Why the Music in The Rise of Skywalker Felt Misleading
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2020
- Yoda deserved better
Twitter: / sideways440
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I really cannot recommend this podcast enough, they go over EVERYTHING in (and everything that isn't in) TROS and they go into just so much detail about every aspect of the musical themes
Please go give them a listen
• Podcast | Meta Music O...
As always, Dr. Lehman's Star Wars Leitmotif Catalogue, even if you're a casual Star Wars fan you owe it to yourself to check it out
franklehman.com/starwars/
Just another great resource for the themes in TROS
www.filmmusicnotes.com/new-the... 
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They should've used the "lifting vehicles out of water" theme when Palpatine lifts the destroyer.
That sounds too non-evil... lol
Actually would have been a cool idea. Change key signatures, or use a retrograde of Yoda's theme, or something like that to link the two most powerful (arguably) and erudite force users in the movie universe, but still give the emperor a fitting a fitting music while it's happening.
And then Yoda forces puts it back down because now force ghosts can do stuff irl
@@TasX This.
When Obi Wan dies he cant use any powers to affect objects, but SUDDENLY, now ghost Luke is completely able to lift a whole x-wing. Its so wrong on so many levels.
Edit: Also realised from comments that this isnt the only case as Yoda also does something like this with lightning. Love the comments here.
The whole thing with ghosts should not exist in my mind either. Or at least it should bemore consistent. Either it is a ghost in the living persons mind or the atoms of the dead still have an effect on the force. The second would be brilliant but nah, they chose to let the ghosts do their own thing like some gods or something. I dont like it.
Lmao that would be hilarious
“We should use yoda’s theme”
“Is that a good idea”
“Yeah the fans will love it”
Basically the entire sequel trilogy
To quote sideways: don't tell me I'm responsible for this HOLY FU..
Remember what they said publicly when they first annonce the sequels??? "We wanna make these movies for the fans" - Kathleen Kennedy
@@snoopdoggydogg94 well that was bullshit
@@darth_home_invader3748 yup. Kennedy basically destroyed Lucas' legacy in so many ways.
"The force is female" and that kind of bullshit
*The fans hated it
Very upsetting fact: John Williams got nominated for Best Original Score for the sequels, but was completely snubbed for the prequels.
John Williams himself is a legend but the soundtrack for the sequel trilogy is hardly original
Yeah, that really sucks. Williams went hard in those movies, especially ROTS. Say what you want about the prequels but his work was amazing there.
Proof we don’t live in a meritocracy
@@Deathpool_04 Prequels had an *amazing* soundtrack. Duel of the Fates is probs my favourite score out of all the films
@@trevorbilliot2625 right cause the prequels are so original
Honestly, "Leia used the Force to let Han talk to Ben and she died because that drained her" actually makes sense. And it probably wasn't even what they intended.
Oh, it absolutely wasn't. The intent was that Leia used the force to just... turn Ben good again.
@@EnvyOmicron Force brain washing sounds like a sith power, Leia!
@CF I mean, she’s always more her father’s child than Luke was 😉
How do you run out of/overdose on the force? It’s not a matter of age or anything about the physical body since, as Yoda makes abundantly clear, “Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter”. The force is essential an ever-present primordial “soul energy” that represents life, fate, and peace. It’s also not a limited resource since every piece of training offered to the Jedi is about controlling and manipulating it, not expelling it and the only expulsion of power we see is force lightning. Like, what actually is Luke and Leía’s cause of death?
I honestly didn’t know that’s what it was, I always thought it was Kylo’s conscience and guilt from killing him that caused him to appear because Ben Solo was still inside him
Poor John Williams, man. I can just imagine him going into TFA and asking about Rey’s story so he can set things up in advance musically, and Disney just looks at him and shrugs
Well her theme does sound like Palpatine's
@@_vakas That was not a planned detail, her theme was made intentionally flexible so later they could decide what to do with her character
@@leightonpetty4817 Regardless, the concept of Rey Palpatine has existed since the development of TFA.
@@_vakas but just because it was an idea back then, doesn't mean it was the plan. The force awakens sets up a mystery behind Reys backstory, The last Jedi throws that out the window, and this one brings it back because JJ Abrams wanted to pay off on his mystery. she didn't have to be anyone, but they retconned it
@Ruosong Gao Daisy Ridley has come out about this. They wanted to tease that she could possibly be a Kenobi or a Palpatine, etc. But then they changed their minds and went with no one. Then JJ came in and wanted to change that. There was no clear direction on where they wanted to take her character's bloodline and you can find this interview with her online easily.
"Why the music in the Rise Of Skywalker felt misleading" Sideways said calmly.
Lol I see what you did there
I understood that reference
@@laufert7100 I understood that reference
@@codyy729 I understood that reference
@@neooblisk0084 I understood that reference
Every time he goes "huHMMMMMMM?!?!" He just sounds like a really frustrated Yoda, and I _love it._ It's like Yoda is channeling himself through Sideways and roasting the misuse of motifs.
Oh dude it's so funny, I thought he was going to reference it
There's a point where he makes that noise and Rey makes a face at the same time. Makes it look like she's making the noise.
Yoda always was a very patient and calm guy, but even him cant stand the sequel trilogy
I like that idea
Theory:
huHMMMMMMM?!?! is yodas leitmotif and Sideways is referencing that leitmotif by saying it
Rey doesn’t deserve the title of Skywalker. She still has all four limbs
The skywalkers seem to have a bad history with all their limbs, dont they
I thought this was going to be a serious comment, this is way better
Are we going to strip Shmi Skywalker of her name because she had all her limbs too?
@@Edax_Royeaux The difference is that Shmi was not a "main" Skywalker, Rey supposedly is
@@firmanchristiansianturi4794 Yet Leia, a main Skywalker, still has them
You can’t blame John Williams for the music in this movie, because he had to create music for a movie that didn’t even know its own plot
Yeah but he shouldn't have been nominated for an Oscar.
More that it was trying to carry three movies' worth of plot whilst not really having a story
And you know that John loves this series, and Disney just shafted him
@@jotarokujo7321 If I recall, he had intended to just do VII and step away, but loved writing music for Rey.
