the “acceptable” definition of autism) feels incredibly dismissive of her reality- that she lives with a disorder that has robbed of her of agency. I don’t think people care about autistic people like her… they only care about being able to have a new quirky label for their neurosis.
(speaking as an autistic) the thing with the good doctor is that it's almost unfair to call his performance inaccurate. *almost.* by which i mean there are definitely some autistic people who have "odd" affectations and postures, have a flat affect, seem "childish" etc. and there's nothing inherently wrong with having an autistic character with these traits. but because he himself is not autistic (and to my knowledge none of the writers or directors are), a lot of nuance is lost, and it comes across as hollow and mocking. like im pretty sure they just glanced at one symptoms list and ran with it without reading into what those symptoms really are, or how they affect someone's day to day life. and if they ever did look deeper into it, they definitely didn't look into an autistic person's perspective
I think he is 30, It's kinda weird that he is THAT childish, a doctor, with a family, and still display symptoms of a child, like, for example, he doesn't understand BASIC informations, like in that one episode where he simply can't understand what a transgender person is, and keep making questions a child would make, REALLY DUMB questions. Don't get me wrong, I'm 20 and my hyperfixation is Alice in Wonderland, my room has more than 100 books, a lot of toys and posters from the books and movies. I am considered childish nonetheless, but I don't show the symptoms like when I was a 9 years old, when I'm out in public I'm masking and also I adptaded a lot to not seem to weird in my work place, I changed. FOR ME, it seems like the main protagonist in The Good Doctor series came straight out of an "autism symptoms list" on Google.
there’s a kdrama called attorney woo which portrays autism pretty well from what i’ve seen so far. her hyperfixation is whales and her love interest listens to her talking about them
My hyperfixations are more traditional. Movies, TV, books ... Genres like Sci Fi, fiction. I used to draw as a child but then my parents kinda killed that... I enjoy classical music in a manner most people my age would enjoy contemporary music... I'm weird, I know that, and it's okay 😂👍 I just wish people would stop depicting us as some geniuses with no problems... I have never been that lucky, and never will be. Edit: Oh and I forgot the video games. 😂👌
growing up as an autistic person who didn't know they were autistic, i never saw people talk about autistic people with kindness. seeing more and more people actually learn and care about autism makes me feel so happy. we deserve better
@Beans it happens so much more often than most people think. I've had quite a stories like that, and a few people called me ableist by making autistic characters? one person even said that i was "cringe" and "only wanted attention," because my character was autistic. It's insane
I appreciate the support you give to autistic people with the general way you talk about acceptance of others, the way you talk about autism and autistic people, and overall awareness you bring while not talking over us. Autistic people and ADHDers are in similar situations and communities, so seeing popular ADHD online figures stick up for and support the autistic community is wonderful. I have not seen the Good Doctor but have been told the horrible stereotyping and incorrectly explaining and framing autism. I would probably stay away from all media focuses autistic character(s) unless there were autistic writers on the project.
a very common recc ppl give is abed from community and i'm here to give it again, the creator of the show didnt set out to make him autistic he just based him off of himself and then he actually got diagnosed w autism later on, so canon autistic written by an autistic person! he actually helped me figure out i was autistic bc he acts way more like me than the stereotypical no emotions, analytical type you get with shows like the good doctor
my shitty therapist story: the first therapist i ever went to was when i was 15 i said i was feeling a lot of depression and depersonalization he said "have you actually done any research on depersonalization? because that only happens to people with trauma, and you don't have that." this was at the beginning. of. the first. session. he didn't ask me if i had trauma. he told me I didn't before asking anything about my life to make me feel dumb for suggesting i might have a problem.
the thing about hiring an actor who isn’t autistic in a show literally about autism, is that they always make a plot point on how hard it is for autistic people to be hired and find jobs. literally hire an autistic actor then like 😭
Btw, I am not Autistic when I say this. But as I've seen several times in the comments and from friends with autism. If they find ability in acting, they're VERY good at acting. It boosts it. Like how general interests are taken farther in aspects with Autism (I hope what I said came across right there, I don't want it taken harmfully or incorrectly). It's not like there isn't people interested in acting with Autism either, they definitely could've found someone with autism with great acting skills.
This joke has entered the stage where actual funny people never use it and only people that can't be funny without copying someone else's jokes use it.
Every time I hear someone referencing "black. white." I remember that you guys haven't finished your reaction series, and now that you both mentioned it I hope that "one day" it'll come, just like you said. 😌
Dude that's super hype to have the same birthday as your good friend. Makes it easy easier to remember or way funnier when you forget it's your own birthday
as an autistic person i'm really glad that you're talking about this. Really tired of seeing autism presented in media like this or being infantilized. It's pretty sad to see actors mocking us. It's shows like this that makes it harder to explain autism to people since they just go to the stereotype of it being a boy who has special abilities etc
Honestly, after the blatant ableism that was Autism Acceptance month (last month--some of my Autistic moots disappeared from Twitter because it was so bad), it was really great to see discourse where Autistic people can share their stories without all the weird questions allistics throw our way. I have never seen The Good Doctor, because I could tell based on the promos when it first came out that it was straight bullshit. I don't really have the spoons to describe the nuances of what's wrong with the portrayal, so I'll just say there's a lot of "Sure, but not like that," happening. Do Autistic people experience extreme ableism, including infantilization and hostility? Sure, but not like that. Do we often have strong emotions and meltdowns? Sure, but not like that. Do we have strange mannerisms that allistics don't understand? Sure, but not like that. Also I saw they support Autism Speaks so they can go straight to hell. Another quick note: a lot of Autistic people, myself included, find person-first language to be erasure of our disability, since Autism directly affects your brain and personality.
Its a bit harmful to say the "but not like that" when autism is a spectrum. Some people really do behave and relate to the good doctor but what makes it feel icky is the fact its a non-autistic actor. Some people do have meltdowns that way, some do experience infantilism that way.
When i have touch related meltdowns triggered, i will smack the areas of my body that feel the trigger sensation and mumble to myself. My most intense meltdowns i HARSHLY bite my own arms and hands while crying. Meltdowns are different for everyone
fr, its a show for allistic people to watch a fake autistic person like a zoo animal, and plays into a bunch of of their preconceived notions about us without any actual neurodivergent input, whilst also reassuring them that this is a good and compassionate way to view all actual autistic people. and implies that theres some kind of consistent autistic experience that we all conform to ugh. there's just no way for this to be a good portrayal, even before you throw in the allistic actor and autism speaks connections, because the concept of 'its a doctor show but the autism itself is the REAL spectacle' is inherently fcked. theres no ONE problem, the vibes are just rancid. its one of those 'p0!nography, you know it when you see it' things, but 'ableism! you know it when you see it'
@@teratsukielizabeth543 I agree with you. When I said, "...not like that," I was referring to the actor's poor portrayal of very real Autistic behaviors. He doesn't do it with the nuance that would make it resonate with me. I go through very difficult things as well. Sometimes I get so overstimulated I go catatonic. But allistic people see that and, because they can't relate it to the sensory feelings, believe it's just a thing we do and not a reaction to something. He's not acting out the internal overstimulation but the visible response, and it makes it feel disconnected.
@@queenwednesdayart yes. ADHD but I have had sensory meltdowns and it may not be the same but it something always triggers it. Usually its sound for me over a period time or over stimulation (I never left a 4+ hour family gathering even to date without crying at some point because of overwhelm) and if it happens fast my reactions tend to be more volatile because I didnt have the time to find a way self soothe like during slower triggers. Sorry for the rant. But I just wanted to say I empathize with the infantilization and lack of care put into those portrayals, and that it never "just happens" without a reason even if the reason isnt always obvious.
any one else weirdly impressed by Jarvis knowing that J was that 10th letter of the alphabet off top or am I just dumb? like normal people don't just know what number each letter is right? Someone CONFIRM I'M NOT STUPID PLS
yeah i cannot with CBT therapy. to me it just feels like lying to myself. like excuse me? i'm not just gonna try and retrain my brain to think happy thoughts if i'm sad. i'm gonna want to feel sad and learn how to work through my sadness. and the same thing, i just never felt like the therapists i've had have ever tried to challenge me to get better. it's just a very soft focus, "oh that must be really difficult" like bitch, i need you to be an active participant and guide me on my outlook and how to get better.
cbt is one of the only therapy methods proven to legitimately work/improve one’s condition across all socioeconomic backgrounds. it’s an amazing thing and it seems like you just don’t really understand how it should be done or have had a bad experience personally. you don’t have to like it, but it is literally one of the best things psychology has EVER created
I reccomend looking into dbt, it's more about life skills and stuff, I have to do it for my bpd but I've heard it can be really good for autism too (I'm also autistic for context)
@@eskykitty the effectiveness of CBT can heavily rely on the provider though, since the video is talking about people with ASD (like me) it's a good example. Studies have shown CBT can provide benefit to autistic adults but since the standard CBT steps generally require a good understanding of internal emotions this can be challenging for autistic people to fulfil, (there are other examples but I don't want to write a thesis), these kind of restrictions mean that while yes CBT can be a great too, especially for neurotypicals, for neurodivergent people the care is only good as the provider and if a therapist isn't willing to adapt the CBT to work with you and your limitations it's effectiveness can be strongly decreased. I don't know if OP is neurodivergent, but if they're trying and it's the therapists not applying themselves to molding the therapy to work with OP's restrictions it really might not be their lack of understanding, (god knows the amount of therapists I've told repeatly I'm autistic, I have a limited recognition of my emotions you need to be patient with me, who have gotten frustrated with me for not being able to tell them what I was feeling.)
@@NicrophorusVesp you’re absolutely right, that’s why i point out that they’ve personally had a bad experience. only providers who specialize in providing cbt to neurodivergent people should be the ones doing it. though obviously they’re hard to find, expensive, a bunch of other issues obviously play into the accessibility of that. but cbt can absolutely help people with autism if it’s done correctly so it’s really frustrating to see it boiled down to what the op said about it above. those kinds of remarks may make people see it poorly and never seek out treatment that may really help them. that’s why i hate to see people painting cbt or other treatments with such a broad brush. i mean therapy being successful in general relies on having a good provider, that’s not only a cbt thing. that’s just all mental health or psychology related treatments.
First of all, love the pod! I can't speak on autism specifically but I have ADHD and I work in basically medical administration. The ACGME (the counsel that regulates training doctors), clearly recognizes that many doctors have mental health disabilities. You can be disabled and you can be frustrated with living your life with a disability. And you can also see positives, or feel connect with a sense of community (especially online). You should not have to see it as a "super power" or be told "you are so strong". And you shouldn't have to see it as something that means you are useless or be treated like a baby. This is something I had to learn for myself, including unlearning bad stereotypes. Basically, its complicated. It can't be summed up as "good" or "bad" it is just real life. And TV isn't always great at showing real life.
The stuff with the trans women being played by cis men is that it happens so often, that at this point I'm even happy when it's at least a cis woman playing the role of a trans woman (which is still not ideal lmao, would much rather have trans women in those roles)
No joke, this show is actually a big reason as to why it took so long for me to realize that I'm on the spectrum. My mom used to watch it, and with everyone saying that is was "good" representation, I just kind of believed it. I remember how thrown I was the first time a coworker of mine asked me if I was autistic, because even years later, this show had stuck in my mind of what autism in a person looks like. After doing research and hearing real stories from other autistic people online, I was floored by how deeply I related, how all these odd things about myself that I'd always just written off as parts of my personality were actually shared by so many others. Even then, I didn't truly believe it for a while, I was afraid that I was just searching for some sort of label to explain the parts of me that I'd never understood. Then my family got tested, and it turns out that three out of the four of us siblings are on the spectrum somewhere. My mom stopped watching the show shortly after that, thank fuck.
Jordan, hearing you talk about your experiences with fear around immigration are really valuable to me. Even when you're doing everything right and above board, it's difficult to fully commit and plan ahead for your future when you're afraid you could get kicked out of the country at any point without warning. That feeling of impermanence is so real and deeply affecting.
An amazing representation that I personally relate to is extraordinary attorney woo. The actress studied austism spectrum and it's super awesome at letting people know that everyone with autism is different! She helped me accept myself as I'm seen as awkward and blunt without understanding that I was doing it until people told me. I think logically like her and i love watching her stim bc it makes me feel normal and able to recieve love :3. The good doctor on the other hand makes it seem like autism is a burden and exaggerated in a bad way. I disliked it very much.
UGH YES I love EAW, it felt so good how people defend her because they know she's capable and good at her job and works hard to maintain respect rather than infantilizing her or playing up the fact that she's autistic -- my one critique is the episode where they meet a client's autistic son, the sound effects were a bit ehhhh and over the top but it does a lot good that it outweighs that one bad episode. but yeah EAW owns my whole heart. I'm gonna rewatch it to recover from being reminded that the good doctor exists asldklsfs
It’s such an amazing portrayal that makes me so happy, the movements along with her meltdowns and her general attitude are awesome, and my favorite part is how educational it is! My mom watched it and I can say that it’s helped her understand me better and sees it in a better light
Yeah I thought it was a little over the top but overall one of the best depictions. I also really love how she uses her special interests to save the day, and they’re framed as good!! And her love interest adapts to her needs, calming her down during overloads by mentioning her special interests and helping her with sensory stuff. It’s really the first example in media I’ve seen of autistic traits being adapted to rather than demonized.
as an autistic person i watched a few seasons of the good doctor a few years back. i watch most media with autistic characters because i am desperate for representation even if it is bad. the conversation on why most representation is bad is often misunderstood by non autistic people. a few people in the comments mentioned not liking the sad boys laughing at the clips of sean. there are lots of autistic people who have meltdowns very siimilar to seans, they can seem exagerated in the show if youve never met someone who acts like that before. similarly his rigid c3po style movements, and weird speech pattern are accurate to alot of autistic peoples experiences and we have been laughed at all our lives for acting this way. i dont think it is the place for non autistic people to critique or laugh at these portrayals and ive never seen a non autistic person talk about autism in a non harmful way even if their intention is good. for me this portrayal of autism is so off because its so forced and inauthentic, not because its inherently incorrect if that makes sense.
