I think one of the single most underrated moments in Disney song history is having gospel music in Hercules. One of the biggest sins in Disney history, though, is not giving Hades a villain song.
I'm guessing Hades doesn't have a villain song because there's no way James Woods could sing. And that part was written specifically for Woods. As for the gospel, I've always been on the fence... I like gospel, not hating, but I've never been totally convinced it really fit the movie. It felt a little too much like Menken going back to his comfort zone and recycling Little Shop.
@@jasonblalock4429 my view is that the gospel music emulates the style of music in ancient Greek theatre- a chorus singing together to explain the plot
Kevin Pauly Wow I haven’t seen that movie in a while if I’m making those errors. I’ve never been to New York before and I have heard the movie compared to Vegas so haven’t really thought about it any differently. New York makes sense, but it still was the main drawback of the film.
**talks for ten minutes about the backstory of one film, citing a complex set of events and taking the story back about 60 years** "But wait. I've only been telling you _half_ of the story."
I've heard it before, but Katzenberg wanting to remove "Part of Your World" bothers me so much. To me, that scene is the emotional core of the entire film.
He wanted to cut the song because it was slower and had less imagery than others and he thought that young children wouldn’t sit through it, calling it a “wiggle moment”. I think that Howard Ashman refused to have the song removed from the movie because it would really help the story and help the audience understand Ariel more. They had some stuff about The Little Mermaid and Part of Your World in a documentary about Howard Ashman on Disney+. (Edit: it says a bit about it right near the end of the video).
Without Part Of Your World, the movie wouldn’t resonate nearly as deeply as it continues to do. IMO it’s one of the greatest I Want songs of all time. And Jodi Benson’s delivery - a master class.
@@shazza9975 That kinda is the emotional centerpiece I remember from the Little Mermaid... Even though I watched it when I was like 6 and can't remember anything else plotwise.^^ Just think how ridicioulous it would be to remove it... lots of 'kids'-movies have a strong element of "Longing for *something*", and that song just captures that so perfectly.
When people say Disney, I just think about that cursive D. I thought it looked pike a G for the longest time, I was so confused until like 9 when I really understood where the D is.
Howard Ashman clearly loved his job. You can just see it in the Disney films he is apart of. I think he was the heart of Disney. After he sadly passed away, Disney became very ruthless in its money making. Don't get me wrong, the Disney renaissance is my childhood but I think Ashman and Menken were the dream team.
Howard was a visionary producer/director in much the same way Walt was, perhaps more so since he understood the technical elements of dramatic and theatrical story telling as well as the key role of music as an emotional vehicle. Had Howard not died there would have been another near decade of legendary films from Disney. He was the missing piece of the puzzle for their success after Walt's death. The ebb and flow of the company has hinged on that that type of genius and is often handed over to mediocre talents and suits who just want to squeeze profit for stock options.
@Josh Dunne No. There was clearly a message in mind. Being THE MESSAGE Disney uses now. Say what you want about Disney in the 1970s and early 1980s, but they did a lot of innovation. You think Walt would do children’s animated films forever? Ron Miller (Walt’s son-in-law) who served as a top executive in the company until he got fired by Roy E. Disney, recalled a time in the early 1960s where he saw “To Kill A Mockingbird” with Walt, and Walt said “That’s the kind of film I want to make.” I doubt it was the anti-racism message, and more of the dark tone it had. However, Walt never got to it due to the company having that reputation. Throughout the 1970s, Miller got more and more power, and he finally put together the first PG movie in 1979 called “The Black Hole.” (Keep in mind, this was before PG-13 was a thing) Thought not the biggest hit, it made money, and it showed that Disney was ready to move in from kiddie movies, to more mature stuff. If it weren’t for Miller, “Tron” (One of the first movies to use CGI) probably would have never come out. He formed Touchstone Pictures in 1984 before he got fired, and it proved to be a moneymaker for Disney after he left. As “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?” “Good Morning Vietnam,” and “The Nightmare Before Christmas” just to name a few. Heck, Touchstone’s first movie “Splash” is the reason why “The Little Mermaid” almost never got made, and why Ariel is a redhead.
Couldn't agree more. If Howard Ashman wouldn't have gotten sick and passed away I would have died to have him as the head of Disney's animation department😭 In my opinion he was the one who inherited the heart of what made Disney truly, fully special.
I really miss the choral singing in Disney movies. To me that swell of voices and the soul behind it have come to represent my personal relationship with the films and what they imparted to me over the years.
Might not fit with the general theme here, but today i read about Mulan, and how after "A girl worth fighting for" there is no singing anymore, and the huns in genral don't sing, unlike other disney villains. It's like with the depiction of war after "a girl worth fighting for" the real world has kinda caught up with the characters. I can't really replicate the amazing analysis in a few sentences but I hope you get the sentiment,
Makes sense. The first part of the "Military experience" for Mulan is very jokey, and it comes across more like she's joining a Frat House as opposed to a Military Unit. "Girl Worth Fighting For" is the "End of the Innocence" for Shang's Warriors, as they are hit with the very stark and sobering reality that war is not a game, It's not glorious. It's cruel and takes innocent lives. The "Girl Worth Fighting For" isn't their dream girl, It's the innocent women and children being slaughtered by The Huns. Also, the end of GWFF is when the film stops being a musical and becomes a dark action movie about War. I can understand why the Huns don't have a villian song, they aren't the vain, campy Disney villain. While there are no more musical numbers after GWFF, there is still music. IIRC, there is a musical callback to I'll Make A Man Out You" when the three guys crossdress to sneak into the palace at the end of the film.
Fun fact! Menken and Ashman called "Part of Your World" "Somewhere that's Wet" because of how similar it is to "Somewhere that's green" from Little Shop
@@ALu-nq8rf Water is not wet in 2019? Really? If something becomes wet by by being covered or saturated by water, that means water is wet. It is covered by and surrounded by other particles of water.
Instantly subscribing now. I love how he’s the first person to talk about, even mention, Howard Ashman. True many acknowledge that he’s responsible for bringing Disney into its renaissance but I have yet to find anyone on RUclips to talk about him at length, let alone mention his tragic passing! Love this video good work.
@@smashley4661 It was led by Don Hanh, another Disney legend. The fact that Disney greenlit a documentary about Ashman shows how much his work meant to the company.
2:48 this always irks me, Disney released the first ever AMERICAN animated feature length film. The first film was in Argentina over 20 years earlier and the German animated film "The Adventures of Prince Achmed" is the oldest suriving film from 1926. Love the video, love anything that give Howard Ashman the love and admiration he deserves.
jesus man you simultaneously sound so goddamn intelligent and make me, a lonesome bingewatcher, feel like i just unlocked my sixth sense and ultimately becoming the most enlightened creature in the universe. Ur a real gift to this platform...
I laughed when he introduces Howard Ashman in the video and says "Remember him because..." because I'm like "Remember him? I never forgot him". R.I.P. Howard. Your talent, heart and passion is terribly, awfully missed.
@@Sophia-fk6km That's an excellent point. Nostalgic might be more appropriate in that sense, then. It's nostalgic to different people in different decades.
Oh man, hearing you talk about Howard Ashman is a true gem. I always cry when I remember everything about him, we lost him way too soon, but at least his work lives on and will be loved for ever.
Isabel Caballero it’s sad. I’d love to meet Alan Menken someday because he and Ashman essentially saved the Walt Disney company but from these videos you can tell that Menken focuses on the score and writing the music to make it so catchy and beloved, but Ashman crafted his lyrics by having a specific vision for the story, and influenced so many parts of each movie. I wish his time here was longer, so much longer.
I know this video is 3 years old but 17:30 just gave me actual chills. I've seen this movie a hundred times and listened to the soundtrack even more, NEVER realized that Ariel singing away her voice was the first melody from Part of Your World. God I miss Howard Ashman.
Anytime someone just starts discussing The Little Mermaid, I start to choke up and cry. Even more so when I hear the instrumentals. Especially the score for the opening of the film where the "camera" goes underwater and we see those merpeople in shadow. The Little Mermaid is my favorite Disney Princess film and every time I hear that track, I'm mentally two years old again on Christmas morning, curlers in my hair, I've just unwrapped my new Ariel Barbie doll, The Little Mermaid is playing on the TV beside the tree and I'm so excited with my new doll that when my mother asks me who it is with her knowing smile, I just start pointing at the TV while excitedly screaming "This is The Little Mermaid!" over and over again.