@@blokey8 Is that why someone else composed Rogue One and Solo? Or did he just sign on to do the main installments?
Dude, you miss the point. It’s not the force theme, it’s the HORSE theme. That’s while it plays when they’re riding space horses.
No, wait. FORCE is a synonym for POWER and when they ride the space horses it’s HORSEPOWER. It all fits!
The Force is a Horse, of course of course.
Such puns. Much wow.
Hah, those geniuses at disney knew from the start. They did plan this trilogy well after all
I'm now attempting to picture Horse Lightning...
Something that hit me after rewatching this video:
Not even Cats made Sideways as angry as this movie. What an accomplishment.
I think the time Hugh Jackman sang after spending like 2 days dehydrating himself did too.
Note: you generally die after 3-7 days without water.
….” *GENERALLY?!* “
Then he’s stupid.
You might not approve of a trash fire, but it's still better than setting the Mona Lisa on fire and making Da Vinci keep working on it while it burns.
@@jfarrar19If you can survive 7 days without water I'll be surprised
Pointing all this out to someone who didn’t realize all these mistakes, just makes the music extremely 4th wall breaking because you realize the music is used for the audience, not for the story. It’s almost perfect for the Disney trilogy because it’s the end goal they had in mind, like you said Disney was making movies in response to audience reaction. They only made movies to bring in the Star Wars nostalgia audience. Not to make a cohesive trilogy.
It's kind of amazing when a movie can show you what other, also not-great movies did better. Like, Godzilla: King of the Monsters uses variations of the original Akira Ifukube tracks, but at LEAST uses them in moments where they would make sense.
All thanks to JJ Abrams, the biggest repurposer that EVER lived!
That's a pretty good point. Even Williams says it in one of the clips, saying "the audience would love it" if the same music returns at that point. I haven't seen the last movie, but I listened to the music and I can pretty much agree with the videos title. It's incredibly bland. Accomplished - because John Williams is a master at his craft - but very uninspired all in all. I wonder how much of it was his choice compared to JJ Abrams choice.
i disagree, i do believe the trilogy has many mistakes how ever if you take away the memes from the prequels... the two trilogy's are equally as bad really, and i'm not even just an og trilogy fan i still love all these stories not to say some of them aren't very good. i think Disney's mistake with the sequel trilogy is evidence that they did want to make a cohesive trilogy but simply failed. that mistake was trying to get 3 different directors to take over each individual movie, they did originally want JJ to do all the movies but after he turned it down they settled on using 3 different directors to try and give each movie a different theme and feeling too it, at the core they really did try to make a meaningful trilogy... they just didn't do a good job.
Yeah. And the fans braying like donkeys every time Disney made any move probably had a lot to do with why IX was such an incoherent mess.
Rey: Buries Anakin’s lightsaber in the sand on Tatooine where he was enslaved and his mother died
Anakin: >:|
he hates sand
Also buries Leia's lightsaber on Tatooine, a place where she has never been.
@Sean Murphy
Actually she was in Return of the Jedi (Jabba‘s palace)
@@seanmurphy3430 she was there once and got roped into sex slavery. Worst vacation ever.
I don’t think Rey realized how many negative connotations Tatooine has for the Skywalker family :/
1. Anakin hates sand. It's course, rough and irritating. And it gets everywhere.
2. Anakin and his mother were enslaved there.
3. Shmi literally died on Tatooine.
4. Leia was forced into slavery.
-5. Luke's aunt and uncle died there (but it's not technically the planet's fault so I won't count it. )-
I get it. Tatooine means a lot and has a lot of sentimental value and is VERY ICONIC. But it's also a sh*thole in the middle of nowhere
Rey buried the SkyWalker lightsaber at the place Luke was trying to escape his whole life, in the thing that Anakin hated the most.
Burying an over used symbol, burying where we started in the sequel teilogy. With stuff we hated
Damn
Knowing that John Williams did a new take on Duel of the Fates and it is locked away for no one to hear to me is the fucking heart breaking.
why hire John Williams if you're just going to reduce his role down to music supervisor?
Its like hiring Anakin to supervise the elimination of the younglings. While a clone does it.
So his name can appear and Disney can say we got people who worked on the original on the new films
I think he does conduct the orchestra, but that’s not the same as writing the original music. It’s like getting Nick Glennie-Smith to conduct while the editor throws a bunch of Hans Zimmer discography into a blender moment by moment and the movie says “Hey guys! You remember the Remote Control Productions sound and love it so much, right??”
damn
More like a consultant tbh.
Calling him supervisor is a overstatement
Let's not forget, Han is said to be a memory but he's got a beard that we never see him with, meaning Kylo just imagined his dad with a beard for some reason
Bevan Kelly meaning harrison ford didnt even care to shave to go film this lol
Maybe when Ben was a little kid Han had a beard. It was his happier times Dad look
@@ala-lash3710 maybe, but he doesn't look younger. I never thought I'd put so much thought into a beard in my life
@@B---tw3kh He actually does have a beard in Battlefront II, so it's possible. Still an odd choice.
@@ArtofLunatik this is a star wars film you can't think logically
I never realized that the Force theme was originally meant to be Obi-Wan's theme, but now it makes complete sense hearing it played in RotJ when Vader tells Luke, "Obi-Wan has taught you well."
This guy did a better job of telling me why the yoda music matters than the movie telling me why or how palpatine came back
That’s because the film hand waved it so it wouldn’t have to. That’s the entire reason for that awful throw away line quoting the prequels. Sideways is actually taking time while the sequels just say, “Fuck it, whatever.”
because they needed to steal more from the Dune books with cloning
Cloning, I guess. Basically the same way he returned in Legends.
@@anaveragegamingchannel1843 Except Legends had plenty of effort put into it.
And he did not have to write a whole comic series
This movie doesn’t care about leitmotifs and meanings it cares about music sounding cool and nostalgic.
That's this ENTIRE trilogy now.
That's what worried me about TFA and what vindicated me when I watched TROS.
It also doesn't care about character, plot, tension, story structure, or anything else that makes a movie worthwhile.
Correction: It cares about money.
Clarification: The original trilogy only cared about EARNING money; the new trilogy only cares about money itself, in the abstract, devoid of any method of obtaining it.
