I use to live in Astoria, Queens, NYC. With population growth that neighborhood has alone and how many people live in Manhattan, the 76 St. tunnel would be really be needed to make traveling flexibility a need, especially traveling along Broadway from Steinway St. to the East River. Business, visitors, and residential neighborhoods along Broadway is growing a lot.
Q104 bus line needs more bus frequency, especially beneficial to residents from Vernon Blvd. who want to transfer to 7 train without having to transfer an additional time to either the N, R, M, and W trains. Also, Regal Cinemas on 35 Ave. & 38 St. is the closest movie house to Vernon Blvd. that can display movies produced in Hollywood at desired times.
i get that capacity is important but i feel like getting rid of the connection from the express to the local at queens plaza creates a huge headache for riders on 6th ave trying to get to deep queens and riders on 8th ave hoping to get to parts of astoria and woodside. i guess the real problem is how 63rd wasn’t built with a connection to queens plaza which would’ve solved everything imo, but as it is I’d rather it be interlined
What I forgot to mention was creating an infill station at Northern Blvd on the IND 63rd St line, so that F and M customers could transfer to E and K trains and vice versa. That station was part of the Program for Action, but got cut. Capacity is important, more important than one seat rides. When Queens is seeing rapid growth, every train on QBL and the 7 counts. Of course, we need a new rail tunnel, but we should build that tunnel to facilitate deinterlining, not enhance/build off of it. That would be a waste of resources.
NYC really needs more tunnels between New Jersey and Manhattan. A lot of these new services can run crosstown across Manhattan and continue to New Jersey, with no interlining at all.
If Chris Christie hadn't been so parochial and short-sighted by cancelling the Access to the Region's Core project in 2010, two new tunnels between Manhattan and New Jersey would be almost, if not entirely, completed by now.
Well we can start with a 7 train extension into New Jersey to better serve Hudson County and ease congestion on the Lincoln Tunnel. Also don’t stop there. Extend the L train via 10th Avenue to 72nd Street first, and then via 79th Street and across the Hudson River to New Jersey, serving Bergen County and the Meadowlands.
@@empirestate8791There have been some official proposals to extend the 7 train (Flushing Line) to Secaucus, as the tracks end at 26th Street. However, nothing has come from that yet. It should still be pursued though.
@@TheRailLeaguerThe L is better off going towards Secaucus, meeting the 7 extension in a quad-track tunnel under the Hudson. The 7 would veer off under Washington Street. The PATH should be cut up, with the 7 taking the tunnels from just south of Hoboken, to just north of Grove Street, where the tunnel would extend south through Jersey City, linking with the HBLR at Liberty State Park, taking over both southern branches, becoming grade-separated in the process. HBLR would be truncated to the section to operate north of Liberty State Park. The 6 would take over the entirety of the WTC-Newark Line, fully de-interlining the PATH.
I mean, that deinterlining plan is straight out of Vanshnookenraggen's and Uday Schultz's plan. But, you don't really need to do this all at once, you can start with low level service swaps. F/M and B/N swaps would be a good start. Then, judging on rider feedback, you would continue.
This seems like a better version of the 63rd Street tunnel that we actually got: more coverage, intercepts Astoria and Lexington lines and effectively forces F/M swap.
After watching this video, I’ve decided to scrap my current Queensboro connector proposal for this new one: My new proposal would have the E and F run along 53rd Street and QBL express while the R runs along 63rd and QBL local, and the N and W handle 59th and Astoria. When enough funds are available to build the Second Avenue Subway with 4 tracks as originally intended, then we can introduce the U, and reimagine the V. The T and U can run express while the V runs local. The V can run with the R along 63rd Street and QBL local to Forest Hills and the G can run along a new extension along Northern Boulevard. For the K, we will have it run 8th Avenue Local, replacing the C. The K will start off at World Trade Center with the E, and then branch off from 42nd Street-PABT to run along 50th Street, and then meet up with the G, and the 2 lines run along on Northern Boulevard. To ease the congestion at 36th Street, Queens Plaza and , I propose converting 36th Street into an express station, as well as build a lower level for G and K trains. Since the G and K will replace the M and R at Queens Plaza, the local tracks between 36th Street and Queens Plaza will be abandoned as they will be replaced by tracks connecting to the new extension along Northern Boulevard. As for the M, it’ll run local with the Q along the northern part of Second Avenue while the T and U continue running express. The Q, T and U will continue running north into the Bronx, with the Q and T running along either 3rd Avenue or Webster Avenue while the M runs along 125th Street towards Broadway, and the U runs along Southern Boulevard. I know my revised plan for Queens and the Bronx may still cause delays at Lexington Avenue-63rd Street, seeing as how R trains have to switch tracks, but I really don’t want to take the R off of Queens Boulevard. And that brings me to the next part of my proposal, which is focused around Brooklyn. The R and W will terminate at City Hall while the E and K replace it, taking over the lower part of the BMT Broadway line and the Montague Street Tube, and later 4th Avenue local, while the B and D run express. A connection is built between Cortlandt Street and Canal Street, while the current E terminal platform at World Trade Center is closed off and converted into a passageway. If the R and W were to be extended back into Brooklyn, we can extend them via a brand new tunnel under the East River, and have them run local on the IND Fulton Street line to Euclid Avenue, while the A and C run express, with the C replacing the A to Lefferts Boulevard. As for the BMT 4th Avenue line, I propose that after 36th Street, the B and D run along West End while the E and K continue along 4th Avenue, with the E skipping 45th and 53rd Street while the K stops at those stations. After 59th Street, the K will run to Bay Ridge-95th Street while the E runs along the Sea Beach line. The B will terminate at Bay Parkway and the D and E will terminate at Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue. The N and Q will handle Brighton, with the Q running express and the N running local. The Q will terminate at Brighton Beach while the N continues on to Coney Island. The J will also be extended along the new tunnel under the East River into Brooklyn, but they will meet up with the F and G at Bergen Street (Lower level is reactivated). The F will run express while the G and J run local, to Church Avenue. The Z will be eliminated as a result. A station will be built at Atlantic Avenue-Court Street, so that passengers can transfer between the J, R and W. With service in the lower part of Brooklyn reimagined and completely de-interlined, let’s finish it up with the T and U terminating at Hanover Square and the V will merge with the F at Second Avenue, running express along Culver with the F and continuing down towards Kings Highway, where it will terminate, while the F continues on to Coney Island. Finally, we have a reimagining of CPW. I would continue having the B and C run local and the A and D running express, or have the A and B run express while the C and D run local, but to keep things consistent with the de-interlining, I’m gonna say we have the A and C run CPW local while the B and D run express. The B will replace the A from 168th Street and Inwood-207th Street, and the C will continue terminating at 168th Street, while the A will run with the D to the Bronx, up to Bedford Park Boulevard, while the D terminates at Norwood-205th Street. With this plan, the R can continue using Jamaica Yard and share R160’s with the E, F, and the reimagined V train. A new yard can be constructed to store G and K trains at Bayside, where the Northern Boulevard line will terminate (both the G and K will use R211’s). The W can share R179’s and R211’s with the A, and the B, N and Q can continue using Coney Island Yard to share R68/A’s and R211’s.