That particular opening score also brings me back to the very first time I ever saw The Little Mermaid as well. I had just learned to walk so I grabbed it and put it into the VHS player on top of the TV in the front living room... I was interested because I had heard about merpeople somewhere and this film, although animated, seemed like it might teach me more about them. I remember sitting on the couch, jaw dropped, completely in awe the second I saw those first silhouetted merpeople. In my brain, I was like "Oh my god, there they are! Maybe they're real?!" despite knowing that the film was animated. I just assumed that almost anything that could be animated had to have been drawn from real life, so that's what made me first start to think merpeople were real. I also happen to have been born to a dad who has always been a professional fisherman. He used to tell me that no one knows just how deep the ocean really is, so we don't know 100% of what's out there. That gave me further hope and I hoped with all of my might that every day he went fishing, he might find a way for me to meet and talk to a merperson. Hopefully Ariel herself. So in a way, because of this movie's existence, merpeople sort of became my first ever favorite mythical creature. I finally did get to meet the real Ariel, though. Jodi Benson. I was so excited that I was finally getting one of my childhood dreams when I met her and she was so nice!
In conclusion, "Once they have a successful formula, they will repeat it again, and again, and again. It is always calling back to collective nostalgia on both animated and musical theater, but then it creates something new and brings it together". You're welcome ;)
Yeah, right? But that's what so smart about Disney, you find a formula and keep working on it because doing the same thing over and over again and expect different is clearly a definition of crazy haha. Yet, when Disney try something new, people say "If it is not broken, don't fix it"( credit to cogsworth ) oh well. hahah
@@anacarone6690 I think the key is having a sense for when the formula is getting stale and to start shaking things up. So many attribute the Disney Renaissance in large part to Bluth leaving and forcing Disney's hand. They had to innovate or Bluth was going to continue stealing their thunder. You're not going to have a competitor to force you to do this though. So that's when you really need a visionary who can see when the formula is reaching its natural peak (Law of Diminishing Returns and all that) and start to push for some changes to bring something fresh.
Do you really want to practice a profession that does not provide you with a fixed employment contract, fixed salary, health insurance, paid leave and retirement benefits? a job that depends fundamentally on your ability to create?
Ilyas Adam Ilyas Adam That’s up to the individual. Yes being an independent animator means it’s up to you to save toward retirement and find health insurance (in the United States at least, where it’s not universal). But that’s just like anyone else starting a small business. Which is what you do as an independent animator. It’s up to the individual to set their day rates based on their financial needs. It’s not something that happens overnight, you work toward it and if you’re successful it’s really rewarding to be your own boss. It’s the best time in history to be an independent creator, the number of platforms you can reach an audience on is endless. If you’re fortunate to be a employed to a team at a studio, they have benefits provided like any other employer would. Having a job relying on creating final products is a high-workload sometimes but if you have the skill and drive for it, it’s no different than grinding at any other job. It’s more work but it’s more fun. A lot of animators go into teaching at colleges while either doing their independent work or while being employed at other studios. I had a professor who is a director at Ted Ed’s RUclips channel. I had a professor who worked for titmouse while teaching. I had a professor who was a Disney animator. I had a thesis advisor who was also a professor and works for BUCK studio. Hell the musician, Voltaire, taught stop-motion for a long time before they ended the department at that particular school. This was all at School of Visual Arts, one of the larger schools with animation on the east coast. There are countless private and public colleges with art and animation programs that need professors. As artists, there are other fields that we can crawl into. Other side gigs to keep us sustained. It might seem abnormal for the average person, we have the flexibility of being able to hop around if we want or need. All our work constantly building up our portfolios, constantly networking with new artists. Networking is huge. The more people you’re connected to in the industry, the more likely someone will recommend you to fill a position when they have projects that require more hands. This industry is more reliant on your body of work and relationships with peers who want to work with you. You’re more likely to be hired through being recommended for the job by peers. If you learn and understand how to navigate this different industry, there’s no reason you can’t find success.
The Rescuers was a major hit, as well as The Fox and the Hound. This guy is mainly talking about lasting impact on Disney today. When's the last time you saw anything from the 1970s and early 1980s stuff in Disney parks?
The first feature-length animated film was actually Lottie Reiniger's "The Adventures of Prince Achmed" (1922). She did the whole thing with paper puppets she cut herself, it's incredible.
You could also mention how Disney was influenced by classical opera. Snow White especially is very operatic, the wishing well scene and song seem straight from an opera. The prince's song 'One Song', which is also the movie's theme, very operatic. Also, the young lady who voiced Snow White was a classically trained opera singer.
Here’s some random food for thought: What if Disney created the idea for “Ratatouille” back in the Disney Renaissance? Just imagine what style it would have been
"...When Phil Collins ruined everything," I have never heard anyone say this about his work on both Tarzan and Brother Bear. I may not have a music degree or anything, but I personally think he did an amazing job with these movies.
Oddly enough, I've never heard anyone _defend_ his music in those films. It's good music, but it's jarring and doesn't suit the actual movies themselves. You're watching the movie, immersed in its setting, and then suddenly: Phil Collins is singing to you over the images being presented. His music is distinctive, as is his voice, and it's very unlike the sort of subtle shift into musical numbers explicitly described as being used in the interview about The Little Mermaid.
@@JosephDavies what's wrong with having a distinct music and voice over the animation? it's different, certainly, but i don't see how it follows that it's bad that's like saying the john wick trilogy is bad because keanu reeves is too recognizable lol
My dude, I respect the hell out of you. I do. Your videos are eye opening and enthralling. But you're going to talk about how Menken and Ashman brought Disney musicals back to a Broadway style, and you just breeze by Beauty and the Beast like that? Belle's opening song is the most stage theater moment I have ever witnessed rendered in ink. And you watch your mouth about Phil Collins and the Tarzan soundtrack. LOL But anyways man, I adore your work.
@@Ooshy Coco and inside out are actually from pixar. Pixar is the original 3d-animated source of disney. I wish they kept it like that and continued making the original style disney movies.
ayyXmomo The soundtrack sounds like a collection of great Phil Collins songs...but not really a true Disney soundtrack so much as a concept album that goes vaguely with a movie. I have to say that as a kid, Tarzan the movie didn't impact me that deeply because it felt more like a long music video with skits interspersed than a musical.
The soundtrack is incredibly meaningful if you can connect the lyrics to what's going on in the movie. The characters don't have to tell you "this is a terrible thing that's happened, something great is happening" which is very typical in shows/movies, there's a song, but it's MOVING. I can't tell you how many people feel a connection to you'll be in my heart and the whole scene because of the adoption aspect. The songs fit perfectly in the movie to me. Tarzan would never have made sense as a musical movie. It's really a matter of personal opinion. But IMO Tarzan seems almost like a semi-realistic portrayal of a regular movie. Normal movies have music that plays as the characters move, talk, etc music that signifies and adds to whatever is going on at the time, that's what Collins' songs did in Tarzan, IMO.
If anyone wants to learn more, Waking Sleeping Beauty is my favorite documentary about this whole time period of the company!! You can also find Howard Ashman's demos somewhere- I think I downloaded them on iTunes nearly eight years ago.
It's an _amazing_ documentary. I only wish it were longer! At this point, I'm hoping for another to fill in with more of the details that have come to light in the time since.
@@JosephDavies I understand Don Hahn has been working on a film about Howard that's been to some festivals, so maybe we'll see some more of *that* soon, at least! Very curious about what has come to light since-- Mayhaps I'm not as informed as I thought!
Small correction: While Secret of Nimh is a critically highly acclaimed movie, it wasn't a success upon release at all. Mostly due to distribution issues, plus, there was a lack of money for the necessary marketing.
Howard Ashman is a true lyrical genius and Alan Menken a musically gifted god. We owe them for alot of our wonderful childhood memories and the someday to be memories of our children.
Menken is such a genius!!! Like he makes Oscars for Disney! Although some of them were not him and I was shocked, like Randy Newman for Toy Story and the Lopez's for Frozen! But Alan Menken is seriously the one person I dream of meeting in this life to have a chat about his life and composing music comes from!
Alan Menken is such a legend. Literally wins 4 Oscars for the 4 first scores he makes. The living person with the most Oscars. He's not appreciated enough.
I agree with you. Phil Collins is a genius and he did amazing in those movies. I think what he should've said is that it stopped at Phil Collins because it was no longer a musical. But the songs are super nostalgic to me from Tarzan, Son of Man and I'm on my Way are my favorites. He should've worded better saying that musical took a break at Tarzan because it's the singer singing, not the characters.
He’s talking about the detachment that the songs not being sung by the characters (sung by Phil Collins) made, not that is bad music or anything like that. It ended the Renaissance. He has a really cool video about it.
Just slowed the video down to 0.25x to catch that Leitmotif text at 17:21, and now I think that might be my preferred way of watching Sideways content.
Dunno if anyone will ever see this, but if anyone's curious about the whole Bluth /animators leaving Disney fiasco, I highly suggest checking out Saberspark videos on it!
RIP Howard Ashman, you can feel how much he loves his work and how knowledgeable he is through his filmography. He’s singlehandedly responsible for the Disney Renaissance and for impacting countless childhood memories. He’s fantastic because he loves animation and music and storytelling and he brought an intelligence and attention to detail to all of his works that makes watching them over and over again so rewarding because these films have so many little nuances and Easter eggs that are little rewards to the audience for having paid attention.
