Why Sweetspot Training Feels So Difficult - Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 194
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- Опубликовано: 23 янв 2019
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I loved that you split this up into smaller segments. Please do that to all the podcasts? Its hard to find time to get through the whole thing. Smaller Segments make it easier to watch/listen to the sections that I'm interested in.
Great idea guys to split the long video on certain topics
Pro trick : you can watch series at flixzone. Me and my gf have been using it for watching a lot of movies these days.
@Zaiden Demetrius yea, I've been using flixzone for years myself :)
Ivy provided me with a mantra to get through Sweetspot, "Let's see what happens." Even at the same power and cadence, the misery tends to ebb and flow; just maintain form and let it pass - - if you're lucky.
This video has been very enlightening, Sweet Spot has been for me the toughest of all, and I thought that it had to do with the fact that I try it off season. Great work splitting the video, also you can post the index so we can go directly to the important subjects.
You guys are the BEST! Love the pod and TR
Great practical advice, exactly what I have been looking for
Anyone else remember when the guys were basically saying that carbs are the devil a long time ago in the podcast? I'm glad they saw the light and now encourage carbs for endurance athletes!
As a new user of TR, this is sooooo relevant. I’m in sweet spot build week 4 high volume and I take a can of coke after the 1st or 2nd interval and it makes all the difference. If you don’t eat enough carbs that day you will TANK!
Just like so many who commented earlier, I too have been struggling and not completing my SST workouts. incredibly hard. This is my first 4-5 months of training with TR. And I have been trying to loose some weight as well, and started all my workouts not fully carbed up. So going forward - I am going to carb load, and use gels to get though my planned SST. Thanks.
Well, that explains why I bonked on the third interval in Antelope yesterday. Should have eaten more than a few eggs for breakfast 🤣
Love this topic! I have been a big fan of sweet spot workouts because they really helped me to perform my best in races. Nevertheless, I still have to prepare myself mentally and physically every time before a sweet workout as this type of workout challenges me the most! Thank you! Love TR app and TR podcast! ❤️
Thanks for the love, Diana! So stoked you're with us!
You helped answer a few of my open questions: how to eat for sweet spot, how to control negative self talk during learning curve, how to improve muscular endurance (really haven't done much sweet spot in the past). Thanks. Like the clipped format, too.
We're so glad to hear that our videos have made a difference for you!
Wow she's good. keep her.
Yeah, she's a boss.
Agreed. Great addition to the show. Her interjections are very well presented and easily digested.
Agreed! Make her a permanent fixture or regular guest!
I need to add: I think it’s amazing how TrainerRoad has changed me as a rider. Today I’m in a very tough block of training and a sweet spot workout is actually the most gentle workout I have all week and I’m looking forward to it!
Great stuff. So Sweet spot is the king
Holy cow. This is a revelation to me. For a year now I’ve wondered why I suck at Sweet spot. This was a great video, at least for me. I will definitely approach SST differently. On another note, how often should I be doing a sweet spot session?
That depends on goals and time of year. If you check out our training plans you'll see that we do more of it in the base phase then change it up depending on what type of racer you are. IE century riders do more sweet spot compared to a crit rider as they get closer to their goal event(s).
Trainerroad with sweet spot training and this podcast is simply the best investment an amateur cyclist like myself can make. I laugh when people need stimulation when doing IDT...how does one focus on anything other than trying to hold the target power and breathing when doing SST??? Keep up the great work with the podcast and training programs!
You'd be surprised, I watch TV for anything other than very challenging VO2 max intervals
"Never diet on the bike"... let me write this in my wall
Die or diet?
Great podcast, just did a long 2 1/2 sweet spot workout yesterday and the last hour was HARD.
As for the format, it would be cool to vary the host once in a while so that the host is not the one talking the most. It would bring a better dynamic to the podcast. I think a host's role is to get the others to share what THEY think rather than the host sharing what he or she thinks.
What an amazing channel , it’s like they are telepathic and know what burning questions are on my mind constantly. Thank you very much 😁😁 big shout out from port Macquarie NSW Australia 🇦🇺
Glad to see I'm not the only one who's really underfueling himself. I've done way too many 3 or 4 hour rides and not eaten anything but 1 or 2 powerbars. Needless to say that the first few weeks of the sweet spot base high volume were hard. I also just started using caffeine gels and they really take the edge off for me.