These are my preferences for the BMT & IND: Spuyten Duyvil-236th Street to the Hamilton Beach via Riverdale local, Saint Nicholas Avenue express, Central Park West express, 8th Avenue express, Fulton Street express, Liberty Avenue express, & Rockaway local. (A) Getty Square-Prospect Street to the Far Rockaway Loop via Riverdale express, Saint Nicholas Avenue express, Central Park West express, 8th Avenue express, Fulton Street express, Liberty Avenue express, & Rockaway local. Inwood-215th Street to Freeport-Mill Road via Saint Nicholas Avenue local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, Fulton Street local, Liberty Avenue local, & Merrick express. (C) Inwood-215th Street to Ozone Park-Lefferts Boulevard via Saint Nicholas Avenue local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, Fulton Street local, & Liberty Avenue local. South Hempstead-Southern State Parkway to Bayonne Bridge via Peninsula Boulevard local, Merrick local, Archer Avenue local, Queens Boulevard express, 53rd Street local, 8th Avenue local, Washington Street local, Union Street local, Brighton local, Fort Hamilton Parkway local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island Expressway local, Clove Road local, Richmond Terrace local, & Dr MLK JR Expressway local. (E) Roy Wilkins Park-Foch Boulevard to Bard Avenue via Peninsula Boulevard local, Merrick local, Archer Avenue local, Queens Boulevard express, 53rd Street local, 8th Avenue local, Washington Street local, Union Street local, Brighton local, Fort Hamilton Parkway local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island Expressway local, & Clove Road local. Co-Op City to Clearview-Willets Point Boulevard via Co-Op City, Burke Avenue, Concourse local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, Fulton Street local, Liberty Avenue local, 168th Street, Union Turnpike, & Utopia Parkway. (K) Fordham Road to Euclid Avenue via Concourse local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, & Fulton Street local. Throgs Neck-Schurz Avenue to Tottenvile-Hylan Boulevard via Tremont Avenue, Bruckner Boulevard, Burke Avenue, Concourse local, Central Park West local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, Manhattan Bridge, Brighton express, Coney Island local, West End express, 86th Street local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island expressway local, Clove Road local, Richmond Terrace local, West Shore Expressway local, Amboy Road local, & Chelsea Street local. (B) Bedford Park Boulevard to Brighton Beach via Concourse local, Central Park West local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, Manhattan Bridge, & Brighton express. Bay Terrace-Cross Island Parkway to Bensonhurst-Bay Parkway via Throgs Neck Bridge, Bruckner Boulevard local, Burke Avenue, Concourse local, Central Park West express, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, 4th Avenue Express, & West End local. (D) Norwood-205th Street to 9th Avenue via Concourse local, Central Park West express, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, 4th Avenue Express, & West End local. New Hyde Park-Lakeville Road to Coney Island-Stilwell Avenue via Hillside Avenue express, Queens Boulevard express, 63rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, Culver express, & Coney Island local. (F) Jamaica-179th Street to Ditmas Avenue via Hillside Avenue local, Queens Boulevard express, 63rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, & Culver express. JFK Airport-TWA Hotel to Stuyvesant Heights-Bainbridge Street via Van Wyck Expressway local, Queens Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, & Malcolm X Boulevard local. (V) Atlantic Avenue to 2nd Avenue via Van Wyck Expressway local, Queens Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, & 6th Avenue local. Forest Hills-71st Avenue to Coney Island-Surf Avenue via Queens Boulevard local, Crosstown local, Culver local, & Ocean Parkway local. (G) Court Square to Church Avenue via Crosstown local, Culver local, & Ocean Parkway local. Upper West Side-Broadway to Prince’s Bay-Hylan Boulevard via 86th Street (Manhattan) local, Roosevelt Island local, Crosstown local, Culver local, Coney Island local, West End express, 86th Street (Brooklyn) local, Staten Island Expressway express, Clove Road express, Richmond Terrace express, West Shore Expressway express, & Prince’s Bay local. (H) Upper West Side-Broadway to Neptune Avenue via 86th Street (Manhattan) local, Roosevelt Island local, Crosstown local, & Culver local. Colonial Heights-Verona Avenue to Coney Island-West 24th Street via Central Park Avenue local, Bronx River Parkway express, Webster Avenue express, Randall’s Island, 21st Street local, Crosstown express, Culver express, Ocean Parkway express, & Surf Avenue local. (U) Brooke Avenue to Coney Island-West 24th Street via Central Park Avenue local, Bronx River Parkway express, Webster Avenue express, Randall’s Island, 21st Street local, Crosstown express, Culver express, Ocean Parkway express, & Surf Avenue local. Inwood-Cypress Road to Battery Park via Sheridan Boulevard local, Rockaway express, Rockaway Beach Branch local, Queens Boulevard super-express, Broadway (Queens) local, 86th Street (Manhattan) local, & 2nd Avenue local. (I) Forest Park-Myrtle Avenue to Battery Park via Rockaway Beach Branch local, Queens Boulevard super-express, Broadway (Queens) local, 86th Street (Manhattan) local, & 2nd Avenue local. Manhattanville-Saint Clair Place to Bloomfield-Edward Curry Avenue via 125th Street local, 2nd Avenue local, & North Shore Subway semi-express. (T) Manhattanville-Saint Clair Place to Saint Joseph’s Avenue via 125th Street local, 2nd Avenue local, & North Shore Subway local. Crotona Park-Wilkins Avenue to Island Park-Austin Boulevard via Claremont Parkway local, Concourse local, 2nd Avenue express, Nassau Street local, Brooklyn Bridge, Fulton Street Elevated local, Canarsie local, Liberty Avenue Elevated local, Merrick local, Lincoln Avenue local, & Long Beach Road local. (Y) 149th Street-Grand Concourse to Springfield Boulevard via Concourse local, 2nd Avenue express, Nassau Street local, Brooklyn Bridge, Fulton Street Elevated local, Canarsie local, Liberty Avenue Elevated local, & Merrick local. West Hempstead-Sycamore Street to Bull’s Head-Victory Boulevard via Hempstead Turnpike local, Jamaica local, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, North Shore Subway semi-express, & Dr MLK JR Expressway local. (J) 168th Street to Oakland Avenue via Jamaica local, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, & North Shore Subway local. Bronx Park to Dyker Beach Park-86th Street via White Plains Road Subway local, College Point Boulevard local, Northern Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica local, Lexington Avenue (Brooklyn) local, Myrtle Avenue local, Manhattan Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street local, 7th Avenue local, Sea Beach local, & 12th Avenue local. (M) College Point-5th Avenue to Fort Hamilton Parkway via College Point Boulevard local, Northern Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica local, Lexington Avenue (Brooklyn) local, Myrtle Avenue local, Manhattan Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street local, 7th Avenue local, & Sea Beach local. Pelham Bay Park to Lawrence via Fordham Road-Pelham Parkway local, 9th Avenue express, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica express, & Rockaway Boulevard express. () Inwood-207th Street to 133rd Avenue via Inwood local, Dyckman Street local, 9th Avenue local, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica express, & Rockaway Boulevard local. Bayside-Northern Boulevard to Clove Lake Park via Springfield Boulevard local, Hillside Avenue local, Archer Avenue local, Jamaica express, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, & Forest Avenue express. (Z) Jamaica Center to Tompkinsville-Victory Boulevard via Archer Avenue local, Jamaica express, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, & Forest Avenue local.
Harlem-135th Street to Canarsie Pier via Madison Avenue local, 86th Street local, West End Avenue local, 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street local, & Canarsie local. (L) 34th Street-Hudson Yards to Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway via 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street local, & Canarsie local. Harlem-125th Street to Tottenville-Bentley Street via 1st Avenue local, 86th Street local, West End Avenue local, 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street express, Canarsie express, Interborough local, North Shore Subway express, West Shore Expressway express, & Amboy Road express. (S) 18th Street to Brooklyn Army Terminal via 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street express, Canarsie express, & Interborough local. Fordham Plaza to Manhattan Beach-MacKenzie Street via 3rd Avenue Elevated local, Saint Ann’s Avenue Elevated local, RFK Bridge local, 21st Street local, 21st Avenue local, Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue express, Sea Beach local, & Coney Island local. (N) Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard to 18th Avenue via Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue express, & Sea Beach local. Crocheron Park-217th Street to Seagate-West 36th Street via 35th Avenue local, Crocheron Avenue local, Flushing local, Astoria Boulevard local, 82nd Street local, 21st Avenue local, Astoria express, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) express, Manhattan Bridge, Brighton local, Coney Island local, & Surf Avenue local. (Q) Ditmars Boulevard-111th Street to Newkirk Plaza via Astoria Boulevard local, 82nd Street local, 21st Avenue local, Astoria express, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) express, Manhattan Bridge, & Brighton local. Bay Terrace-Little Bay Park to Graniteville-Richmond Avenue via 200th Street local, Malba local, College Point Boulevard local, Northern Boulevard express, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, 4th Avenue local, Bay Street local, Front Street local, Victory Boulevard local, & Watchogue Road local. (R) Willets Point-World’s Fair Marina to Bay Ridge-Marine Avenue via Northern Boulevard express, 60th Street (Manhattan) local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, & 4th Avenue local. Starlight Park-174th Street to Travis-Wild Avenue via Sheridan Expressway local, West Farms Road local, Southern Boulevard local, Manida Street local, East Bay Bridge, Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, 4th Avenue local, West End local, 15th Avenue local, 86th Street local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island Expressway local, Clove Road local, & Victory Boulevard local. (W) Rikers Island to Dyker Heights-10th Avenue via East Bay Bridge, Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, 4th Avenue local, West End local, 15th Avenue local, & 86th Street local. Riverdale Park to New Dorp Beach via Concourse West express, Concourse express, 3rd Avenue Subway express, North Shore Subway local, Seaview Avenue express, & Lower Bay Shores express. (O) Spuyten Duyvil to Midland Beach via Concourse West local, Concourse express, 3rd Avenue Subway express, North Shore Subway local, Seaview Avenue local, & Lower Bay Shores local. Colonial Heights-Alta Vista Drive to South Ferry via Scarsdale Road local, Bronx River Parkway local, Webster Avenue local, & 3rd Avenue Elevated local. (P) Palmer Road to South Ferry via Bronx River Parkway local, Webster Avenue local, & 3rd Avenue Elevated local.