As a non-autistic person, I think your reasoning makes perfect sense. I can also relate to your reasoning. My mother has Huntington’s Disease and I try and find what little representation is out there. There was a scene on ‘House’ where 13 (who has HD in the show) was comforting someone who had the chorea symptoms. The actor (who from what I can tell did not have HD. But if I find out later that the actor did have it, then I will change my opinion) was clearly try to mimic what chorea looked like, but I could tell that it was off and an incorrect portrayal (note though, that chorea does technically look different for everyone. But there are similarities). But there is no good way to act it out, because there is a fundamental lack of experience, or authenticity, that an actor will have when trying to. It just isn’t right, like they read a list of symptoms and had nothing else to go off of, if that makes sense. I laughed a bit at it, because I knew from experience that it just looked wrong and I can tell exactly why. But if someone who did not have family with HD, or they did not have experience dealing with the people who have this condition, and didn’t know the pain of watching someone go through it, it would seem tasteless.
I love how they treated the transformation of Elliot Page in Umbrella Academy because it mirrored their real life - they didnt just 'gave them a suit/dress'
i personally want trans actors to be trans characters but if someone really doesn’t want to do that instead of cis men playing trans women maybe just cast a cis women like init’s sunny
@@lisavandenhoven5672 that’s good! i wasn’t saying that it’s sunny was the only piece of media that does this it’s just the only one that came to mind. i really want to be an actor and i hope it gets easier for all trans people in my position!
Truue that’s how I feel as well, people go “oh well it’s just acting, someone doesn’t need to be trans to play a trans person” but it’s like, okay, so why cast someone that’s not even the same gender as the character? It just feels like they’re saying “yeah a trans person is just a man wearing a dress” instead of acknowledging our actual genders. But also, trans actors already struggle getting roles so casting cis people to play them feels insulting. (It’s unfortunate that the Sabrina show on netflix was so shit because it actually has a great example, to me, of them using a young trans actor and portraying a fairly good transition story without making it an overly huge deal, and it was one of the few times I’ve seen a show bother to include a transmasc character. If only the writing had been good in any other way 😅)
@@finpin2622 i completely relate about sabrina i am not trans masc (genderqueer but more fem presenting) but it’s nice to see like actual trans people playing trans characters same with the dumpster fire that is euphoria. i definitely don’t want to brush past like how important it is for trans people to be cast in any roles but specifically to play trans people. it’s just so much more disrespectful if they have a cis man play a trans woman especially because it’s normally to make fun of them.
Kit Kats might taste better to you in Canada/UK because Kit Kat is owned by Hershey, who's chocolate isn't actually considered "real chocolate" by global standards, and subsequently isn't sold with the original (not legally chocolate) recipe outside the states.
i feel like i have to share this because i have a very similar experience to you guys when you worked for patreon. i had a girl in high school who everyone spoke to me about because we were "so similar" and it turned out we were just both jewish and had L names and the same birthday. it's a very niche experience but i feel i can relate to you guys on that level.
TW: mention of se*ual abuse I cannot agree more with what Jarvis says at 41:55 - if you have a bad therapist, get the heck out of there. I was se*ually abused years ago and when I told my therapist what had happened (in a time when the event began to haunt me), she unironically said "you could try to see it from his side" and "other women would have enjoyed what he did". She apparently just tried to "open my mind to see the situation in a different light" because if I wanted to report him to the police "he would not be found guilty" because I "didn't say 'no'" (I was half-asleep when it happened). Totally not cool. It was not about me and my feelings anymore but about what the abuser thought, felt and wanted. Like, I know what he wanted, I don't need you to tell me that. I need you to listen to me and help me to deal with that had happened. Not give me legal advice I did not ask for.
I once went to a therapist who essentially told me I couldn't be trans/nonbinary because I hadn't known I was trans as a kid? Like... I didn't know what being nonbinary was until my senior year of high school? I didn't know anyone could be that until then? As a kid I barely knew what being trans meant (and I only knew basically a transmedicalist+"trapped in the wrong body" barebones version of it, because I was raised by progressive but cishet parents in the 90s). I didn't feel like "a boy trapped in a girl's body" (I had 0 body dysphoria before puberty) and didn't want to get any surgery I didn't immediately need to survive, so how would I have known I was trans at that point? Your story is way worse, though. I'm sorry it happened. Either way, the wrong therapist can fuck you up.
theres a kdrama named "extraordinary lawyer woo" about an autistic woman, and its really cute and as a person with autism i did enjoy how the show went about it :)
The first US show to have an autistic character (explicitly autistic, not coded autistic) played by an openly autistic actor as a lead role was Everything's Gonna Be Okay. It aired for two seasons starting in *2020.* Ultimately it had 3 series regulars who were autistic characters played by autistic actors (and an additional occasionally appearing character). I really recommend the show (it's a fun comedy that deserved more seasons than it got), but it's absurd that it took that long for US creators to put autistic actors in autistic roles. But this is a problem that disabled actors in general face. Sighted actors will be cast ahead of blind actors in the role of a blind character. And unlike something like a career, where you can reasonably expect an actor to present an experience they haven't actually had, in the case of many if not all disabilities you are looking at something that fundamentally change how a person experiences the world. Disabled actors will be able to bring their perspective to those roles in a way actors without the experience never will. As the disability rights movement says, "nothing about us without us."
31:58 I am an actor with autism!! It gets insanely frustrating to see allistic actors consistently cast in autistic roles and then have casting directors and showrunners publicly bemoan the lack of autistic actors (or complain about how "hard" autistic actors are to work with, which is a whole other topic). We exist! We're out there! I was recently in a production of Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time (a show/book i have...opinions about. but a paycheck is a paycheck and the director was also autistic) and a weird amount of the conversation around the show was the fact that an autistic actor was playing Christopher. I'm proud of my autism and I'm proud to be representing autistic characters on stage, but the fact that it's notable for an autistic character to be played by an autistic person in 2023 is...strange and frustrating. A lot of it comes down to the fact that people want to represent autism because it's a hot button issue and makes you seem progressive, but no one wants to actually take the time to accommodate autistic actors.
Ive seen black autistic people joke that casting allistic actors instead of autistic ones is "the blackface of autism" and i oculdnt agree more because autism is NEUROLOGICAL you literally cannot understand these sensory sensations if you dont have an SPD, autism, ect..
@Beans I'm black and autistic. It's completely fine to make that comparison (in my eyes, at least) lol. Both are inadvertantly, sometimes intentionally, mocking a mirginalized group by mimicking what they perserve us to be for the sake of enterainment. The goal with blackface is to make people laugh. The goal with autisticbody is drama. All of it is offensive.
About the Ozempic thing: my grandma is diabetic, and she had to like wait MONTHS to even have a meeting about getting a prescription. And it’s only because she’s still working that she had health insurance to cover the price, because she was telling me that she wouldn’t be able to afford it otherwise. But she ended up getting the prescription and I’m pretty sure it’s working great for her
the only tangible person I know to watch young sheldon is my dad. It’s so bizarre because I’ve only known him to watch the same old shows on repeat, having absolutely no desire to watch anything new. this only changed around march when he randomly started watching young sheldon. it’s on the tv almost all the time now. I’m still grappling with it. hearing anyone mention young sheldon feels personal now
I broke up with my long term therapist 2 weeks ago for reasons similar to why Jarvis is thinking about it. But can we talk about how stressful it is to find a therapist that you not only connect with, but also has availability and takes your insurance 🙃
I made the mistake of being in a good place mentally just before we went into lockdown in Australia. I’m not anti lockdown, I’m actually somewhat proud of how we handled the pandemic here, there were plenty of mistakes but at least we tried to protect vulnerable people for the first couple of years. I got a referral to see a psych again because mine expired and his first available appointment was over 8 months away 😬
My fav kdrama is extraordinary attorney woo and it’s actually a really well done, highly recommend. As an autistic person, the good doctor is quite hurtful in it’s depiction, at least for me😭 jordan is extremely correct in saying the dude’s performance is “fetishised”
I'm autistic and like many of my autistic peers in the comments, I wasn't diagnosed until adulthood. My mom loves this show and I honestly never even saw a clip of it before now, but seeing it now only makes me more certain that it's shows like this that have made it so common to view autism as only existing in boys, and only manifesting as 'childlike' behaviors/obvious social deficits. If this is what people without significant media literacy view us as, there is simply very little hope for anyone who isn't a little white boy to have their struggles seen. P.S. Jarvis and Jordan often use 'person/people with autism' to describe autistic individuals, which is totally cool and fine! But, you might also notice that most of the autistic people in the comments are phrasing it differently. If you're not super up to date with the community and the general sentiments around identity language, the reason why a lot of us label ourselves as 'an autistic person, autistic, or 'being autistic' rather than people with autism is because we generally view identity-first language as being more representative of our experiences nowadays. Not everyone feels this way, and it's even still the academic standard to use person-first language, but I just wanted to point that out as some information that people might not know. Thanks for reading, fellow Sad Boyz!
Idk if it will make a difference but personally I think the original Korean version of "the good doctor" does a much better depiction of someone with autism however, they still have the "genius" trope but it's a plot device......so in some way it can be excused as media being media (as far as I'm concerned, I know everyone isn't gonna feel the same). Of course there are problems that come from ignorance but it's better than it American counterpart Also, you might like "extraordinary attorney woo". It does a better job in that show. You can tell that the actress worked really hard to do the depiction of someone with autism justice....
@Flovonne Johnson I've really wanted to watch that, thank you for the suggestion! I completely understand where you're coming from, I just wish they did better with the American adaptation.
I watched the show bc I grew up loving House M.D. and was interested to see another medical show by David Shore. While I don’t think the writing is good and there are a lot of things to criticize about the show, it was watching and relating to Shaun’s struggles that pushed me to self reflect and ultimately accept as an adult woman that I am and have always been autistic. I was diagnosed at age 5 but multiple circumstances likely including the bias you speak of cast enough doubt on it to not securely be able to have that identity label or government-issued support growing up. Seeing these “childlike” traits in an adult like Shaun helped me to accept that my sensory/social difficulties weren’t something I was going to ‘grow out of’, no matter how many useful coping mechanisms I learned for them, and that yes adults can still have bad days and meltdowns when they’re pushed to their limits and it’s just another part of life. Shaun’s ending monologue in the season 3 episode “Disaster” was the first time my struggles in the context of being an adult felt seen. Maybe on a large scale this doesn’t happen, but I can only speak from my own experience, to offer a little hope if nothing else.
@@timburtonlover369 I'm really glad you had that experience. Congratulations on finding things out ❤️ I am very glad that this show could be something more for at least one person.
@Beans That's a great explanation, and I'm grateful you shared it! I feel very similarly, and I always advocate for people using whatever labels fit them-- only you can truly define yourself, and people need to respect that. Thank you!
Im a late diagnosed autistic person, and i gotta say shows like the good doctor (which i didnt watch but have been aware of for a long time) definitely prevented me from recognising that i am autistic and seeking out an assessment. In fact due to shows like the good doctor my perception of autism was so warped and i held so many slightly ablest ideas without even recognising it that when my therapist brought up that i might be autistic i freaked out. My line of thought was completely shrouded by influences like the good doctor where i believed i couldnt possibly be autistic because i wasnt like shaun or like sam from atypical. The journey of unlearning those misconceptions through research and diagnosis (while my research is still ongoing as autism isnt the monolith these shows portray, so theres always more to learn) have helped me better understand myself, and shows like this prevented it from happening sooner
I honestly really like the Korean Good Doctor (which I watched before the American rip-off was made). Yeah, some of the things they say about autism are kind of stupid, but so much so that you're not tempted to take them seriously. As someone who's on the autistic spectrum myself, I dislike the American Good Doctor more, partly because people seem to take it seriously as a supposedly good depiction of autism. Your remark about "kid-coded" was quite good.
@@ZhovizHalgo yeah I second this, like there are the usual pitfalls of representation where an autistic character is called a ‘genius’ but overall I still related a lot to the main character in comparison to nearly any other autistic rep I’ve seen
@@ZhovizHalgo Attorney Woo was okay, but it's also another one of those that make out autistic people to be these academic geniuses. Those people are usually outliers and not the majority. Most autistic people are just average intelligence, and it also depends on the severity of their autism.
I learned a while back that sometimes companies will have to change their branding in other countries because of already existing brands with the same name. This came up when a friend (who lives in Canada) and I (American) were discussing our favorite microwave meals (for when we don't have the energy to cook proper), and we were comparing the brands Crave and Devour, not realizing until after he sent me a picture of the box and we realized we were talking about the same thing, literally. Later, while working at my grocery store, I rang up someone's Crave dog food, and it made sense why the branding would have to be different in America.
As an autistic person I LOVE shitting on the Good Doctor but it's become a bit of a minefield where some people are making fun of things autistic people actually do and it's like bro that's not- that's not what we're here for. Not gonna lie you guys were doing that a bit as well, with the laughing at the C3PO clip. Also the show supports autism speaks which is an anti-autism hate group.
