ABSOLUTE MUST WATCH | Neeb (USA) v Serral (Finland) - IEM Katowice 2018
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- The games that came out of this tournament are so incredibly next level I have to keep showing them off, it is ridiculous.
Watch the stream: / wintergaming
"You're not going to use a hammer to paint a picture"
Winter giving those modern artists some ideas.
I think that the accidental Swarm host was actual MVP. It killed so many probes.
"You wouldn't want a screwdriver to tighten a bolt"
A toolbox analogy that makes sense. Feel free to use it. :-)
The roach hydra style:
Keep throwing shit at him, hope it sticks somewhere.
As a Protoss tho, i've learned a good lesson this game.
Dont matter what happens, keep pumping out double immortals, theyr prettyf fuking good
What if they make mutalisks?
The theorical answer is: you scout and when u see spire and / or a lot of gas you use your stargate to chrono finixes while building cannons to buy time.
The actual answer is: you lose, like i lose to mutas everiteim feelsbadman
Unless your opponent switches tech, colossus would so much better against this comp.
Colossi are slow to build and dont do damage to roaches. If the zerg positions roaches in the front (as he should) you need to target fire hydra with colossi, wic will make them run into Roaches and die a terrible death. Storms immortals are the textbook counter to Roach Hydra, just get some Chargelot / Archon in the front for some extra spread damage and to force micro out of the zerg and you are good to go.
9 range, and yes you need to target fire, which isn't that hard. Just shift click a bunch of hydras, 3 collosus will mean they oneshot the hydra so you can't pull the colossi by backing off with the targeted hydras. It's easy enough that I can do it with ~100 apm.
Yes, storm immo is good, but when you have that many immos and not enough storms and is running out of gas, some colossus would be better. 3 colossus is better than 4 templars. Not like 17 immo is that much better than 12 immo after you run out of HT energy.
I have played like... Two SC2 games in my life, and this... With your commentary, is the best E-sport out there
you should give it a chance again :) its a lot of fun! you can also just train and play against A.I. if you dont wanna engage a real human in the ladder.
Haha, I did try after watching a few more SC2 matches, but I think it's more like a fascination of the people who can actually manage to play. Like watching the olympics is not going to make me want to try out pole vaulting :D
oh i totally get the feeling haha. yeah i also get amazed of how well pro players can handle all the actions and situations and pff.. its amazing haha
@Krikegory Kigerstone I hope it suits you perfectly! :D
At least you played SC it's all good
I freaking lost it when you clicked over to the Swarm host and all dead pan just said "And that's a swarm host" Spectacular game and little things like that swarm host make it even more memorable.
Im like 90% sure serral is superhuman. His ability to micro is god tier
I love this dude. I hope he loves himself as much as everyone else must.
This game was bananas, great cast, thanks for sharing
"You're not going to use a screwdriver to screw in a nail" -Winter, 2018.
"You're not going to use a hammer to paint a picture"... Have you seen modern art? lmao
modern art is exactly why its a shitty idea
This is the fourth video of yours ive watched. And ive enjoyed them, but literally whats wrong with your volume loll everyone has has you fiddle with it in the first 3 minutes
1:40 Terran's orchestra strikes again !!!
Better than void ray singing the song of his people in menu
Protoss*
The song title is "the golden armada" if ur interested
Neeb really needed to sneak in a couple shield or armor upgrades. His army was 3-0 for so long. Armor upgrades would have helped so much.
Why? He didnt have a problem winning the fights he needed to win. The point of PvZ is splitting your army good enough everytime the zerg multiprongs you on 3 sides, as it happened multiple times this game. What you need there is storm/archons to force the zerg to always look at every piece of their army, which widens the area of mistake a protoss can do splitting theirs. Armor upgrades dont really give you any advantage in these little skirmishes, they cost gas and thats all they do.
Furthermore, as a toss, you always have to look out for a stargate transition. Armor upgrades for ground neither help you get there nor do they help you once you are there
USA ... I was about to write the same, against fast hitting army like loads of hydras, if his army can consume couple hits more, he can kill a little bit more, with fewer losses and probably punch thru ... but Im not neer that level, so I cant really criticize ... // but basic maths could apply here, right? //
you ask why he should get armor upgrades? lol
Alexander Marcus thank you this is such a detailed analysis I feel like some of these comments are so informative thank you
lol yeah getting amor / shield upgdades is just a "waste", what are u ? bronze ? u know hydras shoot pretty fast and +2 amor/shield vs hydras is pretty fucking good ? but whatever :>
Really liked the casting this game, very informative!
