Developers vs. App Store: Apple's Fights, Explained | WSJ
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Apple’s stock-market value hit a new record this year, but its longstanding disputes with app developers are bubbling over into public view. WSJ explains why high-profile companies like Epic Games, Spotify and Tinder are at odds with App Store rules. Video/illustration: Jaden Urbi/WSJ
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#WSJ #Apple #EpicGames
Apple and Google: We dont have a monopoly
Also Apple and Google: *Owns 98% of market share of the smart phone stores*
@Andor Gyenes IPhone is the dominant phone on the market and Apple doesnt allow other stores in their OS or allow developers to link to other stores or their own websites. Google owns Android which is open source but android only allows the Play store (owned by google). You can download APKs but most people arent versed well enough on the know how to really use that method. So yes a monopoly, you cant use the stupidity of the masses to justify a corrupt system
@Andor Gyenes they do lol. Third parties are useless. Either vote and join the two main parties are lose your vote.
Monopoly means exclusive rights to manufacture something apple doesn't have that so it is not apples fault if people like apple phones and buy them the most🤷
@@sehermallik4344 apple and google effectively control the smartphone market, and they should not be allowed to do that, whether they are a monopoly or not. (in this case it's more like a duopoly, but whatever)
@@shakingwater I think this is the point
Here in India, situation is much more peculiar.
Google just planned to increase their play store commission to 30% and guess what happened.. many tech startups in India conducted a joint meeting and all of them wanted a new indian app store.
Immediately, Google deferred their 30% policy 😂
Pro Gamer move
Higher possibilities are it might even get banned due cci probe started against google for anti competation.
🍷😆 👍 .. A-CHA!
Yup Paytm, Dream11, Swiggy included
Apple does not allow alternate app store. Unlike android where you just need to check allow untrusted sources, iOS there is no way to do so.
So who is to blame here?? Everyone wants to make more money.
Yes, lol. Screw those companies. Let them kill each other .
Yup. One publishes apps and in exchange take a cut, the other implemented a workaround to not have the publisher as an intermediary for transactions, having it's app published practically for free. I know it is not a popular opinion to have on the internet, but Epic Games is the wrong one here, even though Apple's fee could be more fair... both are hungry companies going for the kill anyways
Marcos Socram i 100% agree with you
If epic doesn't want to pay a cut, they could simply develop a fortnite OS and fortnite phone
Orcahhh I disagree, I don’t think apple should have to change their app store fee but they should have to allow 3rd party app installations
Apple claiming 30% for each app is a dogshit approach, Apple will be blown out of the water soon come, Steve would be turning in his grave over its image
Epic literally did the same thing Valve did 10 years ago. Also, Epic was definitely planning this.
And what did valve do?
Epic only made their cut 12% because they wanted to do this.
I have ZERO sympathy for big app developers who voted for this duopoly when they didn't want to develop apps for Windows Phone, BlackBerry 10, Nokia MeeGo, and other alternative platforms. Suck it guys and pay your cut, you've chosen to play the monopoly game.
Agreed, same thing went through my mind. Also, if they are allowing you to reach 100 of millions people, is 30% really that much? Sounds like developers are getting greedy all of a sudden.
There is also largely a duopoly on the PC market (MAC vs Windows) and there is none of this 30% bs that Apple enforces on iOS. I don't agree with the Android part of the lawsuit though as it does not prevent you from downloading apps from anywhere the user wants.
Well, we have to pay attention to the people developing the apps. They cant just develop apps for a devices that not many people will use.
maybe you are stupid or never developed any serious app on your own ain't you?
@@NoName-sb9tp well, obviously we can't have it both ways, ignore the alternatives and then complain of the lack of competitive pricing.
"30% commission is line with the industry." What industry?! You 2 companies are the industry Google/Apple!
Steam takes a 30% cut. So does microsoft, sony, other stores too like walmart and target will take anywhere from 3-40% margins on products. So yes its inline with the industry of selling goods and services.
@@chloedegurechaff1941 how is a store with employees, rent, water, light en transport. Taking the same cut as storage box. Explain please
@@welly4907 every company have it's own margins( it means ratio of profit earned) it determine by the company itself. some company may have same margins but have always have different profits. for ex. some grocery store have 20% margins, the profit is 600,000 usd, another grocery store also have 20%, profit 800,000 usd. Usually grocery stores, or most buisness have a investors, other companies involve which received a heck alot of money if managed properly. Think of this the app store is like grocery store but virtually in the app. Usually google play, app stores paid by the companies itself to promote their app like *fortnite* and Mostly, app stores will take a lot of profit themself because money of course and virtual app will received the money easily. Grocery stores have a lot of profit waste because there are rotten foods, expired products etc. app stores do not since it's virtual, there's no way of wastage of money which means there's no loss of money whatsoever. in a nutshell, same Margin=/ same amount of profit as other stores and groceries stores have it's loss of profit because rotten, spoiled products while app has no loss of money.
@@welly4907 in a nutshell of a simplified version. Greed and money.
Tencent, Huawei, Xiaomi, Oneplus. on and on and on and on
As a developer I’m fine with the 30% fee. There connecting you with millions of people and allowing quicker and easier payments. It’s just like a 15% card.
I think 18-23% makes for a good bargain
It's not the 30% fee, it's Apple not letting devs have their own clients on iOS.