Personally I didn’t have an issue with it (I also have autism just for the record) to me it was more that they were making fun of how studios and directors think autistic people are robots. Like ik I can be kinda awkward with my body sometimes but I’m never doing C-3PO impressions and I’ve never seen another autistic person move in that way. To me they’re laughing at how poorly portrayed it is not the idea that autistic people can be awkward in their movements etc.
@@tarettime9392 yeah, i was wondering where they even got that stereotype? it's as if they were at the same party as someone explaining t-rex arms but at least two rooms away--like autistic people can and do move differently from nt but that clip is has almost nothing to do with things real autistic people actually do (vs the meltdown clip :/ ) (my 'they' is referring to the show creators & actor if that's unclear)
As much as it can be funny to make fun of the good doctor for how bad it is, it’s also just a really damaging show. I can only give my thoughts from the few clips I’ve seen (personally I think anyone can have option of representation, but the people who experience it are the only ones that can fully understand if it’s good or not, and as an autistic person I feel like I have the right to say how it is as someone who lives it.) the representation is just bad. Having an non autistic actor (and I assume no autistic writers) makes it so much worse as personally seeing someone act out issues I live with, especially meltdowns feels incredibly uncomfortable to me. We deserve good and correct representation, but we barely get any. Instead we get this which I know will not help people treat us better, probably the opposite
For years I’ve assumed this show was just a show about a guy playing an autistic doctor with a bit of a flat affect and savant syndrome, a bit ableist but ultimately just a drama, but in the past 2 days I’ve heard so much about what happens just in the first 5 episodes and its like ???? I’m now deeply concerned for the autistic people I know who said it was fine
My mom is a physician’s assistant and a former respiratory therapist and my dad is an infectious diseases doctor and they laugh hysterically every time the long side effects come on. They are so long and every one has depression, suicidal thoughts or actions, some type of bowel side effects.. just everything.
i need to say how much i appreciate and respect you both for being open about your emotions as men. not a lot of people are showing examples of healthy male friendships and what you’re doing is so so important
Not every therapist is for everybody. I had a therapist who believed in completing therapy. He helped me change my viewpoint so that I have less negative spiraling and have real coping techniques and frameworks for reflection that are not self destructive. I still am me. I still have bad days and stress and negative thoughts. But I have such an improved quality of life. I only say this to let folks know, this is one possibility depending on the patient and the therapist. If you are seeking progress and you aren't getting it, don't be afraid to change. That said, I personally felt little progress for 8 months and then it hit all at once. I think we all know it won't all get better right away.
21:56 the actor isn’t even autistic, that’s what really irritates me about the show, also the ‘autistic genius but still mentally a child’ trope. HIRE AUTISTIC ACTORS IF YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO TELL STORIES ABOUT AUTISM AND MAKE THEM REALISTIC, omfggg. I show a lottt of autistic traits and this show is just plain offensive and fucked up
I agree. In my opinion I don’t think autistic characters always have to be portrayed by autistic actors but if you’re going to do a show about the autistic experience and neither the writer, nor director, nor lead actor/actress are autistic. You’re not actually making a show about the autistic experience. Your making a show about the allistic understanding of autism.
@@tarettime9392 fr, personally I think the actor being autistic is vital for representation reasoning especially but I see your point, totally agree tbh, the allistic understanding of autism will never provide anything helpful or comforting to real autistic people, which I think is necessary when making a show about autistic people
@@googoogaga7986 well the reason why I say always is I think that having a autistic director/writer could still result in an accurate portrayal of the autistic experience even if the lead actor isn’t. If you have someone who really understands it guiding a talented nt actor you could still do it right imo. And if you have an autistic lead actor but nt director and writer you can have a situation wheee they’re guiding an autistic actor to a less genuine portrayal of their own experience and they might have pressure on them to not speak up about it. So I don’t think it’s always necessary but I do think you need to have someone who understands the experience in a high level of the production.
Watching after having a manic episode that made my family P ANIC... thanks for giving me a moment to breathe and focus💜 I appreciate the space you create
The actor’s movements are wild for sure, but sometimes when trying to mask (aka seem non-autistic) we overcorrect and then our body language/movements come across so strange
I agree, I mean I know that a lot of the time by body language can come across as stiff and ‘weird’ but even if they go that kind of correct, other stuff isn’t and I don’t fully believe that did that scene to not be like oh looks he’s being weird
@@greyyyyyyyyyy most definitely not saying the show is good. Just commenting that I think his body movements look somewhat like mine might when I’m trying to “act natural” or “be normal”
@@emmettvictor yeah, i think it's important to hire autistic writers and actors but a lot of this discourse makes me feel uncomfortable when it's allistic (or even some autistic people) laughing at it and being like now THAT would be CRAZY. no way ANYONE acts like that, ewwwww. when.... i'm not saying the good doctor performance is well done or realistic, but some of the reasons that are easiest to name for why it feels ¨unrealistic¨ (like ¨wow he's so mad! he's repeating words!¨) feel kinda dehumanizing. like he is doing a caricature but if u say he's doing a caricature bc he's doing weird faces or whatever you're also implying that real autistic people like that are grotesque. as an autist whose experience w/ autism is closer i suspect to the type most autistic people talking about this have, w a brother whose autism i think is unfortunately more accurately represented in ableist contexts than in mainstream progressive ones,... this WHOLE thing just feels gross
@@baintreachas theyre laughing at how absurd it is for a non autistic person to be portraying autism in that way is the point, it just looks icky and feels icky because of that fact. Its like people that use AAVE when speaking about black people
@Emily Robinson think about it. When people do blackface, they are being a caricature of a black person. They amp up certain aspects of stereotypes to at the expense of the people they are PRETENDING to be in order to make their demographic look terrible. The good doctor is an example of this but instead it's autism. You wouldnt cast a white actor to play a black person by changing their skin color. Doing the same to autism is promoting caricatures. You can participate in caricaturizing without knowing you are. Its INHERENTLY A CARICATURE because its an ALLISTIC "playing" autism. The scene where the surgeon turns on a hand drier and start slapping it over and over is ridiculous. HE'S A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL THAT WORKS AROUND LOUD EQUIPMENT AND PATIENTS AND UR TELLING ME HES GONNA MELTDOWN AT A HAND DRIER? 😭😭 Or the scene where he backs up from the Operation table starting to say "No, no nono!! No!! Cant do this cant do this!" And rips off his SURGICAL MASK RIGHT ABOVE THE PATIENTS OPEN CHEST.
Just found this podcast/channel and i really adore the rang of topics you two (plus occasional guest) cover with both humour and thoughtfulness. the conversations feel very sincere and are really lovely to listen to
came for the sad boyz stayed for the clowning on the good doctor my thoughts on the good doctor as an autistic person: it's like they did their "research" on autistic ppl via tv tropes. they took everything that pisses me off about autistic representation in media and stuck it in that show. i watched maybe a quarter of the first episode and i was like: yeah, fuck no. here's a list of everything wrong from what i've heard: - infantilization of autistic ppl - treating autism as a superpower (and very literally giving him superpowers. like omfg) - literally no one treats him like a normal person. it's like "how are you on this fine day autistic friend who has a terrible case of the autism. how's the autism today? is it fair like the weather? tell me about your, what do you call it? special interest? do you like trains and dinosaurs like my autistic nephew?" - over-exaggeration of autistic traits (like irregular inflection/tone i can let slide, but the robotic movements? really? just make him a fucking robot at this point) - treating ableism as a plot device rather than like a genuine problem that needs to be addressed (it would be fine if it was one character that gets dunked on later imo. but it's every other person like jordan said) - every autistic trait he has is a stereotype - they bring his autism into the conversation when it is absolutely unnecessary - they hired an allistic (non-autistic) actor if you'd like to see one of the better representations of an autistic person that i've seen on tv, i'd recommend extraordinary attorney woo. don't get me wrong, it's not a perfect show, but they actually put thought and care into the portrayal of woo youngwoo. it can be a little exaggerated at points and sometimes it feels like they're making her out to be a funny quirky caricature, but most of the time, they rectify this with the way they bring up the discussion of ableism and how autism affects her positively AND negatively. also there's a cute little romantic side plot where the love interest treats her normally(!!!!) and actually communicates with her properly outside of his momentary fits of worry/panic. anyway, if you're interested, it's on netflix :-)
The political ad satire can’t be peeked after Clone High. “Last year Abe said he was 15 years old, now he says he’s 16. Which is Abe better keep your story straight”
38:17 I ended up in the ER after having a bad reaction to my narcolepsy medication. My heart rate was 150 and my blood pressure was 150/90 sitting and it wouldn’t go down. For measure my blood pressure is usually around 100/60. My heart rate about 100. I went to urgent care first and they basically rushed me out to go straight to the ER. They brought me to the back immediately after my EKG, they did an X-ray, a cat scan and gave me liquids all within the first 15 or so minutes which is abnormal for an ER in the US unless it’s serious. As they start trying to take my blood I just finally asked one of the techs if I was going to be okay. All they replied with was “just try to stay calm”. That did not calm me. In the end the meds had plummeted my potassium which is basically heart attack city if it goes too far down. I still don’t know how serious my case was, but after some potassium liquid and coming off the meds I ended up fine. Scary as fuck, and the bed side manner was ominous to say the least.
as an autistic person, the good doctor is so insulting and such a stereotype. i watched it before realizing i was autistic and and i couldn’t relate to anything, i didn’t see myself even in one bit. it really is a crime. if a autistic person for real acted like this, they would get detained and hurt
It's insane because I genuinely loved him as an actor until this. August Rush was one of my favorite movies for a long time. He was great in Bates Motel too.
as an autistic person, i watched the first few bits of this show and i did like it but it was always uncomfortable. i was so excited for a show about an autistic doctor that i wasn't seeing the bad moments until after i hadn't watched it for a while, but now seeing it is so uncomfortable. like, i relate to the good doctors mannerisms and figures of speech, but every character around him treats him like a child. the subject matter deals with a very smart, very capable doctor who saves a lot of lives... and everyone around him treats him like he's a child
Literally got diagnosed a few months ago I'm almost 30 and so much makes since. My dads autistic so I thought I had traits because he raised me and he loves this show he got into it because the korean one but like for him he likes it because he lives in a world where his only represention was basically the film rainman and that was when he was much older his special interist is tv and he always wanted to be a director (his other special intrest is math and physics and he has 3 PhD's so hes happy with his choice) . So to him this is huge representation considering his history and discriminatuon in the place. But to me shows like that is what stopped me from seeking out a diagonsis and gaslighting myself into thinking I just picked up traits even though I kind of knew for over a decade. I also had to have a hysterectomy last year and shows like this is why its gonna be hell for me to adopt.
Yeah I think watching this show with my mom from the start of it really affected my inner perception of things. I have only recently started suspecting I may be autistic or at least have some traits, and shows/representation like this fueled my thinking of "oh I guess I'm not because I don't do this or that". The show fuels generalizations of autistic people, but I can see why it would be a comfort for your dad considering he did not have good representation growing up (not that The Good Doctor is good representation, but you take what you can get sometimes).
i definitely agree with therapists being a bit grounding in that they'll "tell it like it is" if you ask them to. i went thru a really difficult situation where i was having a breakdown w psychotic/paranoid features, and it was definitely helpful to have a third party to give their observations on what was actually going on with my relationships. obviously they can never be completely unbiased but they're not directly involved in the way a friend or relative would be, and they're trained to be able to recognize stuff like anxious paranoia or depressive spiraling. it feels more reassuring when a therapist tells me "they probably dont actually hate you, you're just anxious" than if my mom were to say that lol
23:10 the good lawyer is an episode of the good doctor. I almost died laughing seeing Freddie’s face pop up when I googled! But US is making a remake of Extraordinary Attorney Woo and they’re gonna butchered it like Good Doctor too. American truly scared of subtitles
no shade to other liscenced mental health professinals, but the psychotherapy provided by clinical psychologists is waaaaay more effective for people with diagnosable conditions like mood disorders or personality disorders. regular talk therapy and cognitive-behavioral therapy are great for people who just need someone to check in with now and again to work through regular interpersonal issues or major life events - but, if a person has clinical depression and debilitating anxiety or wants to learn how to grow as a person while developing healthy coping mechanisms to deal with symptoms related to their diagnosis, regular talk therapy and CBT just aren't gonna cut it. to anyone reading this, there's nothing wrong with switching therapists until you find a mental health professional that has the right tools that enable you to help yourself live your best life!
canadian food standards are better for a lot of things - when i was living in the states, eating dominos, most chocolate bars, or really any cheap foods was a let down. The selection was also worse, I didn't realize how many candies we had that america doesn't. My partner says the fast food burgers are noticeably worse too, i know thats because of the differing meat standards. i was so happy when i found out the UK section in the grocery store had aero bars.
Still wondering when my autistic super powers will kick in. So far all I've gotten is an extreme sensitivity to textures of wet things and the inability to shut up about the Restoration Era. Not sure those can be considered "superpowers."
i actually stopped going to therapy all together because i could never find a good one. i went for 5 years and switched 6 times, but i felt like every time i stopped seeing a therapist i had to deal with more trauma than when i started going. one of my friends also stopped going to therapy, and i’m noticing a few of my friends starting to get help but then say that it’s not working. idk if i happen to be surrounded by people who are also trapped in bad therapists cycle, because i know that there are some really good therapists out there that can help. for me, it just hasn’t worked, and i maybe i’ll try therapy again in the future, but right now i’ve found that just journaling and talking to friends has been way better for my mental health.
regarding the talk about feeling stagnant in therapy---i can totally relate!! for a long time i only saw therapists who were very validating and gave me a lot of space to express my thoughts, but i always left the session feeling good because it was like i had just vented to a friend. but i never got better. a few years ago i started seeing a new therapist who, after the first or second session, stated that he sought a very active approach to therapy and that he required that we always be working on or challenging something. and that made me really uncomfortable at first, because i wasn't used to that approach. for the first few months i consistently left therapy feeling distressed and uncomfortable, which at first i thought was a sign that this just wasn't working. but then i began to realize a real change in myself, and realized that because of the uncomfortable feelings and thoughts i was encouraged to face, i was actually untangling a lot of wires and i don't think i would have made the progress that i had if my therapist had not been so adamant on constant growth. therapy should be challenging!! you deserve to challenge yourself and grow as a person because of it.