At least 76th Street tunnel served a slightly different location. But the downside that it would serve as local. Not unless they tunnel underneath Steinway Street and eventually connect it to the current Queens Blvd Express tunnel. Turning what was a fast stretch for the QBE would become much slower for at least one of these lines (or both considering that these lines usually run closer together to meet demand, which kind of defeats the purpose). If they just create a service that runs along Northern Blvd meeting this connection at Steinway Street, than it can offset some passengers from the QB cooridor. And than provide a station connection Woodhaven and Junction Blvd into the Rockaways. You know Queens really does need more trunk lines running through it. Not just another connection into crowded Queens Blvd cooridor.
Actually, the 76th Street Tunnel can serve either the local or express. The reason why only the express heads to the Rockaways and Lefferts is because it cannot merge with the local without delays. Now, this is only if you do not want any 8th Avenue service in the Rockaways (meaning that one of the 8th Avenue service only serves Lefferts): The 76th Street tunnel to Cambria Heights can be done with a simpler two-track design, and we can give the express trains the ability to run the new tunnel, while the local trains head up to Lefferts. The reason I go with this is that Lefferts is likely capped way below the capacity of the express, which would be 24TPH, and it is elevated. Meanwhile, the new tunnel can have a terminal that can either withstand 24TPH, or 36TPH if future-proofed for the SAS to take the local (this would have the former Fulton Local serve express to Lefferts). Granted, it ain't the best, but it is something to think about.
@@shadowmamba95 I'm Assuming Lefferts Blvd/Liberty Avenue would eliminated as a routing if the subway extension via Linden Blvd ever gets built out. And connecting Queens Blvd to the Rockaway would at least have to happen first. I'm also assuming that all local services would end at Euclid as it does today. This is similar to Church Avenue "G" and Continental Ave "M" and "R". No one would want to have a local when they have an express option currently.
05:37 That map is a bit inaccurate. The current line runs directly under Steinway Street from Northern Boulevard until about 100 meters SSW of Broadway which it turns sharply onto, entering it at 41st Street (i.e. 100 meters from the intersection). The Steinway Street stop runs along pretty much the whole block from 34th Avenue to Broadway.
4:49: rebuild 34th St so that the express tracks continue forward & the local tracks connect to the Trans-Hudson. B Sugar Hill - 2nd & Houston, D Norwood - South Brooklyn, F Jamaica express via 53rd St - Journal Sq, V Forest Hills local via 76th St - Hoboken.
I can see why they put the "M" (or "V" the QB local) via 53rd Street. They did it 1. Provide a one seat ride for QB local riders. 2. To keep passenger from bunching onto the QB Express. Crowding on the Queens Blvd Express only magnifying the overcrowding situation. So local passengers had to get off at the next express station, because non of the locals at the time was going directly to their destination. While express passengers had to endure an even more crowded ride. While local trains sat almost empty (especially the "G"). I saw it for myself! Not even many local passengers were getting on the "G" unless they needed the E/F. The "R" was more crowded even though you could get a seat in some of the cars. Switching the "M" via 63rd Street would be a cross between the "R" and former "G". It does not have anything. A connection to another line except it own eventually (6th Avenue, which the Express would already do). At least the "R" has the connection to the 4/5/6 at 59th and Lexington Avenue. It is one reason a lot of passengers from the #7 line favors the "N" at this point. It is such a favorable routing heading to Midtown Manhattan. It just that the E/F is more direct that makes it a better option for many more people.
Kinda want to know what your plan for the Queenslink corridor would be with everything going on in this video. I'm seeing the vision partially and think I'd want to play with it in a map draft myself, but I want to know what service on Queens Blvd does what in this version of things to then go down to Far Rockaway.
As for the Queenslink, the M would be the ones being sent down to the Rockaways. This is because it is the only logical option. Rerouting the R would make it lose its access to Jamaica Yard, and rerouting the G is not a good option as it doesn't provide a one seat ride into Manhattan. Also, I usually refrain from talking about which service to send down Queenslink because that is not what the discussion is about. The discussion is whether trains would ever run on the Rockaway Beach branch, and so far, a political connected, minoritarian group is having its terrible ideas implemented. I much rather spend my energy and time convincing Queensway supporters to switch to Queenslink because it helps to counter the Queensway narrative. Spending my time and energy talking about which train line to send down Queenslink will only divide us Queenslink supporters, and we need to remain unified on getting the city to choose Queenslink over Queensway. I will end on this note: in an conversation that we had with Vanshnookenraggen, the chief design officer of Queenslink. He said that he doesn't like talking about which train line to send down Queenslink because it makes people lose sight of what Queenslink is about: what does reactivating the Rockaway Beach branch do for Queens?
@@jointransitassociation oh I actually remember that conversation from the podcast episode a few weeks back. I only really asked it here to get a better idea of the kind of map you all were working towards. I agree that this is a lot more to do with just getting some building and longer term thinking happening but I was also trying to inform myself on things I hadn't considered before with my own designs. Thanks for another interesting back and forth and video!
@@jointransitassociationI think Queenslink is best if it tunnels under FHG, and links up directly to Forest Hills-71st Ave on the local tracks. It requires a deep-bore tunnel underneath the neighborhood, which sounds risky and expensive, but it isn’t if the city cleans up its construction cost issues (Queenslink with this alignment should be able to be done for $600M at globally average costs, which is achievable, but politically difficult), and its politics (dissolve and disempower community boards from existence, meaning no more hearings for 5 years before approval). It is the superior option because it doesn’t require a reverse-branch in the Rockaways, and Woodhaven Blvd doesn’t have to be converted into an express station. Forest Hills is sufficient for passengers offloading onto express trains. If running both services from the local tracks to the Rockaways is too much, some trains can pretty easily short-turn at Forest Hills without any adverse capacity issues. Of course this is designed to work with a fully de-interlined system.
@@daniel_teplitsky07 I don't think that is a good option. Part of the reason why Queenslink works very well is because of its location. The Rockaway Beach branch parallels the over congested Woodhaven Blvd for all of its route and for this option that you are proposing, what you will forgo half of the branch, which means forgoing about half of the projected ridership potential (unless you are proposing some insane reverse curve to connect to the RBB earlier, which is even more of a no go.) The ridership is between Woodhaven Blvd/Queens Blvd and Liberty Ave, not Forest Hills. This is probably the one of few places that reverse branching would work better because of the numerous factors working in its favor. Rerouting the M away from Forest Hills would increase the capacity of the local tracks by 33 percent and set up of the IND Rockaway Line encourages interlining (unless you want to add an additional two tracks to the Rockaway trestle, which would be expensive and doesn't justify the cost). The A has a strong presence on the Rockaways, and decent number of Rockaway residents are commuting into Downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn. Converting Woodhaven Blvd into an express station isn't some optional project and should only be done for Queenslink. It absolutely needs to be done like now. Part of the reason why I never use QBL unless I need to is because of how bad the transfer is at Roosevelt. Transferring at Roosevelt, is congested, slow, and is just all in all a terrible experience. But, if another station is express, that transfer becomes much better because not everyone needs to use Roosevelt. That station would be Woodhaven Blvd because it has a higher ridership than all local stations on the route, serves numerous feeder bus routes, and has provisions that would make it much easier to convert. I do agree that how we build our subways is fundamentally broken. Endless hearings, "feasibility studies", and NIMBYism is strangling the growth of the NYC Subway, or really anything that we do with the NYC Subway has to go through that process. That is why advocacy matters. We are currently working on the 7 Train Project and for Queenslink to ensure that these projects happen and both projects would love more help.