What about the poor devolpers that get by
The gall of the Fornite developer complaining that he doesn't feel like his taxes are going to roads and bridges when that commission is literally the cost of doing business in apple's app store, the greatest digital marketplace for applications in the world today, built from scratch by apple for the first time. I don't like apple and think it's model is doomed and in a way quite wrong and flawed, but this is just greed against greed. This isn't news reporting, it's commercial advertising picking sides and pretending to be fighting the good fight.
@@xandercorp6175 Except that it isn't greed at all. Apple is pulling the same stunt that Microsoft did back in the 90's when it put stringent rules on developers who wanted to use their software on Windows. The US government then intervened and forced Microsoft to allow other devs to use Windows much more freely. I don't get the morons who purposefully want Apple to have a complete monopoly on its OS, like what is in that for you?? Are you truly so brain-dead that you put corporate profit over your own convenience? Christ, luckily Epic has won a great victory and the 30% fee has been removed for 99% of devs. Now thank Epic for that.
*Galaxy Store:* Allow me to introduce myself
Galaxy store is mvp i remember downloading angry birds from there
@@sugar2000galaxy The case is simple. Apple with IPhones, and Google (with Android operated devices) are the exclusive middlemen between the customers (phone owners) and the developers. So they have monopolies (not wrong per say), but abusing the monopolies can get them into trouble. There's an on going anti-trust case on the ground of abusing the monopolies (30% commission).
Huawei Apps Store: 问候
The Xbox Marketplace the PlayStation Marketplace and the Nintendo Marketplace 2. 30% is the industry standard I know a lot of companies don't like it but that is the worldwide International standard for digital marketplaces. 30%. I think that's a lot of stores take as well. I think a lot of brick and mortars also take 30%
😂😂😂
The case of spotify is blatantly, come on, how can you compete with apple music when you gave up 30% of the subscription only to exist on the app store. Although you pay the same (at least in my country) ( for fair competition purposes), apple music have more cash flow to invest into collaboration with the artists, can offer much better conditions at the other side of the stick, in the long run it's an advantage. Is there something missing? Is Apple applying the same 30% commission on "her" apple music app?
It might cause Apple Music is basically a refined version of Beats Music. One has to look into the contract as how much does Apple invest into Beats.
Actually Spotify is a little cheaper and you get more artist because apple only allows verified artist
Completely agree. I don't care how much Apple takes its cut. But it should never try to put its app on the app Store. It's just unfair for startups
why woud apple take a 30% commison of thier own app,they would just give themselves back thier own money
@@upgradewithme2350 That's exactly the point he's making. They wouldn't do it to themselves but they crush their competition when they tell them they can compete with Apple Music but take 30% the moment someone subscribes to that app's service.
A serious impact on Apple’s finances? Seriously?
It's not about their current financial situation, it would impact Apple's finances in the long run
to thier stock price since lossing fee will do that..
On a large scale....
App Store sales revenue accounts for 40% of Apple’s total revenue according to xyz (can’t recall which video) but that just explains how many eggs they have in this basket...
willd0g take away 50% revenue and they’re still prob top 50 worldwide
Now Google move to hardware and Apple to Software
Apple was always software company and still is. There is nothing Apple itself doing something physically except some basic assemblies of some products... They just design.
On the other hand, for Google, hardware is still very very very minor market.
Merger?
All these apps would not exist without apple and the app store.
Imagine netflix renting DVDs, spotify selling CDs or tinder being a matchmaking agency.
They've grown so much in recent years but instead of thanking apple they're suing them 🤨
30% for others
15% for amazon
Hmmm
how thought Amazon sells physical products, right?
@@Aniket2712 amazon prime video
Amazon specifically asked for the percentage cut. They got approved by Apple and that's why they can do it
@@algebruh_m8652 epic asked for the same thing..
I believe Apple and Amazon had a trade off. Apple gets a discount for selling on Amazon and Amazon gets a discount for streaming on Apple.
So Apple is charging 30% commission. Okay if we look at the App Store as a physical brick and mortar store similar to Walmart, if you go to Walmart and buy $100 worth of items the cost of that was possibly around $75 so that’s $25 profit to Walmart. In the case of the AppStore, it’s the same model except rather than passing the cost onto the customer they pass that on to the product. It would like if Coke sold product in Walmart and Walmart sold it at cost to the consumer and then went to coke and said, “hey we sold 100 bottles of coke you need to pay us for generating you revenue” this isn’t anything bad on Apple it’s simply business. Buying an app in the AppStore is no different then walking into a shopping mall.
stock has a relatively high short interest. there recent earnings report was way better than expected. I think they may also see high short term gains.
I added NIO and WKHS. so far so good what are your thoughts on ENPH.? I bought them on a hunch years back, thinking energy storage is the key. it's been up up up.
I'm loving the growth in NIO lately. WKHS could do same. I learning towards adding some more shares. Great thanks to my investments advisor Paul Helfer. Seriously you have to love the 400% gain in ENPH over the last year. The chart looks stable and their technology is the future. it looks good for me so far.
1-262-4774926
0:48 I didn't think I'd hear Epic games, owned by Tencent, creator of the much-despised Epic Game Store be called "beloved by the public"
That's because you are living in a bubble.
@@antoniorsoftware No, it isn't beloved by the public, people hate Tencent and in turn hate Epic
Majority of people think of Fortnite as its own entity.