A recent example of good autistic representation, there's a K drama called extraordinary attorney woo, Woo is an autistic lawyer. Though the actress who plays her isn't autistic, as a fellow afab person on the spectrum, I really found her portrayal empowering. She faces discrimination in her workplace, she makes mistakes and stands to correct them. Usually with autistic rep I've seen is the character is either a caricature to be laughed at or an ingenious, cold, stubborn, robot. Woo's character is sympathetic not just because she's on the spectrum, but also because she wants to be a good lawyer and make connections with people. Iconic girl boss fr.
Reminds me of The Big Bang Theory. I was literally talking with a coworker who, upon me saying I had autism, said "oh, like The Big Bang Theory!" Couldn't even name the character. I hate that these are the characters we're stuck with.
So glad Anastasia fact checked that hungry jacks is called that here in Aus because I was about to SPRINT to the comments and be like um actually in Australia it’s hungry jacks .
when i first saw the clip of him screaming from the top of the heavens that he is indeed a sturgeon i thought it was a tragic breakdown where he was finally falling apart and losing it, probably after a buildup over at least like half a season or something needless to say im dissapointed
dude jarvis ur haircut is tripping me out I keep thinking ur me 😂
Why are you like this 🤣🤣
Hi kurtis
Jarvis’ mustache is less creepy! 😘 Loved the watertok video…so weird.
@@nonprofitgirl that was a little rude- Kurtis' stache rocks 🕺
so youre telling me the guy in the video ISNT you!?
Another important thing to note about The Good Doctor is that they work with and promote Autism Speaks, which is a really really harmful organization!!
Omg. F*ck everyone involved.
Oh no, autism speaks is harmful?? I’m autistic and I had no idea. Could you please explain why if that’s not an issue? I wanna make sure I’m supporting the right organizations.
@@Misskisslily They promote "curing" autism instead of providing proper resources. It is painful but you may want to look up the "I am autism" commercial from (I think) 2008 and a clip where in one of their promotions, a mother says in front of her autistic daughter that she thought about committing a m*rder s*icude because of how challenging it is to be a parent of an autistic kid. They, overall, are infantilizing and try to make autistic kids "normal" by touching them when they don't want to be touched, making them play in ways they don't want to play, etc.
yeah of course! I would suggest reading some articles about their problematic history bc I’m sure I’m not gonna be able to list everything off the top of my head but they frame autism as a disease that people should be afraid of and that needs to be cured, they advocate for eugenics and spend most of their funds on research that attempts to find ways to detect autism in the womb so that any potentially autistic babies can be aborted , they have pushed theories about vaccines causing autism, promoted types of therapy widely considered to be abusive, and if I recall correctly they have never had any autistic people working within their organization or giving them input.
Not shocked. in fact i was about to comment i wouldnt be surprised if they consulted on this show.
Another weird thing about The Good Doctor is also that its not unheard of for a doctor to be autistic 😭
Yeah 👍
feel like with how often autistic ppls special interests can center around scientific or “nerdy” themes it’d be honestly kinda common for doctors to be autistic
not sure though, most may be undiagnosed or the fact that autistics aren’t usually given the same chances nt folk are..
Am doctor, can confirm
Honestly kinda the other way around. I'm also a doctor, and have several doctor friends who are autistic. It's quite overrepresented among doctors to be on the spectrum.
Right? I know so many autistic doctors!
i’m autistic and went to hook up with a girl over at her place and she said “oh you’re autistic? you’ll love this” and put on this show and we watched two episodes and then i made up an emergency to leave
NOOOO 💀
god that’s like saying “oh you’re gay? You’ll love this” **whips out rainbow costume**
@@KingOfGaymes but that's valid tho..they might indeed like that rainbow costume lol
Rec'en you dodged a bullet there
@@KingOfGaymes at least the rainbow costume could, potentially, slay.
@@elitejustin7122 i think a better comparison would be like
“oh you’re gay? let’s watch ellen!”
or love, simon perhaps
Biggest problem with the show can be condensed pretty well by what Jarvis said about it early on - this character of Shaun is written like an autistic *child* not an autistic adult who has lived with autism for 30 years and developed a life and skills and adapted to functioning. The traits he displays are the classic markers of autistic children, which is why some autistic people still relate to them, but there is no way someone who hadn't grown and adapted to living in the world would become a doctor with a wife and children. The show is very odd not because it made up autistic traits but because they portray the adult man as if he is mentally a child, which would not ever be the case with someone who managed to become a professional surgeon.
WOW. This comment is outrageous. Can barely believe what im reading. You dont think theres a single autistic adult in the world who has these mannerisms and traits, or expresses themselves this way? The way this comment degrades children and "child-like" behavior also is disgusting, and riddled with ignorance as to how autistic people have been talked about this way, infantilized and labeled "child-like" "babies" for decades ... wow. "Because it made up autistic traits but because they portray the adult man as if he is mentally a child" Its BAFFLING that you dont see what is wrong with what you've just said. "but there is no way someone who hadn't grown and adapted to living in the world would become a doctor with a wife and children" ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF. Holy fucking shit. This entire comment is unbelievably degrading, you are a horribly ignorant person
But what about someone who managed to become a professional sturgeon?
From what I've seen of the show, it explains a lot of why he is like that. His father was extremely emotionally and mentally abusive to him. I don't think he grew much from that.
Coming from an abusive household, I know it can stunt you in many ways.
No kidding! I legit thought when I saw the previews of it ages ago that the main character was, like, 16 and the main conflict was that the hospital didn't want to employ a *child* who just so happened to be autistic...like the autism made him a child genius. Which is problematic enough but imagine my surprise when this man is supposed to be a full adult.
YIKES.
guy really was told to act like a caricaturical, completely lost and clueless autistic kid, except 30 seconds per episode when he has s(t)urgeon superpower surges and is magically very competent, way more than anyone else
The bit on autism goes for basically any disability. I remember watching breaking bad and being so happy that they actually cast an actor with cerebral palsy to play Walt Jr. Though RJ Mitte said he had to exaggerate some of his mannerism bc the character’s cp was a bit more severe than his.
There are so many talented actors out there with disabilities that it’s stupid not to cast them for these roles.
Yes! I love Breaking Bad!
Yep. I’m still pissed about the casting of Artie in Glee. There are literally SO MANY actors who actually use wheelchairs and other mobility aids. There was literally no excuse for them to cast an able bodied actor for that role.
As an autistic person I completely agree with Jordan's criticism and I'm so happy to hear you talk about that! I wish they started hiring autistic actors for autistic characters instead of making actors literally mock our body language. And I'm so mad that they treat an autistic character as a baby. You can respect people without patronising them.
Edit:
Tw: violence, ableism
also, the thing he is mocking when he is screaming is an autistic meltdown. A very painful and mentally draining experience. Having it in public can be dangerous and may lead to awful reaction from people around you (like violence from adults if you are a child or a literal arrest). It feels cruel and wrong to make an allistic person act out a weird copy of it and portay it like a temper tantrum.
Hell, I have people in real life who treat me like a baby. I’m 41.
@@RabidChild82 yeah, we are either "a baby genius in an adult's body" or "not really autistic" In their eyes
The meltdown clip really angered me as I felt so uncomfortable that an allistic person was acting it out, cause it felt mocking instead of understanding
I might be a bit of an outlier on this but I actually really enjoy the good doctor. Mostly the doctor aspect.
I absolutely agree with the fact that it's incredibly gross that they didn't cast an autistic person to play someone autistic. It's also a very stereotyped and shallow view of autism (white guy is super smart but has tantrums and can't communicate). But I personally can see past that when I choose to not see it as a real portrayal of autism.
The issue for me is when other non autistic people do think this is what autism is.
Sidenote: i recommend Heartbreak High and Young Royals for autistic characters played by actual autistic people!
So it shouldn’t be on tv at all, based on the fact the autistic community isn’t asking for it at all, I’d say maybe the autistic experience shouldn’t be dramatized, or re-enacted for entertainment at all seeing it just can’t be done right.
These two talking about their birthday always gives codependent twins vibes
Codependent after being separated and raised in different countries Lindsey Lohan style
@@gilly_axolotl Parent Trap was based off Jordan and Jarvis actually
I really hope they see this thread.
Do y’all think they got into some wacky hijinks and and formative mischief growing up alike Lindsey Lohan in the iconic 1998 family/comedy remake of the 1961 classic?
It honestly explains their bond even more, like no wonder theyre two peas in a pod(cast)
Both in undergrad (a bio or socio-anthropology class) and grad school (sped education masters), we had to watch an episode of The Good Doctor to list all the issues in the episode the prof chose and explain why what happened was either incorrect or implausible and how it harmed actual science and advancement in social understanding and acceptance of autistic people and issues with understandings of anatomy and physiology in pop culture.
Your school experience sounds like the one I wanted lol
Nope, I took a film theory class that based every lesson on a different Biblical commandment that somehow featured the Star Trek TNG ‘Inner Light’ episodes, Hitchcock’s ‘The Birds’, but somehow NOT ‘The Ten Commandments’!!!!
Shockingly NOT worth 30k a semester. 🤬🤬🤬
@@TheNormExperience Sounds like BYU lol. But yeah I was lucky that most of my teachers were up to date on pop culture and research in their fields.
Why does the show harm the understanding of autistic people?
i understand it's just an abbreviation for Special Education but every time i read/hear "sped" my blood pressure spikes 😭
@@asheronthehoise4813 Totally valid! I am happy that in a lot of higher ed circles, they are finding new language for teachers that teach students with disabilities, but unfortunately it hasn't translated to a change in what the majors or job titles are for the most part 🙁
i didnt get diagnosed with autism until i was in my 20s. one thing i've learned about our community is that we can be INCREDIBLY good actors, seeing as we have to mask our autistic traits if we don't want to be ostracized for them. thanks for talking about how goofy this show is
Yeah there's actual autistic Oscar winners
exactly!! I can't get diagnosed because there aren't even any private psychologists in my province who specialize in adult adhd but all my therapists have suggested I have autism. I never agreed because I always did well in social situations, was well liked, managed my emotions, and understood others. Then I realized I'm actually working through extremely complex systems in order to replicate being neurotypical. For example, I make decisions on what to say in a conversation by formatting each option in a choose-your-own-adventure telltale type game in order to not offend others. I love choose-your-own-adventure-games because it allows me to practice and model social interactions in a safe space that I can easily reset! Everyone who knows me closely will see my acting exterior break and my apathy will leak through. We truly have mastered social survival!
anthony hopkins is autistic and one of the greatest actors of our time
@@herb_rolls It sounds as though you're masking. I was recently diagnosed with autism at age 29. I slipped through the cracks for many years, despite being evaluated for other mental disorders, because I developed methods of assimulating over the years.
If you want to see if that's what you're doing, you can take a free CAT-Q test online. It was a part of my testing process. My score factored heavily into my diagnosis.
@@CreatEr1n I agree especially as they make social interactions into a choose your own adventure novels which is a good indication they found a coping mechanism that works for them in social situations, plus autistic people can hold themselves differently depending on who they are around. mimicking things to make social interactions easier is a autistic trait from what I recall. My boyfriend is super formal with strangers to the point some people find it charming he's so stiff yet polite with people but if you're close to him he's a big silly goof who's just doing his best to make people around him feel good by making them laugh.
The autistic people have super powers trope is so annoying to me as an autistic person. The new predator movie where they directly say autism is the latest step of human evolution. Idk why it upsets me so much.
I just watched the predator movie a few days ago and it was ridiculous how they treated the kids autism (and having that guy with Tourette’s used only for jokes was weird)
I have no clue why that’s a troupe
It's eugenics. The functioning labels are in the same vein of categorizing Autistic people as better or worse based on their skills. They want to push a model minority myth to force Autistic people to work harder.
i just don't like the way that media in general is like 'whats an incredibly simple way we can explain this EXTREMELY nuanced condition that affects the entirety of the human brain and consciousness differently in every single case to.... a bunch of allistic people who really don't want to think about it?'
its always either 'think of them as brain damage victims' or ' think of them as SUPERHEROES,' like no, if you want superheroes in your movie, just DO THAT. stop dragging actual disabled people who already suffer from sh!t representation into it.