We're in a movement to fight under-fueling! ;)
this was me today, I was doubting my fitness and struggling. I was smashing my mate on the hills, but that flat sweet spot zone I was dying
Sweet spot is fairly easy even fasted! If it feels THAT hard you are either not rested enough or you have over estimated your FTP. Also it will feel harder if you start too hard. Start at the lower end (85% FTP) and work up from there IF you feel you can. Or you just need to do more long zone 2 work. I will also add that although pros might sit at sweet spot in cyclocross between surges, that is still probably 400w! For amateurs we sit at vo2 power levels between surges! Sometimes you are at sweet spot just to keep moving in mud!
Good point, CX races have very different demands than other types of racing!
'don't ever diet on the bike'... I think you might have spotted my biggest problem. I started training (at 55 years old) and also calorie cutting to drop a few pounds. I've lost 5 lbs, yay! I'm miserable while training 😢
Glad we were able to help, we're stoked about how great you're about to feel on the bike!
Glad this video came out, Just had my sweetspot session yesterday and barely finished the last 2 intervals of it. I really thought I sucked. Tomorrow I'll be at sweetspot for 90 minutes. Any tips on how I can survive that duration in sweetpot? (I'm referring to the Antelope workout btw)
Eat them carbs. Try eating low-fat high carb throughout the day and see how that works. Try to get the carbs from whole food sources or whole grains (don't get them all from coke :-D).
Have a cup of coffee before the ride, get some pump up music going, put on some GoPro bike race footage on youtube and go for it!
Durianrider would appreciate this video.
Please don't bring him over here. Dude is toxic.
Yeah, let’s keep this clean and relevant
I have respect for my fit self but the older you get, i'm 52 the more respect you have for just keeping going. Especially when your fit self you are referring to was over 20 years ago.
It's the low cadence 4x11min at 75rpm that do me in. I feel accomplished at the end. I find the faster spins a lot easier. 20-25g carbs every 20 minutes Inc a banana right before I start is my feeding plan
Personally, I think sweet spot training feels like threshold intensity because it is threshold intensity. I haven't seen any evidence that would suggest that muscles and cells can tell the difference between sweet spot (88-94% of FTP) and threshold (100% of FTP)
Answer: you're not eating enough carbs. 100g/hr for one of the hosts. Otherwise few specifics.
Back to back sweet spot days is hard but I have a guilty pleasure for this. Somehow I feel like every block done on the second day is an achievement of some sort and it allows me to hang on.
Uhmm yeah, this just happened to me during my morning workout today. Couldn't hold sweet spot. really bummed me out...lol...until I saw this podcast. Then I realized that I failed to fuel. 2 months before, I held above threshold at a sustained level...two days in a row! Gotta fuel!!
Same here!
I've noticed watching TV doesn't help at all during the SS intervals
is it possible that there is a time of year/season for sweet spot and time for polarized training? like Sweet spot for base and polarized type training for build and peak? with shorter more intense intervals as it gets closer to the time a person wants to peak? just an idea, I am sure it is not original but just wanted to mention it
Unless you are a pro or have too much time, forget about polarized training.
Haven’t they jumped on the Zone 2 bandwagon more since this was published?
when doing "sweetspot" training would sort of carb intake (grams) to you aim for roughly ? the day before and on the day ?? thx
While we don't have an exact number for this, we do have this Blog article will be a good resource for you :)
blog.trainerroad.com/how-to-reach-optimal-body-composition/
There is a whole section on carbohydrate intake.
Never diet on the bike.. - How does one keep a healthy body composition for bike racing and perform ???
Hi everyone, thank you for this Chanel and the programme. I love then trainerroad programme. I used to be quite fir it two hip operations and five years of set backs I bought a wahoo 5 weeks ago. I tried another programme but came across the podcast and decided to try trainerroad, it is fantastic. I love it and thank you for helping me get healthy again. Take care, from England.
Happy to hear it Alan! The podcast is a great resource for our athletes, so glad its helped you in your training and recovery. Cheers!
You can totally diet on the bike, it's part of training, just not for anything above zone 2! However if you've had a good carb meal the previous day you should be good for 30-60 mins sweet spot fasted, in fact it would probably make you feel less sluggish. Anymore than 60 mins then yes have some rice 2-3 hours before and a gel or similar fast acting carb every 20 mins during.