Miguel Ortega yea, but those who know of epic think of epic as being evil, since they are owned by Tencent, they have a monopoly on the gaming market
@Vogue Arts yeah but what I am saying is my assumption is the majority of people don't know that, which is why the video says Epic is beloved by the public. I'm not making an argument about whether Tencent is evil or not.
And same thing is being done by Google ...charges 30% for in app purchases.
Epic also started a suit against google. Their argument so far has been that Apple and Google together represent a duopoly for Appstores and that they have an unspoken agreement to not rock the boat, which is why neither company has ever considered lowering the percentage. It isn't yet clear how the courts will respond to that argument, but I'm sure Epic's lawyers have put forth much more than just that claim.
Google didn't create a complete monopoly - you can install rival app stores (e.g. www.amazon.com/gp/mas/get/amazonapp)
And so does PlayStation and Xbox
@@trapfethen apt!
@@brianszuter2452 Exactly. The difference between apple and android is that on android you're free to download other stores, not succumb to a monopoly.
I completely understand Apple charging a fee from the developers. What I don't like is *30%* . Make it 15 or 20 and all is good.
Before the AppStore, the cut was 70% (stores) / 30% (developers). Apple could drop to 20%, and as "revenge", doesn`t allow Epic to come back to the AppStore...
What about Google taking 45% of RUclips revenue?
@@gustavogargate oh if Apple loses. Google is next.
It probably helps apple offset high taxes by passing the burden on to their service vendors
@@alsimplicio that is actually a very good idea.
It’s the same as a supermarket, they still need to make a profit large enough so that they can negate the money they put in for updates to Xcode (apple’s app ide), swift (programming language for used to write Apple apps), and frameworks such as metal, arkit, coreml, and more. All of these are free for every developer and receive continuous updates every year with new features that devs can utilize. Hosting the app on the App Store and providing users with security when using apps and transactions also requires specific Apple employees and money.
True, but they literally dont allow other app stores
Call me an Apple sheep but I dislike how everyone only points out app store’s 30% fee when it’s literally the industry standard.
Exactly
Apple sheep
No one is discrediting the 'Industry standard' cut. The issue here is that Apple has blocked any alternatives to the App Store with IOS's closed off nature. On Android you can install the Amazon app store or download apk files online and bypass the Google Play app store entirely. Either Apple allows a similar alternative for getting apps on its platform or it has to cease its own competing services like apple music, arcade ect. As they're able to bypass their own 'industry standard' and compete on an unfair playing field with their competitors such as Spotify. They can't have it both ways.
@@unarmedduck Apple is a privacy focused company and that is one of the reasons many people buy apple products and these alternate means of downloads create a risk to privacy. Even Google, Microsoft does not support it by displaying a message that it can harm your device.
Yes you are a dumb apple sheep....how can spotify,netflix compete with apple's services when they are paying them 30% cut.... everyone play's by the rules except apple
It’s not developers vs apple :D It’s greedy companies vs apple
It’s greedy companies against each other.
So Apple is not greedy also?
bro thought apple wasn't a greedy company💀
It’s like being the owner of a venue, and then having merchants who want to use the venue complain that they have to pay to be there...
well said. apple is in the right here.
It's is as simple as that. This is a non-issue imo. Let them create their own "venue" if they do not like the current one.
No, that's not how antitrust works. Imagine a monopoly on gas making prices insanely high. Yes, they have the right to do so, but it hurts consumers, thus such things are highly regulated. As an app developer, you have no other choice than go to the app store, so 30% cut it is a monopolistic behaviour that hurts both companies and consumers.
Its more like the country has only has 2 venues and a merchant wants to negotiate terms but can not because it has no other options.
Jonathan D you can try and build your own venue then. Apple offers the security, the platform, and the user base that comes with it. You are free to be the next blackberry or Nokia ecosystem. You have that choice, and you made that choice by taking the easier way, which comes at a cost.
When you put your business on Apple appstore, they don't charge you a fee, they own 30% of your business.
Look the problem here is there is no alternative people can go to in apples environment. There is no way to get your own apple store. Apple has full control of your device even if you bought it. People deserved the right to be able to install there own apps with ease on their own devices.
They cut the fee today by half to 15%. Great win for the app-development ecosystem!
that 30% commission is worth it if it means i don't have to download apps from random websites that may contain malware among other things. it costs money to build and support an app store. having apps be vetted and payments made securely is more important than having too many app marketplaces to choose from. there is such a thing as too many choices. other companies are more than free to raise capital and build their own OS and hardware if they don't like iOS and Android business models.
The app developers refused to develop apps for windows phone they literally created the monopoly
That’s a ridiculous comment. How can you even compare that? If I were a developer, I wouldn’t spend resources on developing for a platform that has an nonexistent user base.That’s an absolute waste of money on research and development. There are no profits to be made there.
@@geo5106 Yes but windows phone was a competition and new at the time of cource there wouldn’t be that many users
It's kinda a chicken & egg problem: Windows phone (or other mobile phone platforms) don't have a relevant user base, so it doesn't make sense financially for app developers to invest into these platforms. However, without the apps these platforms aren't as appealing to users as Apple & Google and therefore have a hard time building a user base.
@@Kaiyats Yes. Exactly what Thytos is saying and adding to it. It was not a developer problem; it was Microsoft's problem. There was a reason why Google/Apple succeeded and Microsoft/Nokia failed. Let me refer to the Microsoft CEO when he laughed off the iPhone during its debut. Microsoft completely misunderstood the market and were slow to adapt. That's what really killed the window's phone.
