Lsa, Lift and Lobe intensity discussion
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- We discuss Lsa , Lift and lobe intensity in this video.
Lykins motorsports channel
/ @lykinsmotorsports
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Glad you and those in your area are doing ok.
Yes we are
Cam designing is pure science
@derickmorgan4956 yes, mostly just complicated math
I'm just a shade-tree mechanic, but I understood everything you said; Great Job.
And like you, say, 25 years ago when I built my first street engine nobody wanted to help me. and nobody in the magazines were helping either. Everybody was extolling 9/1 engines with monster cams, and everything had to be ported to within near sudden death ports. and nobody would even put my engine together at 11/1 for me, which later I made into 11.3. Nope, they didn't want their name on a blown-up engine. Well, that engine has over 100,000 miles on it now and has evolved thru three cams, to less cam almost the whole way (streeter), and never detonated even a tiny bit.. So
You, Salter, DV, and a few others are doing a bang-up job; keep on doing what your doing, cuz street hot-rodders like me, need to get it right the first time.
Absolutely, ty!
Mark Twain ~ "It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what your certain of that just isn't so"
(paraphrase)
Absolutely 💯
Those who are worth learning from are still learning themselves. Thanks as always.
My pleasure!
Thanks for doing a video under the conditions there. Glad you're doing ok.
@@dondotterer24 all good, your welcome
Thanks, Daniel. Like you, I love learning !!!! At 72 years old, it's tough to retain, but that's the good part of video !! Lol
You can do it!
Great discussion, thanks for the link. Appreciate you, bro.
You bet
"cams r the magic stick in a motor"...saw brets video...also...the more i listen the more i learn...!...thanks Daniel...for rock'n it with the generator...!..i hope u guys get your power back ASAP...!..hang in there..!
@@brianalbrecht4423 ty very much
Glad you have nothing but a power outage. Harness your kids energy and sell it back to the grid and power your shop 😂😂. You made perfect sense, and I totally understand and agree.
Lol, absolutely, 😊 🙏
I've been comparing and picking cams for years based on the most lift for the least amount of duration and never been disappointed. You've filled in some other blanks with this video. Great explanation on intensity, never heard that term but it makes a lot of sense. Really appreciate your taking the time to discuss this. Look forward to all of your videos. Stay safe, and God bless.
@doncarlson8391 glad it's helping
Loving ur content, pretty indepth stuff for beginners like me but I appreciate ur time sharing knowledge.
@@joeclone2686 absolutely 💯
If there is no common vocabulary, definitions, or vernacular discussions often become an attempt to translate or decode what they mean.
You're absolutely correct about stock rockers on Cleveland's. I've never ran less than .525" lift and the two biggest problems have been punching a hole in arm at the pushrod cup and bending pushrods.
@psychoholicslag4801 that's why I'm trying to share this information
Great video sir thank you very informative.
@@josephdemko33 welcome!
LS welfare case here, haha! Appreciate all the knowledge you share. Learned a bunch about cams recently from your videos. Great content
Awesome! Thank you!
"All the yougun's in the house makin' racket"!
Thanks for that. Man, you know, it's the @ .50 duration numbers that can really get you confused comparing cams if you don't pay attention to advertised duration too. LSA, as I understand after listening to you, is a result, not an input. But you can take the same duration numbers and play around with LSA. I tried using that cam calculator that like Summit has on their site and I think that opens a whole can of worms for me because you can play around with LSA as an input. I'm glad you make these videos so I can have a better understanding of what I'm looking for.
You are right on track
Thanks for the interesting video! My last 302 ran for 15 years with close to .550" lift with no problems (roller-rockers with studs of course); as long as you have good components properly set up there should be no problem.
@@alexgillies4183 absolutely
You make Alot of sense...its making more sense the more I understand cams in general...I've always ran SB chevys on the street- strip applications and the engine builder I used would always ask me alot of questions regarding my application like
What cubic inch
The weight of the car
Gear ratio at rear end
What type of transmission., and he always recommended a cam that was right for me, and I was happy and it always ran good and the engine was happy and it lived...hope that makes any sense.
@@stuartsullenbarger2023 absolutely
I need a cam that says hold my beer with the reverse lip wax, just kidding I don’t even drink… be safe and hopefully you’ll be up and running in no time!