Animation is so much about synchronization and hitting timing correctly that applying a musical formula to it helps keep the production tight. If sound is always on beat then you can animate to the beat and have that to depend on. The framecount especially dictates how many drawings you have to work with so having that dependable beat means you can work out the math. Check out Richard Williams's book The Animator's Survival Kit for his inside story on how Disney animators animated in the golden years. He was able to look over the shoulder of one or two of the nine old men and ask questions about the techniques they developed, many of which weren't ever taught to any other animators because no one ever thought to ask. A lot of the techniques were based around timing the characters' motions to sound and using sound timing to make the animation 'pop' further.
This channel is almost as underrated as Great Mouse Detective. Almost. Just being real though, this video is a better followup to Lindsey Ellis’ video on Robin Williams VS Disney/ Disney’s transition into emphasizing celebrity voice actors.
And there's even a small mention of Mr. Katzenberg once again completely failing to understand something and attempting to ruin it with his ignorance! After seeing Waking Sleeping Beauty, learning about his role in Robin's troubles, and reading about his behavior behind-the-scenes working on Star Trek: The Motion Picture in "The Fifty-Year Mission" books, it's a miracle Hollywood has survived this petty, petulant, hack of a producer being involved in so many projects.
"Extraordinary series of events" ? I'd love to see a Little Shop of Horrors video to clear all that up... (Also, who can resist Little Shop?) Love this channel, keep doing what you're doing!!!
The Little Mermaid is my favorite movie of all time. I feel it’s always overshadowed by Beauty and the Beast when people think of the Renaissance. Thank you for giving it the proper time in the spotlight and the respect it deserves!
A lot of stuff from Disney and Pixar feel very personal to me not only as a music major but just as a human being. Maybe not all people can relate to the characters they make which is why they prefer more general audience films from Dreamworks or Sony Animation but Disney Animation always manages to make films that feel timeless yet personal.
This certainly explains why a lot of childrens cartoons in the early 90s would suddenly break out into musical numbers, thanks so much for this video!🙏
Before watching the video, i just hope it is 20 minutes of him saying "actual nostalgia" really really slow. who am i kidding is probably going to have something to do with leitmotiffs
Phil Collins in "Tarzan" is... divisive. Apparently you either love his work on the film to death or you despise it with every fiber of your being. There's little to no in between. I'm on the former camp, though, of course. lol
@@XanderVJ Yeah, in terms of love-it-or-hate-it Marmite divisiveness, Phil Collins' Tarzan songs are the animated movie equivalent of Eric Serra's score for GoldenEye. However, the difference is that the latter soundtrack is good. ;)
i love Tarzan, my husband did a mother/ son dance to you'll be in my heart at our wedding, and i agree with sideways. Tarzan was a transition away from the musical style of the renaissance, which lead to films like Atlantis, emperor's new groove, treasure planet, brother bear, home on the range, all of which did poorly at the box office. just because you loved these movies doesn't mean they succeeded at the box office and that really started when disney started using music as background instead of for story telling. that's how Phil Collins ruined everything.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit is such an awesome movie! Phil Collins is an amazing composer and singer and his music is great. However, Disney Animated Musicals are just that - musicals. You don't have the narrator singing all the music in musicals. The *characters* sing the music in musicals. And that's why Phil Collins broke the formula - he was not a character in the movie, and yet he sang pretty much every song (except Trashing the Camp, which didn't really have any lyrics and didn't really feel important in they story anyway).
I still love the Tarzan soundtrack. I don't care if it wasn't what some people wanted. Phil gave a great soundtrack when he didn't need to. Plus Lion King has similar songs to the Tarzan soundtrack, but you don't hear people complain about that
@@theluffinater9470 I'm not saying it's not a great soundtrack. The songs are amazing. It's just that it breaks the musical formula. The Lion King had songs sung by the characters. The only songs not sung by characters are for a more... montage type transition or exposition. Even then, The Circle of Life gives the impression of being sung by all the animals gathering for the ceremony. He Lives in You is a weird song in that I can't actually pinpoint exactly who I think is singing it, but it does feel like it's coming from characters in the story and not a narrator - like it's Simba or Raffiki's inner voice or something? I haven't watched Lion King or listened to its soundtrack in... over a decade, so those are the only non-character songs I can think of.
I've been getting through my history of animation course for college and it's really quite amazing how intertwined the various time based art forms (dance, film, theatre, animation) are
I love how the answer is in the last 30 seconds but we need 20 minutes to understand it. This was so informative btw, Disney made me love musicals. Specially the I want songs, I find them very motivating when I need to work on something.
I'm glad you focused on Howard Ashman. He doesn't get enough credit for his genius. Also, I think it's funny that "Part of Your World" was a remake of "Somewhere That's Green" from Little Shop of Horrors.
Funny, considering that the Little Mermaid is what inspired Lin Manuel Miranda to be a songwriter and what would eventually involve him in the Little Mermaid remake
Learning that Howard Ashman was a closeted gay man makes a song like “Part of Your World” so much more personal and meaningful. It really makes you see how much this song comes from his personal struggles of feeling like you don’t belong in the world because society tells you you don’t.
There’s actually a documentary about Howard Ashman on Disney plus, and after listening to all the sad stuff in the documentary, the music playing during the credits is Howard Ashman singing Part of Your World. Needless to say, there was a puddle of tears on my lap.
Other commenters have already said it elsewhere but Tarzan was the beginning of when Disney movies stopped using music as programmatic devices purely for advancement of the plot. They were just... regular ol song numbers from that point on (see: Disney movies that came out in the following years).
I agree with you. Phil Collins is a genius and he did amazing in those movies. I think what he should've said is that it stopped at Phil Collins because it was no longer a musical. But the songs are super nostalgic to me from Tarzan, Son of Man and I'm on my Way are my favorites. He should've worded better saying that musical took a break at Tarzan because it's the singer singing, not the characters.
He's just exaggerating, Tarzan or Phil Collins didn't really ruin it. It was just a change, and all that happened after cannot be blamed on that one film. The audience had become less interested in the musicals after all those years of repeating the same pattern. Also Disney Pixar had made a huge success with Toy Story 1 and 2, and I suppose Bug's Life too. There was a lot more competition too at this point, with Dreamworks and others. Shrek alone probably shook the ground a lot when it came out in 2001, and Chicken Little really shows that Disney felt threathened by Dreamworks-humour in the 2000s. Also the musicals were kinda boring for many boys, and with Tarzan and following films they tried to cater more to boys than the sappy, romantic musicals did. So because of this and maybe more reasons that I haven't thought of, they did the logical thing at the time and changed the genre away from musicals because they kinda needed to in order to stay relevant. That's all they did. And it wasn't bad, just different. Still a very good film. And it didn't have to be the end of the era, that happened because of the circumstances of the market and technology, not Tarzan. What happened was the bosses gradually stopped caring about the drawing animators, and focused mostly on the new technology in Pixar and the new computer animation studios, which was the future and what competitors were doing. The old studio got lower budgets over time, but also more freedom to do whatever and not stick to the musical formula. So they made a lot of different films without the same nostalgia factor, until they were shut down after the Princess and the Frog, which seems to be a final homage to the old musicals. The computer animation, on the other hand, seems to have been a bit disoriented at first. What even is Chicken Little? And even Bolt and the Robinsons are very different from what you expected from Disney. They were more inspired by the new medium and the competitors than the old Disney classics. But they have since gotten closer to the Disney feeling. The 3d studio seem to make princess movies with the musical formula, and other films without, which makes a lot of sense when you think about it. They manage to provide content for those who want musicals and those who want other types of stories. It's the balance they probably tried to find with Tarzan. Sorry for the wall of text, I just find it so interesting. I grew up with all this happening and have a lot of thoughts about it.
OMG this video is amazing! As a Disney lover and a musical theater lover, this answered all of my questions. I was a music major in college and I took a history of american musical theater class, and one section was supposed to be on Disney: the Movical (movie musical), but we never got to it because we were too far behind. This was exactly what I wanted to know. We learned all about Rodgers and Hammerstein, and the I want song and I was so sad we had to cut out Disney. When I think of Disney movies I always think of the songs and the Little Mermaid is my favorite princess, but anything in the Disney Renaissance is amazing
Love this video! Very fascinating! I mean I would say Disney is more timeless than nostalgic but I love how you talk about how Disney music sounds timeless and how Disney has taken inspiration from musical theater for their films I think musical theater and Disney go hand-in-hand.
I'm watching this for the second time and Sideways saying, "Remember Howard Ashman because we're going to come back to him" is the understatement of the century.
