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Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- We know it works on track, but is 200hp enough on the road? You can get a 370Z for similar money. Or a used Cayman S. If the GT 86 can do the business here, it has to be one of the great cars of 2012.
I've lost count of how many times I've watched this. Harris is the best of his generation with work like this.
Stumbled upon this gem after seeing nearly every other modern GR86, 370Z, and family owns a 2006 Boxster S already. These comparisons never get old and little gems like this from 10 years ago really impact my thoughts especially on the 370Z today.
Can't emphasize enough
And I've watched it again today 😁
Agreed. I watch it a couple of times a year, then go drive the 86 😅
Same here..... I have come to look at it differently. I would go for the z because you can fix its handling issues. It's going to be a lot more expensive and difficult to make the BRZ faster. The Porsche is also going to be a headache to keep maintained.
I think Clarkson said it the best, you can't measure the GT86 in numbers but you measure it in smiles.
Absolutely. To suggest big power is required in order for a car to "count" as a sports car is to suggest that the Mx5 isn't a sports car, which doesn't make sense at all if you consider that SCCA Spec Miata is the single largest class in motorsport today. It simply doesn't make sense. Like the car or not, it looks to me like the new 240x.
Hunter Thornquist Well, for Chris Harris the Miata is not a sports car, check out his review. i'm pissed because he loves the GT86 while shits on the Miata for being to slow etc...
Smiles fade when the emotion of new fades. This was a newer car in 2012 and now its just a slow old POS. The Z kills it in every way...
Mask Man The Z kills it in speed. Chassis, suspension, steering, balance, comfort, weight, pedal feel, fun. The 86 is still better in those areas.
No the Z doesn't kill it in every way. Did you not watch the video?
Best comparative review I've seen on this car. He truly understands the reasoning behind the existence of the 86/BRZ.
"370z vs 86 is like comparing a chainsaw to hedge clippers they both get the job done, but one will do it much faster, the other will do it slower but with more finesse." - some dude (or girl) on a 370z vs 86. I think they got it about right.
@Joseph C. yeah but how long is a piece of string when you start modifying things?
@Joseph C. as a 370Z owner, I would say no it won’t, frs has a more superior chassis. A set of coilovers can improve the shortcomings of the z but the chassis is still a bit heavy and it just doesn’t do it that well on the track. Also, 370Z lack of a proper differential from factory.
@Joseph C. I agree, frs is too slow on street but fun on track. 370Z is fast on street but need some proper mods to address the shortcomings of the car. I would say 370Z at least needs suspension mods, a proper differential and an oil cooler to be excel on the track
Misses the point of the review, you can then upgrade the GT86 suspension and.....
My previous cars mostly had over 400hp. Over 500hp in some cars. I've owned MKIV Supra Turbo with T-78 turbo, Evo 8 with 2.3 stroker, GT35R, and meth injection, STi with GT30R, 350Z with built block and APS TT, IS300 with GTE swap, FD RX-7 with LS6 swap, etc... Damn, I can't even remember all of the cars. All cars were highly modified thoroughly(engine, suspension, hardened mounts and bushings galore, etc.).
Then I drove a GT86... and I'm hooked so much that I am buying one!! Yes, the power is low. In fact, it's been a while since I drove a car with an usable first gear. Hahaha. But the driving position, the feedback you get, and the way the car responds to your inputs... all together create an amazing driving experience.
I was one of those who kept criticizing 86 for the lack of power continuously since its debut. I hated Toyota/Subaru for not producing a TRD/STi version of this car as I thought I needed 300HP at the very least. But after one drive, I get it. This car is all about the driving experience. It is never about posting the fastest lap times or winning drag races. If you want to compete with other cars, look elsewhere.
If I really feel the need to increase the power, there are plenty of aftermarket options available. I think adding a supercharger is a great way to add power to these cars as it keeps the throttle response unlike turbos. Even if I wanted to add more power, I do not think I would want anything more than 300HP, as I do think that too much power will actually ruin the experience.
If you haven't driven one, go try it. Although you might not feel that this is not the right car for you, I guarantee that you will enjoy the experience if you are a true car enthusiast.
SolitudeMG Thanks mate, this is exactly what I needed to hear. Its back on my 'serious contenders' list.
rollintroll You're welcome. I actually bought a BRZ two weeks ago and I'm am enjoying it very much. It really is great fun to drive. Yes, it is not fast by any means but it feels like the car really talks to me and that it is I who is doing all the work, not the car. Plus, the stock tires have little grip so it's really easy to slide it around, which is also good fun. I'm eventually planning to add a SC but at the moment, I am really enjoying the car as it came from the factory.
SolitudeMG I see the point of a gt86/brz but I think people are just pretending the ae86 is back. Personally I would go for the 370z and then if I feel like it go for a suspension, spring, brakes, tyres ecc rather than putting my hands on the engine. It s good to have a good driving experience but in my opinion for 30.000€ it's too expensive.
