A $90 "Industrial" Cat8 Ethernet Cable - It's Actually Worth It?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Ok so I'm the one calling it industrial but still 🤔
• The cable on Amazon ⇨ geni.us/cat8-2meter-22awg (Affiliate)
▼ Time Stamps: ▼
0:00 - Intro
0:37 - My Problem
1:41 - Update From Future Me
2:51 - Ethernet Twisted Pairs Explained
4:15 - Split Pair Explained
5:32 - Cell Tower Interference
6:39 - Why Cat8
7:24 - The Cable I Found
9:04 - Thoughts on the Cable
Note: The link above is an Amazon affiliate link, which means I'll probably get a small (usually ~1-2%) commission that helps support the channel if you decide to buy the item. The commission does not come out of your pocket, but rather from Amazon's.
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Наука
⚠A FEW POINTS (And 2 Month Update)⚠
• I'm not pulling the cell tower theory out of my ass like a conspiracy theorist, look at what it has done to my audio recordings at 5:55 and 6:12 (and was solved with ferrite cores, so not like it was a ground loop)
• While I'm still not fully sure whether the cable tester is correct or not about the split pair, replacing the cable with one I made myself and running in a different route (directly to the wall across the middle of the room, not behind the desk with all the other wires) DID indeed fix the problem. So really I can see 2 possible explanations. First, the cable tester is right (just inconsistent) and the cable was just badly wired. Or second, the cable tester is wrong about the split pair, the old cable is fine, but there is such a massive amount of RFI and crosstalk it overwhelmed the shielding occasionally.
• If my problem is indeed caused by RFI, then this is HIGHLY unlikely to apply to you. Definitely don't think you need some massively shielded cable like the one I bought.
~2 Month Update:
• Regardless of the true original problem, the new cable has indeed solved my problem, and I have not had a single internet disconnect since installing it. Several people have proposed another possible explanation which is that the original cable's shielding (or wiring itself) had imperfections such that when I coiled it back up, the internal cabling went back correctly into place, which is why it wasn't generating the same error anymore. I'm thinking that's probably the most likely scenario, since from what I've read, the shielding even in cat6e should be sufficient for most situations. So my point still stands for spending the extra on the cable though, I wanted the absolute best shielding possible, and I went with this particular brand because they actually tested each individual cable, though yes that does substantially increase the cost.
probably a 5g node since the higher bands cant travel rough stuff very well and thus has to be set up as a more dense cell grid.
@@kakurerud7516 Yep it's definitely 5G based on it's placement and shape
Ns
What about the wiring running through the structure? You've got a top line connection coming from the wall, then, there's the wall, everything in the wall, the box outside the home or business, and the rest of wiring leading back to your service provider. It's a fine looking cable, but a solution?
A cell tower won’t transmit at higher power than your cellphone (2Watt). The reason is that adding power to the tower would increase the reception of the towers signal on your phone but not the reception of your phone’s signal at the tower.
In other words communication would only improve in one direction and it’s only useful if it improves on both directions.
Your own cellphone is therefore much more likely to cause interference at home than a cell tower oven if that tower is nearby. (Signal strength will decrease with the distance squared. It will lose its strength very quickly).
I'm an audiophile, and I noticed my expensive headphones were occasionally (maybe 10% of the time) producing a static-like noise while I was listening to music. Turns out it was the power cable of the amp running parallel to the USB cable feeding the audio data to the DAC. Interference is very real!
How'd you fix this?
I was just about to comment this is an audiophile level cable, honestly I want one just to go with the thick cables I have on my system now.
@@certainperson reroute cables, increase spacing between cables, replace defective cables, upgrade to shielded cabling if it isn't already, add ferrite beads/toroids would be some solutions to consider.
@@certainperson I put distance between the cables (a few inches did the trick).
@@tjmbv8680 A simple cat5 ethernet UTP (Unshielded) cable is perfect for audio. It is not transporting music, it is transporting data packets. But some people like to inject noise into their DAC through the Ethernet port. Best way to do that? A shielded cable! Some expensive "audio grade" ethernet cables do not conform to the standard, they inject noise, so they "sound different" (granted! there is the noise!) but to some people "different" always translates as "better" when they have put a lot of money on it.
At $90, I'm surprised they didn't call it "Monster".
Here are some facts about Ethernet cables.
1) Negotiation is done at 10 Mb, so with a defective cable, it may negotiate a higher speed, but fail when it gets there
2) With 10 & 100 Mb, only the green and orange pairs are used, so a cable that works fine at 100 Mb might not work at Gb, which requires all 4 pairs.
3) Gb Ethernet was designed for plain CAT 5 cable. 5e wasn't even available at that time, so plain CAT 5 is good for 100M and 5e just has tighter tolerances. 5e has replaced plain CAT 5.
