As an Indian girl my problem with Mindy’s shows is not that the Indian girl ends up with a white guy. There’s nothing inherently wrong with showing an Indian woman and a white man together, some other shows like New Girl and Bridgerton season 2 did this and it wasn’t seen as an issue. The problem that I and many other Indian women have with Mindy’s shows is that the Indian girl character will constantly put down Indian culture, hate herself for being Indian, and thinks white people are superior. And it’s fine to write your own story from your experience once or twice but that’s literally ALL she does in every show. It’s boring and predictable and just creates harmful stereotypes that young Indian girls watching will internalize.
@@TheKonnoisseur11 I'm rewatching The Mindy Project right now because of all the backlash surrounding Velma, and in one episode, the main character Mindy described her alter ego (I forget if this was on a dating profile or job application or something) as being a blonde with sparkling blue eyes because she thought it should be "aspirational." In another, after she starts dating her coworker Danny (a white guy), she takes him around the city to show him all her favorite places. As he describes it in a voice over, she showed him her NY, "and man, was it white." Whenever the celebrity-obsessed character speaks about celebrities she loves, wants to meet, or wants to be like, they are almost always white: Anne Hathaway, the Kardashians, Reese Witherspoon, Meg Ryan, Sandra Bullock, etc. In the entire run of The Mindy Project, she dated a ton of guys, and exactly 1 was Black. All the rest were white. And of course it doesn't work out with the Black guy because she's still in love with a white guy. In her final episode of The Office, she shows up to Dwight's wedding with a handsome Indian doctor boyfriend, who seems to treat her very well. She soon dumps him to run off with Ryan (her white on-again off-again love interest who famously treated her like dirt). In an earlier episode, she tells Dwight that she doesn't date Indian guys because they're dorky. And watching The Mindy Project now, it's hard to believe it didn't get the same criticism Friends did for being a show set in NYC with almost no people of color in it, even as background characters. (I'm a few seasons into the rewatch and I could count the number of POC characters on one hand.) Though she does work her Indian culture into her shows, sometimes in celebratory ways, more often it is to reject it in favor of something typically associated with whiteness. I haven't watched Velma yet, but I hear it's more of the same.
As a person of colour who has spent years watching bollywood/ Indian movies I ve noticed how pale heroines are in almost all mainstream Indian movies. Ive also watched almost everything Mindy has done. Its my theory that because Mindy is a darker type of Indian and due to the colourism that exists in South Asian cultures Mindy may have grown up very aware of the fact that she wasnt the idealised version of South Asian woman. This might have affected her own attitude to South Asian men and culture which tends to uphold fair Indian women as the ideal....... Edit : just noted you pointed out the colourism issue later on in the video
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
Have you seen the different amount of skin tones that exist in india?? True there are fair skinned actresses in more numbers but that doesn't mean that dark skinned once don't exist and how does that explain the preference to white people who literally were the first once to promote the preference of light skin!! It's the opposite
@@ishanbajpai6940 I agree that there is a variety of skin tones in India and Pakistan and that some Indian actors as so pale as to be white passing . However in the mainstream Bollywood where the big bucks are made there is definitely an obvious preference for the paler skinned actresses. The very fact that a whole white woman like Kalki Koelchin can be an actress in Bollywood or Amy Jackson in South cinema and be cast to pass as Indian is proof of this to me. From what I can tell darker skinned actresses like Konkona Sen Sharma tend to thrive in parallel cinema which is not mainstream or popular. Indian cinema has a long history of casting white women in different roles from dancers to actresses even without a proper understanding of the language the character should speak . Without even focusing on the looks of the actors ,even within the plots of many Indian movies whether Bollywood or South Indian ,a beautiful woman is always described as "fair" and the requirement or a potential bride to be fair is not made just by the bridegroom . My guess is that because colourism pervades the culture and Mindy grew up being made to feel she was too dark especially by fellow South Indians (particularly men) ,she opted out of the culture and because human nature is contradictory she herself has absorbed enough of the colourist notions that she finds herself exclusively attracted to white men .
I actually think a lot of videos are made and aren't hateful, but are accused of being such because people don't like their faves being criticized. I left a comment a few weeks ago detailing points on why I felt Candace Owens was dangerous, the only responses I got were people telling me I hate Candace, which had absolutely nothing to do with the actual points I'd made.
Yes I agree! I think there are a lot of flaws with mindy kalings shows and portrayals of relationships within them, particularly because south asian and non white leading women can be so rare in shows, and the way the industry works they tend to think ' we will be progressive by giving one south asian woman a platform to write shows about south asians' but forget there are so many different perspectives and stories to be told within that, so the issue lies with the fact that her own insecurities and projections are in all her shows, which then affects the audiences who are watching them.. But instead of saying this, a lot of the comments are just bashing on mindy and no shes not perfect, but what a boring and useless conversation it is to have about this topic when people are just focusing on one individual's life rather than saying things about the overall issue and further, how that problem she has can affect people consuming what she makes and the industry
@Xara K I agree with you. But specifically, talking about Mindy. I've seen hatred when she's discussed. Or people just being racist to South Asian people or disrespecting our culture. Sometimes, I even see hate from South Asian people. Who project their life experience onto her.
I’m an Independent Latino. Bringing up the subject without criticize ?? Do your homework is the same as saying, “ I envy, her, but the good envy.”….Hello, is still Envy…….Boring.
I felt like that was Velma too. And I LOVED “Never have I ever”. I’m not Indian American but just loved the character. My family doesn’t resemble hers but I felt empathy for her. It was lovely, heartfelt, and hit all the feels. I don’t need to grow up in a culture to feel empathy. Sometimes “representation” goes too far and ignores the struggles so many share. Rather than embracing what so many go through despite different cultures and races. This show did a great job of representing universal struggles for kids, IMO. Velma is racist and hateful though. I can’t. It makes me wonder if this is who she is. A hateful, nasty person.
Omg, omg, omg - when she quoted Mindy, “White guys hit on me, Indian men didn’t” raises the added point of her facing colourism by Indian men. Let’s be honest, Mindy would not be considered pretty in South Asian households at all including by women and especially by brown men by and large when they are looking for mates because she is dark and doesn’t have petite feminine features. My cousin, who I believe is way more attractive than Mindy, has the same issue because she is dark and gets approached by foreign men, especially black men, which she gladly reciprocates. My cousin and I are south asian-Bangladeshi Bengali, just like Mindy who is half Bengali - I can empathize with her sentiment entirely when men from your own background don’t even consider you
When I heard that line too it does bring up some conflict because there are many times when black nerds on the internet say black girls or guys didn't like me when I was in school only white guys or girls did and then the comments come about differently. It's hard for me to say.
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
@@Rayutomotoseriously. It’s weird seeing all these comments where people are saying that because Mindy was not considered attractive by a lot of men from her culture that she has a strong preference for white men. Like I don’t follow how we jumped from not SA men to only white men lol
i’m a brown girl like her and it’s so obvious that she hates being brown and just portrays her insecurities regarding race in her films 😭 they’re entertaining but it’s so prevalent that it becomes obvious that she has a distaste towards south asian culture
Fr,like honestly I get being insecure since us Indians basically grow up idealising the west ,but with her it's obvious she just doesn't wanna be indian at all.She portrays our culture weirdly too, seems like she does surface level research on things and portrays them onscreen 🤷♂️
also as brown girl, I just dont see it. It just feels like she's getting so much scrutiny because she's a brown woman and people expect her to cater to everyone else except herself and her own experiences.
i agree, and I get it i have a very complicated relationship w south asian culture but seeing that distaste on western media is extremely hard to swallow, esp when written by a south asian woman. I couldn’t finish the Mindy Project or Never Have I ever bc they simply felt so catered toward White people. I didn’t feel any connection to the main character in Never Have I ever as a female Pakistani young adult, though the show does show some aspects of south asian culture it felt forced and almost similar to the idea of a diversity hire. I think Bridgerton did a better job at making me feel heard and represented compared to her work which is saying something as only one season, and a portion of it, really covers South Asian culture and it’s not written by someone south asian. I think yes her work breaks the south asian trope, but not in a way that really represents most South Asian struggles or culture. Instead she feeds into newer tropes that are believed amongst or celebrated by White Americans: the loud and tone deaf south asian that cannot read the room and tends to make a fool out of themself.
I also think it’s weird that all her work surrounds a south asian woman or girl trying to get a man as though our value and only thing worth watching is our romantic pursuits. That was one thing that pissed me off about Never Had I ever, i thought I was walking into a show that was comedic but would finally voice some of the struggles I had as a teen which my friends and I would discuss hours on end. Instead Mindy paints south asian women as 2D characters who’s only pursuit in life is to gain a mediocre man. By doing so I think it further cements privileged audiences perception of south asian women as “other than” with willy nilly struggles rather that true beings that deserve respect and empathy. I don’t blame Mindy for this, i think she was dealt a difficult card. But I think it’s important to note that she was allowed to succeed because her work was presented in gentrified vite sized pieces that Hollywood gobbled up. By doing so other south asian voices aren’t given a fair amount representation because Hollywood sees Mindys work as having done the job.
Hey Amanda! I wrote that Substack article you mentioned around 16:35 and listed in the description as one of your sources. As a longtime subscriber of your channel, I'm so excited that you read my article! Great video as always! I definitely agree with you -- I don't think Mindy is intentionally telling woc to give terrible white men a chance, but that pattern in her work feels tiresome now. Above all, I think she's received an unbelievable level of hate recently (linked to her new show Velma) that feels entirely too personal.
I haven’t watched Velma but the hate is terrible and suspiciously intense (aka bigoted). It’s one of those instances that scares me about putting my work out to the world..
I do think that if Velma didn’t take an long existing IP like Scooby Doo, it would’ve not received the same level of vitriol. It put her in a place where those who wouldn’t normally interact with her work are now seeing whatever flaws are in her work and it’s being further amplified outside of her regular audience.
Plus it’s a pattern rn in so many depictions of fiction… I think some studios or writers or casting panels/directors are having a hard time with feeling like if they cast poc in interracial relationships (or cast the entire movie with a multitude of non-white POC actors) then they are ignoring their white audience. I could be wrong but it’s telling when most stories nowadays that are trying to be diverse are still casting white love interests as a way of saying, “look at us! Diversity!” without realising that non-white interracial couples exist. Imo this adds to the fact that there is still internalised racism and blatant racism towards other diverse cultures within other cultures (even the black community bc there is still anti-Asian/Indian racism there tbh) and a lot of white exceptionalism when it comes to the world of romance and love. That’s why I hate when right wing grifters make racism a western, solely American “problem”…. It’s not, this shit is worldwide lol even Korea has its issues with “light skin” vs “dark skin” in their respective culture so hopefully in the future more writers/etc. who aren’t just infatuated with white European beauty standards will include couples of diverse cultures .. even if the story is a dramatic one, toxic one, etc.
You do know she’s admitted to crossing decorum lines with male hires with unwanted/unscripted kisses and using tongue when she’s not supposed to without consent? Worst part is she also admits to using her power over others to threaten firing staff when they pushed back on her on set actions and brought up that she can be sued for it. She openly & proudly admitted to this on a Conan O’Brian interview to a laughing audience. You can easily find video of this online as well as articles written about those incidents. People have been canceled for far less. I certainly draw the line at things beyond criticism & holding someone accountable. Anyone threatening or making racial statements are the low hanging fruit of universally condemnable statements and are part of the onslaught of online social terrorism. That shouldn’t be used as a shield to deflect or free from said accountability & criticism as well. It’s amazing how quickly feminists (something she has identified as repeatedly as well as her defenders) have thrown off the masks and openly admit it’s no longer about equality but about power, revenge, and supremacy. All men will pay regardless if they are part of the 1% who perpetuate the same systems that oppress everyone to varying degrees while the common man with no real power other than over themselves suffers under this now systemic ideology. Just like how the feminists weaponize platforms to slander an entire gender because of the actions of individuals, now the same energy is returned back on the ideological cult when there are clear abuses of power.
It’s the problem of writing herself into all of her characters. I loved the Mindy Project because that was her first big solo project and kind of made that clear and having an adult character act like that was more endearing for some reason (maybe because you don’t expect adult characters to learn from their mistakes as quickly). I love the representation but not when it’s the same representation every time. I also dislike how Mindy’s shows have the female leads objectify men and call it feminism. It gets creepier and creepier and her female leads come across as shallow. I feel like 90% of people who grew up unpopular or who weren’t valued for their looks and have a “glow up” don’t treat people based on the number of abs they have. Seeing Kimberly, Devi, and Bela do it just doesn’t feel right.
Yes, my thoughts exactly! She's a great writer sometimes and I wish the men in her later shows weren't objectified in that way. It's particularly uncomfortable in The Sex Lives..
This is a brilliant analysis. One of the reasons I think her show ended on such a weird note was because she ONLY seemed to care about landing a man and that was her only obsession. It seemed as tho once she portrayed herself as finding that man, she had no other ideas like some sort of dream had been realized
@@Xara_K1 everyone in the writer room have stand in for themselves, its just previously the writer room had a bunch of white people so it wasn't as obvious.
Exactly! The Mindy Project is one thing. But repeating the narrative of pursuing a mediocre white male while working toward the “American Dream” in teen and college comedies is too much. I don’t know if she realizes she’s promoting propaganda that can be harmful for impressionable young girls and women.
@@Xara_K1 I feel like she landed the man in season 4, and still recognized she wasn’t happy. Then she finally understood herself (and Danny grew up and stop being controlling) they finally could make it work. I kinda felt like it was implying that getting the man isn’t the prize. It’s about being happy with yourself.
Her and Kenya Barris are In similar boats to me. They keep writing “their story” and their story just becomes one narrative that they keep repeating over and over. It’s three shows in a row now. Do what you want, but critics will speak.
You should talk about how her brother pretended to be black to get into med school and was talking down about affirmative action when he is in the fact of minority and didn't see himself as minority. 🤡🤡
And he only got accepted into one school of the many he applied to, they told him directly that his race wasn’t a factor of his admission, and he flunked out of the program.
Did she support him directly or smth? I didn’t think that he was super close with her. If he is that’s different but if they aren’t close then it would be incredibly unfair to judge her based off of her family’s mistakes. Sydney Sweeney recently outright defended her choice to attend a family birthday party with multiple people wearing Blue Lives Matter and anti-vax shirts and fans still went to bat for her. So many people have family members who support things against their beliefs, and they definitely don’t just back up opposing beliefs because of family ties. Again, if she defended her brother or something it’s a different narrative, but if he’s trying to use her name to profit off of HIS problematic choices, I don’t think she should be blamed.