Why neeb didnt just make one stalker to get rid of the overlord and retake the north-east base ??
Well then the base that is right behind the main (the one Serral took at the end of the game)
That's what i was thinking for most of the game. Hell, send one sentry to do it. I realize he didnt have archons to send there cause he neebed them to fight, but when he warped in sentries he could've sent one to do that while building up energy..
I think he just kinda forgot or didnt realzie that.
Victarion, you are kind of like the actual Victarion Greyjoy cuz neither of you are very smart :P
You can't take extra bases against a zerg like Serral, it was hard enough for Neeb to def the two that he had, splitting even more would be suicide.
Neeb struggled the whole game to get his central base up and ultimately lost for loss of income.
I bet if u ask neeb himself he'll tell you he lost because he couldnt get another base.
Hell, he build a cannon on the top right base to try and push away that ov.
But you can't get another base in that situation because of how hard it is to split your forces already. he had minerals aplenty but even 50 gas for a stalker was crucial for his survival. He was already in a bad spot, getting another base up that would die 50 seconds later anyways would not have helped...The base is in a bad location that is impossible to defend for him at that point in time already. Creep was extended too far on the left too, a ling runby on the right or hydra-roach or something on the right while theres an attack on the left means he has to def both and leave the center two bases with no defense at all.
"Nothing is happening we can tone down the music. Alright back to the action"😂
Just found you @Winter, you rock man. Love the Eyes of a Progamer series!
That is such a high quality cast and informative too!
Nice commentary man. Honestly, I am learning from you. Thank you!
Swathes pronounced correctly again! Brought a smile to my face.
Neeb is infallable; who'd of thought it.
Swathes is the word is the word; it's got style, it's got meaning!!
Dazla Darren greese! Right on
seriously i like your gameplays , but i like even more your breakdowns and casting please more!!!(sorry if my english is too bad)
What a great match, really enjoyed the casting!
We all know that single swarm host isnt an accident it is the game bugging when serraling. Everygame he makes single swarm host is a win
he deliberately does it, its a throw away unit to pressure undefended bases. I'm sure you knew that but the question gets asked all the time
From every defeat comes victory!
Serral with the tactical ablative bases
Neeb not mining from 2 of his bases, and Serral mining one of Neeb's bases, made a big difference.
Game was done after the big engage like half way troughout the video. Neeb lost most stuff and only kept bunch of immortals. Serral could have tech switched and cleaned up but instead decided to toy with Neeb and slowly and surelly choke him out. Reason he was not able to mine was because he got stuck on army comp that just was not feasily to defend on 2-3 front at the time.
i find the baseless at top right to be very sadstorm drops on those Zerg mineral line would have been beautiful =(
32:45 best commentary of all time.
"His base is retaken, that's a swarm host" LOL
The “a” in “swaths” is pronounced like the “a” in “water”. Nice match and thanks for the commentary.
Changed up the way you commentary ahe? I notice you have started to explain things like “the mother ship will cloak his units”.
32:19 did he cancel a building in order to get 201 supply?
zerg vs protoss gotta love the terran music XD 32:19
never leave roaches to grow..///luv it
Why does neeb does not try to take the top right base?
I love the way he says Katowice
Catowichyy?
Just trying lol
Zerg speed seems a little OP. Neeb has to position his units so carefully for defense, but the zerg units all have speed upgrades so they can just be wherever they're needed close to instantly
It's part of their design, but I feel you.
Who is the current best Protoss player in the SC2 scene?
You can't screw in a nail but you can hammer in a screw.
Immortals living up to their name... for now.. :D
Brawo! Podoba mi się twoje video.
My właśnie realizujemy budowe mieszkań na osiedlu radosnym w Gliwicach
I can’t even watch this, I don’t know how you could control it
why didn't he just make 5 broods.
Two Titans clashing is what it is
Some colossi action whould be good for neeb...
I love that shirt, @Winter!
What a sick match
@WinterStarcraft were you closer to having a heart attack or an anxiety attack while casting this?
Why did need completely ignore the top right base?