Similar in India indian app companies teaming up against google who were accused of monopoly these app companies coming up with their own app stort.
I thought Indians love google?
@@shido8597 when you love someone but they start showing thier true colours.
@@shido8597 indian developers don't
As patriotic as it sounds, it simply isn't going to work. Don't forget, Google not only owns the PlayStore, but also the Android Operarting Systems. Even if you come up with your own app trading platform, they are still going to be run on Google owned OS. Google can simply patch their OS not to install or run any apps outside of the PlayStore. In fact, this will dig a deeper hole in trying to excape Google monopoly.
How can start-up rival big companies if they can't survive? This 30% tax is make or break situations with single point of failure.
@R S well Developers like us wrk day and night to give Google 30% fee fr nothing?? Google nvr gives us downloads fr free..We need to advertise our App to increase downloads..F-k google & F-k Apple
@R S Okay, except developers still need to rent an office and keep staff paid too, and let’s not act as if Apple or google will survive without developers. At this point (12 years after) it is mutualism and not a privilege and all should have a say in the terms of engagement
@@vinaybhat7670 if you don't like it then you can take your app to other platforms. it's not like Apple or Google force you to put it on their platforms.
@R S well we owe Google?? How will b android without, whatsapp, Facebook, Insta, Tiktok, Netflix?? Thats it, Android is wat it is today because of App developers..
@@hkrickywu well if we do so, android will start to scare users by saying, "Theis App is dangerous, as its outside PlayStore, please Uninstall it" ...we know how these Trillion dollar companies play with Small companies with their monopoly.. be ready to pay 30% more frm ur pocket..even fr Netflix subscription
In the old days when you bought physical media, the store cut was 50%.
Yea, but you had an actual physical person working at that store selling you that stuff who needs money to survive, not a bot that handles 100k+ purchases simultaneously 24/7. 30% cut for both initial app purchase and in-app purchases is insane especially when maintaining that bot costs them essentially nothing. Apple and Google are claiming that most of that is going for R&D for the app stores which is bs, nothing has changed past 10y or so with the stores.
Tonzma did you think about the people spending their whole day checking the store for viruses, patching bugs or programming the bots themselves?
I think this was suppose to be a joke, but k
@@saviorayan8143 scale. Think about the scale.
@@Tonzma engineers who develop the store and keep it functional deserve to get paid.
Apple and Google are right, they acquired the top position with hard work, 30% is not like taxes that never go to roads and infrastructure, it is the premium for one to be able to publish their products on the biggest app platforms in the world.
Always be wary of clowns who say "they did hard work" to justify anything bad.
'Apple doesn't give own products an advantage'?? Bruh I can't download offline music on my Apple watch with Spotify. I am literally FORCED to use Apple music to do it
App Store's 30% commission have NOT change since the start of it. And in the past, Fortnite have been fine with it since the beginning. Then why all this fuss now? Apple isn't to blame; they totally did nothing to change it's policy.
you should've said where this 30% came from historically
They said at the beginning from Tim Cook that this commission has been unchanged since the first day of the app store. Sounds like they picked a number. But yes, for the purpose of arguing the disagreement about it being too high, it would be good to expound on the significance of that particular number.
When software were sold in physical stores, the developer only got 40%
@@Vedrajrm Some would argue that physical stores also have a lot more overhead.
@@Vedrajrm Yes and No, the Console / Distributors cut at the time was 30%. The other 30% you are referencing was what the Publishing company took for providing marketing. Apple originally got this 30% from the console / distributors. However, this was broken down as 10% for the distributor themselves, and %20 to pay the storage company for the warehouse space to store a stupid amount of cartridge's. This %20 is necessary anymore.
Why? So you can go ahead and pretend Apple is an angel because they decreased the industry fee at the time they introduced the App Store? That was over a decade ago. They reduced the fee AND prevented any other stores from competing with them. And THAT is the problem. What makes you think the fee couldn't be like 1% today if there were other stores available?
Austin Benson does not know what he's talking about. The Apple 'tax' DOES help to pay for 'roads' and 'government' and these are the tool and technologies Apple provide to develop your applications such as Swift, SwiftUI, Xcode, Instruments. These tools are provided FOR FREE and are updated constantly making it easier to use and develop better apps.
Imagine paying to your government 10% more tax rate but your government operational cost only increase like 3%. Same explanation goes with this Apple tax. So, for me, you opinion still doesn't justify enough.
Apple does not provide it's developer tools for free. You have to pay Apple $99 a year to access the things you just listed.
@@circletech7745 A whole $99??? wow
All of Androids tools are free and unlike Apple you don't have to pay one cent for them
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv So.. use them? Develop for Android.
It's like one day Epic Games decided to make cookies 🍪 to sell them to restaurants. The restaurants agreed to sell their cookies 🍪 but takes part of the money for every cookies 🍪 sold at their places, however they will give it the kitchenware and tools of their restaurants to make them while also taking care of the sale process.
This has never been a problem for any bakers 👩🍳 for 12 years, but there Epic Games is, after gathering enough money to build its own cookies factory 🏭 , it is suing the restaurants.
Honestly if you don't like how the fee works then just don't sell there, I also pay a fee when I sell my used stuff on Amazon then I also pay a fee when I sell used electronics in a store. Apple made 1 billion through Fortnite purchases ? Epic Games roughly made 4 then. Just do the door to door thing and sell it however you want, it’s not like you have a gun behind your head forcing you to keep making cookies for these restaurants that you now hate, it should be easier now with your brand new cookies factory; see how it goes.
