Great job reducing the significance of Christ and His work on the cross. Sin does not hinder a Christian’s relationship/fellowship with God, except that which we allow, but it is not coming from Him.
@@gracealone89 Thank you for responding. There is more discussion than can take place here. However, I pray these verses will help clarify and bring you to a new understanding as you study them. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
@@danhill5428 I understand from a positional standpoint that our sin can’t condemn us eternally. But sin CAN affect our fellowship with God temporally speaking here on earth.
@@gracealone89 I know this is what "everyone" believes. The verses they tend to quote to support it doesn't line up to me. If you want to share a couple, I'll check them out.
@@danhill5428 1 John 1:5-10 NKJV This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. [6] If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. [7] But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Walking in the light means to walk in the Spirit of God. The remedy for personal sin, confession we see in 1 John 1:9. Grieve not, quench not the Holy Spirit. Sin breaks the fellowship (filling) of the Holy Spirit. Lewis S. chafer, Systematic Theology… the Christian should keep close accounts with God, confess always in prayer.
In 1John, 2 verses beginning with 8, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 10 "If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." To become a Believer do you not have to acknowledge that Jesus died for our sins? Then what true Believer would claim they are without sin and that they have not sinned? Clearly John is not talking to Believers but to false teachers that claim there is no sin committed by them! In, 1John 9, John must be telling them that indeed there is sin and since they haven't yet confessed theirs that “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”
So we don't have to confess when we commit sins? I think it's extremely tiring and a burden I cannot bear. How on earth are we expected to remember all these sins when a bad thought is even sin
@@reganoryan2292 confession should not be a burden, it should help you strenghten your relationship with God. Take sin seriously and be more fruitful.
This is not at all about God JUDGING us for our sins as Christians. God cannot ever Judge you like an unsaved person once you've truly trusted Christ and received His imputed righteousness. However, at the same time, God becomes your heavenly Father and he treats us now as His redeemed children born again by faith in Christ. If His children sin they MUST confess their sins or God will break His fellowship with them and He further says in Hebrews 12 that He will chasten us because of our sins. This is taught throughout scripture. It is NOT isolated to First John 1 and 2. This is about FELLOWSHIP, not about our RELATIONSHIP as God's child which can never be lost.
We confess that we are sinners and Jesus paid for our sin and God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit..it isn't sin that leads us to destruction, our sin is paid for. Its not having the eternal life of the Holy Spirit that causes destruction.
It is not talking about positional or relational, he was talking about the Gnostics of his day that claimed they did not sin, the believer has confessed he is a sinner in need of a Savior and has been cleansed from ALL unrighteousness. We are saved and born again in the spirit at the same time as it says in Titus 3:5, and we are crucified with Christ and have died to sin, and we are raised with him to newness of life. You are saying the blood of Christ is not even as powerful as the animal sacrifices the Jews made and covered their sin for a year, the blood of Jesus takes away the sins of the world. We are to confess who we are in him, not sin, Romans 4:8 blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 1 John 1:9 is not a washcloth for the believer, it does not say our fellowship is in need of being restored, you added that not understanding what he has said.
If you backslid too far and dabbled into the occult , can you repent???? Or have that person lost salvation forever???? If someone turned their back on God can they repent????