4) Anything better than CAT 5e for Gb is a waste of money and may be harder to work with. This is noticeable between 5 & 6.
5) The 4 pairs in a cable have different twist rates, to reduce cross talk between pairs. That wouldn't happen if they all had the same twist rate.
6) Shielded cable may help in situations such as yours, where there may be interference. I have installed it a few times in noisy environments, but generally it won't make much difference otherwise.
7) The shield must be connected to ground at only one point, so check the continuity to ground at each end to ensure you're not grounded at both ends.
@Huss Ranneman Must be a cheap knock off then. ;-)
I think the shield for cat8 testing is connected at both ends. Not sure what the equipment at each end does. Are you thinking ground loops?
@@James_Knott Thanks for sharing!
Nr 7 is wrong though. It depends on the situation.
@@anullhandle Yes. If the shield is grounded at both ends, you may get ground loops.
going overkill is great when you got the ching ching
Hey! Anti-Chinese racism is not welcome here! 😜
@@SpykerSpeed XD
Specially you have fiber.
this sounds mad racist
@@bootlxgching ching is just the sound used to represent money XD
I used to think all cables were equal and then I spent a summer working as network install technician, and I realized how difficult it could be to get a permanent link test to pass on an ethernet cable
Yea, it can be hard explaining that to people especially when they are technical as well.
IT techs can be the worst at understanding this
Think you may have missed a crucial part: try meassuring the cable while bending it, or pulling it.
A intermittent connection can be rather confusing, and give different readings!
I was going to add this. Great catch. I've also had issues in my home with the coax / cable modem and a microwave tower near my house. A quick replace of the main splitter in the utility box solved this problem. I was told there are interfering frequencies, but I have not measured this yet and feel it's debatable.
Hi
exactly my thoughts, i doubt the cable has ANY problems with even gig connections....when it has a good connection and isnt missing 1 pin when it bends wrong
True
Back when Commscope first came out with its Ion-E product, instead of coax to carry the RF around, they used Cat 6 Ethernet cable. As the company I worked for documented it's processes for installation they bought one of those Fluke testers and tested pre-made VS customer made to length cables with those fancy connectors you mentioned and there was an amazing range of quality, or lack thereof between pre-made, with the highest quality being ridiculously expensive (at the time). As most of the runs would be 100 meters or less, it was decided we would make our own and then use the tester to confirm they worked properly. One of our engineers made and tested the cables and connectors and several dozen scenarios and found that even if one cable out of the bunch isn't wrapped the same counts, or if it is wrapped too tightly, the throughput performance of the cable will vary drastically. Every one of those cables must be balanced as an individual pair, and in respect to one another. Needless to say it was pure hell finding people with the meticulous skills to install those connectors on those cables on those jobs. But after a few weeks, and lots of practice, it would finally come together.
Regarding the tower, just guessing you have T-Mobile/Sprint as they use TDD with is like Wifi on steroids. But the problem is more likely caused by your phone simply due to the proximity of it to your hardware VS that tower out front. It is basic physics and the inverse square law, try your test again but this time with all cellphones and your access point in the area turned off and see if it is coming from the tower or your access point since both switch back and forth from TX to RX many times a second. Happy hunting. PS, I am in the process of transitioning away from copper and going to fiber all over the house. Lightning popped in my backyard a few years ago and wiped out my Ethernet based network so I've been going back with fiber since it isn't impacted nearly as badly by lightning, and if I want to upgrade the speed, I don't have to replace any cabling, I just replace the media converters. :)
Nice
I do ham radio and shielded ethernet cables make a huge difference for interference. On transmit it would take out my NIC until I switched to shielded, and on receive I discovered 10/100 IoT devices produce a lot of noise on the HF spectrum.
this! he bought a nice $90 cable but I could crimp a shielded cat7 or him which would work just as well... biggest issue is just getting the grounded ends.
Great video. I'm at my current job now for almost 10 years and building CAT 5# and CAT 6 and 6A shielded cables is part of my job. Molex cables as well and I even messed with Fiber Optic fusing. This video is spot on accurate with everything. We sell CAT 8 shielded cables too but not the 22 AWG one you had in this video. Those shielded ends were really nice too. I mentioned this to my boss, who is also one of my best friends from childhood lol. I sent him this video to see if we can experiment with making them where I work. I got all the tools need on my desk as I type this, even the heat shrink tubing haha. Thanks for posting this!! My name is Joe too btw. Great channel!
I work in the cell tower field. If you’re getting interference, you need to tell the cell company. There should be an identification placard, like a site number or name and possibly a phone number. The other possible option is contacting your city planning department to let them know you’re getting interference. They may be able to help get the carrier fix it.