Like, it’s a disability. Acting like it’s some new more advanced part of human evolution is so frustrating because it diminishes some of the terrible things autistic people have to deal with, it’s just a way for allistics to try and make themselves feel better about autistic people, which is weird because they’re just people. You don’t need to pity or treat them differently
it's like... weirdly "eugenicist" in a way i can't pin down. Also the erasure of high-supports-needs autistics or any other autistic people that aren't palatable to allistic standards
the whole “there must be actors with autism” there are! ….now…
the FIRST autistic actor to EVER play an autistic main character was kayla cromer playing matilda in “everything’s gonna be okay” in ONLY 2020, just 3 years ago! the FIRST! and she did amazing and the show is amazing and shows so many versions of what autism looks like (which as an autistic person means so much to me) she’s also playing an autistic character in the new monster high cartoon!
chloe hayden is another autistic actress playing an autistic character (quinni in heart break high) who’s a very realistic portrayal of an autistic person, there’s even a scene where she was a meltdown that was so realistic it triggered me into having one which kinda sucks but also love to see the realism lol
ALSO THERES A K-DRAMA ABOUT AN AUTISTIC LAWYER TOO !! extraordinary attorney woo!!
and actually anthony hopkins, a very famous and acclaimed actor (best known for silence of the lambs) revealed he was autistic a few years ago! so there’s been at least one autistic actor for decades lol
@@pickledidiot4569 Dan Aykroyd too!
@@pbkathleen "Autistic lawyer" yeah bro I've seen Daredevil
vincent d'onofrio
So fascinating to hear about the good doctor. I’m 28, autistic and live with my mom (largely bc I’m disabled but also bc inflation/the housing crisis). My mom LOVES this show. I have just chosen not to engage bc I feel like it would melt my brain to watch or try to explain why it’s messed up. I also want to thank y’all for talking about autism and disability bc I know that (unfortunately) it can be a somewhat contentious subject
Don't beat yourself up for living with your parents, the rent prices nowadays are ridiculously high. You gotta make at least 2 minimum wages to afford a decent place.
@@NGU7754 totally, I have a classmate who's extremely smart and has done a lot of work who moved with her parents during our master's degree program...
She has a BF, and she works. The reason is because the rent is ridiculous, she has every right to save herself a lot of stress by moving back in with her parents.
That's me (physically disabled and autistic) and my Dad (loves the show), hope it gets easier living there or you move out if that's becomes an option that you want :)
How is it messed up?
@@LaikasFriendwhy do you speak as if your dad liking the show is a bad thing?
jarvis explaining the "I AM A STURGEON" joke made me audibly snort, i did not expect that
He is indeed a sturgeon
I am Autistic and I saw a few minutes of The Good Doctor and couldn't stop crying because it was so insulting and spreads so much dangerous misinformation about Autistics. It hurts so bad knowing that Freddie even works with Autism Speaks. I cannot stop shaking thinking about it.
😂😂😂 5:53 times 5:53 times 5:53
🎉
😅😢😅😮😅w😊
ik damn well these bots are not helping.. I hope The Good Doctor actually is taken off the internet bc its a joke of a show
Same here. I didn’t watch any of it but my mom watched the pilot and couldn’t get any further. She said it made her physically feel bad and that she was somehow slighting me by watching it, lol. It is absolutely abhorrent and I’m very glad people are taking the piss now
I was recently diagnosed with Autism at age 38. I remember being a child and reading about autism (I think I was reading an encyclopaedia which maybe should have been a big flashing sign). I was like oh that’s me! But then I saw it represented in media as being usually boys that had no friends, were obsessed with trains and almost non verbal (not that there is anything wrong with that). So I put it to the back of my mind for over 30 years I guess. It’s sad that representation these days is still often so bad.
im not officially diagnosed because id have to pay out of pocket for it and im broke asf. but im like 99% sure im autistic, and it was only after looking thru yt vids of autistics sharing their experiences, not having their stories be told by a parent or some third party, but straight from their own mouth, was and still is so fucking helpful :)
@@unseenmolee I’m sorry, I had to pay a CHUNK! It shouldn’t be so difficult to get diagnosed. If you haven’t already you should look up the Autism Spectrum Quotient (AQ). It’s one of the tests/questionnaires that are used to diagnose autism. I took it before I went for an assessment because I wanted to know if I was on the right track with my self diagnosis. You’ll also find most support groups and communities for people with autism accept self diagnosis, as the barriers to getting diagnosed are substantial.
@@unseenmolee I’m not sure of your age or gender, but another thing to look into is autistic masking. It’s something that many women/AFAB people with autism learn to do to “fit in” better. I believe it’s also significant for any people with autism who weren’t diagnosed as children. A lot of things clicked into place for me once I learned about that.
I've been wondering recently about getting assessed, but I wouldn't know where to start. My mom said when I was a kid that she thought I had some traits, but she was kind of "joking" and never pursued it. Now I'm a 39yo AFAB and really about done with people giving me shit about not emoting, not making eye contact, not engaging in conversation, not "mourning correctly," etc.
@@wideride8320 have a bit of a look online about how to get assessed where you are located, or maybe talk to your regular doctor if you have one. I’m in Australia so I only know about how to get accessed here.
when you learn that the main actor for the good doctor is a huge supporter of autism speaks the clips make more sense - just mindless weird takes on autism that don't apply
That's all you need to hear he's the og sia
him and sia must be besties
@@shavon Autism Speaks is an organization founded around the idea that autism is something that needs to be cured and their goal in research/charity is to work on finding cures. There are 0 people on their board or in any meaningful position in the company. It's just a bunch of people who either know an autistic person or think it's "really really sad." Most of their resources are not for helping autistic people, but for helping others "deal with" their autistic relatives, or looking into what causes autism so they can try and stop it from happening. Hopefully you can understand why that mission is not something autistic people want anything to do with.
@@shavon Don't know how many people are gonna respond to this but: Autism Speaks is a "charity" that puts profits towards "curing autism." If that itself isn't enough to raise an eyebrow, they also put forth many other harmful ideologies regarding (and including the promotion of violently restraining) autistic people. Overall, a charity caked in systemic ableism, with little to no benefit to autistic people whatsoever.
@@shavonAustim Speaks has put out ads in the past that haven’t aged well. People are of the opinion that Autism Speaks believes autism needs to be cured, and that is apparently a really bad thing. I can’t say that I personally agree as someone with a severely autistic niece who is a non-verbal young adult who cannot and will not ever be able to take care of herself. I don’t understand why it’s “bad” that organizations are trying to find a cure for that. The notion that she “just has a different neurotype” (which is apparently the “acceptable” definition of autism) feels incredibly dismissive of her reality- that she lives with a disorder that has robbed of her of agency. I don’t think people care about autistic people like her… they only care about being able to have a new quirky label for their neurosis.
(speaking as an autistic) the thing with the good doctor is that it's almost unfair to call his performance inaccurate. *almost.*
by which i mean there are definitely some autistic people who have "odd" affectations and postures, have a flat affect, seem "childish" etc. and there's nothing inherently wrong with having an autistic character with these traits.
but because he himself is not autistic (and to my knowledge none of the writers or directors are), a lot of nuance is lost, and it comes across as hollow and mocking. like im pretty sure they just glanced at one symptoms list and ran with it without reading into what those symptoms really are, or how they affect someone's day to day life. and if they ever did look deeper into it, they definitely didn't look into an autistic person's perspective
I think he is 30, It's kinda weird that he is THAT childish, a doctor, with a family, and still display symptoms of a child, like, for example, he doesn't understand BASIC informations, like in that one episode where he simply can't understand what a transgender person is, and keep making questions a child would make, REALLY DUMB questions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm 20 and my hyperfixation is Alice in Wonderland, my room has more than 100 books, a lot of toys and posters from the books and movies. I am considered childish nonetheless, but I don't show the symptoms like when I was a 9 years old, when I'm out in public I'm masking and also I adptaded a lot to not seem to weird in my work place, I changed.
FOR ME, it seems like the main protagonist in The Good Doctor series came straight out of an "autism symptoms list" on Google.
Why did they feel the need to make this show??
The context and narrative framing of the behavior (and the framing of the people reacting to it) also makes all the difference to me.
there’s a kdrama called attorney woo which portrays autism pretty well from what i’ve seen so far. her hyperfixation is whales and her love interest listens to her talking about them
considering its korean too . autism is not exactly seen in a kind light there, from what ive seen.
@@sora1498 no it does have issues, but considering that it’s korean i think they did an okay job
@@sora1498 the awareness is getting better in korea.
My hyperfixations are more traditional.
Movies, TV, books ... Genres like Sci Fi, fiction. I used to draw as a child but then my parents kinda killed that...
I enjoy classical music in a manner most people my age would enjoy contemporary music...
I'm weird, I know that, and it's okay 😂👍
I just wish people would stop depicting us as some geniuses with no problems...
I have never been that lucky, and never will be.
Edit: Oh and I forgot the video games. 😂👌
loveeeee this show
growing up as an autistic person who didn't know they were autistic, i never saw people talk about autistic people with kindness. seeing more and more people actually learn and care about autism makes me feel so happy. we deserve better
@Beans it happens so much more often than most people think. I've had quite a stories like that, and a few people called me ableist by making autistic characters? one person even said that i was "cringe" and "only wanted attention," because my character was autistic. It's insane
I appreciate the support you give to autistic people with the general way you talk about acceptance of others, the way you talk about autism and autistic people, and overall awareness you bring while not talking over us. Autistic people and ADHDers are in similar situations and communities, so seeing popular ADHD online figures stick up for and support the autistic community is wonderful. I have not seen the Good Doctor but have been told the horrible stereotyping and incorrectly explaining and framing autism. I would probably stay away from all media focuses autistic character(s) unless there were autistic writers on the project.
I wanna recommend chloe hayden's portrayal of quinni in heartbreak high! Autistic actor playing an autistic character. (:
And autistic actors
I also do the same with avoiding stuff
Kind of sucks that we have to be wary when representation is in a show in case it’s bad
@@princessmanitari4993 omg she’s my favorite representation of autism, first time I ever saw myself in media
a very common recc ppl give is abed from community and i'm here to give it again, the creator of the show didnt set out to make him autistic he just based him off of himself and then he actually got diagnosed w autism later on, so canon autistic written by an autistic person! he actually helped me figure out i was autistic bc he acts way more like me than the stereotypical no emotions, analytical type you get with shows like the good doctor
Saw a comment here that said they apparently work with autism speaks so ...
my shitty therapist story:
the first therapist i ever went to was when i was 15
i said i was feeling a lot of depression and depersonalization
he said "have you actually done any research on depersonalization? because that only happens to people with trauma, and you don't have that."
this was at the beginning. of. the first. session. he didn't ask me if i had trauma. he told me I didn't before asking anything about my life to make me feel dumb for suggesting i might have a problem.
I had a similar experience where one told me that depersonalization only happens in one rare circumstance.
Like no it doesn't, fuck.
the consistent bisexual sitting is great representation
💀
As a bisexual I feel represented
@@hi.4174 As a represented I feel bisexual
@@violetbackedstarling as a feel I bisexual represented
As I bisexual a represented feel
the thing about hiring an actor who isn’t autistic in a show literally about autism, is that they always make a plot point on how hard it is for autistic people to be hired and find jobs.
literally hire an autistic actor then like 😭
Btw, I am not Autistic when I say this. But as I've seen several times in the comments and from friends with autism. If they find ability in acting, they're VERY good at acting. It boosts it. Like how general interests are taken farther in aspects with Autism (I hope what I said came across right there, I don't want it taken harmfully or incorrectly). It's not like there isn't people interested in acting with Autism either, they definitely could've found someone with autism with great acting skills.
LMAOOO😭 this is geniuenly awful tho like honestly how could u be so awful
Irony is so ironic that there's an irony taste in my mouth.
These guys are really funny, they should make their own RUclips channels
Imagine if they did a podcast and talked about their feelings. That would be dope
@@5Amigos32 And other things also!
This joke has entered the stage where actual funny people never use it and only people that can't be funny without copying someone else's jokes use it.
@@5Amigos32 oh my god. You’re a genius
@@510tuber its almost like ur so unfunny you cant understand that some people dont have the same humour as you.
I love the Kurtis story because I just saw his reaction to Danny arriving in his WaterTok video and their impression is spot on 😂
Every time I hear someone referencing "black. white." I remember that you guys haven't finished your reaction series, and now that you both mentioned it I hope that "one day" it'll come, just like you said. 😌
Dude that's super hype to have the same birthday as your good friend.
Makes it easy easier to remember or way funnier when you forget it's your own birthday
as an autistic person i'm really glad that you're talking about this. Really tired of seeing autism presented in media like this or being infantilized. It's pretty sad to see actors mocking us. It's shows like this that makes it harder to explain autism to people since they just go to the stereotype of it being a boy who has special abilities etc
Honestly, after the blatant ableism that was Autism Acceptance month (last month--some of my Autistic moots disappeared from Twitter because it was so bad), it was really great to see discourse where Autistic people can share their stories without all the weird questions allistics throw our way. I have never seen The Good Doctor, because I could tell based on the promos when it first came out that it was straight bullshit.
I don't really have the spoons to describe the nuances of what's wrong with the portrayal, so I'll just say there's a lot of "Sure, but not like that," happening. Do Autistic people experience extreme ableism, including infantilization and hostility? Sure, but not like that. Do we often have strong emotions and meltdowns? Sure, but not like that. Do we have strange mannerisms that allistics don't understand? Sure, but not like that.
Also I saw they support Autism Speaks so they can go straight to hell.
Another quick note: a lot of Autistic people, myself included, find person-first language to be erasure of our disability, since Autism directly affects your brain and personality.
Its a bit harmful to say the "but not like that" when autism is a spectrum. Some people really do behave and relate to the good doctor but what makes it feel icky is the fact its a non-autistic actor. Some people do have meltdowns that way, some do experience infantilism that way.