@@jointransitassociation There wouldn’t need to be an insane reverse curve, or a bypass missing half of the branch. North of Union Tpke, the line would dive into a tunnel, and curve onto a dogleg under Forest Hills Gardens, stopping at Metropolitan Ave/71st Ave. It would then meet the local tracks at Forest Hills-71st Ave. Each curve on the dogleg would have approximately a 1/10 mile radius, which is similar to most IND curves. Removing ALL reverse-branching is absolutely necessary, hence this proposal. In vanilla-Queenslink, any delay on the A on the Rockaway Line would affect local service on the Queens Blvd Line. It might not be as much of an impact with full-de-interlining everywhere else, but it’s still a huge impact for riders using Queens Blvd, and 6th Ave in Manhattan. This would allow A service towards Lefferts to be increased, and allow for a potential extension to Jamaica, although that isn’t as pressing as the Queenslink. This would also provide the Rockaways with more reliable service than vanilla-Queenslink makes possible, due to the lack of reverse-branching. About Woodhaven, while it is a destination for feeder buses, my personal opinion is that after de-interlining, a lot of riders would end up staying on the local trains, rather than switching to the express. Furthermore, with Queenslink going towards Forest Hills, the bus riders on Woodhaven who would switch over to the subway, would likely change trains at Forest Hills. So, this proposal also reduces the stress on Woodhaven as a rail-bus interchange, especially from bus lines coming from Southern Queens. I wish I had a visual I could show, but RUclips hates links in comment threads, and it will likely delete this.
I definitely see a purpose for a super express, because people living in the far reaches of Queens deserve this type of service. They shouldnt have to share their ride with Western Queens passengers. I don't know if the line could connect to LIRR up to Woodhaven Blvd and Jamaica Station. I really don't know exactly how this could be done. Whether it use the Great Neck branch. Or the Woodside connection. But something does need to be done.
I honestly thought this was referring to the 76 st stop. Edit: as for the proposal itself, this is kinda stupid. Considering the infrastructure is already in place, all you gotta do is rework the f and m routing so that the f uses the 53 st tunnel (and continues express on queens blvd) and the m uses the 63 st tunnel and merges onto the local track at 36 st. Edit 2: hell, if you wanna go further with deinterlining, have the g replace the r on queens blvd, have the r sent back to astoria (keep the w though just in case), and have the n run with the q to 96 st.
I don't which proposal you are referring to, but the proposal we have is done to eliminate reverse branching, which is a cornerstone of deinterlining. Even with the F and M swap, that doesn't mean QBL is 100 percent deinterlined. I further explained what that is at 16:24.
If you are talking about that video the MTA released on interlining, I did watch it. It did omit a few things, but it was a good explainer for someone new to the system. But my point still stands because the MTA did not present a compelling argument on why interlining is superior to deinterlining. PS: I want to know what I got wrong on this video. If you are going to make a claim, tell me where it is so that I can go fix it. That will benefit the viewers, not just me.
I do want the n and w trains to Bayside via northern blvd line but I pefer the t train to Bedford park blvd- Botanic Garden via Webster Avenue to help with Bx41 since it has a lot of congestion. Along with crosstown 125th Street.
Your T train proposal can literally be implemented with regional rail on Metro North. By expanding reverse peak services and building infill stations, you created the same rail line at a fraction of a subway line. Northern Blvd doesn't need to be built for the time being. What needs to be done is regional rail on Port Washington. By doubling Port Washington services (which can be done because of ESA) and building infill stations at Elmhurst and Corona, you successfully have a rail line that can decongest the 7.
There should be crosstown lines in Manhattan built on 18th Street, 23rd Street, 86th Street, 125th Street, 138th Street, 149th Street, 161st Street, & Dyckman Street. There should also be crosstown lines in The Bronx built on 138th Street, 149th Street, 161st Street, Cross Bronx Expressway, Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway, Burke Avenue, & 241st Street.
@@Railoffroader2The Dyckman Street Crosstown line should be a connection from the IND 9th Avenue Line to the new lower level of the Inwood-207th Street Station on Broadway. The only station on that connection should be Fort George Hill & have a connection to the & (1) built. The (X) should serve the connection. There should also be an , but should run onto the IND Fordham Road-Pelham Parkway Line & terminate at Pelham Bay Park.
This is insane de-interlining. I’m gonna remain neutral to the ideas. I just wonder though, if it’s THAT important. Does capacity NEED to be higher? Do riders WANT this complex service pattern? Is de-interlining and the new tunnel the BEST way forward? If yes to all these questions, good plan!
Capacity does need to be higher. And, no this is not complex. Express service is now served by IND 8th Ave express trains, local service is now served by IND 6th Ave local trains. That is much simpler than knowing that express service is both served by IND 6th and 8th Ave trains, and local service is both served by BMT Broadway and IND 6th Ave trains. Also, you won't have trains switching all over the place, which is what the current configuration is. This needs to be done to eliminate reverse branching. I explained what that is here: 16:24. You might need to add a few transfer points for this work, like an infill station on the IND 63rd St line at Northern Blvd (which is in the 1968 plan) for a transfer at Queens Plaza, but that is doable.
Also, all of these plans don't need to be implemented all at once. It can start with an F and M swap and seeing the response from riders. That is why I said that an F and M swap would need to come first before all of these changes follow.
My take is that it really doesn’t matter what opinion the riders hold, if we’re talking about something that objectively makes the system better. It’s impossible to disprove that frequency and reliability induce ridership, and that de-interlining is the best way to help that. My opinion is also that riders don’t have a clear preference for certain trunk lines, the only people who would fight against such changes are community boards, which should be dissolved and disempowered, because they help no one, and only represent a few powerful members of the community.
@@daniel_teplitsky07 So then 2 and 5 trains don’t need to share tracks in Brooklyn and Queens Boulevard Expresses can go express all the way to Jamaica 179th and Van Wyck as this seems more helpful than what we have now
@@transitcaptain Everything that could be de-interlined should be de-interlined. And additional works required to de-interline the remaining segments (Rogers and 149th) should happen.
The R will get sent to Coney Island via West End giving it a yard. The R will run local on 4th Ave while the B and D will run express on 4th Ave. After 36th St, the B will get diverted onto the local tracks and run to 95th St, and the D will stay express and run to Coney Island via Sea Beach.
I never realized how important deinterlining is for the subway until I watched your videos.
I use to live in Astoria, Queens, NYC. With population growth that neighborhood has alone and how many people live in Manhattan, the 76 St. tunnel would be really be needed to make traveling flexibility a need, especially traveling along Broadway from Steinway St. to the East River. Business, visitors, and residential neighborhoods along Broadway is growing a lot.
i frequently take the 104 from Vernon Bl to 34th St or Steinway St, the 76th St Tunnel would help a LOT.
Q104 bus line needs more bus frequency, especially beneficial to residents from Vernon Blvd. who want to transfer to 7 train without having to transfer an additional time to either the N, R, M, and W trains. Also, Regal Cinemas on 35 Ave. & 38 St. is the closest movie house to Vernon Blvd. that can display movies produced in Hollywood at desired times.
@@johnmoore7926 yea regal is mad ez to get to tbh u can just take the 10 min walk to 35th and catch the 66 right there
@@843Reboot True, but sucks The Q66 turns at 21 St. instead of going all the way to Vernon Blvd.
@@johnmoore7926 yeah its not really that bad of a walk from vernon to 21st
LOVE how you zoom over speculation and lines you created w/o backing up evidence.
Like what?
I agree with the F and M swap. The F can serve 63rd st overnight.