Wheres the quote from Disney's ceo saying that he only cares about money again?
Of course the two black people just so happen to be related, out of all the trillions of people in the Galaxy.
Jack Stuhley Bruh this had me wheezin
I mean at least all the white people are too in this franchise
So much for diversity
@@hoppareiter next time we see a hispanic character it'll be Poe's family
*Watch as Mace Windu is also somehow related too.*
To be fair, Lando is the Star Wars character who's the most likely to have a secret child...
Or 2
Idk, Chewbacca wouldn't surprise me either 😳
The end of the film screams the writers wanted Rey to be the secret Luke/Leia Skywalker child. 🤣
@@sephikong8323 Chewbacca's child is a secret in the way that no one wants to acknowledge the Star Wars Holiday Special
@@adriannespring8598 HAHAHAHA!!!!!
17:44 This, to me, makes it seem haunting. Vader died on the Death Star, and this theme plays. Rey finds the Emperor's Throne Room, and this plays. It makes it seem like the place is haunted, not by Anakin's ghost, but by memories. Like you shouldn't be there.
Or they just pulled it out their ass, idk.
Delete this comment before one of the top dogs at Disney sees it and retcons it in XD
@@shiffpup2529 oh noooooo they’ll retcon it to be better than it was beforeeeeee
Literally the only thing I even somewhat liked about the movie on my most recent watch through, I thought it fit perfectly for both situations, despite how garbage the rest of the movie was.
I had a similar idea, that they could feel echoes of what had happened in the Force, and the music was used to make the audience feel it too.
Sorry to be late to the party but I thought that they could simply use a new version of the imperial march that would show of how the empire is a shadow of its former self rather than a callback to Vader specifically. Something like a singular horn playing the theme with low violins to showcase how weak the empire itself is now compared to the bigger threat which is the first order.
I'm sure John Williams is really happy he specifically wrote a theme for lifting vehicles out of the water.
X wings lifting, if it was generally about vehicles then it would be played during the palpatines star destroyer lifting
Maybe hes mostly happy about the people are talking theme. YOu can never have enough of these themes XD
Should be on the back of every car as they are backing out.
They should have played the theme from Cloud City when Lando appeared, or, for more "consistency" his theme from Solo, if there was any I can't remember.
That's the American Dream
As someone who actively avoids this movie, finding out that they use the music for the death star explosion as the climax to a generic chase scene is beyond frustrating.
agreed, I have watched this film basically by watching reviews and it makes me happy knowing I didn't pay for it
fuck Disney
Dark O-man oh boohoo
I remember walking out of the theatre and telling my little brother, "that was such a missed opportunity for Duel of Fates in the weird ritual arena scene." He disagreed.
This video has validated me.
Nah breh that "Luke and Leia's Theme" is now the "Ambiguously incestuous flirting theme"
There is nothing ambiguous about that.
But they weren't flirting. That's blatant scene manipulation. They were talking about their pasts. Luke and Leia's Theme was first heard after the revelation that they were siblings, mind you, so it's not the "Ambiguously incestuous flirting theme" in any way shape or form, not now, not ever.
@@Oturan20 Nor incestuous.
@@imfsresidentotaku9699 yeah you’re right
This video has shown me new ways to dislike this movie
Every single day I learn something new that's wrong with it. It's been six months and yet I still find new things
And I thank him for it.
i know right haha after watching endless videos i thought i couldn't find anymore but
Cool I disagree with this video and I love the movie even more
@@orbaitv5991 Deaf people still love the movies.
“It was the editors, not John Williams”. This movie seemed to be chopped and changed so much even the actors were surprised that that was it.
I know John Boyega and Oscar Isaac were mad that Disney didn’t let Finpo happen
Hashtag Release the Abrams Cut.
Actually that's probably what this is, so that joke doesn't work.
@@epicremarc Actually John Boyega said he wanted Jannah and Finn together on his twitter. He said hes actually not a FinnPoe shipper :(
@@epicremarc "mad" is an overstatement
Even JJ didn’t know this was gonna be the final cut
"Stealing the emotional weight" of something else is JJ Abrams whole style of filmmaking.
Alternate title: Sideways looses his sanity for just under half an hour
I got legitimately angry just now when you got to the “Luke and Leia” theme bit. I didn’t even realize they were using that song when Lando talked to Janna. That song is gorgeous and it’s supposed to be only for Luke and Leia (or have an actual reason for any other scenes). Ughhhh I hate this film even more lol
I felt the same way, I hadn't realized it either, and it genuinely made me so upset.
THATSS HER NAME?? I TOTALLY FORGOT
Yeah, not many people realised it because its so sublte..
BUT NOPE!!! WE BETTER RUIN THAT
i gotta admit nothing surprises me anymore but i did burst out laughing when he didn't know Janna's name n said "when huh huh and Lando talked"
@@thatkeyboardgirlsha3442 yeah lol no-one really remembered her name because she was just
IRRELEVANT
So we have:
“The epic space scene theme”
“The people talking theme”
“The scene where the X-wing gets forced out of water theme”
“The imperial March but a little sweeter sounding theme”
“The leia talking to someone theme”
Thanks! I hate it!
@Lord Chuffnell hey man you kind of accidentally commented your bait in my replies instead of the actual comment section
@Lord Chuffnell that you're a ponce who signs their comments in an attempt to sound prestigious, but just making yourself look like a tit?
@@dougthedonkey1805 Yeah, but no, leitmotifs mean something to the characters they are meant to represent and while they can re-contextualize over time. Using them haphazardly for the 9th movie in a 4 decade long musical tapestry to "Symbolize a quality", might both diminish their meaning and subconsciously confuse an audience. This kind of re-contextualizing is basically musical pandering and is a cheap trick to evoke an emotional response from the audience in the same vein of killing off characters but also they are alive in the next scene.
@@mothichorror446 he is joking. What he has written is obviously a farce.
Man that new version of "Duel of the Fates" is the only thing in the entire soundtrack that sounds cool, epic, haunting at the same time. Sadly, we'll never get to hear it at its full glory
I agree. I wasn't even aware there was a new version. Now I'm consumed...
"THE HORCRUX, THE FLUX CAPACITOR, THE THINGY"
I have never heard Sideways get this angry, I'm scared...