Why didn't Neeb take top right?
i just dont know which is better meem value, mcannigan or avilo
This is not the way. How could it not turn into broodlord vs carrier ? xD
swaythes?
What race doesnt require the right unit comp?
Despite Serral's ingenuity, he could have won decisively 10-15 minutes earlier by remaxing on Muta instead Hydra. Neeb had only one Archon left for air defense at that point
Is this a reupload? I am sure I’ve seen this before on YT.
Just want to note that at 32:21 he extractor tricked to get 201 supply...
i just started to watch winter's videos, what is the name of the chat channel in SC2 or the discord link?
36:08 I love u 4 that quote
Would colossi have helped?
Casually using hammers to paint lots of pretty pictures in tear downs and reconstructions. "Whaaatt???"
When you Merican, but also a Zerg player. .... I hope either both of them win, or nobody wins.
same for me for Terran
No armour no shield upgrades? :O
Did they remove colossi from the game? or did he just straight refuse to build any against mass hydra?
Not sure but i heard they were nerfed... But yeah collosi would have been good.
98 people are using hammers to paint pictures...
Zealots? Stalkers? Adepts? What are those, terran units?
Stalkers? Why would you invest in that crap unit when you can have Immortals that are basically 5x the value for about 2.5x the cost?
Zealots and adepts would have been good if he were using a warp prism, which he only barely used then stopped.
Remaking one would have been way worth it to damage Serral's economy as significantly as the damage he ewa taking every fight Neeb "won".
Colossus was a bad choice I guess?
"nothing is happening lets turn it down a little " 2 seconds later " lets get back into the action"
why in each vid you turn a little bit down the music =)) (we are at 35% now)
Shut up
je vais le regarder
moi aussi
Real Winter?
Why did neeb not take the top right?
Are those minerals smelling or something?
nice fighting @Winter
Well I guess I NEEB to watch this then. I won't even apologize for that.
Disturbed Monster not as painful as the "he is finish but can he finish him" joke... such a genius wordplay
Glory to the swarm!
I love winter's shirt lol.
67 immortals on field -- no muta switch
Why didnt take neeb the base at the top right?
He was not able to defend 2 bases at the time having 3 up would be even worse. Serral kept sending couple fo roaches or some zerglings to that top right it just was not working.
isnt it sad how a protoss can hold on for 40min with half the supply, half the economy, just by a-moving immortals?
zerg with twice the army supply and still losing every fight. protoss is powerful to the point of being unfair. immortals don't die and templars shred everything - lurkers, hydras, even roaches if you spam it enough.
people abuse this build on ladder all the time. and no, brood lords are not the answer. brood lords are end game units. and if you get brood lords out, you're gonna see protoss air, which is an entirely different horror story.
darkphoenix00001 Isn’t the whole point of Zerg “to overwhelm your enemy with sheer numbers”. They’re called “The Swarm” for a reason and I’d you don’t like those fundamentals, I recommend switching races.
@darkphoenix00001
And yet somehow Zerg wins by playing to the strengths of the movement and multi pronged attacks on the smallest map in the pool. What is your point here really?
Yes protoss units are strong bulky and decent damage but zerg units have faster movement and kill things faster as well.
Zerg has very supply unneficient units so having way more army suplies than protoss does not say much. Resources invested into army says a lot more. For example 1 zealot is 2 suply but costs 100 minerals, 4 zerglins are 100 minerals as well but double suply. Immortal costs like 4 roaches and its 4 supply, while 4 roaches are 8 supply. Hydralisk ratios are not as bad but its close enough. There was a lot of suply into queens as well which did not partake in most fights.
So no just because zerg has double army supply it should not overwhelm protoss because actual army value is about equal.
As for immortals, they are expensive and very slow to build so they better be strong or whats the point?
Race distribution on the ladder is pretty equall across all the races, everyone has achilles heal, i guess yours is ZvP....
In any case immortal + high templar is higher tier that roaches and hydras so its perfectly normal you will trade uneven unless you can outposition the protoss or keep the templar/immortal count low.
This match was like an class work of art of ripping protoss apart using low tech units. Its a masterpiece and there is plenty to be learned from here.
Serral was choking Neeb out. He could have won much earlier if he switched tech when protoss was out of everything and stuck on certain army comps but he did not because he is hydra roach master and because he did not need to.