Ofc man! God desires for us to run to him not from him, to repent would be to acknowledge your wrong doing but remember salvation is by grace through faith in Christ! 👍🏽
false. The issue of 1 John 1 mainly was not adressed to christian but gnostic among christian . Important context here. 1- The gnostic didn't believe that Jesus was God .John tried to convince them tiil the end of this letter .2- The gnostic believe that they can arrived at a high standard of moralty by themself enough to be at the same elevation as Jesus . Therefore they can find and declare themself that they are none- sinners ,living with no sins. That is the reason why John wrote if someone said he's not a sinner he's a liar .But If someone "confess" , meaning agree with God (greek), that he is a sinner therefore the blood of Christ erase once for all his sin. Asking pardon at each sin is a law in old testament not in the new
What a burden this perspective is! If you are restored through Christ then you are restored.. No conditions. Also, who can remember all their sins! Ridiculous
First John chapter 1 is all about fellowship with the Father and with the Son. If you commit sin you also "grieve the Holy Spirit" and your fellowship is broken until you confess it which literally means you're saying the same thing about your sin or sins that God says about them. This could be anything from using bad language, getting angry with someone, and numerous other things such as lust. The Bible is clear as it can be that all believers sin to some extent. There is no such thing as a state you can get to where you no longer sin at all. If you are living in such a way that your conscience never condemns you for things you should know are wrong you are in a VERY BAD place spiritually. I can tell you this without even knowing anything else about you. You have no joy as a Christian and God is not hearing and answering your prayers. I know this because First John and several other passages teach that very thing is as plain as the nose on your face. God does not answer the prayers of disobedient children and He also removes the sense of His presence in your life as well as any joy as a Christian. He may take even stronger measures and send more severe chastisement. (See Hebrews 12) Chastisement is ONLY for REAL children of God btw. I will only add this. It is possible for a believer to commit some sins and really not know they sinned. This is normal and virtually every believer who ever lived has done this I'm quite certain. King David said in the Psalms "Cleanse thou me from secret faults." This is cleansing from things he was not even aware of that were sins. The Law speaks of "sins of ignorance" which the people of Israel committed and yet they did need forgiveness and cleansing for these sins. I am aware that some people are saying that it's not necessary to ever confess and forsake sins because the blood of Christ has already atoned for them, but this is a serious error. Even though our salvation is secure in Christ because of His atonement that only takes care of our daily cleansing from the defilement of sins when we confess our sins and trust God to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is only a "burden" as you said IF you're living in deliberate KNOWN sins and refuse to do anything about it. God cannot and will not bless you if that is true of you. What is truly ridiculous is to say you can sin all you want and remain in fellowship with God and have His blessings and joy. You should know better than that unless you're a fairly new Christian.
@@F2Bshaz You are talking about a different subject. Being out of fellowship doesn't mean you have lost your salvation. I believe salvation is forever and can't be lost. If you knowingly sin your fellowship with God is broken instantly. Confessing sin is taught throughout the Bible. First John does mean confessing sin to be restored to fellowship with God. It has nothing to do with salvation which cannot ever be lost.
@@F2Bshaz I don't believe in turning from all your sins to be saved and I believe in the eternal security of all believers. Once saved always saved is the truth.
@@arcguardian If you understand that once you are born again into God's family as His child your salvation is secure. However, now God acts towards you as your FATHER, not your JUDGE. God has no relationship with a person UNTIL they are born again into His family. You do still sin and when you do your FELLOWSHIP with your Father is broken, not your eternal relationship as a child of God. It is no different really than sinning against an earthly father. Is your relationship to your earthly father changed if you have a falling out with him? NO because that relationship is eternal. You never get another biological father. If you sin against that father though it may remain broken in fellowship until you say, "I did something wrong to you Dad. I'm very sorry and I ask for your forgiveness. This goes on all the time. If you commit sins as a believer they must be forgiven and CLEANSED or your fellowship with the Father cannot be restored. It is NOT automatic and there ARE consequences if you fail to do it or worse, REFUSE out of pride or stubbornness to seek His forgiveness and cleansing.
Future sins are not forgiven in advance. You have to repent of your sins as you go, and ask forgiveness, and the father is faithful to forgive you, and the blood of his son cleanses you of all unrighteousness... If you sin and not repent and not ask forgiveness, then, your garment can become defiled, has in Rev 3:4.
@@EugeneHolley-rc6ry God has foreknowledge, don't you know that? God knows all the days of my life. He can send help to alter this calendar. Accidental sins, just before dying probably don't alter the final destination... Guess who's mediating in the heavenly tabernacle for you and for me. Your scenario is far from invalidating what I am saying about your future sins... And if you reread Rev 2 and Rev 3, you'll see that the Lord very often GRANTS TIME to repent...
@@notremarchedelafin And if you read the scriptures, you will see that when we are saved, we are forgiven of all of our sins past present and future because he died once for sin. If he did not already pay for future sins, then you and I could not be saved because we live two thousand years after his death, or in other words in the future. You could be in the middle of sinning when you die, do you stop and confess then, scripture does not say we are saved through confession of sin, we are saved by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. We are not saved by our performance, but by the performance of our Savior Jesus Christ. Romans 6:23 the payment for sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, not confession.