Ok thx
I am currently doing the build phase General build plan. After watching this video, I am definitely not fueling enough. Any recommendations for fueling before and during the workout. Gel is not my thing. How many gram of carbs should one take every hour?
Don’t quote me, but I believe 50-60g carbs is recommended for hard exercise.
You can go up to around 90-100g an hour if you do a 2:1 mix of glucose to fructose. That's a LOT though. You could do sports drinks and chews. There's also regular food like bananas, toast with honey, stuff like that. Just try to minimize fiber, protein or fat intake. That will slow the absorption of the carbs.
For fueling before, I like a carb-centric meal around 3 hours before my workout. So a big bean and rice burrito with veggies in it on a whole wheat tortilla (Qdoba has this in the states) if I'm working out in the afternoon. For mid-morning, I'll do bowls of oatmeal where I'll aim for 100 grams of carbs from oats.
If I'm working out first thing in the morning I like Ezekiel Rasin Bread toasted with honey on it. I'll do one slice for every 30 minutes I'm working out. So a two-hour workout will be four slices. I do this right before I get on the bike and still do gels/sports drink while I ride and I find it makes the early morning workouts a lot easier. I do have an iron stomach though so your mileage may vary.
Like all things in nutrition, it's important to experiment to find out what works for you. The key is to just pay close attention to how you feel with which kind of fuel. Lots of people don't make the connection and attribute other things to poor or great performance.
Thx Nate do you ever use Maple for your training
@@conradlong326 Like maple syrup? I've tried it, it was fine. The package I used got my fingers all sticky so I haven't used it since.
Get a bigger room and make her permanent in the podcast. She’s a keeper 😃
what about erg mode, does that change the rpe of sweet spot?
As long as your trainer is calibrated, ERG mode should not change the RPE of your efforts.
Would you guys recommend the Traditional Base plan for somebody that has the time with a main goal off-season goal being to lose weight???
I’m a 20 year old cat 3, and it’s going to be harder for me to keep winning unless I lose some pounds. Currently at 4.2 w/kg, but I have 7kg of fat to lose to be at 10% body fat. If I didn’t lose power, I’d be at 4.5 w/kg!
I want to do it in the healthiest way so that I’m not dieting on the bike, like Amber mentioned.
Hey, Brandon! If you're a cat3 and racing, you should definitely use Plan Builder to create a plan that best suits your discipline, and the timeline to prepare for racing (covid climate pending, lol). Focus on doing the work and getting faster in the best way that suits your discipline, nourish yourself and fuel your workouts, and the weight loss will just happen! Plan Builder is great for that reason. :)
@@TrainerRoad Thank you for the response! I’ve done the Sweet Spot 1,2 High Volume and the 8 week short interval build. Coach Chad caught my ear when he said that if he wanted to lose weight, he might spend a lot of time in zone 2 where the fat:carb burned ratio is higher than sweet spot. If there’s any legitimacy to that, I think traditional base may be the way to go!
How many hours of sweetspot is achievable in a single session, provided you have the fitness? You talk about carbs and we can only take on so many. My friend says he's doing all the climbs in Marmotte this Sept. at sweetspot. Just how achievable is that if he's climbing for 5 hours or so? thanks
Hey Mark!
This article does a good job of addressing this question:
www.trainerroad.com/blog/how-to-build-a-pacing-plan-for-long-events/
Cheers!
@@TrainerRoad Great thanks ! :))
It's incredibly frustrating that I've submitted several good questions to the podcast group over the past few months and not a single one gets picked.
Hey there John!
We get hundreds of questions sent to us every week that we go through and although we would love to answer every one, we aren't able to do that in our 2 hour recording period. We aren't purposely skipping over your questions by any means. That said, if your question isn't answered on the podcast, an excellent resource for getting your training questions answered is our Forum. You can find this here: forum.trainerroad.com/
We have Nate, Chad, and Jonathan on there along with a couple community managers and myself to answer questions. On top of that, there are hundreds of incredibly knowledgeable people on that forum with a huge range of experiences that provide incredible insight on each others training questions. :)
- Ian
Have you tried posting it in forum.trainerroad.com? TR employees and/or podcast guys and/or forum regulars might be able to help.
The best questions are ones that have applications to a larger audience.