Carlo Gigante I've never driven a 370Z but owned a 350Z with Nismo suspension, Stoptech BBK, APS TT, and built engine. Yes, it's faster in a straight line and has a nicer interior, but it also does not have the steering feel and balance of 86/BRZ. Make no mistake. 86/BRZ is slow in a straight line. There is no denying that.
However, well balanced chassis and great feedback is not something that can be had by adding modifications. Yes, it can be done. But it is difficult and you might still never be able to get good feedback from the car about what it is doing. Lastly, 370Z is far heavier than 86/BRZ. By the time you make 370Z as light as 86/BRZ, it will no longer have the nicer interior than 86/BRZ, if it is even possible to lose that much weight and still be driven on the streets.
I know it is really hard to ignore the "200HP" as family sedans these days have far more than that. Hell, my daily driver is more than 1 full second faster than my BRZ to 100kph. However, adding power is the easiest part of modifying a car. Setting up a balanced chassis? It is hard. Making the car give good driver feedback? Nearly impossible with a car that did not come like that from the factory.
It took me 3 years to overlook the power figures and give this car a chance. Once I did, I fell in love in an instance. I drove cars that had more than 400 to the wheels in the past, and I still got hooked on 86/BRZ. Try it. Like I have mentioned, it might not be the right car for you, but I guarantee you that you will enjoy the test drive if you truly are a motoring enthusiast.
Carlo Gigante but that engine is gruff and not very pleasing in its characteristics. No money can change its design
I’ve probably watched this video 4 times in the last 8 years. A classic, and it goes beyond the subject of these 3 cars.
A classic Chris Harris video, no over produced cinematography or shenanigans. Just straight up driving the cars and telling us what we need to know! 👍
"The World needs cheap rear-wheel drive cars!!! "Thumbs up!
I have own three of them the pass. The 370z is fast but heavy when cornering. The 86/frs/brz slow but fast when cornering. The Cayman S fast straight and cornering but it double the price.
Btw I sold them so I could buy a GTR Nismo in Forza Motorsport 7.
HAHAHHAHAHHA priceless! 🤣
I have a 370Z sport coupe with Hotchkis sways and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires and the car handles its weight very well around corners. I can generate more than 1 g in lateral and longitudinal acceleration and still maintain good control.
Not gonna lie, they had us in the first half
I like the Nissan
Toyota must have done something right to have all these people hating on the car they designed. Why do you guys come on here to hate for?
It's a shame you have haters like the ones in the comment section. True car enthusiasts appreciate every car and understand every car serves a purpose. Every car's essence precedes its existence for that very reason. It's a shame some people are narrow-minded and can't understand what Toyota was trying to accomplish with this car. And it's a shame you can't appreciate it either.
I don't go around hating on cars I don't like. I understand, however, that they serve a purpose. Speed is not everything. Why can't some people understand that?
Cheers, everyone.
I don't know anyone who hates the GT86 / BRZ / FR-S. It is awesome that a company produced a front mid-engine rear wheel drive car in that price range. I would take a 370z over it personally, but I'm not on a budget and I don't like drifting.
I think it's a good car with an identity crisis. It just felt too hard to be a DD for me and it seems too slow to be a good dedicated track car. It just doesn't fit anywhere for me in the spectrum of cars.
Hairless Cars It's a car you have, next to your supra mk3.
Juan Cuara Well said sir, I dont understand why fellow driving enthusiasts, like to say bad things about peoples personal cars, just because its not there particular taste. Ive always put myself in there shoes, every car guy loves their car and believe its special, so who am I to say its not!!
+Juan Cuara You, my friend, are some bizarre, existential, brilliance. Well said. "every car's essensce precedes its existence." The makers of those early autos are rolling in there graves in a macabre dance of the day of the dead at that jest. Well said, well said. Cheers to you, sir.
There is not nearly enough posts from people like yourself who have something to say. So often I feel like I'm alone in this world filled with petty bickering.
-future cannonballrun record holder.
Chris did a great job summarizing the chassis balance and the way the rear end moves around.
You'll always end up chasing a bit of wiggle in corners because it's so damn fun.
Who is here after Chris dropped his review of the GR86 on February 4, 2024?
I’ve watched this video hundreds of times through the years and seeing Harris in 2024 still gives me chills. Keep driving, keep shifting friends.
I guess as an Initial D fan, I completely get the idea of the 86.
Same
The fact that this is takumi's future car
I love both the 86 and the 370z. Both are great cars created for different segments. If a person chooses an 86, it is because he/she falls into the segment the 86 was designed for. Likewise, if you prefer the 370z, then you are in the segment the 370z was designed for. It is really that simple. Enjoy the car for what it was designed for. If every car can be lined up and a single best car chosen, we will end up with 1 model, much like the Model T. God forbid that.
Chris Harris is breaking into a new way to compare cars. He delivers wanted and needed information to consumers and discusses the cars qualities on an sublime level.