@@EugeneHolley-rc6ry Jesus's death is a PROPITIATION for all of your sins... That propitiation is the only one... Jesus still act as a HIGH PRIEST for you, in the tabernacle, for your NEW SINS... When you ask for forgiveness, HIS BLOOD cleanses (PRESENT TENSE) you of all unrighteousness... It is not because you bring a verse that you can interpret in a way that supports your doctrine, that you do not have to reconcile the rest of scriptures... Read this please: Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAAAAASSSST through the forbearance of God; Now, I think it would be good if you would reconsider your view on what the sacrifice of Jesus achieves and does not achieve. You have a walk to walk. If you sin, if you ask for forgiveness, God is faithful to forgive you... I you pursue sin, Jesus (the HS) will warn you, instruct you, show you the proper path, might chastize you, give you time to repent... In that time, YOUR GARMENT MIGHT BE DEFILED... You need to adopt a more objective stance, and stop defending a very narrow view of the New Testament, which does not allow you to understand easily Hebrews 6, 10, Rev 2, Rev 3, James 5, 1 Cor 10, what it means to live while being dead... Your automatic default to all those passage is philosiphical... It's a rejection of what the verses say, for the sake of a few verses that you see in an incorrect way... An example of this is BITTERNESS... it can DEFILE YOU if you REMAIN IN IT... (Hebrews 12:15). Jesus said if you do not forgive others, you will not be forgiven.. Matt 6:12-15. do you believe Jesus when He says that?
@@EugeneHolley-rc6ry Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAAAAAASSSSSSSTTTT, through the forbearance of God;
Great job reducing the significance of Christ and His work on the cross.
Sin does not hinder a Christian’s relationship/fellowship with God, except that which we allow, but it is not coming from Him.
That’s a ridiculous statement. You’re saying God doesn’t care if his children sin? That’s blasphemy.
@@gracealone89
Thank you for responding. There is more discussion than can take place here. However, I pray these verses will help clarify and bring you to a new understanding as you study them.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.
Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
@@danhill5428 I understand from a positional standpoint that our sin can’t condemn us eternally. But sin CAN affect our fellowship with God temporally speaking here on earth.
@@gracealone89 I know this is what "everyone" believes. The verses they tend to quote to support it doesn't line up to me. If you want to share a couple, I'll check them out.
@@danhill5428
1 John 1:5-10 NKJV
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. [6] If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. [7] But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Walking in the light means to walk in the Spirit of God. The remedy for personal sin, confession we see in 1 John 1:9. Grieve not, quench not the Holy Spirit. Sin breaks the fellowship (filling) of the Holy Spirit. Lewis S. chafer, Systematic Theology… the Christian should keep close accounts with God, confess always in prayer.
In 1John, 2 verses beginning with 8, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 10 "If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."
To become a Believer do you not have to acknowledge that Jesus died for our sins? Then what true Believer would claim they are without sin and that they have not sinned? Clearly John is not talking to Believers but to false teachers that claim there is no sin committed by them!
In, 1John 9, John must be telling them that indeed there is sin and since they haven't yet confessed theirs that “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”
Absolutely correct
So we don't have to confess when we commit sins? I think it's extremely tiring and a burden I cannot bear. How on earth are we expected to remember all these sins when a bad thought is even sin
spot on
@@reganoryan2292 confession should not be a burden, it should help you strenghten your relationship with God. Take sin seriously and be more fruitful.
@@lewisthelibrarian Yeah
Confession is an act of faith. By acknowledging our sin we reaffirm we fall short, and we are forgiven by His Grace.
You could not have made it more clear. Thank you & God Bless! 🙏🙂
We will not juged our sins because Jesus died for our sins
This is not at all about God JUDGING us for our sins as Christians. God cannot ever Judge you like an unsaved person once you've truly trusted Christ and received His imputed righteousness. However, at the same time, God becomes your heavenly Father and he treats us now as His redeemed children born again by faith in Christ. If His children sin they MUST confess their sins or God will break His fellowship with them and He further says in Hebrews 12 that He will chasten us because of our sins. This is taught throughout scripture. It is NOT isolated to First John 1 and 2. This is about FELLOWSHIP, not about our RELATIONSHIP as God's child which can never be lost.