@@natepearson5317 That's probably my issue. My latest question was regarding the use of the KICKR Climb during tough intervals, and how it gives some feeling of relief even though my wattage stays the same. Would have loved to hear your input as to why that is happening and what's going on.
@@johntrussell6373 Are you saying that riding at an incline makes the intervals feel easier? That probably has to do with hip angle and motivation? I'm not really sure. Do you do most of your training on hills?
@@natepearson5317 Yes, that is what I'm saying. It's interesting how even though I feel like I need to take a break between hard intervals, I can just raise the CLIMB and keep doing the same wattage but get relief. I thought this would make for interesting podcast discussion and would love to hear coach Chad's insight.
Wow! I still think of Amber as “the new person” and this is two years old! I really miss having the 3 or 4 of you in the room together interacting, talking trash, laughing, and telling stories.
Cycling in sweet spot is not difficult.Pain increases above sweet spot obviously.
It’s quite effective Chad like you said but not the most effective.
It has its place but it’s not the be all and end all.
Riding slow to go faster makes a lot of sense so it should be addressed .
TrainerRoad offers loads of sweet spot training but no Polarised training which when implemented correctly is way more effective.
Even if the training volume is the same as sweet spot volume.
Fact.
Muscular endurance is best trained with traditional base.
The adaptions train fat burning efficiency way better than sweetspot.
Dieting on the bike is fine .
Depends on your goals.
I used to like TrainerRoad podcast but that was pure dribble.
did I miss the point where they say what really is the sweetspot ?
Remember guys.
When it's getting so hard that you feel like you're gonna pass out, just tell your body : "Don't ever die on the bike".
Haha always a good suggestion!
Can someone explain "Sweetspot" with a power meter? Please
Sweetspot is the power zone that lies between 88 and 94% of your FTP (Functional Threshold Power)
@@TrainerRoad FTP is sustainable power for one hour, yes?
In theory, yes. You should be able to sustain your FTP for around an hour. So, sweet spot would be just below that.
Its different for me. Sweetspot does not feel hard at all. 100% ftp from the other hand is just brutal, i start suffering from minute 3
Either my FTP is off, or I just love sweet spot.
MAYBE BOTH ;)
How do you find ur sweet spot?
Sweet Spot is a power zone between 88 and 94% of your FTP.
This is why you need to rewatch your own material. They still have the same conversational problems they had 5 years ago. Needless interjections that don't add anything. Not letting people speak cutting in before finishing. Both the hosts but mainly Jonathan. It's especially a problem for making a podcast but just the same for normal conversation.
Now I don't feel so bad that my FTP number is so low. My FTP number, that I got from a lab with my hard earned money, seems more realistic than these calculated methods. The lab even gave me a piece of paper with my fat burning and sugar burning percentages at different power levels. What do you think of lab results compared to a test taken on my own? If you can't do a 10 minute interval at high zone 3 then your FTP number has to be really inflated/wrong/incorrect. I never have to take sugar when I do my sweet spot training. Just giving some feed back and not hating. If someone is fat, like I was, you can diet on the bike.
sweet spot training is painful as hell!
Numerous podcasts from other coaches address the issue that many, if not most, people overestimate their FTP. The reason sweetspot feels hard is that the calculations are off. A ‘Sweetspot’ zone based on an overestimated FTP is actually a high threshold zone if calculated off an accurate FTP. There is no real reason an interval of 20 minutes at 90% of a power you can hold for 45 minutes to an hour should be hard. 2x 20 minutes at 100-105% is another story.
what is sweet spot
Sweet Spot is the zone that lies between 88% and 94% FTP.
These intervals aim to further muscular endurance and enhance aerobic capabilities. Additional related benefits include improved sugar storage in the muscles, better utilization of fat for fuel, a higher capacity for more intense workouts later on and increased power output at moderate, predominantly aerobic intensities
TrainerRoad is that good to start at the beggining with this and complete the base phase list and after that going to build phase and above ??
There are multiple reasons why sweetspot training feels hard. I believe your testing protocols grossly overestimate a user's FTP and so their sweetspot session turns into a threshold plus session.
Really not a fan of these clogging up my RUclips Subscriptions feed.
Why not just add links in the original video for the time-stamps that these appeared in, then you can directly link to these from the forum with questions.