It's soooooo hilarious! I was laughing the WHOLE TIME!
LOVE IT
He said “this is the WORST SOUNDTRACK for this WHOLE SERIES” and I sat straight up and went “oooo”
I am simultaneously laughing constantly and also very angry all the time.
I mean I dunno he kinda lost it when talking about the disney remakes lol
I love how angry he is in this video. I love the rage because this movie is so shitty it deserves it.
He’s been on quite the rampage in recent videos lol
Sounds like he's taking a gluten dump. Williams did what he could trying to translate this narrative mess.
The Last Jedi is worse.
Not really the movie is ok
@@orbaitv5991 no, it shit on the entire story
Sideways: “Rey being a Palpatine”
Subtitles: “raping a Palpatine”
Thats what i heard too
THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME TOO LMAO
@@cintiavargas6617 Same
So that's how he had kids
@@drawnwithlove3499 brooooooo
I'm sensing a lot of similarities between the modern Star Wars trilogy and the modern The Hobbit trilogy - mainly in re-using thematic music in the wrong places. Lindsay Ellis did a really good set of videos about The Hobbit, and how they used the Nazgul's theme from the LOTR movies as Azog's theme in The Hobbit, and how weird that choice was.
"Why does it hurt so much?"
"Because it was real."
Except likening the Sequel Trilogy to The Hobbit Trilogy is an undeserved COMPLIMENT to the Sequel Trilogy.
That isn't to say they misused themes from The Lord of the Rings at weird places, but The Hobbit's negative impact on The Lord of the Rings is practically nonexistent. Can't say the same for how the ST retroactively damages the six George Lucas Star Wars films.
@@oscarstainton Respectfully disagree that the Hobbit trilogy didn't negatively impact the Lord of the Rings saga, at least for me. I didn't finish the Hobbit trilogy and won't go back. Peter Jackson doesn't know when to stop himself sometimes, and lets scenes and stories get dragged on much too long, much like what he did with King Kong. But this comment has nothing to do with musical analysis, so carry on.
Then I feel truly sorry for you. Our differences of opinion cannot be helped.
I don't like the Disney ST, especially for what they did to the story of Star Wars, but I don't consider them part of my personal Star Wars canon anyway, so that keeps them from harming my enjoyment of the franchise.
I’ve actually learned to like the Hobbit films for what they are and I really like the score for those films, especially the Leitmotiv for the Dwarf Company and for Smaug, which are used from beginning to end consistently. That moment where they used the Nazgûl leitmotif incorrectly still very much annoys me though
No, it's not the "Luke and Leia-theme", it's now the "Possible Incest-theme". It worked in two trilogies.
Fic Skull 😂😂
bam this is it fr
Its the sweet home alabama of star wars
Sweet Home Alderaana
That ending in general was just so fucking pathetic, the pure steaming pile of corporate garbage, perfect summary for today's Hollywood. Forced pandering to fans that hate being served forced pandering (the medal for Chewie, a character that was 100% useless to anything in this trilogy)? Check. In your face lesbian licking to blackmail Tumblr girls into rallying behind this movie on Twitter even if they hate everything else about it, but brief enough so China won't pull it on release? Check. Shoehorning one final thing to do for another pointless character added at the last moment that ended up generating incest memes instead? Check.
Tbh this trilogy made me appreciate the prequels more, because while they were a mess they at least told a proper story together. Each sequel movie had its own plot with no over arching story linking them together. Agh im-
The prequels still had a bit of trouble with it - but not to the same extent. The issue mostly affected the villains:
Episode I: Introduces Maul, dies in the end
Episode II: Introduces Dooku, dies right-at-the-start of the next movie
Episode III: Introduces Grievous, dies in the end
@@Mega-Brick I feel as if this worked quite well though with obi wan slicing maul in half created a great narrative between these 2 characters through other sources such as clone wars, dooku had to die to push a long anakins descent and his readiness to obey Palpatine. As for grievous theres not much I can argue with him tbh slightly unnecessary but I guess it gave obi wan an arc in the 3rd film..
It's strange that we, as human beings, can just instinctively tell when something is made out of love and when it's made out of greed. Almost no one can describe it exactly, but somehow we all feel that the sequel trilogy is superficial. For all its flaws, the prequel trilogy is at least very genuine.
@@adamlazenby1696 All of that was made years after the prequels ended though
And that story was actually planned, and it feels so seamless going from one film to the next
It’s such a shame that John Williams had put together an amazing score, but JJ just told him to play the force theme 50 times
This movie is so bad that people can make 20+ min long analyses of it JUST ripping apart how they messed up the MUSIC.
Like... holy yikes. Is there a Guiness World Record for Biggest Biblical Fuckup?
if there is, this film holds it.
@@TheMightyTyrantrum Nah, TLJ holds it. Or at least the entire sequel trilogy. For as bad as this movie was and for as bad as the first of the sequels was, when the middle film in your trilogy utterly fucks everything up, it's hard to recover it for the finale. I mean, this movie was never going to be good, but I still think TLJ was the cyanide pill. It went from a bad trilogy to a terrible one.
@@pagatryx5451 tlj salvaged all the broken pieces tfa left behind
then they gave it back to jj to ruin again
I mean Rise of the Fallen was written in only a few weeks, and The Justice League needed two extra hours to be tolerable, so I think Rise of Skywalker has competition.
I like that: Biggest Biblical Fuckup
"Oh no we are losing"
"Wait we are going to win"
"How do you know"
"Because I have a feeling"
"Oh ok"
"We won"
"Oh ok"
The entire sequel trilogy in a nutshell.
Oh ok.
"We could be good'
"But we're not"
I have a feeling...
...
...
...
...that tonight's gonna be a good good night!
"Oh wow I have forc- nevermind"
The entire episode 9
But without the prequels we would’ve never gotten the Star Wars The Clone Wars show
Checkmate
They recorded a *brand-new* version of Duel of the fates and they DIDNT PUT IT IN THE MOVIE. *WHAT* *THE* *HELL*
Trevor Turner shhh, you can only use copious amounts of stuff from the og trilogy dummy, no one cares about prequel stuff. Just put in Luke’s theme again, it will be fine. I promise. Even if Duel of the Fates is contextually appropriate.