Do you have any suggestions for how many RF chokes per foot or per cable, or on which types of cables, etc, and what type of choke, is most effective at blocking the interference until the tower is corrected?
@@nataliegrn17 sorry. I’m not a RF engineer, I’m a real estate and permitting guy. I just know the legal and regulatory remedies.
Folks would do well to acquaint themselves with the inverse square law relating to radio signal power levels, if they haven’t already.
The available RF energy at any point along a straight line away from a radiating antenna will decay by at a minimum of 1/r², where r is the distance. In practice, atmospheric absorption and other obstacles along the path will further reduce the available RF energy.
If you look up the licenses for local RF sites (with your local telecom licensing agency) the details of the site tx frequencies, power levels and antenna gain/radiation patterns will likely be documented. With the above in mind, you can get an estimate of how likely a culprit the tower a mile away is likely to be compared to, say, the emissions from your wifi router in the same room.
ferrite cores are awesome!
it's a magic "interference be gone" solution.
I have at least one on every analog audio cable and on all of the interference-heavy devices' power cord.
One thing with ferrite cores is they are not all the same depending on the material it can make it better for blocking 1 frequency over another.
Thanks for making this video, its incredibly re-assuring when someone else has had the same issue for just as long.
Very nice Ethernet cable, it sure is Thicc and looks quality made. I have to pick one up soon so I'll keep this in mind. Thanks for the info👍
If you were concerned with cell interference, why not just run fiber and install an SFP+ card in your PC?
I like how you're asking the real question. I'm running MM fiber in my home-office connecting two switches on the opposite side of the room and I'm going to put some sfp+ pcie cards into my main pc + backup and run either mm fiber or DAC to the access switch. Cat8 is like he said overkill, but unlike he said, it just cannot be justified to install it in his house unless he just wanted to have a cat 8 cable.
This is what I was gonna say. I put fiber cards in my computers for like $50 each. And the fiber cable is extremely easy to work with. Doesn't need any special shielding or bulk. The speed (ping) is much faster than electrons. And each connecter uses like 0.7 watts of electricity per port (at each end of the cable) versus 2-5 watts for copper. And it's very thin, and easy to work with -- typically the solid core copper wires he refers to in the video are used inside walls where they're not handled often and don't need to bend around tight spaces like inside a desk or entertainment center.
I used point-to-point connections to my NAS until I was lucky enough to pick up a brand new ($1100) 10G fiber switch from a datacenter for $100!! They were moving to Atlanta and selling a lot of equipment so I bought a few servers for like $100 each.
@@AnastasiaValentineNAiden Actually, the signal propagation of electrons in wire, or photons in fibre are in the same ballpark at ~66% the speed of light. This is why Satellite communications are potentially lower latency than undersea fibre as in space a radio wave, or laser pulse can travel at ~99% the speed of light.
Fibre may achieve lower latency due to fewer transmission errors, meaning less retransmits, so communications become more reliable due to the immunity from RFI and crosstalk fibre brings.
Fibre encoding schemes are also usually simpler, meaning data doesn't need any buffering, waiting to be sent across 4 pairs with all that QAM rubbish, you just line the bits up and send them down the single fibre channel.
Another way fibre can reduce latency is say in a line of 5 buildings that form an commercial centre. Each one has a switch, and those are daisy chained. with ~100m links between each one. So the two end buildings have to communicate through 4 switches to see each other. This is fine as the links are already at around the max distance, there's no other way... Enter some cheap SM fibre with 1km range so now you can run point to point links between each building instead of needing to daisy chain them, each building has a direct link to each other building. effectively cutting out the latency.
On a large campus of buildings, or an office complex, this can reduce latencies MASSIVELY by taking out switch hops, while also multiplying bandwidth.
Should have just done Fiber.Pre made cabling and SFP suppliers like FS and equipment from Mikrotik make it dirt cheap.Mikrotik recently released their new range of 100Gbit switches recently as well.
Thought I'd post my experience here just in case anyone hadn't thought of it, i was having the EXACT same experience of my connection randomly dying, but then I noticed it would always die if I saturated the read speed of the gigabit network (with a file transfer over LAN). I saw this video and was like, wow I should check all the cables in my network setup. So I spent the whole day swapping out cables and testing it again to see if it would fix it, but wasn't able to. Then I decided to try a different ethernet adapter (I was using a gigabit port in a USB4 hub I had recently purchased), and the problem was gone! So in my case it was the actual ethernet to USB-C adapter I was using. Just something to keep in mind. Also, it was a Realtek RTL8153 chip in a Cable Matters 201308 I'm having trouble with.