I’ve had a Cayman for 8 years and an GT86 for 9 months. The Caymans’ never gone wrong and has always been brilliant but pretty its much perfect as is. The GT86 is a total blast and is cheap to modify which kinda makes it more rewarding to own.
A 2006 used cayman S in Australia costs 2X as much as a GT86.
metcard That it does. plus hugemongous servicing costs.
metcard Yep, this is why I bought an 86! (well, I've moved onto my second now [in GTS spec])
***** thats the best choice. congrats ( from a porsche-fanboy) ! The costs to maintain a porsche are way too much. If you wanna keep it nice and clean and get alle the Porsche Services you are gonna bleed. Question: Is the GT86 really THAT underpowered as everybody is whining ? i can't believe that
Popo popopopo , nah mate. They're not underpowered. Sure, an extra 50kw would be great, but they're fine the way they are. If you keep it above 5000 RPM they're quick, and due to their excellent handling, you can maintain a lot of speed in the corners. Great cars!
+Mitchell Denham i agree not underpowered at all, i find my BRZ very torquey at lower rpms too, i have lost many sportscars in my rear view mirror up hills.
The BRZ/FRS/gt86 is amazing. I freaking love it. Mine modified a bit and it's sooooooo much better than stock. You can't buy this car without adding headers and a tune. I've always thought it's fast enough, but besides that it just feels so fkn good when you're driving.
If you hate on it over speed, seriously, you're stupid. It gets stupid quick with some mods, and if you add a turbo (or fi), well, you can't complain about speed anymore.
I've had mine for over 2 years. I work from home so no work miles. I have about 48k miles in 2 years and 19 days give or take a day......I spend my lunch breaks to go get a coffee then take the back roads home. That's how fun this car is.
Oh and if you like or love attention...buy this car, out some 18s and coil overs on and get rdy to be sued for broken necks lol
Five year Toyota warranty!!! Toyota must love you Brits. Its three years in Canada. Not that the GT86 is even available here.
Robert Drake I have the subaru brz and it comes with a 6 year warranty
3 years in Australia also :(
Bought a BRZ yesterday, for $1000.00 extra, I got a 100K bumper to bumper (7 year) warranty. U.S.A.! lol ;)
Ben R worth it
Only downside is you have to deal with Toyota UK to take advantage of it..
This is why the 86 is brilliant. Larger tires don't always mean they're better for the car. I think recently the fascination of a wider wheel and tire has been more for aesthetic interest than actual tactical performance. The R&D at toyota and subaru have that car set up to put down a remarkable near- 1 lateral G on 215/45-17's while keeping that amount of drivability.
I really, really wanted a 370Z, I wanted to love it but after driving one I can't do it. They're a great car for people after that thing but it was more a GT than I expected. I sold my MX-5 NB and got an 86 and so far it's great. My Dad bought a Cayman GT4 and it's a phenomenal car, wonderful to drive on road and track - but it's in another league when it comes to running costs. I don't need P-Zeros or worry about scraping carbon fibre with the 86. Sure it's not perfect but it's a great little thing.
The GT86 is one of the most epic cars ever made, is new... but with the fun of the 80´s
thanks Chris. Thoughtful and well presented analysis. I am always trying to tell the Holden V8 aficianados (here in Australia) that everything doesn't depend on 0-100 time and huge power oversteer. Cars like the Toyota 86 and Mazda MX5 are wonderfully rewarding cars even with their modest power
This is my favorite Chris Harris video of all time. Still watching it after like 10 years
I bought a red 86 this weekend, time to have some fun haha
moldyrefrigerator lucky you man! ;D
+moldyrefrigerator You posted this 2 months ago, how would you rate it now after driving it for a while ?
It's a blast. And really small, like small to the point where you can lose it in a parking lot because average cars just completely cover it. I don't think its underpowered, I mean yeah if you've coming from an STi you won't think its quick..but for me 200hp is the most hp car I've owned and this car is light as fuck so that works in it's favor more than a normal car with 200hp. The 0-60 is the same time as the Focus ST, which is also a really small car, and that weighs like 500lbs more and has a turbo so this car isn't that bad. It could use 30-50hp more and it'd be perfect. I've already got a ticket in it, 82 mph in a 55mph, getting the red version didnt help..But the driving is great, I can't get enough I've already put 4,000 miles on it, and planning to take it to Virginia International Raceway next month to get this speeding out of my system lol. Also, it gets really good gas mileage even when you beat on it. I'm getting 28mpg and I haven't been babying it. I don't have a winter car either so its just the FRS 365. Should be fun in the snow! Hoping to change the tires and get an exhaust in the next couple months.
nice, thanks
+moldyrefrigerator That's the thing! I love mine but i just need A LITTLE more. I already have a catback and i plan on going with some headers and a tune and i should be good to go. Plan on doing a little sound deadening and an upgraded stereo and i should be set to go till i have kids!