Probably for the better, there were no good duals in rise of skywalker. I would even say there are NO good duals in the whole sequel trilogy. The Luke vs Kylo dual was decently good imo.
the whole moive is a rush job... they don't care about anything at all.... that why i don't go...
Really ? Where can we find it ? :o
The Kylo vs Luke scene is the only good scene in the trilogy
I hated how they literally just reused audio for the score of the sequel movies.... remember the prequels where 80% of the music was uniquely written for those movies...
Like why couldn't we have another dual of the fates for these movies...
Or atleast some of the weaker music from ep 3
I can imagine the editors just sketching over Williams' work: "Nostalgic theme," "emotional theme," "evil theme." 😆🤦
"Ewan McGregor dies here in the first film"
**Cries in Alec Guinness**
omg yes I noticed this too haha
Sir Alec Guinness: "I won a bloody Oscar for Bridge on the River Kwai, but everyone wants to remember me for some fairy tale rubbish? Let the Scotsman have it."
Don't be dissing my boi Alec like that. You best recognize son!
Sebastian Shaw: At least they didn't digitally replace you with your younger actor counterpart in Return of the Jedi.
@@watchm4ker to be fair, Ewan McGregor thought being in Star Wars was pretty shit too. Considering he's one of the few good performances in the hot dumpster fire that are the prequels, i can understand that
"This is a bad film that is bad and not very good"
Only bold statements on this channel
This film's bad... and that is good.
This film will never be good, and that's not bad.
@@a-s-greig there's everybody it would rather be.. than it.
True*
True statements*
The sky is blue. Water is wet. The Rise of Skywalker is a bad film.
Not very bold statements.
It's literally not even a bold statement
It's just facts
I think when Rey was communicating with all the Jedi the Rey’s theme should have played WITH the force theme. This would have made a bigger effect by showing how Jedi are all collaborating with Rey now to help her defeat the emperor.
This just adds another layer to why not planning stuff out screws everything up
It just makes me want to cry every time i think about it.
Wait, are you saying the most famous theme in Star Wars... WAS ACTUALLY MY THEME ALL ALONG??!!!"
I'VE BEEN ROBBED! WHERE ARE MY ROYALTY CHECKS??!!
Ohhhh shiiiiit
Fadlan Irwan General Kenobi! You are a bold one. Except I’m not the droid you’re looking for.
@@primalaspid2843 when heaven (obiwan) and hell (bastard fly aspid) meet
@Obi-Wan Kenobi They mailed you your ghost checks last week.
And my theme? Look how they massacred my boy.
The Binary Sunset was always "impactful". It is full of longing and even regret for past life choices. I first heard it in 1977, when I was 20 years old. This one scene was the one I remembered most intensely after that first June midnight viewing, and which retained its meaning after the thirtieth viewing in November.
To me, it will always be "My Mother Is Dying".
I’m ok with movies that try to subvert your expectations. I’m not ok with movies that throw your theories at you in a haphazard mish-mash of nostalgia.
anakin: i dont like sand rey: BURIES ANAKINS SABER IN SAND
Anakin's force ghost: 😑😑😑😑😑
@@orimengu Anakin is probably so dissapointed in her
That was one of the idiotic things ever in that movie
Ray: [Looks out to the twin suns]
Anakin's force ghost: Son of a-
[Cut to credits]
@@FatPigInTheHouse wait a second, if Luke can grab a lightsaber as a Force ghost, and lift an X-wing... Can Anakin lift his lightsaber out of the sand?
And he kills Rey?
This is now my canon ending lmao
Dear Disney, please release the 3 hours of music that John recorded. Don’t just waste it, please.
How about: Dear Disney, please use your limitless money to make good movies?
Seriously tho, it would be a waste of music that could probably be comparable to someone getting the original score for like Beethoven and thanos snapping it
There's a petition for it: www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-release-the-complete-soundtracks-from-the-star-wars-episodes-by-john-williams-on-cd
#ReleaseTheWilliamsCut
@@PerfectTangent last I checked, Disney was at least $11 billion in debt and needed to take short-term loans to pay the rent thanks to COVID-19 basically screwing over literally their entire business
They should release the “John Williams Music Edition” that would get a much better response
No cause it would still be a shit movie, it'd just be a shit movie with a better score
Understanding why themes gain and lose meaning makes me all the happier that John Williams gave Obi Wan Kenobi a new theme before he retired.
"I actually didn't hate this film at first" is about how I felt about it, too. Then I started talking to my roommate about it and analyzing it. It was a decent watch the first time around, but every second I spend thinking about it after that just reveals more about it that I don't enjoy when I'm not staring it full in the face with my rose-tinted nostalgia goggles and childhood wonder of "STAR WARS STAR WARS STAR WARS" keeping me in the moment.
That's how I felt about Last Jedi.
Didn't hate it, and even liked a few key contentious things. At first.
But stepping back to look at the film as part of a whole, well, it made me skip this movie and Solo, so . . .
@@ZapDash That is basically the ST in a nutshel. TFA is no different. It's cashing in on being ANH with a different coat of paint.
so a lot of people go through that and the reason is because of the ridiculously bad pacing of the film, the visual pleasure, the explosive story, etc. there's so freaking much going on in this film along with the horribly bad pacing, that you don't get a second to process how bad the movie is until it's over. (probably designed this way on purpose so we don't leave the theater mid-film lol)
You should watch "XXX" and the "Fast and Furious" films. Those are right up your brainless alley.
That is so accurate, exactly how I felt about Last Jedi too
I actually liked Rey’s theme in the first movie, when she was living her life at the beginning.
But they never again used it effectively.
How so? They use it all the time for Rey, like when she’s fighting the Praetorian guards, Training in Ajan Kloss and when she reaches out in the force, as said in this video.
@@ReySkywalker2 Exactly. I don't understand the hate these films
@@techno639 oh poor boy "I don't understand bla bla bla"
@@ReySkywalker2 they didn't
@@ReySkywalker2 praetorian guards? Ajan kloss? Im sorry but is this a joke?