2:20 that sounds unlikely based on the footage you showed before. I think the insulation somewhere in the cable is broken and the 1,2 pair are connected. The reason why it doesn't have the problem after removal is that the 2 vains aren't touching each other at the broken spot anymore due to moving of the cable.
OMG I've been having this issue all year, and would just happen at absolute random. Thank you so much for this vid
Thank you for the video, made a lot of sense and I'm definitely going to buy that cable you suggested.
The method used to reduce interference in pro audio is Common Mode Rejection. In professional audio gear there will be a differential amplifier inside of any gear that uses standard 'balanced cables.
twisted pair
I would argue that common mode rejection is an attribute or desired outcome; the “method used” is differential signaling. By making your desired signal exist in the “differential mode”, everything you want to remove will be in the “common mode” (ie signals that are radiated more or less equally, or common, to the two differential conductors). Common mode rejection ratio (CMRR) is a metric for indicating the effectiveness of cancelling the common mode noise.
I doubt the cable had actual split pairs. What I've seen several times are cables which show as OK on a network tester. Then if the cable is slightly bent or squished the tester shows a split pair or misswire. This is because of poor winding which opens up when the cable is bent, which causes crosstalk. Those basic Ethernet testers interprets it as a split pair or misswire.
Edit: For a short (
Great video!
Thanks!
I have dealt with a LOT of industrial level ethernet that is dealing with interference from dozens of noisy motors and drives... I have also dealt with the single side grounding and found industrial equivalents of the cable connector you have shown. The really cool thing is they are clamp on and have special heads for pulling cable or for different plug styles... expensive, but really great stuff when you have difficulties or interference issues.
I have this same exact issue with my computer. Glad you made this video, I might try some of what you said in this video.
When the Ethernet cable is thicc 😳
2thicc4u
I have been using CAT7 for years, for a 30foot run, works great, now for 6+ years! ThioJoe, file a Complaint with the FCC, as they want to know about Problem transmitters..
Bro my laptop is not charging orange light blinks when I plugged out and plugged in for 5 sec starts charging than off than on than just falshing cahrger is ok without battery any solution?
The added thickness is not just the wire alone, every pair is twisted and shielded. And then all the shielded pares are twisted and shielded again. The larger metal connector now has to accommodate all the individual shielding for each twisted pair. Way overkill but highly efficient with virtually no signal loss or degradation. Even though I would not recommend it you could probably run a cat8 cable parallel with an AC supply wire and not have any issue. But I still would refrain from doing that.
Had similar interference problems with my TV setup. The combination of mess of wires, wireless signals, newer cell signals, cheap low shielded antenna(with extra long attached coax cable), amplifier on top of noise, movement from people, and the use of regular dual shielded coax cable made it extremely random and irritating when watching TV.
I bought a higher range antenna that had the coax connector on it instead of those long, cheap, low shielded ones attached. I paid extra for two extra short quad shielded cables for most of the setup(and cut out at least eight ft of unnecessary cable). I bought a cell signal filter for LTE and 5G signals and put it before the amplifier.
I tested the different configurations but only together did I get a perfect signal on all channels. The only thing I didn't do was use a heavily shielded USB cable for the amplifier which has been known to cause problems especially with cheaper cables and power supplies.
I like the idea of the connector. It's pointless for me and the use I could give it, but it looks so good that I may go and try to build one cable, just to check out that connector.
07:31 Yeah same, I bought 2 cables (25cm and 50cm) cat8.1 S/FTP 2 weeks ago, they were delivered with their own measurement certificates.
thanks for the vid man!
even though i don't have any problems with my connection, it's still nice to know about latest copper cables tech and how to avoid interference😉👍
personally i'm satisfied with "only" cat5e 24awg 🤠👌
Thanks for uploading this video made my day
I have cable internet through Sparklight( formally CableOne), and the internet is connected to my wireless modem from the wall using a coaxial cable. My computer has the same symptoms with the internet flickering on and off about 5 to 6 times per day. Is there a better cable that I can use between the wall and my wireless modem?
I use a DSX5000 at work, more for industrial M12 connectors than ethernet so usually 10G cat7 cable.
They're great for these random and confusing issues, as they can detect NEXT & FEXT, ACR & ACR-F, and graph everything by pairs so you can see exactly what's happening.
I think part of the price is for the software, which is designed to test setups for whole buildings and large scale installations and map it all out nicely.
My computer doesn't show my ethernet connection. I checked the Device Manager and it's not shown. I've plugged the ethernet cable in and have a blinking light on the computer, if that helps. I am using my WiFi connect. I do show 8 WAN Miniports if that info is important. Any suggestions?