@@leeh4669 I don't think the og poster meant we should blame Mindy for her brother's actions, but more so look at how they both have issues with their own identities and their views on race and culture which most likely stem from their upbringing which is way too common in Asian households. Not to compare Mindy and her brother because their situations and what they have done or currently do are very different. It's just interesting to see how this issue is not only societal, but familial in a lot of cases and it's very unfortunate.
@misscutesy8034 fs that could totally be possible, and i see your point! it does seem like her brother’s actions were one of those weird conservative “thought experiments” to prove a problematic or racist point, and he has been featured in a lot of right-wing magazines like the NY Post. while mindy has issues with idealizing white men, and has made black and brown characters end up with white love interests, she has never indicated that she believes the same thing as him, and like amanda said in the video a ton of it comes from her self-hatred/shame around her identity. her brother wrote in an article that his friends in college suggested he disguise himself as black and introduced him to the weird ideas about affirmative action he’s going around spreading, although i do agree that he could have heard them growing up too he’s only said he developed them in college. so i think that before people start blaming her for his actions or saying that her issues with self-hatred are the same thing we should try and see if she actually supports him. i’m absolutely down to talk about anti blackness in the asian community and biases across groups of oppressed people in general, but she should be brought into that conversation if she actually supports those beliefs.
I think it's important to remember that Mindy came into her own in the entertainment world during the early 2000's which was a completely different time as far as diversity and tolerance towards brown women is concerned. I feel like a big part of her early career was dependent on the friendships she made with successful white male writers and pros in her field like BJ Novak. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of her choices now are informed by those existing relationships or a subconscious bias towards people who helped her in the past. Just My two cents as a brown SE Asian who worked in entertainment for a bit.
she's not in the same position anymore though. I understand why on The Mindy Project she may have had to do this, but her new shows still follow the same formulas. It's tiring, and we can't sit here and say she doesn't have an obvious bias towards white men. If that's her preference then fine, but doing it in every show just because she feels the need to insert her own preferences into all the preferences of the female characters she writes, makes it start to reek or self-hatred. That along with all the Indian jokes that revolve around appearance. She's just not very subtle about her self-hatred which makes for such an awkward watch of her shows.
I'll always remember this joke in the first episode of The Mindy Project where Mindy jokes about black guys liking her because she's thick. Which put in the context of her love interest throughout the show and general lack of black people is questionable to say the least.
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
When you said at 10:54 "where is the line between expressing truth with what -appears to be - internalized racism, and then creating something that perpetuates those same ideas that hurt you?" .............that was a major mic drop moment for me. Thanks for being insightful❤❤
"write what you know" doesn't equal repeatedly writing self inserts. she needs to mix it up. but i don't have a specific problem w mindy, i'm just sick of every couple on tv being either 2 white ppl or an interracial couple. it just seems like poc aren't allowed to exist on screen without an avenue for white viewers to feel relevant. realistically most of us date within our race so it's truly forced
Books have this issue too. A primary example is that YA book Legendborn where the black protagonist is a token surrounded by white people, with two white love interests. If all the characters had been black, it wouldn’t have been as popular.
@@andiman44 Really? I haven't noticed, but I suppose that's because many of the books I read are newer and/or written by queer/poc authors (due to preference), but good to know
Yeah the real problem with a lot of these shows is that if white people are not in dominant roles or featured prominently they just won’t watch. I think this is due to them being the default in shows for so long that it’s hard for them to suspend belief and see themselves in stuff that’s labeled as “other.” And tv execs only care about money, so they pay lip service towards actual meaningful diversity
I remember when I first watched Never Have I Ever I really liked Devi and Ben together, but upon rewatch and after reading a really interesting reddit post that spoke about words and action from Ben that can be considered microaggressions I stopped liking them as a couple. I actually found the character development of Paxton to be really great and it seems like both he and Devi have reached a more stable point in life. I feel like Ben could be a decent love interest if they give development and have him realize the impact of his words more but in the meantime, I agree that it ends up falling into the pattern of a white male love interest treating the lead badly and still getting to be with them regardless of their behavior.
@@carlakunakey217 I tried to link it but the comment disappeared, but it's called "The Problem with Ben (part 2)" by u/WhistleFeather13 on r/NeverHaveIEverShow
I haven't fully watched all of Mindy's stuff but I watched a good way into season 1 of the Mindy Project. And going in I was pretty sure she ends up with or at least dates Danny and in one episode he literally tells her "you'd look better if you lost 15 pounds" and i was floored and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Like how are you going to have someone say this to your character and then have you date them? Things that the men she dates say to her are so not ok. I keep thinking like this is your own show and you are going to let that be a part of it? It just doesn't sit right with me
@@hippinoire characters saying obviously problematic things in a funny way is pretty much the core of Mindy Kaling's comedy, Mindy's characters also say outrageous shit all the time and it's part of what makes it so funny
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
This video was so well done! It’s also interesting the kind of hate Mindy Kaling gets as opposed to other writers/producers who have been called out for similar things like Shonda Rhimes. I think Mindy’s self-inserts/the fact she often plays as her own characters make her catch more vitriol. Though the criticisms against her are valid, she’s still a pioneer in the industry and I hope that the success of her shows makes space for other kinds of representation!
I think the difference is with Shonda Rhimes even when her characters feel like familiar self inserts she casts different races to play the same type of character
Yeah no with Shonda it’s different because the characters aren’t usually guy crazy. For example yes Olivia in Scandal preferred white guys BUT not only did she date other sort of men before but she had a different temperament. Olivia also looked like a proud, unambiguous black woman and who wasn’t a 10 in looks but damned if you didn’t believe it looking at her. Olivia wasn’t mediocre she was extraordinary and just had a life of her own outside relationships. She also didn’t suffer from internalized racism. Mindy characters’ are almost always the same love crazed girl that’s unconventional in looks and aiming for the approval of white guys. And hates her culture. Night and day differences. No one could say Shonda’s characters are disrespecting of their cultures they’re proud of it and they demand others respect it too which is why we’re still talking about Scandal. Heck Shondaland played Indian culture much better and respectful than Mindy Kaling ever did in Bridgerton. It was beautiful to see how Shondaland did homage to Indian culture in S2. And Kate in that wasn’t some boy crazy chick yearning for a white guy’s approval she held her own. So imagine that Mindy as a proper Indian descent woman can’t manage this while a black woman could. Apples to oranges with these too.
@@QNPMEDIA she also doesn't do the exact same thing like yeah greys anatomy was too much and killing off characters and just finding a struggle is not my thing but atleast her characters are a lot better people and don't hate themselves.
The problem is not her liking white men or even putting Indian girls with white men, I don’t even think that’s anyone’s place to criticize her on. The problem would be with hating on her own culture or displaying anti-Indian sentiments.
@@WastedBananas for what? Liking white men? Pairing Indian girls with white men? Having a preference for white men? Which of these things hurt you or Indian people?
Agree. The other issue is how she objectifies and obsesses over the white men to an almost nth degree. It's honestly really creepy, especially coming from an influential writer/actor like her, and it kinda worries me that no one is calling her out on this more.
This is such a thoughtful, contextualized, comprehensive, and deeply humanizing video essay about a complex issue. Thank you so much for taking the time to create and post this video.
As a huge Mindy Kaling fan, I have to admit that I missed her clear self esteem issues for a long time because she's such a brilliant creative that she manages to hide her issues in relatable comedy. I think it was also hidden from me because many of us as Black and African people think self hate is only for us so I just saw her white male interest as immaterial, but then I started rewatching her show, which I LOVE, and I noticed that Mindy is actually VERY entrenched in white pop culture and only sees herself relative to it and seeks to entrench herself in it. I also think the presence of others who look like her is a moot point; Issa Rae has shown that u most definitely can create the representation u wanna see when u get a shot.
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
as a desi girl acclimating in the western world, its TIRING to see Mindy Kaling's representation of indian girls. Just her being the one and only desi woman I saw growing up was huge for me, not gonna lie, but there is no intersectionality, there's things she gets wrong about our own culture, she barely includes any actual references from desi culture, like the movies we grew up watching or the songs we grew up listening (something I actually saw done really well in Ms. Marvel). I honestly feel like she just writes herself into her characters, and being born and raised in USA, she doesn't really represent all of us. She needs to look a little outwards when writing things.
I think you perfectly stated how or where the blurry line becomes a little clearer when it comes to “internalized racism” & literally just “writing your experience”…not to mention Mindy as a dark-skinned Indian woman in tv/film has already made huge steps for inclusion & the industry…but at the same time it does feel problematic or lowkey then becomes detrimental-feeling sometimes when you have those within our BIPOC communities having these patterns/“preferences” they continually show which then reinforces our beauty standards and the limits opportunities to see genuine +happy BIPOC family & relationship dynamics on the screen play out… anyways, thanks again for the extra food for thought & research + hot take on this topic & her as a whole with this debate-in as unbiased +constructive criticism as you could fr we love the diligence 🫶🏾❕
As a black guy, I remember watching SCANDAL a few years ago where despite the show's other problems, I would defend the fact that the black female lead is in a love triangle with two white guys. I get it, the series isn't trying to code itself as a "black" show, but a "general audiences show which happens to have a black female lead." If both love interests where black, the casting choice could feel conspicuous from another angle, if only one of them were a person of color ... then the entire dynamic becomes even more inescapably tied to race. I can only remember seeing a few episodes of The Mindy Project during its first season and I'm not familiar with Kaling's other stuff. But even if she really just is "writing what she knows" it still feels like this bizarre oversight to have your brown lead ONLY date white people. It might be one thing if simply the main love interest in an individual show is white, but if your lead character has like 10 boyfriends or girlfriends in your show and they are all white, you have to know that people are going to ask questions. Even Joe Goldberg had two black girlfriends.
I find interesting everytime people mentioned Scandal and the issue with Olivia's dating choices, yet all Black men on the show dated White or others but no one seems to have an issue with it. I wonder why?
@@emileigh6524 I really think your argument is invalid. He just mentioned the the white dude from You having two black love interests and it not being an issue. He’s simply pointing out a lack of diversity in the character’s dating history.
I don't care that her love interests are white, that may just be her experience and preference because we all know that many brown and Black men are colorist and hate women who look like Mindy. I care that her love interests are assholes and her characters are written to be self-hating.
@@55CINCO55 No you're right. It's weird when people act like it's okay exclusively date white men because men of color are mean and colorist (and they definitely are. Not trying to dismiss that in anyway). Like white men also behave like this in mass, yet we have space for nuance for them but not black and brown men? And it's a bit weird we want to put this on their behavior. Mindy lived in a super white town, went to a super white school and college. And pursued a super white career path. She got her start as a diversity hire. She was in these all white spaces while fantasizing about being a female lead in white romcoms. And at the center of the issue is that she is not writing the world she lived in. It looks crazy when you write like this in a more diverse setting. Convey the isolation you experienced being surrounded by white people. She's only writing half the story.
@@55CINCO55 because a lot of women of color like to justify THEIR colorism + self hatred with worshipping white men. It makes zero sense logically. We all know blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin is the beauty standard in white community. So if she can sift through the white men who prefer that standard, why can’t she do the same with HER group of men??? Oh yeah, because they arent white 😂😂😂 they don’t deserve that luxury, they are brown. Complete bs
I've been watching a lot of her shows, and I loved your nuanced take on it! It mirrors a lot of the thoughts I've been having. I also wonder how much of what she writes is for commercial success, as opposed to what aligns with her values. Idk! She is a trailblazer in so many ways, and her writing has big strengths and big weaknesses. Maybe I don't know enough about writing in a writer's room, but it seems like an easy way to escape the "write what you know" issue would be to create a writer's room of people who can collaborate with you to step outside what you know (cuz it's what they know, etc). I find that's just not something writers want to do a lot of the time, because they really want their own story/voice to shine if finally given the opportunity, which is so so hard to come by at times, particularly in Mindy's case. It's a really important conversation to be had, and though Mindy can def do better in some aspects, I just wish it didn't all have to fall on her shoulders.
thank u! and I agree! also I think the writer's room point is true. Season 1 of The Mindy Project was mostly white dudes besides Kaling herself. I'm sure Never Have I Ever and College Girls have more women, poc, and lgbtq+ writers bc they're representing much more diversity of characters.
@@amandamaryanna It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
The thing you said about boys bullying you when they like you because they're emotionally immature and most definitely misogynistic was SO RIGHT. There's a real life example of that around me rn and it immediately reminded me of that guy. Great video btw!!
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@@boilaknezzi8974 its bcz those boys’ misogynistic way of thinking makes them feel like love makes you weak and they dont wanna feel weak because of a girl so they bully her to hide the fact that his feelings made him feel less suprerior to her, its like he’s blaming her for making him feel vulnerable bcz his heart and emotions want her.
I remember hearing that growing up and it led to a lot of dangerous relationships at a young age "graveyard love" at ages 14-17. With my kids (boy & girl ) I said if someone is mean to you it doesn't mean they like you it means they DON'T respect you and to not give that person any attention or chance if they are treating you like that. No way did I want my kids with anyone who would resort to breaking them down to build themselves up.
@ your comment about why you think boys are misogynistic when they do this. Is perhaps the single dumbest thing I have read in this entire comment section. Talk about brain washed. The sickness is deep with that kind of twisted logic. It's just immature kids. I guess when girls do it it becomes some kind of saintly tortured exercise in how girls are not being heard. SMH pure insanity from you.
This reminds me of colorism in the black community. I understand her to a degree because it truly is all she knows. I don't think she chose those men in her real life just because, she was rejected by her community in a way (you'll probably notice many dark skin Indian men dating out their race too), at some point she does it because that's her only option, later on it became a preference. If she grew up in mostly white spaces, other Indian men did too and were probably pursuing white women for the same reasons she did. 🤷🏿♀️ I think she definitely should've picked a more diverse cast but hey, so many poc men do this, except they do it behind the screen, so idk which is worse.
That could be valuable to explore onscreen. The experience of being harmed by colorism in the Indian community. But I’m sure media uplifting white and light skin plays a role in what’s viewed as normal or expected. So as a creator and writer, she has the power to create images in media that challenge what has become the norm. In her shows she has the ability to meaningfully work through or address those issues. Instead she uplifts white men, consistently, while barely exploring why men of color seem entirely out of the question. She could be doing more, but also we need more darkskinned women of all backgrounds to be in the position to make shows based of their experiences and worldviews too.