VERY INFORMATIVE. THANKS FOR THE INFO ON THE MTA'S SYSTEM, THEN & NOW!!!
i get that capacity is important but i feel like getting rid of the connection from the express to the local at queens plaza creates a huge headache for riders on 6th ave trying to get to deep queens and riders on 8th ave hoping to get to parts of astoria and woodside. i guess the real problem is how 63rd wasn’t built with a connection to queens plaza which would’ve solved everything imo, but as it is I’d rather it be interlined
What I forgot to mention was creating an infill station at Northern Blvd on the IND 63rd St line, so that F and M customers could transfer to E and K trains and vice versa. That station was part of the Program for Action, but got cut.
Capacity is important, more important than one seat rides. When Queens is seeing rapid growth, every train on QBL and the 7 counts. Of course, we need a new rail tunnel, but we should build that tunnel to facilitate deinterlining, not enhance/build off of it. That would be a waste of resources.
NYC really needs more tunnels between New Jersey and Manhattan. A lot of these new services can run crosstown across Manhattan and continue to New Jersey, with no interlining at all.
If Chris Christie hadn't been so parochial and short-sighted by cancelling the Access to the Region's Core project in 2010, two new tunnels between Manhattan and New Jersey would be almost, if not entirely, completed by now.
Well we can start with a 7 train extension into New Jersey to better serve Hudson County and ease congestion on the Lincoln Tunnel.
Also don’t stop there. Extend the L train via 10th Avenue to 72nd Street first, and then via 79th Street and across the Hudson River to New Jersey, serving Bergen County and the Meadowlands.
@@TheRailLeaguer Isn't there a proposal to extend either the 7 or the canarsie line to Seacacus Junction? That would be an excellent project honestly.
@@empirestate8791There have been some official proposals to extend the 7 train (Flushing Line) to Secaucus, as the tracks end at 26th Street. However, nothing has come from that yet. It should still be pursued though.
@@TheRailLeaguerThe L is better off going towards Secaucus, meeting the 7 extension in a quad-track tunnel under the Hudson. The 7 would veer off under Washington Street. The PATH should be cut up, with the 7 taking the tunnels from just south of Hoboken, to just north of Grove Street, where the tunnel would extend south through Jersey City, linking with the HBLR at Liberty State Park, taking over both southern branches, becoming grade-separated in the process. HBLR would be truncated to the section to operate north of Liberty State Park. The 6 would take over the entirety of the WTC-Newark Line, fully de-interlining the PATH.
That deinterling plan is so crazy that it could work.
I mean, that deinterlining plan is straight out of Vanshnookenraggen's and Uday Schultz's plan. But, you don't really need to do this all at once, you can start with low level service swaps. F/M and B/N swaps would be a good start. Then, judging on rider feedback, you would continue.
This seems like a better version of the 63rd Street tunnel that we actually got: more coverage, intercepts Astoria and Lexington lines and effectively forces F/M swap.
After watching this video, I’ve decided to scrap my current Queensboro connector proposal for this new one:
My new proposal would have the E and F run along 53rd Street and QBL express while the R runs along 63rd and QBL local, and the N and W handle 59th and Astoria.
When enough funds are available to build the Second Avenue Subway with 4 tracks as originally intended, then we can introduce the U, and reimagine the V. The T and U can run express while the V runs local. The V can run with the R along 63rd Street and QBL local to Forest Hills and the G can run along a new extension along Northern Boulevard.
For the K, we will have it run 8th Avenue Local, replacing the C. The K will start off at World Trade Center with the E, and then branch off from 42nd Street-PABT to run along 50th Street, and then meet up with the G, and the 2 lines run along on Northern Boulevard.
To ease the congestion at 36th Street, Queens Plaza and , I propose converting 36th Street into an express station, as well as build a lower level for G and K trains. Since the G and K will replace the M and R at Queens Plaza, the local tracks between 36th Street and Queens Plaza will be abandoned as they will be replaced by tracks connecting to the new extension along Northern Boulevard.
As for the M, it’ll run local with the Q along the northern part of Second Avenue while the T and U continue running express. The Q, T and U will continue running north into the Bronx, with the Q and T running along either 3rd Avenue or Webster Avenue while the M runs along 125th Street towards Broadway, and the U runs along Southern Boulevard.
I know my revised plan for Queens and the Bronx may still cause delays at Lexington Avenue-63rd Street, seeing as how R trains have to switch tracks, but I really don’t want to take the R off of Queens Boulevard. And that brings me to the next part of my proposal, which is focused around Brooklyn.
The R and W will terminate at City Hall while the E and K replace it, taking over the lower part of the BMT Broadway line and the Montague Street Tube, and later 4th Avenue local, while the B and D run express. A connection is built between Cortlandt Street and Canal Street, while the current E terminal platform at World Trade Center is closed off and converted into a passageway.
If the R and W were to be extended back into Brooklyn, we can extend them via a brand new tunnel under the East River, and have them run local on the IND Fulton Street line to Euclid Avenue, while the A and C run express, with the C replacing the A to Lefferts Boulevard.
As for the BMT 4th Avenue line, I propose that after 36th Street, the B and D run along West End while the E and K continue along 4th Avenue, with the E skipping 45th and 53rd Street while the K stops at those stations. After 59th Street, the K will run to Bay Ridge-95th Street while the E runs along the Sea Beach line. The B will terminate at Bay Parkway and the D and E will terminate at Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue.
The N and Q will handle Brighton, with the Q running express and the N running local. The Q will terminate at Brighton Beach while the N continues on to Coney Island.
The J will also be extended along the new tunnel under the East River into Brooklyn, but they will meet up with the F and G at Bergen Street (Lower level is reactivated). The F will run express while the G and J run local, to Church Avenue. The Z will be eliminated as a result.
A station will be built at Atlantic Avenue-Court Street, so that passengers can transfer between the J, R and W.
With service in the lower part of Brooklyn reimagined and completely de-interlined, let’s finish it up with the T and U terminating at Hanover Square and the V will merge with the F at Second Avenue, running express along Culver with the F and continuing down towards Kings Highway, where it will terminate, while the F continues on to Coney Island.
Finally, we have a reimagining of CPW. I would continue having the B and C run local and the A and D running express, or have the A and B run express while the C and D run local, but to keep things consistent with the de-interlining, I’m gonna say we have the A and C run CPW local while the B and D run express. The B will replace the A from 168th Street and Inwood-207th Street, and the C will continue terminating at 168th Street, while the A will run with the D to the Bronx, up to Bedford Park Boulevard, while the D terminates at Norwood-205th Street.
With this plan, the R can continue using Jamaica Yard and share R160’s with the E, F, and the reimagined V train. A new yard can be constructed to store G and K trains at Bayside, where the Northern Boulevard line will terminate (both the G and K will use R211’s). The W can share R179’s and R211’s with the A, and the B, N and Q can continue using Coney Island Yard to share R68/A’s and R211’s.
These are my preferences for the BMT & IND:
Spuyten Duyvil-236th Street to the Hamilton Beach via Riverdale local, Saint Nicholas Avenue express, Central Park West express, 8th Avenue express, Fulton Street express, Liberty Avenue express, & Rockaway local.
(A) Getty Square-Prospect Street to the Far Rockaway Loop via Riverdale express, Saint Nicholas Avenue express, Central Park West express, 8th Avenue express, Fulton Street express, Liberty Avenue express, & Rockaway local.
Inwood-215th Street to Freeport-Mill Road via Saint Nicholas Avenue local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, Fulton Street local, Liberty Avenue local, & Merrick express.
(C) Inwood-215th Street to Ozone Park-Lefferts Boulevard via Saint Nicholas Avenue local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, Fulton Street local, & Liberty Avenue local.
South Hempstead-Southern State Parkway to Bayonne Bridge via Peninsula Boulevard local, Merrick local, Archer Avenue local, Queens Boulevard express, 53rd Street local, 8th Avenue local, Washington Street local, Union Street local, Brighton local, Fort Hamilton Parkway local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island Expressway local, Clove Road local, Richmond Terrace local, & Dr MLK JR Expressway local.
(E) Roy Wilkins Park-Foch Boulevard to Bard Avenue via Peninsula Boulevard local, Merrick local, Archer Avenue local, Queens Boulevard express, 53rd Street local, 8th Avenue local, Washington Street local, Union Street local, Brighton local, Fort Hamilton Parkway local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island Expressway local, & Clove Road local.