When i have touch related meltdowns triggered, i will smack the areas of my body that feel the trigger sensation and mumble to myself. My most intense meltdowns i HARSHLY bite my own arms and hands while crying. Meltdowns are different for everyone
fr, its a show for allistic people to watch a fake autistic person like a zoo animal, and plays into a bunch of of their preconceived notions about us without any actual neurodivergent input, whilst also reassuring them that this is a good and compassionate way to view all actual autistic people. and implies that theres some kind of consistent autistic experience that we all conform to ugh. there's just no way for this to be a good portrayal, even before you throw in the allistic actor and autism speaks connections, because the concept of 'its a doctor show but the autism itself is the REAL spectacle' is inherently fcked. theres no ONE problem, the vibes are just rancid. its one of those 'p0!nography, you know it when you see it' things, but 'ableism! you know it when you see it'
@@teratsukielizabeth543 I agree with you. When I said, "...not like that," I was referring to the actor's poor portrayal of very real Autistic behaviors. He doesn't do it with the nuance that would make it resonate with me. I go through very difficult things as well. Sometimes I get so overstimulated I go catatonic. But allistic people see that and, because they can't relate it to the sensory feelings, believe it's just a thing we do and not a reaction to something. He's not acting out the internal overstimulation but the visible response, and it makes it feel disconnected.
@@queenwednesdayart yes. ADHD but I have had sensory meltdowns and it may not be the same but it something always triggers it. Usually its sound for me over a period time or over stimulation (I never left a 4+ hour family gathering even to date without crying at some point because of overwhelm) and if it happens fast my reactions tend to be more volatile because I didnt have the time to find a way self soothe like during slower triggers.
Sorry for the rant. But I just wanted to say I empathize with the infantilization and lack of care put into those portrayals, and that it never "just happens" without a reason even if the reason isnt always obvious.
any one else weirdly impressed by Jarvis knowing that J was that 10th letter of the alphabet off top or am I just dumb? like normal people don't just know what number each letter is right? Someone CONFIRM I'M NOT STUPID PLS
you’re not dumb 😭 i would have to go through each letter and count before i could tell you which number of the alphabet j was 💀
Possibly because of his comp sci background he would know. In hexa letters correspond to numbers.
@@ChimboFunk nope he just remembers everything
Hexadecimal only includes 10 digits and then 6 letters so j isn't used
probably bc it's the first letter of his name.
@@strawberrychuu4377 I paused and counted on my fingers to check lmfao
yeah i cannot with CBT therapy. to me it just feels like lying to myself. like excuse me? i'm not just gonna try and retrain my brain to think happy thoughts if i'm sad. i'm gonna want to feel sad and learn how to work through my sadness. and the same thing, i just never felt like the therapists i've had have ever tried to challenge me to get better. it's just a very soft focus, "oh that must be really difficult" like bitch, i need you to be an active participant and guide me on my outlook and how to get better.
cbt is one of the only therapy methods proven to legitimately work/improve one’s condition across all socioeconomic backgrounds. it’s an amazing thing and it seems like you just don’t really understand how it should be done or have had a bad experience personally. you don’t have to like it, but it is literally one of the best things psychology has EVER created
CBT for sensitive people is just, hey gaslight yourself.
I reccomend looking into dbt, it's more about life skills and stuff, I have to do it for my bpd but I've heard it can be really good for autism too (I'm also autistic for context)
@@eskykitty the effectiveness of CBT can heavily rely on the provider though, since the video is talking about people with ASD (like me) it's a good example. Studies have shown CBT can provide benefit to autistic adults but since the standard CBT steps generally require a good understanding of internal emotions this can be challenging for autistic people to fulfil, (there are other examples but I don't want to write a thesis), these kind of restrictions mean that while yes CBT can be a great too, especially for neurotypicals, for neurodivergent people the care is only good as the provider and if a therapist isn't willing to adapt the CBT to work with you and your limitations it's effectiveness can be strongly decreased.
I don't know if OP is neurodivergent, but if they're trying and it's the therapists not applying themselves to molding the therapy to work with OP's restrictions it really might not be their lack of understanding, (god knows the amount of therapists I've told repeatly I'm autistic, I have a limited recognition of my emotions you need to be patient with me, who have gotten frustrated with me for not being able to tell them what I was feeling.)
@@NicrophorusVesp you’re absolutely right, that’s why i point out that they’ve personally had a bad experience. only providers who specialize in providing cbt to neurodivergent people should be the ones doing it. though obviously they’re hard to find, expensive, a bunch of other issues obviously play into the accessibility of that. but cbt can absolutely help people with autism if it’s done correctly so it’s really frustrating to see it boiled down to what the op said about it above. those kinds of remarks may make people see it poorly and never seek out treatment that may really help them. that’s why i hate to see people painting cbt or other treatments with such a broad brush. i mean therapy being successful in general relies on having a good provider, that’s not only a cbt thing. that’s just all mental health or psychology related treatments.
First of all, love the pod!
I can't speak on autism specifically but I have ADHD and I work in basically medical administration. The ACGME (the counsel that regulates training doctors), clearly recognizes that many doctors have mental health disabilities.
You can be disabled and you can be frustrated with living your life with a disability. And you can also see positives, or feel connect with a sense of community (especially online). You should not have to see it as a "super power" or be told "you are so strong". And you shouldn't have to see it as something that means you are useless or be treated like a baby. This is something I had to learn for myself, including unlearning bad stereotypes.
Basically, its complicated. It can't be summed up as "good" or "bad" it is just real life. And TV isn't always great at showing real life.
The stuff with the trans women being played by cis men is that it happens so often, that at this point I'm even happy when it's at least a cis woman playing the role of a trans woman (which is still not ideal lmao, would much rather have trans women in those roles)
No joke, this show is actually a big reason as to why it took so long for me to realize that I'm on the spectrum. My mom used to watch it, and with everyone saying that is was "good" representation, I just kind of believed it. I remember how thrown I was the first time a coworker of mine asked me if I was autistic, because even years later, this show had stuck in my mind of what autism in a person looks like. After doing research and hearing real stories from other autistic people online, I was floored by how deeply I related, how all these odd things about myself that I'd always just written off as parts of my personality were actually shared by so many others. Even then, I didn't truly believe it for a while, I was afraid that I was just searching for some sort of label to explain the parts of me that I'd never understood. Then my family got tested, and it turns out that three out of the four of us siblings are on the spectrum somewhere. My mom stopped watching the show shortly after that, thank fuck.
Jordan, hearing you talk about your experiences with fear around immigration are really valuable to me. Even when you're doing everything right and above board, it's difficult to fully commit and plan ahead for your future when you're afraid you could get kicked out of the country at any point without warning. That feeling of impermanence is so real and deeply affecting.
An amazing representation that I personally relate to is extraordinary attorney woo. The actress studied austism spectrum and it's super awesome at letting people know that everyone with autism is different! She helped me accept myself as I'm seen as awkward and blunt without understanding that I was doing it until people told me. I think logically like her and i love watching her stim bc it makes me feel normal and able to recieve love :3. The good doctor on the other hand makes it seem like autism is a burden and exaggerated in a bad way. I disliked it very much.
also, with the exception on her dad, NOBODY INFANTILIZES HER!!!!!
UGH YES I love EAW, it felt so good how people defend her because they know she's capable and good at her job and works hard to maintain respect rather than infantilizing her or playing up the fact that she's autistic -- my one critique is the episode where they meet a client's autistic son, the sound effects were a bit ehhhh and over the top but it does a lot good that it outweighs that one bad episode. but yeah EAW owns my whole heart. I'm gonna rewatch it to recover from being reminded that the good doctor exists asldklsfs
Literally commented the same lol, I love that show
It’s such an amazing portrayal that makes me so happy, the movements along with her meltdowns and her general attitude are awesome, and my favorite part is how educational it is! My mom watched it and I can say that it’s helped her understand me better and sees it in a better light
Yeah I thought it was a little over the top but overall one of the best depictions. I also really love how she uses her special interests to save the day, and they’re framed as good!! And her love interest adapts to her needs, calming her down during overloads by mentioning her special interests and helping her with sensory stuff. It’s really the first example in media I’ve seen of autistic traits being adapted to rather than demonized.
as an autistic person i watched a few seasons of the good doctor a few years back. i watch most media with autistic characters because i am desperate for representation even if it is bad. the conversation on why most representation is bad is often misunderstood by non autistic people. a few people in the comments mentioned not liking the sad boys laughing at the clips of sean. there are lots of autistic people who have meltdowns very siimilar to seans, they can seem exagerated in the show if youve never met someone who acts like that before. similarly his rigid c3po style movements, and weird speech pattern are accurate to alot of autistic peoples experiences and we have been laughed at all our lives for acting this way. i dont think it is the place for non autistic people to critique or laugh at these portrayals and ive never seen a non autistic person talk about autism in a non harmful way even if their intention is good. for me this portrayal of autism is so off because its so forced and inauthentic, not because its inherently incorrect if that makes sense.
As a non-autistic person, I think your reasoning makes perfect sense.
I can also relate to your reasoning. My mother has Huntington’s Disease and I try and find what little representation is out there. There was a scene on ‘House’ where 13 (who has HD in the show) was comforting someone who had the chorea symptoms. The actor (who from what I can tell did not have HD. But if I find out later that the actor did have it, then I will change my opinion) was clearly try to mimic what chorea looked like, but I could tell that it was off and an incorrect portrayal (note though, that chorea does technically look different for everyone. But there are similarities). But there is no good way to act it out, because there is a fundamental lack of experience, or authenticity, that an actor will have when trying to. It just isn’t right, like they read a list of symptoms and had nothing else to go off of, if that makes sense.
I laughed a bit at it, because I knew from experience that it just looked wrong and I can tell exactly why. But if someone who did not have family with HD, or they did not have experience dealing with the people who have this condition, and didn’t know the pain of watching someone go through it, it would seem tasteless.
i have meltdowns somewhat like that but his portrayal just feels off. probably because he gets everything he knows from autism speaks 🙄
I love how they treated the transformation of Elliot Page in Umbrella Academy because it mirrored their real life - they didnt just 'gave them a suit/dress'
i personally want trans actors to be trans characters but if someone really doesn’t want to do that instead of cis men playing trans women maybe just cast a cis women like init’s sunny
They cast a cis woman to play a trans woman in a short story arc in Ally McBeal in the 90s.
@@lisavandenhoven5672 that’s good! i wasn’t saying that it’s sunny was the only piece of media that does this it’s just the only one that came to mind. i really want to be an actor and i hope it gets easier for all trans people in my position!
Truue that’s how I feel as well, people go “oh well it’s just acting, someone doesn’t need to be trans to play a trans person” but it’s like, okay, so why cast someone that’s not even the same gender as the character? It just feels like they’re saying “yeah a trans person is just a man wearing a dress” instead of acknowledging our actual genders. But also, trans actors already struggle getting roles so casting cis people to play them feels insulting. (It’s unfortunate that the Sabrina show on netflix was so shit because it actually has a great example, to me, of them using a young trans actor and portraying a fairly good transition story without making it an overly huge deal, and it was one of the few times I’ve seen a show bother to include a transmasc character. If only the writing had been good in any other way 😅)
@@finpin2622 i completely relate about sabrina i am not trans masc (genderqueer but more fem presenting) but it’s nice to see like actual trans people playing trans characters same with the dumpster fire that is euphoria. i definitely don’t want to brush past like how important it is for trans people to be cast in any roles but specifically to play trans people. it’s just so much more disrespectful if they have a cis man play a trans woman especially because it’s normally to make fun of them.
but trans “women” are men so it’s more appropriate to hire a man
Jordan is sitting like a normal person. If you sit like a stock photo you are the weird one
Kit Kats might taste better to you in Canada/UK because Kit Kat is owned by Hershey, who's chocolate isn't actually considered "real chocolate" by global standards, and subsequently isn't sold with the original (not legally chocolate) recipe outside the states.
AFAIK chocolate in Canada has the same weird additive that the US does
@@chenwingsee but kitkat is owned by nestle outside of the us, so i believe the recipe is slightly different
both Hershey and Nestle have histories of using slave labor
@@christinewarden3450 that doesn't affect the taste
@@popejaimie it does effect whether or not you should buy it at all in the first place
A therapist I had for a while literally told me I should cultivate an aura of mystery. I still do not know what that meant.
Be a mystery man/woman? I have no idea what this means but it's fun to imagine somebody with a dark aura extending out.
i feel like i have to share this because i have a very similar experience to you guys when you worked for patreon. i had a girl in high school who everyone spoke to me about because we were "so similar" and it turned out we were just both jewish and had L names and the same birthday. it's a very niche experience but i feel i can relate to you guys on that level.
TW: mention of se*ual abuse
I cannot agree more with what Jarvis says at 41:55 - if you have a bad therapist, get the heck out of there. I was se*ually abused years ago and when I told my therapist what had happened (in a time when the event began to haunt me), she unironically said "you could try to see it from his side" and "other women would have enjoyed what he did". She apparently just tried to "open my mind to see the situation in a different light" because if I wanted to report him to the police "he would not be found guilty" because I "didn't say 'no'" (I was half-asleep when it happened). Totally not cool. It was not about me and my feelings anymore but about what the abuser thought, felt and wanted. Like, I know what he wanted, I don't need you to tell me that. I need you to listen to me and help me to deal with that had happened. Not give me legal advice I did not ask for.
I once went to a therapist who essentially told me I couldn't be trans/nonbinary because I hadn't known I was trans as a kid?
Like... I didn't know what being nonbinary was until my senior year of high school? I didn't know anyone could be that until then?
As a kid I barely knew what being trans meant (and I only knew basically a transmedicalist+"trapped in the wrong body" barebones version of it, because I was raised by progressive but cishet parents in the 90s). I didn't feel like "a boy trapped in a girl's body" (I had 0 body dysphoria before puberty) and didn't want to get any surgery I didn't immediately need to survive, so how would I have known I was trans at that point?