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
@@basketweaver912to be fair, you wouldn’t probably want to uplift people who were not interested in you. Is it fair to expect her to see their point-of-view?
@@crissoa I get that point. I also get that her characters are not her. They may be informed by her personal experiences, but they aren’t her. So in the artistic process of creating her characters, she can portray them as having relationships she’s never had herself personally. I think she could’ve played with the idea more across her work, but yes that would have taken some imagination on her part. Some ‘what if another Indian girl or woman had a different experience than mine in relation to their dating partners’ type of exploration. But also, more than Mindy engaging in a bit more self reflection and maybe imagination (my humble thoughts) I would love to see more darkskin women of all races producing shows and sharing their perspectives on screen.
Honestly great nuanced analysis of everything. I can’t help but be convinced that her obsession with white guys stems from some form of self-hate. I’m a second gen Indian girl who grew up in the states, and I remember going through a similar phase myself when I was younger. In the 90s and 2000s in America, thin white blonde girls with blue eyes and big boobs were considered the epitome of beauty, and when I’d watch Bollywood movies, all the big actresses were just as light skinned as the white people id see in western media. That and people constantly putting me down for my darker complexion made me hate my brown skin, as well as anything else that made me look Indian. My self esteem was so low, and I remember preferring to date white guys all throughout college, likely because I really needed that validation from them. I think a part of me thought that if I married a white guy, my kids would never have to hear the horrible comments I heard about my skin color growing up. Looking back on it it all sounds so fucked up. After college I finally grew out of that mentality and now I absolutely loveeeee anything and everything that ties me to my Indian roots, including (and especially) my skin tone. I wouldn’t change a single thing about who I am or where I came from, but it took a long time to get to this point. And that’s why I feel so uncomfortable watching a lot of mindy kaling’s works… when I watch them I get the feeling that she’s still stuck in that toxic mindset of wanting to remain as close in proximity to whiteness as possible, that it gives her that sense of validation and acceptance she needs from them. And before y’all come at me like “iTs oKaY fOr hEr tO hAvE pReFeREnCEs” yeah of course I get that, we all have our preferences!! But whenever I see a person of color who’s ONLY into white people, I can’t help but give a little side eye. You can’t just ignore all the social and cultural factors that are likely causing that highly specific preference.
This is coming in at the BEST time; my friends & I (all WOC) were just discussing this in our groupchat after rewatching some of her work that we LOVED when we were younger (The Mindy Project especially) What a journey it is to grow & become more aware of the deficits that exist even within shows that provide much needed representation. As many already said: Mindy is not a bad person, her insecurities are just pervasive throughout her work, which can potentially be harmful for younger WOC consuming her content (I sure as hell know it was for me & how I built romantic relationships as I got older). Great video!
Thank you for articulating the point I’ve been trying to put into words for the last 20 minutes😭 I feel like content creators as a whole, whether they’re apart of traditional or internet media, have an issue with understanding the implications of their work once it’s cast out to a wider audience. And Mindy is in a position where she’s disproportionately influential given that she’s THE representative character on TV for her intersection of identities. White ppl and even some POC don’t have to navigate their work with such a large burden bc there are many other people with a large platform who are like them. So yeah, her characters can definitely be harmful but casting the blame for that harm exclusively onto her ignores that piece of it
@@borger6514 yeah but after 10 years why isn't she highlighting other South Asian women. Do an Oprah and share the spotlight instead of holding onto to that model minority myth. She's made her money and gotten the limelight. Share with others so other stories can be told
Most white writers and other writers of color choose to write parts of themselves into many of their lead characters just as Mindy Kaling has done. We as viewers just don't notice it or bother calling it out because most complex characters with depth on television and film have been white for so long! It's only noticeable now with Mindy Kaling because literally no other well-known screenwriters are South Asian women, so most of Mindy's brown female characters are automatically labeled to be her "self-inserts" even if she did make an effort to give them different personalities and interests from herself. It's a shame that the term "self-insert" is used to disparage Mindy Kaling's writing talent as well as other POC writers, when white male writers and even many white female writers are much more prevalent in writing self-insert characters yet don't receive much vitriol for it the way Kaling has!
Yeah, i think that’s why all the Mindy hate seems off to me. It’s moved past critique of the shows to straight up dragging her. And the irony of it all is that non-POC people don’t have to deal with this😂
I mean, there’s more than just white men who can be love interests. Latino, Indigenous Americans, East and South Asian men, Black men etc. I don’t think she has ill intent, but I personally appreciate a bit more imagination from tinsel town as a whole when it comes to characters and I like the idea of more opportunities for actors and writers of color so we can have more Mindys telling new stories. However to each their own and it’s her art, her stories etc. but people are gonna notice the pattern and comment/critique. If I only dated and wanted a certain race, I’d want to pause and be like, “ Do they HAVE to be only that race?” And if so, why? Not necessarily should you have to date outside your comfort zone, but I think It’s an interesting and relevant topic to explore personally and perhaps through one’s art.
The last five men you dated what race were they?Also when was the last time a male love interest was Native American, Asian, Latino (all varieties), Arican portrayed in mainstream Hollywood. But now Mindy has to be the one to do so. Give me a phuckhing break from this pseudo intellectualism.
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
It's interesting because Paxton was cast under the assumption that he was white and wasn't until afterwards that they realized he was Japanese and included that into the show and even changed his name to Paxton Hall-Yoshida
@@birdiewolf3497 Ben is Jewish. Also, the racism is is becoming very obvious, who cares if a brown woman wants to be with a white man? Aren’t y’all the same people who are all for interracial relationships?
I think you did a good job of showing the nuances of how preferences work especially in dating & attraction. We always say that writers write from their experiences but they can also write from their wishes of how they would like to see the world as well or how they would like to experience the world for themselves (speaking as a writer myself). There can definitely be a possibility of wish fulfillment when Kaling writes her Indian leads with white romantic interests. I love romantic movies and shows so whenever I would watch them I would place myself as the leading lady who was always white and the interest was always a white man. It took me a long time to broaden my perspective on who I found attractive in a sexual or romantic way, and even more time to build relationships with people outside of my comfortable environment and confront my unconscious bias. It’s really uncomfortable but it’s a necessary growth. Kaling is a successful, accomplished woman who has broken barriers. Whatever her pathologies are, it’s hers to contend with if she chooses. I hope these think pieces pushes creatives to add to her legacy and make more stories instead of complain for her to change. Let’s keep progressing!
another example: des and devi breaking up in never have I ever so she could go back to her white boy love triangle. I was so excited to see a young south asian couple be represented like that, but of course that was ended pretty quickly
i love the indian culture, i enjoyed never have i ever, i really wanted devi to end up with the indian guy but they did him dirty in the show and portrayed him as a mommy’s boy, while ben, the white dude who was always mean to her apparently was the right choice all the way, i know people change and whatever but still, im not over it
honestly, this is how you see how different ppl from different countries are, my friends and I never even paid attention to the race of Mindy's boyfriends on the Mindy project, we just loved the show because it showed a poc that did not fit in the boundaries of her race and that connected with me as a black girl who has always had issues with ppl judging me because I wasn't like the other African black girls when it came to my personality habits, interests and thoughts.
Despite being Bengali myself, I really didn't like The Mindy Project. I watched series 1-3 and couldn't stand Danny. I also hated how obsessed it was with romance, given that I'm aromantic.
In never have I ever my impression of Ben is that he starts out as Devi s rival .They have been rivals from the time they were little because they are both the most brilliant students in class. Both Devi and Ben are generally unpleasant towards each other throughout the series mostly because of this rivalry . At one point Devi even wishes out loud in a history class that Ben (who is Jewish ) had been killed by Nazis . So they generally have a history of making inappropriate comments towards each other . When they both give on to their underlying romantic feelings for each other and Ben is on his best behaviour it is Devi who cheats on Ben in the end
But it was Ben who was the instigator. That was a reason why Ben had no friends. He was an unpleasant person to be around. Like everyone collectively thought this. Devi would just retaliates to Ben's asshole comments because she has anger issues. They had a moment in season one where they talk about this. Ben was in a relationship with another girl where he spoke down to her as well. Devi doesn't do that.
@@birdiewolf3497 Devi is problematic as well .She may not speak down to her love interests but she can be manipulative and self centered and even when both Ben and Paxton made themselves vulnerable to her she went out of her way to sabotage those relationships. I also don't think a whole rivalry from the time they were kids was driven by Ben alone. They are both hyper competitive type A personalities who hate to lose and have their good and bad sides ,when Devi pushed all her friends away and left home ,Ben was there for her ,accommodated her and drove her to the place her father's ashes were being scattered.
@@MsDiMera2 I know Devi is problematic. It's kinda of the point to her character. But when Devi is problematic it is treated as a bad thing she needs to work on. While Ben never has to apologize for being an asshole. It's a personality quirk that people randomly decided they're okay putting up with now. And even if you want to say Ben's not an asshole. It's falls into the trap of white love interest that constantly pick at the protagonist's insecurities for fun. Like Mindy and Devi have such a negative self image and its like why continue to partner with someone who feeds that beast? I just think Mindy needs to write more love interests that are affirming. Instead of this let's be nasty towards each other and call it love. She goes too far with it. And even though I don't care for Ben, he can certainly do better than a person that wished he'd get killed by Nazis and constantly making fatphobic comments about his daddy.
I really appreciate this video and all of the nuance you included. But Mindy Kaling has an impossible standard to meet. Forgive my rant... Because she's brown - no matter how diverse the casting, no matter how good she attempts to make the representation, people will ALWAYS be mad at her about something. Should she throw away plot points, character progression, character mistakes in a story, all because the audience is demanding two people HAVE to end up together because they're the same race? I never see these kinds of critiques aimed at white writers. Why the hell are white writers/actors given 10x the leeway as POC? If it's a POC, they have to perfectly represent their entire community and also every other community... She's writing comedies, not making documentaries. Go look at every other comedy that's come out in the last 10 years and tell me how many had better representation and diversity than her shows.
@@feji88 True. But why is that the standard? There are plenty of mediocre white men in media but it’s only POC that must rise to this level of near perfection to escape any kind of criticism. POCs shouldn’t have to create the most eye-opening, perfect, nuanced, entertaining piece of media. It’s a harsh double standard
I don’t think so her work is great, if she threw in two Indian guys then nobody would have said anything. She just neverrrr did that. BUT look at her show never have I ever, it was perfectttt it covers everything and the main girl dated an Indian guy. In the end she ended up with a white guy. White people/writers are criticised about not being diverse too and always screwing over the POC cast e.g Big Bang Theory and Raj
I think she is more self aware than we think. In never have I ever, when Devi had a crush on the other Indian guy in the show they had a scene together where he called out devi for being the type of Indian girl to only date white guys because of her own internalized racism. I thought that was insane that he said that because I've never seen Mindy break the fourth wall and almost call herself out like that
They do it often in The Mindy Project. The jokes arnt explicitly about Mindy Lahiri having internalized racism, but they do a lot about Lahiri only dating white men. I think that’s part of what makes it funny😂
It’s definitely weird and a problem that she kissed Lee Pace (a white gay actor) without his consent and instead of apologising when she was told she could be sued, she threatened to fire him. And the way that Fred is written in Velma is so hateful and mean-spirited.
Also worth noting that one scene in Velma where Daphne, out in public, outside a police station was kissing on Fred, and then went to unzip his PANTS. And when he said no, Daphne went "if not now then when???" Not to mention how the reason for this was chalked up to hormonal issues out of his control, ie. Being a late bloomer and having a small wee. Which is just- his one note as a character. He has a small wee and that's funny. And no one, not even Velma, and by extent Mindy corrects this behavior. Not to mention that MeToo joke. Its disgusting. She should be in jail
she grew up in the era of yt dudes doing the same thing she's doing now - fixating on a certain type of conventionally attractive person (for them it's usually a "pretty" blonde yt girl/woman). i don't think she realizes we don't like. it sucks that the men still get away with it but c'mon mindy...
This video rocks! I was completely oblivious to all the nuances of this criticism of Mindy Kaling, and I love how much care you put into first setting context and understanding for her casting and story lines and then moving on to the problems. At no point did it ever feel condemning, just illuminating. Left this video with so much understanding, thank you!
You articulated this so beautifully, and I appreciate the objectivity and differing viewpoints in this video. Mindy Kaling's experience as a writer and woman of colour is nuanced and complex. It would be too easy for us to label her a racist and white fetishist, as this issue runs far deeper than Lahiri's dating preferences and writing patterns. The fact that we feel so comfortable delving into and casting judgment on Lahiri's life, dating history, and writing, speaks to the (often detrimental) societal dating expectations placed on women of colour. I think the criticisms about her writing are part of a much bigger conversation about interracial dating, internalized racism, colonialism (white superiority), and dating (for women/POC) in the 21st century. We need to consider the time period and experiences of a writer before we jump straight to condemning their work as problematic. At the end of the day, artists are people, who are inherently biased in their work. The greater question here is do artists owe us diversity? And should someone be willing to compromise their artistry for the sake of others...
Well said, I’ve been looking for comments like this one😂 I been saying this over and over again but my issue with the Mindy hate is that people moved from critiquing what they don’t like in her shows (which I totally get bc I’m a fan and I have my own thoughts on Lahiri and Devi) and jumped to Mindy is a racist that hates herself. It’s A dishonest conclusion and the same “self insert” reasoning would not be applied to non-POC. I feel like ppl are completely missing the fact that holding WOC to the type of standard where one person must be the perfect representative for all is also problematic. I wish more artists believed that diversity should be included in their work, but in Mindy’s case it’s up to her to decide what that looks like. And imo at this point, her existing as herself in mainstream American tv should be enough for one person. I’ll ask again, who else is doing what she’s doing? Maybe the next generation of POC, specifically South Asians Americans, will have the opportunity to provide a more rich and layered representation of their culture in American media. And it’ll be bc Mindy was trailblazer and cast women to play these roles in her shows when no one else was. Sorry I’m ranting now lol. I’m black I love seeing all the different ways black ppl are represented on tv rn. We got options lol! I cannot wait until American tv embraces all the cultures that live here.
as someone not indian or white I think that the internet always hated Mindy, can't talk about her body and face anymore so now they're attacking her writing. Male writers work the same material over and over again and no one says anything. Edit: I remember in TMP she dated an Indian man, and what I can remember is that there was a big issue about how she was rised and what Indian expect from her. Too Indian for american men and too American for Indian men type of plot
There's a line in Never Have I Ever in which the protagonist speaks about how she sees herself in college and she says she won't be attending Indian celebrations and she'll be with her white boyfriend, (I get rejecting traditions as a teen, but envisioning a boyfriend and the only trait is he's white?)