I’m in love with my cayman s. Head over heels. It’s the perfect 2 seater for the money. By a large margin imo.
"get back to a place where we are enjoying performance because of its nature, and not because of its quantity" -Chris "swag daddy" Harris
Those comments that say Nissan Z is better than 987/981Cayman... It makes my brain bleed
i think you can make the Z handle like the cayman for less than giving the cayman 350+ hp
cars don't need to be mid engine to handle well at least thats my opinion
oh hell nah, U compare Z to Cayman? I own 06 Cayman S and it eats Zs like it was nothin. Like literally, 3 car lengths LOL
a z and a miata are like the same price lol
Better in that it is not a POS that breaks down weekly. All german euro trash cars are marketing wonders of the earth, they are crap and break down all the time...
I have an 86, and it is brilliant fun.
It'll do skids without trying. Yes it's not quick and the interior is a tad rattly but I don't care, I love it. I make any excuse to go drive it.
Hey mate, mind if I ask, do you think it can hold a second gear powerslide?! Say on a typical roundabout for eg.
@@UTubeSL yeah. Not that I'd know like..
@@mrb6094 haha nice 😄 I should have asked - is that even in the dry? Thanks for the reply!
@@UTubeSL I've seen people sliding them around fairly easily in the dry. I'm not one for doing that though, that's what rain is for.
@@mrb6094yeah guess tyre wear is more of an issue in the dry. Thank you gor the info - appreciate it!
love this video. ive owned an 86 for almost 2 years now and i love it. my next car? used cayman.
The 86 is an incredible car, I also enjoy owning one.
I had a 06 Boxster S before switching to a BRZ and I wouldn't go back. Don't bother with the Cayman, you already have the better car ;) You cant beat the practicality + fun factor of an 86.
aaah this is interesting treminaor! Eventually i will see the 86 so If i was to move on to another sports car which has more power than the 86 what would you recommend?
If you love the 86 enough you could always throw a supercharger in it, there's plenty of research and choices for that available online. But for choosing a better car it really depends on if you want 4 seats and cargo space like you have with the 86 if you're okay with a 2 seat golf club mobile like a boxster/cayman.
Also the reliablity of an 86 vs other sports cars is nearly unbeatable. You have to buy old to get an affordable luxury sports car and by that time they are high miles and out of pocket service. My 06 Boxster S only had 30k miles on it when I bought it and after 15k miles in a year I'd already spent around $3,000usd on repairs and maintenance. I sold it just recently for $25k and bought a 2016 BRZ off the lot for $27k.
I did a lot of reading before I bought my FR-s two months ago. I do a 122 mile round trip commute on kentucky back roads every day that are very much like the roads in this test, except smoother and more corn and Tobacco. The way he breaks loose on corners and little hills is exactly what I experience every single day. I've done' some amazing completely neutral drifts. I look, forward to driving to work every morning. No deer strikes yet...
I drive one of those as a Subaru BRZ ... and loved it since the first day.. nice looking .. cheap on gasoline.. fast enough and my god being with it on a highway is a delightful experience
man you impress me every time. i love your reviews & tests, honest point of views excellent driving skills, think outside the box. whenever i'm looking for a review first thing i type is "Chris Harris", thumbs Up keep them coming !
Im not sure whos gonna see this on an 8 year old video, but if anybodys looking to get one of these cars as a daily driver whether new or used you also have to think of this. Youre not just paying for the car, you still have to pay for insurance, fuel and other maintenance items. For insurance in toronto i was quoted $3400 a year for a 2014 frs, for a 2014 370z i was quoted $4375 a year because nissan Z cars are considered high risk vehicles, and on a 2014 cayman i was surprisingly quoted $3100 a year. But parts are more expensive on the porsche than the toyota or nissan and fuel economy is important on a daily driver, and the frs has the best fuel economy out of all 3, and it has the most storage space. so in my opinion the frs would be the best daily driver. plus youll get in less trouble with it too
I'm in Alberta and I have a FRS for 6 year now. I have a insurante and I paid 1100 dollars for the FRS and a Honda CRV (The FRS is a full cover)
I don't know if depends of the province, drive history or age of the driver.
I like how this guy drives and review. he's intense and having a blast. reviews should always be fun. this is the best review of the little FRS.
Chris Harris' best video, ever! I tested a used Cayman and a new 86, and bought the 86 :D
Nuno Bandeira still have your 86? Looking at one...
Well balanced review. Just had a test drive in an 86 today, considered buying a used Cayman S a while back, never thought about the Nissan because it looks like a shoe. The thing about the 86 is that it is more fun, more of the time. In the Cayman you have to go 60-90 to make you smile. In the Toyota you need to approach a roundabout at 30. Throw in that new car smell with low running costs and it's got me. Can't wait to drive everywhere at 1000 smiles per hour
I came back in 2021 and this is still great!
i test drove an frs a while back and nothing handled quite like it, truly an amazing car
A 16k Cayman will quickly become a 35-40k car if you want to keep it on the road....