Your story is way worse, though. I'm sorry it happened.
Either way, the wrong therapist can fuck you up.
I'm so glad The Good Doctor is finally getting clowned on, I have 1 friend who has been watching it ironically for years.
theres a kdrama named "extraordinary lawyer woo" about an autistic woman, and its really cute and as a person with autism i did enjoy how the show went about it :)
The first US show to have an autistic character (explicitly autistic, not coded autistic) played by an openly autistic actor as a lead role was Everything's Gonna Be Okay. It aired for two seasons starting in *2020.* Ultimately it had 3 series regulars who were autistic characters played by autistic actors (and an additional occasionally appearing character). I really recommend the show (it's a fun comedy that deserved more seasons than it got), but it's absurd that it took that long for US creators to put autistic actors in autistic roles.
But this is a problem that disabled actors in general face. Sighted actors will be cast ahead of blind actors in the role of a blind character. And unlike something like a career, where you can reasonably expect an actor to present an experience they haven't actually had, in the case of many if not all disabilities you are looking at something that fundamentally change how a person experiences the world. Disabled actors will be able to bring their perspective to those roles in a way actors without the experience never will. As the disability rights movement says, "nothing about us without us."
31:58 I am an actor with autism!! It gets insanely frustrating to see allistic actors consistently cast in autistic roles and then have casting directors and showrunners publicly bemoan the lack of autistic actors (or complain about how "hard" autistic actors are to work with, which is a whole other topic). We exist! We're out there! I was recently in a production of Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time (a show/book i have...opinions about. but a paycheck is a paycheck and the director was also autistic) and a weird amount of the conversation around the show was the fact that an autistic actor was playing Christopher. I'm proud of my autism and I'm proud to be representing autistic characters on stage, but the fact that it's notable for an autistic character to be played by an autistic person in 2023 is...strange and frustrating. A lot of it comes down to the fact that people want to represent autism because it's a hot button issue and makes you seem progressive, but no one wants to actually take the time to accommodate autistic actors.
Ive seen black autistic people joke that casting allistic actors instead of autistic ones is "the blackface of autism" and i oculdnt agree more because autism is NEUROLOGICAL you literally cannot understand these sensory sensations if you dont have an SPD, autism, ect..
@Beans I'm black and autistic. It's completely fine to make that comparison (in my eyes, at least) lol. Both are inadvertantly, sometimes intentionally, mocking a mirginalized group by mimicking what they perserve us to be for the sake of enterainment. The goal with blackface is to make people laugh. The goal with autisticbody is drama. All of it is offensive.
@beans1557 not all of us have the privilege of masking
the difference in their sitting is really funny to me
About the Ozempic thing: my grandma is diabetic, and she had to like wait MONTHS to even have a meeting about getting a prescription. And it’s only because she’s still working that she had health insurance to cover the price, because she was telling me that she wouldn’t be able to afford it otherwise. But she ended up getting the prescription and I’m pretty sure it’s working great for her
the only tangible person I know to watch young sheldon is my dad. It’s so bizarre because I’ve only known him to watch the same old shows on repeat, having absolutely no desire to watch anything new. this only changed around march when he randomly started watching young sheldon. it’s on the tv almost all the time now. I’m still grappling with it. hearing anyone mention young sheldon feels personal now
my parents are huge big bang theory fans and they’ve been watching young sheldon since it started. it also feels personal whenever anyone mentions it😭
@@daddycool7316 I can’t believe you’ve been in the trenches for that long 🫡 godspeed dude
I broke up with my long term therapist 2 weeks ago for reasons similar to why Jarvis is thinking about it. But can we talk about how stressful it is to find a therapist that you not only connect with, but also has availability and takes your insurance 🙃
I made the mistake of being in a good place mentally just before we went into lockdown in Australia. I’m not anti lockdown, I’m actually somewhat proud of how we handled the pandemic here, there were plenty of mistakes but at least we tried to protect vulnerable people for the first couple of years. I got a referral to see a psych again because mine expired and his first available appointment was over 8 months away 😬
@@littleflick it’s truly the worst
As a therapist I always really enjoy hearing you guys talk about your therapy journeys. Love to hear what you both find beneficial and less so
My fav kdrama is extraordinary attorney woo and it’s actually a really well done, highly recommend. As an autistic person, the good doctor is quite hurtful in it’s depiction, at least for me😭 jordan is extremely correct in saying the dude’s performance is “fetishised”
I can’t lie tho, the clips do make me laugh because of the level of ridiculousness
sad boyz making me a happy gal is weirdly ironic
Sad boyz and the happy gals... I would watch that 👀
@@SilentTrip petition to make sad boyz and happy gals the title of an episode 🤭
they're such silly lil guys i adore it
Nuh uh
I'm autistic and like many of my autistic peers in the comments, I wasn't diagnosed until adulthood. My mom loves this show and I honestly never even saw a clip of it before now, but seeing it now only makes me more certain that it's shows like this that have made it so common to view autism as only existing in boys, and only manifesting as 'childlike' behaviors/obvious social deficits. If this is what people without significant media literacy view us as, there is simply very little hope for anyone who isn't a little white boy to have their struggles seen.
P.S. Jarvis and Jordan often use 'person/people with autism' to describe autistic individuals, which is totally cool and fine! But, you might also notice that most of the autistic people in the comments are phrasing it differently. If you're not super up to date with the community and the general sentiments around identity language, the reason why a lot of us label ourselves as 'an autistic person, autistic, or 'being autistic' rather than people with autism is because we generally view identity-first language as being more representative of our experiences nowadays. Not everyone feels this way, and it's even still the academic standard to use person-first language, but I just wanted to point that out as some information that people might not know.
Thanks for reading, fellow Sad Boyz!
Idk if it will make a difference but personally I think the original Korean version of "the good doctor" does a much better depiction of someone with autism however, they still have the "genius" trope but it's a plot device......so in some way it can be excused as media being media (as far as I'm concerned, I know everyone isn't gonna feel the same). Of course there are problems that come from ignorance but it's better than it American counterpart
Also, you might like "extraordinary attorney woo". It does a better job in that show. You can tell that the actress worked really hard to do the depiction of someone with autism justice....
@Flovonne Johnson I've really wanted to watch that, thank you for the suggestion! I completely understand where you're coming from, I just wish they did better with the American adaptation.
I watched the show bc I grew up loving House M.D. and was interested to see another medical show by David Shore. While I don’t think the writing is good and there are a lot of things to criticize about the show, it was watching and relating to Shaun’s struggles that pushed me to self reflect and ultimately accept as an adult woman that I am and have always been autistic. I was diagnosed at age 5 but multiple circumstances likely including the bias you speak of cast enough doubt on it to not securely be able to have that identity label or government-issued support growing up. Seeing these “childlike” traits in an adult like Shaun helped me to accept that my sensory/social difficulties weren’t something I was going to ‘grow out of’, no matter how many useful coping mechanisms I learned for them, and that yes adults can still have bad days and meltdowns when they’re pushed to their limits and it’s just another part of life. Shaun’s ending monologue in the season 3 episode “Disaster” was the first time my struggles in the context of being an adult felt seen. Maybe on a large scale this doesn’t happen, but I can only speak from my own experience, to offer a little hope if nothing else.
@@timburtonlover369 I'm really glad you had that experience. Congratulations on finding things out ❤️ I am very glad that this show could be something more for at least one person.
@Beans That's a great explanation, and I'm grateful you shared it! I feel very similarly, and I always advocate for people using whatever labels fit them-- only you can truly define yourself, and people need to respect that. Thank you!
Im a late diagnosed autistic person, and i gotta say shows like the good doctor (which i didnt watch but have been aware of for a long time) definitely prevented me from recognising that i am autistic and seeking out an assessment. In fact due to shows like the good doctor my perception of autism was so warped and i held so many slightly ablest ideas without even recognising it that when my therapist brought up that i might be autistic i freaked out. My line of thought was completely shrouded by influences like the good doctor where i believed i couldnt possibly be autistic because i wasnt like shaun or like sam from atypical. The journey of unlearning those misconceptions through research and diagnosis (while my research is still ongoing as autism isnt the monolith these shows portray, so theres always more to learn) have helped me better understand myself, and shows like this prevented it from happening sooner
Yup, how can I truly be autistic if I'm not a super genius baby boy without social skills? :/
these two have extraordinary vibes. i could listen to themtalk about literally anything together
I honestly really like the Korean Good Doctor (which I watched before the American rip-off was made). Yeah, some of the things they say about autism are kind of stupid, but so much so that you're not tempted to take them seriously. As someone who's on the autistic spectrum myself, I dislike the American Good Doctor more, partly because people seem to take it seriously as a supposedly good depiction of autism. Your remark about "kid-coded" was quite good.
I don't know about the Good Doctor, but I watched Attorney Woo and it was pretty good. As always, there are some weird ideas, but pretty good overall.
"kid-coded" is better described as "infantilized" imo, but ik im being pedantic (｡ﾉω＼｡)
@@ZhovizHalgo yeah I second this, like there are the usual pitfalls of representation where an autistic character is called a ‘genius’ but overall I still related a lot to the main character in comparison to nearly any other autistic rep I’ve seen
@@ZhovizHalgo Attorney Woo was okay, but it's also another one of those that make out autistic people to be these academic geniuses. Those people are usually outliers and not the majority. Most autistic people are just average intelligence, and it also depends on the severity of their autism.
@@beingme._.eilonwy4571 "severe autism" isn't a thing
I learned a while back that sometimes companies will have to change their branding in other countries because of already existing brands with the same name. This came up when a friend (who lives in Canada) and I (American) were discussing our favorite microwave meals (for when we don't have the energy to cook proper), and we were comparing the brands Crave and Devour, not realizing until after he sent me a picture of the box and we realized we were talking about the same thing, literally.
Later, while working at my grocery store, I rang up someone's Crave dog food, and it made sense why the branding would have to be different in America.
As an autistic person I LOVE shitting on the Good Doctor but it's become a bit of a minefield where some people are making fun of things autistic people actually do and it's like bro that's not- that's not what we're here for. Not gonna lie you guys were doing that a bit as well, with the laughing at the C3PO clip.
Also the show supports autism speaks which is an anti-autism hate group.
Honestly
Yeah I wasn’t a massive fan of some of their reactions to the clips, I mean I agree those clips weren’t good but it did feel kind of weird
Personally I didn’t have an issue with it (I also have autism just for the record) to me it was more that they were making fun of how studios and directors think autistic people are robots. Like ik I can be kinda awkward with my body sometimes but I’m never doing C-3PO impressions and I’ve never seen another autistic person move in that way. To me they’re laughing at how poorly portrayed it is not the idea that autistic people can be awkward in their movements etc.
@@tarettime9392 yeah, i was wondering where they even got that stereotype? it's as if they were at the same party as someone explaining t-rex arms but at least two rooms away--like autistic people can and do move differently from nt but that clip is has almost nothing to do with things real autistic people actually do (vs the meltdown clip :/ )
(my 'they' is referring to the show creators & actor if that's unclear)
I make fun of my own autism behaviors all the time its a lie to say we dont look strange or ridiculous from time to time just like neurotypes
As much as it can be funny to make fun of the good doctor for how bad it is, it’s also just a really damaging show. I can only give my thoughts from the few clips I’ve seen (personally I think anyone can have option of representation, but the people who experience it are the only ones that can fully understand if it’s good or not, and as an autistic person I feel like I have the right to say how it is as someone who lives it.) the representation is just bad. Having an non autistic actor (and I assume no autistic writers) makes it so much worse as personally seeing someone act out issues I live with, especially meltdowns feels incredibly uncomfortable to me. We deserve good and correct representation, but we barely get any. Instead we get this which I know will not help people treat us better, probably the opposite
Worse than no autistic writers. They work with Autism Speaks.
For years I’ve assumed this show was just a show about a guy playing an autistic doctor with a bit of a flat affect and savant syndrome, a bit ableist but ultimately just a drama, but in the past 2 days I’ve heard so much about what happens just in the first 5 episodes and its like ???? I’m now deeply concerned for the autistic people I know who said it was fine
My mom is a physician’s assistant and a former respiratory therapist and my dad is an infectious diseases doctor and they laugh hysterically every time the long side effects come on. They are so long and every one has depression, suicidal thoughts or actions, some type of bowel side effects.. just everything.
i need to say how much i appreciate and respect you both for being open about your emotions as men. not a lot of people are showing examples of healthy male friendships and what you’re doing is so so important
Not every therapist is for everybody. I had a therapist who believed in completing therapy. He helped me change my viewpoint so that I have less negative spiraling and have real coping techniques and frameworks for reflection that are not self destructive. I still am me. I still have bad days and stress and negative thoughts. But I have such an improved quality of life.
I only say this to let folks know, this is one possibility depending on the patient and the therapist. If you are seeking progress and you aren't getting it, don't be afraid to change.
That said, I personally felt little progress for 8 months and then it hit all at once. I think we all know it won't all get better right away.
21:56 the actor isn’t even autistic, that’s what really irritates me about the show, also the ‘autistic genius but still mentally a child’ trope. HIRE AUTISTIC ACTORS IF YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO TELL STORIES ABOUT AUTISM AND MAKE THEM REALISTIC, omfggg. I show a lottt of autistic traits and this show is just plain offensive and fucked up
I agree. In my opinion I don’t think autistic characters always have to be portrayed by autistic actors but if you’re going to do a show about the autistic experience and neither the writer, nor director, nor lead actor/actress are autistic. You’re not actually making a show about the autistic experience. Your making a show about the allistic understanding of autism.