As for your broodlord comment... If Serral went broodlords tehre is no way in the world that protoss had enough gas to get an air army up. But while teching up he would be vulnerable so its a risky move.
@Khalifa Al M and the fundamentals of protoss are... what? build a deathball and then a-move whilst spamming storm every now and then?
@Game Tips the zerg wins by utterly outplaying and outclassing the protoss. that's the feeling I get in most ZvPs. the zerg player has to be at a fairly higher skill level to beat a protoss player who knows how to build a proper deathball. constant harass, multi-pronged attacks, meticulous attention to macro, avoiding direct confrontations, always trying to go for the surround etc. etc.
immortal/templar/archon is a higher tier than roach/ravager, but not hydras and lurkers. the thing about taking bad engagements is that you immediately need to think about defence after because there's nothing stopping the opponent from steamrolling you with their deathball while you're down. you don't exactly get many chances for further engagements, unless you're a very skilled player and can keep the pressure on the opponent up at all times. it's extremely snowball-y like that.
I wouldn't say my achilles heal is protoss is general, but more specifically this protoss composition. that and non-standard cheese. also I play on the korean server and I would say the race distribution across the ladder is definitely not equal. a rough estimate would be 20% zerg, 35% terran, 45% protoss. zerg players are not that common at all.
and I agree that teching up to brood lords is extremely risky, especially when your opponent has an undefeated deathball roaming around the map. you need to make do with what you have in such scenarios.
conclusion: storm is way too OP. it kills pretty much everything and has a wide radius. immortals are a bit too tanky. the dark templar to archon transition is pretty ridiculous - cheesers who rush to DTs for early game harass are not punished in any way, they can easily transition to the archon, zealot composition when DTs are no longer effective. with an additional tech building they can through in immortals and/or templar later on as well.
@darkphoenix00001
This is the race distribution for Korean ladder. Your percentages are way of (assuming you are at least gold ). Only bronze has the percentages you claim and i doubt people in bronze can type coherent walls of texts.
www.rankedftw.com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=2&l=-2
It is basically observational bias nothing else. YOu do not like protoss so it feels like you play protoss all the time :).
IMposible but unlikelly you are unlucky and you get the distribution you claim but that is obviosly not the true ladder state.
What a rare match
I thought at 30 minutes the game ties
Good tactic wore him down. Left him no time.
You pronounce KATOWICE english way, I know it's not so important, but you will please every polish subscriber if you try to do it correctly checking that word out on YT :P
is it just me or a lot of zerg players and winning a lot of tournaments lately?
MUST WATCH (GONE SEXUAL!!!!!1! COPS CAME!!!1! GOT SWATTED!!!!!!!!!!)
ABSOLUTE MUST WATCH | GONE SEXUAL| SUPER INTENCE| EXTRA STRESSFULL| Neeb (USA) v Serral (Finland) - IEM Katowice 2018
why did need spam immortals instead of collosus?
monda111111 if neeb got colossus then Serral could easily switch into a roach heavy composition that would hard counter the slow to build, expensive colossus
goJesusandStarcraft but then Neeb would be able to make the perfect roach counter -> stalker.
I also wonder often when this late in a game with this much infrastructure why not do some sort of unit switch when you refuse to attempt to take another base and are slowly losing. I, also, am not very good at the game,
Unit switch takes a lot of gas. But in games like that one less HT and you loose the game. You just don't have spare gas to do that.
why not the wcs 2.0 overlay? :/
I just turn the video off and listen to the audio. It's like listening to the world series on the radio except impossible to visualize.
what observer mode do u use? I don't have drones died cnt bar :(
It's in the standard replay system but it's one of the options not clickable in the dropdown menu. Hit Ctrl+R.
Lol SWAITHES I love it.
This game is very professional and stuff, but quite boring for the most part.
3:00 and the right tool for every job is mass void rays
Oslier too good that mass stalker easily counter that
Not against hydras tho.
Murica had it coming, Or was it AAAAfrica, best" twitch comment ever xD
Papa bless. Sister fister!
to win a game without ever winning a fight - that's why i hate zerg.
He won plenty of fights troughout the game. Each time he destroyed the nexus is basically a won fight. Just because he lost a bit more resources in army value it does not mean he actually lost the fight.
:( i really neebed him to win...