@Elliot Rodger Don't get me wrong I love porsches but when i looked into buying one Boxer S (with the flat 6 engine) I quickly changed my mind. Endless problems down the road especially because they hardly are driven easy (lower end models even more). These are the type of cars one should buy new or almost new and look after them. No daydreaming ecc cuz your gonna end up with a time bomb.
@Elliot Rodger Good for you! I'd rather go for a gt86 test car or a new one at the right price since in italy the 370z has to pay a whopping €2000 a year in taxes (not including insurance ecc). Plus I'll be comforted by Toyota's 5 year warranty and mild depreciation. Good luck and have fun!
That’s so not true I hav a 987 Boxster a owner it for 6 months and yes there is a coolant leak with 3 pipes to be changed
That costed me 760£
Nth close to what u said
At $16,000 all it takes is one catastrophic engine failure and you're already at 30 grand. All it would take is an average of $3,000 a year for a few years to get to that 30 Grant. But shouldn't be hard to do in any high mileage German vehicle. Clutch replacement transmission issue.
You can always tell a US poster from their obsession with skidpan and 1/4 mile figures.
That's why no US cars will ever win in F1 or WRC ......
You mean like the Ford Fiesta? :P
@@nikoyochum6974 The Fiesta and Focus are "technically" German engineered if I'm not mistaken.
@@nikoyochum6974 + now only sell in europe/ for Europe. May sell to other places but not the us
This video made me respect Chris Harris. The guy knows a real driving car.
I just bought an 86 after 3 years of hesitation. This car is a blast!!
awww you described it so nicely! i miss that feeling in my old '85 toyota corolla gts. I've been looking at the new toyota, and thank you for focusing on how enjoyable it is to drive!
Chris Harris is an amazing host, great work, love hearing your reviews. I wonder why he didn't compare the FRS to the Honda S2000 as well. Amazing handling, RWD, light, affordable, great driver input...
This is the first time I have seen this video on February 10th 2024, I absolutely love the 86, and I have loved it for the past 10 years when I saw one in real life and instantly fell in love, it literally is the reason why I love cars, but Chris just put it together SO well. He completely understands motoring, cars, driving, the 86, the Z, the Cayman, wow man.
I don't know how I missed this masterpiece of a video for so long, but this perfectly reflects my view of the car world: The 86 and the Cayman are the best things out there.
Just love watching Chris Harris driving cars right on the edge, what a great driver and petrol head 👍
Thanks Chris! Not sure how many times I watched this video but after scouring western Canada for a 2006ish Cayman vs an FRS (GT86 in Canada) I did one better and happened upon a used 2013 FRS with the TRD kit and a carbon hood parked on a dealer lot with only 13,000km. In Canada the TRD versions in 2015/2016 run up to $31K Canadian but if you do your homework you can find one like mine that is not even broken in with the balance of the warranty for @$20,000. Compared to 10 year old Caymans with 100,000km for $30-40,000 (even lovely mint ones have 50-60,000km) there was no better bargain than jumping into my FRS in early November, throwing on some Michelin Xice 3's and some weight in the trunk and driving it all winter!! Why? Because if I had a lovely blue Cayman I would be like most Porsche owners and park it, too worried about my paint chips and windscreens that cost $1000's ... my buddy with a 911 4s (cabrio - no he's not a hair dresser) wishes he drove his car like I drive mine!!
I had a 370 z with intake and exhaust upgrades, volks with grippy tires, and stiffer sway bars and coilovers. For some reason my new stock BRZ tS is putting more smiles on my face 😁😁😁 than the Z. I just feel more alive driving it. Yes the BRZ doesn’t have the punch the Z has on the straights but I still think the BRZ is more fun to drive!
This is a better comparison. I don't think anyone buys a base Z unless they want to mod it. The NISMO is more fun stock, but it's a different price level too.
Price wise, the GT86 is more comparable to a Miata.
So, as someone with admittedly a huge Porsche bias I got out of the FR-S yesterday with a bigger grin than I had from the Carrera 2S. There's just something magical about being able to use all of the car all of the time that the modern Porsches just don't have. And the recent 911s feel fat.
"But the 86 is something different altogether. There's an effervescence about the way it approaches life that gives it's driver something more than just a great motor and exciting handling. Its a car that by force of character improves every journey, and not by outright speed, but by fun."
Sign me up.
370z is a awesome car hands down i own a 2013 sport it will hug the road and feels planted as well as i have no prob drifting with control
is that because your 100% is equal to Chris Harris' 80%... ?
i took a 370 z Nismo for a drive today (2019 version) and it was an incredible drive It reminded me of a track car like a 911 GT2 and sounded like a Viper. Great car
@Anton Zuykov i find the GT very underwhelming!
@@patrickmurphy5842 take one out to the canyons or drive a boosted one and you will change your mind. A supercharged 86 supposedly has a better power to weight ratio than a 911 turbo... or so i hear, I love my 86. It could definitely use alot more hp in a straight line though. I only really notice when I have passengers or I race someone in a straight line.