Ooh, yes! Especially because, despite repeated rewatchings, I can't figure out what some of the leitmotifs are supposed to represent. Like, the music for Valjean's Soliloquy ("What have I done/sweet Jesus what have I done") gets used when a character is conflicted ("Who is this man/what sort of devil is he?"), but I CANNOT figure out what Empty Chairs at Empty Tables is supposed to mean outside of that song (like, it's what the Bishop uses in "there is wine here to revive you/here is bread to make you strong" BUT WHY???).
Here's an idea: Les Misérables doesn't use Leitmotifs. It just reuses its Pool of melodies for musical coherence. The melodies don't have a fixed meaning but get used where they fit the lyrics best. You can see this when you check out the original French concept albun where some songs and lyrics are completely switched around.
I was really interested to see where you'd take this video, because the title isn't really an easy question to answer. I think this gave me a lot of food for thought about how disney makes their music sound somehow more magical
My moms friend in college was the animator of grown up Pegasus in Hercules! I dunno if that's the entire reason I wanna be an animator now but it definitely helped!
anything is nostalgic if it gives you an emotional reaction to something that reminds you of your far past life that your life at that particular present time no longer "exists" so to speak. Old classic/Renaissance animated disney music is equally nostalgic for me like "The Neverending Story" theme song is, and "If We Hold on Together'" from Land Before Time, and "Somewhere Out There" from American Feivel, as well as the "Reading Rainbow" theme song. And it's not just songs from Movies/TV shows. Another nostalgic song for an example that hits me the way they do is Warren G's song Regulate.
Fuck yeah three Caballeros! I laughed and said "yes!" When you pulled up who framed Rodger rabbit. The thing with the discredited animators in the fox and the hound, you can see who animated what if you've got a trained eye, like how you're trained in music theory. Just compare the animation on baba yaga in Bartok the magnificent to widow Tweed. You'll notice one scene near the middle of act 1 where some faces and hand movements look the exact same. It's amazing. You tickled the animation nerd in me with this video. This was great fun to watch. So to clarify the story of how bluth left Disney was he was angry at how the company was treating animation. He kept trying to fix it from the inside, suggesting movies to make to bring back the golden age. Disney even today is notorious for how controlling they are with the films they make, you know this first hand. Some things never change, and the pressure is all on Disney to never fail. Secret of Nimh was to be a Disney movie but it was turned down! Hell rockadoodle was also a former Disney pitch turned bluth film. But yes with the production hell fox and the hound faced (it shows badly in the writing) bluth took his pencil and left. Did you know bluth was the animating direct for Elliot in Pete's dragon? Look at some of bluth's dragon and reptile designs and you'll see the resemblance in design. I'm done nerding now lol.
Just wanted to let you know, your video on the Superhero Theme was the straw that FINALLY got my mom to start learning the piano, as she had been saying she would since I started playing guitar some 10 years ago. So... Thanks for reuniting me with my mom, we had kinda drifted very much apart and her starting the piano gave us an opportunity to become friends again.
I think one of the single most underrated moments in Disney song history is having gospel music in Hercules. One of the biggest sins in Disney history, though, is not giving Hades a villain song.
I'm guessing Hades doesn't have a villain song because there's no way James Woods could sing. And that part was written specifically for Woods. As for the gospel, I've always been on the fence... I like gospel, not hating, but I've never been totally convinced it really fit the movie. It felt a little too much like Menken going back to his comfort zone and recycling Little Shop.
@@jasonblalock4429 my view is that the gospel music emulates the style of music in ancient Greek theatre- a chorus singing together to explain the plot
YES
TrueMohax New York City* Phil*
Kevin Pauly
Wow I haven’t seen that movie in a while if I’m making those errors. I’ve never been to New York before and I have heard the movie compared to Vegas so haven’t really thought about it any differently. New York makes sense, but it still was the main drawback of the film.
**talks for ten minutes about the backstory of one film, citing a complex set of events and taking the story back about 60 years**
"But wait. I've only been telling you _half_ of the story."
😄
And it was just before I thought they were going to start talking about the good films like Little Mermaid.
Duh that's why the video is 20 minutes long to tell you the other half
Sideways in a nutshell
"A guy so wealthy that his wikipedia page doesn't have a picture of him and instead just has his net worth" im dead
So is he
12:41 you are welcome
@@dongster529 thanks bro
I've heard it before, but Katzenberg wanting to remove "Part of Your World" bothers me so much. To me, that scene is the emotional core of the entire film.
AgentQV how dare he! That’s still my fav disney song
He wanted to cut the song because it was slower and had less imagery than others and he thought that young children wouldn’t sit through it, calling it a “wiggle moment”. I think that Howard Ashman refused to have the song removed from the movie because it would really help the story and help the audience understand Ariel more. They had some stuff about The Little Mermaid and Part of Your World in a documentary about Howard Ashman on Disney+. (Edit: it says a bit about it right near the end of the video).
Without Part Of Your World, the movie wouldn’t resonate nearly as deeply as it continues to do. IMO it’s one of the greatest I Want songs of all time. And Jodi Benson’s delivery - a master class.
@@shazza9975 That kinda is the emotional centerpiece I remember from the Little Mermaid... Even though I watched it when I was like 6 and can't remember anything else plotwise.^^
Just think how ridicioulous it would be to remove it... lots of 'kids'-movies have a strong element of "Longing for *something*", and that song just captures that so perfectly.
Well, he didn’t want to remove it just because. That person who got distracted during the preview of the movie made him doubt the song.
I wasn't paying attention at 13:51 and when Ariel sung "I wanna be-" my brain immediately filled in "-the very best".
Like no one ever waaass!!!!!
Ariel is a pokemon trainer.
You've cursed my ears now
@@pinkajou656 TO CATCH ‘EM ALL IS MY REAL TEST
@@Ballin4Vengeance to train them is my cause :)
*"THEY'RE LEITMOTIFS"*
You're getting subtler with your points, I see.
coffeestained Straigjt up though!! He doesn’t even have to say it anymore-- which means I’m LEARNING!
i was a bit worried he was an impostor before that showed up
you misspelled "propaganda" ;)
Are they leitmotifs or reminiscence motifs?
Have you ever thought of breaking down the music of “The Prince of Egypt?"
That would be great.
This comment needs more attention so he can see it. That movie and its music are both such underrated masterpieces
DigiSketch YES!!! There is the scene where Moses is sing/arguing with his brother during the plagues, that SONG IS MY LIFE
There can be miracles!!!
i absolutely love the prince of egypt this is a must!!!!
When people say Disney, I just think about that cursive D. I thought it looked pike a G for the longest time, I was so confused until like 9 when I really understood where the D is.
ＢＡＣＫＷＡＲＤＳ－ＧＩＳＮＥＹ
@@samwallaceart288 You wanna go to Backwards Gisney World?
Mine was different. I read it as disnep and was always confused on why it was spelled like that.
Alinity LOL that is equally great
@@ShadowTheLight i literally thught it was gisnep until i was 8. then it was gisney thankfully, i now know what it actually is.
Howard Ashman clearly loved his job. You can just see it in the Disney films he is apart of. I think he was the heart of Disney. After he sadly passed away, Disney became very ruthless in its money making. Don't get me wrong, the Disney renaissance is my childhood but I think Ashman and Menken were the dream team.
Howard was a visionary producer/director in much the same way Walt was, perhaps more so since he understood the technical elements of dramatic and theatrical story telling as well as the key role of music as an emotional vehicle. Had Howard not died there would have been another near decade of legendary films from Disney. He was the missing piece of the puzzle for their success after Walt's death. The ebb and flow of the company has hinged on that that type of genius and is often handed over to mediocre talents and suits who just want to squeeze profit for stock options.
@@praestant8 Wow... now I kinda wish I was in the reality where he didn't die.
Modern Disney is made with a message in mind, where as Ashman Disney was made with love. Nuff said
@Josh Dunne No. There was clearly a message in mind. Being THE MESSAGE Disney uses now.
Say what you want about Disney in the 1970s and early 1980s, but they did a lot of innovation. You think Walt would do children’s animated films forever? Ron Miller (Walt’s son-in-law) who served as a top executive in the company until he got fired by Roy E. Disney, recalled a time in the early 1960s where he saw “To Kill A Mockingbird” with Walt, and Walt said “That’s the kind of film I want to make.” I doubt it was the anti-racism message, and more of the dark tone it had. However, Walt never got to it due to the company having that reputation.
Throughout the 1970s, Miller got more and more power, and he finally put together the first PG movie in 1979 called “The Black Hole.” (Keep in mind, this was before PG-13 was a thing) Thought not the biggest hit, it made money, and it showed that Disney was ready to move in from kiddie movies, to more mature stuff. If it weren’t for Miller, “Tron” (One of the first movies to use CGI) probably would have never come out. He formed Touchstone Pictures in 1984 before he got fired, and it proved to be a moneymaker for Disney after he left. As “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?” “Good Morning Vietnam,” and “The Nightmare Before Christmas” just to name a few. Heck, Touchstone’s first movie “Splash” is the reason why “The Little Mermaid” almost never got made, and why Ariel is a redhead.