An utterly fantastic video essay. I absolutely wish everyone could have your same approach to this. Context is so unbelievably important but so is constructive criticism. Again, great video!!!
I literally finished the SLOCG 2 finale right before this video went live. Have also been following the discourse around Kaling following the release of Velma. Thank you for talking about this with nuance and without hate.
Personally, it gives off a fetish for whyte men. I always wondered why she didn't have an Indian guy be her love interest. I feel like the excuse she gave was no excuse. She had an opportunity to show Indian ppl, and she didn't. She wrote and played a stereotypical POC fawning over whyte dudes. The only thing she didn't do was have a fake "Indian accent". It would've been groundbreaking if there was an young Indian American couple on TV. Also, her brother did an experiment where he essentially wore blackface and wrote a paper trying to "prove" that black ppl had it easy benefitting from affirmative action. His own experiment proved him wrong yet he still forcefully held onto his original hypothesis even though he was wrong. After learning about her brother, her obsession with whyte men made more sense.
They are dark skinned and probably have a lot of self-hatred. Colorism in Indian community is worse than black community, it’s resulted in worshipping of paler complexions
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
Mindy is not changing the narrative she is just weaving herself into the white story line. I grew up in Toronto in a 80% South Asian culture. She is a typical stereotype of a colonized South Asian who is hates her dark skin. She even used a white donor for her children. I live in Mass there is a huge South Asian culture Her response to criticism is she represents herself but she used the diversity ticket to gain entry. Mindy Kaling does not like her dark skin which is typical for most South Asians For her to say she did not see herself represented on TV do you mean Bollywood lets be clear you would never see her skin type in bollywood. It is precisely the openness of Hollywood that would allow a " chubby dark skinned" south asian girl this platform. And what does she do she changes nothing but adds a typical white male interest.
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
Can any interactions, relationships, or friendships with whites be genuine? If so, then why can’t she have her preferences regardless of where she was raised?
I think it’s crazy that Mindy’s voice is the ONLY Indian-American voice. I mean as far as the mainstream goes, I can’t think of any other Indian woman’s voice in TV. She’s the only game in town. So she is going to get picked apart especially in terms of the love interests she cast. Right now she is kinda looking like EVERY Black rapper with zero Black women in their videos 😂 That being said I think dark skinned women of any race should go where they are celebrated IRL but be like Donald Glover on film. 🤭
Mindy is the comedy Indian girl but not desirable lead material. The only one who was the lead in a primetime drama is Priyanka Chopra with Quantico I think.
I think it’s weird how black women are so pre-occupied with Mindy Kaling’s preference. This isn’t even our community. And you never see other groups speaking out when black men only cast white or the lightest women to be love interests. Everything is not a think piece.
i appreciate that you approach this topic with context and nuance! there’s so many layers and different angles to look at something like this and i think it obfuscates a lot of the truth if it’s only pinpointed as good or bad.
The viciousness is uncalled for, absolutely, but the writers strayed SO far from the original story/characters that the characters are explicitly bigoted... like who did they write this show for??
Sadly, White men (and some women) are using WOC’s founded analyses of her work to hate on Velma/spew surface level vitriol that they wouldn’t have been able to get away with as easily prior
I had no idea she was from Massachusetts,that explains everything. And let's not act like many poc don't develop self hatred about their appearance when growing up around mostly caucasians.
I absolutely love the way you made this vid! You didn’t bash her but thoroughly analyzed your observations and critically explained your criticisms! This was a great video.
My sister told me this like 8 years ago fr but I told her she’s crazy but the signs where there I mean not actually comfortable with herself, skin lightening. Etc and I noticed it myself but tbh I don’t really give a fuck I just love to make my sis angry by disagreeing 😂
I can see why people are saying that Black Women shouldn’t worry about this topic. However, Mindy is writing the black female characters like this too. Look at the love interests Whitney has in SLOCG.
the problem with mindy is that her female indian characters are always filled with self-hate and always end up with white guys who have been extremely rude and racist toward them. i don't get why she thinks white men being mean, condescending and racist is attractive and something to root for.
For me, it's the fact that she puts down her own culture the way she does. As a Black Hispanic myself who immigrated to the US in the late 90s. I understand that sadly how heavily pushed the idea of whiteness was thrown at us POC. That when she was younger, she felt like she had to compete with whiteness and some of us have been there. But that is the thing we grow out of it and learn to love ourselves and our culture. But you can tell Mindy hasn't down that, she puts her culture down. Because she still doesn't love herself or her culture. It's sad and she needs therapy. And the other thing is, Like Mindy let that actor BJ go. He clearly doesn't want you, and you making your characters be with the most boring white guys as like a form of manifesting for yourself. Is weird, and he has clearly shown you. He is not going to chose you
1. Art is meant to be scrutinized. This includes one’s “experience.” 2. It’s called a caste system for a reason 3. Anti-blackness in Hollywood is a given bc the entire world is covered in it 4. The “evolution” of her appearance 5. No group is monolithic, therefore “representation” will inherently leave someone out, others annoyed 6. Smart, creative people have blindspots, hidden agendas, and unresolved issues - the audience is also responsible for continuing to watch problematic content
let's not forget that she bragged about kissing lee pace on set without his consent on conan, and then joked about blackmailing him after the assault. so many lose sight of the fact that we can understand and hold compassion for those affected by white supremacy, but also respectfully hold creators accountable for problematic behavior. thank you for making this video!
My biggest issue with how she writes is that all her self insert characters aren't nice or likable. They're often rude, judgmental and selfish, yet she gets pursued by these amazing (white) men to the point of being unbelievable. One begged her for a date after seeing her in the train!
I actually liked the character arc Mindy brought in for Devi in NHIE, even season 3 where she brought in the hot Indian guy (only to be rejected by him and his mom eventually). I haven’t really delved into any of the other shows she has written for (aside from the office), but I personally liked NHIE. As a brown girl who went to school in Bangladesh and then to Boarding school in the US, I saw the blatant colorism in the way men of my own race interacted with me (I’ve only dated white men so far because they’ve been the only race that has found me attractive). But I think NHIE is a good balance of the American brown girl experience through Kaling’s personal lenses? Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in my interpretation.
Came across this video autoplaying Velma reviews. I'm generally unfamiliar with Mindy Kaling; thus actively chose to watch the entire video for educational reasons. Coming out of it i think i may subscribe. Carefully defined introduction, well paced chronological delivery, references, succinct and insightful script; this is a good video.
i think another part of the issue is that, especially in the mindy project, a lot of the love interests are played by famous comedy actors and writers, many of whom are white men. the exclusionary casting in this series reflects the discrimination and inequity within the comedy world, such that many of the most high-profile, well-paid comedians are white heterosexual men. i hope to see a shift in comedic casting as more people of color, women, trans people, queer people, and disabled people achieve higher positions of power and influence in the entertainment industry!
This is the first video of you that I get to, pretty good analysis imo! Your voice is calming and not boring. The only thing I can comment on is that I expected the "kissing scene and threating to fire whoever opposed it" situation to appear in here.
I've been saying for a while, in relation to creators like her and Shonda Rhimes, I wish they'd be honest. Be honest that the world has convinced them on some level romance is only for white people. That even if a POC is included, no one wants to see them if a white person isn't there too. It's sad really because as a black woman who LOVES their work, I can see beauty and revolution in what they are doing but still feel....disconnected from it. There is also something to be said about the companies that platform them needing to see a white face somewhere in order to find the stories worthwhile. The cycle is sad but I believe we are watching them ATTEMPT to try new things recently.
I disagree because when I was a kid, you rarely see a interracial couple on TV. This was only the 2000s buy now y'all are complaining about seeing IR couples on TV. That is ridiculous. How has something so progressive turn into something so regressive?
I find it interesting that no one speaks of how Asian women (mostly east asian) with fair pale skin are often paired with white men in media and are even more likely to marry white men than their own race. I do have have to wonder if it's because she's brown skinned (which is usually not seen as desirable to white men) that people are taking more of an issue with it? Of course that's not all as what else is mentioned in this vid is also true but its just something I've noticed. Frankly I wish more brown skinned girls were shown as desirable to men of other races because that's rarely ever seen but in a more healthy way.
I kinda understand her self esteem issues. Most Indian men does not prefer dark skinned women. If they do, that's good. I've seen this all through highschool but most of them does not prefer dark skinned girls. All they see is the colour of the girl, her personality only comes after her colour
As an south Asian woman, I’ve never connected to mindy’s characters. They are self hating brown women that play into the “I’m too cool to be a part of my culture.” Then again, this could reflect her upbringing. I just don’t understand what’s being represented because I feel she’s representing herself, not characters for south Asian women. I feel that it would be fair if she represents herself instead of representing all “brown people.” Because personally, I want representation I connect with and Mindy doesn’t reflect anything I can relate to.
If that’s her preference to date white men that’s her business, she doesn’t have to date Indian men if she not attractive too them.who is it to say who we date it’s our business as long as she happy.
Your black fragility is showing…questioning her choices in the race of men she prefers to date. Why do you care? Love is love. Maybe you need to do the work to except a world where women of color can date anyone they choose💃🏿🕺
Love this video essay, it’s the first one I’ve seen from you and so glad I found it! Super interesting, and context is always very important in any analysis! Thank you!
As an asian person, growing up in asia when I was younger, a lot of people here think people from the west are attractive and almost to the point of idolizing them. But another issue is that as I lived in Europe for a few years, once I returned to asia, asian boys (even girls) see asian people who live abroad (especially in western countries) differently and most often in a judgmental way. A lot of my asian friends also mentioned that asian boys have very particular or specific tastes due to the beauty standards here. I'm just pointing out what I have observed (and when I talk about asia, I'm mainly talking about east and southeast asia as I am from there and I don't have enough information to talk about south asia or the middle east). But as always, great video!
As an Indian girl my problem with Mindy’s shows is not that the Indian girl ends up with a white guy. There’s nothing inherently wrong with showing an Indian woman and a white man together, some other shows like New Girl and Bridgerton season 2 did this and it wasn’t seen as an issue. The problem that I and many other Indian women have with Mindy’s shows is that the Indian girl character will constantly put down Indian culture, hate herself for being Indian, and thinks white people are superior. And it’s fine to write your own story from your experience once or twice but that’s literally ALL she does in every show. It’s boring and predictable and just creates harmful stereotypes that young Indian girls watching will internalize.
This comment needs to be on the top!
I'm not Indian but I completely agree with this
I don’t follow her work. How exactly does she express that “wh ppl are superior”?
Finally someone said it!
@@TheKonnoisseur11 I'm rewatching The Mindy Project right now because of all the backlash surrounding Velma, and in one episode, the main character Mindy described her alter ego (I forget if this was on a dating profile or job application or something) as being a blonde with sparkling blue eyes because she thought it should be "aspirational."
In another, after she starts dating her coworker Danny (a white guy), she takes him around the city to show him all her favorite places. As he describes it in a voice over, she showed him her NY, "and man, was it white." Whenever the celebrity-obsessed character speaks about celebrities she loves, wants to meet, or wants to be like, they are almost always white: Anne Hathaway, the Kardashians, Reese Witherspoon, Meg Ryan, Sandra Bullock, etc.
In the entire run of The Mindy Project, she dated a ton of guys, and exactly 1 was Black. All the rest were white. And of course it doesn't work out with the Black guy because she's still in love with a white guy. In her final episode of The Office, she shows up to Dwight's wedding with a handsome Indian doctor boyfriend, who seems to treat her very well. She soon dumps him to run off with Ryan (her white on-again off-again love interest who famously treated her like dirt). In an earlier episode, she tells Dwight that she doesn't date Indian guys because they're dorky. And watching The Mindy Project now, it's hard to believe it didn't get the same criticism Friends did for being a show set in NYC with almost no people of color in it, even as background characters. (I'm a few seasons into the rewatch and I could count the number of POC characters on one hand.) Though she does work her Indian culture into her shows, sometimes in celebratory ways, more often it is to reject it in favor of something typically associated with whiteness. I haven't watched Velma yet, but I hear it's more of the same.
As a person of colour who has spent years watching bollywood/ Indian movies I ve noticed how pale heroines are in almost all mainstream Indian movies. Ive also watched almost everything Mindy has done. Its my theory that because Mindy is a darker type of Indian and due to the colourism that exists in South Asian cultures Mindy may have grown up very aware of the fact that she wasnt the idealised version of South Asian woman.
This might have affected her own attitude to South Asian men and culture which tends to uphold fair Indian women as the ideal.......
Edit : just noted you pointed out the colourism issue later on in the video
This!!!!!
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
Have you seen the different amount of skin tones that exist in india??
True there are fair skinned actresses in more numbers but that doesn't mean that dark skinned once don't exist and how does that explain the preference to white people who literally were the first once to promote the preference of light skin!!
It's the opposite
That's not an excuse.
@@ishanbajpai6940 I agree that there is a variety of skin tones in India and Pakistan and that some Indian actors as so pale as to be white passing . However in the mainstream Bollywood where the big bucks are made there is definitely an obvious preference for the paler skinned actresses. The very fact that a whole white woman like Kalki Koelchin can be an actress in Bollywood or Amy Jackson in South cinema and be cast to pass as Indian is proof of this to me. From what I can tell darker skinned actresses like Konkona Sen Sharma tend to thrive in parallel cinema which is not mainstream or popular. Indian cinema has a long history of casting white women in different roles from dancers to actresses even without a proper understanding of the language the character should speak .
Without even focusing on the looks of the actors ,even within the plots of many Indian movies whether Bollywood or South Indian ,a beautiful woman is always described as "fair" and the requirement or a potential bride to be fair is not made just by the bridegroom .
My guess is that because colourism pervades the culture and Mindy grew up being made to feel she was too dark especially by fellow South Indians (particularly men) ,she opted out of the culture and because human nature is contradictory she herself has absorbed enough of the colourist notions that she finds herself exclusively attracted to white men .
Thank you for making a video that's not hateful. You can give criticism without being hateful. Wish more people understood that.
True
I actually think a lot of videos are made and aren't hateful, but are accused of being such because people don't like their faves being criticized.
I left a comment a few weeks ago detailing points on why I felt Candace Owens was dangerous, the only responses I got were people telling me I hate Candace, which had absolutely nothing to do with the actual points I'd made.