30 % commission can break a Small company,
Either Company will Pay a 30% Charge Or the User will pay a 30% Charge for It.
@Ginshima 30% for what? Developers do the hard work by creating apps and take all the risk if their app is unsuccessful. Then it comes the store and seizes a big portion of the cake for very little work. Moreover Apple benefits again on top of that, by selling their iPhones; and this is possible because there are apps in the store.
@@ditto2452 Apple is more clear case of monopolistic tactics because they control everything: the phone, operative system and the store. Google owns Android and the Play Store but they produce very small fraction of Android phones out there.
@@derloopkat
Why do they want to use apple’s platform, a billion apple devices, security and handling, but pay nothing?
Do note that developers do not get the rest of 70%, we have to pay taxes with what we are getting. After taxes, we get around 50%.
I don't mind apple promoting its OWN service to users of its OWN product.
Imagine if the country you life in would force you to only use products made in that country. I mean you life in that country its their right to do what they want right?
Christian B. Apple doesn’t force you to
Christian B. Apple doesn’t force you to do anything. There’s android, if you don’t want to play by their rules. It’s as simple as that.
Christian B. Promoting and “forcing to use” are 2 very different terms. Get your head fixed man
@@ChrisBa303 promoting, NOT forcing. Guess you are just straight up apple haters, huh?
Really? A CTO doesn’t know where apple and google tax go to? I’d be worried
Pretty sure that you can avoid taxes when you reach 2T
yeah this guy uses non-sequiturs to backup his complaints, his opinions added no insight to the video
There's a mutuality here that doesn't get touched upon. Developers need Apple/Google, but they need us too. What is the iPhone without app developers? nothing. It's not like Apple doesn't get spillover benefits from all of the brillant iOS developers out there. In NO WORLD does Apple have claim to one-third of all revenue generated on the App Store. Furthermore-- if what that 30% is allegedly paying for is true- why is it that free apps pay nothing? Why should paid apps subsidize the costs Apple pays to review free apps too? In general in life, support the little guy, not the richest corporations on the planet.
Funny how people think a company taking fees for using their service by free choice is unfair unlike taxes where you literally are forced to pay them.
What free choice you either use them or you get out of business there is no free choice
And people are fine with the fees there just to high
I think 30% commission is fair for providing a platform with millions of users. After all for any business a market with demand is the most important thing, Apple and Google are providing the market and in return charging commission. Many businesses do that not just app store or play store.
It could be, but Apple doesn’t allow any other ways of getting software.
Why these developers think that a platform is free? They distribute free apps at no cost (100$ annual developer account is a joke).
So they need to pay apple something... what would be considered as fair? 25%? 20%? 5%?
The market needs to balance itself. There are 100 times more android devices out there that are free to have whatever store they want. But still people dont use them... there is a reason for that! They dont invest as much as apple in infrastructure and security.
WE DON"T THINK ITS FREEEEEE. STOP MAKING THAT STRAWMAN ARGUMENT. We are not arguing for $0.00. We think 30% is too much. that is it. Apple could very easily charge 5% as you brought up and make a significant amount of profit. The market can't balance itself naturally because APPLE and GOOGLE have chokeholds on their respective OSs, even in Google's case where they allow side loading of apps (the consumer has to turn on developer mode and click through 4 separate security and warning prompts in order to do so, making them very nervous and unlikely to do so, it is a very fine example of a firm barrier as apposed to Apple's outright ban which is a hard barrier). You can't develop another app store and get it onto apple devices in any way.
Companies complaining about 30% cut when RUclips takes literally 50% of ad revenue from content creators and like 70% from donations. lol
The fact is store fee is way lower compared to transitional physical software distribution.
I think charge 15% for big companies such as Netflix and Spotify acceptable.
However they should consider to reduce fee for smaller businesses and small start up.
Yes. Many small businesses and start-ups broke up two years later because of Covid-19.
I really dont get the problem here. Its like going to Walmart and paying 3%-30% for walmart to make money. If its a problem for apple and google, then it should be for microsoft, steam, youtube, twitch, walmart, target, heb, kmart and all the other market places. They still have to pay for the buildings and servers that host your app, plus the employees that run those servers.
Epic is gonna cause massive problems.
they make billions in revenue each year from the cut alone. do you know any buildings and servers or wages that cost billions a year?
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell, 1984
you heard of the term "useful idiot"
Truth is a myth!
More random comments this channel.
@@Nicolas-uu3jr Mask wearers, pro-vaxxers, climate change enthusiasts, feminists, islamophiles are some of the real world manifestations of 'useful idiots'.
How they justify the 30% from IN-GAME purchases? 30% from the actual game/application purchase is quite high for a digital product but that in-game cut is just outrageous. They do have a huge audience for games and apps in their store but for exchange you cant expect to have a fair in-store treatment. Cheating in unique download times and scores is wild.
Apple doesn't make money from ads. This is one of their only ways to stay alive as a company.
I'm so amazed at the steady growth of TSLA stocks, many years ago I bought 2000 shares at the rate of $96. so interesting I would be selling now at $431. I just missed out on a period I was suppose to sell at $498, all because I waiting on $520 mark and ignoring financial advise. He as well advised me to buy when there was a global market crash.
Do you pick your stocks manually?
wow, quite a large investment you got there on TSLA stocks man. i wish I bought some shares at the pick of the crash.