We confess that we are sinners and Jesus paid for our sin and God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit..it isn't sin that leads us to destruction, our sin is paid for. Its not having the eternal life of the Holy Spirit that causes destruction.
It is not talking about positional or relational, he was talking about the Gnostics of his day that claimed they did not sin, the believer has confessed he is a sinner in need of a Savior and has been cleansed from ALL unrighteousness. We are saved and born again in the spirit at the same time as it says in Titus 3:5, and we are crucified with Christ and have died to sin, and we are raised with him to newness of life. You are saying the blood of Christ is not even as powerful as the animal sacrifices the Jews made and covered their sin for a year, the blood of Jesus takes away the sins of the world. We are to confess who we are in him, not sin, Romans 4:8 blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 1 John 1:9 is not a washcloth for the believer, it does not say our fellowship is in need of being restored, you added that not understanding what he has said.
This is absolutely correct
If you backslid too far and dabbled into the occult , can you repent???? Or have that person lost salvation forever???? If someone turned their back on God can they repent????
Ofc man! God desires for us to run to him not from him, to repent would be to acknowledge your wrong doing but remember salvation is by grace through faith in Christ! 👍🏽
false. The issue of 1 John 1 mainly was not adressed to christian but gnostic among christian . Important context here. 1- The gnostic didn't believe that Jesus was God .John tried to convince them tiil the end of this letter .2- The gnostic believe that they can arrived at a high standard of moralty by themself enough to be at the same elevation as Jesus . Therefore they can find and declare themself that they are none- sinners ,living with no sins. That is the reason why John wrote if someone said he's not a sinner he's a liar .But If someone "confess" , meaning agree with God (greek), that he is a sinner therefore the blood of Christ erase once for all his sin. Asking pardon at each sin is a law in old testament not in the new
What a burden this perspective is! If you are restored through Christ then you are restored.. No conditions. Also, who can remember all their sins! Ridiculous
First John chapter 1 is all about fellowship with the Father and with the Son. If you commit sin you also "grieve the Holy Spirit" and your fellowship is broken until you confess it which literally means you're saying the same thing about your sin or sins that God says about them. This could be anything from using bad language, getting angry with someone, and numerous other things such as lust. The Bible is clear as it can be that all believers sin to some extent. There is no such thing as a state you can get to where you no longer sin at all. If you are living in such a way that your conscience never condemns you for things you should know are wrong you are in a VERY BAD place spiritually. I can tell you this without even knowing anything else about you. You have no joy as a Christian and God is not hearing and answering your prayers. I know this because First John and several other passages teach that very thing is as plain as the nose on your face. God does not answer the prayers of disobedient children and He also removes the sense of His presence in your life as well as any joy as a Christian. He may take even stronger measures and send more severe chastisement. (See Hebrews 12) Chastisement is ONLY for REAL children of God btw.
I will only add this. It is possible for a believer to commit some sins and really not know they sinned. This is normal and virtually every believer who ever lived has done this I'm quite certain. King David said in the Psalms "Cleanse thou me from secret faults." This is cleansing from things he was not even aware of that were sins. The Law speaks of "sins of ignorance" which the people of Israel committed and yet they did need forgiveness and cleansing for these sins. I am aware that some people are saying that it's not necessary to ever confess and forsake sins because the blood of Christ has already atoned for them, but this is a serious error. Even though our salvation is secure in Christ because of His atonement that only takes care of our daily cleansing from the defilement of sins when we confess our sins and trust God to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is only a "burden" as you said IF you're living in deliberate KNOWN sins and refuse to do anything about it. God cannot and will not bless you if that is true of you. What is truly ridiculous is to say you can sin all you want and remain in fellowship with God and have His blessings and joy. You should know better than that unless you're a fairly new Christian.
@@randyd9805lol we are sealed. Holy Spirit isn't popping in and out of us every time we sin and unsin.
@@F2Bshaz You are talking about a different subject. Being out of fellowship doesn't mean you have lost your salvation. I believe salvation is forever and can't be lost. If you knowingly sin your fellowship with God is broken instantly. Confessing sin is taught throughout the Bible. First John does mean confessing sin to be restored to fellowship with God. It has nothing to do with salvation which cannot ever be lost.