In my rather horrible and completely ineptly-taught music and movies class that I just finished (and PAID FOR I'm so mad) we were forced to sit through this movie. I learned nothing. You know where I learned anything about the use of music in movies as evidenced by Rise of Skywalker? This video. I learned more in the last half hour than I did in 4 hours of a university course I paid for. You are doing a good thing and I am grateful to you.
My high school band director taught a similar class, and I bet he did better. I feel so sorry for you.
Sadly, Stormtroopers were never treated as a joke in the OT. The expanded universe kinda did it a little, but it was just memes and now writers view them as jokes to use instead of badasses.
Literally every moment in the first two films of stormtroopers appearing to have awful aim was when they were under orders to let people escape or to capture them alive. Hell, on Bespin one nails the wall an inch or so away from Chewbacca's face.
Outside of those "hero" moments, they wipe the floor with the enemy. They were winning Endor until Chewbacca stole the AT-ST and their walker support got wiped out.
They hit their head on a door and Lucas even added sound effects to that and had Jango do it too.
Gotta love how this movie is literally just the embodiment of “HEy gUys, reMemBEr tHIS??!”
The entire trilogy is just "Hey, remember that thing that was much better than this thing?
Definitely. I should have seen 1917, but curse other human beings for their subjective opinions. Despite my distaste for TLJ at least it didn’t play everything safe and bring people back to life in under 5 minutes. It was bold. This film bored me so much. It’s mighty sad I’ve been going to Star Wars movies enough to eventually find a couple of them boring. At least Rogue One was decent
I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT
@@bluesolace9052 I boycotted this film and so glad I did.
That’s good
This video: Teenage nerd Dipper Pines yelling at a terrible movie for 27 minutes
Accurate.
Oh wow🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great...now I can't unhear Dipper in his voice
Welp, Sideways is now Dipper Pines to me.
Holy shit he sounds exactly like an older Dipper
I think a big part in why the scores of both the prequel trilogy and original trilogy were so good was the fact that Lucas constantly talked to William's and was involved with their creations. He would literally go to Williams and say "I have this scene, I want the music to impart this emotion/ I want it to sound like this" (hell, William's wanted to cut the chanting in duel of the fates, but Lucas insisted he kept it in)
"I TOLD YOU SO" got me cackling alone in my room at 2am
Disney “lEt tHE PaSt diE”
Also Disney “Hey remember the past, now give us money”
“Also.. screw the good Star Wars”
Disney: We made a star wars trilogy, that means it's canon right?
All Star wars fans: The ability to make a "star wars trilogy" does not make it canon.
Also, does anyone feel like Disney has it, but doesn't know what made it special, nor the lore
You know that that's the villain saying that, right?
It's not what the Last Jedi was about.
let the past die but these movies keep trying to bring more things in from the old
@@nachoolo I hate how people have adopted that as what TLJ was trying to say, when it wasn't at all. The movie was about despite how flawed the past may be, it still has value. That lesson is personified in Luke, who believes he has no place in the galaxy after his mistake, but then learns that he can still give it something. That sometimes legends, no matter how glorified, can inspire the people who need it most. Too bad Disney took the helm and tried to overcorrect due to fan backlash. I read Trevorrow's script, and while it's a bit messy (as to be expected from an early draft), it's LEAGUES better than what we got, and actually makes this trilogy feel cohesive. It recontextualizes the repetitious nature of TFA as a cycle, one that must be broken in order to truly bring peace. It has a lot more finality and weight behind it, and it's a god damned tragedy that it was never made.
The Star Wars franchise is one of the greatest artistic tragedies of a generation.
And _so_ lucrative...
More like 3 generations
@Dennis Potts okay fine! The Sequel Trilogy is the greatest artist tragedy. The only positive of this Trinity is that you can use it as an easy guide of what not to do.
Correction: late 20th to 21st Century Disney is one of the greatest artistic tragedies of a generation
@Dennis Potts I see your point, even if a bit pedantic. The original comment is talking about how the letdown that was the sequel trilogy, not what the franchise accomplished as a whole. "Artistic tragedy" is obviously hyperbole; come on, it's Star Wars!
Many can agree that The Rise of Skywalker is bad... but holy shit, I didn't realize it was BAD, BAD. I haven't come across any other channel mentioning the repurposing of the theme music, so this was a real eye-opener. Talk about a new low.
There actually is one instance of prequel music being used in the film. If you watch the scene where Poe is speaking to Zorii (the bounty hunter) on the roof on Kajimi, you can hear the soundtrack from the scene in Attack of the clones where Lars is explaining Shmi’s capture by Tuskan raiders to Anakin.
I feel so bad for John Williams. Wasn't this his last job before retirement? What Disney seemingly did to him and his legacy is downright disrespectful.
Yeah when I think George Lucas I think John Williams as well.
Last I heard he’s also doing the fifth Indiana Jones (if it ever even gets made)
Bucktooth Bill George already made terrible Star Wars movies before he sold the franchise.
Editors are the biggest enemy of a film composer :)
John Williams is the best
It is just crushing that THE John Williams had his work essentially tossed aside. I would have loved to know what the Theme for Vader's Castle sounds like.
Josh St Cyr I can’t remember, what played when we saw his castle in rogue one?
@@batnacks Krennic's Aspirations, by Michael Giacchino
Unfortunately, we may never know..
I have a feeling it would sound like "Anakin's Dark Deeds".
24:35 All of the problems you pointed out, and I think this is my biggest issue. No musical scores from the prequel trilogy was an absolute travesty. I'll never understand how they could call this movie the "wrap up of the Skywalker saga" and not include any music from that trilogy.
Even worse is that they straight up fucking blue balled us with the Duel of the Fates in the "Duel" trailer yet never used it in the final movie.
For me, the sequels have the same status as The Last Airbender movie.
What movie
The last airbender never got a movie
What are you taking about
There is no live action movie of atla
@@EllaAngeli there is no live action movie in Ba Sing Se
That is possibly the biggest over exaggeration I have ever seen. The Sequels, as bad as Rise of Skywalker is, are nowhere near as bad as the single worst Shyamalan movie.
@@lordoffrogs6786 The live action movie didn't try to be a different story. It was meant to be the same story as the cartoons, just live action. Episodes 7, 8, 9 are just the original trilogy with a new paint job. It's not a new story, there's no creativity. It's the same story but it's meant to look like a different story. At least the ATLA movie didn't try to hide that it was the same story.