Couldn't agree more.
If Howard Ashman wouldn't have gotten sick and passed away I would have died to have him as the head of Disney's animation department😭 In my opinion he was the one who inherited the heart of what made Disney truly, fully special.
I really miss the choral singing in Disney movies. To me that swell of voices and the soul behind it have come to represent my personal relationship with the films and what they imparted to me over the years.
Might not fit with the general theme here, but today i read about Mulan, and how after "A girl worth fighting for" there is no singing anymore, and the huns in genral don't sing, unlike other disney villains. It's like with the depiction of war after "a girl worth fighting for" the real world has kinda caught up with the characters. I can't really replicate the amazing analysis in a few sentences but I hope you get the sentiment,
Makes sense. The first part of the "Military experience" for Mulan is very jokey, and it comes across more like she's joining a Frat House as opposed to a Military Unit. "Girl Worth Fighting For" is the "End of the Innocence" for Shang's Warriors, as they are hit with the very stark and sobering reality that war is not a game, It's not glorious. It's cruel and takes innocent lives. The "Girl Worth Fighting For" isn't their dream girl, It's the innocent women and children being slaughtered by The Huns. Also, the end of GWFF is when the film stops being a musical and becomes a dark action movie about War.
I can understand why the Huns don't have a villian song, they aren't the vain, campy Disney villain.
While there are no more musical numbers after GWFF, there is still music. IIRC, there is a musical callback to I'll Make A Man Out You" when the three guys crossdress to sneak into the palace at the end of the film.
@@jeangentry6656 yes exactly!
Holy shit. Is it possible to fall MORE in love with Mulan?
P.S. The trailer for the new one looks really good ❤
Kaley Hansen same I’m actually excited on the action scenes
Fun fact! Menken and Ashman called "Part of Your World" "Somewhere that's Wet" because of how similar it is to "Somewhere that's green" from Little Shop
Wouldn't it be Somewhere That's Dry?
Wouldn't it be Somewhere That's Dry? Although, water is not wet, so only land can be wet.
@@ALu-nq8rf I did not invent the nickname, though I see your point
@@ALu-nq8rf Water is not wet in 2019? Really? If something becomes wet by by being covered or saturated by water, that means water is wet. It is covered by and surrounded by other particles of water.
TreeTalk is fire burnt 🙈🙈
"Oh no I dropped my popcorn, I gotta clean this fast so I can keep watching this movie!"
Jeffery: *I JUST DON'T THINK THIS WORKING*
Presumably he didn't know that's why the popcorn dropped. The real lesson is not to make hasty generalizations based on little-known information.
Instantly subscribing now. I love how he’s the first person to talk about, even mention, Howard Ashman. True many acknowledge that he’s responsible for bringing Disney into its renaissance but I have yet to find anyone on RUclips to talk about him at length, let alone mention his tragic passing! Love this video good work.
Ronny Borrelli, if you have Disney + there’s a documentary, named Ashman that is entirely about his life and his work at Disney. Go check it out.
@@smashley4661 It was led by Don Hanh, another Disney legend. The fact that Disney greenlit a documentary about Ashman shows how much his work meant to the company.
2:48 this always irks me, Disney released the first ever AMERICAN animated feature length film. The first film was in Argentina over 20 years earlier and the German animated film "The Adventures of Prince Achmed" is the oldest suriving film from 1926.
Love the video, love anything that give Howard Ashman the love and admiration he deserves.
Didnt know this, thanks for point it out!
No-one remembers Achmed.
(I'm so sorry that's a Starkid reference.)
Haha there's a prince Achmed in Aladdin.
What's the Argentinian film called? I'd love to check it out if it's out there
@@maxdaae El Apóstol but it's been considered lost, I believe the studio that created them burned down.
The way you talk about music is so fascinating and wonderful to watch. Your videos are great man!
Same. Are we twin are some'in?
If you don't know about the guy, please check out Polyphonic, maybe you'll like his style too.
Yesss I’m mind blown 🤯
“When you think about disney, what’s the first thing that comes to mind?”
*GREED*
Nikx Neon 😂
Shows the lasting impact Eisner had
...thats true and so so sad!
Nah, that would be EA. Disney's getting close though.
JKAProductions1 I- 😂😂
jesus man you simultaneously sound so goddamn intelligent and make me, a lonesome bingewatcher, feel like i just unlocked my sixth sense and ultimately becoming the most enlightened creature in the universe. Ur a real gift to this platform...
Linnea hahaha
Same here
If anyone's curious the hidden frame @17:21 says "THEY'RE LEITMOTIFS"
Thanks! I didn’t even notice that, guess I blinked at the wrong time XD
I laughed when he introduces Howard Ashman in the video and says "Remember him because..." because I'm like "Remember him? I never forgot him".
R.I.P. Howard. Your talent, heart and passion is terribly, awfully missed.
The most underrated RUclips channel ever. Deserves centre stage.
@Leo McKinnon I kinda see you point.
Honestly the amount of subscribers he has for like 3 or 4 years you been doing this seems Sing like pretty fair subscriber numbers to me
I'd say that disney music is “timeless” rather than nostalgic
I think I'd say it's both :)
I wouldn't say it's timeless. I can definitely correlate the old films with the old days
@@Sophia-fk6km That's an excellent point. Nostalgic might be more appropriate in that sense, then. It's nostalgic to different people in different decades.
1:35 ? :)
@@autumnh2557
Indubitably.
Oh man, hearing you talk about Howard Ashman is a true gem. I always cry when I remember everything about him, we lost him way too soon, but at least his work lives on and will be loved for ever.
It truly is the saddest part of this video. Every moment with him on screen, the loss is felt.
@@JosephDavies I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt that way.
Me Too. Sideways should do a video entirely on Howard Ashman
Isabel Caballero it’s sad. I’d love to meet Alan Menken someday because he and Ashman essentially saved the Walt Disney company but from these videos you can tell that Menken focuses on the score and writing the music to make it so catchy and beloved, but Ashman crafted his lyrics by having a specific vision for the story, and influenced so many parts of each movie. I wish his time here was longer, so much longer.
I know this video is 3 years old but 17:30 just gave me actual chills. I've seen this movie a hundred times and listened to the soundtrack even more, NEVER realized that Ariel singing away her voice was the first melody from Part of Your World. God I miss Howard Ashman.
Anytime someone just starts discussing The Little Mermaid, I start to choke up and cry. Even more so when I hear the instrumentals. Especially the score for the opening of the film where the "camera" goes underwater and we see those merpeople in shadow. The Little Mermaid is my favorite Disney Princess film and every time I hear that track, I'm mentally two years old again on Christmas morning, curlers in my hair, I've just unwrapped my new Ariel Barbie doll, The Little Mermaid is playing on the TV beside the tree and I'm so excited with my new doll that when my mother asks me who it is with her knowing smile, I just start pointing at the TV while excitedly screaming "This is The Little Mermaid!" over and over again.
I'm kind of reduced to tears now. ;n;
That particular opening score also brings me back to the very first time I ever saw The Little Mermaid as well. I had just learned to walk so I grabbed it and put it into the VHS player on top of the TV in the front living room... I was interested because I had heard about merpeople somewhere and this film, although animated, seemed like it might teach me more about them. I remember sitting on the couch, jaw dropped, completely in awe the second I saw those first silhouetted merpeople. In my brain, I was like "Oh my god, there they are! Maybe they're real?!" despite knowing that the film was animated. I just assumed that almost anything that could be animated had to have been drawn from real life, so that's what made me first start to think merpeople were real. I also happen to have been born to a dad who has always been a professional fisherman. He used to tell me that no one knows just how deep the ocean really is, so we don't know 100% of what's out there. That gave me further hope and I hoped with all of my might that every day he went fishing, he might find a way for me to meet and talk to a merperson. Hopefully Ariel herself.
So in a way, because of this movie's existence, merpeople sort of became my first ever favorite mythical creature. I finally did get to meet the real Ariel, though. Jodi Benson. I was so excited that I was finally getting one of my childhood dreams when I met her and she was so nice!
I feel the same way towards Mulan, i have a deep emotional attach to that damn movie and the characters especially Mulan.
Your thoughts about the 'Main Titles' score echo mine completely. I even paused the video just to watch that clip again.
I literally broke the VHS tape of the little mermaid as a kid because once it was over I wanted it to be rewound and played all over again.
In conclusion, "Once they have a successful formula, they will repeat it again, and again, and again. It is always calling back to collective nostalgia on both animated and musical theater, but then it creates something new and brings it together".
You're welcome ;)
Yeah, right? But that's what so smart about Disney, you find a formula and keep working on it because doing the same thing over and over again and expect different is clearly a definition of crazy haha. Yet, when Disney try something new, people say "If it is not broken, don't fix it"( credit to cogsworth ) oh well. hahah
@@anacarone6690 I think the key is having a sense for when the formula is getting stale and to start shaking things up. So many attribute the Disney Renaissance in large part to Bluth leaving and forcing Disney's hand. They had to innovate or Bluth was going to continue stealing their thunder.