@@Dusijejdjjd the mx5 is more fun and enjoyable than the gt86
Id like to see the next z to be more like the 300zx and id like to see a cheaper rwd coupe come back (silvia revive?)
10 years later, and now I’m the proud owner of a Porsche Cayman S! I’m so happy!
I still watch old videos with nostalgia. My GT86 is 10 years old, and has no bore scoring ...
The Scion Fr-s is simply the best all around sports car there is...period! the amount of engineering that went in to making this car and what you get, is simply amazing -- this car will be a future classic and now especially after Scion brand is no longer -- the Scion Fr-s will now be even more sought after.
Don't feel insulted or anything about this, but if you want to talk about the best all round sports car, I'm assuming you are talking about specifications as you say it is well engineered. I feel that the Alfa Romeo 4C is an exemplary sports car that is clever, fast enough (in the same way The gt86 is) stylish and handles well. If you also factor in price, the GT86 is better, but other than price, the 4C is far better
You do know the 4c is way more right? So it can be all around because of the price. If the 86 was 20k more it would be faster and more refined.
great point -- :)
If the 4C had a manual gearbox, the ability to turn off the traction control, and a physical gauge cluster, it would have been at the top of my list for my 2nd car.
I upgraded from a 1.2 clio to an 86. Fast enough for me 😂
Literally doing the exact same upgrade this month, hope you're still enjoying your 86!
Also the reason why that car slips so easily is because it has the same tires that go on the prius. Pretty sure if you put fiesta wheels on a mustang it'd be a similar deal. Aside this was a great review! Love the fact that Harris put the Cayman into the spotlight. Changes your perspective on the whole situation.
*****
Oh wow. Guess I'll look at your videos and see how much better your car is. :/
My 2013 10 Series GT86 has the following:
18x8.75 +33 wheels
235/40R18 Hankook RS4's
TRD coil springs
Whiteline camber bolts
Grimspeed shock tower brace
Berk dual muffler delete exhaust
Perrin solid transmission mount
Sound tube delete
Racesceng billet cam plate covers
And occasionally a Sparco Sprint race seat
All of this makes one of the grippiest and enjoyable track cars/daily drivers I've ever had, and I've had and have lots of cars...
I recently bought 2011 Z and disagree with a lot of the comments Chris makes here. To be honest the steering isn't the worlds best, but it's not bad either, particularly seeing though 9 out of 10 people will not push beyond this mythical "8/10ths" thing he keeps chirping on about, unless you track it which is a different story altogether. My last car was a Megane RS250 and that knows a fair few things about going round corners being the fastest FWD car round the ring, F1 tech in the suspension etc, and honestly, now I would rather have a car that looks amazing, makes a good noise that you can occasionally smoke someone at the lights in. The whole interior thing as well, that is down to choice and what you ask for/look for... Mine for example has leather and alcantara seats, stitched leather, Sat Nav/DVD player, the GT86 by comparison looks like came out of a cereal box.
Think my point is, yes the GT86 looks fun but why is it neccessary, on public roads to push so hard that the Z becomes not as good as the other 2!? I would happily have a used Cayman,great car, but being 5 years older than mine with 50K more miles for the same money... It's an easy choice. Bit of a biased, nonsense review if you ask me.
Excellent, the two cars I've been considering and a great tester, it's got to be the 86.
Great example as to why Chris Harris is one of the most respect car journalists in the biz...
love that comment you made "people need to enjoy performance nature, rather than its quantity." Absolutely agree with that statement. Another quote from an experienced driver i can relate this too would be Jay Leno saying "the most fun happens between 0-60 mph". Horsepower and torque shouldn't make or break any vehicle. Great video.
I like the food comparison of the 370z as a big plate of ok tasting food whereas the FR-S is a small plate of very tasty food. I prefer a small plate of very tasty food.
+mrpmj00
Like a a Big Mac with fries and a plate of 5 pieces of great sushi
i like both
Kinda like the small plate of tasty food keeps you coming back for more and the big plate just fills you up and makes you content.
I'm a 🐖 I like lots of food, tasty or otherwise.
I just love my gt86
just watching the GT86/FRS makes me smile. It looks like so much fun.
I can't wait til I drive it.
Ever since I watched this video a decade ago I really wanted an 86, finally after keep buying sedans like the manual is250 and the manual is300 finally pulled the trigger on a 2019 86 TRD and man it’s in a different class. The driving position to the steering feel to the suspension it’s just an amazing experience. Don’t really give a damn about the 0-60 cause I only enjoy to Cary speed through the corners on tight back roads!
Yeah but fixing that Porsche vs fixing the Gt86...
The 370z chris tests in this video does not have sport package! Get it with a sport pack and it adds a more taught suspension, bigger brakes, tires, and an LSD!