@@F2Bshaz I don't believe in turning from all your sins to be saved and I believe in the eternal security of all believers. Once saved always saved is the truth.
@@arcguardian If you understand that once you are born again into God's family as His child your salvation is secure. However, now God acts towards you as your FATHER, not your JUDGE. God has no relationship with a person UNTIL they are born again into His family. You do still sin and when you do your FELLOWSHIP with your Father is broken, not your eternal relationship as a child of God. It is no different really than sinning against an earthly father. Is your relationship to your earthly father changed if you have a falling out with him? NO because that relationship is eternal. You never get another biological father. If you sin against that father though it may remain broken in fellowship until you say, "I did something wrong to you Dad. I'm very sorry and I ask for your forgiveness. This goes on all the time. If you commit sins as a believer they must be forgiven and CLEANSED or your fellowship with the Father cannot be restored. It is NOT automatic and there ARE consequences if you fail to do it or worse, REFUSE out of pride or stubbornness to seek His forgiveness and cleansing.
Is this an orthodox Christian perspective
Future sins are not forgiven in advance. You have to repent of your sins as you go, and ask forgiveness, and the father is faithful to forgive you, and the blood of his son cleanses you of all unrighteousness... If you sin and not repent and not ask forgiveness, then, your garment can become defiled, has in Rev 3:4.
So, what will you do if you sin and then are killed in an accident before you confess?
@@EugeneHolley-rc6ry God has foreknowledge, don't you know that?
God knows all the days of my life. He can send help to alter this calendar.
Accidental sins, just before dying probably don't alter the final destination... Guess who's mediating in the heavenly tabernacle for you and for me.
Your scenario is far from invalidating what I am saying about your future sins... And if you reread Rev 2 and Rev 3, you'll see that the Lord very often GRANTS TIME to repent...
@@notremarchedelafin And if you read the scriptures, you will see that when we are saved, we are forgiven of all of our sins past present and future because he died once for sin. If he did not already pay for future sins, then you and I could not be saved because we live two thousand years after his death, or in other words in the future. You could be in the middle of sinning when you die, do you stop and confess then, scripture does not say we are saved through confession of sin, we are saved by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. We are not saved by our performance, but by the performance of our Savior Jesus Christ. Romans 6:23 the payment for sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, not confession.
@@EugeneHolley-rc6ry Jesus's death is a PROPITIATION for all of your sins... That propitiation is the only one... Jesus still act as a HIGH PRIEST for you, in the tabernacle, for your NEW SINS... When you ask for forgiveness, HIS BLOOD cleanses (PRESENT TENSE) you of all unrighteousness...
It is not because you bring a verse that you can interpret in a way that supports your doctrine, that you do not have to reconcile the rest of scriptures... Read this please:
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAAAAASSSST through the forbearance of God;
Now, I think it would be good if you would reconsider your view on what the sacrifice of Jesus achieves and does not achieve.
You have a walk to walk. If you sin, if you ask for forgiveness, God is faithful to forgive you... I you pursue sin, Jesus (the HS) will warn you, instruct you, show you the proper path, might chastize you, give you time to repent... In that time, YOUR GARMENT MIGHT BE DEFILED...
You need to adopt a more objective stance, and stop defending a very narrow view of the New Testament, which does not allow you to understand easily Hebrews 6, 10, Rev 2, Rev 3, James 5, 1 Cor 10, what it means to live while being dead... Your automatic default to all those passage is philosiphical... It's a rejection of what the verses say, for the sake of a few verses that you see in an incorrect way...
An example of this is BITTERNESS... it can DEFILE YOU if you REMAIN IN IT... (Hebrews 12:15).
Jesus said if you do not forgive others, you will not be forgiven.. Matt 6:12-15.
do you believe Jesus when He says that?
@@EugeneHolley-rc6ry Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAAAAAASSSSSSSTTTT, through the forbearance of God;
💙❤️💛💚🩵🧡💜
🖤
Balderdash.
Either:
Jesus' blood paid it ALL
or
He died for nothing.