You're not going to have a competitor to force you to do this though. So that's when you really need a visionary who can see when the formula is reaching its natural peak (Law of Diminishing Returns and all that) and start to push for some changes to bring something fresh.
As an animator, this was so informative! Things that weren’t discussed in animation history
Pande
I want to be a future animator...I’m still in high school but what do you suggest I do to make my dream a reality?
I encourage you to try something else first
U have a reason to your opinion?
Do you really want to practice a profession that does not provide you with a fixed employment contract, fixed salary, health insurance, paid leave and retirement benefits? a job that depends fundamentally on your ability to create?
Ilyas Adam Ilyas Adam That’s up to the individual. Yes being an independent animator means it’s up to you to save toward retirement and find health insurance (in the United States at least, where it’s not universal). But that’s just like anyone else starting a small business. Which is what you do as an independent animator. It’s up to the individual to set their day rates based on their financial needs. It’s not something that happens overnight, you work toward it and if you’re successful it’s really rewarding to be your own boss. It’s the best time in history to be an independent creator, the number of platforms you can reach an audience on is endless.
If you’re fortunate to be a employed to a team at a studio, they have benefits provided like any other employer would.
Having a job relying on creating final products is a high-workload sometimes but if you have the skill and drive for it, it’s no different than grinding at any other job. It’s more work but it’s more fun.
A lot of animators go into teaching at colleges while either doing their independent work or while being employed at other studios. I had a professor who is a director at Ted Ed’s RUclips channel. I had a professor who worked for titmouse while teaching. I had a professor who was a Disney animator. I had a thesis advisor who was also a professor and works for BUCK studio. Hell the musician, Voltaire, taught stop-motion for a long time before they ended the department at that particular school. This was all at School of Visual Arts, one of the larger schools with animation on the east coast. There are countless private and public colleges with art and animation programs that need professors.
As artists, there are other fields that we can crawl into. Other side gigs to keep us sustained.
It might seem abnormal for the average person, we have the flexibility of being able to hop around if we want or need. All our work constantly building up our portfolios, constantly networking with new artists.
Networking is huge. The more people you’re connected to in the industry, the more likely someone will recommend you to fill a position when they have projects that require more hands. This industry is more reliant on your body of work and relationships with peers who want to work with you. You’re more likely to be hired through being recommended for the job by peers.
If you learn and understand how to navigate this different industry, there’s no reason you can’t find success.
It is so refreshing to see so much of the credit going to Howard Ashman.
Thank you so much for crediting Howard and The Little Mermaid so emphatically. He was a true revolutionary.
"when I say disney, what do you think of"
"Hello! I like money!"
I always think "Monopoly"
That scene of Elsa pulling her braided hair through her shoulder instead of over her shoulder irks me every time. LOL
He Was Fuzzy Wuzzy As someone who has hair longer than hers, pulling your braid out from your armpit is a normal occurrence 😆
@@heididavison816 LMAO 🤣 I'll bet it definitely feels like it!
Wow never realised that until now hahahaha
Thanks, I guess?
@@juavarela1673 You're welcome. Now you'll never be able to unsee it. Haha
Didn’t know Fox & the Hound and Rescuers did so poorly. I love them for nostalgic reasons. Still have them on VHS
The Rescuers was a major hit, as well as The Fox and the Hound. This guy is mainly talking about lasting impact on Disney today. When's the last time you saw anything from the 1970s and early 1980s stuff in Disney parks?
Michael Eisner, a.k.a, Lord Farquaad
Still nothing compared to stupidity of Bob iger, he is the Architect of all of disned current Problems, not chapek
The first feature-length animated film was actually Lottie Reiniger's "The Adventures of Prince Achmed" (1922). She did the whole thing with paper puppets she cut herself, it's incredible.
Well, technically, it was the oldest surviving animated film.
You could also mention how Disney was influenced by classical opera. Snow White especially is very operatic, the wishing well scene and song seem straight from an opera. The prince's song 'One Song', which is also the movie's theme, very operatic. Also, the young lady who voiced Snow White was a classically trained opera singer.
Finally someone acknowledges that Roger Rabbit began the Disney renaissance!
Only real ones know!! ❤️
Personally I really like aristocats, and I think all the characters are super cute!
Same I watched that movie all the time as a kid lol
Me too. I had a cat that I named Toulouse because of that movie.
plus the music is awesome, its my favourite disney movie
If I wasn't allergic to cats, I would've loved a little white cat like Marie. She's so cute!
I loved that movie. My favourite character was Marie
Me: I should probably go to bed
Sideways: Uploads
Me: Sleep can wait. Feed me Disney music analysis
Harry Price ***I don't need sleep, I need answers
Ashman’s decision to make Sebastian with a Caribbean accent won Menkan his first Oscar
both of them
Here’s some random food for thought:
What if Disney created the idea for “Ratatouille” back in the Disney Renaissance?
Just imagine what style it would have been
"...When Phil Collins ruined everything," I have never heard anyone say this about his work on both Tarzan and Brother Bear. I may not have a music degree or anything, but I personally think he did an amazing job with these movies.
Oddly enough, I've never heard anyone _defend_ his music in those films. It's good music, but it's jarring and doesn't suit the actual movies themselves.
You're watching the movie, immersed in its setting, and then suddenly: Phil Collins is singing to you over the images being presented. His music is distinctive, as is his voice, and it's very unlike the sort of subtle shift into musical numbers explicitly described as being used in the interview about The Little Mermaid.
@@JosephDavies what's wrong with having a distinct music and voice over the animation? it's different, certainly, but i don't see how it follows that it's bad
that's like saying the john wick trilogy is bad because keanu reeves is too recognizable lol
@@lounowell4171 Some people liked cohesion and immersion and some people were willing to discard that for novelty. It's a preference thing, I guess.
Thank you! Someone actually remembers Brother Bear and it’s music!
His songs are some of my favorite..
My dude, I respect the hell out of you. I do. Your videos are eye opening and enthralling. But you're going to talk about how Menken and Ashman brought Disney musicals back to a Broadway style, and you just breeze by Beauty and the Beast like that? Belle's opening song is the most stage theater moment I have ever witnessed rendered in ink. And you watch your mouth about Phil Collins and the Tarzan soundtrack. LOL But anyways man, I adore your work.
He didn't really breeze by it, his topic simply leads up to the movie that brought back the Disney formula.
i havent watched that movie
@@kingkylie9655 No one said you have.
Tarzan slaps
What is Disney today? Remakes.
Edit. Sequels too
DK Baller it makes me so upset :( that’s why I was so excited for Moana when it came out because it was the first original film in a long time
Moana? Coco? Zootopia? Inside Out? Ok...
@@Ooshy yeah good point
@@Ooshy Coco and inside out are actually from pixar.
Pixar is the original 3d-animated source of disney. I wish they kept it like that and continued making the original style disney movies.
@@granny435 It's Disney's Pixar. Same company. Same offices. Don't Disneysplain me.
youtube logo as a censor... Best, sarcasm, ever!
That little boy who was kind enough to want to clean up his little popcorn mess before continuing watching the film... that's so sweet.
Tarzan may have broken the formula, but it's a damn good soundtrack!!
ayyXmomo The soundtrack sounds like a collection of great Phil Collins songs...but not really a true Disney soundtrack so much as a concept album that goes vaguely with a movie. I have to say that as a kid, Tarzan the movie didn't impact me that deeply because it felt more like a long music video with skits interspersed than a musical.
I loved this soundtrack as a kid. It's nostalgic for me because I would play it on a road trip with Dad and he loved the songs too.
The soundtrack is incredibly meaningful if you can connect the lyrics to what's going on in the movie. The characters don't have to tell you "this is a terrible thing that's happened, something great is happening" which is very typical in shows/movies, there's a song, but it's MOVING. I can't tell you how many people feel a connection to you'll be in my heart and the whole scene because of the adoption aspect. The songs fit perfectly in the movie to me. Tarzan would never have made sense as a musical movie. It's really a matter of personal opinion. But IMO Tarzan seems almost like a semi-realistic portrayal of a regular movie. Normal movies have music that plays as the characters move, talk, etc music that signifies and adds to whatever is going on at the time, that's what Collins' songs did in Tarzan, IMO.
Phil Collins is awful
If anyone wants to learn more, Waking Sleeping Beauty is my favorite documentary about this whole time period of the company!! You can also find Howard Ashman's demos somewhere- I think I downloaded them on iTunes nearly eight years ago.
I highly recommend Waking Sleeping Beauty. It changed the way I think about the Disney Renaissance.
It's an _amazing_ documentary. I only wish it were longer! At this point, I'm hoping for another to fill in with more of the details that have come to light in the time since.