@PastIconoclast I only paid about $3K more for the 370Z sport coupe that I got and I thought it was well worth the price for what I got. It also has a nice aero package, upgraded Bose sound system and synchro rev match on the 6-speed manual transmission. The 370Z sport version is more narrowly focused as a pure driver's car, something that I specifically wanted.
The base and sport have the same suspension..... and the vlsd on the z is a joke....
I've had my GT86 for going on 2 years now and it's my daily driver.
Mine is a late 2013 car so is now over 10 years old. I bought it as one of the cheapest in the country at the time - clean titled but had clearly experienced a neglectful owner in the recent past and had almost 100k on the clock when I got it with some questionable roadman geared modifications that have since been undone. Before him though it had been well looked after going on receipts.
I've racked up about 10k in it and seen a fair amount of admittedly expensive recommissioning that I'll never see back money-wise. Things like an entirely new gearbox, exhaust and the replacement of just about every common wear component because as I say the previous owner ragged it.
That said, it has never missed a beat. I love it to bits and every time I drive it, seamlessly blends being a reasonably comfortable car capable of munching up miles for reasonable fuel bills in the week, with the ability to be just about the most enjoyable experience behind a steering wheel I've ever had at weekends. I often find myself allowing extra journey time at weekends outside of my drives for driving's sake to take roads like the one Chris is on in the video. It's fantastic and leaves me looking like a Cheshire cat.
I think it is all well and good to compare the car to a 370 or a Cayman as realistically those are the close comparisons. But in the real world, it was/is competing with hot hatches and the likes of the Audi TT and Mazda MX5 more than anything else.
Chris is just the best reviewer ever and all the others may as well go home now.
As for the video I swear I thought he was trying to review airplanes the way he spent so much time off the ground.Just fantastic
Love my 86 ❤️
Huss Ali same it's a great car
The Porsche looks like the bargain there until you consider running costs of a 10 year old, 70k miles performance car... No thanks.
Personally, I also think that big HP figures on the public road is not really the way to go. Legally in most countries the most you'll ever be able to do is 70mph, and if your car can do that in 4ish seconds, where's the fun? These are not designed to be track cars...
I recently had to have my car repaired, and wringing the neck of the little 1.2 they gave me while I waited was a lot more fun than I remembered. It went nowhere fast, but put a massive grin on my face. A car that makes you work a bit for your performance is surely where the fun is on the road?
Out of these 3, the one I'm most excited about is hands down the GT86. I'd love to have one.
Ken R You wanna go!!!!!!!
michael CRACKA yep ill slap you so hard your lips will make it to the hospital before you.
lol, the nurse is like wtf?
Chris Harris is an absolute legend, a true national hero. I salute you sir.
I have owned mine for 2 years. The experience that I have gone thru with this disoskw i always hear good compliments on this car always. :)
The GT86 is lots of fun with somewhat low power,
The 350Z is a lot less fun with a lot more power
The Cayman is 80% the fun of the GT86 and 80% the power of the 350Z, the best of both worlds.
but the cayman costs even 2nd hand little bit more than a fabric new gt86 and as well you get an 86 for 15k with not that much kilometers on the tachometer
I still don't care about his statements, i would still buy the fairlady 370Z my dream car
thats because you dont care about the feeling of driving. you care about the feeling of when your friends look at you in that car.
It's the feeling you actually get from the particular power from the ride man since Toyota 86 delivers 200 horsepower not my type still love the car though but my type and choice is the 370z !
I used to own a modded 370. It just feels heavy when turning. The way it steers is kinda sloppy compared to BRZ. My new BRZ is more fun stock. Not as punchy on the straights but I guess more power will ruin the perfect balance of the car. Toyota engineer explained it something like a triangle with equal lengths and angles
new legend was born with gt86
If you've ever owned a DC2 type r, you know what he's talking about with the toyota. It's hasn't got the most powerful engine but it is hugely exciting. Paired with an amazing chassis, it's just so much fun to blast around in. Iv owned much more powerful cars since but the DC2 is still my favourite car I've owned.
I still would choose the zed. it's the car I choose with my heart
Great video.
I feel the GT86 is like a new-born version of the good old japanese fun cars from the 85-90s like a CRX or, more spot on an AE86 of course.
Cheap, Reliable, insurable and maintainable fun :D
You might buy the used Cayman but then the cost to insure, maintain etc... is definitely not the same.
It is except all the new sports cars come with
at least 300hp....
@@friskmall6327 straight line speed is for fast cars. Corners are for fast drivers.
wow 11 years. how the world has changed, and gt86 hasn't.
it is to be remembered as one of the lastest and greatest of all time.
and you can still buy it for realistic money.
Really looking forward to Chris' review of the new BRZ/86
I disagree with you on your 370Z review, but I do agree with your driving.
I love Chris Harris but in this case I'm going to call him out. Total hypocrisy! How can you go on about how a car makes you "feel" and how great the BRZ/GT86 is right after he completely denounced the MX5/Miata?