Co-Op City to Clearview-Willets Point Boulevard via Co-Op City, Burke Avenue, Concourse local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, Fulton Street local, Liberty Avenue local, 168th Street, Union Turnpike, & Utopia Parkway.
(K) Fordham Road to Euclid Avenue via Concourse local, Central Park West local, 8th Avenue local, & Fulton Street local.
Throgs Neck-Schurz Avenue to Tottenvile-Hylan Boulevard via Tremont Avenue, Bruckner Boulevard, Burke Avenue, Concourse local, Central Park West local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, Manhattan Bridge, Brighton express, Coney Island local, West End express, 86th Street local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island expressway local, Clove Road local, Richmond Terrace local, West Shore Expressway local, Amboy Road local, & Chelsea Street local.
(B) Bedford Park Boulevard to Brighton Beach via Concourse local, Central Park West local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, Manhattan Bridge, & Brighton express.
Bay Terrace-Cross Island Parkway to Bensonhurst-Bay Parkway via Throgs Neck Bridge, Bruckner Boulevard local, Burke Avenue, Concourse local, Central Park West express, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, 4th Avenue Express, & West End local.
(D) Norwood-205th Street to 9th Avenue via Concourse local, Central Park West express, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue express, Chrystie Street local, 4th Avenue Express, & West End local.
New Hyde Park-Lakeville Road to Coney Island-Stilwell Avenue via Hillside Avenue express, Queens Boulevard express, 63rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, Culver express, & Coney Island local.
(F) Jamaica-179th Street to Ditmas Avenue via Hillside Avenue local, Queens Boulevard express, 63rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, & Culver express.
JFK Airport-TWA Hotel to Stuyvesant Heights-Bainbridge Street via Van Wyck Expressway local, Queens Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, & Malcolm X Boulevard local.
(V) Atlantic Avenue to 2nd Avenue via Van Wyck Expressway local, Queens Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, & 6th Avenue local.
Forest Hills-71st Avenue to Coney Island-Surf Avenue via Queens Boulevard local, Crosstown local, Culver local, & Ocean Parkway local.
(G) Court Square to Church Avenue via Crosstown local, Culver local, & Ocean Parkway local.
Upper West Side-Broadway to Prince’s Bay-Hylan Boulevard via 86th Street (Manhattan) local, Roosevelt Island local, Crosstown local, Culver local, Coney Island local, West End express, 86th Street (Brooklyn) local, Staten Island Expressway express, Clove Road express, Richmond Terrace express, West Shore Expressway express, & Prince’s Bay local.
(H) Upper West Side-Broadway to Neptune Avenue via 86th Street (Manhattan) local, Roosevelt Island local, Crosstown local, & Culver local.
Colonial Heights-Verona Avenue to Coney Island-West 24th Street via Central Park Avenue local, Bronx River Parkway express, Webster Avenue express, Randall’s Island, 21st Street local, Crosstown express, Culver express, Ocean Parkway express, & Surf Avenue local.
(U) Brooke Avenue to Coney Island-West 24th Street via Central Park Avenue local, Bronx River Parkway express, Webster Avenue express, Randall’s Island, 21st Street local, Crosstown express, Culver express, Ocean Parkway express, & Surf Avenue local.
Inwood-Cypress Road to Battery Park via Sheridan Boulevard local, Rockaway express, Rockaway Beach Branch local, Queens Boulevard super-express, Broadway (Queens) local, 86th Street (Manhattan) local, & 2nd Avenue local.
(I) Forest Park-Myrtle Avenue to Battery Park via Rockaway Beach Branch local, Queens Boulevard super-express, Broadway (Queens) local, 86th Street (Manhattan) local, & 2nd Avenue local.
Manhattanville-Saint Clair Place to Bloomfield-Edward Curry Avenue via 125th Street local, 2nd Avenue local, & North Shore Subway semi-express.
(T) Manhattanville-Saint Clair Place to Saint Joseph’s Avenue via 125th Street local, 2nd Avenue local, & North Shore Subway local.
Crotona Park-Wilkins Avenue to Island Park-Austin Boulevard via Claremont Parkway local, Concourse local, 2nd Avenue express, Nassau Street local, Brooklyn Bridge, Fulton Street Elevated local, Canarsie local, Liberty Avenue Elevated local, Merrick local, Lincoln Avenue local, & Long Beach Road local.
(Y) 149th Street-Grand Concourse to Springfield Boulevard via Concourse local, 2nd Avenue express, Nassau Street local, Brooklyn Bridge, Fulton Street Elevated local, Canarsie local, Liberty Avenue Elevated local, & Merrick local.
West Hempstead-Sycamore Street to Bull’s Head-Victory Boulevard via Hempstead Turnpike local, Jamaica local, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, North Shore Subway semi-express, & Dr MLK JR Expressway local.
(J) 168th Street to Oakland Avenue via Jamaica local, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, & North Shore Subway local.
Bronx Park to Dyker Beach Park-86th Street via White Plains Road Subway local, College Point Boulevard local, Northern Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica local, Lexington Avenue (Brooklyn) local, Myrtle Avenue local, Manhattan Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street local, 7th Avenue local, Sea Beach local, & 12th Avenue local.
(M) College Point-5th Avenue to Fort Hamilton Parkway via College Point Boulevard local, Northern Boulevard local, 53rd Street local, 6th Avenue local, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica local, Lexington Avenue (Brooklyn) local, Myrtle Avenue local, Manhattan Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street local, 7th Avenue local, & Sea Beach local.
Pelham Bay Park to Lawrence via Fordham Road-Pelham Parkway local, 9th Avenue express, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica express, & Rockaway Boulevard express.
() Inwood-207th Street to 133rd Avenue via Inwood local, Dyckman Street local, 9th Avenue local, Williamsburg Bridge, Jamaica express, & Rockaway Boulevard local.
Bayside-Northern Boulevard to Clove Lake Park via Springfield Boulevard local, Hillside Avenue local, Archer Avenue local, Jamaica express, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, & Forest Avenue express.
(Z) Jamaica Center to Tompkinsville-Victory Boulevard via Archer Avenue local, Jamaica express, Williamsburg Bridge, Nassau Street local, Bergen Street express, 7th Avenue (Brooklyn) express, Bay Ridge Avenue local, & Forest Avenue local.
Harlem-135th Street to Canarsie Pier via Madison Avenue local, 86th Street local, West End Avenue local, 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street local, & Canarsie local.
(L) 34th Street-Hudson Yards to Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway via 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street local, & Canarsie local.
Harlem-125th Street to Tottenville-Bentley Street via 1st Avenue local, 86th Street local, West End Avenue local, 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street express, Canarsie express, Interborough local, North Shore Subway express, West Shore Expressway express, & Amboy Road express.
(S) 18th Street to Brooklyn Army Terminal via 10th Avenue (Manhattan) local, 14th Street express, Canarsie express, & Interborough local.
Fordham Plaza to Manhattan Beach-MacKenzie Street via 3rd Avenue Elevated local, Saint Ann’s Avenue Elevated local, RFK Bridge local, 21st Street local, 21st Avenue local, Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue express, Sea Beach local, & Coney Island local.
(N) Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard to 18th Avenue via Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Manhattan Bridge, 4th Avenue express, & Sea Beach local.
Crocheron Park-217th Street to Seagate-West 36th Street via 35th Avenue local, Crocheron Avenue local, Flushing local, Astoria Boulevard local, 82nd Street local, 21st Avenue local, Astoria express, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) express, Manhattan Bridge, Brighton local, Coney Island local, & Surf Avenue local.
(Q) Ditmars Boulevard-111th Street to Newkirk Plaza via Astoria Boulevard local, 82nd Street local, 21st Avenue local, Astoria express, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) express, Manhattan Bridge, & Brighton local.
Bay Terrace-Little Bay Park to Graniteville-Richmond Avenue via 200th Street local, Malba local, College Point Boulevard local, Northern Boulevard express, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, 4th Avenue local, Bay Street local, Front Street local, Victory Boulevard local, & Watchogue Road local.