I use cat8 for my WAN connection because it's likely more durable and gives me a cable to use on a faster connection if need be. It actually wasn't that expensive, though it helps that it was a simple flat cable. For a while, I had weird issues with my WAN connection randomly going to 100Mbps on my old flat cat6 cable. It gave me some weird readings on my cable tester and that's when I replaced it with cat8.
Question: I see you made all the measurements on your network infrastructure (cable to wall, the wiring, to patch panel).
Did you made a measurement of the signal from the nearby cell tower antennas, if they were within the boundaries of regulation for your location?
It would be an interesting follow up.
Stuff like this is why I come to your channel!
Hey, thank you for this video, i got a quick question, i have a new TP Link AX55 wifi Router (Wifi 6) and am looking to get a better cable (my ISP put a cat 5) and am getting really slow speeds, and i know the cat 5 only has a frequency of 100 MHz, so when I set up my new network and it show 120MHz, but then the net dissapears when i seet it up that name dissapearear, so this is why my network does not work, do you think that i need at least cat6 or cat6a.
Another quality video from Theolene !
Thio I've been using your tutorials to help fix and boost my computer whenever things go wrong and I have this specific problem that I cant seem to fix,I recently gave my pc a factory reset and I accidentally turned it off but when it started back up there was no Microsoft store and every game is saying they need game overlay link and so on I need help please
That's the kind of chonky Ethernet cable we use for some POE devices as well as the controllers of the Microh LED panels of giant LED walls (but we use an ordinary CAT7 cable to connect the wall to the Nova Star controller 🤷).
Thank you for mentioning Cat7... Just because it doesn't have TIA/EIA recognition doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Is that actual POE. or just some honking DC conductors sharing the same insulation as the STP? I've seen stuff like that before. Or run three ethernet cables. One has the real data... the other two are all just shorted at each end and crimped into a big DC lug each with a red or black heat shrink.
Ethernet cable also takes a couple of amps of mains (230 VAC) pretty well, If you're in Europe you even have the right colours, Blue=Neutral, Brown=Live and Green=Earth. The Orange one could be used for something like RS485.... be VERY weary of cutting cable out of a home automation nutters house, cause that's the kind of stuff you're likely to find LOL. Just for the love of god use an ethernet cable that is a different colour to the data cables!
Hey ThioJoe, what program is that at 6:00 that you use to see that there is interference, I'm having similar issues but I don't know who to check it
It's just Audacity, it's free. I just used the microphone to record silence and that's the interference that came into it. To get the spectrum view, after recording a track, on the left hand side where it says "Audio Track" I click the dropdown arrow then select "spectrogram".
Sir, I have a dell gaming laptop and since last few months, I have noticed that the read write speed of my 1 TB SATA HDD had been reduced considerably. Is there any solution to fix this issue ?
Industrial Ethernet is what is used to control automation devices like PLCs. Sometimes called (depending on the application) EtherCat, EtherNet/IP (industrial/protocol), POWERLINK etc.
I bought a shielded Cat8e cable (15 m) from a German manufacturer (inLine) that tests their cables(they even give you the test results). Apparently I live in an area close to shipping lanes (I live by the water) and their radars can interfere with my signals. So I got the 8e cables to give me more stability rather than anything to do with speed - if you have 1000 Mbps transmissions - then it won't help anyway. But I have noticed a more stable connection during the day compared to my unshielded CAt6 cable.
Ive been having this same damn issue now for months!
EDIT: Ive been troubleshooting my wiring paths with this new knowledge in hand and I think I have solved my issue. Thanks for this, its been driving me nuts trying to diagnose this with my ISP who has been anything other than helpful and not offering any real solutions other than the standard "did you turn it off then on again?" nonsense.
Good video on CAT8. I believe you are right in that if you don't have a need for the extra shielding, it is probably not worth opening the wallet. The only other reason I can think if is if you are into Hi-Fi and want to eliminate noise/interference as much as possible. But then you would probably have a network switch for audio (with a linear power supply) ensuring that only healthy packages are being sent anyway.
MPTL ( modular plug terminated link) connector is what those plugs are . We use them for cat 6 or 6A shielded as well . It’s actually now an official standard for using modular plugs for direct connection to cameras , access points and other devices without having to have a jack and box plus patch cord .