Yes I agree! I think there are a lot of flaws with mindy kalings shows and portrayals of relationships within them, particularly because south asian and non white leading women can be so rare in shows, and the way the industry works they tend to think ' we will be progressive by giving one south asian woman a platform to write shows about south asians' but forget there are so many different perspectives and stories to be told within that, so the issue lies with the fact that her own insecurities and projections are in all her shows, which then affects the audiences who are watching them.. But instead of saying this, a lot of the comments are just bashing on mindy and no shes not perfect, but what a boring and useless conversation it is to have about this topic when people are just focusing on one individual's life rather than saying things about the overall issue and further, how that problem she has can affect people consuming what she makes and the industry
@Xara K I agree with you. But specifically, talking about Mindy. I've seen hatred when she's discussed. Or people just being racist to South Asian people or disrespecting our culture. Sometimes, I even see hate from South Asian people. Who project their life experience onto her.
I’m an Independent Latino. Bringing up the subject without criticize ?? Do your homework is the same as saying, “ I envy, her, but the good envy.”….Hello, is still Envy…….Boring.
She can keep her preferences. I just don’t want her to throw in a black guy just for “diversity” and just to shut us up.
She is doing that in Velma.
I felt like that was Velma too. And I LOVED “Never have I ever”. I’m not Indian American but just loved the character. My family doesn’t resemble hers but I felt empathy for her. It was lovely, heartfelt, and hit all the feels. I don’t need to grow up in a culture to feel empathy. Sometimes “representation” goes too far and ignores the struggles so many share. Rather than embracing what so many go through despite different cultures and races. This show did a great job of representing universal struggles for kids, IMO.
Velma is racist and hateful though. I can’t. It makes me wonder if this is who she is. A hateful, nasty person.
I agree ☝🏿
hey she casted a 30-yo white passing half Asian as a teenage love interest, that's progress right?
@@edithputhy4948*quarter Asian
Omg, omg, omg - when she quoted Mindy, “White guys hit on me, Indian men didn’t” raises the added point of her facing colourism by Indian men. Let’s be honest, Mindy would not be considered pretty in South Asian households at all including by women and especially by brown men by and large when they are looking for mates because she is dark and doesn’t have petite feminine features. My cousin, who I believe is way more attractive than Mindy, has the same issue because she is dark and gets approached by foreign men, especially black men, which she gladly reciprocates.
My cousin and I are south asian-Bangladeshi Bengali, just like Mindy who is half Bengali - I can empathize with her sentiment entirely when men from your own background don’t even consider you
When I heard that line too it does bring up some conflict because there are many times when black nerds on the internet say black girls or guys didn't like me when I was in school only white guys or girls did and then the comments come about differently. It's hard for me to say.
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
Well did you guys like the black guys back? Or no not really because they were dark?
That's a two way street you know.
@@Rayutomotoseriously. It’s weird seeing all these comments where people are saying that because Mindy was not considered attractive by a lot of men from her culture that she has a strong preference for white men. Like I don’t follow how we jumped from not SA men to only white men lol
This is true. Indian men don't hit on me either. But white men hit on me lol.
i’m a brown girl like her and it’s so obvious that she hates being brown and just portrays her insecurities regarding race in her films 😭 they’re entertaining but it’s so prevalent that it becomes obvious that she has a distaste towards south asian culture
Fr,like honestly I get being insecure since us Indians basically grow up idealising the west ,but with her it's obvious she just doesn't wanna be indian at all.She portrays our culture weirdly too, seems like she does surface level research on things and portrays them onscreen 🤷♂️
also as brown girl, I just dont see it. It just feels like she's getting so much scrutiny because she's a brown woman and people expect her to cater to everyone else except herself and her own experiences.
i agree, and I get it i have a very complicated relationship w south asian culture but seeing that distaste on western media is extremely hard to swallow, esp when written by a south asian woman. I couldn’t finish the Mindy Project or Never Have I ever bc they simply felt so catered toward White people. I didn’t feel any connection to the main character in Never Have I ever as a female Pakistani young adult, though the show does show some aspects of south asian culture it felt forced and almost similar to the idea of a diversity hire. I think Bridgerton did a better job at making me feel heard and represented compared to her work which is saying something as only one season, and a portion of it, really covers South Asian culture and it’s not written by someone south asian. I think yes her work breaks the south asian trope, but not in a way that really represents most South Asian struggles or culture. Instead she feeds into newer tropes that are believed amongst or celebrated by White Americans: the loud and tone deaf south asian that cannot read the room and tends to make a fool out of themself.
I also think it’s weird that all her work surrounds a south asian woman or girl trying to get a man as though our value and only thing worth watching is our romantic pursuits. That was one thing that pissed me off about Never Had I ever, i thought I was walking into a show that was comedic but would finally voice some of the struggles I had as a teen which my friends and I would discuss hours on end. Instead Mindy paints south asian women as 2D characters who’s only pursuit in life is to gain a mediocre man. By doing so I think it further cements privileged audiences perception of south asian women as “other than” with willy nilly struggles rather that true beings that deserve respect and empathy.
I don’t blame Mindy for this, i think she was dealt a difficult card. But I think it’s important to note that she was allowed to succeed because her work was presented in gentrified vite sized pieces that Hollywood gobbled up. By doing so other south asian voices aren’t given a fair amount representation because Hollywood sees Mindys work as having done the job.
Tf
Hey Amanda! I wrote that Substack article you mentioned around 16:35 and listed in the description as one of your sources. As a longtime subscriber of your channel, I'm so excited that you read my article! Great video as always!
I definitely agree with you -- I don't think Mindy is intentionally telling woc to give terrible white men a chance, but that pattern in her work feels tiresome now. Above all, I think she's received an unbelievable level of hate recently (linked to her new show Velma) that feels entirely too personal.
hey Shailee your writing is awesome! It was a great source to use and yes I agree! The vitriol she's receiving is really disheartening :/
I haven’t watched Velma but the hate is terrible and suspiciously intense (aka bigoted). It’s one of those instances that scares me about putting my work out to the world..
I do think that if Velma didn’t take an long existing IP like Scooby Doo, it would’ve not received the same level of vitriol. It put her in a place where those who wouldn’t normally interact with her work are now seeing whatever flaws are in her work and it’s being further amplified outside of her regular audience.
Plus it’s a pattern rn in so many depictions of fiction… I think some studios or writers or casting panels/directors are having a hard time with feeling like if they cast poc in interracial relationships (or cast the entire movie with a multitude of non-white POC actors) then they are ignoring their white audience. I could be wrong but it’s telling when most stories nowadays that are trying to be diverse are still casting white love interests as a way of saying, “look at us! Diversity!” without realising that non-white interracial couples exist.
Imo this adds to the fact that there is still internalised racism and blatant racism towards other diverse cultures within other cultures (even the black community bc there is still anti-Asian/Indian racism there tbh) and a lot of white exceptionalism when it comes to the world of romance and love. That’s why I hate when right wing grifters make racism a western, solely American “problem”…. It’s not, this shit is worldwide lol even Korea has its issues with “light skin” vs “dark skin” in their respective culture so hopefully in the future more writers/etc. who aren’t just infatuated with white European beauty standards will include couples of diverse cultures .. even if the story is a dramatic one, toxic one, etc.
You do know she’s admitted to crossing decorum lines with male hires with unwanted/unscripted kisses and using tongue when she’s not supposed to without consent? Worst part is she also admits to using her power over others to threaten firing staff when they pushed back on her on set actions and brought up that she can be sued for it. She openly & proudly admitted to this on a Conan O’Brian interview to a laughing audience. You can easily find video of this online as well as articles written about those incidents.
People have been canceled for far less. I certainly draw the line at things beyond criticism & holding someone accountable. Anyone threatening or making racial statements are the low hanging fruit of universally condemnable statements and are part of the onslaught of online social terrorism. That shouldn’t be used as a shield to deflect or free from said accountability & criticism as well.
It’s amazing how quickly feminists (something she has identified as repeatedly as well as her defenders) have thrown off the masks and openly admit it’s no longer about equality but about power, revenge, and supremacy. All men will pay regardless if they are part of the 1% who perpetuate the same systems that oppress everyone to varying degrees while the common man with no real power other than over themselves suffers under this now systemic ideology. Just like how the feminists weaponize platforms to slander an entire gender because of the actions of individuals, now the same energy is returned back on the ideological cult when there are clear abuses of power.
It’s the problem of writing herself into all of her characters. I loved the Mindy Project because that was her first big solo project and kind of made that clear and having an adult character act like that was more endearing for some reason (maybe because you don’t expect adult characters to learn from their mistakes as quickly). I love the representation but not when it’s the same representation every time. I also dislike how Mindy’s shows have the female leads objectify men and call it feminism. It gets creepier and creepier and her female leads come across as shallow. I feel like 90% of people who grew up unpopular or who weren’t valued for their looks and have a “glow up” don’t treat people based on the number of abs they have. Seeing Kimberly, Devi, and Bela do it just doesn’t feel right.
Yes, my thoughts exactly! She's a great writer sometimes and I wish the men in her later shows weren't objectified in that way. It's particularly uncomfortable in The Sex Lives..
This is a brilliant analysis. One of the reasons I think her show ended on such a weird note was because she ONLY seemed to care about landing a man and that was her only obsession. It seemed as tho once she portrayed herself as finding that man, she had no other ideas like some sort of dream had been realized
@@Xara_K1 everyone in the writer room have stand in for themselves, its just previously the writer room had a bunch of white people so it wasn't as obvious.
Exactly! The Mindy Project is one thing. But repeating the narrative of pursuing a mediocre white male while working toward the “American Dream” in teen and college comedies is too much. I don’t know if she realizes she’s promoting propaganda that can be harmful for impressionable young girls and women.
@@Xara_K1 I feel like she landed the man in season 4, and still recognized she wasn’t happy. Then she finally understood herself (and Danny grew up and stop being controlling) they finally could make it work. I kinda felt like it was implying that getting the man isn’t the prize. It’s about being happy with yourself.
Her and Kenya Barris are In similar boats to me. They keep writing “their story” and their story just becomes one narrative that they keep repeating over and over. It’s three shows in a row now. Do what you want, but critics will speak.
Bingo.
This 👏🏾👏🏾
except Kenya's writing is just plain bad on top of it
💯💯💯
Yes! And both Mindy and Kenya center whiteness in their stories.
You should talk about how her brother pretended to be black to get into med school and was talking down about affirmative action when he is in the fact of minority and didn't see himself as minority. 🤡🤡
And he only got accepted into one school of the many he applied to, they told him directly that his race wasn’t a factor of his admission, and he flunked out of the program.
Did she support him directly or smth? I didn’t think that he was super close with her. If he is that’s different but if they aren’t close then it would be incredibly unfair to judge her based off of her family’s mistakes. Sydney Sweeney recently outright defended her choice to attend a family birthday party with multiple people wearing Blue Lives Matter and anti-vax shirts and fans still went to bat for her. So many people have family members who support things against their beliefs, and they definitely don’t just back up opposing beliefs because of family ties. Again, if she defended her brother or something it’s a different narrative, but if he’s trying to use her name to profit off of HIS problematic choices, I don’t think she should be blamed.
She should made a show about that that more interesting then Velma
@@leeh4669 I don't think the og poster meant we should blame Mindy for her brother's actions, but more so look at how they both have issues with their own identities and their views on race and culture which most likely stem from their upbringing which is way too common in Asian households. Not to compare Mindy and her brother because their situations and what they have done or currently do are very different. It's just interesting to see how this issue is not only societal, but familial in a lot of cases and it's very unfortunate.
@misscutesy8034 fs that could totally be possible, and i see your point! it does seem like her brother’s actions were one of those weird conservative “thought experiments” to prove a problematic or racist point, and he has been featured in a lot of right-wing magazines like the NY Post. while mindy has issues with idealizing white men, and has made black and brown characters end up with white love interests, she has never indicated that she believes the same thing as him, and like amanda said in the video a ton of it comes from her self-hatred/shame around her identity. her brother wrote in an article that his friends in college suggested he disguise himself as black and introduced him to the weird ideas about affirmative action he’s going around spreading, although i do agree that he could have heard them growing up too he’s only said he developed them in college. so i think that before people start blaming her for his actions or saying that her issues with self-hatred are the same thing we should try and see if she actually supports him. i’m absolutely down to talk about anti blackness in the asian community and biases across groups of oppressed people in general, but she should be brought into that conversation if she actually supports those beliefs.
I think it's important to remember that Mindy came into her own in the entertainment world during the early 2000's which was a completely different time as far as diversity and tolerance towards brown women is concerned.
I feel like a big part of her early career was dependent on the friendships she made with successful white male writers and pros in her field like BJ Novak. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of her choices now are informed by those existing relationships or a subconscious bias towards people who helped her in the past. Just My two cents as a brown SE Asian who worked in entertainment for a bit.
Great point.....
This makes a lot of sense! You've explained it really well!
@s j if it's a white on white romance, then that's just every other "mainstream" blockbuster. 🥱
she's not in the same position anymore though. I understand why on The Mindy Project she may have had to do this, but her new shows still follow the same formulas. It's tiring, and we can't sit here and say she doesn't have an obvious bias towards white men. If that's her preference then fine, but doing it in every show just because she feels the need to insert her own preferences into all the preferences of the female characters she writes, makes it start to reek or self-hatred. That along with all the Indian jokes that revolve around appearance. She's just not very subtle about her self-hatred which makes for such an awkward watch of her shows.
Most of her love interest in her dramas looks like Novak too
I'll always remember this joke in the first episode of The Mindy Project where Mindy jokes about black guys liking her because she's thick. Which put in the context of her love interest throughout the show and general lack of black people is questionable to say the least.
Yess, that’s the episode that turned me off
we could also get into how p much every black woman on that show fit a stereotype but that's a different can of worms......
@@camdenhunt7565 anti-Blackness in non-Black POC populations strikes again! 😔
Like white men aren’t just as capable of objectifying women’s bodies???
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
When you said at 10:54 "where is the line between expressing truth with what -appears to be - internalized racism, and then creating something that perpetuates those same ideas that hurt you?" .............that was a major mic drop moment for me.
Thanks for being insightful❤❤
"write what you know" doesn't equal repeatedly writing self inserts. she needs to mix it up. but i don't have a specific problem w mindy, i'm just sick of every couple on tv being either 2 white ppl or an interracial couple. it just seems like poc aren't allowed to exist on screen without an avenue for white viewers to feel relevant. realistically most of us date within our race so it's truly forced
Books have this issue too. A primary example is that YA book Legendborn where the black protagonist is a token surrounded by white people, with two white love interests. If all the characters had been black, it wouldn’t have been as popular.