(R) Willets Point-World’s Fair Marina to Bay Ridge-Marine Avenue via Northern Boulevard express, 60th Street (Manhattan) local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, & 4th Avenue local.
Starlight Park-174th Street to Travis-Wild Avenue via Sheridan Expressway local, West Farms Road local, Southern Boulevard local, Manida Street local, East Bay Bridge, Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, 4th Avenue local, West End local, 15th Avenue local, 86th Street local, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Staten Island Expressway local, Clove Road local, & Victory Boulevard local.
(W) Rikers Island to Dyker Heights-10th Avenue via East Bay Bridge, Astoria local, 60th Street local, Broadway (Manhattan) local, Montague Street local, 4th Avenue local, West End local, 15th Avenue local, & 86th Street local.
Riverdale Park to New Dorp Beach via Concourse West express, Concourse express, 3rd Avenue Subway express, North Shore Subway local, Seaview Avenue express, & Lower Bay Shores express.
(O) Spuyten Duyvil to Midland Beach via Concourse West local, Concourse express, 3rd Avenue Subway express, North Shore Subway local, Seaview Avenue local, & Lower Bay Shores local.
Colonial Heights-Alta Vista Drive to South Ferry via Scarsdale Road local, Bronx River Parkway local, Webster Avenue local, & 3rd Avenue Elevated local.
(P) Palmer Road to South Ferry via Bronx River Parkway local, Webster Avenue local, & 3rd Avenue Elevated local.
At least 76th Street tunnel served a slightly different location. But the downside that it would serve as local. Not unless they tunnel underneath Steinway Street and eventually connect it to the current Queens Blvd Express tunnel. Turning what was a fast stretch for the QBE would become much slower for at least one of these lines (or both considering that these lines usually run closer together to meet demand, which kind of defeats the purpose).
If they just create a service that runs along Northern Blvd meeting this connection at Steinway Street, than it can offset some passengers from the QB cooridor. And than provide a station connection Woodhaven and Junction Blvd into the Rockaways.
You know Queens really does need more trunk lines running through it. Not just another connection into crowded Queens Blvd cooridor.
Actually, the 76th Street Tunnel can serve either the local or express. The reason why only the express heads to the Rockaways and Lefferts is because it cannot merge with the local without delays.
Now, this is only if you do not want any 8th Avenue service in the Rockaways (meaning that one of the 8th Avenue service only serves Lefferts): The 76th Street tunnel to Cambria Heights can be done with a simpler two-track design, and we can give the express trains the ability to run the new tunnel, while the local trains head up to Lefferts. The reason I go with this is that Lefferts is likely capped way below the capacity of the express, which would be 24TPH, and it is elevated. Meanwhile, the new tunnel can have a terminal that can either withstand 24TPH, or 36TPH if future-proofed for the SAS to take the local (this would have the former Fulton Local serve express to Lefferts). Granted, it ain't the best, but it is something to think about.
@@shadowmamba95 I'm Assuming Lefferts Blvd/Liberty Avenue would eliminated as a routing if the subway extension via Linden Blvd ever gets built out. And connecting Queens Blvd to the Rockaway would at least have to happen first.
I'm also assuming that all local services would end at Euclid as it does today. This is similar to Church Avenue "G" and Continental Ave "M" and "R".
No one would want to have a local when they have an express option currently.
05:37 That map is a bit inaccurate. The current line runs directly under Steinway Street from Northern Boulevard until about 100 meters SSW of Broadway which it turns sharply onto, entering it at 41st Street (i.e. 100 meters from the intersection). The Steinway Street stop runs along pretty much the whole block from 34th Avenue to Broadway.
4:49: rebuild 34th St so that the express tracks continue forward & the local tracks connect to the Trans-Hudson. B Sugar Hill - 2nd & Houston, D Norwood - South Brooklyn, F Jamaica express via 53rd St - Journal Sq, V Forest Hills local via 76th St - Hoboken.
sir the express tracks already continue past 34th Street they dip down under the Path tracks to west 4 street
@@EndIessProductions : This is before the Chrystie Street Connection was built.
I can see why they put the "M" (or "V" the QB local) via 53rd Street. They did it 1. Provide a one seat ride for QB local riders. 2. To keep passenger from bunching onto the QB Express.
Crowding on the Queens Blvd Express only magnifying the overcrowding situation.
So local passengers had to get off at the next express station, because non of the locals at the time was going directly to their destination.
While express passengers had to endure an even more crowded ride. While local trains sat almost empty (especially the "G").
I saw it for myself! Not even many local passengers were getting on the "G" unless they needed the E/F. The "R" was more crowded even though you could get a seat in some of the cars.
Switching the "M" via 63rd Street would be a cross between the "R" and former "G". It does not have anything. A connection to another line except it own eventually (6th Avenue, which the Express would already do). At least the "R" has the connection to the 4/5/6 at 59th and Lexington Avenue.
It is one reason a lot of passengers from the #7 line favors the "N" at this point. It is such a favorable routing heading to Midtown Manhattan. It just that the E/F is more direct that makes it a better option for many more people.
Kinda want to know what your plan for the Queenslink corridor would be with everything going on in this video. I'm seeing the vision partially and think I'd want to play with it in a map draft myself, but I want to know what service on Queens Blvd does what in this version of things to then go down to Far Rockaway.
As for the Queenslink, the M would be the ones being sent down to the Rockaways. This is because it is the only logical option. Rerouting the R would make it lose its access to Jamaica Yard, and rerouting the G is not a good option as it doesn't provide a one seat ride into Manhattan.
Also, I usually refrain from talking about which service to send down Queenslink because that is not what the discussion is about. The discussion is whether trains would ever run on the Rockaway Beach branch, and so far, a political connected, minoritarian group is having its terrible ideas implemented. I much rather spend my energy and time convincing Queensway supporters to switch to Queenslink because it helps to counter the Queensway narrative. Spending my time and energy talking about which train line to send down Queenslink will only divide us Queenslink supporters, and we need to remain unified on getting the city to choose Queenslink over Queensway.
I will end on this note: in an conversation that we had with Vanshnookenraggen, the chief design officer of Queenslink. He said that he doesn't like talking about which train line to send down Queenslink because it makes people lose sight of what Queenslink is about: what does reactivating the Rockaway Beach branch do for Queens?
@@jointransitassociation oh I actually remember that conversation from the podcast episode a few weeks back. I only really asked it here to get a better idea of the kind of map you all were working towards. I agree that this is a lot more to do with just getting some building and longer term thinking happening but I was also trying to inform myself on things I hadn't considered before with my own designs.
Thanks for another interesting back and forth and video!
@@jointransitassociationI think Queenslink is best if it tunnels under FHG, and links up directly to Forest Hills-71st Ave on the local tracks. It requires a deep-bore tunnel underneath the neighborhood, which sounds risky and expensive, but it isn’t if the city cleans up its construction cost issues (Queenslink with this alignment should be able to be done for $600M at globally average costs, which is achievable, but politically difficult), and its politics (dissolve and disempower community boards from existence, meaning no more hearings for 5 years before approval). It is the superior option because it doesn’t require a reverse-branch in the Rockaways, and Woodhaven Blvd doesn’t have to be converted into an express station. Forest Hills is sufficient for passengers offloading onto express trains. If running both services from the local tracks to the Rockaways is too much, some trains can pretty easily short-turn at Forest Hills without any adverse capacity issues. Of course this is designed to work with a fully de-interlined system.
@@daniel_teplitsky07
I don't think that is a good option. Part of the reason why Queenslink works very well is because of its location. The Rockaway Beach branch parallels the over congested Woodhaven Blvd for all of its route and for this option that you are proposing, what you will forgo half of the branch, which means forgoing about half of the projected ridership potential (unless you are proposing some insane reverse curve to connect to the RBB earlier, which is even more of a no go.) The ridership is between Woodhaven Blvd/Queens Blvd and Liberty Ave, not Forest Hills.
This is probably the one of few places that reverse branching would work better because of the numerous factors working in its favor. Rerouting the M away from Forest Hills would increase the capacity of the local tracks by 33 percent and set up of the IND Rockaway Line encourages interlining (unless you want to add an additional two tracks to the Rockaway trestle, which would be expensive and doesn't justify the cost). The A has a strong presence on the Rockaways, and decent number of Rockaway residents are commuting into Downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn.