Awesome thanks I couldn't find official the name of them 👍
@@ThioJoe welcome . Great video, and channel
I had a different problem with my apple tv randomly disconnecting from the tv, it turned out to be the hdmi cable, i bought another one and the apple tv still would randomly disconnect telling me "the content can't be played on this tv" which was infuriating. Until i got myself an hdmi cable they use in television studios for connecting high end gear together, i got this cable from a friend, it's like your ethernet cable, very THICC and not bendy at all, but man, we never encountered that error again, like you said, it might be interference from other devices around the house or influences from the outside, but this 'industrial' hdmi cable does the trick for me! Good video
here i was thinking there was up to cat5 lol
Funny that this issue occurred on ps5. For almost a year I’ve been having this issue and I couldn’t find any thing. And last week I’ve been digging in some information about lan cables I found out there is a cat8 and decided to buy one. And GUESS WHAT! The issue is gone. I now get at most 1ms ping during online game play 🙌🏼🙌🏼
The problem with the cell tower theory is that its interference would be fairly continuous like on the microphone, not a few times a day. I would be more suspect of something in your house like a compressor (or other large motor) cycling, producing a burst of EMF. For example is the AC compressor or refrigerator on the other side of the wall? The better shielding on the cat 8 cable would help.
Dirty power is a big deal.
I think it would be pretty educative if you've measured these pairs with oscilloscope. I'm really curious what it would look like.
🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊💦🌊💦💦💦💦💦💦
Looking back , would you still buy that cable ? I have 8 gig coming, I’m jot running very long runs in feet wise. I have a had a huge signal interference that I’m dealing with, have a cell tower close now also. Then I have a cb antenna close by the guy uses still. So I’m very interested in this interference. Just very curious if you would still buy this one or you would look at another one
Audio tech and electronics designer here.
To help with interference you want to have as well shielded XLR cable with as good connectors as possible and high quality preamp for that SM7B. SM7B is difficult, low outoput + somewhat high impedance source that many cheaper preamps struggle with. But it's also a case of how one uses the SM7B, it's very low output means that you must be RIGHT ON THE MIC for it to pick up high enough signal and then you don't need as much gain for the same SNR, if you're more than 1 inch away from the mic wind screen, you're too far away.
SM7B is an artist mic, voice over mic... voice talent mic. It's not suitable for much else, thus one must know how to use it properly.
You can also try fethead or similar j-fet preamplifier (that uses phantom power) to boost the signal very cleanly right at the source and then have the cable run to your interface. This helps with the low quality preamps quite a bit :)
We confused our IT cabling folks one time we asked them to test an Ethernet cable and it was stranded. It was used on a robot and the stranded cables can handle the constant bending I learned. I’ve also learned a little about Ethernet Industrial Protocol and those beefy cables are used on factory floors where cost is next to nothing compared to system they’re used on.
Good explanations
do you read comments on any of your older posts? cause some people get your old posts in the recent searches.
I didn't realize that using an older cable standard would result in intermittent problems. My experience has always been that intermittent problems were due to a bad connection, but I guess that's wrong. I'm going to get one of those cable testers just in case I run into anything like that in the future
It definitely is probably a bad connection in 99% of problems. I really think mine is a special case because of the cell tower which I already know has caused issues with my audio like I show later in the video. Of course I could be wrong about that, but I can't really test it without $10K+ equipment
@@ThioJoe It's probably better to diagnose by elimination than buy $10,000 worth of cable testing equipment. The other option is to bring in a technician who spent the aforementioned equipment in order to figure out what's going on
@@ThioJoe Bad connections are a common problem. I've been a tech for almost 50 years (50 on May 1) and I can say that with certainty. If you have a problem, check the cable and connections first.
Crosstalk (magnetic interference) is proportional to the cosine of the angle between the two cables. So in order to eliminate crosstalk you need to have the two wires at 90 degrees to each other, which is achieved by twisting them
I've been having trouble in a similar or same way. While on a call the other side could hear me but everything froze on my end for a few seconds at random times. This has been happening for years now, we called the Internet provider but they said it's all good on their end. Also changed the router but still the same thing happens. Not an issue anymore as I graduated my master's degree (just master's thesis left some day) but in lectures when it was live it would break up for a few seconds and then when it's fine it would be like I've put it on x5 haha
I kept getting network disconnects, same as you mention, with my desktop that is my NAS/Media Server. I have a small fridge about 8ft from it. I eventually figured out that every time the Fridge compressor kicks on or off, the NIC reports disconnect. I had to not only replace the cat6a STP cable with a cat8 S/FTP cable (better shielding), but also, put the fridge on a surge protector that has high EMI/Noise filtering spec (high dbi). Those changes fixed the issue.
Cat 8 is worth the money. Old, small capacity cables that some of us tend to use as patch cables between desktop devices, reduce the capabilities of every device they are connected to, including internet speeds. I use a single piece of 33 meter Cat 8 cable from my 1 Gig fibre gateway running through my attic to my primary router at my desktop iMac in my home office, and there is no noticeable loss of signal strength.