Where can one find the rest of that footage of Howard Ashman explaining classic Disney movies?
@@JosephDavies I understand Don Hahn has been working on a film about Howard that's been to some festivals, so maybe we'll see some more of *that* soon, at least! Very curious about what has come to light since-- Mayhaps I'm not as informed as I thought!
@@Thr3-Words I recall that if you purchase Waking Sleeping Beauty, it's all in the bonus features!!
Small correction: While Secret of Nimh is a critically highly acclaimed movie, it wasn't a success upon release at all. Mostly due to distribution issues, plus, there was a lack of money for the necessary marketing.
Phil Collins' songs from Tarzan are actually the most nostalgic for me even though I don't remember watching Tarzan that much lol
Howard Ashman is a true lyrical genius and Alan Menken a musically gifted god. We owe them for alot of our wonderful childhood memories and the someday to be memories of our children.
Well, it's really all about Menken... "You have to look at the Disney Renaissance"... Hardly a couple minutes in, and I'm not disappointed.
Menken is such a genius!!! Like he makes Oscars for Disney! Although some of them were not him and I was shocked, like Randy Newman for Toy Story and the Lopez's for Frozen! But Alan Menken is seriously the one person I dream of meeting in this life to have a chat about his life and composing music comes from!
And Howard Ashman too. You can’t forget his role even though it was limited to the start.
Alan Menken is such a legend. Literally wins 4 Oscars for the 4 first scores he makes. The living person with the most Oscars. He's not appreciated enough.
Hey! Phil Collins did a great job with the Tarzan Soundtrack! Great vid though
Scoob The Boob same for Brother bear
I agree with you. Phil Collins is a genius and he did amazing in those movies. I think what he should've said is that it stopped at Phil Collins because it was no longer a musical. But the songs are super nostalgic to me from Tarzan, Son of Man and I'm on my Way are my favorites. He should've worded better saying that musical took a break at Tarzan because it's the singer singing, not the characters.
Yes he did! Phil Collins is great!
He’s talking about the detachment that the songs not being sung by the characters (sung by Phil Collins) made, not that is bad music or anything like that. It ended the Renaissance. He has a really cool video about it.
Just slowed the video down to 0.25x to catch that Leitmotif text at 17:21, and now I think that might be my preferred way of watching Sideways content.
This needs more exposure.
@@vampiric13 Why thank you!
I've always found it amusing that the endings of 'Somewhere that's green' and 'part of your world' are literally exactly the same
OMG THEY ARE
Dunno if anyone will ever see this, but if anyone's curious about the whole Bluth /animators leaving Disney fiasco, I highly suggest checking out Saberspark videos on it!
The way Sideways talks about music sounds like how I'd imagine a dog would talk
Finally! I’ve had to rewatch all your videos waiting for a new one. You rock, man!
My takeaway from this video: I need to watch Little Shop of Horrors and rewatch Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
*nasally voice* "TWWWWOOO BIIIITTTSSS!"
If you’ve never seen Little Shop, you’re in for a huge treat.
RIP Howard Ashman, you can feel how much he loves his work and how knowledgeable he is through his filmography. He’s singlehandedly responsible for the Disney Renaissance and for impacting countless childhood memories. He’s fantastic because he loves animation and music and storytelling and he brought an intelligence and attention to detail to all of his works that makes watching them over and over again so rewarding because these films have so many little nuances and Easter eggs that are little rewards to the audience for having paid attention.
Animation is so much about synchronization and hitting timing correctly that applying a musical formula to it helps keep the production tight. If sound is always on beat then you can animate to the beat and have that to depend on. The framecount especially dictates how many drawings you have to work with so having that dependable beat means you can work out the math.
Check out Richard Williams's book The Animator's Survival Kit for his inside story on how Disney animators animated in the golden years. He was able to look over the shoulder of one or two of the nine old men and ask questions about the techniques they developed, many of which weren't ever taught to any other animators because no one ever thought to ask. A lot of the techniques were based around timing the characters' motions to sound and using sound timing to make the animation 'pop' further.
This channel is almost as underrated as Great Mouse Detective. Almost.
Just being real though, this video is a better followup to Lindsey Ellis’ video on Robin Williams VS Disney/ Disney’s transition into emphasizing celebrity voice actors.
And there's even a small mention of Mr. Katzenberg once again completely failing to understand something and attempting to ruin it with his ignorance!
After seeing Waking Sleeping Beauty, learning about his role in Robin's troubles, and reading about his behavior behind-the-scenes working on Star Trek: The Motion Picture in "The Fifty-Year Mission" books, it's a miracle Hollywood has survived this petty, petulant, hack of a producer being involved in so many projects.
"Extraordinary series of events" ? I'd love to see a Little Shop of Horrors video to clear all that up... (Also, who can resist Little Shop?)
Love this channel, keep doing what you're doing!!!
The resistance is led by dentists.
The Little Mermaid is my favorite movie of all time. I feel it’s always overshadowed by Beauty and the Beast when people think of the Renaissance. Thank you for giving it the proper time in the spotlight and the respect it deserves!
A lot of stuff from Disney and Pixar feel very personal to me not only as a music major but just as a human being. Maybe not all people can relate to the characters they make which is why they prefer more general audience films from Dreamworks or Sony Animation but Disney Animation always manages to make films that feel timeless yet personal.
This certainly explains why a lot of childrens cartoons in the early 90s would suddenly break out into musical numbers, thanks so much for this video!🙏
Before watching the video, i just hope it is 20 minutes of him saying "actual nostalgia" really really slow.
who am i kidding is probably going to have something to do with leitmotiffs
For those of you who also paused, the flash at 17:21 is "They're Leitmotif"
You lost me at "Phil Collins ruined everything", but I'll try to push through
That sentence had me angry at Sideways before the video had even properly begun.
Ya hahaha
Phil Collins in "Tarzan" is... divisive. Apparently you either love his work on the film to death or you despise it with every fiber of your being. There's little to no in between.
I'm on the former camp, though, of course. lol
@@XanderVJ Yeah, in terms of love-it-or-hate-it Marmite divisiveness, Phil Collins' Tarzan songs are the animated movie equivalent of Eric Serra's score for GoldenEye.
However, the difference is that the latter soundtrack is good. ;)
i love Tarzan, my husband did a mother/ son dance to you'll be in my heart at our wedding, and i agree with sideways. Tarzan was a transition away from the musical style of the renaissance, which lead to films like Atlantis, emperor's new groove, treasure planet, brother bear, home on the range, all of which did poorly at the box office.
just because you loved these movies doesn't mean they succeeded at the box office and that really started when disney started using music as background instead of for story telling. that's how Phil Collins ruined everything.
Growing up with them probably helps that we see their songs as so nostalgic.
Definitely. I grew up behind the Iron Curtain without Disney movies and for me, there's absolutely nothing nostalgic about them.
Man those were the days
Who Framed Roger Rabbit is such an awesome movie!
Phil Collins is an amazing composer and singer and his music is great. However, Disney Animated Musicals are just that - musicals. You don't have the narrator singing all the music in musicals. The *characters* sing the music in musicals. And that's why Phil Collins broke the formula - he was not a character in the movie, and yet he sang pretty much every song (except Trashing the Camp, which didn't really have any lyrics and didn't really feel important in they story anyway).
I still love the Tarzan soundtrack. I don't care if it wasn't what some people wanted. Phil gave a great soundtrack when he didn't need to. Plus Lion King has similar songs to the Tarzan soundtrack, but you don't hear people complain about that
@@theluffinater9470 I'm not saying it's not a great soundtrack. The songs are amazing. It's just that it breaks the musical formula.
The Lion King had songs sung by the characters. The only songs not sung by characters are for a more... montage type transition or exposition. Even then, The Circle of Life gives the impression of being sung by all the animals gathering for the ceremony. He Lives in You is a weird song in that I can't actually pinpoint exactly who I think is singing it, but it does feel like it's coming from characters in the story and not a narrator - like it's Simba or Raffiki's inner voice or something?
I haven't watched Lion King or listened to its soundtrack in... over a decade, so those are the only non-character songs I can think of.
I hear "Why don't do you right" and my brain instantly goes "Fallout"
SAME. Hope someone left a comment like this
Idk how this ended up on my recommended but I’m so glad it did
I love how when you said "The Fox And The Hound bombs," Copper gave us a confused look lol
I've been getting through my history of animation course for college and it's really quite amazing how intertwined the various time based art forms (dance, film, theatre, animation) are
"Old Man River" from Showboat gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.
I love that this video basically is "Why The Little Mermaid is awesome"
I love how the answer is in the last 30 seconds but we need 20 minutes to understand it. This was so informative btw, Disney made me love musicals. Specially the I want songs, I find them very motivating when I need to work on something.