@@andiman44 Really? I haven't noticed, but I suppose that's because many of the books I read are newer and/or written by queer/poc authors (due to preference), but good to know
also the fact that I only read novels about animals in my elementary-middle school years
EXACTLY. Im over interracial couples with a white partner. Can we have some same race poc couples for a change?
Yeah the real problem with a lot of these shows is that if white people are not in dominant roles or featured prominently they just won’t watch. I think this is due to them being the default in shows for so long that it’s hard for them to suspend belief and see themselves in stuff that’s labeled as “other.” And tv execs only care about money, so they pay lip service towards actual meaningful diversity
I remember when I first watched Never Have I Ever I really liked Devi and Ben together, but upon rewatch and after reading a really interesting reddit post that spoke about words and action from Ben that can be considered microaggressions I stopped liking them as a couple. I actually found the character development of Paxton to be really great and it seems like both he and Devi have reached a more stable point in life. I feel like Ben could be a decent love interest if they give development and have him realize the impact of his words more but in the meantime, I agree that it ends up falling into the pattern of a white male love interest treating the lead badly and still getting to be with them regardless of their behavior.
I'd be interested in reading that Reddit post, any chance you could share it?
@@carlakunakey217 I tried to link it but the comment disappeared, but it's called "The Problem with Ben (part 2)" by u/WhistleFeather13 on r/NeverHaveIEverShow
@@roseprescott1476 thanks, I found it! It brought up so pretty good points
I haven't fully watched all of Mindy's stuff but I watched a good way into season 1 of the Mindy Project. And going in I was pretty sure she ends up with or at least dates Danny and in one episode he literally tells her "you'd look better if you lost 15 pounds" and i was floored and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Like how are you going to have someone say this to your character and then have you date them? Things that the men she dates say to her are so not ok. I keep thinking like this is your own show and you are going to let that be a part of it? It just doesn't sit right with me
@@hippinoire characters saying obviously problematic things in a funny way is pretty much the core of Mindy Kaling's comedy, Mindy's characters also say outrageous shit all the time and it's part of what makes it so funny
I wonder how being a dark skinned Indian woman from a colourist community has played into her decisions
What can be done to self hating Mindy wanting to be a white girl she is the problem not her community
Cant be more colourist than the people that invented colourism
What?
Yeah she’s not the victim in this scenario
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
This video was so well done! It’s also interesting the kind of hate Mindy Kaling gets as opposed to other writers/producers who have been called out for similar things like Shonda Rhimes. I think Mindy’s self-inserts/the fact she often plays as her own characters make her catch more vitriol. Though the criticisms against her are valid, she’s still a pioneer in the industry and I hope that the success of her shows makes space for other kinds of representation!
I think the difference is with Shonda Rhimes even when her characters feel like familiar self inserts she casts different races to play the same type of character
Yeah no with Shonda it’s different because the characters aren’t usually guy crazy. For example yes Olivia in Scandal preferred white guys BUT not only did she date other sort of men before but she had a different temperament. Olivia also looked like a proud, unambiguous black woman and who wasn’t a 10 in looks but damned if you didn’t believe it looking at her. Olivia wasn’t mediocre she was extraordinary and just had a life of her own outside relationships. She also didn’t suffer from internalized racism. Mindy characters’ are almost always the same love crazed girl that’s unconventional in looks and aiming for the approval of white guys. And hates her culture. Night and day differences. No one could say Shonda’s characters are disrespecting of their cultures they’re proud of it and they demand others respect it too which is why we’re still talking about Scandal. Heck Shondaland played Indian culture much better and respectful than Mindy Kaling ever did in Bridgerton. It was beautiful to see how Shondaland did homage to Indian culture in S2. And Kate in that wasn’t some boy crazy chick yearning for a white guy’s approval she held her own. So imagine that Mindy as a proper Indian descent woman can’t manage this while a black woman could. Apples to oranges with these too.
@@AB-sm1qf Well said 💯
Shonda Rhimes is trash too but the big difference is Shonda Rhimes doesn't star in her own projects. She can hide behind the characters.
@@QNPMEDIA she also doesn't do the exact same thing like yeah greys anatomy was too much and killing off characters and just finding a struggle is not my thing but atleast her characters are a lot better people and don't hate themselves.
The problem is not her liking white men or even putting Indian girls with white men, I don’t even think that’s anyone’s place to criticize her on. The problem would be with hating on her own culture or displaying anti-Indian sentiments.
Really?? anti indian sentiment which movie?
Yeah
she should be criticized for that too.
@@WastedBananas for what? Liking white men? Pairing Indian girls with white men? Having a preference for white men? Which of these things hurt you or Indian people?
Agree. The other issue is how she objectifies and obsesses over the white men to an almost nth degree. It's honestly really creepy, especially coming from an influential writer/actor like her, and it kinda worries me that no one is calling her out on this more.
This is such a thoughtful, contextualized, comprehensive, and deeply humanizing video essay about a complex issue. Thank you so much for taking the time to create and post this video.
As a huge Mindy Kaling fan, I have to admit that I missed her clear self esteem issues for a long time because she's such a brilliant creative that she manages to hide her issues in relatable comedy. I think it was also hidden from me because many of us as Black and African people think self hate is only for us so I just saw her white male interest as immaterial, but then I started rewatching her show, which I LOVE, and I noticed that Mindy is actually VERY entrenched in white pop culture and only sees herself relative to it and seeks to entrench herself in it.
I also think the presence of others who look like her is a moot point; Issa Rae has shown that u most definitely can create the representation u wanna see when u get a shot.
You’re speaking to my heart rn
It comes off as if Mindy is deeply invested in the propaganda and wants the audience to be too.
africans are black (excluding most north africans and white south africans)
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
CRINGE
as a desi girl acclimating in the western world, its TIRING to see Mindy Kaling's representation of indian girls. Just her being the one and only desi woman I saw growing up was huge for me, not gonna lie, but there is no intersectionality, there's things she gets wrong about our own culture, she barely includes any actual references from desi culture, like the movies we grew up watching or the songs we grew up listening (something I actually saw done really well in Ms. Marvel). I honestly feel like she just writes herself into her characters, and being born and raised in USA, she doesn't really represent all of us. She needs to look a little outwards when writing things.
I think you perfectly stated how or where the blurry line becomes a little clearer when it comes to “internalized racism” & literally just “writing your experience”…not to mention Mindy as a dark-skinned Indian woman in tv/film has already made huge steps for inclusion & the industry…but at the same time it does feel problematic or lowkey then becomes detrimental-feeling sometimes when you have those within our BIPOC communities having these patterns/“preferences” they continually show which then reinforces our beauty standards and the limits opportunities to see genuine +happy BIPOC family & relationship dynamics on the screen play out… anyways, thanks again for the extra food for thought & research + hot take on this topic & her as a whole with this debate-in as unbiased +constructive criticism as you could fr we love the diligence 🫶🏾❕
As a black guy, I remember watching SCANDAL a few years ago where despite the show's other problems, I would defend the fact that the black female lead is in a love triangle with two white guys. I get it, the series isn't trying to code itself as a "black" show, but a "general audiences show which happens to have a black female lead." If both love interests where black, the casting choice could feel conspicuous from another angle, if only one of them were a person of color ... then the entire dynamic becomes even more inescapably tied to race. I can only remember seeing a few episodes of The Mindy Project during its first season and I'm not familiar with Kaling's other stuff. But even if she really just is "writing what she knows" it still feels like this bizarre oversight to have your brown lead ONLY date white people. It might be one thing if simply the main love interest in an individual show is white, but if your lead character has like 10 boyfriends or girlfriends in your show and they are all white, you have to know that people are going to ask questions. Even Joe Goldberg had two black girlfriends.
I find interesting everytime people mentioned Scandal and the issue with Olivia's dating choices, yet all Black men on the show dated White or others but no one seems to have an issue with it. I wonder why?
@@emileigh6524 I really think your argument is invalid. He just mentioned the the white dude from You having two black love interests and it not being an issue. He’s simply pointing out a lack of diversity in the character’s dating history.
@@mcharlton67 Yet the black dudes all date white women. Thats not a lack of diversity in characters dating??
Brown men do same thing they only date blonde women and make fun of brown women
I don't care that her love interests are white, that may just be her experience and preference because we all know that many brown and Black men are colorist and hate women who look like Mindy.
I care that her love interests are assholes and her characters are written to be self-hating.
I may have read your comment incorrectly but were you insinuating White men aren't colorist?
@@55CINCO55 we both know that isn't what the comment meant, why are you trying to bait?
@ That's what her comment sounded like lol. If white, brown, and black men were equally colorist, why would their still be a preference for white men?
@@55CINCO55 No you're right. It's weird when people act like it's okay exclusively date white men because men of color are mean and colorist (and they definitely are. Not trying to dismiss that in anyway). Like white men also behave like this in mass, yet we have space for nuance for them but not black and brown men?
And it's a bit weird we want to put this on their behavior. Mindy lived in a super white town, went to a super white school and college. And pursued a super white career path. She got her start as a diversity hire. She was in these all white spaces while fantasizing about being a female lead in white romcoms.
And at the center of the issue is that she is not writing the world she lived in. It looks crazy when you write like this in a more diverse setting. Convey the isolation you experienced being surrounded by white people. She's only writing half the story.
@@55CINCO55 because a lot of women of color like to justify THEIR colorism + self hatred with worshipping white men. It makes zero sense logically.
We all know blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin is the beauty standard in white community. So if she can sift through the white men who prefer that standard, why can’t she do the same with HER group of men???
Oh yeah, because they arent white 😂😂😂 they don’t deserve that luxury, they are brown. Complete bs
I've been watching a lot of her shows, and I loved your nuanced take on it! It mirrors a lot of the thoughts I've been having. I also wonder how much of what she writes is for commercial success, as opposed to what aligns with her values. Idk! She is a trailblazer in so many ways, and her writing has big strengths and big weaknesses. Maybe I don't know enough about writing in a writer's room, but it seems like an easy way to escape the "write what you know" issue would be to create a writer's room of people who can collaborate with you to step outside what you know (cuz it's what they know, etc). I find that's just not something writers want to do a lot of the time, because they really want their own story/voice to shine if finally given the opportunity, which is so so hard to come by at times, particularly in Mindy's case. It's a really important conversation to be had, and though Mindy can def do better in some aspects, I just wish it didn't all have to fall on her shoulders.
thank u! and I agree! also I think the writer's room point is true. Season 1 of The Mindy Project was mostly white dudes besides Kaling herself. I'm sure Never Have I Ever and College Girls have more women, poc, and lgbtq+ writers bc they're representing much more diversity of characters.
@@amandamaryanna It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
@@ronanyomu5967 Indians want to be white, though.
The thing you said about boys bullying you when they like you because they're emotionally immature and most definitely misogynistic was SO RIGHT. There's a real life example of that around me rn and it immediately reminded me of that guy. Great video btw!!
@@boilaknezzi8974 its bcz those boys’ misogynistic way of thinking makes them feel like love makes you weak and they dont wanna feel weak because of a girl so they bully her to hide the fact that his feelings made him feel less suprerior to her, its like he’s blaming her for making him feel vulnerable bcz his heart and emotions want her.
I remember hearing that growing up and it led to a lot of dangerous relationships at a young age "graveyard love" at ages 14-17. With my kids (boy & girl ) I said if someone is mean to you it doesn't mean they like you it means they DON'T respect you and to not give that person any attention or chance if they are treating you like that. No way did I want my kids with anyone who would resort to breaking them down to build themselves up.
i have several white men who have done this to me.
That’s not misogyny you weirdo. If he’s “bullying you” bcose of insecurity how’s that misogyny??
@ your comment about why you think boys are misogynistic when they do this. Is perhaps the single dumbest thing I have read in this entire comment section. Talk about brain washed. The sickness is deep with that kind of twisted logic. It's just immature kids. I guess when girls do it it becomes some kind of saintly tortured exercise in how girls are not being heard. SMH pure insanity from you.
This reminds me of colorism in the black community. I understand her to a degree because it truly is all she knows. I don't think she chose those men in her real life just because, she was rejected by her community in a way (you'll probably notice many dark skin Indian men dating out their race too), at some point she does it because that's her only option, later on it became a preference. If she grew up in mostly white spaces, other Indian men did too and were probably pursuing white women for the same reasons she did. 🤷🏿♀️ I think she definitely should've picked a more diverse cast but hey, so many poc men do this, except they do it behind the screen, so idk which is worse.
That could be valuable to explore onscreen. The experience of being harmed by colorism in the Indian community. But I’m sure media uplifting white and light skin plays a role in what’s viewed as normal or expected. So as a creator and writer, she has the power to create images in media that challenge what has become the norm. In her shows she has the ability to meaningfully work through or address those issues. Instead she uplifts white men, consistently, while barely exploring why men of color seem entirely out of the question. She could be doing more, but also we need more darkskinned women of all backgrounds to be in the position to make shows based of their experiences and worldviews too.
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
@@basketweaver912to be fair, you wouldn’t probably want to uplift people who were not interested in you. Is it fair to expect her to see their point-of-view?
@@crissoa we’ll said. It’s confusing why she would be responsible for elevating and uplifting those who rejected her.
@@crissoa I get that point. I also get that her characters are not her. They may be informed by her personal experiences, but they aren’t her. So in the artistic process of creating her characters, she can portray them as having relationships she’s never had herself personally. I think she could’ve played with the idea more across her work, but yes that would have taken some imagination on her part. Some ‘what if another Indian girl or woman had a different experience than mine in relation to their dating partners’ type of exploration. But also, more than Mindy engaging in a bit more self reflection and maybe imagination (my humble thoughts) I would love to see more darkskin women of all races producing shows and sharing their perspectives on screen.
Honestly great nuanced analysis of everything. I can’t help but be convinced that her obsession with white guys stems from some form of self-hate. I’m a second gen Indian girl who grew up in the states, and I remember going through a similar phase myself when I was younger. In the 90s and 2000s in America, thin white blonde girls with blue eyes and big boobs were considered the epitome of beauty, and when I’d watch Bollywood movies, all the big actresses were just as light skinned as the white people id see in western media. That and people constantly putting me down for my darker complexion made me hate my brown skin, as well as anything else that made me look Indian. My self esteem was so low, and I remember preferring to date white guys all throughout college, likely because I really needed that validation from them. I think a part of me thought that if I married a white guy, my kids would never have to hear the horrible comments I heard about my skin color growing up. Looking back on it it all sounds so fucked up.