I added NIO and WKHS. so far so good what are your thoughts on ENPH.? I bought them on a hunch years back, thinking energy storage is the key. it's been up up up.
That $431 is after the stock split, that's basically $1724 as the stock split divided the price by 4 but in turn multiplied your holdings by 4 so you have 8000 shares of TESLA at $431
@@r.r.2525
I'm loving the growth in NIO lately. WKHS could do same. I learning towards adding some more shares. you have to love the 400% gain in ENPH over the last year. The chart looks stable and their technology is the future. it looks good for me so far.
Why not create tiered differential price that depends on the developer business revenues like in tax. Large company developer should pay more than a small developer just starting out
That's a good idea! I wonder why no one is talking about that XD
yea but without the iphone and the App Store there wouldn't be a Spotify, Fortnite or Tinder to begin with. These companies come off as the greedy ones
Uh no they would exist without them fortnite tinder as well as Spotify would still be okay without apple
It’s weird if you think about it. Fortnite and other apps don’t want to pay the fee to get more money and apple has to fee to make money, basically it’s about company’s wanting more money.
Why are they cherry picking Apple ... Amazon, Google play, Uber, Lyft, Ebay all of these companies charge their sellers even more ... 🤷♂️ ...
Finally a human with a brain 🧠
because Google Play actually allows you to avoid the 30% tax as it doesn't stop app developers from linking their websites inside the app. for example Spotify can link their website inside the app so it redirects users to the site so companies can avoid the 30% tax, while apple doesn't let you do that.
The effects of having a duopoly are slowly starting to surface
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@@kthog3348 insulon was not invented
It isn't a duopoly
Epic is free of creating their own fortnite phone or Epic OS, it just isn't worth it
Orcahhh In other words, Apple and Google have control over the market. Which in other words, means they have a duopoly.
I knew when that fortnite video dropped that the heat was on lol
Yep, it’s on
Epic games is so dvmb. Apple is clearly right, it’s their app store they have the right to make money
@@Solid_Snake99 I think Epic is just trying to ask Apple to decrease the cut they take, not remove it entirely.
@@hudsonhintze You think. They actually asked to remove it.
App companies: *Doesn't follow the rules of the app store*
Also app companies: See? Apple is the bad guy here! Not us!
Exactly
Except apple has many times not followed its own policies. Safari has PWA support on ios but chrome still doesn't have it because of iOS strict policies, which don't apply to apple. They have a very anti competitive business
I bought a 10,000 Square foot property through the App store, now Apple is asking me to part with 3,000 Square foot for an Apple store.
I understand the apps were developed by developers, but they used apples tools to develop them. Xcode, swift and metal don't cost cheap, and all security and bugs for the app are all done by Apple. this is just how the industry works. its basically the same as buying groceries. the supermarket takes a certain money and pays the rest of to the suppliers. the video shown is just for attention, even if its Wall Street journal, they still focus on profit by views, and won't tell the complete story
@@jq9742 no one will b ready to pay 30% fr those Trillion dollar companies just cause they host our App...There is no end fr greed
Vinyas Bhat I hope you don’t actually think Epic filed a lawsuit against Apple and google for the 30% :/
Lol
Many people don't realise that most developers who are trying to earn are small.
As much as fortnight may not be doing this out of concern for the smaller guys, a reduction for a unreasonable tax could convince you to buy an app at a cheaper price while making it easier for the smaller guys to thrive
It wouldn't. People spend money any way they please and they don't think of the small guy. They think of the immediate value they get for their money. Sure in their hearts they'd love to support the small guy but that's only after they take care of themselves. It's not selfish, just smart and common sense. I would support the small guy if I liked the product and found it useful. If the product sucked, I would just give my money because "the small guy". No one in their right mind would.
If they want to get users from apple or android devices then they have to pay a premium. They are the ones bringing the users to them. If they don't like it then they can go and find users on other devices!
No, These apps are what are providing user value to Apple and making the Iphone an attractive purchasing option. If these apps disappeared over night, people would not buy Iphones.
@Nahid Islam Exactly! so Apple should feel just fine charging more than Google. But that isn't a good argument for 30%. Back when the App Store launched, just getting your app on the store guaranteed you sales. You didn't have to market or really do anything besides putting it up, which was a strong argument for 30%. That isn't the case today, on top of that 30% to apple, App developers have to spend substantial amounts of money to market that their app is available on the app store. Apps are more and more connected experiences, rather than completely existing on the device, so developers more and more have to purchase & maintain servers, and innovate their own service. The value of the app store to developers has gone down, while their costs have increased. that is a strong argument that 30% is just too high. No reasonable developer is arguing for $0.00. We aren't arguing for free, we are arguing for a fairer price. Considering their are only two viable app stores in the US, it seems reasonable to expect those stores to be fair in their fees. Anti-competitive laws actually cover this exact situation too, which is why I am frankly astounded that Apple got away with it for so long.
@@trapfethen Well, there were multiple OS and App Stores in the market, Symbian, Windows, Blackberry etc... and Developers rejected those platforms and essentially killed them off by not creating apps. Windows Phone specifically died because of no app support.... Developers essentially brought this on themselves by being shortsighted and greedy. Strategic investment in one or more of those platforms would've seen the situation go their way...
What other devices are there on the smartphone market? Apple and Google are a duopoly. Apple especially has a monopoly on their devices because they don't allow third-party app stores or installing apps from the browser on iOS unless you jailbreak. That is very anti-competitive. Though Google is no hero, they at least allow installations from unknown sources. F-Droid and APKPure are great app stores.