Please make a video explaining how "Phil Collins ruined everything" because oh boy that is a brave statement to make
angie lemons it wasn’t a musical but a pop song
@angie : your glasses are lit!
:-p
I'm glad you focused on Howard Ashman. He doesn't get enough credit for his genius. Also, I think it's funny that "Part of Your World" was a remake of "Somewhere That's Green" from Little Shop of Horrors.
Yeah in fact a common joke BTS was calling POYW somewhere that’s dry😅
"I wanted him to be a Jamaican"
(So basically Caribbean)
*Lin Manuel Miranda entered the chat
Funny, considering that the Little Mermaid is what inspired Lin Manuel Miranda to be a songwriter and what would eventually involve him in the Little Mermaid remake
@@ezelfrancisco1349 wait, the what?
Sorry, I have a feeling that I've heard of this before, but my memory is fleeing me.
Learning that Howard Ashman was a closeted gay man makes a song like “Part of Your World” so much more personal and meaningful. It really makes you see how much this song comes from his personal struggles of feeling like you don’t belong in the world because society tells you you don’t.
You look exactly like Ariel.
There’s actually a documentary about Howard Ashman on Disney plus, and after listening to all the sad stuff in the documentary, the music playing during the credits is Howard Ashman singing Part of Your World. Needless to say, there was a puddle of tears on my lap.
He wasn't in the closet. Everyone knew he was a homosexual, but at the time, he kept his AIDS diagnosis secret, which is what you may be taking about.
Please in the name of all that is holy, where is the full video of that Howard Ashman speech/lecture!? I can't find it!!!
+++++ Yes. Please. I also have a need to watch. +++++
In your next video I want you to go on about how Phil Collins ruined it because I need to know *technically* why!
Other commenters have already said it elsewhere but Tarzan was the beginning of when Disney movies stopped using music as programmatic devices purely for advancement of the plot. They were just... regular ol song numbers from that point on (see: Disney movies that came out in the following years).
Honestly frozen ruined it
I agree with you. Phil Collins is a genius and he did amazing in those movies. I think what he should've said is that it stopped at Phil Collins because it was no longer a musical. But the songs are super nostalgic to me from Tarzan, Son of Man and I'm on my Way are my favorites. He should've worded better saying that musical took a break at Tarzan because it's the singer singing, not the characters.
@@paulalo8181how about Let it Go???
He's just exaggerating, Tarzan or Phil Collins didn't really ruin it. It was just a change, and all that happened after cannot be blamed on that one film. The audience had become less interested in the musicals after all those years of repeating the same pattern. Also Disney Pixar had made a huge success with Toy Story 1 and 2, and I suppose Bug's Life too. There was a lot more competition too at this point, with Dreamworks and others. Shrek alone probably shook the ground a lot when it came out in 2001, and Chicken Little really shows that Disney felt threathened by Dreamworks-humour in the 2000s. Also the musicals were kinda boring for many boys, and with Tarzan and following films they tried to cater more to boys than the sappy, romantic musicals did. So because of this and maybe more reasons that I haven't thought of, they did the logical thing at the time and changed the genre away from musicals because they kinda needed to in order to stay relevant. That's all they did. And it wasn't bad, just different. Still a very good film. And it didn't have to be the end of the era, that happened because of the circumstances of the market and technology, not Tarzan.
What happened was the bosses gradually stopped caring about the drawing animators, and focused mostly on the new technology in Pixar and the new computer animation studios, which was the future and what competitors were doing. The old studio got lower budgets over time, but also more freedom to do whatever and not stick to the musical formula. So they made a lot of different films without the same nostalgia factor, until they were shut down after the Princess and the Frog, which seems to be a final homage to the old musicals. The computer animation, on the other hand, seems to have been a bit disoriented at first. What even is Chicken Little? And even Bolt and the Robinsons are very different from what you expected from Disney. They were more inspired by the new medium and the competitors than the old Disney classics. But they have since gotten closer to the Disney feeling. The 3d studio seem to make princess movies with the musical formula, and other films without, which makes a lot of sense when you think about it. They manage to provide content for those who want musicals and those who want other types of stories. It's the balance they probably tried to find with Tarzan.
Sorry for the wall of text, I just find it so interesting. I grew up with all this happening and have a lot of thoughts about it.
OMG this video is amazing! As a Disney lover and a musical theater lover, this answered all of my questions. I was a music major in college and I took a history of american musical theater class, and one section was supposed to be on Disney: the Movical (movie musical), but we never got to it because we were too far behind. This was exactly what I wanted to know. We learned all about Rodgers and Hammerstein, and the I want song and I was so sad we had to cut out Disney. When I think of Disney movies I always think of the songs and the Little Mermaid is my favorite princess, but anything in the Disney Renaissance is amazing
Love this video! Very fascinating! I mean I would say Disney is more timeless than nostalgic but I love how you talk about how Disney music sounds timeless and how Disney has taken inspiration from musical theater for their films I think musical theater and Disney go hand-in-hand.
“I’ve only been telling you HALF the story…”
Me: gasp, DECEPTION!
I'm watching this for the second time and Sideways saying, "Remember Howard Ashman because we're going to come back to him" is the understatement of the century.
Hey, could you do a video on Le Mis? I just realized it uses leitmotifs up the wazoo.
Ooh, yes! Especially because, despite repeated rewatchings, I can't figure out what some of the leitmotifs are supposed to represent. Like, the music for Valjean's Soliloquy ("What have I done/sweet Jesus what have I done") gets used when a character is conflicted ("Who is this man/what sort of devil is he?"), but I CANNOT figure out what Empty Chairs at Empty Tables is supposed to mean outside of that song (like, it's what the Bishop uses in "there is wine here to revive you/here is bread to make you strong" BUT WHY???).
Throw this comment onto his patreon. It's where he looks for video suggestions. It's free to comment
@@mort0303 Thanks.
@@TheChargingCow I've always pronounced it as "Lay Miz-er-ab" 😀
Here's an idea: Les Misérables doesn't use Leitmotifs. It just reuses its Pool of melodies for musical coherence. The melodies don't have a fixed meaning but get used where they fit the lyrics best. You can see this when you check out the original French concept albun where some songs and lyrics are completely switched around.
I was really interested to see where you'd take this video, because the title isn't really an easy question to answer. I think this gave me a lot of food for thought about how disney makes their music sound somehow more magical
I totally saw that Who Framed Roger Rabbit bit coming. I was WAITING for it.
And you didn't disappoint. Bravo, sir.
My moms friend in college was the animator of grown up Pegasus in Hercules! I dunno if that's the entire reason I wanna be an animator now but it definitely helped!
the dedication it takes to make a video like this! keep doing what your doing man, great job👏🏻👏🏻
anything is nostalgic if it gives you an emotional reaction to something that reminds you of your far past life that your life at that particular present time no longer "exists" so to speak.
Old classic/Renaissance animated disney music is equally nostalgic for me like "The Neverending Story" theme song is, and "If We Hold on Together'" from Land Before Time, and "Somewhere Out There" from American Feivel, as well as the "Reading Rainbow" theme song.
And it's not just songs from Movies/TV shows. Another nostalgic song for an example that hits me the way they do is Warren G's song Regulate.
I love how deep you went into musical theater history. Love this channel.
Fuck yeah three Caballeros! I laughed and said "yes!" When you pulled up who framed Rodger rabbit. The thing with the discredited animators in the fox and the hound, you can see who animated what if you've got a trained eye, like how you're trained in music theory. Just compare the animation on baba yaga in Bartok the magnificent to widow Tweed. You'll notice one scene near the middle of act 1 where some faces and hand movements look the exact same. It's amazing. You tickled the animation nerd in me with this video. This was great fun to watch.
So to clarify the story of how bluth left Disney was he was angry at how the company was treating animation. He kept trying to fix it from the inside, suggesting movies to make to bring back the golden age. Disney even today is notorious for how controlling they are with the films they make, you know this first hand. Some things never change, and the pressure is all on Disney to never fail. Secret of Nimh was to be a Disney movie but it was turned down! Hell rockadoodle was also a former Disney pitch turned bluth film. But yes with the production hell fox and the hound faced (it shows badly in the writing) bluth took his pencil and left. Did you know bluth was the animating direct for Elliot in Pete's dragon? Look at some of bluth's dragon and reptile designs and you'll see the resemblance in design. I'm done nerding now lol.
Boi took 20 minutes to explain why disney is nolstalgic
Just wanted to let you know, your video on the Superhero Theme was the straw that FINALLY got my mom to start learning the piano, as she had been saying she would since I started playing guitar some 10 years ago. So... Thanks for reuniting me with my mom, we had kinda drifted very much apart and her starting the piano gave us an opportunity to become friends again.
“When you think about Disney, what’s the first thing that comes to mind?”
*SHINY!!!*
Miss your videos. Know you are dealing with stuff but wish for the best. I learn so much for you
God howard ashman was a legend. Still so upset that he left us.