Converting Woodhaven Blvd into an express station isn't some optional project and should only be done for Queenslink. It absolutely needs to be done like now. Part of the reason why I never use QBL unless I need to is because of how bad the transfer is at Roosevelt. Transferring at Roosevelt, is congested, slow, and is just all in all a terrible experience. But, if another station is express, that transfer becomes much better because not everyone needs to use Roosevelt. That station would be Woodhaven Blvd because it has a higher ridership than all local stations on the route, serves numerous feeder bus routes, and has provisions that would make it much easier to convert.
I do agree that how we build our subways is fundamentally broken. Endless hearings, "feasibility studies", and NIMBYism is strangling the growth of the NYC Subway, or really anything that we do with the NYC Subway has to go through that process. That is why advocacy matters. We are currently working on the 7 Train Project and for Queenslink to ensure that these projects happen and both projects would love more help.
@@jointransitassociation There wouldn’t need to be an insane reverse curve, or a bypass missing half of the branch. North of Union Tpke, the line would dive into a tunnel, and curve onto a dogleg under Forest Hills Gardens, stopping at Metropolitan Ave/71st Ave. It would then meet the local tracks at Forest Hills-71st Ave. Each curve on the dogleg would have approximately a 1/10 mile radius, which is similar to most IND curves. Removing ALL reverse-branching is absolutely necessary, hence this proposal. In vanilla-Queenslink, any delay on the A on the Rockaway Line would affect local service on the Queens Blvd Line. It might not be as much of an impact with full-de-interlining everywhere else, but it’s still a huge impact for riders using Queens Blvd, and 6th Ave in Manhattan. This would allow A service towards Lefferts to be increased, and allow for a potential extension to Jamaica, although that isn’t as pressing as the Queenslink. This would also provide the Rockaways with more reliable service than vanilla-Queenslink makes possible, due to the lack of reverse-branching.
About Woodhaven, while it is a destination for feeder buses, my personal opinion is that after de-interlining, a lot of riders would end up staying on the local trains, rather than switching to the express. Furthermore, with Queenslink going towards Forest Hills, the bus riders on Woodhaven who would switch over to the subway, would likely change trains at Forest Hills. So, this proposal also reduces the stress on Woodhaven as a rail-bus interchange, especially from bus lines coming from Southern Queens.
I wish I had a visual I could show, but RUclips hates links in comment threads, and it will likely delete this.
I definitely see a purpose for a super express, because people living in the far reaches of Queens deserve this type of service. They shouldnt have to share their ride with Western Queens passengers.
I don't know if the line could connect to LIRR up to Woodhaven Blvd and Jamaica Station. I really don't know exactly how this could be done. Whether it use the Great Neck branch. Or the Woodside connection. But something does need to be done.
That exists already it’s called LIRR
My fav part is how it gets rid of the c so we can add more J trains when a tunnel is added to the William bridge for m trains
Which will make more tph
"The first train that goes local" -SSB
I guess 76 if it be a station or tunnel it will always be thrown around
I honestly thought this was referring to the 76 st stop.
Edit: as for the proposal itself, this is kinda stupid. Considering the infrastructure is already in place, all you gotta do is rework the f and m routing so that the f uses the 53 st tunnel (and continues express on queens blvd) and the m uses the 63 st tunnel and merges onto the local track at 36 st.
Edit 2: hell, if you wanna go further with deinterlining, have the g replace the r on queens blvd, have the r sent back to astoria (keep the w though just in case), and have the n run with the q to 96 st.
I don't which proposal you are referring to, but the proposal we have is done to eliminate reverse branching, which is a cornerstone of deinterlining. Even with the F and M swap, that doesn't mean QBL is 100 percent deinterlined. I further explained what that is at 16:24.
@@jointransitassociationthe original 76 st tunnel proposal
@@apexhunter935 ok then
I'm guessing you didn't read the MTA report on " the need for interling"..
Where is it?
If you are talking about that video the MTA released on interlining, I did watch it. It did omit a few things, but it was a good explainer for someone new to the system. But my point still stands because the MTA did not present a compelling argument on why interlining is superior to deinterlining.
PS: I want to know what I got wrong on this video. If you are going to make a claim, tell me where it is so that I can go fix it. That will benefit the viewers, not just me.
I do want the n and w trains to Bayside via northern blvd line but I pefer the t train to Bedford park blvd- Botanic Garden via Webster Avenue to help with Bx41 since it has a lot of congestion. Along with crosstown 125th Street.
Your T train proposal can literally be implemented with regional rail on Metro North. By expanding reverse peak services and building infill stations, you created the same rail line at a fraction of a subway line.
Northern Blvd doesn't need to be built for the time being. What needs to be done is regional rail on Port Washington. By doubling Port Washington services (which can be done because of ESA) and building infill stations at Elmhurst and Corona, you successfully have a rail line that can decongest the 7.
@@jointransitassociation Hey Tech Transit association
There should be crosstown lines in Manhattan built on 18th Street, 23rd Street, 86th Street, 125th Street, 138th Street, 149th Street, 161st Street, & Dyckman Street. There should also be crosstown lines in The Bronx built on 138th Street, 149th Street, 161st Street, Cross Bronx Expressway, Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway, Burke Avenue, & 241st Street.
Dyckman St isn’t all that long to warrant actually building a line across it as there already exist 2 lines near each end.
@@Railoffroader2The Dyckman Street Crosstown line should be a connection from the IND 9th Avenue Line to the new lower level of the Inwood-207th Street Station on Broadway. The only station on that connection should be Fort George Hill & have a connection to the & (1) built. The (X) should serve the connection. There should also be an , but should run onto the IND Fordham Road-Pelham Parkway Line & terminate at Pelham Bay Park.
@@bennythepenny5831
😂😂😂👍🏻
This is insane de-interlining. I’m gonna remain neutral to the ideas. I just wonder though, if it’s THAT important. Does capacity NEED to be higher? Do riders WANT this complex service pattern? Is de-interlining and the new tunnel the BEST way forward? If yes to all these questions, good plan!
Capacity does need to be higher. And, no this is not complex. Express service is now served by IND 8th Ave express trains, local service is now served by IND 6th Ave local trains. That is much simpler than knowing that express service is both served by IND 6th and 8th Ave trains, and local service is both served by BMT Broadway and IND 6th Ave trains. Also, you won't have trains switching all over the place, which is what the current configuration is.
This needs to be done to eliminate reverse branching. I explained what that is here: 16:24.
You might need to add a few transfer points for this work, like an infill station on the IND 63rd St line at Northern Blvd (which is in the 1968 plan) for a transfer at Queens Plaza, but that is doable.
Also, all of these plans don't need to be implemented all at once. It can start with an F and M swap and seeing the response from riders. That is why I said that an F and M swap would need to come first before all of these changes follow.
My take is that it really doesn’t matter what opinion the riders hold, if we’re talking about something that objectively makes the system better. It’s impossible to disprove that frequency and reliability induce ridership, and that de-interlining is the best way to help that. My opinion is also that riders don’t have a clear preference for certain trunk lines, the only people who would fight against such changes are community boards, which should be dissolved and disempowered, because they help no one, and only represent a few powerful members of the community.
@@daniel_teplitsky07 So then 2 and 5 trains don’t need to share tracks in Brooklyn and Queens Boulevard Expresses can go express all the way to Jamaica 179th and Van Wyck as this seems more helpful than what we have now
@@transitcaptain Everything that could be de-interlined should be de-interlined. And additional works required to de-interline the remaining segments (Rogers and 149th) should happen.
They need to extend the 6 train to Co-op City. It will help all the commuters that take a bus to & from there.
17:15 bUT ThE R wOnT HAvE yArD aCcEsS iN AStoRiA comments incoming
The R will get sent to Coney Island via West End giving it a yard. The R will run local on 4th Ave while the B and D will run express on 4th Ave. After 36th St, the B will get diverted onto the local tracks and run to 95th St, and the D will stay express and run to Coney Island via Sea Beach.
@@jointransitassociation 👍🏿
Gezz.. You got EVERYTHING wrong!
Like what?
Forest Hills 71 can get a lower level