@@lordoffrogs6786 I agree that the sequels aren't as bad as the Last Airbender movie in a vacuum, but this movie is worse in a different way because at least the Last Airbender movie can simply be ignored. This movie actually retroactively undoes the significance of the movies that came before it and its existence is an active detriment to Star Wars as a series.
So honestly in a sense I think the two simply cannot be compared because their monumental stupidity just comes out in different ways.
God saw the Rise Of Skywalker in theaters and punishes humanity for making it
that explains 2020 pretty well
Thanks Disney
Or maybe it was Cats
It was probably a combination of both!
@@helenaperez4343 you ever wonder how Cats would turn out if Disney made it?
“The Star Wars Theme is now only used to mean the Original Trilogy”
ironic
I think you meant "Iconic", disney would say.
they had all the popular soundtrack and they fail to used anyof them.... disney... suck when try to cash grab... all their moive only good when the creator try to made good moive not cash grab... this whole thing just stright to dvd shit...
Ironic. The sequels could provide effective musical scores for other films, but not themselves.
@Snehil Shrey IDK if the prequels are cash-grabs. Weren't the prequels George Lucas trying to use the revolutionary technology that his team invented for Jurassic park as an expansion for Star Wars? He had a lot of the story planned from the very beginning of the franchise, and just saw the new technology his people helped to create as the perfect opportunity to put it on the screen. Also, Star Wars, (before Disney fucked it up) has always pretty much been a passion project, as stated by George in some interviews. My point is Sequels= Disney cash grab shit, Prequels=A wholehearted project that just has a lot of cheesy acting and bad writing (Except for just about every scene with Ewan as Obi Wan). Also the prequels are in a whole different league when compared to the sequels because of three things, and three things alone: No.1: Revenge of the sith. No.2: Ewan's performance as Obi Wan. And No.3: *M e m e s* . Memes are symbols of s tier re-watch value.
Imperial Snowtrooper inspire if the terrible acting and dialogue I will always love the prequels because of the brilliant story, battles and characters and mostly the music. Across the stars is still so moving to me and I never forget the Romeo Juliet love story that was actually the cause for the whole ware in the original trilogy
Man. I was feeling sorry Williams as the downtrodden employee having unreasonable demands made, but they way you brought it around at the end... Yeah, this is the music he's most famous for, he's put as much of himself in this series as Mark Hamil or Carrie Fisher, he doesn't own it but it's his baby. They kind of ruined his life's work 🥺
Technically the Skywalkers aren’t Palpatines. That was just a vision created by palpatine to manipulate.
Sideways before 2020: Pretty chill dude
Sideways during 2020: A combination of the quarantine and some misplaced music in movies is pushing him to insanity
Before TROS you mean
I'll take your word for it but if he has changed, then it is merely an adaptation. ＧＯＯＢＬＥＧＯＢＢＬＥ
Force Awakens: Not the Best, but Promising
The Last Jedi: Oh god this is either terrible or amazing everybody is confused, it can’t get any worse
The Rise of Skywalker: *OH GOD IT GOT WORSE*
Rise of skywalker was made in the style of Force Awakens, but with the quality of the Canto Bight sequence
I think TLJ is an amazing film with a couple terrible decisions (mainly Hux and Finn imo)
@@w3ghe711 An Unbridled Rage you should watch.
@@Gozokukolat Nah, they should watch the full critique.
@@Stad122 I'm sure they don't have the attention span for a critique that's longer than the film. ;)
I will now die on the hill that Williams wrote his own good version of this movie entirely in music
I know! It’s the “lift up heavy thing with the force” theme, since it also showed up in Episode II when Yoda lifted the pillar!
(Yes. It’s dumb.)
“Did you hear that” no, no I did not. I have no idea what’s going on musically in any of you videos, but I will happily watch you being frustrated about the music for a franchise i’ve never seen for 30 minutes
I recommend you start off watching Star Wars with the Holiday Special
@@JP-hk6xw NOOOOOOOO
Just watch the first six movies and stop there, you’ll be fine
@@nickl2854 it does look kinda like fun tho hmm
reddit moment
_"Art is dead."_
_"Art is dead."_
_"Art is dead."_
_"Art is dead."_
*-Bo Burnham 2010*
but what about the droid attack on the wookies?
@@JoshoCR alright have it your way, I like your comment
Long live art
Entertainers like to seem complicated :/
No main stream studio art is dead
The only explanation I can come up with for ”lifting an x wing” theme, is that Yoda’s theme came to represent not only Yoda, but jedi masters and jedi training in general? He’s probably the most iconic jedi teacher, so he represents that as well. Many themes change meaning or have two meanings like you said (obi and force, for example). So Luke shows Rey the power of the force by lifting the ship because that’s what Yoda did for him and the theme plays to represent jedi training,, but idk since Rey didn’t get any training to speak of. Perhaps it’s Luke toying with the idea of training her as he remembers his own training with Yoda, hence Yoda’s theme.
Right, and that’s also why it plays during the celebration at the end.
(To be clear, my sarcasm isn’t toward you, it’s toward the movie)
this whole trilogy is a missed oportunity.
"Rey lookin for Horcruxes"
Would explain basically everything about the movie
Except they just threw that in for one movie. At least in Harry Potter the horcrux story was starting to be built from the very first book/movie.
Yep. They couldn’t even set the ability up properly, even though there is a Sith Lord in Star Wars canon known as Darth Bane who could transfer his soul into other people and objects to continue living after death. There was already source material to use, and yet they didn’t.
@@justafan9399 this just makes me more pissed lmao
@@justafan9399 If I’m not mistaken, that’s a symptom of Disney erasing shitloads of old canon material. When Disney said they’d make the new trilogy, they also basically said, “The original six films and the Clone Wars are all that’s canon now.” (They even kind of ignore the Clone Wars at times, too.) That threw _everything_ about the extensive light sabre lore, extended villains they could’ve easily used, and any neat extended force abilities (that I think they still managed to reference a time or two) out the window. Entire shelves of books that were considered various degrees of canon and alternate universe that were given Lucas’s seal of approval had their contributions to Star Wars’ universe thrown in the trash without a second thought. It’s the biggest retcon I think I’ve ever heard of. It isn’t even a Thanos Snap because there isn’t even half the stuff left over. It feels closer to a lobotomy.