After college I finally grew out of that mentality and now I absolutely loveeeee anything and everything that ties me to my Indian roots, including (and especially) my skin tone. I wouldn’t change a single thing about who I am or where I came from, but it took a long time to get to this point.
And that’s why I feel so uncomfortable watching a lot of mindy kaling’s works… when I watch them I get the feeling that she’s still stuck in that toxic mindset of wanting to remain as close in proximity to whiteness as possible, that it gives her that sense of validation and acceptance she needs from them.
And before y’all come at me like “iTs oKaY fOr hEr tO hAvE pReFeREnCEs” yeah of course I get that, we all have our preferences!! But whenever I see a person of color who’s ONLY into white people, I can’t help but give a little side eye. You can’t just ignore all the social and cultural factors that are likely causing that highly specific preference.
This is coming in at the BEST time; my friends & I (all WOC) were just discussing this in our groupchat after rewatching some of her work that we LOVED when we were younger (The Mindy Project especially)
What a journey it is to grow & become more aware of the deficits that exist even within shows that provide much needed representation. As many already said: Mindy is not a bad person, her insecurities are just pervasive throughout her work, which can potentially be harmful for younger WOC consuming her content (I sure as hell know it was for me & how I built romantic relationships as I got older). Great video!
So you want her to be with a black guy?
@@icomeinpeace3756 you just flew past the point there
Thank you for articulating the point I’ve been trying to put into words for the last 20 minutes😭 I feel like content creators as a whole, whether they’re apart of traditional or internet media, have an issue with understanding the implications of their work once it’s cast out to a wider audience. And Mindy is in a position where she’s disproportionately influential given that she’s THE representative character on TV for her intersection of identities. White ppl and even some POC don’t have to navigate their work with such a large burden bc there are many other people with a large platform who are like them. So yeah, her characters can definitely be harmful but casting the blame for that harm exclusively onto her ignores that piece of it
@@icomeinpeace3756 lmao how did you come to that conclusion?
@@borger6514 yeah but after 10 years why isn't she highlighting other South Asian women. Do an Oprah and share the spotlight instead of holding onto to that model minority myth. She's made her money and gotten the limelight. Share with others so other stories can be told
Most white writers and other writers of color choose to write parts of themselves into many of their lead characters just as Mindy Kaling has done. We as viewers just don't notice it or bother calling it out because most complex characters with depth on television and film have been white for so long! It's only noticeable now with Mindy Kaling because literally no other well-known screenwriters are South Asian women, so most of Mindy's brown female characters are automatically labeled to be her "self-inserts" even if she did make an effort to give them different personalities and interests from herself. It's a shame that the term "self-insert" is used to disparage Mindy Kaling's writing talent as well as other POC writers, when white male writers and even many white female writers are much more prevalent in writing self-insert characters yet don't receive much vitriol for it the way Kaling has!
Yeah, i think that’s why all the Mindy hate seems off to me. It’s moved past critique of the shows to straight up dragging her. And the irony of it all is that non-POC people don’t have to deal with this😂
You are the hero we do not deserve.
I mean, there’s more than just white men who can be love interests. Latino, Indigenous Americans, East and South Asian men, Black men etc.
I don’t think she has ill intent, but I personally appreciate a bit more imagination from tinsel town as a whole when it comes to characters and I like the idea of more opportunities for actors and writers of color so we can have more Mindys telling new stories.
However to each their own and it’s her art, her stories etc. but people are gonna notice the pattern and comment/critique.
If I only dated and wanted a certain race, I’d want to pause and be like, “ Do they HAVE to be only that race?” And if so, why? Not necessarily should you have to date outside your comfort zone, but I think It’s an interesting and relevant topic to explore personally and perhaps through one’s art.
The last five men you dated what race were they?Also when was the last time a male love interest was Native American, Asian, Latino (all varieties), Arican portrayed in mainstream Hollywood. But now Mindy has to be the one to do so. Give me a phuckhing break from this pseudo intellectualism.
White Latino exist tho (and are the ones who are typically represented) so you might want to specify when you say Latino
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
@@firandcurly84 I feel like you didn’t read my comment. I said it’s her art and she she can do whatever she wants.
@@whoisashanyways I meant Afro-Latino or Mestizo? I’m not sure of the right terminology, so feel free to add anything.
It's interesting because Paxton was cast under the assumption that he was white and wasn't until afterwards that they realized he was Japanese and included that into the show and even changed his name to Paxton Hall-Yoshida
It is also interesting that Ben wasn't a love interest at first but got promoted to a love interest. Qwhite the coincidence don't you think...
@@birdiewolf3497 Ben is Jewish. Also, the racism is is becoming very obvious, who cares if a brown woman wants to be with a white man? Aren’t y’all the same people who are all for interracial relationships?
I think you did a good job of showing the nuances of how preferences work especially in dating & attraction. We always say that writers write from their experiences but they can also write from their wishes of how they would like to see the world as well or how they would like to experience the world for themselves (speaking as a writer myself). There can definitely be a possibility of wish fulfillment when Kaling writes her Indian leads with white romantic interests. I love romantic movies and shows so whenever I would watch them I would place myself as the leading lady who was always white and the interest was always a white man. It took me a long time to broaden my perspective on who I found attractive in a sexual or romantic way, and even more time to build relationships with people outside of my comfortable environment and confront my unconscious bias. It’s really uncomfortable but it’s a necessary growth. Kaling is a successful, accomplished woman who has broken barriers. Whatever her pathologies are, it’s hers to contend with if she chooses. I hope these think pieces pushes creatives to add to her legacy and make more stories instead of complain for her to change. Let’s keep progressing!
This!!!!
This is such a good comment
Yes! Well put.
So well written!! 🤎🤎
another example: des and devi breaking up in never have I ever so she could go back to her white boy love triangle. I was so excited to see a young south asian couple be represented like that, but of course that was ended pretty quickly
They did him wrong 😤
That’s why Ms Marvel is superior, Kamala had 1 white love interest but then 2 brown love interests! Mindy could never
He deserved it.
ya i was confused why he obeys his mom like that. i’m brown but barely listen to my mom like that
@@notaburneraccount yeah they did Des wrong lol. I’m still holding out hope that Ben is not the guy she ends up with tho😂
Your question regarding the line between expressing truth/experience and internalized racism is a really insightful question.
i love the indian culture, i enjoyed never have i ever, i really wanted devi to end up with the indian guy but they did him dirty in the show and portrayed him as a mommy’s boy, while ben, the white dude who was always mean to her apparently was the right choice all the way, i know people change and whatever but still, im not over it
Yeah they did Des wrong smh
Ben is Jewish.
@@themanofshadows okay, ben the white jewish love interest, better? i’m still not over it
Not gonna lie but a lot of Indian guys are just like him
@@Progress234 Lmao, you have any data??? Don't hide white fantasy here.
honestly, this is how you see how different ppl from different countries are, my friends and I never even paid attention to the race of Mindy's boyfriends on the Mindy project, we just loved the show because it showed a poc that did not fit in the boundaries of her race and that connected with me as a black girl who has always had issues with ppl judging me because I wasn't like the other African black girls when it came to my personality habits, interests and thoughts.
If the white dudes are stepping to her and the indian dudes do not, well….. 🤷🏽♀️
Exactly.
Despite being Bengali myself, I really didn't like The Mindy Project. I watched series 1-3 and couldn't stand Danny. I also hated how obsessed it was with romance, given that I'm aromantic.
In never have I ever my impression of Ben is that he starts out as Devi s rival .They have been rivals from the time they were little because they are both the most brilliant students in class. Both Devi and Ben are generally unpleasant towards each other throughout the series mostly because of this rivalry . At one point Devi even wishes out loud in a history class that Ben (who is Jewish ) had been killed by Nazis . So they generally have a history of making inappropriate comments towards each other .
When they both give on to their underlying romantic feelings for each other and Ben is on his best behaviour it is Devi who cheats on Ben in the end
But it was Ben who was the instigator. That was a reason why Ben had no friends. He was an unpleasant person to be around. Like everyone collectively thought this. Devi would just retaliates to Ben's asshole comments because she has anger issues. They had a moment in season one where they talk about this. Ben was in a relationship with another girl where he spoke down to her as well.
Devi doesn't do that.
@@birdiewolf3497 Devi is problematic as well .She may not speak down to her love interests but she can be manipulative and self centered and even when both Ben and Paxton made themselves vulnerable to her she went out of her way to sabotage those relationships.
I also don't think a whole rivalry from the time they were kids was driven by Ben alone. They are both hyper competitive type A personalities who hate to lose and have their good and bad sides ,when Devi pushed all her friends away and left home ,Ben was there for her ,accommodated her and drove her to the place her father's ashes were being scattered.
@@MsDiMera2 I know Devi is problematic. It's kinda of the point to her character. But when Devi is problematic it is treated as a bad thing she needs to work on. While Ben never has to apologize for being an asshole. It's a personality quirk that people randomly decided they're okay putting up with now. And even if you want to say Ben's not an asshole. It's falls into the trap of white love interest that constantly pick at the protagonist's insecurities for fun. Like Mindy and Devi have such a negative self image and its like why continue to partner with someone who feeds that beast? I just think Mindy needs to write more love interests that are affirming. Instead of this let's be nasty towards each other and call it love. She goes too far with it. And even though I don't care for Ben, he can certainly do better than a person that wished he'd get killed by Nazis and constantly making fatphobic comments about his daddy.
That was disgusting. The Nazi joke
They are both toxic
I really appreciate this video and all of the nuance you included. But Mindy Kaling has an impossible standard to meet. Forgive my rant...
Because she's brown - no matter how diverse the casting, no matter how good she attempts to make the representation, people will ALWAYS be mad at her about something. Should she throw away plot points, character progression, character mistakes in a story, all because the audience is demanding two people HAVE to end up together because they're the same race?
I never see these kinds of critiques aimed at white writers. Why the hell are white writers/actors given 10x the leeway as POC? If it's a POC, they have to perfectly represent their entire community and also every other community... She's writing comedies, not making documentaries. Go look at every other comedy that's come out in the last 10 years and tell me how many had better representation and diversity than her shows.
Guess not everyone can effortlessly be Issa Rae
@@feji88 True. But why is that the standard? There are plenty of mediocre white men in media but it’s only POC that must rise to this level of near perfection to escape any kind of criticism. POCs shouldn’t have to create the most eye-opening, perfect, nuanced, entertaining piece of media. It’s a harsh double standard
My thoughts exactly!
I don’t think so her work is great, if she threw in two Indian guys then nobody would have said anything. She just neverrrr did that. BUT look at her show never have I ever, it was perfectttt it covers everything and the main girl dated an Indian guy. In the end she ended up with a white guy. White people/writers are criticised about not being diverse too and always screwing over the POC cast e.g Big Bang Theory and Raj
I agree.
I think she is more self aware than we think. In never have I ever, when Devi had a crush on the other Indian guy in the show they had a scene together where he called out devi for being the type of Indian girl to only date white guys because of her own internalized racism. I thought that was insane that he said that because I've never seen Mindy break the fourth wall and almost call herself out like that
They do it often in The Mindy Project. The jokes arnt explicitly about Mindy Lahiri having internalized racism, but they do a lot about Lahiri only dating white men. I think that’s part of what makes it funny😂
HAHAHAH THE THUMBNAIL IS SO GOOD
It’s definitely weird and a problem that she kissed Lee Pace (a white gay actor) without his consent and instead of apologising when she was told she could be sued, she threatened to fire him.
And the way that Fred is written in Velma is so hateful and mean-spirited.
I'm sorry she did what????
I have very conflicted feelings about this woman. I mean, I'm Southeast Asian and I tend to root for woc but her.. I just don't know why...
@@vitaaviandhono2506 rooting for a literal s*xual assaulter would be pretty weird regardless of their race 🤷
Also worth noting that one scene in Velma where Daphne, out in public, outside a police station was kissing on Fred, and then went to unzip his PANTS. And when he said no, Daphne went "if not now then when???"
Not to mention how the reason for this was chalked up to hormonal issues out of his control, ie. Being a late bloomer and having a small wee. Which is just- his one note as a character. He has a small wee and that's funny. And no one, not even Velma, and by extent Mindy corrects this behavior.
Not to mention that MeToo joke. Its disgusting. She should be in jail
I never even bothered to touch Velma, I salute those who took one for the team
I like the bricks in the background, good new angle
Absolutely agree
she grew up in the era of yt dudes doing the same thing she's doing now - fixating on a certain type of conventionally attractive person (for them it's usually a "pretty" blonde yt girl/woman). i don't think she realizes we don't like. it sucks that the men still get away with it but c'mon mindy...
This video rocks! I was completely oblivious to all the nuances of this criticism of Mindy Kaling, and I love how much care you put into first setting context and understanding for her casting and story lines and then moving on to the problems. At no point did it ever feel condemning, just illuminating. Left this video with so much understanding, thank you!
You articulated this so beautifully, and I appreciate the objectivity and differing viewpoints in this video.
Mindy Kaling's experience as a writer and woman of colour is nuanced and complex. It would be too easy for us to label her a racist and white fetishist, as this issue runs far deeper than Lahiri's dating preferences and writing patterns. The fact that we feel so comfortable delving into and casting judgment on Lahiri's life, dating history, and writing, speaks to the (often detrimental) societal dating expectations placed on women of colour.
I think the criticisms about her writing are part of a much bigger conversation about interracial dating, internalized racism, colonialism (white superiority), and dating (for women/POC) in the 21st century.
We need to consider the time period and experiences of a writer before we jump straight to condemning their work as problematic. At the end of the day, artists are people, who are inherently biased in their work. The greater question here is do artists owe us diversity? And should someone be willing to compromise their artistry for the sake of others...
Well said, I’ve been looking for comments like this one😂 I been saying this over and over again but my issue with the Mindy hate is that people moved from critiquing what they don’t like in her shows (which I totally get bc I’m a fan and I have my own thoughts on Lahiri and Devi) and jumped to Mindy is a racist that hates herself. It’s A dishonest conclusion and the same “self insert” reasoning would not be applied to non-POC. I feel like ppl are completely missing the fact that holding WOC to the type of standard where one person must be the perfect representative for all is also problematic.