That's why Huawei's HarmonyOS should be given more support. A monopoly is too bad for us consumers.
Apple simply doesn’t want anything to compete. Apps aren’t okay with that.
What's stopping platforms like Spotify, Twitch, AirBnB, and others from asking for a higher 50% commission from creators? Why can't creators just go around platforms like Epic did with Apple and Google?
You realize twitch already takes 50%
let's look at it from this perspective, if you want to sell on amazon you need to pay a fee to the distributor (amazon) to keep your product in their warehouse that amazon pays to maintain and develop. The App Store is a distributor being on the App Store has its privileges. It means you as a developer are verified and safe to distribute apps with no security issues. Apple created the App Store and maintains the App Store. This is how they've always operated they try to be self sufficient do everything their way, if they have control over every aspect of the company they have quality control as well (which is why the end result of paying apple for a screen replacement is better quality than 3rd party). Other companies come (ie. epic games) and try to enter with no problem and don't want to pay a fee. to sum it all up apple is distributing apps and taking a cut epic games expect their app to distributed for free on a platform that that they didn't invent or own. the cut would cover these costs
Yeah i hope that never happens tensent owns 30 percent of epic games those mofos have a monopoly In gaming and there appstore on pc is trash 🗑️ don't want that on iphones
So do small business owners need the money so they can higher more developers for their app that probably won’t be used or should Apple have the money and be able to use it do develop better products that everyone will use?
This is so stupid 😂, If I opened a store and started selling products on your land won’t you want to have a good commission? I would, if you don’t like it then go away. Btw I’m a developer as well
Apple doesn't provide land free of cost they will charge you for that. Its look like someone gives you shop on rent and ask for stack in your profit.
Well Apple doesn't let you install apps from other placeses other than their store
So using your logic it would be like this
Apple is the land lord and the owner of the entire state so you can not go away to another store or build your own building because they won't let you do that
At leas with androids you can install thirdparty apps or stores with apple you can't
Completely agree! It’s their platform, they’ve built it, they set the rules. You don’t like them? Don’t develop apps for App Store. It’s that simple.
@@DJ-yh8hm Well that's monopoly, which never ends well for the consumers.
@@VibezVideo I know and that part is not fair but it’s their OS and it’s their choice on what to do and what not to do
As a developer, 30% commission just to be available on the app store is just too steep. I totally disagree with apple and Google on those terms as they themselves know how time-consuming and difficult it is to create something that matters and be relevant. Example - Apple map, so many failed Google projects (tango)
You sell stuff at my store, you gotta pay me
Great 😊
That's not the point. They can charge whatever they want in their store, but they can't prevent other stores from existing (and that's what they do). PS: Just waiting for the next Apple sheep to reply saying "it's their ecosystem and they can block whoever they want".
it is their own companies they will keep what ever rules they want, if u like use it if u dont leave it
Apple's trust-like practices go far beyond the AppStore. I'm gonna add the fact that you need an apple computer or software to build your products. Even if you use frameworks like React Native, Flutter or Xamarin, you still need to get a mini-mac or virtual mac to build your app.
I think deal is fear. They provide the platform and the customers.
I don't think people remember paying hundreds of money to Game Retails, which have a 50% cut.
Fallacy of relative privation
Now I'm sad about Window phone...
It was genuinely good
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having android is like going to an ancient library u cant find ur picture because of soo many folders
6:04 shouldn’t the input result be called answer instead of question on the programming? I do not think question is a yes or no but answer is.
Hduf Lolly it is my profession.😁😊
Nobody is forcing you to make the app for Android or Apple. You chose to, when there was the windows and Nokia phone. You chose the monopoly game
Epic should make their own device.📱🎮.Problem solved! Otherwise, follow the rule everyone else does.😛
Their argument is that the rules themselves as currently implemented are anti-competitive and therefore no one should be subject to them as written. Imagine is the big steel companies had gotten away with that argument back in the gilded era? "If you don't like the amount we charge to transport your products on our trains, of which we are the only one for hundreds of miles, then just build your own train!"
Those 30% extra fee will be charged to the consumer, all the subscription service price will go up,
and those already starving Spotify artists, Airbnb home owner, and all people who make money from the app must pay an extra 30% for nothing.
if you still can't relate, here
what if you are forced to pay 50% for tax and at the end of the day you have to pay an extra 30% again?
do you still think what apple do is make sense?
Epic tried to partner with OnePlus but Google interfered. Also Apple made with Amazon prime which for them applies 15% and others 30% , what about double standard ?
So you think facebook, netflix, spotify should make their own app store too?
@@shido8597 they should if they don’t want to pay the fee
Apple is all good. All platform companies take a cut for developers to use it. Sony, Microsoft, all of them. They need to make money too. No problem. Everyone gets a piece.
They make money but its way to much they make to much money while having a monopoly
If Facebook is in the list then Apple is right!! 😛
Facebook has a record for opposing all privacy enhancements made to mobile operating systems!
99.5% of facebook's revenue comes from hosting advertisements. The video is about Apple taking a fee of in app purchases. Those are different things.
MStar Apple needs that fee to keep apps like Facebook in check. That’s how they invest in tools to find security vulnerabilities in apps such as TikTok. Hence I have to disagree with you on that.