I have used Supra CAT8 for my hifi system and wired to the TV, to shield the systems from electronic noise. Just ordered another to replace a faulty cable from the front to the back of my house
Thio can you recommend a good (economical) tester for me?
You can get EMI/RF resistant window film to help with external EMI/RF. I had to get it for one side of my home and it worked well.
Unless you want to have wifi in your front/backyard
nice and educational
If we rename the windows folder to windows.old and then restart would it break windows?
I've had people telling me for 30yrs now that I don't need more memory, hard drive capacity, etc. Fact of the matter is they were trying to con me into buying the minimum required at the time. I always try and go with the best highest quality that I can afford.
I would love to see the FCC cert for that cell tower equipment
Joe: Cat8 is overkill...
Linus: it's my home setup for casual gaming and movies)
Thio I had this exact same problem and I blamed my crappy internet. Thanks for the info :)
We use industrial Ethernet in our factory. Mostly we have Cat5e and Cat 6, mostly shielded. The distinction of "industrial Etherne" is more about the protocol used and the type of managed switches. Everybody seems to be relabeling some garbage Cisco switches that take all day and require lengthy reboots. I haven't purchased one in a while, so maybe they have made improvements.
1) Ethernet/IP is a poorly named protocol from Allen Bradley and typically used for cyclic and deterministic communications. Messages are sent as fast as 1ms for most I/O functions, but the engineer balances the needs for each I/O device and may set the packet interval at one second, or larger in a huge network. Most of mine are around 10ms to keep traffic down on the master ( , which is called a PLC). For motion applications another protocol is used. There is clock-time synchronization so that all devices will start their work at the same time. For example a master device will command a bunch of servo drives to perform coordinated motions. Since the servo drives are relatively simple, they reply with the motor position and an accurate time stamp of what time the position was taken. The master then performs math and sends new velocity commands to the servo drives with a begin time. These exchanges typically occur at 250 microseconds. On these systems s managed switch must include the feature to add it's own processing time to the time given by the master. On return traffic it does the same thing with data from the servo drives that have a time stamp.
2) Profinet is a Siemens brand protocol used for the same purpose, with some pretty advanced features.
3) EtherCAT is a protocol by Beckhoff that uses a ring network that can be configured also as a straight line where the last device in the string sends data back the way it came. This protocol is not compatible with TCP/IP and therefore a separate network is required. This protocol has two distinctions. It is very fast. And a non-related equipment manufacturer can purchase protocol chips from Beckhoff and instantly they have a certified EtherCAT device without any testing. And the chips are pretty cheap. So a lot of third party companies produce compatible equipment. But you need an EtherCAT master controller. People like the controllers and languages they have previously learned. The cost of trying something different is immense in a short calendar time project. I used a bunch of Beckhoff hardware in the past because they have the largest selection of I/O in the world. And they provide protocol adapters for just about every Ethernet and Serial network type out there. I used their controllers on cost sensitive projects, but the learning curve was fairly big.
[ edit: This is all completely wrong] The tech behind balanced audio cables isn't quite the same as twisted pair cabling. It's got the same intention (cancelling out noise) but the actual mechanics of it are different. Just to note. Twisted pair cabling is *not* balanced. Each individual wire strand is carrying different Stuff, whereas in a balanced cable you send data down one wire, and a reversed copy of the data down the other.
The diagram at 3:35 is explaining a balanced cable, but not a twisted pair cable.
Hm good to know. I was reading about twisted pairs and it said it 'could' be used as a balanced line, and just kind of assumed it was for ethernet.
"Twisted pair cabling is not balanced."
Nonsense. It's a differential signal, which means the two wires have opposite sides of the same signal. Ethernet has used differential signalling since the 10baseT days, with 10 Mb on CAT3 cable.
From "Ethernet The Definitive Guide, by Charles Spurgeon, 1st ed.
Under 1000Base-T Signal Encoding pg. 158
"The differential voltages used on the wire pair swing from approximately zero to +1 volts on the positive wire and from zero to -1 volts on the positive wire."
@@ThioJoe It is balanced. The person you replied to is incorrect. See my reply to him.
@@James_Knott Huh, I did not do nearly enough research here. I'm gonna amend my original post in case anyone sees that but not your correction.
Did you have an update on the results?
when you work in the audio industry you become accustomed to 300ft long cat8 cables that are double shielded. someone shut one in a door a few months ago, thats $290 we are never getting back
I have basically raised my standards for ethernet cables because of your videos. I use powerline adapters around the apartment so I made sure the Ethernet cables from router to Powerline and from Powerline to the network switch where my PC is hooked up to is all Cat6a with S/FTP shielding. (S/FTP means every twisting is shielded with foil and the overall cable is then again shielded with braid) from there on my PC and Laptop are connected with Cat6 wheras everything else low priority is Cat5e. However because I do encounter the same issue that you do, just not once or twice a day but once every 3 or 4 days, I decided to at least amp up my game and get 6a for my PC and laptop as well
what if there is an electrical surge on the grid? are your powerline adapters safe to use?