@@tarettime9392 fr, personally I think the actor being autistic is vital for representation reasoning especially but I see your point, totally agree tbh, the allistic understanding of autism will never provide anything helpful or comforting to real autistic people, which I think is necessary when making a show about autistic people
@@googoogaga7986 well the reason why I say always is I think that having a autistic director/writer could still result in an accurate portrayal of the autistic experience even if the lead actor isn’t. If you have someone who really understands it guiding a talented nt actor you could still do it right imo. And if you have an autistic lead actor but nt director and writer you can have a situation wheee they’re guiding an autistic actor to a less genuine portrayal of their own experience and they might have pressure on them to not speak up about it. So I don’t think it’s always necessary but I do think you need to have someone who understands the experience in a high level of the production.
Watching after having a manic episode that made my family P ANIC... thanks for giving me a moment to breathe and focus💜 I appreciate the space you create
The actor’s movements are wild for sure, but sometimes when trying to mask (aka seem non-autistic) we overcorrect and then our body language/movements come across so strange
I agree, I mean I know that a lot of the time by body language can come across as stiff and ‘weird’ but even if they go that kind of correct, other stuff isn’t and I don’t fully believe that did that scene to not be like oh looks he’s being weird
@@greyyyyyyyyyy most definitely not saying the show is good. Just commenting that I think his body movements look somewhat like mine might when I’m trying to “act natural” or “be normal”
@@emmettvictor yeah, i think it's important to hire autistic writers and actors but a lot of this discourse makes me feel uncomfortable when it's allistic (or even some autistic people) laughing at it and being like now THAT would be CRAZY. no way ANYONE acts like that, ewwwww.
when.... i'm not saying the good doctor performance is well done or realistic, but some of the reasons that are easiest to name for why it feels ¨unrealistic¨ (like ¨wow he's so mad! he's repeating words!¨) feel kinda dehumanizing. like he is doing a caricature but if u say he's doing a caricature bc he's doing weird faces or whatever you're also implying that real autistic people like that are grotesque.
as an autist whose experience w/ autism is closer i suspect to the type most autistic people talking about this have, w a brother whose autism i think is unfortunately more accurately represented in ableist contexts than in mainstream progressive ones,... this WHOLE thing just feels gross
@@baintreachas theyre laughing at how absurd it is for a non autistic person to be portraying autism in that way is the point, it just looks icky and feels icky because of that fact. Its like people that use AAVE when speaking about black people
@Emily Robinson think about it. When people do blackface, they are being a caricature of a black person. They amp up certain aspects of stereotypes to at the expense of the people they are PRETENDING to be in order to make their demographic look terrible. The good doctor is an example of this but instead it's autism. You wouldnt cast a white actor to play a black person by changing their skin color. Doing the same to autism is promoting caricatures. You can participate in caricaturizing without knowing you are. Its INHERENTLY A CARICATURE because its an ALLISTIC "playing" autism. The scene where the surgeon turns on a hand drier and start slapping it over and over is ridiculous. HE'S A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL THAT WORKS AROUND LOUD EQUIPMENT AND PATIENTS AND UR TELLING ME HES GONNA MELTDOWN AT A HAND DRIER? 😭😭 Or the scene where he backs up from the Operation table starting to say "No, no nono!! No!! Cant do this cant do this!" And rips off his SURGICAL MASK RIGHT ABOVE THE PATIENTS OPEN CHEST.
Omg Jarvis just articulated why I’ve been feeling very meh about my therapist too! I’ve been struggling to pinpoint what it is so thank you!!
Just found this podcast/channel and i really adore the rang of topics you two (plus occasional guest) cover with both humour and thoughtfulness. the conversations feel very sincere and are really lovely to listen to
came for the sad boyz stayed for the clowning on the good doctor
my thoughts on the good doctor as an autistic person:
it's like they did their "research" on autistic ppl via tv tropes. they took everything that pisses me off about autistic representation in media and stuck it in that show. i watched maybe a quarter of the first episode and i was like: yeah, fuck no.
here's a list of everything wrong from what i've heard:
- infantilization of autistic ppl
- treating autism as a superpower (and very literally giving him superpowers. like omfg)
- literally no one treats him like a normal person. it's like "how are you on this fine day autistic friend who has a terrible case of the autism. how's the autism today? is it fair like the weather? tell me about your, what do you call it? special interest? do you like trains and dinosaurs like my autistic nephew?"
- over-exaggeration of autistic traits (like irregular inflection/tone i can let slide, but the robotic movements? really? just make him a fucking robot at this point)
- treating ableism as a plot device rather than like a genuine problem that needs to be addressed (it would be fine if it was one character that gets dunked on later imo. but it's every other person like jordan said)
- every autistic trait he has is a stereotype
- they bring his autism into the conversation when it is absolutely unnecessary
- they hired an allistic (non-autistic) actor
if you'd like to see one of the better representations of an autistic person that i've seen on tv, i'd recommend extraordinary attorney woo. don't get me wrong, it's not a perfect show, but they actually put thought and care into the portrayal of woo youngwoo. it can be a little exaggerated at points and sometimes it feels like they're making her out to be a funny quirky caricature, but most of the time, they rectify this with the way they bring up the discussion of ableism and how autism affects her positively AND negatively. also there's a cute little romantic side plot where the love interest treats her normally(!!!!) and actually communicates with her properly outside of his momentary fits of worry/panic. anyway, if you're interested, it's on netflix :-)
The caramel kit-kat in London was game changing. I don't like kit-kat but I loved that one.
As someone who's autistic, alongside other neurodivergencies: Holy shit the good doctor makes me even more uncomfy than Sheldon from Big Bang Theory.
The political ad satire can’t be peeked after Clone High. “Last year Abe said he was 15 years old, now he says he’s 16. Which is Abe better keep your story straight”
I do need everyone to know that Ozempic ripped off an actual song from the 60s that goes "oh oh oh it's magic you know"
The birds chirping was giving y’all Disney princess waking up in the morning energy
38:17 I ended up in the ER after having a bad reaction to my narcolepsy medication. My heart rate was 150 and my blood pressure was 150/90 sitting and it wouldn’t go down. For measure my blood pressure is usually around 100/60. My heart rate about 100. I went to urgent care first and they basically rushed me out to go straight to the ER.
They brought me to the back immediately after my EKG, they did an X-ray, a cat scan and gave me liquids all within the first 15 or so minutes which is abnormal for an ER in the US unless it’s serious. As they start trying to take my blood I just finally asked one of the techs if I was going to be okay. All they replied with was “just try to stay calm”.
That did not calm me. In the end the meds had plummeted my potassium which is basically heart attack city if it goes too far down. I still don’t know how serious my case was, but after some potassium liquid and coming off the meds I ended up fine. Scary as fuck, and the bed side manner was ominous to say the least.
as an autistic person, the good doctor is so insulting and such a stereotype. i watched it before realizing i was autistic and and i couldn’t relate to anything, i didn’t see myself even in one bit. it really is a crime. if a autistic person for real acted like this, they would get detained and hurt
It's insane because I genuinely loved him as an actor until this. August Rush was one of my favorite movies for a long time. He was great in Bates Motel too.
Oh wtf I haven't thought about August rush in years
as an autistic person, i watched the first few bits of this show and i did like it but it was always uncomfortable. i was so excited for a show about an autistic doctor that i wasn't seeing the bad moments until after i hadn't watched it for a while, but now seeing it is so uncomfortable. like, i relate to the good doctors mannerisms and figures of speech, but every character around him treats him like a child. the subject matter deals with a very smart, very capable doctor who saves a lot of lives... and everyone around him treats him like he's a child
Literally got diagnosed a few months ago I'm almost 30 and so much makes since. My dads autistic so I thought I had traits because he raised me and he loves this show he got into it because the korean one but like for him he likes it because he lives in a world where his only represention was basically the film rainman and that was when he was much older his special interist is tv and he always wanted to be a director (his other special intrest is math and physics and he has 3 PhD's so hes happy with his choice) . So to him this is huge representation considering his history and discriminatuon in the place. But to me shows like that is what stopped me from seeking out a diagonsis and gaslighting myself into thinking I just picked up traits even though I kind of knew for over a decade.
I also had to have a hysterectomy last year and shows like this is why its gonna be hell for me to adopt.
Yeah I think watching this show with my mom from the start of it really affected my inner perception of things. I have only recently started suspecting I may be autistic or at least have some traits, and shows/representation like this fueled my thinking of "oh I guess I'm not because I don't do this or that". The show fuels generalizations of autistic people, but I can see why it would be a comfort for your dad considering he did not have good representation growing up (not that The Good Doctor is good representation, but you take what you can get sometimes).
i definitely agree with therapists being a bit grounding in that they'll "tell it like it is" if you ask them to. i went thru a really difficult situation where i was having a breakdown w psychotic/paranoid features, and it was definitely helpful to have a third party to give their observations on what was actually going on with my relationships. obviously they can never be completely unbiased but they're not directly involved in the way a friend or relative would be, and they're trained to be able to recognize stuff like anxious paranoia or depressive spiraling. it feels more reassuring when a therapist tells me "they probably dont actually hate you, you're just anxious" than if my mom were to say that lol
jarvis is so good at impressions. he really flexed on us this episode
As a Wisconsinite living in London, Jarvis’ discovery of TK vs TJ Maxx is the validation of my experiences I didn’t know I needed
23:10 the good lawyer is an episode of the good doctor. I almost died laughing seeing Freddie’s face pop up when I googled! But US is making a remake of Extraordinary Attorney Woo and they’re gonna butchered it like Good Doctor too. American truly scared of subtitles
no shade to other liscenced mental health professinals, but the psychotherapy provided by clinical psychologists is waaaaay more effective for people with diagnosable conditions like mood disorders or personality disorders. regular talk therapy and cognitive-behavioral therapy are great for people who just need someone to check in with now and again to work through regular interpersonal issues or major life events - but, if a person has clinical depression and debilitating anxiety or wants to learn how to grow as a person while developing healthy coping mechanisms to deal with symptoms related to their diagnosis, regular talk therapy and CBT just aren't gonna cut it. to anyone reading this, there's nothing wrong with switching therapists until you find a mental health professional that has the right tools that enable you to help yourself live your best life!
canadian food standards are better for a lot of things - when i was living in the states, eating dominos, most chocolate bars, or really any cheap foods was a let down. The selection was also worse, I didn't realize how many candies we had that america doesn't. My partner says the fast food burgers are noticeably worse too, i know thats because of the differing meat standards. i was so happy when i found out the UK section in the grocery store had aero bars.
Still wondering when my autistic super powers will kick in. So far all I've gotten is an extreme sensitivity to textures of wet things and the inability to shut up about the Restoration Era. Not sure those can be considered "superpowers."
i actually stopped going to therapy all together because i could never find a good one. i went for 5 years and switched 6 times, but i felt like every time i stopped seeing a therapist i had to deal with more trauma than when i started going.
one of my friends also stopped going to therapy, and i’m noticing a few of my friends starting to get help but then say that it’s not working. idk if i happen to be surrounded by people who are also trapped in bad therapists cycle, because i know that there are some really good therapists out there that can help. for me, it just hasn’t worked, and i maybe i’ll try therapy again in the future, but right now i’ve found that just journaling and talking to friends has been way better for my mental health.
I love how the surgeon starts sounding Irish the more he says he’s a surgeon
I’m sick rn just going through your videos and it’s helping me not panic about being sick, thank you two xx
my parents watch the good doctor and they have TWO autistic kids. the show is crazy popular
regarding the talk about feeling stagnant in therapy---i can totally relate!! for a long time i only saw therapists who were very validating and gave me a lot of space to express my thoughts, but i always left the session feeling good because it was like i had just vented to a friend. but i never got better. a few years ago i started seeing a new therapist who, after the first or second session, stated that he sought a very active approach to therapy and that he required that we always be working on or challenging something. and that made me really uncomfortable at first, because i wasn't used to that approach. for the first few months i consistently left therapy feeling distressed and uncomfortable, which at first i thought was a sign that this just wasn't working.
but then i began to realize a real change in myself, and realized that because of the uncomfortable feelings and thoughts i was encouraged to face, i was actually untangling a lot of wires and i don't think i would have made the progress that i had if my therapist had not been so adamant on constant growth. therapy should be challenging!! you deserve to challenge yourself and grow as a person because of it.
A recent example of good autistic representation, there's a K drama called extraordinary attorney woo, Woo is an autistic lawyer. Though the actress who plays her isn't autistic, as a fellow afab person on the spectrum, I really found her portrayal empowering. She faces discrimination in her workplace, she makes mistakes and stands to correct them. Usually with autistic rep I've seen is the character is either a caricature to be laughed at or an ingenious, cold, stubborn, robot. Woo's character is sympathetic not just because she's on the spectrum, but also because she wants to be a good lawyer and make connections with people. Iconic girl boss fr.
Reminds me of The Big Bang Theory. I was literally talking with a coworker who, upon me saying I had autism, said "oh, like The Big Bang Theory!" Couldn't even name the character. I hate that these are the characters we're stuck with.
So glad Anastasia fact checked that hungry jacks is called that here in Aus because I was about to SPRINT to the comments and be like um actually in Australia it’s hungry jacks .
when i first saw the clip of him screaming from the top of the heavens that he is indeed a sturgeon i thought it was a tragic breakdown where he was finally falling apart and losing it, probably after a buildup over at least like half a season or something
needless to say im dissapointed