Ha, ty
Best of luck with the cam challenge Mr Powell, it will be very curious to see who comes out on top
Yep, the suspense is killing me...ty
I can understand exploring lsa as a constant for a configuration. Intake, heads, valves, chambers, exhaust are what they are. Also, atmospherics of any given day are essentially fixed, plus exhaust speed doesn't really track with rpm - its mainly a chemistry event [since exhaust opens before bdc]. But then there's application, and it can throw a wrench in the works. I wish I knew more about Buick original cam specs from back in the day - when they rated engines for torque (not hp) on a street build... I suspect that work breaks the idea of "best" lsa being a fixed number. I've always admired that approach because a torque curve is the fingerprint of volumetric efficiency.
Evo is the real factor in the pressure curve
Grind them "nia" a cam with the cam nose almost as wide as the base circle and ask them if thats agressive enough.
Thanks for the video's!
Ty
Daniel you an him are the ones I watch
AWSOME
LSA is the result of intake and exhaust lobe timing events , most people have no idea at what degree the valve events take place , but that’s what should be how you decide what cam you need , lobe sep is the result of the valve events
Correct
Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
Thank You for sharing. I "think" people want to be experts when they talk, and cam science is literally like black magic for most people. I cringe whenever I hear someone talk about valve clearence while referencing the valve lift. what? I know next to nothing, The guy that I got cam advice from that worked the best always chose valve events and lobe profile that had the duration and lift you needed for your application and head flow and the LSA was "what it was". As Bob Ross would say, it is just a happy accident. Glad you all are doing OK in the aftermath.
@reevinriggin3570 absolutely, yep we are good
Well said
Makes complete sense
A little bit of knowledge is dangerous to the keyboard warriors 😂
Absolutely
Great information sir, I agree with you!
@@dominicmizzi4279 ty
Good to know.
Glad it helps
Here’s a cam story I head. My sisters 7th baby’s daddy’s cousins step mother dated old boy that had been in prison with a him-she from possum holler who’s 3rd cousins great grandfather made the first roller cam. He had been chased by revenuers so he welded two straight 8’s together using torch and horse shoes. He needed a cam. He found two 3/4 race cams drilled them lined with magnetite to keep lifters in place. Then got lug nuts from Roman chariot he had out back. Broke into skating rink took old steel wheels for rollers 45lc casings for lifter body and used dapper Dan lids to seal them. He welded the lug nuts on with the igniter box from model T and leads from jc Whitney. That car launched so hard the paint slid back 6” and needed trimmed off after every launch he perfected it with horse hoof file to tame it slightly. The secret specs are long gone sadly. The lift, duration, LSA was tattooed on his grandsons foot and in WWII he was eating by cannibals along with uncle bosey. No im not a cam expert like him. But I was wondering how I can get a t shirt I do actually work on cars 😂😂. Hope everyone enjoys this urban legend.
"Ramp Rates" & valve acceleration, 75 year old terms possibly coined by Ed Iskenderian or Chet Herbert, if not in early development radial engine engineering. Before roller cams became mass practical, the mushroom lifter proved increased ramp rates made more power by increasing low and mid lift valve acceleration... and, to think it all started with a baboon using/misusing a rock for a hammer.
Yep
I've seen all of your videos on both channels, and this is the first time I've come to the end feeling dumber than before.
Lol, that's not the goal!!
I watch him because he does 351 Cleveland’s
Good deal
Hope the family is safe. Would you ever consider a small to tier build guide?? Like a just about stock like say 300hp ls and a set to kill version of say 500hp. Maybe not a exact how to. But like a ball park that kinda explains principles like how much compression?
Yes, Definitely at some point
I know what you ment around 4 minutes in is not what you said, you and I both know the intake closing and the exhaust opening events are pretty far away from the overlap period. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
@@jeffreydurham5342 I thought the overlap period is when both valves are open at the same time. What are they far away from?
@@MichaelScudder72overlap is the period when the exhaust is CLOSING at the end of the exhaust stroke and the intake is OPENING at the beginning of the intake stroke.
@@jeffreydurham5342 👍
My bad. Only open at the same if there is positive overlap.
@@MichaelScudder72 Just about any Otto cycle engine I've ever seen has some overlap ( both valves are open slightly) at the end of the exhaust stroke. My original comment was about he just misspoke that the intake was closing and the exhaust was opening.
great vid as always! towards the beginning you mentioned or hinted about one of your designs, referencing how far in how far off, far enough in it wont matter? to me it hinted somewhat like you was going to discuss your cam design for the competition? maybe been wishful thinking on my end reading too far into your statement? but in watching the entire vid twice i can not find where you picked back up on that train of thought.
Yep, I totally got side tracked...
@@PowellCams id love to hear about your cam design choice for the comp, either way your vids are always informative and great to watch. side tracked or not your still putting great content and info out. the manner you present it, your personality make it both more entertaining, and easier to watch vs some of the talking down to us people on here.