This is part of why this trilogy is so clearly a cash grab. Disney just wanted to make Star Wars big again with its insane money earning power by slapping on new characters unhindered by the extended lore and a shiny coat of paint smeared with just the right amount of grime. It’s even worse because they totally had the power to do that. I can’t blame them for wanting a clean slate to build from. What I _do_ fault them for, however, is not learning from the incredibly obvious structure most of the extended lore used that could’ve been adapted for these films to make their new story fit well within the structure behind all the canon extensions. Even the Clone Wars did that a bit, and it’s the _Clone Wars cartoon_ like c’mon. This crap is ludicrous. The lack of preplanning makes it twice as bad already because that’s a recipe for disaster coming from two companies who are known for their storytelling, but this? It’s just tragic.
@@justafan9399 Ever heard the tragedy of Darth Andeddu the Immortal God-King of Prakith? I thought not, it's not a story disney will tell you. It's an EU Legend. Darth Andeddu was the Dark Lord of the Sith...
Audiences: Well, at least the music was good.
Sideways: No.
Well, the music composed by JW was good. But the music used FOR and how the used it in the film wasn't
The score that we got for the movie was very meh.
@@samuelperezgarcia Love the Knights of Ren motif though
And the last track 'A New Home' is now in my top 10 favorite themes in the entire saga. There's good stuff here and there, but for Star Wars and John Williams standard, that's not saying much
That visceral rage reaction to nonsensical musical decisions fills the void this movie left in my soul
The Kenobi show actually did something really neat. In the first episode, the "force theme" is used as Obi-Wans theme, but it's slowed down and quite because Obi-Wan is in a dark place.
“Ewan McGregor here dies in the first film.”
SIR ALEC GUINNESS
That got me too. Ewan McGregor is awesome, but recognize Sir Alec's work here too. The man is a legend.
Yes, terrible mistake :(
Pretty sure it was a joke
@@matty9460 I don't see any way in how it could be funny
@@JTM610 of cause you wouldn't 🙄
It felt empty because like the rest of the movie, it was just nostalgia. There was no story. No real meaningful moments. Just throwbacks to what we originally loved about Star Wars in the 80’s. It felt so hollow. I love John Williams to death but I feel it’s insulting to give him an Oscar nomination for music that is not original.
You talking about the force theme and Rey theme made me soooo happy. I 100% agree about switching them for the final fight.
15:31 did you intend to sound like Yoda when you "Hmmmm"'ed about the Yoda theme? Because if so...... nice.
I can see why Williams retired after this. They had no respect for him or his work
Nathan Camomile really?! He’s retired now? Nooooooooooo!
I thought he retired because he is retiring. He's up there in years and can't do it forever. And other people have already been doing the standalone films.
He publicly announced that this would be the last (SW) movie he'd be doing.
What? No you idiot he's old and he's been doing it for 40 years. With the saga done he has no reason to come back. Have a new composer take the reings. God
Honestly, disaster or not he needed to retire. He hasn't made a memorable score in ages. It's time for the grandmaster to rest.
Kylo Ren = the only good thing from this trilogy. One could argue he's the main character not Rey.
*Disney:* let's have his FINAL WORD be "ow." And then we'll kill him. No "rey" or ", hold on rey" just "ow" and dead.
*everyone:* thanks I hate it
Kylo was an interesting character - it's interesting to see how the child of the "golden trio" might react to growing up in the shadow of their parents' legacies, but it was kind of just ... Wasted. It would've been very interesting to see the struggle between forging your own legacy but also never being able to live up to people's expectations of you, leading Kylo to turning to the dark side just because it was there for him when all he was to everyone else was a shadow of his parents. It's a shame they wasted the potential of all of that...
he should have been the arch villain of the whole trilogy not Old man Palppy's errand boy
SgtKaneGunlock Nope, big bad should have been Snoke since Kylo was always going to get a redemption arch since Disney did nothing but steal ideas from the OT
this whole trilogy could be defined as "thanks I hate it." lol I actually LIKE both force awakens and the last jedi for everything regarding Luke, Rey and Kylo buuuuuuuuuuut they did fuck up the ending by not having rey join forces with kylo. If you're going to bring the emperor back no matter what, then have them join, have KYLO be the one to sense him, and end the movie with the cackling. It'll bring the suspense that wasn't there, it would give the characters AGENCY and URGENCY in the finale, and give Kylo time with his mother, trying to convince her to work with the first order, along with training Rey. IMAGINE KYLO REN, KYLO FUCKING REN THE ENEMY training REY. If they want them to be a dyad, aaaaaaand romantically involved BUILD THAT UP. Gah. All RIGHT there. RIGHT fucking there. But no. Nothing but echos of what came before. Thanks I hate it.
@@cookiemonster59263 "The Rise Of Kylo Ren" is really good and adds more depth to this issue, tho. Unfortunately, comics are not the best way to show this and I hope they will at least create an animation to adapt it, starting with Luke training his Padawans and ending with Ben's fall to the dark side. They still can explore the character if they want to, but i will not put my trust on them again.
"Ewan McGregor dies right there" *shows picture of Alec Guinness dying*
We all know Alec is just Ewan McGregor time travelling to the past as his older self
When I watched this movie I wasn't sure if Williams even wrote the score. It felt like someone just grabbed the familiar themes and rammed them in. I was truly surprised when I saw his name in the credits. It didn't feel right, so I appreciate your analysis; it answered many questions.
“What’s with the mother hate in this series?”
No wonder Disney bought the rights.
Hahahaha
Mother: *[exists]*
Disney: I’m about to end this woman’s whole career
Happy mother's day, everyone!
"All the spectacle and none of the substance" is the best description of JJ ABRAMS ever.
Describes most modern sci-fis, honestly.
JJ Abrams is the guy you hire to do cinematography. His movies look beautiful, but his scripts are shite
So, hear me out, LOST
Nahh his star trek was superior
@@Mega-Brick Arrival.