You forgot to mention one REALLY IMPORTANT point. It is not possible to install app on an IPhone without using app store and it is made complicated on android so they do have a total monopoly in the case of Apple and almost total monopoly in the case of Google.
PlayStation,Xbox,apple,android,steam,Walmart,target,bestbuy take 30% it’s standard
Not allowing games and apps their own customers and taking 30% from IN-GAME purchases is just wrong. I don't care if that is also the issue with the rest, it shouldn't be the case. They don't have any claim to that revenue.
30% in itself is an advantage over other apps apple has. Also siri integration and many more are pretty bare bones for third party apps. I cannot get extensions on firefox but I can do so with safari which is crazy.
As a small developer, the 30% does hurt so much. Sometimes, i hope they reduce it to atleast 20% for a small developer
@ⴼⵓⵛⴽ ⴽⴰⵔⴻⵏⵙ Isn't that in the second year? Or is that now in the first year?
As a QCOM shareholder who was sued by Apple because they thought 5% of the selling cost of the phone was too much, this is just great. I can't wait for all of this to unfold. QCOM invented CDMA technology and pioneered every major wireless technical advance, including 5G and will change how our world operates, investing billions of dollars of R&D. Apple's 30% tax is to continue to use their platform which hasn't changed in practice since 2008. Tim Crook will see his day, the 30% tax is going to get cut severely. Watch out Apple shareholders!
their platform, their rules.
@Bo Bob yes
No
Tim Cook is one of the most amoral CEOs
*Feels hard when you cant afford apple devices.*
@@kimjong-un464 Well I do a few apple products.
Horrible move by company size of 2T$ in the middle of antitrust filings.
Personally think is the payments are below some price it’s only %15
There are cost for security, design, support, bug fix, etc. I personally find it justifiable
No, the 30% goes to Apple.
Those costs are fixed 30% is variable
Yeah 30% to Apple. The Ecosystem they provide is worthwhile. Think about them having to fight in court for keeping the encryption alive, developing the products that people are happy to spend money on, keeping a check on the apps in store that well suck up our data. Remember the Clipboard scandal??
Karthik Mathew Varghese The same way you justify 30% you can justify 50% or higher since the costs of security, bugs etc is nowhere near 30%. Then there’s the problem of that cut also being a monopoly and ouperforming other companies like Spotify that have to charge 30% more
All companies look at their bottom line. Including developers. 30% has been the industry standard since origin, it’s nothing new. At end of the day consumer is King. In India, Apple holds insignificant market share and Google itself has been struggling to sell pixel. There is stiff competition here from other brands. The question is at the end of the day what does the consumer want? In US, iMessage is the dominant messaging application and people want it. In India WhatsApp is but people are jumping to Telegram cause people want it, irrespective of operating system, and competition for both of them are coming up in the form of KaiOS little by little here. The question should be why did people opt for Apple there and Android here? Why are developers not developing in other platform? Why people are not ready to give up their iPhone? And how did WhatsApp survive GTalk, Allo, Duo, Hangout when all these are free and both are industry titans?
if these big developers are already aching how much more are the start ups
Apple created app store. If you don’t like it go away and move on. They provide security, updates, assessments, and software tools for apps to run. Apple’s make the whole smartphone experience a safe and better place. Epic is just greedy and wants more of the cut. They should just create their own gaming console.
These developers want Apple's extremely lucrative customers but don't think Apple should make anything for creating and maintaining the ecosystem that allows their apps to exist... *plays tiny violin*
They can make money and not make them pay downright scammy fees
Wait so these guys want apple and google to run their App stores(a service) for free ??
tawonga munyanduri yup. My opinion is the App Store belongs to Apple. That means Apple sets the rules and you follow or leave. Same with google and the play store. With out the two app stores no one has any place to market their app. 30% is the industry standard even on gaming consoles.
@@tylerwest2449 Oh look a iDrone who has no idea how Android works. Look dude developers on Android don't need to use Google Play there are other App Stores available and something called side loading. You cant do this on iOS unless you jailbreak, see the difference? There is COMPETITION in the app distribution space on Android while iOS has NONE
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv It got banned from the Play Store for the same reason.
Apple and Google are proving app developers with an ecosystem that directly connects developers to multiple potential users. Additionally, both companies provide their own development tools for creating apps on their individual app stores. Hence its quite a reasonable ask from both companies to ask for 30% in the first year and then 15% in the next for maintaining these services and constantly upgrading them to meet the needs and wants of future app developers. Seems quite reasonable to me. If developers feel that this is an unfair practice then perhaps they should spend millions of $ into developing an ecosystem that can compete against Android or iOS, and if they are true to their values then they should provide for constant updates and improvements in their respected ecosystem for free without charging any commission.
They can make their own platform then.
Nobody talks about why this cannot be a fix fee and not 30%. Apple argues it needs to develop tools and security checks for the apps. It sounds like this has a fix fee and is independent how much money the actual app makes. Why nobody talks about a fix fee solution as more logical for everyone?
After this the windows phone might succeed
Or a Linux phone I meant Android
except most americans don't want anything other than apple
nahx windows brought down nokia haha...
@@haljordan1575 I am an American and I use Android OS.
@@VibezVideo I know that I am proving to him that android users still exist in the American consumer sphere.
company's should start having different prices on website and app.SO in near future it will be intutive that any service will be cheaper on web(reverse is seen in some cases now).Quora ,Reddit,linkedin amazon and many others should stop pushing users to download their app.