@mitchm275 the whole "I'm smarter than you and I'm a guru" mentally is the problem with this industry... when videos start with a guy telling me how smart he is, I click off straight away....
"I need 108° cause I want that chop chop chop "
Yep
Not me, but sometimes people are more concerned with having the sound of the big overlap and a noisy gear drive, not really concerned about power. This lazy lobe setup will live with crappy 194 heads with stock valvetrain and springs.
Yes
Would be the rate of acceleration of the lifter, sweep degrees vs lift, rate of lift? But what is considered aggressive ? If you have a drive/race solid roller how much can you put in with moderate long life spring?
@@malglasspool9302 so many variables
fantastic job,,,,,ya on the dumbest guy in the room,,,,just pray the others do share knowlege
💯
.200 duration would be a good way to tell how aggressive a lobe is
I think you can make a Cam sound more Lumpy by opening the Exhaust sooner, and not move anything else
I think that would only make it louder because the exhaust valve opens more into the combustion event on the power stroke.
@@jeffreydurham5342 I know late ignition timing does make it louder
@@wisetirecutting7154exactly, delaying combustion so more is happening after the exhaust valve opens. Also seen it turn headers red!
need duration..need bump..cams that make you go bump.bump...bump....
If someone can solve the concentric dual VVT problem for the valley mounted single cam shaft there's a strip mine full of cash to be dug up.😂
Wish they could be talked into crossover headers that achieve 180 degree pulse notes.
180* headers were very limited in there power production. Camshaft advances , negated the small advantage of those god awful things.
Do you ever use flow bench data from the cylinder head and valve lift to choose the cam events for particular engine build?
@@jeffreybegeman9544 always
I'm I correct that no matter what you do you have to calculate how much overlap the engine needs and make sure it has it?
Overlap is definitely a factor
How do feel about sbc with 4-7 swaps or ls firing orders?
@@patrickrowe8160 it helps harmonics on the crank
@@PowellCams have you seen any power increases from the swaps? Or just longevity from the dampened harmonics?
@patrickrowe8160 just longevity, you might see single digits over 700hp
Would this also apply to turbocharged applications, where the more aggressive lobe will make more power or is this only for naturally aspirated applications?
@@rle1020 any engine application
I don't know what video you are talking about from lykins motorsports
It's linked in the description...
@@PowellCams The link is not in the description and only has the channel name
@@yojiholmesproductions fixed
@@PowellCams thanks and I'm surprised no one else noticed it
So i got a question about the intensity or valve acceleration. So if you have 250 260 duration at 50 with 290 and 300 at .006. so let's say i said man i wish my motor had better low end or punch and tried different gears to get more torque and low to rid range punch off the corner or something but still have fast valve acceleration. If i take away 5 degree away of duration at .050 would i need to away 5 degrees of .006 number or how much you do that. Just a example i run circle track and i am learning as i go so this is just a example if i wanted less overlap whatever to it happen and have fast valve acceleration . I know i may sound like i am confusing myself but just wondering how you would do a much torquier camshaft or more punch off the corner for short tracks and stuff and have fast valve acceleration
@chevyrc3623 there is a given acceptable intensity # for most stuff, so that carries through out
@@PowellCams oh got it ok thank you so it depends on situation thank you.
@@PowellCams and sweet so looking forward for more of your videos now I just learned intensity and valve acceleration which I mean I may not get all of it because i am sure every situation is different for different applications but yeah it's pretty cool guys like you sharing knowledge and most people around my age and i am 24 years old and i guess most people just want a off the shelf camshaft and say it fast but what made it fast is the question and your definitely sharing cool information that nobody around would know that is close to age age older people I know may but nice more knowledge the better like you said be the dumbest in a group to learn more that's a cool thought
I might be 100% off,but it would seem the valve events you grind in determine the lobes "intensity" and not the catalog
@@MichaelScudder72 you picking "lobe designs" to be ground on your cam, gotta pick the right one's
@@PowellCams gotcha. So the UGL cores you pick go hand in hand with where you are going to put your opening and closing events.
@@MichaelScudder72 definitely
None of you guys talk about the most important thing in cam design......
Core dimensions!
Without the right core dimensions your cam will never be right! :)
@freeradical6390 obviously you haven't been watching long....
@@PowellCams its sporadic.....when I cam get around to it.
Quick question. I'm not a comp fan. but how come 90 percent of their catalog cams have a 110 LSA?? Does Billy G. who used to work their not know anything? Also how come 90 percent of all cam company's oval track cams are on a 106?? Just learning my friend..
Manufacturability is why, Billy is 1 of the smartest lobe designers I know.