I just switched from a stock 2003 Miata to a Brz. The Miata is shit stock, yes it’s fun and flickable but body roll is tremendous and understeer the Brz is a much more focused sports car.
Watching for the 1000th time.
Thinking about replacing my GT86 with a 987 Cayman. This video makes me want a Porsche more. It also makes me like my Toyota more.
put a supercharger, turbo exhaust, and an upgraded cooling system on a 2014 frs for 6 grand at most to make it the best budget sports car (you can get a barely used 2014 for 20 grand)
Supercharger with turbo exhaust???? My guy I can tell you know nothing about cars lmao.
@@miguelfragoso7023 I think he means sc/turbo, exhaust
Getting a 86 in 2 days !!
Yo give us an update!
Chris is the tihs! He gives a great review EVERY time...
"Because of it's nature. Not because of it's quantity."
Good one.
It's not how fast you drive, it's how you drive fast.
"The Zed gets wheelie above 5000 RPM"
Huh? That's where the power builds like mad on a VQ37VHR.
don't think he said "wheelie" lol
Weezy
The VQ37VHR has a nearly flat torque curve from about 2K rpm to almost redline at 7500 rpm, thanks primarily to the VVEL intake valve timing technology. The corresponding horsepower curve is very linear over the whole rev range with maximum hp occurring close to the redline rpm. The Z was not designed to have a peaky engine that concentrates power over a specific rpm band. I had an old Porsche that was designed along the lines of an old-school race engine that was weak below 4300 rpm but exploded after 5k rpm. Highly tuned race engines like that can be demanding to drive on the street and require good concentration and alertness in order to be driven properly, so as to extract the most power from the engine.
Yeah that was kinda dumb. I don't think he knew how to drive it.
Great video, from what I understand the GT86 is really keeping the 86 name alive
Thats why I love my 99 BMW E-36 M3. Light, RWD, 4 seats, plenty of power, fun (handles beautifully) and isnt expensive to maintain. M Power, the ultimate driving machine.
"of more expertly crafted flavors" i am a Z owner and that hit me in my chest hard. (still a z lover)
A Z with 5k in suspension, brakes and tires will flip this test on its head. I have a G35, bought it for 6 grand, modded it and I love driving it like it’s free
@@nathanchildress5596 and a proper lsd for the z. Than you can put a turbo on the brz
I couldn't give a rats ass about other peoples opinion on the Z. I drive mine daily since new and have never regretted getting one.
I believe the drawback of the Z is that it is based off of a generic mid-sized Nissan sedan platform shared with a few other Nissans and Infiniti's, while the other two are their own specific sports car platforms.
I driven the 370z and 350z also owned a g35 and they were all great, I loved the power of the 370 and the brakes I thought were going to put me through the windshield they were that good. But when I drove the frs I had to own it. So I did and it was the best choice I ever made, I've owned it close to a year now and it makes me smile just as much as the day I bought it.
I own a 370z and loved it. The frs looks ok but has no power. My Prelude is the same power wise. For the money, id suggest buying a used 370z vs getting stuck with a huge overpriced brz/frs. Ive driven the frs and it was ok, just about the same as my Honda though. Ill stick with my classier sexier 370z.
"Nissan falls to pieces (when you push it hard)?"
Are you insane? The 370Z beats or keeps up with the best sports cars in the world on race tracks. You're simply wrong. And since when is 3300 pounds heavy? That's the same weight as a 2015 Corvette Stingray.
Autos389 www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive_Versus_Nissan_370Z_vs_Porsche_Cayman_S.shtml
Nissan 370Z vs Porsche Cayman S
"The Z's chassis responds more slowly but more fluidly than the Cayman -
it may be that quick applications of throttle, mainly during transitions
in which the suspension's still sorting itself out, can overwhelm the
stability computers. When I turn it off, I discover the Z's dirty
secret: Those controls shut the car down before it truly gets good, and
the harder the 370Z is pushed, the better it gets.
Nissan engineers kept the car's weight distribution at 53/47 front to
rear, which doesn't seem ideal for a sports coupe. The theory is that
the car's dynamic weight distribution - the balance when the car's
accelerating out of a corner - becomes dead even as the load shifts. I
believe it. With stability control on vacation, the car dives into
corners without a hint of understeer and when I get back on the throttle
earlier, the rear hunkers down, grabs hold of the road, and pushes out
of the bend with tremendous grip. The transition between braking and
getting back on the gas delivers just the right amount of rotation.
Other than the seriously underpowered Miata, it's hard to think of
another front-engine car for normal-people money with this much balance.
It makes me wonder why Porsche went through all the effort of moving
the engine somewhere so hard to get at."
@@Autos389 I have a 370Z sport coupe and I drive it with the stability control off and found that it handles exceptionally well in powering through twisty corners, did that on a very fast drive on California's coastal US 1 and was amazed at how well it performed. After I put stiffer Hotchkis sways and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on the car it became an even better handling car.