Hi! Joe!!! I am Godspeed working as a sound-engineer in south Korea. I've been using the Linkup connectors with belden LAN cables. I connects audio consoles and IOs with LAN cables and sometimes loses the connections. As you mentioned, I'd better use the ferrite core!!! Thanks!!!
Linkup makes great cables. I could make my own, but, naw, I'm happy to have it tested and certified. I have a bunch of Cat6 and Cat7 from them.
Industrial Ethernet is generally designed for flexibility and robustness. We actually use non-shielded cable because the shield can cause issues.
*"Marginally improve your internet speed! NOT for free"*
good explanation man...
Great vid, for me Cat6a is my go-to cable when buying but if you got the cash then cat8 might not be bad. The extra shielding adds some mechanical protection.
But there are two things that caught my eye.
1, you removed the shield on your old cable? Was it connected or was it just some metal around the plug? If it wasn't connected it might not be a shielded cable at all and probably just added to look like a shielded cable.
2. I use a Fluke DSX-5000 weekly at work, they are great testers which are super accurate and your report looked genuine too. But fluke makes special patch cord test adapter which plug into the main body of the tester, and I would rather have used those instead of running through a permanent link as they showed on the amazon listing. Should give a valid result with the PL adapter, but then you are also testing the permanent link, keystone modules and 2 patch cords in one test instead of only testing the patch cable
As a first measure I would keep data cables apart from those providing electrical power, especially those providing 110V or 230V (in Europe).
As an alternative to expensive cables there are metalized cable housings available which can contain (and tidy up) several data cables. There is no need to continue this kind of housing from port to port because if the major length of the cable in question is protected a short way between the connectors and the housing do not catch enough RFI to get distorted.
I had a nicked piece of Cat6 in the roof from a roofing nail. Worked 90% of the time. A basic tester showed no issues. Then I borrowed a friends super expensive fluke cable tester and sure enough, it indicated a problem with the insulation and resistance on one of the pairs. If money was no issue, I'd buy one up.
how do you connect this new plug to your computer though?
Finally seeing a guy on RUclips use it.
I've replaced my whole house network with cat8 for about a year now.
I'd say it's as advertised, 10GB is reachable but the nic is really hot. Also, the only time it reaches 10G is when I use iperf or copy a huge file from my nas.
Btw, yeah 22awg makes it really hard to bend it, I've to do a bunch of roller coaster style loops.
I've used a cat8 cable for my point to point wireless link between building because a lot of the cable is outside. I wanted the extra shielding.
I was looking for some more detailed info on CAT Cables and I came across you "What Ethernet Cable to Use? Cat5? Cat6? Cat7? and I was wondering if you had a newer video since this other video was done 5 years ago?
Great trouble shooting. Hit the nail on the head bud!🤙🏼
I had the same problem with an old cat 4 cable that comes from my router modem upstairs, I replaced it with cat 7 and now it doesn't come down a conduit with 240V ac leads and it's been fine.
CAT 4? Never heard of it. CAT 3 was good enough for 10 Mb, but CAT 5 is required for 100 Mb & Gb.
@@James_Knott well whatever it was, the 100mb cable
@@DogsBAwesome That would be CAT5.
Category 7 and category 8 cables are for shorter distances. Cat5e and Cat6/a will work for longer distances I have a question regarding that cell phone tower have you had any headaches recently
I have 6 ft 26AWG Cat 8 cable from my router to my switch. It was pretty cheap on Amazon. The router is a WiFi repeater for my mobile data hotspot on my phone. I don't have any interference issues.
I am compelled to ask. Is there a specific reason that you did not go with the DbillionDa Cat8 Ethernet Cable brand on Amazon?
Can you please tell me where to find that background? it's kind of cool ngl
If the cable you are using has proper color coded wires, and clear RJ-45 connectors, you can visually check the colors are in the correct locations per T568A or T568B spec by looking through the back side of the clear connector. This won't tell you if the color pairs are in the wrong place for the spec but still wired correctly by pairs for the standard, (for that you have to compare both ends to each other), but split pairs should be visually evident. This also won't usually make a substandard custom cable crimp evident unless it's REALLY BAD, for that you will need a tester.
And here I am running my home 10gige network over standard Cat5e just fine.
That's good stuff! Just like that.
You can get double shielded Cat6a, SSTP, S/FTP. CAT8 just mandates the higher shielding.