I wish more artists believed that diversity should be included in their work, but in Mindy’s case it’s up to her to decide what that looks like. And imo at this point, her existing as herself in mainstream American tv should be enough for one person. I’ll ask again, who else is doing what she’s doing? Maybe the next generation of POC, specifically South Asians Americans, will have the opportunity to provide a more rich and layered representation of their culture in American media.
And it’ll be bc Mindy was trailblazer and cast women to play these roles in her shows when no one else was. Sorry I’m ranting now lol. I’m black I love seeing all the different ways black ppl are represented on tv rn. We got options lol! I cannot wait until American tv embraces all the cultures that live here.
Your taste in video backgrounds are impeccable. Happy to see a new one here 👏🏽
Why should we hold an East Indian woman's preference of worshipping white men, to Black American woman's standards? Let's mind our business
as someone not indian or white I think that the internet always hated Mindy, can't talk about her body and face anymore so now they're attacking her writing. Male writers work the same material over and over again and no one says anything.
Edit: I remember in TMP she dated an Indian man, and what I can remember is that there was a big issue about how she was rised and what Indian expect from her. Too Indian for american men and too American for Indian men type of plot
she's disgusting
There's a line in Never Have I Ever in which the protagonist speaks about how she sees herself in college and she says she won't be attending Indian celebrations and she'll be with her white boyfriend, (I get rejecting traditions as a teen, but envisioning a boyfriend and the only trait is he's white?)
An utterly fantastic video essay. I absolutely wish everyone could have your same approach to this. Context is so unbelievably important but so is constructive criticism. Again, great video!!!
I literally finished the SLOCG 2 finale right before this video went live. Have also been following the discourse around Kaling following the release of Velma. Thank you for talking about this with nuance and without hate.
Personally, it gives off a fetish for whyte men. I always wondered why she didn't have an Indian guy be her love interest. I feel like the excuse she gave was no excuse. She had an opportunity to show Indian ppl, and she didn't. She wrote and played a stereotypical POC fawning over whyte dudes. The only thing she didn't do was have a fake "Indian accent". It would've been groundbreaking if there was an young Indian American couple on TV. Also, her brother did an experiment where he essentially wore blackface and wrote a paper trying to "prove" that black ppl had it easy benefitting from affirmative action. His own experiment proved him wrong yet he still forcefully held onto his original hypothesis even though he was wrong. After learning about her brother, her obsession with whyte men made more sense.
They are dark skinned and probably have a lot of self-hatred. Colorism in Indian community is worse than black community, it’s resulted in worshipping of paler complexions
Are you white
@@estellewarren62 Are you whyte?
It's simple. White women and White men are the most physically attractive. It's why they are most often portrayed in media, people will look longer at beautiful things, it makes more money. People have a really hard time admitting this, especially women of color it seems.
She doesn't owe you an excuse. It's her show.
Mindy is not changing the narrative she is just weaving herself into the white story line. I grew up in Toronto in a 80% South Asian culture. She is a typical stereotype of a colonized South Asian who is hates her dark skin. She even used a white donor for her children. I live in Mass there is a huge South Asian culture Her response to criticism is she represents herself but she used the diversity ticket to gain entry.
Mindy Kaling does not like her dark skin which is typical for most South Asians For her to say she did not see herself represented on TV do you mean Bollywood lets be clear you would never see her skin type in bollywood. It is precisely the openness of Hollywood that would allow a " chubby dark skinned" south asian girl this platform. And what does she do she changes nothing but adds a typical white male interest.
It is deeper than u think, I think her family were teaching her white is right, like almost all Asian households, internalised rasicm. first example her brother, I wish if u brought up her brother cuz hid deep hatred for black ppl is astonishing. I'm sure she have similar feelings being brought up in the same house
Internalized racism exsist in almost all race biased and hate towards other community
Can any interactions, relationships, or friendships with whites be genuine? If so, then why can’t she have her preferences regardless of where she was raised?
I agree! I think people are being a bit too harsh hey.
Indians aren't Asian.
I think it’s crazy that Mindy’s voice is the ONLY Indian-American voice. I mean as far as the mainstream goes, I can’t think of any other Indian woman’s voice in TV. She’s the only game in town. So she is going to get picked apart especially in terms of the love interests she cast. Right now she is kinda looking like EVERY Black rapper with zero Black women in their videos 😂 That being said I think dark skinned women of any race should go where they are celebrated IRL but be like Donald Glover on film. 🤭
Mindy is the comedy Indian girl but not desirable lead material. The only one who was the lead in a primetime drama is Priyanka Chopra with Quantico I think.
@@edithputhy4948 Yes agreed, totally
Dev Patel?
@@madanigaming6595 he's British
I think it’s weird how black women are so pre-occupied with Mindy Kaling’s preference. This isn’t even our community. And you never see other groups speaking out when black men only cast white or the lightest women to be love interests. Everything is not a think piece.
i appreciate that you approach this topic with context and nuance! there’s so many layers and different angles to look at something like this and i think it obfuscates a lot of the truth if it’s only pinpointed as good or bad.
ok but like. this isn’t really black women business this is a discussion for the brown girls honestly i don’t understand why it’s our business
10:26 broke me. I have never in my life looked at romantic love through this lens and it’s mind blowing
Thank you for making a video about this that doesn’t just call her trash the whole time! We love nuance
I mean, it’s ok to not like the ‘Velma’ Reboot but omg people are so instantly vicious.
It's not Scooby Do at all, which is probably why so many people are mad. They shouldn't send hate or be cruel, criticism alone is valid.
@@mewmew6158 I get the whole ‘It isn’t Scooby-Doo’ thing but a lot of it was very uncalled for slander.
The viciousness is uncalled for, absolutely, but the writers strayed SO far from the original story/characters that the characters are explicitly bigoted... like who did they write this show for??
Sadly, White men (and some women) are using WOC’s founded analyses of her work to hate on Velma/spew surface level vitriol that they wouldn’t have been able to get away with as easily prior
@@sj_456 the shows made for adults though
I had no idea she was from Massachusetts,that explains everything. And let's not act like many poc don't develop self hatred about their appearance when growing up around mostly caucasians.
nah she needs to take responsibility for her self hatred not make excuses
Been giving a side-eye to this. Glad someone is talking about it.
I absolutely love the way you made this vid! You didn’t bash her but thoroughly analyzed your observations and critically explained your criticisms! This was a great video.
This is the best take on all the Mindy drama that I have seen so far. Articulate and fair criticism without being too harsh.
I am currently rewatching The Mindy Project and noticed this trend!! Thanks for taking about it!
Loved this video.
My sister told me this like 8 years ago fr but I told her she’s crazy but the signs where there I mean not actually comfortable with herself, skin lightening. Etc and I noticed it myself but tbh I don’t really give a fuck I just love to make my sis angry by disagreeing 😂
I can see why people are saying that Black Women shouldn’t worry about this topic. However, Mindy is writing the black female characters like this too. Look at the love interests Whitney has in SLOCG.
Tamra in Mindy Project always dated the biggest losers! 😣
the problem with mindy is that her female indian characters are always filled with self-hate and always end up with white guys who have been extremely rude and racist toward them. i don't get why she thinks white men being mean, condescending and racist is attractive and something to root for.
I feel like you had fun coming up with some witty lines for this video and you should, these all put a smile on my face. Love this video!
For me, it's the fact that she puts down her own culture the way she does. As a Black Hispanic myself who immigrated to the US in the late 90s. I understand that sadly how heavily pushed the idea of whiteness was thrown at us POC. That when she was younger, she felt like she had to compete with whiteness and some of us have been there. But that is the thing we grow out of it and learn to love ourselves and our culture. But you can tell Mindy hasn't down that, she puts her culture down. Because she still doesn't love herself or her culture. It's sad and she needs therapy. And the other thing is, Like Mindy let that actor BJ go. He clearly doesn't want you, and you making your characters be with the most boring white guys as like a form of manifesting for yourself. Is weird, and he has clearly shown you. He is not going to chose you
Maybe she doesn't like her culture. Caste systems and arranged marriages aren't for everyone.
1. Art is meant to be scrutinized. This includes one’s “experience.”
2. It’s called a caste system for a reason
3. Anti-blackness in Hollywood is a given bc the entire world is covered in it
4. The “evolution” of her appearance
5. No group is monolithic, therefore “representation” will inherently leave someone out, others annoyed
6. Smart, creative people have blindspots, hidden agendas, and unresolved issues - the audience is also responsible for continuing to watch problematic content
let's not forget that she bragged about kissing lee pace on set without his consent on conan, and then joked about blackmailing him after the assault. so many lose sight of the fact that we can understand and hold compassion for those affected by white supremacy, but also respectfully hold creators accountable for problematic behavior. thank you for making this video!
She didn't blackmail Lee Pace, she did it to her writers and producers of the show
My biggest issue with how she writes is that all her self insert characters aren't nice or likable. They're often rude, judgmental and selfish, yet she gets pursued by these amazing (white) men to the point of being unbelievable. One begged her for a date after seeing her in the train!
this was put so beautifully 10/10
I actually liked the character arc Mindy brought in for Devi in NHIE, even season 3 where she brought in the hot Indian guy (only to be rejected by him and his mom eventually). I haven’t really delved into any of the other shows she has written for (aside from the office), but I personally liked NHIE. As a brown girl who went to school in Bangladesh and then to Boarding school in the US, I saw the blatant colorism in the way men of my own race interacted with me (I’ve only dated white men so far because they’ve been the only race that has found me attractive). But I think NHIE is a good balance of the American brown girl experience through Kaling’s personal lenses? Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in my interpretation.
Only race that has found you attractive? lmao. White guys are just as colorist as non white men, just say you like White guys.
Came across this video autoplaying Velma reviews. I'm generally unfamiliar with Mindy Kaling; thus actively chose to watch the entire video for educational reasons. Coming out of it i think i may subscribe. Carefully defined introduction, well paced chronological delivery, references, succinct and insightful script; this is a good video.
i think another part of the issue is that, especially in the mindy project, a lot of the love interests are played by famous comedy actors and writers, many of whom are white men. the exclusionary casting in this series reflects the discrimination and inequity within the comedy world, such that many of the most high-profile, well-paid comedians are white heterosexual men. i hope to see a shift in comedic casting as more people of color, women, trans people, queer people, and disabled people achieve higher positions of power and influence in the entertainment industry!
This is the first video of you that I get to, pretty good analysis imo! Your voice is calming and not boring.
The only thing I can comment on is that I expected the "kissing scene and threating to fire whoever opposed it" situation to appear in here.
I love mindy. I just feel like her recent writing work puts her into a box more often than not.
I've been saying for a while, in relation to creators like her and Shonda Rhimes, I wish they'd be honest. Be honest that the world has convinced them on some level romance is only for white people. That even if a POC is included, no one wants to see them if a white person isn't there too. It's sad really because as a black woman who LOVES their work, I can see beauty and revolution in what they are doing but still feel....disconnected from it. There is also something to be said about the companies that platform them needing to see a white face somewhere in order to find the stories worthwhile. The cycle is sad but I believe we are watching them ATTEMPT to try new things recently.
I disagree because when I was a kid, you rarely see a interracial couple on TV. This was only the 2000s buy now y'all are complaining about seeing IR couples on TV. That is ridiculous. How has something so progressive turn into something so regressive?
@@lisah8438 and what race are you?
Agreed
I mean she grew up in Boston. Around a time where it’s her surroundings and complex experiences.
currently binge watching the Mindy project so I loved this
I find it interesting that no one speaks of how Asian women (mostly east asian) with fair pale skin are often paired with white men in media and are even more likely to marry white men than their own race. I do have have to wonder if it's because she's brown skinned (which is usually not seen as desirable to white men) that people are taking more of an issue with it?
Of course that's not all as what else is mentioned in this vid is also true but its just something I've noticed. Frankly I wish more brown skinned girls were shown as desirable to men of other races because that's rarely ever seen but in a more healthy way.
Indians aren't asian
Not our fight as black women.... So honestly i could not care less
I'm surprised to see so many Black women in these comments with their capes on. These people wouldn't spit on us if we were on fire.
@@fleebee4115 They also wont beg for help like you guys do while racking up 60% of all violent crime while being 13%
Then why do you expect other people to support you?
@@Progress234we don’t
I kinda understand her self esteem issues. Most Indian men does not prefer dark skinned women. If they do, that's good. I've seen this all through highschool but most of them does not prefer dark skinned girls. All they see is the colour of the girl, her personality only comes after her colour
Most men and women don't prefer dark skinned people.
I like how women act as if they're some pious and virtuous beings meanwhile act the same
I'm indian and I don't prefer any Indian women.
As an south Asian woman, I’ve never connected to mindy’s characters. They are self hating brown women that play into the “I’m too cool to be a part of my culture.” Then again, this could reflect her upbringing. I just don’t understand what’s being represented because I feel she’s representing herself, not characters for south Asian women. I feel that it would be fair if she represents herself instead of representing all “brown people.” Because personally, I want representation I connect with and Mindy doesn’t reflect anything I can relate to.
If that’s her preference to date white men that’s her business, she doesn’t have to date Indian men if she not attractive too them.who is it to say who we date it’s our business as long as she happy.
If Ms Kaling feels there aren´t enough Indians in Hollywood, she could always try her skills in Bollywood.
This was a really great video!!! Fun fact it was actually recommended to me on the first page of google when looking up mindy Kaling
I’m white and I really like and prefer Middle East features.
This is just hysterical.
Your black fragility is showing…questioning her choices in the race of men she prefers to date. Why do you care? Love is love. Maybe you need to do the work to except a world where women of color can date anyone they choose💃🏿🕺
Agreed
It's always the ones who say we are racist when themselves are racist. She even lightens her skin!
Love this video essay, it’s the first one I’ve seen from you and so glad I found it! Super interesting, and context is always very important in any analysis! Thank you!
As an asian person, growing up in asia when I was younger, a lot of people here think people from the west are attractive and almost to the point of idolizing them. But another issue is that as I lived in Europe for a few years, once I returned to asia, asian boys (even girls) see asian people who live abroad (especially in western countries) differently and most often in a judgmental way. A lot of my asian friends also mentioned that asian boys have very particular or specific tastes due to the beauty standards here. I'm just pointing out what I have observed (and when I talk about asia, I'm mainly talking about east and southeast asia as I am from there and I don't have enough information to talk about south asia or the middle east). But as always, great video!
India is nothing like asia. two completely different places and people
@@WastedBananas India is in South Asia
@@noodontstealmyliver doesn’t matter they don’t look Asian
@@WastedBananas you dimwit